Author Topic: Old Bernie is Running  (Read 9183 times)

gentmach

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 311
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2019, 11:23:24 AM »
As much as I like Bernie, Democrats want a more moderate party.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245462/democrats-favor-moderate-party-gop-conservative.aspx

Whether the DNC realizes this in time is the question. Or are they re-running 2016?

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2019, 11:25:02 AM »
As much as I like Bernie, Democrats want a more moderate party.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245462/democrats-favor-moderate-party-gop-conservative.aspx

Whether the DNC realizes this in time is the question. Or are they re-running 2016?

As for your last statement, I don't really get it. The DNC last time chose the moderate over the further left guy. So, how would they be re-running 2016?

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2019, 01:11:21 PM »
I guess a million people have signed up to help old Bernie run for president:

I was forwarded this that Bernie sent out:

"Well, I am happy to share that yesterday Deborah from Brownstown Charter Township in Michigan was the millionth person to add her name and join our fight.

We did it."


It looks like he is off to a good start.


Mississippi Mudstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2158
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Danielsville, GA
    • A Riving Home - Ramblings of a Recusant Woodworker
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2019, 01:44:02 PM »
As much as I like Bernie, Democrats want a more moderate party.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245462/democrats-favor-moderate-party-gop-conservative.aspx

Whether the DNC realizes this in time is the question. Or are they re-running 2016?

As for your last statement, I don't really get it. The DNC last time chose the moderate over the further left guy. So, how would they be re-running 2016?

Hillary didn't lose the election because she was too moderate. She lost the election because she was Hillary.

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2019, 01:54:19 PM »

Hillary didn't lose the election because she was too moderate. She lost the election because she was Hillary.

I think there is a lot of truth to that.  The woman did not seem to exude a lot of warmth.  I got the feeling she was talking down to some of us.  Her "deplorables" comment did not help her at all.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/election-us-2016-37329812/clinton-half-of-trump-supporters-basket-of-deplorables

The electoral college thing also had a lot to do with it.

So what is a moderate?  Quick blurb - "The existence of the ideal moderate is disputed because of a lack of a moderate political ideology. Voters who describe themselves as centrist often mean that they are moderate in their political views, advocating neither extreme left-wing politics nor extreme right-wing politics."

Moderate implies keeping the status quo.

I think a lot of people are ready for positive change. 

Nick_Miller

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 966
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2019, 02:05:46 PM »
I haven't looked into the data but I wonder how folks in the LGBTQ community lean re: the Dems announcing thus far.

Does any other candidate have Bernie's bona fides when it comes to defending and embracing the LGBTQ community? Was anyone else publicly embracing them in the mid 1990s? To me, that speaks a lot to his character.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2019, 02:27:03 PM »
As much as I like Bernie, Democrats want a more moderate party.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245462/democrats-favor-moderate-party-gop-conservative.aspx

Whether the DNC realizes this in time is the question. Or are they re-running 2016?

As for your last statement, I don't really get it. The DNC last time chose the moderate over the further left guy. So, how would they be re-running 2016?

Hillary didn't lose the election because she was too moderate. She lost the election because she was Hillary.

This is not my point, either way. And apparently, it isn't Gentmach's.

Gentmach said that the Democrats need a moderate in 2020. And he said 1) he hopes they realize that, 2) "Or are they re-running 2016?"

My point was, they did run the moderate in 2016. So, statements 1 and 2 seem to be contradictory.

That was why I was asking for clarification.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2019, 02:33:14 PM »
I haven't looked into the data but I wonder how folks in the LGBTQ community lean re: the Dems announcing thus far.

Does any other candidate have Bernie's bona fides when it comes to defending and embracing the LGBTQ community? Was anyone else publicly embracing them in the mid 1990s? To me, that speaks a lot to his character.

Most of the Dem candidates who have announced thus far weren't office holders in the 1990s. I think Bernie's record on this, though admirable, is unusually early because of his age.

gentmach

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 311
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2019, 02:58:48 PM »
As much as I like Bernie, Democrats want a more moderate party.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245462/democrats-favor-moderate-party-gop-conservative.aspx

Whether the DNC realizes this in time is the question. Or are they re-running 2016?

As for your last statement, I don't really get it. The DNC last time chose the moderate over the further left guy. So, how would they be re-running 2016?

Hillary didn't lose the election because she was too moderate. She lost the election because she was Hillary.

This is not my point, either way. And apparently, it isn't Gentmach's.

Gentmach said that the Democrats need a moderate in 2020. And he said 1) he hopes they realize that, 2) "Or are they re-running 2016?"

My point was, they did run the moderate in 2016. So, statements 1 and 2 seem to be contradictory.

That was why I was asking for clarification.

I heard there is a saying that "political campaigns are planned around the last election."

So the polling indicates that democrats want a moderate. But they lost the last election because they ran a moderate. So the rhetorical question is "will the DNC be responsive enough to change or are they going with someone that would have worked in 2016?"

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3022
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2019, 03:16:50 PM »
I think Hillary would have won if she was a white man. They just need to run a white man who is somewhere in the middle and doesn't have horrible morals since the Democrats still care about that.
I would love someone who is competent over someone who is exciting at this point. Someone with some level of past political experience and knowledge. Maybe asking too much?

eta: someone of sound mental health

Other things on my must list,
a) solve the public health crisis that is our status quo by moving to universal health care. It is long overdue and the current situation is a drag on our economy as well as our public health (overall mortality and life expectancy, prenatal care, you name it).
And most of all, a president who acknowledges climate change and makes it one of the main policy priorities. If you are going to declare an emergency, THIS is the emergency.
 
 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 03:25:49 PM by partgypsy »

the_gastropod

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 162
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2019, 03:22:58 PM »
Most of the Dem candidates who have announced thus far weren't office holders in the 1990s. I think Bernie's record on this, though admirable, is unusually early because of his age.

I don't think age is typically with being more progressive :) Bernie, imperfect as he is, I think does deserve some serious credit for his clear thinking with respect to social issues. Even Obama in 2008 did not support gay marriage. Bernie is not your typical politician.

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3022
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2019, 03:27:27 PM »
Well I'm still surprised that gay marriage is now legal. I thought it would take another 10 years.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2019, 03:36:21 PM »
As much as I like Bernie, Democrats want a more moderate party.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245462/democrats-favor-moderate-party-gop-conservative.aspx

Whether the DNC realizes this in time is the question. Or are they re-running 2016?

As for your last statement, I don't really get it. The DNC last time chose the moderate over the further left guy. So, how would they be re-running 2016?

Hillary didn't lose the election because she was too moderate. She lost the election because she was Hillary.

This is not my point, either way. And apparently, it isn't Gentmach's.

Gentmach said that the Democrats need a moderate in 2020. And he said 1) he hopes they realize that, 2) "Or are they re-running 2016?"

My point was, they did run the moderate in 2016. So, statements 1 and 2 seem to be contradictory.

That was why I was asking for clarification.

I heard there is a saying that "political campaigns are planned around the last election."

So the polling indicates that democrats want a moderate. But they lost the last election because they ran a moderate. So the rhetorical question is "will the DNC be responsive enough to change or are they going with someone that would have worked in 2016?"

Hmm. Okay, I didn't get that from your original question.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2019, 03:39:45 PM »
Most of the Dem candidates who have announced thus far weren't office holders in the 1990s. I think Bernie's record on this, though admirable, is unusually early because of his age.

I don't think age is typically with being more progressive :) Bernie, imperfect as he is, I think does deserve some serious credit for his clear thinking with respect to social issues. Even Obama in 2008 did not support gay marriage. Bernie is not your typical politician.

No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that saying "Bernie was for gay rights in 1990s" is awesome, but that it's also partially misleading to compare that particular data point to others, because he's one of the only people who were public figures whose opinion on that subject would have been on record.

It is, indeed, awesome that he was for LGBTQ rights in the 1990s, though. As we know, that was the era of "Don't ask, don't tell," which was seen as a risky thing for a president (Clinton) to say. Doesn't seem very progressive these days, for sure.

gentmach

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 311
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2019, 04:48:02 PM »
As much as I like Bernie, Democrats want a more moderate party.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245462/democrats-favor-moderate-party-gop-conservative.aspx

Whether the DNC realizes this in time is the question. Or are they re-running 2016?

As for your last statement, I don't really get it. The DNC last time chose the moderate over the further left guy. So, how would they be re-running 2016?

Hillary didn't lose the election because she was too moderate. She lost the election because she was Hillary.

This is not my point, either way. And apparently, it isn't Gentmach's.

Gentmach said that the Democrats need a moderate in 2020. And he said 1) he hopes they realize that, 2) "Or are they re-running 2016?"

My point was, they did run the moderate in 2016. So, statements 1 and 2 seem to be contradictory.

That was why I was asking for clarification.

I heard there is a saying that "political campaigns are planned around the last election."

So the polling indicates that democrats want a moderate. But they lost the last election because they ran a moderate. So the rhetorical question is "will the DNC be responsive enough to change or are they going with someone that would have worked in 2016?"

Hmm. Okay, I didn't get that from your original question.

I was on break which led to the brevity.

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2019, 06:03:23 PM »
I think Hillary would have won if she was a white man. They just need to run a white man who is somewhere in the middle and doesn't have horrible morals since the Democrats still care about that.
I would love someone who is competent over someone who is exciting at this point. Someone with some level of past political experience and knowledge. Maybe asking too much?

eta: someone of sound mental health

Other things on my must list,
a) solve the public health crisis that is our status quo by moving to universal health care. It is long overdue and the current situation is a drag on our economy as well as our public health (overall mortality and life expectancy, prenatal care, you name it).
And most of all, a president who acknowledges climate change and makes it one of the main policy priorities. If you are going to declare an emergency, THIS is the emergency.

If Elizabeth Warren had a sex change, would she work for you?

Nick_Miller

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 966
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2019, 07:16:41 AM »
I think Hillary would have won if she was a white man. They just need to run a white man who is somewhere in the middle and doesn't have horrible morals since the Democrats still care about that.
I would love someone who is competent over someone who is exciting at this point. Someone with some level of past political experience and knowledge. Maybe asking too much?

eta: someone of sound mental health

Other things on my must list,
a) solve the public health crisis that is our status quo by moving to universal health care. It is long overdue and the current situation is a drag on our economy as well as our public health (overall mortality and life expectancy, prenatal care, you name it).
And most of all, a president who acknowledges climate change and makes it one of the main policy priorities. If you are going to declare an emergency, THIS is the emergency.

If Elizabeth Warren had a sex change, would she work for you?

The way I read it, they were just saying that a victory was more likely for the Dems if they ran a moderate, non-objectionable white guy. No one (I don't think) is saying that it SHOULD be like that, in a perfect world. I think many Dems/Independents are just trying to figure out the most realistic path to victory. Like it or not, Trump's name-calling ways have racist, ageist, and sexist connotations. A "cool white guy" like Beto might be the most resilient to those attacks.

Personally, I think every aspect of this is up for analysis. We need progress, not necessarily perfection.


wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2019, 07:37:39 AM »
I think Hillary would have won if she was a white man. They just need to run a white man who is somewhere in the middle and doesn't have horrible morals since the Democrats still care about that.
I would love someone who is competent over someone who is exciting at this point. Someone with some level of past political experience and knowledge. Maybe asking too much?

eta: someone of sound mental health

Other things on my must list,
a) solve the public health crisis that is our status quo by moving to universal health care. It is long overdue and the current situation is a drag on our economy as well as our public health (overall mortality and life expectancy, prenatal care, you name it).
And most of all, a president who acknowledges climate change and makes it one of the main policy priorities. If you are going to declare an emergency, THIS is the emergency.

If Elizabeth Warren had a sex change, would she work for you?

The way I read it, they were just saying that a victory was more likely for the Dems if they ran a moderate, non-objectionable white guy. No one (I don't think) is saying that it SHOULD be like that, in a perfect world. I think many Dems/Independents are just trying to figure out the most realistic path to victory. Like it or not, Trump's name-calling ways have racist, ageist, and sexist connotations. A "cool white guy" like Beto might be the most resilient to those attacks.

Personally, I think every aspect of this is up for analysis. We need progress, not necessarily perfection.

Yup. I'm sure partygypsy is happy with Warren the way she is. 

I think (barring huge skeletons in closet issue) that a ticket of e.g., O'Rourke/Harris or Biden/Warren etc would blast Trump out of the water.  I'm less confident of other other types of 'identity' combos, though I admit in the preliminary going I'm definitely inclined to back Harris or Warren.  However, if my primary vote ends up mattering (doubtful), I will weigh likelihood of election over ALL other criteria.   

But then, I'm not a purist.  I wish our primary system wasn't set up to overvalue the votes of the fringe-positions of both parties.

Nick_Miller

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 966
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2019, 07:51:37 AM »
We probably need to turn this back to Bernie to keep from getting too off topic.

Bernie has raised like $10M in one week and he has a ton of monthly contributors set up.

Unless Biden throws his hat in the ring (which I think gets more unlikely as the weeks and months pass), Bernie seems to be the front-runner, and he's going to have more cash than anyone. I wonder when the other Dems will start attacking him. I mean, if they want to win, they can't afford to let him get a gigantic $ advantage.

YttriumNitrate

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 532
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2019, 07:56:46 AM »
Ok, now that he's in, might as well jump the shark and *really* go for it. Pick AOC for VP Bern. I dare ya!
He couldnít do that if he wanted to. An VP candidate must also be qualified to be president. As she is 29 years of age, she would not qualify. Itís the same reason a former president who already served two terms cannot be a VP, like Obama or Bush. You probably shouldíve paid attention in high school government class.
The 12th amendment states that "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States" while the 22nd states "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once." While the 12th speaks to eligibility to become president, the 22nd references "elected." A plain reading of the constitution seems to indicate that a Bernie/Obama ticket in 2020 would be fine since Obama wouldn't be elected for a third term as president, although I'm sure there would be a visit or two to the Supreme Court along the way.

fuzzy math

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 825
  • Age: 37
  • Location: PNW ---> Midwest (for now)
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2019, 07:58:03 AM »
Reading this thread brought up a thought I hadn't considered before - perhaps Bernie is running not with the expectation to win, but with the expectation to help drive policy for the future. Its not that dissimilar to him entering the field in 2016 to at least provide an option and some debate for the D party.

Think of all the disaffected people from 2016 who need to be engaged to make 2020 work. Now imagine Bernie not running. There are 17 people in the field. A bunch are going to rise to the top and I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that recycled candidates do terribly. Let the man drive policy and I bet he will gracefully bow out and back a worthy nominee.

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2019, 08:00:00 AM »
As much as I like Bernie, Democrats want a more moderate party.
Huh?
I don't see a huge establishment want for someone more left than Sanders.

Nick_Miller

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 966
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2019, 08:08:37 AM »
Reading this thread brought up a thought I hadn't considered before - perhaps Bernie is running not with the expectation to win, but with the expectation to help drive policy for the future. Its not that dissimilar to him entering the field in 2016 to at least provide an option and some debate for the D party.

Think of all the disaffected people from 2016 who need to be engaged to make 2020 work. Now imagine Bernie not running. There are 17 people in the field. A bunch are going to rise to the top and I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that recycled candidates do terribly. Let the man drive policy and I bet he will gracefully bow out and back a worthy nominee.

You might be right, but really he has already won in driving the Democratic party to adopt pretty much all of his platform from 2016.

People ridicule him for not passing much specific legislation (true), but which is more powerful, getting a few bills passed, or shaping much of the platform of one of the two major political parties?

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2019, 12:34:03 PM »

- SNIP -

You might be right, but really he has already won in driving the Democratic party to adopt pretty much all of his platform from 2016.

People ridicule him for not passing much specific legislation (true), but which is more powerful, getting a few bills passed, or shaping much of the platform of one of the two major political parties?

The work of Bernie in getting some of these ideas adopted seems like getting a huge rock rolling.  At first there is a jerk, the rock rolls back a bit, then it is pushed forward to move by fits and starts.  Once the rock actually begins rolling it has a lot of inertia and there is no stopping it. 

Just hope you are not in front of this massive rock.

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3022
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2019, 12:58:05 PM »
I like Elizabeth Warren just fine. She is a smart competent person and I align with much of her political platform. Just I'm being pragmatic, and if you use a white male you take away a lot of the "weapons" Trump uses against his opponents (painting them as the other, or as the enemy). If the Democrats put up a woman for president on the ticket, I fear Trump will use a lot of underbelly sexism against her, and he seems to use those kind of ugly urges prejudices really well to power up his base.   

If Bernie ran his two main detractions are that he is socialist (I know he isn't but that's what his opponents will say), and that he is old. for me personally one of my bigger reservations is he a purist, or a pragmatist? Would he be OK working both within the Democratic party and across the aisle to get legislation passed? I don't know.  It would not be great to have the "ball" (i.e. presidency) but then have an ineffective president. 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 01:04:04 PM by partgypsy »

YttriumNitrate

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 532
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2019, 01:39:25 PM »
I like Elizabeth Warren just fine. She is a smart competent person and I align with much of her political platform.... If Bernie ran his two main detractions are that he is socialist (I know he isn't but that's what his opponents will say), and that he is old.
I would add that Bernie is just eight years older than Warren, and the Democratic party does not have a good history of getting older non-incumbents elected. Going back 100 years, the oldest non-incumbent was Jimmy Carter who was 52 (at inauguration) followed by FDR at 51, Obama at 47, Clinton at 46, and Kennedy at 43.

Syonyk

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3756
    • Syonyk's Project Blog
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2019, 06:26:51 PM »
Unless Biden throws his hat in the ring (which I think gets more unlikely as the weeks and months pass), Bernie seems to be the front-runner, and he's going to have more cash than anyone. I wonder when the other Dems will start attacking him. I mean, if they want to win, they can't afford to let him get a gigantic $ advantage.

The Democratic Party primary season is shaping up like 2016's Republican setup - tons of people, no obvious front runners (perhaps some party-chosen front runners, but I think after getting caught meddling in 2016, the DNC will behave this time, possibly excessively so), and a long, drawn out season of chaos, with unexpected results.

Given Bernie's popularity last time, and the country-wide preference for "outsiders" over "Washington Elite," I think he's got a solid chance of just running away with the primaries.

Reading this thread brought up a thought I hadn't considered before - perhaps Bernie is running not with the expectation to win, but with the expectation to help drive policy for the future. Its not that dissimilar to him entering the field in 2016 to at least provide an option and some debate for the D party.

Or... he's playing to win, which is an awful lot more consistent with his behavior and comments in 2016.

Quote
Think of all the disaffected people from 2016 who need to be engaged to make 2020 work. Now imagine Bernie not running. There are 17 people in the field. A bunch are going to rise to the top and I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that recycled candidates do terribly. Let the man drive policy and I bet he will gracefully bow out and back a worthy nominee.

The Republicans ran a clown car primary in 2016, and we have Trump out of the deal.  Though, to be fair, Trump was remarkably good at setting his sights on a target and tweeting them to death (until they dropped out) - it was properly impressive to watch.  We'll see if anyone in the Democrats wants to play that dirty or not.

But I think Bernie has a very real chance of not only getting the nomination, but winning.  Now, the feasibility of his policies?  Up in the air.  But that sure didn't stop Trump.

Johnez

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
  • Location: Southern California
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2019, 09:24:38 PM »
It's great that Bernie's running. I hope it makes Democratic candidates up their game. But winning the nomination?  Bernie is effing ancient and a "well known socialist." Trump will have an absolute field day with this, I can already see it-"The Crazy old Communist," or worst.

LDoon

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 67
  • Location: Austin
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2019, 11:42:52 PM »
Reading this thread brought up a thought I hadn't considered before - perhaps Bernie is running not with the expectation to win, but with the expectation to help drive policy for the future. Its not that dissimilar to him entering the field in 2016 to at least provide an option and some debate for the D party.

Think of all the disaffected people from 2016 who need to be engaged to make 2020 work. Now imagine Bernie not running. There are 17 people in the field. A bunch are going to rise to the top and I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that recycled candidates do terribly. Let the man drive policy and I bet he will gracefully bow out and back a worthy nominee.

You might be right, but really he has already won in driving the Democratic party to adopt pretty much all of his platform from 2016.

People ridicule him for not passing much specific legislation (true), but which is more powerful, getting a few bills passed, or shaping much of the platform of one of the two major political parties?

The thing I'm interested in watching is whether a candidate parrots Bernie's left platform to win DNC nomination and then pivots to usual centrist points to try to "win over" Republicans.  It's foolish strategy but one that gets used often.  Independent voters are not people who like part of Reb. platform and part of Dem. platform.  They're people that don't like or trust either party.  Run a trustworthy candidate that has ideas that benefit the average person and they'll win. 

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #79 on: February 27, 2019, 04:56:11 AM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #80 on: February 27, 2019, 07:05:37 AM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

Trump has almost 90% approval among registered Republicans, and they are the people who vote in the primaries that determine the presidential candidate.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13346
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2019, 08:37:23 AM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

Trump has almost 90% approval among registered Republicans, and they are the people who vote in the primaries that determine the presidential candidate.

Republicans love Trump, it would make no sense to run someone else.  Racism, sexism, homophobia, nepotism, flagrant abuse of power, collusion with Russia . . . these are things that Republicans either enjoy, or at least are not bothered by enough to take any kind of action.
 Yes, it's popular for Republicans to publicly mouth the occasional mild concern over his actions and statements - but then they go on overwhelmingly supporting Trump at every turn.  Actions speak louder than words, and the Republican party has spoken loudly by their actions.

fuzzy math

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 825
  • Age: 37
  • Location: PNW ---> Midwest (for now)
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #82 on: February 27, 2019, 10:16:24 AM »

Given Bernie's popularity last time, and the country-wide preference for "outsiders" over "Washington Elite," I think he's got a solid chance of just running away with the primaries.

Reading this thread brought up a thought I hadn't considered before - perhaps Bernie is running not with the expectation to win, but with the expectation to help drive policy for the future. Its not that dissimilar to him entering the field in 2016 to at least provide an option and some debate for the D party.

Or... he's playing to win, which is an awful lot more consistent with his behavior and comments in 2016.

Quote
Think of all the disaffected people from 2016 who need to be engaged to make 2020 work. Now imagine Bernie not running. There are 17 people in the field. A bunch are going to rise to the top and I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that recycled candidates do terribly. Let the man drive policy and I bet he will gracefully bow out and back a worthy nominee.

The Republicans ran a clown car primary in 2016, and we have Trump out of the deal.  Though, to be fair, Trump was remarkably good at setting his sights on a target and tweeting them to death (until they dropped out) - it was properly impressive to watch.  We'll see if anyone in the Democrats wants to play that dirty or not.

But I think Bernie has a very real chance of not only getting the nomination, but winning.  Now, the feasibility of his policies?  Up in the air.  But that sure didn't stop Trump.

I was a Bernie bro (Bernie sis??) in 2016 and I'm not now, mostly due to his age as a factor in his inelectability. He will turn 79 yrs old 2 months before the 2020 election. He would be 79 yrs and 4 months by inauguration day and 83 yrs + 4 months by the completion of his first term.  From a practicality standpoint, him having a major health event or dying in office would be catastrophic to the country. There is a mixed track record of VPs being elevated to the presidency actually being reelected and I don't think that its worth risking an additional 4 years control of the White house when there are other viable candidates. I think the discontent and the amount of verbal diarrhea that Trump would spew about the ticket (flaws of the Presidential candidate + flaws of the VP candidate who could presumably be elevated to the presidency) would just be a giant distraction. I don't want a distraction. I want someone to verbally or literally eviscerate Trump on stage. I think Harris is the only person who can speak in a way that she will A) not tolerate his shit and B) leave his head spinning and him either out of control or unable to comprehend properly to respond

If Bernie was the only person willing to take on Trump, I'd vote for him. If he wins the nomination, I will vote for him. In my head though its like seeing an accident ahead on the road, and not being able to avoid it. I felt this way in 2016 and don't want a repeat of "the wrong candidate" causing more discontent within the party.

sherr

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 647
  • Age: 33
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2019, 12:11:42 PM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

Not only is Trump definitely going to win the Republican primary again - without question - but the Republican Party is currently trying to change their primary rules in various states to make it more difficult for anyone to run against him.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2019, 12:13:32 PM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

Not only is Trump definitely going to win the Republican primary again - without question - but the Republican Party is currently trying to change their primary rules in various states to make it more difficult for anyone to run against him.

And... somewhat relevant:

"I did the same thing you are doing now for ten years. I protected Mr. Trump for ten years."

Michael Cohen, this morning, to the GOP congresspeople

v8rx7guy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1238
  • Location: Bellingham, WA
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2019, 12:46:40 PM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

Not only is Trump definitely going to win the Republican primary again - without question - but the Republican Party is currently trying to change their primary rules in various states to make it more difficult for anyone to run against him.

I predict as it becomes closer to the primaries, he chooses not to run for a 2nd term.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2019, 12:47:59 PM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

Not only is Trump definitely going to win the Republican primary again - without question - but the Republican Party is currently trying to change their primary rules in various states to make it more difficult for anyone to run against him.

I predict as it becomes closer to the primaries, he chooses not to run for a 2nd term.

Can I ask what you're basing that on? Because I honestly can't imagine it.

Johnez

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
  • Location: Southern California
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #87 on: February 27, 2019, 01:32:58 PM »
^Probably out of the same hope that people had when they figured he didn't *really* want to be president... And then he won the primaries. And then the presidency.

EricL

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 936
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #88 on: February 27, 2019, 03:25:36 PM »
I like Bernie.  But he is on the old side.  It will be interesting to see if the lefty democrats will have a feeding frenzy that will gut their support and leave the democrats with another sub par Presidential choice that Trump will somehow, against all reason, defeat.

I rather hope not. 

v8rx7guy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1238
  • Location: Bellingham, WA
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #89 on: February 27, 2019, 03:47:57 PM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

Not only is Trump definitely going to win the Republican primary again - without question - but the Republican Party is currently trying to change their primary rules in various states to make it more difficult for anyone to run against him.

I predict as it becomes closer to the primaries, he chooses not to run for a 2nd term.

Can I ask what you're basing that on? Because I honestly can't imagine it.

My read on it is that he really isn't enjoying it.  I think he will be satisfied with going down in history as being a POTUS and having had his time to be one of the most powerful persons in the world.  I think he will end up just walking away feeling he did what he needed to do... no need for 4 more years of something he really doesn't enjoy.

I predict Pence will run and get the nomination in 2020.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2019, 03:51:10 PM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

Not only is Trump definitely going to win the Republican primary again - without question - but the Republican Party is currently trying to change their primary rules in various states to make it more difficult for anyone to run against him.

I predict as it becomes closer to the primaries, he chooses not to run for a 2nd term.

Can I ask what you're basing that on? Because I honestly can't imagine it.

My read on it is that he really isn't enjoying it.  I think he will be satisfied with going down in history as being a POTUS and having had his time to be one of the most powerful persons in the world.  I think he will end up just walking away feeling he did what he needed to do... no need for 4 more years of something he really doesn't enjoy.

I predict Pence will run and get the nomination in 2020.

I definitely agree heís not enjoying it. But his ego will never allow him to back down. He will run in 2020.

And Iíll go further and echo what Michael Cohen said at the end of his testimony today. Michael Cohen, who has been an intimate of Trumpís for ten years:

If Trump loses in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transfer of power.

asiljoy

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #91 on: February 27, 2019, 04:08:44 PM »
Are the Republicans really going to run Mr. Trump again?  He often does not seem to have the honorable characteristics one would expect in a president.  At this point in time, no Republicans seem to have made much noise in challenging Mr. trump.  I have noted in conversations with the people I meet that their is deteriorating support for the man.  This army of potential Democratic candidates are gearing up to face Trump and the opponent could be someone else.

Not only is Trump definitely going to win the Republican primary again - without question - but the Republican Party is currently trying to change their primary rules in various states to make it more difficult for anyone to run against him.

I predict as it becomes closer to the primaries, he chooses not to run for a 2nd term.

Can I ask what you're basing that on? Because I honestly can't imagine it.

My read on it is that he really isn't enjoying it.  I think he will be satisfied with going down in history as being a POTUS and having had his time to be one of the most powerful persons in the world.  I think he will end up just walking away feeling he did what he needed to do... no need for 4 more years of something he really doesn't enjoy.

I predict Pence will run and get the nomination in 2020.

I definitely agree heís not enjoying it. But his ego will never allow him to back down. He will run in 2020.

And Iíll go further and echo what Michael Cohen said at the end of his testimony today. Michael Cohen, who has been an intimate of Trumpís for ten years:

If Trump loses in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transfer of power.

To belabor the point, my hunch is that he also thinks the presidency is protecting him from legal repercussions and he'd want to keep that as long as he could.

Syonyk

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3756
    • Syonyk's Project Blog
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #92 on: February 27, 2019, 04:25:24 PM »
If Trump loses in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transfer of power.

Oh FFS.  I've been hearing that since I was old enough to pay attention to politics.

Bush Senior... actually, I don't think anyone was too worried about him.

Clinton was going to use the UN Black Helicopters or something to not leave office.

Bush Junior definitely wasn't going to leave office peacefully.

Obama was going to be a three term President from various whatevers.

It's silly every time it's brought up.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2019, 04:30:46 PM »
If Trump loses in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transfer of power.

Oh FFS.  I've been hearing that since I was old enough to pay attention to politics.

Bush Senior... actually, I don't think anyone was too worried about him.

Clinton was going to use the UN Black Helicopters or something to not leave office.

Bush Junior definitely wasn't going to leave office peacefully.

Obama was going to be a three term President from various whatevers.

It's silly every time it's brought up.

Seriously?

I have literally never heard it about anyone else.

Quite honestly, I question your statement. Can you, or anyone else, provide any evidence of this?

Edit: Well, I do take that back. About Obama, sure, because the rigt wing media fell off the batshit crazy train about him. But they also thought he was a secret Muslim Kenyan terrorist, so... not too sure we need to pay a lot of attention to that.

Letís not forget that Trump:

Has said if Hillary won, it would be because the election was rigged.

Insinuated at the time that his base would rise up violently if he did not win in 2018.

Has openly floated the idea of making an exception to term limits so he could serve more than two terms.

And again, one of his close associates and attorneys just stated his belief about this today, under oath.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 04:41:31 PM by Kris »

v8rx7guy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1238
  • Location: Bellingham, WA
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2019, 04:34:22 PM »
If Trump loses in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transfer of power.

Oh FFS.  I've been hearing that since I was old enough to pay attention to politics.

Bush Senior... actually, I don't think anyone was too worried about him.

Clinton was going to use the UN Black Helicopters or something to not leave office.

Bush Junior definitely wasn't going to leave office peacefully.

Obama was going to be a three term President from various whatevers.

It's silly every time it's brought up.

Seriously?

I have literally never heard it about anyone else.

Quite honestly, I question your statement. Can you, or anyone else, provide any evidence of this?

Letís not forget that Trump:

Has said if Hillary won, it would be because the election was rigged.

Insinuated at the time that his base would rise up violently if he did not win in 2018.

Has openly floated the idea of making an exception to term limits so he could serve more than two terms.

Both of you should just bookmark this thread and see who's right if Trump loses 2020.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2019, 04:40:47 PM »
If Trump loses in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transfer of power.

Oh FFS.  I've been hearing that since I was old enough to pay attention to politics.

Bush Senior... actually, I don't think anyone was too worried about him.

Clinton was going to use the UN Black Helicopters or something to not leave office.

Bush Junior definitely wasn't going to leave office peacefully.

Obama was going to be a three term President from various whatevers.

It's silly every time it's brought up.

Seriously?

I have literally never heard it about anyone else.

Quite honestly, I question your statement. Can you, or anyone else, provide any evidence of this?

Letís not forget that Trump:

Has said if Hillary won, it would be because the election was rigged.

Insinuated at the time that his base would rise up violently if he did not win in 2018.

Has openly floated the idea of making an exception to term limits so he could serve more than two terms.

Both of you should just bookmark this thread and see who's right if Trump loses 2020.

Yup.

Iíve been thinking about this for a while now. Honestly, I used to be 50/50 about it. 50 that his ego would not be able to deal with the idea of relinquishing power, and 50 that he would privately say, ďthank god,Ē walk away, and spending the next years lobbing flaming turds at the next president from the cheap seats of Twitter to assuage his wounded pride.

But the more criminal stuff that seems to come up about him, the more I feel like he might really see being President For Life as the best way to avoid prosecution. So now, I give it about 70/30 that if he is still president in 2020 and loses.... he will not go quietly.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 04:49:07 PM by Kris »

WhiteTrashCash

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2019, 06:04:47 PM »
I wonder if Bernie will make the same mistakes again this time and campaign to black voters by telling them that his opponent wants to cut their welfare. I literally cringed when he said things like that during the last election cycle. Talk about racism. As if black voters are all on welfare, when the reality is that they want the same things as white voters for their communities: good jobs, good schools, quality affordable housing, quality affordable healthcare, the feeling that their children are safe when they play in the park, etc. I guess that's just what happens when you live your entire life in a suburban white bubble like Vermont.

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #97 on: February 27, 2019, 07:23:57 PM »

- SNIP -

 I guess that's just what happens when you live your entire life in a suburban white bubble like Vermont.

I thought it was rural like Maine.  I guess it is close enough to those Eastern big cities that it could be considered a suburb.

Mississippi Mudstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2158
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Danielsville, GA
    • A Riving Home - Ramblings of a Recusant Woodworker
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #98 on: February 28, 2019, 07:32:59 AM »
If Trump loses in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transfer of power.

Oh FFS.  I've been hearing that since I was old enough to pay attention to politics.

Bush Senior... actually, I don't think anyone was too worried about him.

Clinton was going to use the UN Black Helicopters or something to not leave office.

Bush Junior definitely wasn't going to leave office peacefully.

Obama was going to be a three term President from various whatevers.

It's silly every time it's brought up.

Seriously?

I have literally never heard it about anyone else.

I had dozens of people on Facebook posting about how Obama was going to declare a national emergency to avoid turning over power to Trump in the days leading up to 2017. You must hang out in some pretty blue circles if you never saw people sharing every inane conspiracy theory imaginable about Obama. I'd say Trump is probably more likely than any president we've had to refuse a peaceful transfer of power, but I'd peg the odds at wayyyy less than 1%.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Old Bernie is Running
« Reply #99 on: February 28, 2019, 07:46:44 AM »
If Trump loses in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transfer of power.

Oh FFS.  I've been hearing that since I was old enough to pay attention to politics.

Bush Senior... actually, I don't think anyone was too worried about him.

Clinton was going to use the UN Black Helicopters or something to not leave office.

Bush Junior definitely wasn't going to leave office peacefully.

Obama was going to be a three term President from various whatevers.

It's silly every time it's brought up.

Seriously?

I have literally never heard it about anyone else.

I had dozens of people on Facebook posting about how Obama was going to declare a national emergency to avoid turning over power to Trump in the days leading up to 2017. You must hang out in some pretty blue circles if you never saw people sharing every inane conspiracy theory imaginable about Obama. I'd say Trump is probably more likely than any president we've had to refuse a peaceful transfer of power, but I'd peg the odds at wayyyy less than 1%.

I did edit my post above once I remembered the wacko conspiracy theory stuff.

Hope youíre right about Trump.