Most chronically mismanaged large professional sports team

[nereo]

This is just for fun...

I grew up in the suburbs of DC when football was by far the most popular sport in the city.  For the last twenty years the franchise has made one monumental blunder after another, and has had an abysmal record to show for it (depending on how you view it, in the bottom 3 on a league that’s built on parity).  Worse, in a league that’s particularly morally dubious they’ve done several things which are low even by league standards.

Anyway... despite being a big fan during my formative years I’d argue they are the most mismanaged team in the NFL for the past two decades. In my mind there’s nothing that comes close in MLB either.

But I don’t know much about the other leagues, and in particular those abroad (i.e. the Championship soccer leagues, cricket, etc). 

What professional team gets your nod for the worst managed?  To count it can’t just be one or two seasons... it has to be a decade or longer.  And a losing record isn’t reason enough alone.

[jinga nation]

@nereo too scared to type Redskins?

I'll counter with my local Tampa Bay Buccaneers, aka the Yucks, aka Suckaneers. Since the Glazer era, after Dungy's departure and the next season with Gruden, it was all downhill. But it all makes sense as they have the same owners as Man Utd, who went down the drain after Alex Ferguson's departure.

I think maybe Parma in Serie A might also get my nod. Newcastle United in Premier League.

[nereo]

@nereo too scared to type Redskins?

Not too scared - I just don’t seem the need to repeat a racially insensitive slur, particularly one that’s so universally opposed by the group in question.

...and that’s just the tip of the iceberg on what the team is rotten.  Consider Foster - a player with a criminal record and charges serious enough that 30 other teams took a look at him and said “nope!”... to which the ‘Skins (bout as close to their name as I’m likely to get) thought: ‘yeah, he’ll fit right in!”.

Or the latest Trent Williams saga, where they refused to even cover cancer treatments for their 7-time pro-bowl star defensive player and simultaneously refused to trade him or allow him to seek medical treatment 3rd party.  Wtf?

At least Dungy-then-Gruden were in the more recent past. 

[HPstache]

Either the Washington Redskins (potatoes) or the Mark Davis managed Raiders.  Tough to choose between the two...

[Papa bear]

Cleveland Browns have entered the chat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OtherJen]

I live just outside of Detroit. I love the Lions, but...yeah.

[dandarc]

Speaking of Detroit, did you know, that had (if?) the Redwings won every game that has been postponed this season, they'd still have their worst point total since 1985-86?

*Most recent strike-shortened season excluded, however that year they were over .500, so I think they'd have likely been better than the 2019-20 Redwings on points with another 34 games. They actually cannot match the 94-95 point total even if they win out.

Granted the wings made the playoffs 4 years ago, but it has been more than a decade since they played for the cup.

[nereo]

Cleveland Browns have entered the chat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve always known the Browns as the one team that Washington consistently did better than. But I don’t know enough to understand why. What did they do wrong?

[Papa bear]

Cleveland Browns have entered the chat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve always known the Browns as the one team that Washington consistently did better than. But I don’t know enough to understand why. What did they do wrong?

Sigh... it’s been rough being a browns fan. It starts here with Art Model moving the franchise to Baltimore and all of the controversy surrounding that. We had a good team and solid coaching (Bill Belichick, some nfl fans may have heard of him), but senior asshat still moves the team.  See below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Browns_relocation_controversy?wprov=sfti1

Still, we get to keep the name, and football shall return!  The past 21 years have been, well, not very satisfying. 

We’ve been through, technically 3 owners, the most recent and current, Jimmy Haslam, has had some problems with the company that is his primary source of income, as a few executives are now in jail for fraud. 

We’ve had 9 general managers, 11 head coaches (more than half in the past 20 years of our more than 70 year existence) and have had 30 different QB’s start a game under center.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox8.com/sports/infamous-browns-quarterback-jersey-replaced-with-no-6/amp/

We’ve gone 93-210-1 since 2000 for by far the worst record in the league.  We have gone 0-16 and 1-15 during this time, and struggle to ever beat our “rivals.” 

Only 2 winning seasons, 1 playoff appearance, and 0 playoff wins. 

This is just the 35,000 foot view. 

Go Browns!  This is our year!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EvenSteven]

The NY Knickerbockers have a strong case.

[marty998]

There is a football competition in Australia called AFL. You guys would probably not recognise the game at all, but we have had a couple of players from that competition go to the NFL and play as Punters.

In 2011 the competition expanded to 18 teams, with the inclusion of the Gold Coast Suns.

The Suns were given extra money, an extraordinary number of top draft picks and special salary cap favours in order to succeed but as of today they have a 24% win record (47 wins, 151 losses, 1 draw), no finals appearances (top 8 at end of season). Their highest finish has been 12th, and they've finished 17th or 18th 5 times.

Longest losing streak was 21 games, and they are currently on an 18 game losing streak.

They don't have too many off field incidents that I'm aware of. But something must be amiss for things to be this bad.

[former player]

There seems to be some idea in this thread that the aims of owning/managing a large professional sports team are to win things and be decent human beings.

Does that make this the MMM thread displaying the most naiveite ever?

[nereo]

There seems to be some idea in this thread that the aims of owning/managing a large professional sports team are to win things and be decent human beings.

Does that make this the MMM thread displaying the most naiveite ever?

I'm under no illusions that pro sports teams are benevolent organizations.  They are for-profit entertainment companies.  However, some are examples of effectively run organizations that occasionally do some good in the community, while others are just dreadful (and not just with winning games/matches).

[nereo]

Cleveland Browns have entered the chat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve always known the Browns as the one team that Washington consistently did better than. But I don’t know enough to understand why. What did they do wrong?

Sigh... it’s been rough being a browns fan.
...
We’ve been through, technically 3 owners, the most recent and current, Jimmy Haslam, has had some problems with the company that is his primary source of income, as a few executives are now in jail for fraud. 

We’ve had 9 general managers, 11 head coaches (more than half in the past 20 years of our more than 70 year existence) and have had 30 different QB’s start a game under center.

interesting.  Washington has had just one owner in the last two decades (which I'd argue is the root of the entire problem), but it's been a virtually carnival wheel at other key positions like QB as well.  15 different QBs under center started in two decades, which doesn't count doesn't count at least five who were bounced out and back in over several years.  Of them, only one (Cambell) started more than 33 games.  Nine head coaches started a season,and three have been installed as 'interim' to replace one fired midseason.

hmm... the Browns really are looking worse in comparison....   will come back to this later.

[ericrugiero]

I'd have to say the browns would be top (or bottom?) of my list.  So many high draft picks, lots of passionate fans and nothing to show for it. 

I can remember the Redskins being good in my lifetime but I don't remember the Browns being anything but bad.  Poor management and bad culture seems like the culprit. 

The one positive thing about the Browns is that they have "less" criminal activity than some of the other NFL teams like the Bengals or Raiders.  No NFL team is great in this regard.  Most of them are just slightly better than congress. 

[DadJokes]

I'd put it between the NFL's Cleveland Browns & the NHL's Ottawa Senators.

Both are just continuous waves of dysfunction.

[JetBlast]

The Miami Dolphins after Dan Marino deserve a nomination.  Not as awful as Cleveland has been, but they have every advantage to attract talent. Major market, vibrant city with great nightlife, nice weather most of the year, and no state income tax. The Dolphins have no excuse for two decades of ineptitude.

I'd put it between the NFL's Cleveland Browns & the NHL's Ottawa Senators.

Both are just continuous waves of dysfunction.

The Arizona Coyotes wave hello and look jealously at the success of the Ottawa Senators.

[DadJokes]

The Miami Dolphins after Dan Marino deserve a nomination.  Not as awful as Cleveland has been, but they have every advantage to attract talent. Major market, vibrant city with great nightlife, nice weather most of the year, and no state income tax. The Dolphins have no excuse for two decades of ineptitude.

I'd put it between the NFL's Cleveland Browns & the NHL's Ottawa Senators.

Both are just continuous waves of dysfunction.

The Arizona Coyotes wave hello and look jealously at the success of the Ottawa Senators.

As bad as the 'yotes have been, the organization hasn't been a laughing stock like Ottawa. Even when successful, Melnyk has run that organization terribly.

[Psychstache]

Cleveland Browns have entered the chat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’ve always known the Browns as the one team that Washington consistently did better than. But I don’t know enough to understand why. What did they do wrong?

I have a cousin who worked for the Browns for a couple of years (high up on the business side). He has worked in various leagues for various orgs for decades now, and I have never seen him more miserable than when he worked there. According to him, every aspect of the organization, not just the team, is a dumpster fire of mismanagement, terrible communication, and complete lack of consistency or systems.

[EngagedToFIRE]

The Knicks seems like the obvious answer right now.

[nereo]

The Knicks seems like the obvious answer right now.

They've been abysmal over the last several years, but have still managed several winning seasons this decade, no?
What have they done beyond losing to be considered for 'chronically mismanaged team'?

[EngagedToFIRE]

The Knicks seems like the obvious answer right now.

They've been abysmal over the last several years, but have still managed several winning seasons this decade, no?
What have they done beyond losing to be considered for 'chronically mismanaged team'?

Everyone hates the owner.  No stars want the play there.  They have been a disaster lately.  They have essentially lost their prestige in the biggest market in the country, as the stars and momentum are all with the Nets.  They seem to make the news regularly for dumb shit, pissing off their biggest fan (Spike Lee), banning people for telling the owner to sell the team, etc.  My comment was about the current state of the team, "right now".. not historically.  But the Knicks have been a total dumpster fire as an organization for quite a few years now.

[Cromacster]

I'd have to say the browns would be top (or bottom?) of my list.  So many high draft picks, lots of passionate fans and nothing to show for it. 

I can remember the Redskins being good in my lifetime but I don't remember the Browns being anything but bad.  Poor management and bad culture seems like the culprit. 

The one positive thing about the Browns is that they have "less" criminal activity than some of the other NFL teams like the Bengals or Raiders.  No NFL team is great in this regard.  Most of them are just slightly better than congress.

Passionate fans, relatively low payroll compared to other teams, and NFL profit sharing.  Sounds like good business.

People always rag on the Browns, but they are under the assumption that they want to spend money to win.

[sixwings]

The Miami Dolphins after Dan Marino deserve a nomination.  Not as awful as Cleveland has been, but they have every advantage to attract talent. Major market, vibrant city with great nightlife, nice weather most of the year, and no state income tax. The Dolphins have no excuse for two decades of ineptitude.

I'd put it between the NFL's Cleveland Browns & the NHL's Ottawa Senators.

Both are just continuous waves of dysfunction.

The Arizona Coyotes wave hello and look jealously at the success of the Ottawa Senators.

As bad as the 'yotes have been, the organization hasn't been a laughing stock like Ottawa. Even when successful, Melnyk has run that organization terribly.

Post Gretzky Edmonton Oilers is also a pretty good selection if we're talking hockey. Even with generational talent they still can't make the playoffs.

[nereo]

I'd have to say the browns would be top (or bottom?) of my list.  So many high draft picks, lots of passionate fans and nothing to show for it. 

I can remember the Redskins being good in my lifetime but I don't remember the Browns being anything but bad.  Poor management and bad culture seems like the culprit. 

The one positive thing about the Browns is that they have "less" criminal activity than some of the other NFL teams like the Bengals or Raiders.  No NFL team is great in this regard.  Most of them are just slightly better than congress.

Passionate fans, relatively low payroll compared to other teams, and NFL profit sharing.  Sounds like good business.

People always rag on the Browns, but they are under the assumption that they want to spend money to win.

Not widely appreciated is how most sports leagues - and the NFL in particular - are regional monopolies with a guaranteed profit sharing agreement.  Hard to think of a better business model if you are lucky enough to be an owner.  Even with billions of dollars you can't buy into the league without the owners' approval, and you cannot create your own team.  When you suck you get high draft picks in an attempt at parity and all the revenue from 'Official NFL Merchandise' is split among the teams.

The unfortunate result is that a few teams (notably Cleveland and Washington DC) can be absolute dumpster fires but (at least in the case of DC) wind up STILL making the owner 8 figures every year.

[dandarc]

European system is way better. You can start a team pretty much anywhere, and over time if your on-field results are good enough you can make it into the first division of whatever country / sport your team is involved in.

I mean, there are huge advantages to already being established in the premier division, so actually probably a better business move to just try to buy one of those teams if you have the requisite billions of dollars on hand.

But still, you actually could bootstrap a team from nothing if you wanted to try.

[LifeHappens]

I live just outside of Detroit. I love the Lions, but...yeah.

It's hard to argue with the Browns, but the Lions come close. The Ford family has been more than happy to screw the fans while fielding mediocre to downright terrible teams for decades.

Remember when all the coaches and GMs had to have a name that started with "M"?

[nereo]

European system is way better. You can start a team pretty much anywhere, and over time if your on-field results are good enough you can make it into the first division of whatever country / sport your team is involved in.

I mean, there are huge advantages to already being established in the premier division, so actually probably a better business move to just try to buy one of those teams if you have the requisite billions of dollars on hand.

But still, you actually could bootstrap a team from nothing if you wanted to try.

Yeah, I grew up watching American Football, but now that I’m more aware of how utterly craptastic it is as an entity I have a hard time even watching marquee games, and I’ve stopped giving the league my money with any of their revenue streams. When I watch I’ll do it from a bar, more for the atmosphere than anything... at least I did before Covid.

[DadJokes]

European system is way better. You can start a team pretty much anywhere, and over time if your on-field results are good enough you can make it into the first division of whatever country / sport your team is involved in.

I mean, there are huge advantages to already being established in the premier division, so actually probably a better business move to just try to buy one of those teams if you have the requisite billions of dollars on hand.

But still, you actually could bootstrap a team from nothing if you wanted to try.

If I understand correctly, there isn't much parity in those leagues. The same few teams are at the top of the premier league every year, while the rest are just fighting to avoid relegation.

[nereo]

European system is way better. You can start a team pretty much anywhere, and over time if your on-field results are good enough you can make it into the first division of whatever country / sport your team is involved in.

I mean, there are huge advantages to already being established in the premier division, so actually probably a better business move to just try to buy one of those teams if you have the requisite billions of dollars on hand.

But still, you actually could bootstrap a team from nothing if you wanted to try.

If I understand correctly, there isn't much parity in those leagues. The same few teams are at the top of the premier league every year, while the rest are just fighting to avoid relegation.

...or much of a salary cap?  Kind of like MLB, where records and championships are strongly correlated to how much they spend?

[Telecaster]

As far as year in and year out suckage, I think the Browns take the cake.  They draft bad, they can't keep their players, yet every once in a while they somehow they wind up with a talented roster, and they still can't win.  I don't know what the problem is there, but they can't seem to do anything right.

But as far as just stupid that we the public are privy to, Washington is the worst.  And second place isn't close.  Daniel Snyder is without question the worst owner in the NFL.  He has made so many epically bad decisions it is hard even to list them.  Even worse,  his ego is so big he won't listen to people who actually know what they are doing even though he pays them top dollar.  I'm certain he feels passionate about his franchise and winning, but he's too big of a jerk to run an organization capable of making that happen.  He took one of the best fan bases in the NFL and turned it into dust. 

[former player]

European system is way better. You can start a team pretty much anywhere, and over time if your on-field results are good enough you can make it into the first division of whatever country / sport your team is involved in.

I mean, there are huge advantages to already being established in the premier division, so actually probably a better business move to just try to buy one of those teams if you have the requisite billions of dollars on hand.

But still, you actually could bootstrap a team from nothing if you wanted to try.

If I understand correctly, there isn't much parity in those leagues. The same few teams are at the top of the premier league every year, while the rest are just fighting to avoid relegation.

Leicester?