Odd dog behaviour, any experts in here??

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Ok, here's the situation:

I have a very good friend who is part husky/part lab, she's 10 years old. I've known this dog for years, and we got for a long walk most days. She's always been a happy, bouncy, not overly smart dog who loves people and other dogs. She's a total attention whore. She's not especially well behaved, she does need to be told not to do things but she will invariably obey while pretending it was her idea all along.

Her life changed a bit a few years ago when her parents split. She now spends a few weeks at a time at each parents house, plus her grandparents house. I know a lot of dogs would find this stressful but husky appears to genuinely love the attention and the excitement.

THE PROBLEM:
Husky has started to get negative reactions from other dogs. She seems to be approaching them in much the same way she always has, I haven't seen aggression from her although she does seem to go in a bit fast. When she gets an aggressive reaction, she doesn't appear to react to it. It's gone from an occasional thing to a definite trend. What's going on??? Some dogs have run away from her squealing, some have growled at her, and a couple have gone for her. Then there are also the maybe 50% of dogs who still greet her quite normally and they have a good time.

This happens both when she and other dogs are both on and off the lead. Obviously, I've started keeping her on her lead if there are other dogs around.

I don't understand what's happening, or where it may end up. Is this her problem, or could it be a dog problem after quite a long and hard lockdown in New Zealand? What should I do?

Husky parents have noticed this, but they don't seem to be all that concerned. I walk her far more then either of them, maybe that's why.....

Help!

[gooki]

Not an expert but throwing in my 2 cents.

Being on a leash messes with dogs body language, and can cause eager dogs to come across as aggressive to other dogs.

Might be hormonal, giving out a different scent.

Might be issues with the other dogs.

The fact 50% of other dogs still see her as friendly is a good sign. I’d look to take her places she can be safely off leash. Dog parks, beach etc.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Not an expert but throwing in my 2 cents.

Being on a leash messes with dogs body language, and can cause eager dogs to come across as aggressive to other dogs.

Might be hormonal, giving out a different scent.

Might be issues with the other dogs.

The fact 50% of other dogs still see her as friendly is a good sign. I’d look to take her places she can be safely off leash. Dog parks, beach etc.

Thanks for the feedback. I did take her to the beach recently, and there were no issues at all with other dogs. She was off the leash. Same with the park that we often go to. I'll take better note of what the leash situation is when these situations arise.

[Metalcat]

I can't imagine any dog not reacting somehow to living in multiple homes with different routines. Dogs also tend to get more neurotic with age.

If she's not being walked much at one house, that may be making her incredibly anxious and eager to walk when she's with you. If she needs walks, as Huskies really tend to, then the inconsistency could be getting to her and though she seems happy to you, other dogs might be picking up on her stress hormones.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I can't imagine any dog not reacting somehow to living in multiple homes with different routines. Dogs also tend to get more neurotic with age.

If she's not being walked much at one house, that may be making her incredibly anxious and eager to walk when she's with you. If she needs walks, as Huskies really tend to, then the inconsistency could be getting to her and though she seems happy to you, other dogs might be picking up on her stress hormones.

Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know that she's stressed about the shifting between houses, because people love her in every place, she has her own bed and area at every place, and she gets to do different stuff at every place. There's cross over with the people at each place also, so it's like an extended pack. I know she thinks it's fabulous when I visit her at another place, because she's bouncy and insists on showing me all the new stuff. She goes four wheel driving and hunting at her dad's house, there are dogs next door to converse with during the day. She goes roaming around a forested lifestyle block at the grandparents, and the grandparents are home during the day. It's her mum's house that is the issue, I think. Her mum takes her walking at night, and I take her for a few miles during the day. I don't think she's happy there. I don't always walk her, but I always pop in and say hi with a pig's ear, or at least pick her up and she can come do errands/meetings with me. I don't leave her in the car, either! I walk her 4 days a week on average.

[gooki]

If she’s consistently good of leash in open areas then that’s good.

My other theory is maybe she’s more protective when on lease/close to her human companion.

[Montecarlo]

I haven't seen aggression from her although she does seem to go in a bit fast. When she gets an aggressive reaction, she doesn't appear to react to it. It's gone from an occasional thing to a definite trend. What's going on??? Some dogs have run away from her squealing, some have growled at her, and a couple have gone for her. Then there are also the maybe 50% of dogs who still greet her quite normally and they have a good time.

Something doesn't make sense to me.  If she's not showing any aggression, why would other dogs run squealing?  I would be concerned for her safety if she's not reacting to obvious signs from dogs saying "back off, you're in my bubble."

That being said, one of my dogs is very picky about other dogs.  Some she likes, most she doesn't care for.  She seems to make up her mind in about 5 seconds.  Maybe the other dogs just don't think she's their cup of tea.  Who knows what goes on in their brains.

[RetiredAt63]

I haven't seen aggression from her although she does seem to go in a bit fast. When she gets an aggressive reaction, she doesn't appear to react to it. It's gone from an occasional thing to a definite trend. What's going on??? Some dogs have run away from her squealing, some have growled at her, and a couple have gone for her. Then there are also the maybe 50% of dogs who still greet her quite normally and they have a good time.

Something doesn't make sense to me.  If she's not showing any aggression, why would other dogs run squealing?  I would be concerned for her safety if she's not reacting to obvious signs from dogs saying "back off, you're in my bubble."

That being said, one of my dogs is very picky about other dogs.  Some she likes, most she doesn't care for.  She seems to make up her mind in about 5 seconds.  Maybe the other dogs just don't think she's their cup of tea.  Who knows what goes on in their brains.

Some dogs interpret the prick ears and raised tail of Arctic breeds as aggression, not interest.  My late Missy was incredibly friendly, no aggression in her, but she intimidated some dogs who read her wrong.

Some dogs react badly to the moving back and forth between 2 homes and 2 sets of people.  Missy did when Ex and I split.  Even though she was a very confident dog and we both loved her.  This dog is older, she may be feeling the stress more.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I haven't seen aggression from her although she does seem to go in a bit fast. When she gets an aggressive reaction, she doesn't appear to react to it. It's gone from an occasional thing to a definite trend. What's going on??? Some dogs have run away from her squealing, some have growled at her, and a couple have gone for her. Then there are also the maybe 50% of dogs who still greet her quite normally and they have a good time.

Something doesn't make sense to me.  If she's not showing any aggression, why would other dogs run squealing?  I would be concerned for her safety if she's not reacting to obvious signs from dogs saying "back off, you're in my bubble."

That being said, one of my dogs is very picky about other dogs.  Some she likes, most she doesn't care for.  She seems to make up her mind in about 5 seconds.  Maybe the other dogs just don't think she's their cup of tea.  Who knows what goes on in their brains.

She goes in a bit hot. I think it's partly because she's on a lead and she knows I'll hold her back so she does kind of charge at other dogs. That said, there's tail wagging and interest, not growling and aggression. The dog that ran away squealing was well behind it's mother, and I had her sitting on a lead in short order, there wasn't a lot of time for her to back off. I spoke to the other dog's mum and asked if she knew what that was about and she didn't see any aggression either. That dog was willing to come up and sniff my hand, but didn't want to go near the husky.

She doesn't react to other dogs, especially small yappy dogs who get agitated and tell her off from a few yards away. She'll just keep on walking or doing whatever she was doing. She doesn't react to dogs who show no interest in her. Once a wee yapper ran up a driveway onto the street and bit her for absolutely no reason - she squeaked and look surprised. She did not return any aggression. She was fine, she has enough fluff to not be too worried about such things, and we stuck around on the other side of the road to see the yapper getting told off. She grinned about that.

I've seen husky return a snarl, that happened today when we passed another dog on a lead and it snarled at her. The other dog snarled first but husky tried to move across the front of me to snarl back at the dog on the other side of me. Perhaps she is being protective? She wasn't happy when we had a little chat about that. She was licking her lips, which she does when she's annoyed/stressed/agitated.

We're just not on the same wavelength right now. I'm not sure what's going on in her head, and perhaps she's feeling the same. We'll go up to the big forest park tomorrow and see if we can get back in tune. She's a lovely girl. I don't like feeling uncertain about her.

Want to see her? This is her summer haircut, partly due to heat and partly due to grass seeds



And this is winter

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I haven't seen aggression from her although she does seem to go in a bit fast. When she gets an aggressive reaction, she doesn't appear to react to it. It's gone from an occasional thing to a definite trend. What's going on??? Some dogs have run away from her squealing, some have growled at her, and a couple have gone for her. Then there are also the maybe 50% of dogs who still greet her quite normally and they have a good time.

Something doesn't make sense to me.  If she's not showing any aggression, why would other dogs run squealing?  I would be concerned for her safety if she's not reacting to obvious signs from dogs saying "back off, you're in my bubble."

That being said, one of my dogs is very picky about other dogs.  Some she likes, most she doesn't care for.  She seems to make up her mind in about 5 seconds.  Maybe the other dogs just don't think she's their cup of tea.  Who knows what goes on in their brains.

Some dogs interpret the prick ears and raised tail of Arctic breeds as aggression, not interest.  My late Missy was incredibly friendly, no aggression in her, but she intimidated some dogs who read her wrong.

Some dogs react badly to the moving back and forth between 2 homes and 2 sets of people.  Missy did when Ex and I split.  Even though she was a very confident dog and we both loved her.  This dog is older, she may be feeling the stress more.

Hmm. She definitely has the prick ears and raised tail when she greets. This is new, though, new levels of bad reactions from other dogs.

How did Missy show her stress?

[former player]

What has changed in a dog's life recently is of course social distancing etc.  Perhaps the other dogs are reacting to changed socialisation in recent weeks/months, or perhaps they are picking up on their owner's concerns about close contact with unknown dogs.

I have a rescue collie, acquired a couple of months before the pandemic, who has no agression but like yours does want company and goes in a bit hot with ears and tail up.  Sadly the lack of dog training classes since he settled in or of socialisation opportunities makes it difficult to do much about - it's a question of managing the situation for the moment rather than resolving it, I find.

[GuitarStv]

She goes in a bit hot. I think it's partly because she's on a lead and she knows I'll hold her back so she does kind of charge at other dogs.

I suspect that this is your problem.  It is unacceptable dog behaviour to be pulling and straining at a lead.  It's creates a heightened tension situation that is very stressful for some dogs (especially as many smaller dogs have been attacked by owners who have the dog on a lead but no control).

Train the dog to sit or lie down while on the lead when another dog approaches, and not to get up until you verbally allow it.  This allows the other dog to approach without fear and creates a much better controlled situation.

[RetiredAt63]

She goes in a bit hot. I think it's partly because she's on a lead and she knows I'll hold her back so she does kind of charge at other dogs.

I suspect that this is your problem.  It is unacceptable dog behaviour to be pulling and straining at a lead.  It's creates a heightened tension situation that is very stressful for some dogs (especially as many smaller dogs have been attacked by owners who have the dog on a lead but no control).

Train the dog to sit or lie down while on the lead when another dog approaches, and not to get up until you verbally allow it.  This allows the other dog to approach without fear and creates a much better controlled situation.

This.  Missy was over eager at times.

[RetiredAt63]

I haven't seen aggression from her although she does seem to go in a bit fast. When she gets an aggressive reaction, she doesn't appear to react to it. It's gone from an occasional thing to a definite trend. What's going on??? Some dogs have run away from her squealing, some have growled at her, and a couple have gone for her. Then there are also the maybe 50% of dogs who still greet her quite normally and they have a good time.

Something doesn't make sense to me.  If she's not showing any aggression, why would other dogs run squealing?  I would be concerned for her safety if she's not reacting to obvious signs from dogs saying "back off, you're in my bubble."

That being said, one of my dogs is very picky about other dogs.  Some she likes, most she doesn't care for.  She seems to make up her mind in about 5 seconds.  Maybe the other dogs just don't think she's their cup of tea.  Who knows what goes on in their brains.

Some dogs interpret the prick ears and raised tail of Arctic breeds as aggression, not interest.  My late Missy was incredibly friendly, no aggression in her, but she intimidated some dogs who read her wrong.

Some dogs react badly to the moving back and forth between 2 homes and 2 sets of people.  Missy did when Ex and I split.  Even though she was a very confident dog and we both loved her.  This dog is older, she may be feeling the stress more.

Hmm. She definitely has the prick ears and raised tail when she greets. This is new, though, new levels of bad reactions from other dogs.

How did Missy show her stress?

She started having accidents both houses, more at his.  She was perfectly reliable before that, and she was perfectly healthy.  When I  realized that the visits to Ex were stressing her I stopped them, and after a few months she was fine.

Your friend is gorgeous and goofy, love the smile.  If I ever make it back to NZ can I visit?

[Metalcat]

I can't imagine any dog not reacting somehow to living in multiple homes with different routines. Dogs also tend to get more neurotic with age.

If she's not being walked much at one house, that may be making her incredibly anxious and eager to walk when she's with you. If she needs walks, as Huskies really tend to, then the inconsistency could be getting to her and though she seems happy to you, other dogs might be picking up on her stress hormones.

Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know that she's stressed about the shifting between houses, because people love her in every place, she has her own bed and area at every place, and she gets to do different stuff at every place. There's cross over with the people at each place also, so it's like an extended pack. I know she thinks it's fabulous when I visit her at another place, because she's bouncy and insists on showing me all the new stuff. She goes four wheel driving and hunting at her dad's house, there are dogs next door to converse with during the day. She goes roaming around a forested lifestyle block at the grandparents, and the grandparents are home during the day. It's her mum's house that is the issue, I think. Her mum takes her walking at night, and I take her for a few miles during the day. I don't think she's happy there. I don't always walk her, but I always pop in and say hi with a pig's ear, or at least pick her up and she can come do errands/meetings with me. I don't leave her in the car, either! I walk her 4 days a week on average.

Just because she is happy doesn't mean it doesn't stress her. Dogs are like kids, they need routine to be stable. However, let me change the term from "stress" to "over stimulation".

To me, the fact that this issue started with the split custody routine indicates that it is most likely related to the split custody routine.

It would also be highly unusual for a dog *not* to be over stimulated by regularly changing home and leadership, even if she loves every single one of them and every single activity.

Even that sign of her being extremely excited and rambunctious to see you can be a sign of over stimulation. A calm, stable dog ideally doesn't get overly excited when you come home, because they expected that you would, so it's kind of a non event. Alpha dogs in a pack will often step in and literally step on an over stimulated dog to get them to tone it down.

I'm sure your dog is super happy, she sounds very loved, but definitely be aware that over stimulation is very hard on them and something to keep an eye on.

If she is over stimulated, she will certainly be excreting a ton of stress hormones, and that would signal any dog near her to be alert, and many will react negatively as a result.

[FIFoFum]

Somewhat Quick take -

(1) Please don't let her charge in hot at other dogs, on or off leash - but especially NOT if the other dogs are on leash. This is rude and threatening dog behavior. Even if her intent is not to aggress, other dogs will perceive it this way.

(2) I'm a professional trainer, and I would be willing to bet that your dog is engaging in subtle dog body language that other dogs are perceiving as a threat or challenge. For example, there may be a hard stare involved that you are missing because it is so fast and not in your range of vision walking the dog. Most people do not see why other dogs are reacting, and there is nearly always SOMETHING, quite likely several somethings the initiating dog is doing here. I'd also posit that in addition to breed, the dog may also be more stiff and less fluid in movement due to age, and that can contribute to being read as unfriendly.

(3) All dogs are probably a little bit 'off' in their social interactions because of the COVID. Even if your dog has had more exposure to other dogs, some may have had their worlds very curtailed and limited for a while. And even if the humans have any stress or body language of "Must not get too close to other human," dogs can pick up on this and perceive it to mean the other group (including the dog) is a thing to be concerned of.

(4) I think it's a waste of time to focus on the household splits and the "why" behind where the dog is happy and where the dog is stressed and sad. It's not wholly irrelevant, but it's MOSTLY not knowable or important. What does matter is this: Is the dog encountering new or different dogs in these locations that is changing how they react to other dogs? For example, if they are now living with another dog, that can change behavior and body language to other dogs. Or if they are bordering a new neighbor dog that always barks at them when they are out, that can change things. Looks diagnostically at what's changed surrounding these specific behaviors.
---

Last - I'd suggest limiting these experiences. If you can't work around these situations without changing the quality of life for the pup, I'd highly suggest working with a local qualified trainer.

[Metalcat]

^This brings up a good point

There are very very different schools of thought when it comes to dog trainers and dog behaviour.

I am not a trainer, but have a dog breeder and trainer in the family.

Is my school of thought correct? Who knows, it works for me. Take all of the input you get and take from it what works for you.

For me, instability in routine looks like an obvious culprit, to the trainer above, COVID seems like a plausible culprit and looking at routine sounds like a waste of time.

[MilesTeg]

Did you check the dog for scratch marks on its head, neck or face?

Have you discovered an unexplained dead crab/spider like creature with a long tail?

[Metalcat]

Did you check the dog for scratch marks on its head, neck or face?

Have you discovered an unexplained dead crab/spider like creature with a long tail?

Oh my...

[RetiredAt63]

Did you check the dog for scratch marks on its head, neck or face?

Have you discovered an unexplained dead crab/spider like creature with a long tail?

Oh my...

You got this, can you you clue me in?

[Cyanne]

I believe it’s a reference to the movie The Thing.

[Metalcat]

I believe it’s a reference to the movie The Thing.

A hilarious reference that just about made me spit out my drink.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Somewhat Quick take -



(4) I think it's a waste of time to focus on the household splits and the "why" behind where the dog is happy and where the dog is stressed and sad. It's not wholly irrelevant, but it's MOSTLY not knowable or important. What does matter is this: Is the dog encountering new or different dogs in these locations that is changing how they react to other dogs? For example, if they are now living with another dog, that can change behavior and body language to other dogs. Or if they are bordering a new neighbor dog that always barks at them when they are out, that can change things. Looks diagnostically at what's changed surrounding these specific behaviors.
---

This is really interesting. When she stays at the dad's home, which is in a slightly dodgy area, she has a couple of mean looking dogs next door. I know they're not actually mean because I've met them, but they're definitely the bark first ask questions later kind. I call them the Linwood Boys and I've been wondering if they've been teaching husky rude words. We've been joking that her dog greeting has changed from 'good day' to 'yo, my N*******'.

But how to handle it, yes, I've been getting her to sit quietly until the other dog passes. That seems to work. I've also started using her harness again. She doesn't normally pull on the lead for me, but she has started and I need more control because she's such a big animal.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

^This brings up a good point

There are very very different schools of thought when it comes to dog trainers and dog behaviour.

I am not a trainer, but have a dog breeder and trainer in the family.

Is my school of thought correct? Who knows, it works for me. Take all of the input you get and take from it what works for you.

For me, instability in routine looks like an obvious culprit, to the trainer above, COVID seems like a plausible culprit and looking at routine sounds like a waste of time.

I think it's all worth looking at. I'm not sure what I can do about most of it, unfortunately, because she's not my dog. The mum isn't totally open to any comments I have on her parenting. I'm going to chat with her anyway, because the fact that she's abdicated walking responsibilities to me, as well as daytime appts like the groomers, does make me part of this dog's village. I'm a little bit worried that stabilising the dog's routine would actually mean staying with mum more often. That would be a disaster. I'm better friends with the dad. Staying with him more often would be bad also. He's a deadbeat dad who feeds her crap and doesn't follow up on vet stuff. The best case scenario for the dog would be living out at the grandparents. I wouldn't see her, but she'd be happiest.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I haven't seen aggression from her although she does seem to go in a bit fast. When she gets an aggressive reaction, she doesn't appear to react to it. It's gone from an occasional thing to a definite trend. What's going on??? Some dogs have run away from her squealing, some have growled at her, and a couple have gone for her. Then there are also the maybe 50% of dogs who still greet her quite normally and they have a good time.

Something doesn't make sense to me.  If she's not showing any aggression, why would other dogs run squealing?  I would be concerned for her safety if she's not reacting to obvious signs from dogs saying "back off, you're in my bubble."

That being said, one of my dogs is very picky about other dogs.  Some she likes, most she doesn't care for.  She seems to make up her mind in about 5 seconds.  Maybe the other dogs just don't think she's their cup of tea.  Who knows what goes on in their brains.

Some dogs interpret the prick ears and raised tail of Arctic breeds as aggression, not interest.  My late Missy was incredibly friendly, no aggression in her, but she intimidated some dogs who read her wrong.

Some dogs react badly to the moving back and forth between 2 homes and 2 sets of people.  Missy did when Ex and I split.  Even though she was a very confident dog and we both loved her.  This dog is older, she may be feeling the stress more.

Hmm. She definitely has the prick ears and raised tail when she greets. This is new, though, new levels of bad reactions from other dogs.

How did Missy show her stress?

She started having accidents both houses, more at his.  She was perfectly reliable before that, and she was perfectly healthy.  When I  realized that the visits to Ex were stressing her I stopped them, and after a few months she was fine.

Your friend is gorgeous and goofy, love the smile.  If I ever make it back to NZ can I visit?

She's such a lovely girl, isn't she? We get a lot of attention when walking - it's like walking a movie star. People stop their cars to say how beautiful she is, and she's very attentive to her fans. She's even more hilarious when she's been rolling in the grass. She gets green stains down her cheekbones that look like makeup. She's a big dog though - 35 kilos. I'm very aware of people's reactions to her, especially children, who are often worried. I'll get her sitting and on a short lead for the kid to pass us. I used to be scared of dogs, myself.

Of course, you can visit! Catching up with another mustachian would be so fun, and I can show you a real sheep farm with 3000 ewes in the high country!

[RetiredAt63]

I haven't seen aggression from her although she does seem to go in a bit fast. When she gets an aggressive reaction, she doesn't appear to react to it. It's gone from an occasional thing to a definite trend. What's going on??? Some dogs have run away from her squealing, some have growled at her, and a couple have gone for her. Then there are also the maybe 50% of dogs who still greet her quite normally and they have a good time.

Something doesn't make sense to me.  If she's not showing any aggression, why would other dogs run squealing?  I would be concerned for her safety if she's not reacting to obvious signs from dogs saying "back off, you're in my bubble."

That being said, one of my dogs is very picky about other dogs.  Some she likes, most she doesn't care for.  She seems to make up her mind in about 5 seconds.  Maybe the other dogs just don't think she's their cup of tea.  Who knows what goes on in their brains.

Some dogs interpret the prick ears and raised tail of Arctic breeds as aggression, not interest.  My late Missy was incredibly friendly, no aggression in her, but she intimidated some dogs who read her wrong.

Some dogs react badly to the moving back and forth between 2 homes and 2 sets of people.  Missy did when Ex and I split.  Even though she was a very confident dog and we both loved her.  This dog is older, she may be feeling the stress more.

Hmm. She definitely has the prick ears and raised tail when she greets. This is new, though, new levels of bad reactions from other dogs.

How did Missy show her stress?

She started having accidents both houses, more at his.  She was perfectly reliable before that, and she was perfectly healthy.  When I  realized that the visits to Ex were stressing her I stopped them, and after a few months she was fine.

Your friend is gorgeous and goofy, love the smile.  If I ever make it back to NZ can I visit?

She's such a lovely girl, isn't she? We get a lot of attention when walking - it's like walking a movie star. People stop their cars to say how beautiful she is, and she's very attentive to her fans. She's even more hilarious when she's been rolling in the grass. She gets green stains down her cheekbones that look like makeup. She's a big dog though - 35 kilos. I'm very aware of people's reactions to her, especially children, who are often worried. I'll get her sitting and on a short lead for the kid to pass us. I used to be scared of dogs, myself.

Of course, you can visit! Catching up with another mustachian would be so fun, and I can show you a real sheep farm with 3000 ewes in the high country!

I met a few sheep farmers when I was at the Majacraft retreat, one gave a talk on NZ rare breeds.  Great sheep country, no coyotes.