Author Topic: PC builders -- a little help?  (Read 6672 times)

Eric

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PC builders -- a little help?
« on: June 12, 2015, 04:59:22 PM »
I built my own rig about 6 years ago and it's still pretty sturdy.  I have the Intel Core I-5, which is still in new builds today, I have 16mb of RAM, so I'm good there, plenty of hard drive space, 650w PSU, but my graphics card is really starting to lag behind.  I'm currently running this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5642516&CatId=3585

I'm thinking about upgrading to this, but I've been out of the game for a little while (and I'm not sure I was ever "in" to begin with), so I'm not sure if it's compatable with my system.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202099

My motherboard is this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5083732&CatId=4720

I've spent an hour looking at this and I think it will work, but I definitely want to make sure before I drop $160.  The current video card says the interface is a PCI Express 2.0, so I'm guessing that the new one as a PCI Express 3.0 would fit right in place of it.  Is this a correct assumption?

Cole

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 05:30:03 PM »
I'm still running my old 6870 but this might help you out:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-3.html

Daley

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 05:49:39 PM »
It should be fine from a compatibility standpoint, as PCIe 3.0 cards are backwards compatible with PCIe 2.0 slots. My only concern is the power supply. The new card you linked draws 200W versus your old card's 64W, with a minimum recommended PSU of 500W from Sapphire. Though you have a 650W PSU, it sounds like it's a six year old 650W PSU. Electrolytic capacitor aging is a factor and a concern, and figure about a 10% capacity drop-off for every heavy year of use. Under peak load, napkin mathing things without full specs, I'm ballparking that you might hit the limit currently under peak load (it's also going to consume far more power to run). You might be fine, but you might not. All you can do is try, and if you're stable, you're fine. If you aren't now or sometime down the road, it'll probably be the PSU.

You're also going to need to make sure you have enough spare six pin power leads coming off the PSU to power it as well (you'll need two - the old one required none).

All I can recommend is a less power-hungry GPU. What GPU? I can't say given I don't know what you're playing to require the upgrade, and I stopped caring about keeping up with gaming GPUs around four years ago; but I'd recommend splitting performance over power efficiency on the upgrade, and try to keep it under 100W if possible. Also be mindful that apparent slowing graphics performance on the same games (if that's what you mean by lagging behind) might be issues anywhere from Windows OS bitrot (which a reinstall can fix) to hardware problems with the mobo or the video card as well, and you've got parts from companies known for using cheap electrolytic capacitors that're getting old. It might be worth doing some regular visual inspections, especially before upgrading. Otherwise, if it's working fine and performing well with what you're doing, who cares how old it is? Use it up, wear it out.

Have some tools:
http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine
http://www.gpuzoo.com/
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 05:59:53 PM by I.P. Daley »

Eric

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 06:22:57 PM »
Though you have a 650W PSU, it sounds like it's a six year old 650W PSU. Electrolytic capacitor aging is a factor and a concern, and figure about a 10% capacity drop-off for every heavy year of use.

I had no idea that was a thing.  You are correct that the PSU is 6 years old. 

You're also going to need to make sure you have enough spare six pin power leads coming off the PSU to power it as well (you'll need two - the old one required none).

Pretty sure I have a bunch of unused ones, but of course I'll dig in there to confirm.

The new card you linked draws 200W versus your old card's 64W...

All I can recommend is a less power-hungry GPU. What GPU? I can't say given I don't know what you're playing to require the upgrade, and I stopped caring about keeping up with gaming GPUs around four years ago; but I'd recommend splitting performance over power efficiency on the upgrade, and try to keep it under 100W if possible.

How do you know what the draw is?  I looked through the specs of each and don't see that anywhere.  So what's the trick?  (Edit -- you used the gpuzoo link below it looks like)



Also be mindful that apparent slowing graphics performance on the same games (if that's what you mean by lagging behind) might be issues anywhere from Windows OS bitrot (which a reinstall can fix) to hardware problems with the mobo or the video card as well, and you've got parts from companies known for using cheap electrolytic capacitors that're getting old. It might be worth doing some regular visual inspections, especially before upgrading. Otherwise, if it's working fine and performing well with what you're doing, who cares how old it is? Use it up, wear it out.

I just did a full re-install of my Win 7 OS from scratch a couple of months ago.  I generally play the same games, but lately, even after the re-install, sometimes while playing the graphics just get totally fucked and of course I can hear (what I assume is) the GPU laboring.  And I'm with you, I don't want to upgrade just for upgrades sake.  But the GPU is definitely the weak link in my system at the moment.  I sort of had in my head that I could replace this and go another ~5 years.  Of course, now you have me wondering about the PSU...


Have some tools:
http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine
http://www.gpuzoo.com/

Thanks, I'll check em out.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 06:42:02 PM by Eric »

Eric

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015, 06:23:27 PM »
I'm still running my old 6870 but this might help you out:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-3.html

I'll take a look.  Like IP said, I might be able to find something less power intensive.

Daley

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 06:54:56 PM »
I had no idea that was a thing.  You are correct that the PSU is 6 years old.

Yup, it is. Electrolytic capacitor aging across the board causes issues with age. If you're buying parts, aim for solid polymer capacitors as they tend to last a bit longer. (More info on capacitors in general than you can shake a stick at here.)

How do you know what the draw is?  I looked through the specs of each and don't see that anywhere.  So what's the trick?

Manufacturer specs, GPUZoo is good for looking it up these days. It's not an exact match on the specific part number, but the specs that matter match. Here's your current one. You can also work out a rough inferred real-world draw off the PSU calculator I linked you under certain loads by adding and removing various cards to the configuration.

I just did a full re-install of my Win 7 OS from scratch a couple of months ago.  I generally play the same games, but lately, even after the re-install, sometimes while playing the graphics just get totally fucked and of course I can hear (what I assume is) the GPU laboring.  And I'm with you, I don't want to upgrade just for upgrades sake.  But the GPU is definitely the weak link in my system at the moment.  I sort of had in my head that I could replace this and go another ~5 years.  Of course, now you have me wondering about the PSU...

This speaks more to hardware issues than actually needing an upgrade as solid state hardware should perform the same no matter how old it is, so long as there isn't overheating or hardware failure. Start by checking your mobo for swollen caps (your video card uses solid polymer, so if they're going - however unlikely - you couldn't tell anyway). You also might want to check the cooling fan on your current card (both for speed and dust bunnies), and get a look at running temperatures to check against normal. I'm personally leaning towards overheating from dust or fan failure first and foremost given the graphics card you have and the symptoms described. Second (very distant) might be mobo capacitors, but it'll be prudent to check anyway. I don't know what brand PSU you have, so I'm not inclined to speculate, but I suspect power draw is still low enough currently that this isn't your source of problems.

Hopefully this gets you straightened out or on the right path. Any other questions, don't hesitate to ask! I probably won't be responding though until tomorrow evening or Sunday.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 06:59:27 PM by I.P. Daley »

Eric

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 07:04:26 PM »
This speaks more to hardware issues than actually needing an upgrade as solid state hardware should perform the same no matter how old it is, so long as there isn't overheating or hardware failure. Start by checking your mobo for swollen caps (your video card uses solid polymer, so if they're going - however unlikely - you couldn't tell anyway). You also might want to check the cooling fan on your current card (both for speed and dust bunnies), and get a look at running temperatures to check against normal. I'm personally leaning towards overheating from dust or fan failure first and foremost given the graphics card you have and the symptoms described. Second (very distant) might be mobo capacitors, but it'll be prudent to check anyway. I don't know what brand PSU you have, so I'm not inclined to speculate, but I suspect power draw is still low enough currently that this isn't your source of problems.

Hopefully this gets you straightened out or on the right path. Any other questions, don't hesitate to ask! I probably won't be responding though until tomorrow evening or Sunday.

I'll dig in there this weekend and take a look.  I appreciate the help.

If you're wondering, the PSU is an Ultra LSP650
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3276573&sku=ULT-LSP650

Daley

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2015, 07:50:17 PM »
Last update for the evening. Stress test the current graphics card with FurMark.

If caps are fine and it's the graphics card with stability issues from heat damage that won't correct under load with improved cooling, then we'll talk replacements.

grantmeaname

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2015, 09:07:59 AM »
I have the Intel Core I-5, which is still in new builds today, I have 16mb of RAM, so I'm good there, plenty of hard drive space, 650w PSU, but my graphics card is really starting to lag behind.  I'm currently running this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5642516&CatId=3585
Gaming is much more GPU- than CPU-intensive, but you should know that Core i3/i5/i7 are meaningless marketing words and the processors made now are waaaay faster than the one in your box. You've probably got a Nehalem CPU like the Core i5-760; a broad-based benchmark like the PassMark suggests that the new processors coming out today are something like twice that speed, and lower power consumption too. In your shoes I'd probably upgrade just the GPU at first. If you don't see the improvement you're looking for, especially in the more CPU-intensive games like strategy games, your CPU may be the culprit.

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2015, 05:52:44 PM »
Your GPU sounds like it's on its last legs, so you should upgrade that; a new PSU might also be necessary. The other posters have covered that pretty thoroughly.

After that, both your CPU and storage would be the next step. Replacing your CPU usually requires a new motherboard due to different architecture, so that can be a pricey decision. Tom's Hardware does CPU comparison charts as well as GPU ones; I like picking a random 3DMark benchmarking test for my basis of comparison.

As for storage, have you considered getting an SSD? They blow HDDs out of the water. Switching from a HDD to an SSD can drastically cut loading times and mid-game graphical stutter because you can pull data (especially textures) much faster from the SSD into RAM. They're also pretty cheap these days now that the technology's matured.

cerebus

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2015, 01:12:34 AM »
I built my own rig about 6 years ago and it's still pretty sturdy.  I have the Intel Core I-5, which is still in new builds today

No, you have the 2nd gen LGA1155 i5 which is long since obsolete. Current gen is Haswell 1150, and upcoming is Broadwell, which is worth holding out on because it offers a serious CPU improvement, which hasn't been seen in some generations (mostly focused on IGPU upgrades which don't matter if you have a dedicated GPU).

Quote
I have 16gb of RAM, so I'm good there

Yeah hold onto that ram, that's plenty.

Quote
plenty of hard drive space

Just consider if you can't stretch for an SSD. Even an older 128gb model would boost your overall PC speeds so much that you won't believe it. You'll go from 30second startup for applications to 1-2 seconds. I picked up one for $55 on a secondhand forum.

Quote
650w PSU

As others said, that statistic is meaningless. However if it isn't giving you issues, don't worry about it. 

Quote
I'm thinking about upgrading to this, but I've been out of the game for a little while (and I'm not sure I was ever "in" to begin with), so I'm not sure if it's compatable with my system.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202099

I've spent an hour looking at this and I think it will work, but I definitely want to make sure before I drop $160.  The current video card says the interface is a PCI Express 2.0, so I'm guessing that the new one as a PCI Express 3.0 would fit right in place of it.  Is this a correct assumption?

It will work fine. Don't even worry about that. However, bear in mind that AMD cards are just about to launch their R9 3xx series, and that will bring prices down across the board. It's less than a month away and previews seem very positive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091

This would be another good choice. I think the 960 is a hair faster than the 280 (not the 280x - the X is significantly faster than the non-X 280).

Eric

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2015, 06:52:39 PM »
Hi guys,
Sorry to abandon you.  I do appreciate all the input.  I finally found some time 2 weekends ago to go in and clean out everything, dust, and have a general look around.  My motherboard appears to be normal to my untrained eye.  I don't notice any bulging or leaking capacitors.  I unscrewed the power supply from it's place on the tower, and make sure that that was cleaned out too (the fan is on the bottom, so it's hard to get at).  I did notice that my heatsink was pretty dirty, so in messing with cleaning that, I broke one plastic (ugh, why plastic?) holding pin.  And another one was already broken on the same side. 

When I fired my computer back up after cleaning, it's having problems.  It runs anywhere from zero to 10 minutes and just shuts off (zero meaning it wont fully boot).  I'm guessing that this is because my heatsink isn't sitting flush so it's probably not working properly, and the system is shutting down to prevent processor damage.  Interestingly, the longest run times have been when the tower was laying on its side, with gravity probably helping the heat sink connection.  I have a new heatsink coming and it should be here next week.  If that doesn't work, I'm thinking that the power supply could have a short in it (I was flexing the cords some), so I might as well replace that.  And if that doesn't work, it's got to be the motherboard, right?

Crap!  I went from thinking about upgrades to just wanting the thing to keep working in the span of 2-3 weeks.  It'll be another week before I can get the new heatsink on, so I guess I won't know much right away, but I didn't want this to get buried too much.

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2015, 07:21:41 PM »
Hi guys,
Sorry to abandon you.  I do appreciate all the input.  I finally found some time 2 weekends ago to go in and clean out everything, dust, and have a general look around.  My motherboard appears to be normal to my untrained eye.  I don't notice any bulging or leaking capacitors.  I unscrewed the power supply from it's place on the tower, and make sure that that was cleaned out too (the fan is on the bottom, so it's hard to get at).  I did notice that my heatsink was pretty dirty, so in messing with cleaning that, I broke one plastic (ugh, why plastic?) holding pin.  And another one was already broken on the same side. 

When I fired my computer back up after cleaning, it's having problems.  It runs anywhere from zero to 10 minutes and just shuts off (zero meaning it wont fully boot).  I'm guessing that this is because my heatsink isn't sitting flush so it's probably not working properly, and the system is shutting down to prevent processor damage.  Interestingly, the longest run times have been when the tower was laying on its side, with gravity probably helping the heat sink connection.  I have a new heatsink coming and it should be here next week.  If that doesn't work, I'm thinking that the power supply could have a short in it (I was flexing the cords some), so I might as well replace that.  And if that doesn't work, it's got to be the motherboard, right?

Crap!  I went from thinking about upgrades to just wanting the thing to keep working in the span of 2-3 weeks.  It'll be another week before I can get the new heatsink on, so I guess I won't know much right away, but I didn't want this to get buried too much.

Find a program that will tell you your CPU temperature to see if this is the root cause. It's been a while since I've done this, but COre Temp comes to mind.

Jeremy E.

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2015, 07:39:33 PM »
Hi guys,
Sorry to abandon you.  I do appreciate all the input.  I finally found some time 2 weekends ago to go in and clean out everything, dust, and have a general look around.  My motherboard appears to be normal to my untrained eye.  I don't notice any bulging or leaking capacitors.  I unscrewed the power supply from it's place on the tower, and make sure that that was cleaned out too (the fan is on the bottom, so it's hard to get at).  I did notice that my heatsink was pretty dirty, so in messing with cleaning that, I broke one plastic (ugh, why plastic?) holding pin.  And another one was already broken on the same side. 

When I fired my computer back up after cleaning, it's having problems.  It runs anywhere from zero to 10 minutes and just shuts off (zero meaning it wont fully boot).  I'm guessing that this is because my heatsink isn't sitting flush so it's probably not working properly, and the system is shutting down to prevent processor damage.  Interestingly, the longest run times have been when the tower was laying on its side, with gravity probably helping the heat sink connection.  I have a new heatsink coming and it should be here next week.  If that doesn't work, I'm thinking that the power supply could have a short in it (I was flexing the cords some), so I might as well replace that.  And if that doesn't work, it's got to be the motherboard, right?

Crap!  I went from thinking about upgrades to just wanting the thing to keep working in the span of 2-3 weeks.  It'll be another week before I can get the new heatsink on, so I guess I won't know much right away, but I didn't want this to get buried too much.
When upgrading new computer components, I like to shop around for a month or so, checking NewEgg Shell Shockers, slickdeals.net, dealnews.com and nobetterdeal.com, looking for the best deal I can find. However the one time my computer actually broke (power supply failure) I bought a new power supply off of Amazon that day and it was delivered 2 days later thanks to Amazon Prime shipping, and I was able to get my computer back up and running very quickly. So depending on how much you value your computer being functional, you have some options. I just learned about Electrolytic capacitor aging so I'm thinking maybe it crapped out on me because it got too weak, I chose 650W because it was just barely big enough to support my computer and I didn't want to spend more than I needed to.

Eric

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2015, 04:08:21 PM »
I should have some time to shop around.  I mean, I don't really like being without my computer at home, but I have weekday access at work, and of course a phone all the time.  And my wife has an iPad.  I just can't play any games.  But I'm sure a little detox won't be the end of the world.

I actually got this heatsink plus thermal paste on Tiger Direct.  $13 total.  I thought that was quite the deal.  Of course they screwed up the order somehow and didn't ship it until about 8 days after I placed it, but still.

Find a program that will tell you your CPU temperature to see if this is the root cause. It's been a while since I've done this, but COre Temp comes to mind.

Daley has one linked above (http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/).  I did use it briefly prior to cleaning and my temperature was in the normal range.  (49-52 Celsius?, I forget exactly, but it was normal)  I'm hesitant to turn it back on to test it before I get the new heatsink on there.  I'm not sure it matters much until then, as the part is on the way!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 04:17:01 PM by Eric »

cerebus

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2015, 06:15:39 AM »
Honestly, I do ALL of my PC upgrading through Gumtree or other local hardware 2ndhand forums. I pretty much upgrade the PC for free. And on Craigslist when I go on I see some crazy deals as well. It's a good option.

Eric

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2015, 07:03:36 PM »
Well, I installed the new heatsink easy enough.  But now my computer won't boot.  Super!

At first it wouldn't even turn over, but after messing with the heatsink fan power cord some, and loosening the screws a bit, it started right up.  But now the thing doesn't recognize Windows (7) anywhere.  I looked at the BIOS boot order and it had reset to boot from the DVD-ROM drive.  So I switched it to my HDD.  Nothing.  Then I switched it back.  I can boot using the Windows 7 disc in the DVD-ROM drive, but unfortunately the Startup Repair function isn't helping.  It doesn't recognize my HDD either.  I won't bore you with everything else I've tried so far, but suffice it to say, me and Tom's Hardware forums are about to become really good friends.

Luckily I re-installed Windows a few months back, so I have everything (almost) backed up, so if I have to do another re-install, that's an option.

Here's my take away from all this.    It's been 3 weeks with no home computer and it sucks big time.  I am going to be SO HAPPY when I finally get this thing back up and running that I doubt I'm going to give 2 shits that the GPU is lagging.  It's amazing how quickly your perspective can change.  :)


johnny847

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2015, 09:28:40 AM »
Well, I installed the new heatsink easy enough.  But now my computer won't boot.  Super!

At first it wouldn't even turn over, but after messing with the heatsink fan power cord some, and loosening the screws a bit, it started right up.  But now the thing doesn't recognize Windows (7) anywhere.  I looked at the BIOS boot order and it had reset to boot from the DVD-ROM drive.  So I switched it to my HDD.  Nothing.  Then I switched it back.  I can boot using the Windows 7 disc in the DVD-ROM drive, but unfortunately the Startup Repair function isn't helping.  It doesn't recognize my HDD either. I won't bore you with everything else I've tried so far, but suffice it to say, me and Tom's Hardware forums are about to become really good friends.

Luckily I re-installed Windows a few months back, so I have everything (almost) backed up, so if I have to do another re-install, that's an option.

Here's my take away from all this.    It's been 3 weeks with no home computer and it sucks big time.  I am going to be SO HAPPY when I finally get this thing back up and running that I doubt I'm going to give 2 shits that the GPU is lagging.  It's amazing how quickly your perspective can change.  :)

"It" being the BIOS or the Windows install disc? I assume you mean the Windows install disc because you were able to change the BIOS boot order to prioritize the HDD.


For the future, you can use something like Clonezilla (that's a free program that I recommend, there are others too if you prefer) to image your Windows install. You can create images to preserve an except copy of every bit on any partition on you hard drive. This way, if you ever have a major software issue, instead of having to reinstall Windows, you can just restore the image.

To do this effectively, it is best if you keep your Windows install on one partition and your data on another. Restoring an image is an all or nothing proposition - it will restore the entire partition. If you keep data and Windows on the same partition, and create and later restore an image, your (old) data will be restored with it.

Daley

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2015, 09:40:49 AM »
Eric, sorry for not responding sooner. It sounds like at this point there might have been a short develop somewhere either from the cleaning, loose heatsink or after installing the new one (there might still be), or a trace on the board got cracked.

You might want to (gently) check to make sure there's nothing in behind the mobo, make sure the board is properly mounted and grounded to the case, ensure all cable connections are well seated everywhere, and try a BIOS reset to factory default. You might get lucky.

Eric

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2015, 10:52:37 AM »
Well, I installed the new heatsink easy enough.  But now my computer won't boot.  Super!

At first it wouldn't even turn over, but after messing with the heatsink fan power cord some, and loosening the screws a bit, it started right up.  But now the thing doesn't recognize Windows (7) anywhere.  I looked at the BIOS boot order and it had reset to boot from the DVD-ROM drive.  So I switched it to my HDD.  Nothing.  Then I switched it back.  I can boot using the Windows 7 disc in the DVD-ROM drive, but unfortunately the Startup Repair function isn't helping.  It doesn't recognize my HDD either. I won't bore you with everything else I've tried so far, but suffice it to say, me and Tom's Hardware forums are about to become really good friends.

Luckily I re-installed Windows a few months back, so I have everything (almost) backed up, so if I have to do another re-install, that's an option.

Here's my take away from all this.    It's been 3 weeks with no home computer and it sucks big time.  I am going to be SO HAPPY when I finally get this thing back up and running that I doubt I'm going to give 2 shits that the GPU is lagging.  It's amazing how quickly your perspective can change.  :)

"It" being the BIOS or the Windows install disc? I assume you mean the Windows install disc because you were able to change the BIOS boot order to prioritize the HDD.

Yeah, the "it" in question is the Windows install disk Startup Repair function.  I do see (one of) my HDD(s) in the BIOS boot order options.  But when running the Windows Startup Repair using the disk, it can't find my copy of windows anywhere.  That would be the easy fix, obviously, but it's not to be.

For the future, you can use something like Clonezilla (that's a free program that I recommend, there are others too if you prefer) to image your Windows install. You can create images to preserve an except copy of every bit on any partition on you hard drive. This way, if you ever have a major software issue, instead of having to reinstall Windows, you can just restore the image.

To do this effectively, it is best if you keep your Windows install on one partition and your data on another. Restoring an image is an all or nothing proposition - it will restore the entire partition. If you keep data and Windows on the same partition, and create and later restore an image, your (old) data will be restored with it.

Probably a good idea.  Thanks.

Eric

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2015, 11:00:45 AM »
Eric, sorry for not responding sooner. It sounds like at this point there might have been a short develop somewhere either from the cleaning, loose heatsink or after installing the new one (there might still be), or a trace on the board got cracked.

You might want to (gently) check to make sure there's nothing in behind the mobo, make sure the board is properly mounted and grounded to the case, ensure all cable connections are well seated everywhere, and try a BIOS reset to factory default. You might get lucky.

The good thing is that my tower case has a rear panel that I can remove, so I can get to the back of the MOBO easily.  I'll have to inspect the board more closely, for cracks, but I didn't hear anything when tightening the heatsink down.  I didn't go hogwild on it or anything, so I think it was more the playing with the cord rather than loosening the screws a touch, but I did both so I'm not sure.

I will look into a BIOS reset.  Thanks!

cerebus

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2015, 10:49:09 PM »
Try switching the drive to another Sata port if it's not reading, or even just checking that it's firmly clicked into its normal port. Motherboards are quite easy to warp if you apply too much physical pressure so it's also possible that in putting the heatsink on you damaged something. It happened to a friend of mine.


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deborah

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2015, 12:54:29 AM »
I'm wondering if (during your dusting) you changed some of the pins for the drive connections (depending on the motherboard they can pop out), so it just doesn't know that it has two drives.

Eric

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2015, 11:01:53 AM »
Thanks for all the help everyone.  I fixed it!  Yeah!

I'm wondering if (during your dusting) you changed some of the pins for the drive connections (depending on the motherboard they can pop out), so it just doesn't know that it has two drives.

I think you're onto something here.  I decided to go through and disconnect and re-connect every cable/wire to make sure that they were properly hooked up, and I think the power cord to the one HDD was loose.  Once everything was connected properly, I was able to run the Windows Startup Repair and it fixed the issue.  So simple, yet so hard to crack!

I'm never cleaning that out again.  :)

I'm going to run some of testing tools from the first few posts this week and make sure everything is running at full capacity and proper temps.  And also make a backup image.

I'm probably still considering a new GPU, but for now, I'm pretty happy that the current build works again.

cerebus

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2015, 12:23:36 AM »
Thanks for all the help everyone.  I fixed it!  Yeah!

I'm wondering if (during your dusting) you changed some of the pins for the drive connections (depending on the motherboard they can pop out), so it just doesn't know that it has two drives.

I think you're onto something here.  I decided to go through and disconnect and re-connect every cable/wire to make sure that they were properly hooked up, and I think the power cord to the one HDD was loose.  Once everything was connected properly, I was able to run the Windows Startup Repair and it fixed the issue.  So simple, yet so hard to crack!

I'm never cleaning that out again.  :)

I'm going to run some of testing tools from the first few posts this week and make sure everything is running at full capacity and proper temps.  And also make a backup image.

I'm probably still considering a new GPU, but for now, I'm pretty happy that the current build works again.

Awesome glad to hear. Can you post the entire specification for your build? It would help to make a recommendation for what needs upgrading and what could be a present bottleneck. GPUs are pricey and it might not be the best way to spend your money if, for instance, you're sitting with less than 4gb ram or a Core2Duo CPU where you can barely run Windows.

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Re: PC builders -- a little help?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2015, 03:21:06 AM »
I'm probably still considering a new GPU, but for now, I'm pretty happy that the current build works again.

Yup, back on target to the initial problem:

Also be mindful that apparent slowing graphics performance on the same games (if that's what you mean by lagging behind) might be issues anywhere from Windows OS bitrot (which a reinstall can fix) to hardware problems with the mobo or the video card as well, and you've got parts from companies known for using cheap electrolytic capacitors that're getting old. It might be worth doing some regular visual inspections, especially before upgrading. Otherwise, if it's working fine and performing well with what you're doing, who cares how old it is? Use it up, wear it out.

I just did a full re-install of my Win 7 OS from scratch a couple of months ago.  I generally play the same games, but lately, even after the re-install, sometimes while playing the graphics just get totally fucked and of course I can hear (what I assume is) the GPU laboring.  And I'm with you, I don't want to upgrade just for upgrades sake.  But the GPU is definitely the weak link in my system at the moment.  I sort of had in my head that I could replace this and go another ~5 years.  Of course, now you have me wondering about the PSU...

I still suspect the GPU is knackered, and a few rounds of Furmark will probably confirm that. If the thing suited your gaming needs before performance went sideways, there's not much need or call for getting anything much beefier than what you already had. Makes selection much easier, and cheaper.

...that said, it's theoretically possible the CPU was overheating instead. Who knows, maybe replacing the heatsink cured all your ills. *shrug* Find out soon enough!