The Money Mustache Community

Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: scottish on February 06, 2018, 05:04:02 PM

Title: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 06, 2018, 05:04:02 PM
This is another fine mess.    An Ontario general election is coming up this spring, where we select a new government for Ontario.

For you non-Canadian types, we typically have 3 parties running for office:
1.  The conservatives.   A slightly right of center party.  Occasionally infiltrated by far right members.
2.  The liberals.  A fairly left of center party.
3.  The new democratic party.    Even more to the left than the liberals.

The liberals have been in power for the last 12 years and have accumulated a large amount of baggage, ranging from corruption, to mismanagement of public utilities to general fiscal mismanagement.

In the last 2 provincial elections, the conservative party has carefully snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by some bizarre action or other.   And now, just last month, the current leader of the conservative party has resigned after being accused of sexual misconduct.   The new candidates for leader of the conservative party are:

1.  Doug Ford - the less likable brother of the notorious Rob Ford, the former mayor of Toronto.
2.  Caroline Mulroney - daughter of former prime minister Brian Mulroney and a political neophyte.

The leader of the liberal party, and current premier - Kathleen Wynne - is very unappealing after her actions in her first term in office.
The NDP has only formed a government once - back around 1990 - and they were very fiscally irresponsible.
I cringe at the thought of Doug Ford as the premier of Ontario, much as I feel about Donald Trump as the president of the US.

The choices I can live with then are either the conservative party under Caroline Mulroney or possibly the NDP under Andrea Horvath.

To start, I've joined the conservative party in order to do my bit to ensure Doug Ford is *not* elected party leader.   Anyone who's a party member as of Feb 16th can vote in the leader selection.

Any opinions from other people living in Ontario?

Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: PoutineLover on February 06, 2018, 05:20:51 PM
I just wanted to say, I'm very glad I moved out of Ontario, although my current province has almost equally unappealing governance. No advice, but I sympathize.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 06, 2018, 05:44:50 PM
Haha, yes, well the type of technology work I do is mostly in Ottawa these days.   So I'm stuck unless I decide to change fields.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Sibley on February 07, 2018, 07:57:25 AM
I'm not in Ontario, but can I just say good luck? With that choice, I might give the new kids on the block a chance, with a strong warning that I'm watching them and will raise hell if they screw up.

But considering that my country seems to be tearing itself in half and is the laughing stock of the world right now...
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on February 07, 2018, 09:09:34 AM
I disagree slightly with your analysis regarding political leanings of the parties.  The liberals are pretty centrist . . . maybe center right.

The liberals in Ontario really need to go.  So much corruption and mismanagement over so many years.  The NDP has not really been a credible threat to them as far back as I can remember though, and the Conservatives have done everything possible to shoot themselves in the foot for the past four elections.

So, way back in the day when Toronto elected our crack smoking mayor and he cancelled the LRT that was under construction in Scarborough (at great cost to the city, and to be replaced with nothing for the forseeable future) I the mayor's office an email requesting that he rethink the decision.  I got back a form email thanking me for my support of Rob Ford.  :S  I thought that was annoying but put it out of my mind.

I guess Doug Ford has retained a list of all emails sent to the city of Toronto while his brother was doing drugs in office.  Because I started getting daily emails last Friday.  Here's today's email (original creative spacing included):

Quote
Friend,


I need to tell you the truth.

 

It's been years since your voice has been heard.

 

The elites have abandoned you.

 

In fact, they never cared in the first place.

 

It's time for them to go.

 

I can't do it alone.

 

I need you to join PC Party right now.

 

There's no other way to beat the insiders.

 

Get your membership here. (https://www.ontariopc.ca/party_membership)

 

Doug

 

www.fordforleader.ca

 

Ford for Leader ∑ Canada
You can also keep up with Ford for Leader on Twitter or Facebook.

I'm debating if I want to protest vote Green or NDP as I did the last two elections, or maybe even give Caroline Mulroney a chance if it looks like it'll be close between the conservatives and liberals . . . but I just can't vote for Doug Ford.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Prairie Stash on February 07, 2018, 10:11:18 AM
Not in Ontario.

If this was a CBC drama it would be great. Except it would be heavily criticized for unbelievable characters and cancelled after the first season.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: SoftwareGoddess on February 07, 2018, 11:49:49 AM
I'm still traumatized by the memories of the Mike Harris and (to a lesser extent) Bob Rae governments. For some reason, the Liberals aren't turning me off as much as the other two parties.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 07, 2018, 03:32:00 PM
And <shudder> Ernie Eves.  Responsible for amalgamating all the cities in the Ottawa region into one giant city, so that poor Ottawa wouldn't have to deal with it's self-inflicted debt.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on February 07, 2018, 06:07:37 PM
When I was a kid growing up in Quebec, Ontario politics looked so sane and sensible. Now that I live in Ontario, Quebec doesn't look so bad. Where do I vote for none of the above?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Shinplaster on February 07, 2018, 06:26:50 PM
Where do I vote for none of the above?

I will be holding my nose, and voting for the party I hate least.  At the moment, it's between the Conservatives and NDP, not because they deserve my vote, but because Wynne doesn't.   Hopefully the local candidates will be more impressive and I will be able to vote *for* someone.

If Doug Ford is elected leader of the Conservatives, my vote will have to go to the NDP.  Every time I see him on TV, I want to punch him through the screen.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Canadian Ben on February 07, 2018, 06:32:02 PM
Can I vote for the current Quebec government to take over Ontario too?

I despise what Wynne is doing, but Doug Ford won't be better. The "Anything but who we have now" is a terrible reason for choosing who to vote for.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on February 08, 2018, 08:28:17 AM
When I was a kid growing up in Quebec, Ontario politics looked so sane and sensible. Now that I live in Ontario, Quebec doesn't look so bad. Where do I vote for none of the above?

Green is a pretty safe protest vote.  They'll never get enough votes to put someone in power while the first past the post system exists.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: SoftwareGoddess on February 08, 2018, 09:20:19 AM
I happen to live in one of those ridings where the "irregularities" in PC candidate selection occurred. So the PCs are even more off the table for me. Although, if they cleaned that up before the election, I might reconsider, as long as Doug Ford is not the party leader.

The Greens are looking better all the time.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 08, 2018, 03:33:13 PM
I believe you can influence whether Doug Ford becomes party leader or not.

From global news:  https://globalnews.ca/news/4000084/ontario-pc-leadership-registration/ (https://globalnews.ca/news/4000084/ontario-pc-leadership-registration/)

Quote
Those seeking to take the reins Ė or help decide who will Ė must register with the party by Feb. 16, with the vote set to begin a few weeks later.

For $10 you can vote for the party leader of your choice, as long as you join by Feb 16.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on February 08, 2018, 06:00:55 PM
I believe you can influence whether Doug Ford becomes party leader or not.

From global news:  https://globalnews.ca/news/4000084/ontario-pc-leadership-registration/ (https://globalnews.ca/news/4000084/ontario-pc-leadership-registration/)

Quote
Those seeking to take the reins Ė or help decide who will Ė must register with the party by Feb. 16, with the vote set to begin a few weeks later.

For $10 you can vote for the party leader of your choice, as long as you join by Feb 16.

If you want to tank the Conservatives chances in Ontario you can always vote for Ford . . .    :P
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on February 08, 2018, 06:42:42 PM
It's a mess. I don't know who I'm going to vote for.

All I can say at this point is the "Fair Hydro" plan makes me livid (borrow money, which we'll have to pay back with higher rates later), and I think the minimum wage hike is bribery.

In theory I'm a cross between a "small c" conservative (government should do only what it needs to; including regulation of stuff but have that politically separate; i.e., no selling of beer, wine, cannabis unless the free market absolutely cannot) and I don't know what (I thing guaranteed minimum income is a fantastic idea).

Doug Ford? Oh, God.

I'll look forward to reading the platforms. I doubt I would vote NDP as I am against the idea of unions generally (what they do should be done for everyone regardless, in terms of employee rights; they tend to work solely for their own self interest rather than actually making things better). But some things make some sense.

It's very hard, when each party has something you really don't like.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 09, 2018, 03:42:19 PM
I believe you can influence whether Doug Ford becomes party leader or not.

From global news:  https://globalnews.ca/news/4000084/ontario-pc-leadership-registration/ (https://globalnews.ca/news/4000084/ontario-pc-leadership-registration/)

Quote
Those seeking to take the reins Ė or help decide who will Ė must register with the party by Feb. 16, with the vote set to begin a few weeks later.

For $10 you can vote for the party leader of your choice, as long as you join by Feb 16.

If you want to tank the Conservatives chances in Ontario you can always vote for Ford . . .    :P

I was thinking the best way to keep Ford out of the premier's office is to keep him from being party leader!
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: okits on February 10, 2018, 10:44:32 PM
It's very hard, when each party has something you really don't like.

As was remarked in the thread about the last federal election, "choosing which party to vote for is like trying to decide which STD is right for you".

Any tips on how to avoid repeated requests for donations if I join the PC party to vote for not-Doug-Ford?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on February 11, 2018, 07:18:19 AM
It's very hard, when each party has something you really don't like.

As was remarked in the thread about the last federal election, "choosing which party to vote for is like trying to decide which STD is right for you".

Any tips on how to avoid repeated requests for donations if I join the PC party to vote for not-Doug-Ford?

I *really* feel like I should start a political party. Problem is I am a massive introvert; knocking on doors campaigning is anathema to me. Sigh.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Canadian Ben on February 11, 2018, 07:51:31 AM
It's very hard, when each party has something you really don't like.

As was remarked in the thread about the last federal election, "choosing which party to vote for is like trying to decide which STD is right for you".

Any tips on how to avoid repeated requests for donations if I join the PC party to vote for not-Doug-Ford?

I *really* feel like I should start a political party. Problem is I am a massive introvert; knocking on doors campaigning is anathema to me. Sigh.

MJ is still free. Maybe you can subcontract?

I assume your tag-line would be: "I'm an actual adult. Vote for me."
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on February 11, 2018, 09:08:53 AM
When I was a kid growing up in Quebec, Ontario politics looked so sane and sensible. Now that I live in Ontario, Quebec doesn't look so bad. Where do I vote for none of the above?

Green is a pretty safe protest vote.  They'll never get enough votes to put someone in power while the first past the post system exists.

I voted Green often in federal elections. It would be nice to be happy about voting for a mainstream candidate.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: frugalcanuck on February 11, 2018, 08:07:48 PM
I think I will be going Green Party again.  I'm in a riding where my vote will likely not count for anything anyways.  Last election I saw Mike Schreiner on TVO's Agenda and was impressed.  So I voted for them.  That was the first time I did not vote strategically and it felt really good.
I don't think there is a way to vote strategically this time.  No reasonable person would want any of the big 3 parties.  And the parties know it.

Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: ChrisCraft2015 on February 12, 2018, 02:02:03 PM
I'll be voting PC, either Ford, Mulroney or whoever takes the lead.  Very tired of the Liberals and ready for a change.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 12, 2018, 03:58:40 PM
There's still 4 days to join the party and be eligible to vote in the leadership race.   I coughed up the $10 as part of my little campaign to keep Doug Ford out of office.

He e-mailed me his platform (as part of a mass e-mailing) today:

Quote
Educating our kids is the most important job in the world.

Right now, half of our grade 6 students arenít meeting the provincial standard in math.

This is a crisis.

We need to focus on teaching kids facts, not ideology.

Thatís why if Iím elected as leader, Iíll take issues like sex-ed to parents.

Because public schools should focus on getting kids ready to get great jobs.

Beyond that, parents should get the first and final say.

I will remain firm on this issue.

I have always respected the taxpayer.

I have always opposed the carbon tax.

I will always stand for parents deciding what their children learn at school.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: ChrisCraft2015 on February 13, 2018, 05:25:58 AM
There's still 4 days to join the party and be eligible to vote in the leadership race.   I coughed up the $10 as part of my little campaign to keep Doug Ford out of office.

He e-mailed me his platform (as part of a mass e-mailing) today:

Quote
Educating our kids is the most important job in the world.

Right now, half of our grade 6 students arenít meeting the provincial standard in math.

This is a crisis.

We need to focus on teaching kids facts, not ideology.

Thatís why if Iím elected as leader, Iíll take issues like sex-ed to parents.

Because public schools should focus on getting kids ready to get great jobs.

Beyond that, parents should get the first and final say.

I will remain firm on this issue.

I have always respected the taxpayer.

I have always opposed the carbon tax.

I will always stand for parents deciding what their children learn at school.

And what part of this do you have a problem with? 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on February 13, 2018, 06:39:26 AM
There's still 4 days to join the party and be eligible to vote in the leadership race.   I coughed up the $10 as part of my little campaign to keep Doug Ford out of office.

He e-mailed me his platform (as part of a mass e-mailing) today:

Quote
Educating our kids is the most important job in the world.

Right now, half of our grade 6 students arenít meeting the provincial standard in math.

This is a crisis.

We need to focus on teaching kids facts, not ideology.

Thatís why if Iím elected as leader, Iíll take issues like sex-ed to parents.

Because public schools should focus on getting kids ready to get great jobs.

Beyond that, parents should get the first and final say.

I will remain firm on this issue.

I have always respected the taxpayer.

I have always opposed the carbon tax.

I will always stand for parents deciding what their children learn at school.

And what part of this do you have a problem with?

Let me see. Oh... pretty much everything.

It is written as if to a four year old. Massive non sequitur there about the carbon tax - let's just jam that in there somehow eh?

Parents shouldn't get the final say on education unless they happen to have degrees in education. Parents are free to teach whatever they like at home; school is to learn facts, ways of thinking, and so on (and no doubt it isn't a perfect system at the moment; but holy shit, I know that the education system is going to give my children a much better education than I would be able to on my own).

Sex-ed? I don't even remember the details of this but my God, we would be better as a race if we were a little less uptight about sex generally.

I have always respected the taxpayer?! Oh fuck off. Really.

I will bring back jobs to America Canada because we've had some bad trade deals. Possibly the worst trade deals in history. I've made some great deals. I've always supported coal miners.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on February 13, 2018, 08:09:14 AM
There's still 4 days to join the party and be eligible to vote in the leadership race.   I coughed up the $10 as part of my little campaign to keep Doug Ford out of office.

He e-mailed me his platform (as part of a mass e-mailing) today:

Quote
Educating our kids is the most important job in the world.

Right now, half of our grade 6 students arenít meeting the provincial standard in math.

This is a crisis.

We need to focus on teaching kids facts, not ideology.

Thatís why if Iím elected as leader, Iíll take issues like sex-ed to parents.

Because public schools should focus on getting kids ready to get great jobs.

Beyond that, parents should get the first and final say.

I will remain firm on this issue.

I have always respected the taxpayer.

I have always opposed the carbon tax.

I will always stand for parents deciding what their children learn at school.

And what part of this do you have a problem with?

Let me see. Oh... pretty much everything.

It is written as if to a four year old. Massive non sequitur there about the carbon tax - let's just jam that in there somehow eh?

Parents shouldn't get the final say on education unless they happen to have degrees in education. Parents are free to teach whatever they like at home; school is to learn facts, ways of thinking, and so on (and no doubt it isn't a perfect system at the moment; but holy shit, I know that the education system is going to give my children a much better education than I would be able to on my own).

Sex-ed? I don't even remember the details of this but my God, we would be better as a race if we were a little less uptight about sex generally.

I have always respected the taxpayer?! Oh fuck off. Really.

I will bring back jobs to America Canada because we've had some bad trade deals. Possibly the worst trade deals in history. I've made some great deals. I've always supported coal miners.

My issues, point by point:

Educating kids is important.  More important jobs than educating kids exist.  Like feeding people who are starving, not supporting torture, preventing child pornography/abuse, etc.  This is a stupid statement.

My parents are both teachers.  They were there when the new educational standard in Ontario was introduced.  It's tougher curriculum, but it's a significantly better way to learn.  It focuses on teaching children to think and reason about a problem, and de-prioritizes rote memorization.  Although Ford's comment is not specific, it sounds like he's in favour of returning to easier (and less useful) rote memorization.

While sex ed is part of the curriculum, any parent can opt to have their child removed from health class while sex ed is being taught.  Given that this is already the case, it sounds like Ford simply wants to remove sex ed from the classroom entirely - including for children who want their kids to learn about it.  That's actually a negative for freedom - not a positive.

Public schools aren't in the business of getting kids ready for jobs, they're there to lay a baseline level of education upon which the child can build.  Kids really aren't getting jobs anyway.  Job training tends to happen more at the highschool, college, and university level.  Without a degree, your kid is not likely going to be getting a job that requires much prior training education anyway.

I honestly have no idea what any of:
"parents should get the first and final say"
"I will remain firm on this issue"
"I have always respected the taxpayer"
really mean.

Dunno how carbon tax worked it's way into this rant about education, but this kinda seems like Ford has no idea what he's talking about.  The provinces and federal government have already agreed to implement a carbon tax by the end of 2018.  If they don't, the federal government will implement one for them.  Regardless of opposition to it, people in Ontario (along with the rest of Canada) will be paying a carbon tax . . . so this is a weird thing to put in the letter.

"I will always stand for parents deciding what their children learn at school." is another confusing statement.  What exactly is he talking about?  People can opt out of sex ed.  People can choose to go to a public secular or Catholic school if they want.  People are allowed to send their kids to a private school or even homeschool if they don't like the curriculum.  What additional choice is Ford hoping for?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 13, 2018, 03:40:50 PM
There's still 4 days to join the party and be eligible to vote in the leadership race.   I coughed up the $10 as part of my little campaign to keep Doug Ford out of office.

He e-mailed me his platform (as part of a mass e-mailing) today:

Quote
Educating our kids is the most important job in the world.

Right now, half of our grade 6 students arenít meeting the provincial standard in math.

This is a crisis.

We need to focus on teaching kids facts, not ideology.

Thatís why if Iím elected as leader, Iíll take issues like sex-ed to parents.

Because public schools should focus on getting kids ready to get great jobs.

Beyond that, parents should get the first and final say.

I will remain firm on this issue.

I have always respected the taxpayer.

I have always opposed the carbon tax.

I will always stand for parents deciding what their children learn at school.

And what part of this do you have a problem with?

It's very stream of consciousness instead of a well thought out, structured platform.    Like big Doug just wrote down the first 10 things that came to his mind.

For example, I agree that weak math skills in primary school is a crisis.   But I don't see how messing around with sex ed is going to improve math skills.

"Public schools should focus on getting kids ready to get great jobs."   Reality much?   Great jobs require a university education these days.   

"I have always respected the taxpayer".   Except for the Doug Ford monorail, I guess.   https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/08/30/doug_fords_dream_waterfront_ferris_wheel_monorail_and_a_boatin_hotel.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/08/30/doug_fords_dream_waterfront_ferris_wheel_monorail_and_a_boatin_hotel.html)   That seems strangely like the Simpson's monorail episode.

"I have always opposed the carbon tax."    Really?   Because you don't believe in climate change?    Why have you opposed this tax?   What do you think about taxes in general?   If we have less taxes, will we have even more debt?   Or will our roads and bridges continue to deteriorate?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 14, 2018, 03:22:58 PM
Doug Ford's e-mail of the day:

Quote
The Liberals are giving taxpayer money to political parties to run their campaigns.
Just last year:
$5 million went to the Liberals.
$4 million went to the PC Party.

$0 is how much taxpayer money either party deserved.

Only the most politically corrupt insiders at Queenís Park could believe this is a good idea.
Tax dollars shouldnít go to political parties.

You know me.
You know I will stand up for taxpayers.
Iíll end the taxpayer slush fund for political parties.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Canadian Ben on February 16, 2018, 04:50:56 PM
And now, after bowing out, he's back in the running: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/brown-enters-leadership-race-1.4539276

I'm sure that this was great for his image.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 16, 2018, 05:25:52 PM
You can't make this stuff up.

And I can't believe the amount of spam I'm getting from the party now that I've joined.  Sigh.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on February 16, 2018, 05:57:15 PM
lol
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on February 20, 2018, 08:28:58 AM
You can't make this stuff up.

And I can't believe the amount of spam I'm getting from the party now that I've joined.  Sigh.

I joined the Quebec Liberal Party (Provincial not Federal) many years ago because the party big-wigs wanted to parachute in a candidate when we had a really good local candidate.  Once we managed to get our local candidate in, my interest went back to 0.  I got stuff for a bit but eventually they gave up.  Now that electronic spam is so easy and cheap, you may have to put up with it longer.  You can always not renew (it is a one year membership?).

Not much happening in my riding yet.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on February 20, 2018, 03:19:01 PM
I can deal with the spam automatically.   It has a very juvenile feel to it though.   Like the candidates are running for election in high school or something.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on February 27, 2018, 03:10:34 PM
This is priceless, can't believe I am the first one posting it.  ;-)

https://twitter.com/monicarooney/status/968266714877067264 (https://twitter.com/monicarooney/status/968266714877067264)
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on March 02, 2018, 10:56:23 AM
This makes me depressed:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/patrick-brown-ontario-pc-carbon-tax-analysis-wherry-1.4557291

Very, very depressed.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on March 02, 2018, 11:02:24 AM
Flailing at a carbon tax but no alternatives?  That is not enough this close to the election.

We do have a provincial Green Party, but they seem to be totally off the media radar.  I can't even remember if they had a candidate in my riding last time. 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on March 02, 2018, 12:04:48 PM
Flailing at a carbon tax but no alternatives?  That is not enough this close to the election.

We do have a provincial Green Party, but they seem to be totally off the media radar.  I can't even remember if they had a candidate in my riding last time.

Right! How can the Conservatives be this bad when all they have to do is look reasonable and sane and they'd absolutely demolish the Liberals??

I feel that Ontario needs a change but at this point... The Conservatives are not the change I would like to see. I guess it is too much to ask for to find a party that actually represents not just a narrow set of special interests, or is corrupt/power drunk and will do anything not to be booted out?

What happened to principles? To logic and rationale? I know it is facile to just blame the media/social media but... I want to scream. I really do.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on March 02, 2018, 12:13:52 PM
Flailing at a carbon tax but no alternatives?  That is not enough this close to the election.

We do have a provincial Green Party, but they seem to be totally off the media radar.  I can't even remember if they had a candidate in my riding last time.

Right! How can the Conservatives be this bad when all they have to do is look reasonable and sane and they'd absolutely demolish the Liberals??

I feel that Ontario needs a change but at this point... The Conservatives are not the change I would like to see. I guess it is too much to ask for to find a party that actually represents not just a narrow set of special interests, or is corrupt/power drunk and will do anything not to be booted out?

What happened to principles? To logic and rationale? I know it is facile to just blame the media/social media but... I want to scream. I really do.

Northern Ontario always goes NDP, the GTA always goes liberal or NDP.  This has been true for more than two decades.  I just think that the Conservatives totally gave up on trying to win in Ontario some while ago.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: techwiz on March 02, 2018, 12:28:57 PM
There is a choice of the None of The Above (NOTA) Party
http://nota.ca/ (http://nota.ca/)

They currently have Candidates in 37 of the 124 ridings.

They are not in my riding yet ,but hope to see one before election time.   
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on March 02, 2018, 07:45:26 PM
Not in my riding either, but I will keep an eye open - not impressed with any of the parties now.  Our MPP is a cipher, so if I know and think well of a NOTA candidate, that would be my vote.  No Green Party candidate yet either.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on March 03, 2018, 09:40:20 AM
Hopefully we'll at least get a minority government to keep the worst of the dogmatic excess under control.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on March 10, 2018, 04:50:44 PM
Uh oh.   Looks like the conservative party is determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/03/10/tussles-over-ballot-counting-delay-results-in-ontario-pc-leadership-race.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/03/10/tussles-over-ballot-counting-delay-results-in-ontario-pc-leadership-race.html)

I wonder what the NDP platform looks like?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: okits on March 10, 2018, 05:27:07 PM
Oh geez.  This is not good news. 

I wonder what the NDP platform looks like?

You're not the only one!
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on March 10, 2018, 05:29:31 PM
It boggles the mind that the less likable brother of our crack addicted idiot of a mayor looks like the next face of the PC party in this province.  :P
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on March 10, 2018, 06:51:14 PM
It boggles the mind that the less likable brother of our crack addicted idiot of a mayor looks like the next face of the PC party in this province.  :P

What does it say about the state of Western society that 'we' are voting for Brexit, Trump... that these things are even getting to the ballot box?

I feel like I SHOULD vote Liberal now, if Ford really does get in (edit: as party leader). Gawd.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: okits on March 10, 2018, 09:09:19 PM
I saw the official announcement, live, about an hour ago.  Kathleen Wynne is probably partying her ass off tonight.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: bluebelle on March 11, 2018, 07:03:08 AM
holy fuck, how did this happen? 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on March 11, 2018, 10:18:09 AM
It just gets better, doesn't it?  My mostly rural riding is Liberal, our MPP is useless, but at least he isn't part of this mess.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-christine-elliott-ontario-pc-leader-1.4571444 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-christine-elliott-ontario-pc-leader-1.4571444)
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on March 11, 2018, 10:26:10 AM
WTF - If these people can't hold a leadership convention in 6 weeks - htf - can they run a province?

WTF with the sex ed curriculum?  I read the entire thing from K- grade 7 and was so bored I couldn't bring myself to finish the grade 8 section.  I had heard this poor bloke on the radio saying he "didn't want his son taught masturbation" in grade three so I went looking for how the poor grade 3 teachers were supposed to teach that.  Not that I thought for a minute that his son needed any instruction - my son figured that well before he went to school.  (It was my job to teach him not to touch his genitals while eating dinner.) 

After reading 90% of the curriculum, which is actually not a sex education curriculum but a health curriculum btw, I could not for the life of me figure out what the fuss was about.  I was relieved to see a continuous thread of age appropriate topics around all aspects of physical and mental health.  I thought the mental health thread was brilliant and was relieved to see how it was being discussed in the classroom. It is exactly what I feel will help our kids get over stigma and help me parent a healthy child.
Also,  I simply don't understand why anyone would object to calling body parts any other name other than what they are.  It is helpful to me as parent to know that my two year old has an itchy "bagina" even if she is not able to pronounce "v"s so that I know to make sure she doesn't have an infection that develops into a bladder or kidney infection.

But election of a climate change denying boob will not impact me much. I am voting Green, as I have in every election provincially and federally for more than fifteen years. 

The media doesn't want you to know that there is a Green option for some reason.  But there is and they ran candidates in every riding last election.  This election they are aiming for 50% of their candidates to be women.  They also have a huge number of young candidates.  Bright, energetic and passionate people that are so courageous to run for office when the media pays no attention to them. The Greens have a great platform.  They advocate for evidence based decision making.

The NDP doesn't want you to know there is a Green Party because they want to maintain their edge on the environment issue - But the Green Party's fiscal positions are actually much closer to the PC party and their environmental policy positions are superior.  The Leap Manifesto had nothing that the Green Party of Canada had not been advocating for years before.  The Green are green and well, open for business. 

And the biggest money suck - having four school boards in our province - the Green platform is for a single school system so that kids stay in their neighbourhood and can walk to the school closest to their home instead of having four different schools, with four different principals, four different school boards and buses driving around ferrying to schools in different neighborhoods makes the most sense to me. British North America act can be amended - The other provincial signatories of that aren't in the same mess.

And the last one - electoral reform.    It would be nice to vote and see my choice in the legislature - but I haven't voted strategically ever and it feels really damned good to vote for the the candidate that I feel has the best policy platform.  I always vote in hope and never in fear.

First off - lets get Mike included in the leadership debate so that he has the chance to show Ontario that there is a choice.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: meghan88 on March 11, 2018, 10:53:12 AM
Now I'm really looking forward to moving back to Quebec in a couple of years.  Yikes.

Even though Quebec has its own unique set of problems, at least the politics are amusing.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on March 11, 2018, 01:54:34 PM
I know BC also has political issues, but VI looks better than ever.

And if Ford gets in*, I will tell every American who apologizes to me for Trump that they have good company in Ontario. I feel equally bad about my provincial premier.

*I can hope. but look how many ridings are in the GTA.  And most rural ridings vote Conservative.  So Ford winning is definitely a possibility.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Canadian Ben on March 16, 2018, 12:01:33 PM
Good god. I didn't follow what was wrong with Doug Ford, (Since his brother was taken all the headlines) But who in the right mind looks at the US and says, we need some of that. Why couldn't the PC pick a bland, boring, CPA. He'd win out of pure hate for the liberals...

http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/what-happened-the-last-time-someone-tried-to-make-ontario-great-again/
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on March 17, 2018, 05:55:17 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-ndp-universal-health-care-1.4581129

I might actually go NDP.

Quote
Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne said she welcomes "a number of the ideas brought forward by the NDP today, especially those to help seniors, and support our healthcare system."

Aren't seniors the richest group in society? Can't we just get away from this "throw money at people who vote for us", and rather "spend money where it's actually needed - and, if it isn't, don't spend it"?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on March 17, 2018, 06:08:25 PM
Can't we just get away from this "throw money at people who vote for us", and rather "spend money where it's actually needed - and, if it isn't, don't spend it"?

That sounds like a surefire way to not get voted in ever again.  :P
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on March 18, 2018, 07:26:15 AM
Good god. I didn't follow what was wrong with Doug Ford, (Since his brother was taken all the headlines) But who in the right mind looks at the US and says, we need some of that. Why couldn't the PC pick a bland, boring, CPA. He'd win out of pure hate for the liberals...

http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/what-happened-the-last-time-someone-tried-to-make-ontario-great-again/
Terrifying
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on March 18, 2018, 07:46:03 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-ndp-universal-health-care-1.4581129

I might actually go NDP.

Quote
Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne said she welcomes "a number of the ideas brought forward by the NDP today, especially those to help seniors, and support our healthcare system."

Aren't seniors the richest group in society? Can't we just get away from this "throw money at people who vote for us", and rather "spend money where it's actually needed - and, if it isn't, don't spend it"?

I have no idea.  I am no richer than I was before being a senior.  And in my rural area I know lots of definitely not rich seniors, including some who are in their 80's and still working part-time.  To generalize massively, we seem to be in roughly the same income group we were in before retirement.  Anyone have actual data?  And median not average income (a few really rich people skew this upwards) or deciles or something that gives a reasonably accurate picture.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on March 18, 2018, 11:21:10 AM
I'm unsure what to do.   The Liberal government has stuck its fingers in several pots where they don't belong (EVs, green energy, Toronto real estate) while running constant budget deficits and not making much progress on real problems that they should be addressing (infrastructure maintenance and repair, health care, care for the soon to be elderly baby boomers).   

Ford did a interview where he didn't sound at all Trump like here:   https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/video-doug-ford-on-his-campaign-plans-as-new-leader-of-ontario-pc-party/ (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/video-doug-ford-on-his-campaign-plans-as-new-leader-of-ontario-pc-party/)   But I remain pretty skeptical.    We'll see what develops over the spring.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on March 19, 2018, 03:15:11 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-ndp-universal-health-care-1.4581129

I might actually go NDP.

Quote
Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne said she welcomes "a number of the ideas brought forward by the NDP today, especially those to help seniors, and support our healthcare system."

Aren't seniors the richest group in society? Can't we just get away from this "throw money at people who vote for us", and rather "spend money where it's actually needed - and, if it isn't, don't spend it"?

I have no idea.  I am no richer than I was before being a senior.  And in my rural area I know lots of definitely not rich seniors, including some who are in their 80's and still working part-time.  To generalize massively, we seem to be in roughly the same income group we were in before retirement.  Anyone have actual data?  And median not average income (a few really rich people skew this upwards) or deciles or something that gives a reasonably accurate picture.

I've read a few pieces over the years, this is the best I can find with a quick search: http://www.macleans.ca/politics/why-seniors-shouldnt-get-discounts/

Not sure if this helps on a quick glance, but it certainly shows 'Senior families' as having the largest median: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/140225/t140225b001-eng.htm

Seniors also get a larger tax free allowance I believe (~$17k rather than $11? Federally)... Plus CPP, OAS etc kicking in means you really ought to be at the least comfortable when hitting 65. 20% off here there and everywhere (I went to Shoppers on a Thursday a month or two back to pick up milk... they were out.. I asked someone and they said, yeah, the seniors come in and clear them out!).
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on March 19, 2018, 03:35:17 PM
daverobev

CPP - depends on your pension plan.  My pension plan was a defined benefit one that assumed you would take CPP when you turned 65.  And its amount went down by the amount you would get from CPP when you turned 65, so no new income once CPP was started.  And of course OAS is clawed back once one has a decent retirement income (which I am OK with, the fact that I pay taxes means I have a decent enough income that I have to pay taxes). 

Your table - I looked at median net worth, and as expected it went up with age.  And I hope it would go up with age, or people have no savings for retirement.

I looked at median for senior families and single seniors, and single seniors had less than half the net worth of senior couples (246,000 versus 650,400).  Given that on average women live longer than men, and on average for more couples the husband is the older, a lot of those single seniors are elderly women.  And when I look at the elderly women I know, a lot of them are still in their family home, which implies a lot of that net worth is house.  So an interesting table, but a better breakdown would be nice.  Like net worth excluding house.  And show seniors broken down by age groups just like the other groups.  There will be a lot of difference between someone in their 60s (boomers) versus 70s (war babies) versus 80s versus 90s.

Plus, I would imagine the senior discounts are used a lot more by those who really need them.  I don't worry about shopping on the day I get the discount.  So Shoppers and Bulk Barn and so on may offer them (on different days, of course), but I rarely use them.  Other factors are more important, like doing all my errands in one trip.


Back to the election - any idea when the parties will be done choosing candidates so we can get on with all the political excitement?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: techwiz on March 20, 2018, 07:59:30 AM
Quote
Back to the election - any idea when the parties will be done choosing candidates so we can get on with all the political excitement?
Lots of information here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_general_election,_2018 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_general_election,_2018).  The latest date currently posted is April 14 for a nomination meeting.  I am still waiting for someone from the NOTA (None Of The Above) party to run in my riding.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on March 21, 2018, 08:01:18 AM
I don't know if this is against forum rules for being too political but I haven't heard much about this in the mainstream media and it is not specifically political to one party although the Green Party will lose big time if not included.

Elections Ontario gives a per vote grant for political parties that get enough votes to meet a minimum threshold.  For this upcoming election, four political parties qualify for this public funding.  The Green Party of Ontario got enough votes in the last election to warrant getting public money for this election.  But the Liberals, NDP and PC and a media consortium decide privately who and how and when the voters get to hear for the televised leaders debate.  At this point in time, the Green Party Leader is not on the slate.  Even though the Green Party is receiving tax payer dollars, the people who rely a great deal on the leaders debate to decide who to vote for won't get to hear from one of the parties they are sponsoring. And I think how and when and where and who of the debate should be a transparent process.  This just seems undemocratic to me. 

I have signed petitions and have been emailing other party leaders to get all the leaders we are sponsoring at the debate but this issue is not getting a lot of media play.  Fairdebate.ca is the website and there is a change.org petition.

My apologies to the moderator if this crosses the line as too political.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on March 21, 2018, 09:36:51 AM
Frugal Lizard, in my opinion it is not too political, we are on an election thread after all, in Off Topic. This is useful information.  I for one will head to those sites, thank you for posting.

I was really pissed unhappy when the Conservatives dropped that federally - I knew my vote was getting the Greens some money.  Glad to know it still exists in Ontario, I didn't know it existed at all here.  I thought it was only federal.

PS  I went to http://www.fairdebate.ca/ (http://www.fairdebate.ca/)  and got a server not found message.  Is the web site address slightly different?  It isn't fairdebate.com, that goes to a US web site.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on March 21, 2018, 11:33:24 AM
Frugal Lizard, in my opinion it is not too political, we are on an election thread after all, in Off Topic. This is useful information.  I for one will head to those sites, thank you for posting.

I was really pissed unhappy when the Conservatives dropped that federally - I knew my vote was getting the Greens some money.  Glad to know it still exists in Ontario, I didn't know it existed at all here.  I thought it was only federal.

PS  I went to http://www.fairdebate.ca/ (http://www.fairdebate.ca/)  and got a server not found message.  Is the web site address slightly different?  It isn't fairdebate.com, that goes to a US web site.
It is not easy to search and I thought perhaps posting a link would be against the rules.  Here is the information page.  The petition is on change.org
https://fairdebates.ca/
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on March 21, 2018, 02:19:53 PM
Frugal Lizard, in my opinion it is not too political, we are on an election thread after all, in Off Topic. This is useful information.  I for one will head to those sites, thank you for posting.

I was really pissed unhappy when the Conservatives dropped that federally - I knew my vote was getting the Greens some money.  Glad to know it still exists in Ontario, I didn't know it existed at all here.  I thought it was only federal.

PS  I went to http://www.fairdebate.ca/ (http://www.fairdebate.ca/)  and got a server not found message.  Is the web site address slightly different?  It isn't fairdebate.com, that goes to a US web site.
It is not easy to search and I thought perhaps posting a link would be against the rules.  Here is the information page.  The petition is on change.org
https://fairdebates.ca/

Thanks - Found them! Signed the petition.  I have often actually gone online and read party platforms, but they are not always totally informative, more along the lines of motherhood and apple pie (or for Canada should that be butter tarts?).  Debates matter.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on March 21, 2018, 02:48:08 PM
Frugal Lizard, in my opinion it is not too political, we are on an election thread after all, in Off Topic. This is useful information.  I for one will head to those sites, thank you for posting.

I was really pissed unhappy when the Conservatives dropped that federally - I knew my vote was getting the Greens some money.  Glad to know it still exists in Ontario, I didn't know it existed at all here.  I thought it was only federal.

PS  I went to http://www.fairdebate.ca/ (http://www.fairdebate.ca/)  and got a server not found message.  Is the web site address slightly different?  It isn't fairdebate.com, that goes to a US web site.
It is not easy to search and I thought perhaps posting a link would be against the rules.  Here is the information page.  The petition is on change.org
https://fairdebates.ca/

Thanks - Found them! Signed the petition.  I have often actually gone online and read party platforms, but they are not always totally informative, more along the lines of motherhood and apple pie (or for Canada should that be butter tarts?).  Debates matter.
Thanks - I too find the platforms hard to understand.  When Elizabeth May participated in the televised debate the Green vote went way up. 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on March 21, 2018, 07:43:46 PM
Wynne has started making major spending promises in the run up to the election.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-liberals-vow-to-spend-on-health-child-care-in-last-budget/ (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-liberals-vow-to-spend-on-health-child-care-in-last-budget/)
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-wynne-pledges-21-billion-in-funding-for-mental-health-in-ontario/ (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-wynne-pledges-21-billion-in-funding-for-mental-health-in-ontario/)

This is one of the things politicians do that really piss me off.   Bribe me with my own money to vote for you, is it?

At least they're targeting the spending towards something worthwhile.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on April 10, 2018, 09:00:04 AM
Finally some action.

This is a leaders' debate organized by Operation Black Vote Canada, a non-partisan non-profit that aims to increase political participation by Black Canadians of all ethnicities.  The Jamaican Canadian Association is hosting it.  I saw a poster forit with Kathleen Wynne (Liberal), Andrea Horvath (NDP), and Mike Schreiner (Green).  No Doug Ford.  Does he think he has their vote wrapped up?  Or does he think it is hopeless to get their vote so why bother?

The Black Community Provincial Leaders' Debate is this Wednesday! Didn't register in time? Watch online! The debate will be live streamed on our local media partner @Gbkm_fm YouTube & Facebook pages! You can also listen live at https://t.co/E1sJjrM06B or on the TuneIn Radio app! pic.twitter.com/UVYZeeO33w
    ó Jamaican Canadian Association (@JCA_Ontario) April 9, 2018
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on May 15, 2018, 03:37:53 PM
Most of the nominations are done.

I thought this was interesting.  I'm off to see where they slot me.

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/home (https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/home)

ETA about where I expected.  Need to find out our candidates, I have seen very few lawn signs so far.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on May 15, 2018, 04:18:17 PM
Most of the nominations are done.

I thought this was interesting.  I'm off to see where they slot me.

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/home (https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/home)

ETA about where I expected.  Need to find out our candidates, I have seen very few lawn signs so far.
My result wasn't a surprise.  Green
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Canadian Ben on May 15, 2018, 04:36:22 PM
I'm a Green PC.

Awkward meetings.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on May 15, 2018, 04:41:03 PM
Most of the nominations are done.

I thought this was interesting.  I'm off to see where they slot me.

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/home (https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/home)

ETA about where I expected.  Need to find out our candidates, I have seen very few lawn signs so far.

About a dozen sprouted on my walk to the supermarket this weekend (Sunday, I think). All PC.

Suffice it to say, where I am will stay Blue.

Even last Federal election we stayed Conservative with the absolutely awful Cheryl Gallant.

Edit: Just did the 'test'. I am virtually smack bang in the middle of the graph. Seriously.

Ah it's all bullshit. I wish there were no parties, and you could talk to an individual human being that wasn't being lobbied by god knows who.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on May 15, 2018, 05:07:24 PM
Ah it's all bullshit. I wish there were no parties, and you could talk to an individual human being that wasn't being lobbied by god knows who.

So much this.

I am basically at the point where within my possible choice of parties I am going to vote by candidate.  My riding is not exactly a "swing" riding but it is not immovable either.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 15, 2018, 05:48:10 PM
Hard to believe that we're on track to make the less likable brother of our crack smoking mayor our new premier.  Ford more years.  :P
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Canadian Ben on May 15, 2018, 05:50:50 PM
Ford-finity years.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on May 16, 2018, 03:30:29 PM
Ford for PM!    Replace Andrew Scheer and the redoubtable Stephen Harper who says:   
Quote
ďI could have wielded a lot more power. I think I probably could still easily be leader of my party if I wanted to. I mean, Iím de facto the founder of my party,Ē

I just had to get that off of my chest.   Bad memories of the Harper years.   Yech, I think I got some on my shirt.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: techwiz on May 16, 2018, 07:57:52 PM
https://nota.ca/candidates/ (https://nota.ca/candidates/)

The "None of the Above" party has candidates in (57%) of the ridings and counting. There is now someone running in my riding so I might be giving them my vote.   
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: jambongris on May 17, 2018, 06:58:46 AM
https://nota.ca/candidates/ (https://nota.ca/candidates/)

The "None of the Above" party has candidates in (57%) of the ridings and counting. There is now someone running in my riding so I might be giving them my vote.   

There’s one in my riding; I keep seeing their signs. Do they have an actual platform?

Their initialism, NOTA, can also be read as the “NOTA Party” or “not a party”. Nice little play on words.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: jambongris on May 17, 2018, 07:05:35 AM
https://nota.ca/candidates/ (https://nota.ca/candidates/)

The "None of the Above" party has candidates in (57%) of the ridings and counting. There is now someone running in my riding so I might be giving them my vote.   

Their website is pretty lean. They seem pretty big on referendums and direct democracy though which I worry would bog down the legislative process. I think direct democracy would work better at lower levels of government.

I can’t imagine the level of voter fatigue and apathy if people were expected to vote on every proposed bill. Developing an informed opinion on each of them would be very time-consuming. Isn’t that why we elect representatives?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 17, 2018, 07:14:13 AM
I think I'm going to vote green again.  They have a pretty reasonable platform, full of ideas that sound like they have a decent shot of working.  Which likely means that they've got no hope.  :P
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on May 17, 2018, 08:41:36 AM
I think I'm going to vote green again.  They have a pretty reasonable platform, full of ideas that sound like they have a decent shot of working.  Which likely means that they've got no hope.  :P
I am hoping that they have a hope this election of winning at least a seat.  Their priorities are a good place to start having a conversation about where we need to go. One part of their platform that I would really like to see implemented is the resource extraction rate. Right now we don't get much in the way of royalties for resources.  The GPO would raise the rates so that the public benefit is 10%.  Currently there is some funny accounting that some mineral extractors pay a royalty but get so many tax credits that the net result is very little money going into the public coffers.  Saskatchewan gets way more money than Ontario for mineral extraction.  And it is not like the mining company can pack up and move to another jurisdiction.  I would hate to see all the buried wealth in the ring of fire not actually benefit Ontarians and particularly the indigenous communities living in the area with boil water advisories.  I don't see it in their 9 priorities for this election though.  I guess they are saving that for later.  Too much needs fixing right away.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on May 17, 2018, 02:54:47 PM
Re resources - our pollution standards are also way more lax than either the US (!) or the EU.  And when they are violated, we slap on little fines (well, little in regard to what these companies are making) and they just keep on going.  I think of us as a "third world country with educated labour" for foreign companies. 

Relevant - the Liberal candidate in my riding is a mayor who is in favour of a big heavy industry development downwind and downstream of his municipality, but voted against a much less polluting development (stinkier though) in his area.  Not voting for him.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on May 17, 2018, 05:28:48 PM
Re resources - our pollution standards are also way more lax than either the US (!) or the EU.  And when they are violated, we slap on little fines (well, little in regard to what these companies are making) and they just keep on going.  I think of us as a "third world country with educated labour" for foreign companies. 

Relevant - the Liberal candidate in my riding is a mayor who is in favour of a big heavy industry development downwind and downstream of his municipality, but voted against a much less polluting development (stinkier though) in his area.  Not voting for him.
And the cap and trade exempts 150 of the worst polluting companies from complying.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on May 18, 2018, 07:44:42 AM
Re resources - our pollution standards are also way more lax than either the US (!) or the EU.  And when they are violated, we slap on little fines (well, little in regard to what these companies are making) and they just keep on going.  I think of us as a "third world country with educated labour" for foreign companies. 

Relevant - the Liberal candidate in my riding is a mayor who is in favour of a big heavy industry development downwind and downstream of his municipality, but voted against a much less polluting development (stinkier though) in his area.  Not voting for him.
And the cap and trade exempts 150 of the worst polluting companies from complying.

Short term gain, long term pain - they have no foresight. Environmentally that leaves the NDP and the Green.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on May 18, 2018, 07:58:39 AM
Re resources - our pollution standards are also way more lax than either the US (!) or the EU.  And when they are violated, we slap on little fines (well, little in regard to what these companies are making) and they just keep on going.  I think of us as a "third world country with educated labour" for foreign companies. 

Relevant - the Liberal candidate in my riding is a mayor who is in favour of a big heavy industry development downwind and downstream of his municipality, but voted against a much less polluting development (stinkier though) in his area.  Not voting for him.
And the cap and trade exempts 150 of the worst polluting companies from complying.

Short term gain, long term pain - they have no foresight. Environmentally that leaves the NDP and the Green.
But unfortunately the NDP's environmental plan leaves a lot to be desired as well.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: meghan88 on May 18, 2018, 05:20:37 PM
I think Green is the way to go. While I always worry that it's a wasted vote, it would be nice to vote FOR something for a change, rather than casting a defensive vote to keep someone out.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on May 18, 2018, 08:01:00 PM
I'm not sure.   My local Green candidate seems very young.   https://gpo.ca/candidate/patrick-freel/ (https://gpo.ca/candidate/patrick-freel/)

But it would be nice to vote for something instead of against something.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on May 19, 2018, 07:16:22 AM
Those young NDP federal MPs that came in on the Orange wave (Jack Layton) have worked hard and done OK as MPs.  MGreen candidate is middle aged, got his green roots in cottage country (so did I).  Daniel Reid.  Yes, it is nicer to vote for than against.  Nice if votes mean something.  Time to start bugging the feds about election reforms again and get rid of this first past the post garbage, where our Green (or whatever) votes count for nothing if our candidate doesn't get in.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on May 22, 2018, 03:29:05 PM
The Orange guys want to spend an awful lot of money they don't have.   It's starting to look like minority government territory - the only bright spot in this terrible election.

(https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/raw_2wub_ontario-election-2.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&strip=all)
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Canadian Ben on May 23, 2018, 05:32:11 AM
Will it though? Seems like NDP are too spread out according to what I've read. When you look at polls that list seat numbers, it leans a lot more PC than NDP.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on May 23, 2018, 06:31:02 AM
I am wondering what will happen now that the NDP have admitted the 1.5 billion error in their calculations?   It was a big projected deficit before. 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: oneyearfromnow on May 27, 2018, 06:39:23 PM


Watching the debate tonight, Kathleen and Andrea made some great points and facts, Doug seemed interested in platitudes.  Doug, I am not your friend.

Mercifully, the Liberal and NDP candidates in my riding have the most credibility, perhaps a function of transparency.**   I watched a youtube debate** in our riding, and will be going to our local debate tomorrow night.  I hope to see someone really show why I should vote for them. I dont believe in holding my nose.

**oddly enough, the Communist Party Candidate seemed more prepared than the PC candidate in this debate.  Full Transparency - this riding has only ever been Liberal or NDP.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on May 28, 2018, 02:57:41 AM
I think I'm actually going to vote NDP. I was planning on voting Conservative before Ford became leader, but he is a populist nutjob of exactly the kind we - and everyone - does not need.

I really dislike most self-serving union stuff, I dislike tax and spend, but I'm behind better health coverage for everyone.

Electricity prices I don't know. The Liberal borrow-on-your-behalf-to-lower-prices thing is just ludicrous, when it expires we're going to be in a massive mess (especially as electric cars will be sucking up more and more power). Baffling.

I didn't watch the debate, as I'm not at home at the moment.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 28, 2018, 07:54:25 AM
It's kinda weird that the election is two weeks away and the Conservatives have chosen not to tell people what their platform will be.  Vote for us!!! We promise to _______!
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: meghan88 on May 28, 2018, 11:09:49 AM
These days, democracy seems worse off than ever ...
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Canadian Ben on May 28, 2018, 11:41:50 AM
I'd accept a rational platform without details, like we will make things better while being totally transparent. This will include cuts to some portions that will be assessed as superfluous, and increases to areas of need.

I don't accept: WE WILL MAKE THINGS BETTER BY DOING BETTER. We will not cut anything, but everything will cost less. MAGIC.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: techwiz on May 28, 2018, 11:53:16 AM
I agree not having a well thought out and public platform is hurting the PC party. I guess the strategy of not having one is to limit risk. One less thing the other parties can attack.

I am still thinking about the line Doug Ford said in the debate "Who would you rather give your wallet too" ..... 

I don't want to give it to any party!
 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 28, 2018, 12:37:20 PM
The very close brother of that mayor who was the subject of a criminal investigation, was high on crack cocaine and associating with gang members while in office!  The guy who keeps ranting about how terrible sex ed is for children, and doesn't believe in climate change.

Yeah, that's who I want to give my wallet to.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: meghan88 on May 28, 2018, 01:28:33 PM
The very close brother of that mayor who was the subject of a criminal investigation, was high on crack cocaine and associating with gang members while in office!  The guy who keeps ranting about how terrible sex ed is for children, and doesn't believe in climate change.

Yeah, that's who I want to give my wallet to.

He is indeed the worst.  Here in KW we've had a number of PC incumbents at the federal and provincial levels who are tub-thumping holier-than-thou pro-lifers.  The tide started turning a few years ago.  But there are no good choices with any party this time around.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on May 28, 2018, 03:43:30 PM
Our local PC candidate seems ok.   I'm not happy with Doug Ford though.   What the hell, why couldn't they have picked Christine Elliot?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on May 29, 2018, 02:42:52 AM
Our local PC candidate seems ok.   I'm not happy with Doug Ford though.   What the hell, why couldn't they have picked Christine Elliot?

That's the problem with identity politics. We're in a true blue area, I think our incumbent provincial guy has been in forever. I haven't heard anything about him, either good or bad (unlike our federal MP, she's awful).

I will be voting to keep Ford out rather than anything else. Not that it'll do anything where I am.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 01, 2018, 12:43:12 PM
This time next week we will have a new government.  So soon!  It feels like the campaigning just started.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: SoftwareGoddess on June 01, 2018, 01:40:51 PM
I've noticed that in my immediate neighborhood, there are almost no lawn signs on private property, which is unusual this close to an election. I've seen 2 Liberal signs (incumbent candidate is Liberal) and one Green.

I take it to mean that the whole riding is still pretty much undecided.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 01, 2018, 02:26:28 PM
I've noticed that in my immediate neighborhood, there are almost no lawn signs on private property, which is unusual this close to an election. I've seen 2 Liberal signs (incumbent candidate is Liberal) and one Green.

I take it to mean that the whole riding is still pretty much undecided.

We have very few as well.  It's as if the election were in early July, not early June.  Almost no-one is talking about it.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: techwiz on June 01, 2018, 03:12:43 PM
I've noticed that in my immediate neighborhood, there are almost no lawn signs on private property, which is unusual this close to an election. I've seen 2 Liberal signs (incumbent candidate is Liberal) and one Green.

I take it to mean that the whole riding is still pretty much undecided.

We have very few as well.  It's as if the election were in early July, not early June.  Almost no-one is talking about it.
I agree.

I talked about it a lunch with a few co-workers and they didn't even know the date was next week June 7th, one co-worker was sure it was June 14th.... required a Google search to verify.
https://www.elections.on.ca/en.html (https://www.elections.on.ca/en.html)

Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 01, 2018, 03:31:25 PM
I've noticed that in my immediate neighborhood, there are almost no lawn signs on private property, which is unusual this close to an election. I've seen 2 Liberal signs (incumbent candidate is Liberal) and one Green.

I take it to mean that the whole riding is still pretty much undecided.

We have very few as well.  It's as if the election were in early July, not early June.  Almost no-one is talking about it.
I agree.

I talked about it a lunch with a few co-workers and they didn't even know the date was next week June 7th, one co-worker was sure it was June 14th.... required a Google search to verify.
https://www.elections.on.ca/en.html (https://www.elections.on.ca/en.html)

I have my voter's card - June 7. 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on June 01, 2018, 08:55:35 PM
I voted last weekend.  Lots of signs in my area.  I am hoping that it is a good turn out. 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 02, 2018, 06:27:12 PM
You can blame Prospector for posting something from this website.  Look at the goodie funny I found  ;-)

https://outabouter.com/2018/05/23/ford-down-to-reminding-everyone-that-if-elected-he-will-not-run-for-mayor-of-toronto/ (https://outabouter.com/2018/05/23/ford-down-to-reminding-everyone-that-if-elected-he-will-not-run-for-mayor-of-toronto/)
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on June 02, 2018, 07:24:15 PM
You can blame Prospector for posting something from this website.  Look at the goodie funny I found  ;-)

https://outabouter.com/2018/05/23/ford-down-to-reminding-everyone-that-if-elected-he-will-not-run-for-mayor-of-toronto/ (https://outabouter.com/2018/05/23/ford-down-to-reminding-everyone-that-if-elected-he-will-not-run-for-mayor-of-toronto/)

ROFL
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: meghan88 on June 03, 2018, 04:37:25 PM
You can blame Prospector for posting something from this website.  Look at the goodie funny I found  ;-)

https://outabouter.com/2018/05/23/ford-down-to-reminding-everyone-that-if-elected-he-will-not-run-for-mayor-of-toronto/ (https://outabouter.com/2018/05/23/ford-down-to-reminding-everyone-that-if-elected-he-will-not-run-for-mayor-of-toronto/)

ROFL

ROF crying.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: SoftwareGoddess on June 04, 2018, 12:07:39 PM
Lawn Sign Watch, 2018 Edition, continues:

Some more Liberal signs have appeared, and I noticed that they are quite numerous in the neighboring riding. Back in my riding, there is a sudden surge in NDP signs, with a smattering of PC.

Overall, still relatively few signs, but perhaps people have realized that the election is happening whether or not they are ready for it.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on June 04, 2018, 05:57:56 PM
Lawn Sign Watch, 2018 Edition, continues:

Some more Liberal signs have appeared, and I noticed that they are quite numerous in the neighboring riding. Back in my riding, there is a sudden surge in NDP signs, with a smattering of PC.

Overall, still relatively few signs, but perhaps people have realized that the election is happening whether or not they are ready for it.

Just went to Ottawa and back. Not down town though, along Hunt Club mostly.

Lots of PC. Very few NDP. 5 Green next to each other. This is all along the side of the road, I guess it's a main commuting road.

Amazing how wasteful - so so so so many copies of the same PC sign every 5-10 metres.

I drove the other way on Sunday, out to Renfrew. Same deal - mostly blue signs. The odd Liberal, and literally 1 or 2 NDP.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 05, 2018, 06:41:34 AM
More breaking news:
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/06/04/rob-fords-widow-sues-doug-ford-alleging-he-has-deprived-them-of-millions.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/06/04/rob-fords-widow-sues-doug-ford-alleging-he-has-deprived-them-of-millions.html)
https://ipolitics.ca/2018/06/04/doug-ford-acford-accuses-sister-in-law-of-taking-advantage-of-election-timing-with-16m-lawsuit/ (https://ipolitics.ca/2018/06/04/doug-ford-acford-accuses-sister-in-law-of-taking-advantage-of-election-timing-with-16m-lawsuit/)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/brampton-north-pc-candidate-ripudaman-dhillon-lawsuits-1.4690320 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/brampton-north-pc-candidate-ripudaman-dhillon-lawsuits-1.4690320)


My biggest fear right now is that the Liberals and NDP will split votes and PC candidates with low actual vote numbers will get in.  Because who wants a provincial premier with Ford's characteristics?
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on June 05, 2018, 07:20:40 AM
@RetiredAt63 - this is precisely why we need proportional representation.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 05, 2018, 07:23:09 AM
@RetiredAt63 - this is precisely why we need proportional representation.

OOOOOH, I know - and I want it.  Federally and provincially.  Then I could vote Green first, NDP second, and NOTA third.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on June 05, 2018, 07:30:21 AM
@RetiredAt63 - this is precisely why we need proportional representation.

OOOOOH, I know - and I want it.  Federally and provincially.  Then I could vote Green first, NDP second, and NOTA third.
I completely stopped voting strategically about 15 years ago.  And looking back, provincial and federal results have never elected my choice ever since I started voting 30 years.  I now vote for the candidate that is best capable with the platform that aligns most closely.   And unfortunately never gets in.  But I remain hopeful.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: oneyearfromnow on June 05, 2018, 08:06:40 AM
Frugal Lizard, I have the same view on voting.  I always vote for the candidate who I feel will do their very best to represent the riding.  Regardless of party.

I cannot in good conscience hold my nose and vote for a jerk, just because I may respect their leader.

Some times I have selected the winning candidate.  Over my voting years I have voted for the four main parties.

My riding has an incumbant Liberal, and a socially active NDP.   In the two debates I watched, both performed well, answered the questions, and presented as aware, and competent.  I would be happy with either as my MPP.   

In the second debate, the NDP candidate stated a couple of things that gave him an edge over the Liberal Incumbant. 

Namely,
a)  widening the 417 is ludacris given the investment in the LRT.  That money should have gone towards further improvement in public transit, and /or reduction in fares to increase ridership.  Ottawa has a ridiculously high fare.  Indeed!

b) Developers should be forced to make a proportion of their housing developments available for low to middle income renters.  Also, more public space.  He specifically mentioned that a Condo developer that built right beside a tiny, but well used library, should have been told that they would get their permissions, but they will have a new first floor tenant - a library expansion.  Missed opportunity!  Vancouver has rules about making public spaces in all new developments. 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on June 05, 2018, 09:24:06 AM
@RetiredAt63 - this is precisely why we need proportional representation.

OOOOOH, I know - and I want it.  Federally and provincially.  Then I could vote Green first, NDP second, and NOTA third.

That's not PR, that's ranked voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting (Edit: I was racking my brain to remember the term I knew, and it wasn't this - it was STV, Single Transferrable Vote, where your vote goes from your first to second to third choice as your earlier picks are eliminated).

PR is just seats = share of popular vote. Less likely to have majorities. Also difficult to determine who represents where/how you pick who is elected (as you are presumably voting for the party). (Not that I'm against either, but FPTP is 'easy' in a lot of ways, and PR is 'hard').
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: oneyearfromnow on June 05, 2018, 05:59:39 PM
@RetiredAt63 - this is precisely why we need proportional representation.

OOOOOH, I know - and I want it.  Federally and provincially.  Then I could vote Green first, NDP second, and NOTA third.

That's not PR, that's ranked voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting (Edit: I was racking my brain to remember the term I knew, and it wasn't this - it was STV, Single Transferrable Vote, where your vote goes from your first to second to third choice as your earlier picks are eliminated).

PR is just seats = share of popular vote. Less likely to have majorities. Also difficult to determine who represents where/how you pick who is elected (as you are presumably voting for the party). (Not that I'm against either, but FPTP is 'easy' in a lot of ways, and PR is 'hard').

Regarding ranked ballots.....that is how you get everyones second choice 😳  Or, as I enjoy saying... ďEveryones Number 2Ē

Two surprise winners for the conservatives, federally and provincially.   I suppose federally Mr Scheer has been doing OK, which I feel is a function of the large pool of candidates running.  Provincially with only 4 running, a different result. 

Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 06, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
TOMORROW!!!!!                                  TOMORROW!!!!!                                  TOMORROW!!!!!
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: meghan88 on June 06, 2018, 02:59:21 PM
TOMORROW!!!!!                                  TOMORROW!!!!!                                  TOMORROW!!!!!
Yes, and we are all going to wake up with mammoth hangovers on Friday, no matter what happens.  What with the temperature here this week, I may just stay in bed with the covers pulled over my head.

Thinking that we get such poor candidates these days because politics has become such a thankless job.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on June 06, 2018, 07:16:57 PM
Doug Ford majority.

You heard it here first folks.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on June 06, 2018, 07:39:41 PM
Doug Ford majority.

You heard it here first folks.

yup - the least of the evils.

What's your exit strategy?

When we elected a Ford here in TO, his crack buddies hooked him up often enough that he killed himself before the end of his term.  It only cost us billions of dollars of wasted money cancelling shovel ready transit plans and replacing them with . . . nothing.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: oneyearfromnow on June 06, 2018, 09:09:05 PM
Really?

Does the public really want this guy? ( has anyone else linked to this?)  https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/?error_code=4201&error_message=User+canceled+the+Dialog+flow#_=_ (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/?error_code=4201&error_message=User+canceled+the+Dialog+flow#_=_)

Article originally published in 2013, updated April 2018.

There was a CBC noon hour show a week or so ago.  where one of the callers said she bought hash from Doug.  Rita said it was an allegation, and the caller said no way, its the truth - I bought hash from him.    I had to giggle.


ETA he is apparently against safe-injection sites too.   Hello Pot?  This is Kettle!
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Frugal Lizard on June 07, 2018, 03:57:08 AM
Really?

Does the public really want this guy? ( has anyone else linked to this?)  https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/?error_code=4201&error_message=User+canceled+the+Dialog+flow#_=_ (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/?error_code=4201&error_message=User+canceled+the+Dialog+flow#_=_)

Article originally published in 2013, updated April 2018.

There was a CBC noon hour show a week or so ago.  where one of the callers said she bought hash from Doug.  Rita said it was an allegation, and the caller said no way, its the truth - I bought hash from him.    I had to giggle.


ETA he is apparently against safe-injection sites too.   Hello Pot?  This is Kettle!
I have friends who grew up in East Mississauga.   They all swear it is a well known fact to go to Druggie Ford for your needs when they were in high school and university.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on June 07, 2018, 04:57:06 AM
Doug Ford majority.

You heard it here first folks.

yup - the least of the evils.

What's your exit strategy?

Planning on moving... to Alberta. Not, obviously, for political reasons. That's just a bonus, though by the time we do it there will probably be Conservatives there. But - not Doug Ford conservatives.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: meghan88 on June 07, 2018, 07:51:35 AM
Doug Ford majority.

You heard it here first folks.

yup - the least of the evils.

What's your exit strategy?

Planning on moving... to Alberta. Not, obviously, for political reasons. That's just a bonus, though by the time we do it there will probably be Conservatives there. But - not Doug Ford conservatives.

Moving to Montreal in a year or so.  We'll enjoy a different kind of political morass, but at least the restaurants, cycling infrastructure, public transit are all world-class.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Ottawa on June 07, 2018, 07:57:29 AM
Ack!  GuitarStv is likely right...I think the likelihood of a Conservative majority is around 87% at present.  I get the general sense from talking with friends/colleagues/gym buddies etc that nobody really has a strong sense about what to do with their vote.  People are either picking the least party evil, or are voting for their riding irrespective of their disdain of the party leader.  I'm still wavering on whether to vote local or protest vote or pick least of evil parties.  I suspect many are in this predicament.  For this reason, there is a possibility that the 87% probability of PC Majority may be misleading. 
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on June 07, 2018, 09:07:09 AM
Well, I voted. Quite quiet but I don't know what I was expecting at 10:30am!

I'm interested to know how soon we'll know the results after polling closes, with these ballot scanning machines!
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Shinplaster on June 07, 2018, 01:13:05 PM
The ballot scanners were not working properly at our polling station.  It took them over half an hour to get one ballot scanned.  This does not bode well for anyone voting when there are more than 2 people there.

Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 07, 2018, 03:19:06 PM
I voted.  The polling station was well marked (signed?) from the street. It had an elevator so no access issues. We had 4 tables (2 for people with cards, 2 for those without) and a help table.  4 voting stations.  Our scanner was working fine.

There were no lineups but we were a steady stream of people.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 07, 2018, 05:51:52 PM
DD and her SO are voting right now.  It will be interesting to see if the younger voters turn out in greater numbers than in previous elections.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on June 07, 2018, 07:40:54 PM
PC- 1.1 million votes - projected 74 seats

NDP - 1 million votes - projected 37 seats

Yeah, FPTP is silly.

Libs - 0.5 mil votes - projected 8 seats.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 08, 2018, 06:13:08 AM
Doug Ford majority.

You heard it here first folks.

yup - the least of the evils.

What's your exit strategy?

When we elected a Ford here in TO, his crack buddies hooked him up often enough that he killed himself before the end of his term.  It only cost us billions of dollars of wasted money cancelling shovel ready transit plans and replacing them with . . . nothing.

I did not vote for Doug, I voted for his team - I reckon a lot of people did.  ;)

The problem is, "the team" has less and less power in Canadian politics (federally and provincially), and the leader of the winning party has more and more.  So his team is going to have relatively little say.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: GuitarStv on June 08, 2018, 07:00:55 AM
Ontarians took a good long look at Rob Ford and Donald Trump last night . . . and said 'Yes, please!  I want some more of that.'

On the plus side, now that they have a majority government maybe the party of fiscal responsibility will deign to allow us humble voters to learn how they're planning to pay for all of the things they said they were going to do.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: Shinplaster on June 08, 2018, 07:51:44 AM
Doug Ford majority.

You heard it here first folks.

yup - the least of the evils.

What's your exit strategy?

When we elected a Ford here in TO, his crack buddies hooked him up often enough that he killed himself before the end of his term.  It only cost us billions of dollars of wasted money cancelling shovel ready transit plans and replacing them with . . . nothing.

I did not vote for Doug, I voted for his team - I reckon a lot of people did.  ;)

The problem is, "the team" has less and less power in Canadian politics (federally and provincially), and the leader of the winning party has more and more.  So his team is going to have relatively little say.

Yup.  I am not surprised, given what I have heard from friends, overheard while I was out, etc.  I am just depressed.  My only hope now is that it's proven he bought votes for the leadership, and they turf him out as leader.   Because yes, you DID essentially vote for Doug Ford,  and the rest of us will have to live with the consequences.   He has never been a collaborative person - what would make anyone think that will magically change once he holds power?   

Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: meghan88 on June 08, 2018, 08:38:03 AM
Ontarians took a good long look at Rob Ford and Donald Trump last night . . . and said 'Yes, please!  I want some more of that.'

On the plus side, now that they have a majority government maybe the party of fiscal responsibility will deign to allow us humble voters to learn how they're planning to pay for all of the things they said they were going to do.

Can't wait.  Oink oink oink, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 09, 2018, 08:21:43 AM
The Beaverton gets it:

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/06/good-fucking-luck-ontario/ (https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/06/good-fucking-luck-ontario/)
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: rocketpj on June 09, 2018, 11:10:36 AM
Planning on moving... to Alberta. Not, obviously, for political reasons. That's just a bonus, though by the time we do it there will probably be Conservatives there. But - not Doug Ford conservatives.

I'm not thinking that Jason Kenney Conservatives are going to be much fun - what with their Wildrose faction and apparent inability to do math.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: scottish on June 09, 2018, 11:45:34 AM
Conservatives have never been able to do math.   I don't think it's on their curriculum!
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: meghan88 on June 09, 2018, 12:20:06 PM
The Beaverton gets it:

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/06/good-fucking-luck-ontario/ (https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/06/good-fucking-luck-ontario/)

So does John Milloy.  He's written a thoughtful piece (minus the satire) that's worth reading, however you voted:  https://www.pressreader.com/canada/waterloo-region-record/20180609/281702615413250
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: RetiredAt63 on June 09, 2018, 12:38:33 PM
The Beaverton gets it:

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/06/good-fucking-luck-ontario/ (https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/06/good-fucking-luck-ontario/)

So does John Milloy.  He's written a thoughtful piece (minus the satire) that's worth reading, however you voted:  https://www.pressreader.com/canada/waterloo-region-record/20180609/281702615413250

That was a good piece.  Very realistic.
Title: Re: Ontario general election - what to do?
Post by: daverobev on June 09, 2018, 12:46:59 PM
Planning on moving... to Alberta. Not, obviously, for political reasons. That's just a bonus, though by the time we do it there will probably be Conservatives there. But - not Doug Ford conservatives.

I'm not thinking that Jason Kenney Conservatives are going to be much fun - what with their Wildrose faction and apparent inability to do math.

You're right. I have changed my mind - I'm off back to the UK.

Brexit, eh. Oh well.