Mustachians with Depression/Anxiety?

[MoonPilgrim]

Hi, Mustachians--

Does anyone else struggle with depression/anxiety?  I was diagnosed in my teens, and have been in a state of semi-denial ever since, going on and off meds (bad) because part of me doesn't believe that depression isn't real--even though my rational brain knows that there are plenty of studies indicating there is an actual chemical imbalance behind it. 

I went back on meds a year ago after a particularly bad bout of the down and scareds--and I've stayed on them this time.  But it feels anti-mustachian to be depressed.  If I just ate better, took the stairs every time, thought better thoughts, and cleaned out my optimism gun, I would be fine, right?  Or not?  Is my "depression" just a result of my own laziness?  Note:  I don't have trouble believing *other* people can be depressed, I just have trouble believing *I* really am.

I found MMM in July 2012, and have been very faithfully growing my mustache, in hopes that maybe the financial security I'm providing for myself would bring some kind of peace and calm.  But even with all of the positive changes I've made, I still slip back down.  I'm tired, and frustrated, and just want a break from being me.  Anyone else?

[Nords]

If I just ate better, took the stairs every time, thought better thoughts, and cleaned out my optimism gun, I would be fine, right?  Or not?  Is my "depression" just a result of my own laziness?  Note:  I don't have trouble believing *other* people can be depressed, I just have trouble believing *I* really am.
I found MMM in July 2012, and have been very faithfully growing my mustache, in hopes that maybe the financial security I'm providing for myself would bring some kind of peace and calm.  But even with all of the positive changes I've made, I still slip back down.  I'm tired, and frustrated, and just want a break from being me.  Anyone else?

I have a close relative and a very good friend who've both been through clinical treatment for depression.  Both have had their careers cut short by it, and they've had to seek other careers with "less" stress.  They're both working, but they're both on varying forms of disability benefits and taking significant medications.  In other words, depression should be ruining their lives.

They both struggle to wean themselves from their medication-- because they're guys, and we all know that guys don't take meds.  They both have genetic and environmental triggers that cause setbacks, although both of them have strong family relationships to help them stay on track. 

They're both grudgingly accepting that they may need to stay on meds for the rest of their lives.  Their brains are not making the chemicals that will help them regulate their moods/attitudes.  One of them says that if he was a Type I diabetic then he wouldn't be trying to "wean" himself off insulin, so he shouldn't try to wean himself off his meds.  But Type I diabetics also have to work out and watch their diet, which he also does for his depression. 

I think the worst part of their day is that they're never really sure what's going to trigger them, or how much it's going to affect them.  They know what to avoid but they still (very occasionally) get blindsided.  They're a little nervous about making changes to their lives, or trying too many new things in too short a time.

If you didn't know them as I do, you'd see them as very successful people.  One of them is financially independent and the other is leading a great life on the road to FI.  But when you know them as I do, you see them as amazingly successful people.

I don't have an easy answer to your question.  However the closer you get to financial independence, the more control you'll have over your life and your own use of your time.  When you reach FI then you can simply avoid many of the stressors at your choice.  And when you get tired & frustrated, then you can take a nap anytime you want...

[James]

Thanks for posting, I am absolutely certain you are not alone in those thoughts and feelings.

Without knowing anything about you, I'm still make a couple comments about things I'm currently learning.  Some people are not able to be continually optimistic through sheer force of will.  Faking it until you feel it has some very valuable truth to it, but it  isn't always possible and doesn't always work.  I've found more recently that I'm happier when I'm not striving for happiness, and I am learning some of the most helpful advice from the stoics.  Let me know if you want a couple book suggestions.

I have no doubt others will chime in here with their own experience, advice, and support.  MMM is a different breed than you or I or many other types of personalities.  We can all support and learn from each other, without holding each other to our own standards of optimism and attitude.

Finally, the idea or feeling that depression isn't real is not at all unusual, but also not very helpful.  I'm very optimistic you will find what you need, I think the fact that you would step out and post something here is a sign you are willing to do what it take to make life work for you.  I'm sure there are plenty here willing to listen and offer help, much of it better than I can offer, and I wish you good luck in making changes to improve your enjoyment of life.

[nubbs180]

I have a diagnosed anxiety disorder, and am following the way of the Mustache, so you are not alone. 

I did the meds/counseling route back in 2008 (and only for about 6 months), and it has worked well enough for me that until this past month, I was pretty well in control of my life instead of the anxiety.  But what do you know, relapses happen, and I just dug out of my personal library the book that my counselor used to help me before.  I highly recommend it; it is called When Panic Attacks by Dr. David Burns.  It has some 40 ways to self-treat different manifestations of depression and anxiety.  See if your local library has it.

And depending on where you live, or how much outdoor time you have, on top of the eating well, taking the stairs, etc, I'd add get a full-spectrum "sun lamp."  It may seem a little hokey, but from what I've seen in my life, and a few others it can work wonders if you don't get enough sun! 

[Woolie]

You certainly aren't alone. I went through a bout of depression/anxiety several years ago tied to my job. I was also working for a very difficult person and the uncertainty of their response on any given matter always kept me on edge. It wasn't a fun job to work for a very long time.

I took medication then and also took some during my divorce in 2011. There is nothing shameful in needing help and taking what help is available.

I will say that in the last year I had begun to feel down again, extra stressed by work and knew that something had to change. Like you, I found MMM and began to put some ideas into practice. And I do feel better. I'm not saying it's a cure by any means, but having a plan, a path and seeing results can help.

One big one for me was realizing that I do need to work from home at least 1 day a week. My boss isn't a huge fan of working from home but he does allow it. I have a very non-mustachian drive to work and though I am trying to change that, it isn't happening quickly. But I can take care of myself and work from home one day a week. It's already made a significant difference for me in just one month.

We're all going to have set backs and we have to see them as part of the journey.

[TLV]

I developed panic disorder a few years ago, and I've had a bout or two of severe depression along the way. My particular case seems to be rather unique, so I won't offer any advice other than find a therapist/counselor who knows their stuff.

As for it "not being real" - it is, literally, all in your head, but it's no less real than your brain is.

[John74]

I have lived with anxiety for the past decade. I generally can manage without medication, but there are times when taking medication helps to break the cycle of negativity. I hate taking medication and try to do without as much as I can, but when things get bad enough it really helps.

Of course, there are things you can do to fight this. As hard as it is, don't let it rule/ruin your life. You have to push yourself in ways that make you anxious sometimes (the basis of cognitive behavioral therapy, one of the most commonly used therapy to treat anxiety). Depression often sets in when you let the anxiety restrict your life in ways that make you unhappy. So while financial independence might relieve some of the stress, it should by no means be an excuse to stop pushing yourself. Financial independence gives us the choice to recoil and avoid things that make us anxious, but that only gives anxiety free rein.

[mustachecat]

I struggle with anxiety intermittently. I’m fine 95% of the time, but when it flares, I’m useless. When I’m fine, I convince myself that I’ll be permanently fine; when I’m not fine, the idea of reaching out for professional help is overwhelming.. as is basically everything else. My flare-ups have intensified over the past five years, but have also spaced out. 

I was also diagnosed with depression as a teen and was on a battery of different medications until college. I didn’t have a great experience on the meds, but I know that they’ve probably made some advancements since then. With the exception of one year, it’s never been as bad as it was when I was younger, so that’s another excuse for not trying the medication route… but I really don’t know. Many of my anxiety flare-ups are tangled up with depressive episodes.

I don’t know what to do. Like you, I’m convinced that I can bootstrap my way out of this. Also like you, if someone told me he or she was feeling depressed, I’d of course believe them and urge them to consider therapy and medication. It just feels like a cop-out to me because I’m not “that” anxious or depressed. Even though, when I look at things honestly, I’m really a mess when it hits. (But even as I type that, I want to downplay it immediately. Urgh.)

[StarswirlTheMustached]

Eeyup. Depression and anxiety both; not currently medicated, but I have been.

Reading the stoics helps me. Negative visualization and obsessive backup planning takes the sting out of my anxiety -- as resiliency/preparedness writer Sharon Astyk says, "work is the only antidote to fear"
... but sometimes it's too bad for that to help. Sometimes I'm too depressed to find the motivation to do that work. That's when a good councilor can really help you.

When it comes to mustashian things, the biggest help, for me, was switching to a bicycle commute.* Two reasons: one, they always recommend excersize for the anxious and depressed, but who can get into a gym when they feel like that? Not me. I *have* to go to work anyway, so if I'm biking-- bam! Exercise. Burn off some fear toxins. Reason the second, it gives you a sense of accomplishment each day you do it. So if you find yourself thinking "I am a worthless piece of shit who can't do anything" you stop yourself and say "No, I can do something! I biked to work today, and most people can't say that."

When it comes to anxiety, I think a key realization for me is when my councilor told me to start treating myself like I would anyone else. Whenever I had an anxiety attack, I'd always beat myself up over it-- boot camp motivation, I guess? Of course it does not work. It makes everything oh so much worse. If you had a friend who was a shaking, crying, I-can't-breath wreck, you'd not dare say any of that. You'd soothe them, comfort them, calm them, and then maybe try and find a way to do whatever it was that needed doing that won't trigger another attack. That sort of self-compassion has been a big help for me, when it comes to anxiety.

Oh, and watch My Little Pony : Friendship is Magic. It exists to make you smile.


*A little 'stache of fuck-you money doesn't hurt, either, since plan Z is always "I guess I can live off savings for a while" My ultimate FIRE dream is to homestead, which is the ultimate in fuck-you money, I suppose.

[zinnie]

Hi, Mustachians--

Does anyone else struggle with depression/anxiety?  I was diagnosed in my teens, and have been in a state of semi-denial ever since, going on and off meds (bad) because part of me doesn't believe that depression isn't real--even though my rational brain knows that there are plenty of studies indicating there is an actual chemical imbalance behind it. 

I went back on meds a year ago after a particularly bad bout of the down and scareds--and I've stayed on them this time.  But it feels anti-mustachian to be depressed.  If I just ate better, took the stairs every time, thought better thoughts, and cleaned out my optimism gun, I would be fine, right?  Or not?  Is my "depression" just a result of my own laziness?  Note:  I don't have trouble believing *other* people can be depressed, I just have trouble believing *I* really am.

I found MMM in July 2012, and have been very faithfully growing my mustache, in hopes that maybe the financial security I'm providing for myself would bring some kind of peace and calm.  But even with all of the positive changes I've made, I still slip back down.  I'm tired, and frustrated, and just want a break from being me.  Anyone else?

Edited to remove personal info

[twinge]

But it feels anti-mustachian to be depressed.  If I just ate better, took the stairs every time, thought better thoughts, and cleaned out my optimism gun, I would be fine, right?  Or not?  Is my "depression" just a result of my own laziness?  Note:  I don't have trouble believing *other* people can be depressed, I just have trouble believing *I* really am.

Well, a recent meta-analysis of research on the effectiveness of various food and exercise on depression found that most of the findings were overblown for people with anything but the mildest, situational form of depression, so you can alleviate your guilt that if you just were a little healthier in your habits you could beat this thing.   Cognitive Behavioral Therapies tend to work with mild to moderate depression.  Sometimes medication needs to be coupled with it.

And the majority of people with depression/anxiety believe that they don't "really" have it or could think their way out of it somehow etc. And while you can think your ways out of part of it, it's not always effective.  And sometimes something happens where they have to confront the obvious--unfortunately, like mustachecat says, that usually happens when you can't do anything about it.

I have a friend with severe depression issues that weren't helped by medication who has been pursuing a CBT path off her meds with moderate success.  One thing she did--which I love--was write a pre-emptive letter to her friends about what she would like us to do if we ever feel a bit of doubt about her mental health.  She gave us stock questions we should ask her (Just dumb things like "So, are you really okay?" but they have a specific shared meaning now) which she can either shrug off, or let us know "no" without much effort.  I have one "checking in" question that I ask her pretty much every time I talk to her, and one question that I ask if I'm maybe concerned and one question I ask if I'm REALLY concerned.  If she shrugs them off and  I still have my doubts, she gave me her therapist's information to call.  In a weird way, this has made all of her friends all a little more watchful yet also more trusting that she IS okay because we know what to do and that she's thought it through.  Before we would all sort of talk behind her back about our worries about her etc.  which can become--or be perceived as-- gossip-y and unhelpful even when it wasn't meant to be.  This new approach feels so helpful and healthy.

[StarswirlTheMustached]

@Twinge:
Wow. Having a close group of friends like that must do wonders.
I disagree about eating well and exercise --not that it's going to cure your depression if you've anything but the mildest case, that's absurd and only a quick-fix society like ours would buy into it-- but that even when things are fairly severe, it can help. Maybe just a little, maybe even just from shutting up the nagging voice in your head that says you should, but is something. And something is better than nothing.

Now, this is just my experience, but it's actually a fairly fine line that separates depression from suicidal tendencies -- "I want to die" is only two words different from "I'm going to die"-- and its the little things whose effects are overblown that can keep you on the right side of that line.

Of course, if you find yourself near that line, GET HELP. You're not fine, you're not wasting their time or medical resources, you don't have to step aside for someone more needy-- get help. Taking pills doesn't make you weak; seeing a shrink doesn't make you weak; being institutionalized doesn't make you weak. It takes a strong person to stand up to their illness and society's stigma of mental illness and get the help they need.

And yes, it is hard to admit that you have a problem. Perhaps the most insidious aspect of this illness is that it convinces you that feeling horrible is your own fault, or somehow normal. It's not. You can get help, and it can get better.

[Osprey]

*raises hand* I hear you.
Look it's difficult to give yourself as much of "a break" as you would to anyone else. But it's up to you to decide when to slog through and when to make use of the resources available. Sometimes you need meds and sometimes you need counselling. In my opinion that's perfectly fine.

[twinge]

I disagree about eating well and exercise --not that it's going to cure your depression if you've anything but the mildest case, that's absurd and only a quick-fix society like ours would buy into it-- but that even when things are fairly severe, it can help. Maybe just a little, maybe even just from shutting up the nagging voice in your head that says you should, but is something. And something is better than nothing.

I actually agree with you here--it's just that it was sort of asserted as this "cure-all" with some studies claiming that it was as or more effective than medication and this whole movement for doctors to "prescribe" exercise etc.  It can do SOME good, and any good is better than none.  But the opposite side of that is that it can make you feel like a loser who hasn't eaten well enough, exercised enough and now you're suffering with depression for it and that if you could just get your ass in gear you'd be fine.  (And also it could also give non-depressed people a smugness that they must be eating,exercising thinking better and that's why they're not afflicted--and the public a reason not to support as much mental health services for depression...)  And the research evidence just doesn't support that belief.  So I prefer to say, try and see if it helps a bit but be aware that it's not likely to be enough for many people. 

[DoubleDown]

A lot of the women in my family have a thyroid deficiency. Nobody thinks they're "weak" because of it, and I doubt all the exercise or positive thoughts in the world would make much of a difference, if any, for them. The thing that helps them is taking thyroid hormones prescribed by the doctor to correct the imbalance. As Nords pointed out, diabetics take insulin.

I would think a deficiency or imbalance of any other chemical in your brain is no different. I would not shy away for a moment from taking medications that might help correct that, there's no weakness or shame in that. It seems no more likely you can just "will" your way out of it than a diabetic could "will" away their need for insulin.