Ontario budget and Canadian public debt

[scottish]

I was disappointed to read the the Ontario government wants to go back to deficit spending after finally balancing the budget.

Then I was even more disappointed to read that it's only the 'operating budget' that's balanced.   In fact Ontario public debt was forecast to increase by something like 12B CAD before Charles Sousa proposed to go back to deficit spending.   It's not completely clear what's being excluded.   One site said that interest payments were not included.   Another site said that infrastructure expenditures are not included.

Similarly, the government likes to speak of net debt - this is total debt after subtracting the value of government owned assets.    Sometimes the assets are financial assets and sometimes they are all assets.    I think this is wrong.   If the debt is providing an investment return, that's fine, but it's still debt, dammit!

I find all this very disingenuous.   IANAA  (I am not an account), but I think the budget should be tracking outgoing cash flows against incoming cash flows.    The balance sheet should distinguish between total debt, different types of assets, net debt and so on.    I'm not very interested in artificial constructs like capital cost allowances because the province is not a business!   It doesn't create wealth, it consumes wealth.   It doesn't pay taxes, it collects taxes.   Nobody is assessing it's value in terms of whether to own part of the province.   Well.   Maybe potential bond owners.

Getting our political classes to actually balance the budget is probably like trying to stop the tide from coming in.   But I'm not ready to give up yet.
Is anyone aware of a place where we can find accurate information on public debt in Canada?

[RetiredAt63]

Beats me. 

None of the main parties seem to truly be fiscally conservative, the Conservatives least of all.  I understand that economists think the financial guidelines for governments are not the same as for individuals are not the same as for corporations.  Huh?

A couple of federal elections ago I read all the party platforms, and the Green Party was the most fiscally conservative.  Because basically being Green means conserving resources, not being wasteful, and that includes money.  But we will never get to see how they would manage our money, because they don't have enough influence.  I know there are very influential Green parties in Europe, but that doesn't guarantee they would be the same here.

Hmm, something to ask the NOTA people?

Because none of the parties are fiscally conservative, that leaves us looking at their social policies.  Spending - where is it going, who benefits?  Tax cuts, who benefits?

[chickinyow]

Well, any party that got elected and showed ACTUAL conservative spending policies would be vastly unpopular and would not stay in power (the only thing that means anything to any politician) for long. Nobody wants their piece of the pie to be cut. Can you imagine spending for your household the way all levels of government spend? Wow!

My view is that all politicians/political parties are basically full of shit. All will waste money. I just try to pick the lesser devil I guess (the party who choose to do their overspending in ways that aligns best with my values).

[okits]

Ontario budget to fund free child care for preschoolers by 2020 as part of $2.2 billion plan
https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/03/27/ontario-budget-to-fund-free-child-care-for-preschoolers-by-2020-as-part-of-22-billion-plan.html

Doubtful this will be implemented (and if it were it would come into action after my kids were too old to benefit from it) but the new free programs would have replaced about $30,000 in childcare costs per kid that we have paid or will be paying.  (Our centre's ECEs earn school board-level pay, so not sure how the province's programs would cost much less unless they ship the kids two hours away where they can get warehouse space for cheap.)

More spots and more income-tested subsidies, sure, but free-for-everyone with pay raises for the workers is just magical thinking.  Vote for us, our money grows on trees!

[GuitarStv]

We paid around 20 grand for a year of pre-school childcare at a licensed childcare place in Toronto.  That is likely to be quite a costly measure if they're serious about implementing it.