Obamacare Knowledge

[DollarBill]

How many of you know how the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was passed? (Please raise hands)

I’ve had many conversations with people that have no idea…but I can’t really blame them because it was swept under the rug quickly. Even now it is hard to track down on how it really happened. I decided to write this now not to have a silly argument between Dems vs Repubs (because I know there is always shady business on both sides. Plus, two party system doesn't work) but just for education to all. 

How it happened:
It was first introduced on Sept. 17, 2009, as a House resolution (H.R. 3590) by Democratic Rep. Charlie Rangel of New York and was called the "Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009."* The House passed that measure unanimously (419-0) on Oct. 08, 2009 and sent it to the Senate.

(H.R. 3590) Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009 became the vehicle for the Senate to proceed with a comprehensive healthcare overhaul. Once in the Senate, the bill was "gutted entirely" except for the number (H.R. 3590) and retitled to "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act," which passed on Dec. 24, 2009 around midnight. It passed the Senate (60-40, no Repubs voted for it), since they had 60 votes it couldn’t be filibustered.

The thing that gets to me most; how is it legal for them to throw out all of the meat/potatoes in the first resolution then completely rewrite the law? It has to be a violation of the spirit of the Origination Clause! The spirit of the original resolution was to help out the Service Members, they didn't even leave that part in the Bill. But I never heard anyone debating/talking about it before. I just kept hearing about the Tax vs Revenue issue.

The President signed it into law on May 23, 2010.

* (H.R. 3590) Titled: Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act. This Act was introduced to the House. It was to give relief to Service Members from having to pay back $8K if they got deployed and had to sell their house before the 3 years expired. (Remember: The first-time homebuyer tax credit was implemented. This tax credit gave qualified first-time homebuyers with a maximum $8,000 tax credit. To ensure that the credit benefitted ordinary Americans and not speculators, we required that borrowers who took advantage of the credit repay it if they sold their home within three years of the purchase date. It was part of H.R. 1 Titled: American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.)

[beltim]

The thing that gets to me most; how is it legal for them to throw out all of the meat/potatoes in the first resolution then completely rewrite the law? It has to be a violation of the spirit of the Origination Clause! The spirit of the original resolution was to help out the Service Members, they didn't even leave that part in the Bill. But I never heard anyone debating/talking about it before. I just kept hearing about the Tax vs Revenue issue.

The President signed it into law on May 23, 2010.

You're missing a whole bunch of steps that happened.

You forgot the part where the House took up debate on the Senate bill and passed the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 on March 21, 2010.  The Senate then passed the bill with two minor modifications on March 25, 2010.  The House ratified those modifications a few hours later.

Only after the House and Senate passed the same bill did the President sign it into law, on March 30, 2010.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Care_and_Education_Reconciliation_Act_of_2010
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll165.xml

[CDP45]

Let's not forget it was passed soley by democrats, a completely partisan vote. I still haven't heard of any other legislation passed without a single vote of the other party since the civil war.

[beltim]

I still haven't heard of any other legislation passed without a single vote of the other party since the civil war.

Then you haven't done a single bit of research.  In 2013 House Republicans voted unanimously 35% of the time, House Democrats voted unanimously 22% of the time, Senate Republicans voted unanimously 31% of the time, and Senate Democrats voted unanimously 52% of the time:

http://media.cq.com/votestudies/

[CDP45]

Any of those actually became laws? Let alone a massive intervention affecting basically everyone in the country?

[beltim]

Any of those actually became laws? Let alone a massive intervention affecting basically everyone in the country?

Maybe it'd be better for you to educate yourself instead of making pronouncements about things you don't appear to have knowledge of.

[Tetsuya Hondo]

Passed by a majority of democratically elected members of both houses of Congress = Conspiracy!

[CDP45]

Any of those actually became laws? Let alone a massive intervention affecting basically everyone in the country?

Maybe it'd be better for you to educate yourself instead of making pronouncements about things you don't appear to have knowledge of.

I'm asking you, anyone reading this, and Google of the last time a law was enacted without any opposition votes.  I can't find any examples since the civil war. Care to inform me otherwise or are you equally ignorant and just trying to hide that?

[xocotl]

Any of those actually became laws? Let alone a massive intervention affecting basically everyone in the country?

Maybe it'd be better for you to educate yourself instead of making pronouncements about things you don't appear to have knowledge of.

I'm asking you, anyone reading this, and Google of the last time a law was enacted without any opposition votes.  I can't find any examples since the civil war. Care to inform me otherwise or are you equally ignorant and just trying to hide that?

You clearly didn't search very hard for examples. I don't know when the last time was, but it was certainly more recent than the civil war. See for example the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 (103 HR 2264). Took about 2 seconds of Googling.

[beltim]

Any of those actually became laws? Let alone a massive intervention affecting basically everyone in the country?

Maybe it'd be better for you to educate yourself instead of making pronouncements about things you don't appear to have knowledge of.

I'm asking you, anyone reading this, and Google of the last time a law was enacted without any opposition votes.  I can't find any examples since the civil war. Care to inform me otherwise or are you equally ignorant and just trying to hide that?

I didn't know any before you posted, but a quick google search shows the budget of 93 passed without any opposition votes.  That one worked out pretty well.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1993

[sol]

beltim and xocotl, you're wasting your breath.  He doesn't care about facts.

Expect a rebuttal that insults you repeatedly instead of addressing your response.  It will probably contain the words "ignorant" and  "partisan" and accuse you of lying while also subtly suggesting you are personally responsible for this evil, evil law that kills babies and grandmas.

[milesdividendmd]

beltim and xocotl, you're wasting your breath.  He doesn't care about facts.

Expect a rebuttal that insults you repeatedly instead of addressing your response.  It will probably contain the words "ignorant" and  "partisan" and accuse you of lying while also subtly suggesting you are personally responsible for this evil, evil law that kills babies and grandmas.

+1

As a doctor, the thought of entering this debate was alluring, but I decided not to jump down the rat hole.

On the other hand it is extremely entertaining and enlightening to see the ongoing debate between beltim and xocotl, (let's call them the reality-based side) and the truthers on the other side.

(So thank you gents for fighting the good fight. The results could not be clearer. Keep on shining a light on ignorance.)

[DollarBill]

This shouldn't be a Dem vs Repub debate! This is why a two party system doesn't work!

Beltim had some good examples. Anyone else have more? I like reading them for some reason.

[milesdividendmd]

It's not. It's a reality vs ideology debate.

[UnleashHell]

Its bad don’t you know. Bad. Very very bad. It must be because they put the name of a President on it to mock it. 


No solutions  - just keep calling it bad and pointing out all the bits you don’t like.

Bad bad bad.

Fucking dullards.

[DollarBill]

It also looks like it's still being fought over in the court system see Sissell vs HHS.

[UnleashHell]

It also looks like it's still being fought over in the court system see Sissell vs HHS.

woohoo!! Exceelent.

more fights, no solutions.

Politicians wet dream.

[likeavision]

 

Plus, two party system doesn't work) but just for education to all.

This shouldn't be a Dem vs Repub debate! This is why a two party system doesn't work!

Yeah, it's a real shame the two-party system doesn't work in America.  It's only been around for most of it's history.  And the two current major political parties have only been in power for a century and a half.  Just imagine how great America would be if it had a system that actually worked.  If it worked, we could have built the interstate highway system and the Panama canal.  If it worked, we would have universal public education and a quality of health care that's the envy of the world.  If it worked, we could have pulled millions of elderly Americans out of poverty by creating Social Security and Medicare.  If it worked, we could have stepped in to help fight, win and end two world wars and our president would be known as the leader of the free world.  If it worked, maybe we could have even put a man on the moon.  It's a darn shame that the American experiment failed because we just couldn't make the two-party system work.

[CDP45]

beltim and xocotl, you're wasting your breath.  He doesn't care about facts.

Expect a rebuttal that insults you repeatedly instead of addressing your response.  It will probably contain the words "ignorant" and  "partisan" and accuse you of lying while also subtly suggesting you are personally responsible for this evil, evil law that kills babies and grandmas.

I only call you out when do lie and regurgitate partisan talking points devoid of evidence. Super example here sol. Lol.

[CDP45]

Any of those actually became laws? Let alone a massive intervention affecting basically everyone in the country?

Maybe it'd be better for you to educate yourself instead of making pronouncements about things you don't appear to have knowledge of.

I'm asking you, anyone reading this, and Google of the last time a law was enacted without any opposition votes.  I can't find any examples since the civil war. Care to inform me otherwise or are you equally ignorant and just trying to hide that?

You clearly didn't search very hard for examples. I don't know when the last time was, but it was certainly more recent than the civil war. See for example the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 (103 HR 2264). Took about 2 seconds of Googling.

I searched for "party line laws," "laws enacted without opposing party votes," "laws passed only republican votes," and nothing stood out, what did you search for? Is there a list of such federal laws?

[sol]

Expect a rebuttal that insults you repeatedly instead of addressing your response.  It will probably contain the words "ignorant" and  "partisan" and accuse you of lying

I only call you out when do lie and regurgitate partisan talking points devoid of evidence. Super example here sol. Lol.

You missed "ignorant". 

       

[arebelspy]

MOD NOTE: Moved to Off Topic.  Also this is very close to getting locked.  Argue with facts and don't be rude. Thanks.

[BCBiker]

Since this thread has devolved into essentially smut, I would like to divert the discussion to this thread where the discussion has turned to how Obamacare can help FIRE folks and how the law is actually changing health insurance in this country.

The law passed almost 5 years ago and it is unlikely to be repealed. Kind of a waste of time to argue about that.  Let's talk about the law's impact. Here is the link...

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/will-i-ever-be-able-to-get-health-insurance/

[DollarBill]

Arebelspy please do us a favor and just shut it down!