Mom wants to visit a tourist site that I find abhorrent. Do I go?

[Freedom2016]

My mom, who is turning 80 in a few months, and is in declining health, has expressed strong interest in visiting the Creation Museum / Noah's Ark tourist site in Kentucky - as a family.

To say I have mixed feelings about going vastly understates how much I actively do not want to go. I grew up fundamentalist but am functionally an atheist at this point, with lots of lingering resentment about what I was taught growing up. This monument to scientific illiteracy and historical fiction is anethema to me. However, these thoughts and feelings are undiscussable. Mom prays for me every day to recover my faith and she has told me she can't handle hearing me talk about my lack of faith thereof.

My sisters also have mixed feelings about going, though not as strong as mine. They figure Mom rarely asks for anything, this is a bucket list item for her, and it will mean a lot to her for us all to go together.

It will mean travel for all of us, as none of us lives in Kentucky. I floated the idea of us footing the bill for Mom & Dad to go on their own, but my sisters think that won't fly. I can't realistically beg off for financial reasons, as it's no secret that DH and I did very well this year.

In short, I think ultimately I will feel angry if I do go, rolling my eyes at the exhibit and possibly unable to hold my tongue. But I will likely feel worse if I don't go, because it is certain to make an old woman in her last couple of years needlessly worry about her daughter who has "gone astray."
 
What would you do? 

[FIRE Artist]

Go.  And put on a happy face.   

Take it as an opportunity to learn about how sophisticated the argument for the other side actually is, I find that eye opening in an entertaining way - talk about alternative facts.  I saw a video, I think on Netflix a few years back, which was a "scientific" argument against the big bang theory, with Christian scientists who make it their business to come up with alternative theories, it certainly didn't change my mind, but it gave me a new appreciation for how sophisticated the arguments against have become. 

The eye rolling and attitude throwing is completely a choice in this case, and one I recommend you put in check, if only because you aren't 11.

[Kris]

That's a rough one. I completely understand why you find that place abhorrent. Ugh.

Personally, I would probably go on the trip and take her there, with a generous smile and no judgment at all, but decline to go in myself. 

[TrMama]

How will you feel about this episode after she's gone? Will you regret having gone, or not having gone?

[SunnyDays]

Of course go.  I understand your distaste, but really, what's the harm?  Just tell your mom you agree to go only because you love her and it's important to her.  Then don't get into any debates on beliefs, your or hers.  Just smile and nod!  I'm sure you've spent more time and money on worse things in the past!

[Freedom2016]

The eye rolling and attitude throwing is completely a choice in this case, and one I recommend you put in check, if only because you aren't 11.

Touche. I probably should have written it as, "I am going to have a hard time not rolling my eyes and holding my tongue." I do that now (hold my tongue etc), when my parents get going about Fox news conspiracies. I work hard not to engage, and I demure as much as possible, but I am usually screaming on the inside.

[Freedom2016]

Of course go.  I understand your distaste, but really, what's the harm?  Just tell your mom you agree to go only because you love her and it's important to her.  Then don't get into any debates on beliefs, your or hers.  Just smile and nod!  I'm sure you've spent more time and money on worse things in the past!

Thank you; good suggestions on how to frame it to mom.

But to your question, 'what's the harm?' Well, there was a lot of psychological damage from my years of evangelical upbringing, that I spent years in therapy unwinding. So, yes, I am sensitive to being back in that kind of environment.

[Freedom2016]

That's a rough one. I completely understand why you find that place abhorrent. Ugh.

Personally, I would probably go on the trip and take her there, with a generous smile and no judgment at all, but decline to go in myself.

Thanks for the empathy. :) Interesting idea for me to ponder - going to KY and being with her before and after, but not going inside. Hmm.

[Freedom2016]

How will you feel about this episode after she's gone? Will you regret having gone, or not having gone?

Good question. I think the latter, which is why I think I will probably go... though I dread it.

Maybe what I most need are strategies for managing myself and my feelings.

[Cpa Cat]

I took a look at it and was doing to say: No big deal. It's mostly just models and displays showing bible stories. And a life-sized version of Noah's Ark that you can tour, which looked moderately amusing.

Then I saw the list of upcoming speakers and I was deeply offended by one of them.

I don't think I would choose to attend, given that they host intolerant speakers as "education."

I would tell my family that I would like to visit with them in Kentucky and enjoy some time with them, but I won't be going to the museum.

[KBecks]

Can you look at this as spending time with your elderly parents and a gift to them?  Who cares about the setting. 

Do they serve beer?  If they do... have one.

[BECABECA]

Haha, I clicked on this post thinking “how bad could it be, just go” and then I saw how bad it could be. Wow, yeah, I’m in a similar situation and I wouldn’t be able to go.

I would totally do what @Kris suggested, go on the trip but not go into that place. Being a supportive child shouldn’t require compromising all your morals. In that thread of logic, you should rejoin the church since saving your soul is probably on her bucket list too.

[RetiredAt63]

Sometimes setting does matter. Would you ask a Jew to go to a Nazi rally to make a relative happy?  A black person to go to a KKK rally to make a relative happy?   I'm sure others can come up with equally icky examples.  If going to this museum  would bring out equally strong feelings in the OP,  then no, don't go. Personally I  would not want them to get my attendance money, and tacit approval by going.  But I  might be tempted just to see the arguments presented.  But it would not be triggering for me the way it would be for the OP.

[EvenSteven]

As a counter to other posters, I can definitely see some harm in shoveling over hundreds of dollars to fundamentalist religious groups that spread hatred and ignorance all around the world.

I would go on the trip with your family, but decline to go to the ark. While they are there you can find something fun to do in Cincinnati.

[KBecks]

or go to a distillery...

[Luke Warm]

sounds like the perfect time do do some 'shrooms. JK.

[Watchmaker]

I like the suggestion of going to Kentucky with them but not to the museum. There are no circumstances in which I would give that museum any money.

[DadJokes]

My mom, who is turning 80 in a few months, and is in declining health, has expressed strong interest in visiting the Creation Museum / Noah's Ark tourist site in Kentucky - as a family.

To say I have mixed feelings about going vastly understates how much I actively do not want to go. I grew up fundamentalist but am functionally an atheist at this point, with lots of lingering resentment about what I was taught growing up. This monument to scientific illiteracy and historical fiction is anethema to me. However, these thoughts and feelings are undiscussable. Mom prays for me every day to recover my faith and she has told me she can't handle hearing me talk about my lack of faith thereof.

My sisters also have mixed feelings about going, though not as strong as mine. They figure Mom rarely asks for anything, this is a bucket list item for her, and it will mean a lot to her for us all to go together.

It will mean travel for all of us, as none of us lives in Kentucky. I floated the idea of us footing the bill for Mom & Dad to go on their own, but my sisters think that won't fly. I can't realistically beg off for financial reasons, as it's no secret that DH and I did very well this year.

In short, I think ultimately I will feel angry if I do go, rolling my eyes at the exhibit and possibly unable to hold my tongue. But I will likely feel worse if I don't go, because it is certain to make an old woman in her last couple of years needlessly worry about her daughter who has "gone astray."
 
What would you do?

Inviting you on a religious trip is a great way for her to hear about your lack of faith.

As long as you actually care about your mother, then I would do as EvenSteven suggests. Go on the trip, but don't give your money to that ridiculous museum.

As someone surrounded by religious people, I feel your pain.

[MayDay]

I definitely would not go.

But she's old!!! Is not a reason to do things for old people.

I'd decline and if she pushes, I'd say something like "mom, you know I'm not religious. I'm happy to explain my beliefs more, or we can leave it be. Which would you prefer?".

Normally opening it up for debate it a terrible idea, but it sounds like she actually doesn't want to hear about it.

[ysette9]

How will you feel about this episode after she's gone? Will you regret having gone, or not having gone?

I think this is the best lens through which to view this decision. My grandmother was also very religious and would pray that my sister and I and my mother would get back on the cuit train so “we can all be in heaven together”. She really truly believed this to be reality and there was no dissuading her. When I visited my aunt and uncle (with whom she lived) I was always invited to go to church but I always declined. I am perfectly at peace with that decision now that she is gone. Partially there was the lingering revulsion/PTSD finding myself back in the church I had grown up in, and partially I didn’t want to feel like I had sold out on my values for appearances. I can completely understand how someone else would make a different call in the same situation and have that be the right decision for him/her, so no judgement from me if the right answer is to go.

[Poundwise]

Go, be gracious, and take lots of photos. But since you're at MMM, I suggest you look hard to see if you can find discounts, whether it be through public library passes, Groupon, free days, etc. 

Do you have a landmark birthday coming up? Maybe next time YOU can ask for a family trip to a science based natural history museum. If you feel surges of resentment during the trip, you can soothe yourself by fantasizing about taking the family to various places that you feel would open their eyes.

[OtherJen]

Of course go.  I understand your distaste, but really, what's the harm?  Just tell your mom you agree to go only because you love her and it's important to her.  Then don't get into any debates on beliefs, your or hers.  Just smile and nod!  I'm sure you've spent more time and money on worse things in the past!

Thank you; good suggestions on how to frame it to mom.

But to your question, 'what's the harm?' Well, there was a lot of psychological damage from my years of evangelical upbringing, that I spent years in therapy unwinding. So, yes, I am sensitive to being back in that kind of environment.

I hear you. That sort of evangelical bullshit was the cause of a lot of emotional abuse during my teen years, and one of the main reasons why I bailed out of my parents' house as soon as I could escape to college. I'm an atheist now, and I don't think I would be able to give money to that place or be able to hold my tongue once inside. I also refuse to be proselytized by family and friends. I'm happy not to discuss my atheism with them but that respect has to go both ways. I only attend religious services involving weddings or funerals.

Other atheists/areligious people without a history of religious trauma may be able to appreciate the entertainment value, like my friend who was raised in a non-religious home. She went, took a bunch of crazy photos, and found the whole mess hugely entertaining.

[sherr]

How will you feel about this episode after she's gone? Will you regret having gone, or not having gone?

I think this is the best lens through which to view this decision. My grandmother was also very religious and would pray that my sister and I and my mother would get back on the cuit train so “we can all be in heaven together”. She really truly believed this to be reality and there was no dissuading her. When I visited my aunt and uncle (with whom she lived) I was always invited to go to church but I always declined. I am perfectly at peace with that decision now that she is gone. Partially there was the lingering revulsion/PTSD finding myself back in the church I had grown up in, and partially I didn’t want to feel like I had sold out on my values for appearances. I can completely understand how someone else would make a different call in the same situation and have that be the right decision for him/her, so no judgement from me if the right answer is to go.

This is not even close to a fair comparison. There is a world of difference between "going to church with them" and "funding extremist conspiracy-theorists who's mission in life is to stamp out all scientific knowledge and free thought." I'm obviously in the don't-go camp, and yes my years growing up with evangelicals may have something to do with it.

[ysette9]

I suppose I’m talking merely from the perspective of the OP’s mental health putting up with the experience.

[Frankies Girl]

I would kindly and plainly tell my parent that I loved them so very much, but this facility is a terrible thing and setting one foot in there would be asking for you to compromise your own principles. Or just keep saying "Oh mom, I'm so sorry, but I just can't do that. I would love to arrange a lovely outing/picnic/potluck/whatever sounds nice in MONTH tho so our whole family can get together!"

Just because she's old or has a bucket list doesn't mean you have to do anything that you find reprehensible. I would not compromise on this one. Just lovingly but firmly keep saying "I'm so sorry mom, but that's a firm 'no' on this from me." and offer an alternative that does not include religion.

Or you could just joke it away every single time:

"Oh my, mom, so you want the place to burst into flames? Because you know that's what will happen if I set one heathen foot in their door, right?"

"I couldn't bear the trauma of having the roof cave in and the mass of angels dropping from the heavens if I entered the doorway. Better be safe and just have me avoid the place completely."

[Metalcat]

This 100% depends on how much making her happy means to you.

Besides, you can always go from an anthropological perspective. The same way that I follow news sources that I find repugnant, because I want to understand them and see what the other side sees when we look at the same things.

The only way that museum has the power to upset you is if you allow it to. Approach it with a dispassionate scientific mind of observing and it won't be so distressing.

Or, decide that making her happy isn't important enough to you and don't go. I say no to my mom all the time.

[Frankies Girl]

This 100% depends on how much making her happy means to you.

Besides, you can always go from an anthropological perspective. The same way that I follow news sources that I find repugnant, because I want to understand them and see what the other side sees when we look at the same things.

The only way that museum has the power to upset you is if you allow it to. Approach it with a dispassionate scientific mind of observing and it won't be so distressing.

Or, decide that making her happy isn't important enough to you and don't go. I say no to my mom all the time.

It costs a minimum of $35 per adult admission, and up to $100 for the fancy stuff. And if it's a group of 4+ then they're paying gobs of money to support this dumpster fire cult setup. Attending church is free (usually) but this is a for profit enterprise that is mining faith to make a buck. The OP should not go just to not give them a single penny (or allow her family to put in $ to buy her a ticket).

[Metalcat]

This 100% depends on how much making her happy means to you.

Besides, you can always go from an anthropological perspective. The same way that I follow news sources that I find repugnant, because I want to understand them and see what the other side sees when we look at the same things.

The only way that museum has the power to upset you is if you allow it to. Approach it with a dispassionate scientific mind of observing and it won't be so distressing.

Or, decide that making her happy isn't important enough to you and don't go. I say no to my mom all the time.

It costs a minimum of $35 per adult admission, and up to $100 for the fancy stuff. And if it's a group of 4+ then they're paying gobs of money to support this dumpster fire cult setup. Attending church is free (usually) but this is a for profit enterprise that is mining faith to make a buck. The OP should not go just to not give them a single penny (or allow her family to put in $ to buy her a ticket).

Nope.

It still comes down to how important making mom happy is.
If making mom happy isn't as important as not giving money to reprehensible organizations, then that's fine.

However, if mom's happiness is worth it, then there are productive ways to cope.

It's not for me to determine the magnitude of OP's values with respect to their desire to please their mom. That's entirely personal.

[Frankies Girl]

This 100% depends on how much making her happy means to you.

Besides, you can always go from an anthropological perspective. The same way that I follow news sources that I find repugnant, because I want to understand them and see what the other side sees when we look at the same things.

The only way that museum has the power to upset you is if you allow it to. Approach it with a dispassionate scientific mind of observing and it won't be so distressing.

Or, decide that making her happy isn't important enough to you and don't go. I say no to my mom all the time.

It costs a minimum of $35 per adult admission, and up to $100 for the fancy stuff. And if it's a group of 4+ then they're paying gobs of money to support this dumpster fire cult setup. Attending church is free (usually) but this is a for profit enterprise that is mining faith to make a buck. The OP should not go just to not give them a single penny (or allow her family to put in $ to buy her a ticket).

Nope.

It still comes down to how important making mom happy is.
If making mom happy isn't as important as not giving money to reprehensible organizations, then that's fine.

However, if mom's happiness is worth it, then there are productive ways to cope.

It's not for me to determine the magnitude of OP's values with respect to their desire to please their mom. That's entirely personal.

I get that.

I just wanted to make it clear that this "museum" is not free and it does sell lots of add ons and the OP would need to weigh the costs (both actual $ going to support something they do not, and emotional) to going/not going.

[sherr]

My mom, who is turning 80 in a few months, and is in declining health, has expressed strong interest in visiting the Creation Museum / Noah's Ark tourist site in Kentucky - as a family.

However, these thoughts and feelings are undiscussable. Mom prays for me every day to recover my faith and she has told me she can't handle hearing me talk about my lack of faith thereof.

They figure Mom rarely asks for anything, this is a bucket list item for her, and it will mean a lot to her for us all to go together. 

I would like to also point out that the reason that it's sooo important that they all do this together is almost certainly because the mom is trying to manipulate Freedom into believing again and she thinks that once she sees "all the evidence" that it'll change her mind. Now admittedly I don't have a great relationship with my mom for largely the same reasons, so you might not want to take advice from me. However if you do ask me then that doesn't sound like a mother who's very respectful of her adult children's clearly expressed wishes, and who doesn't deserve much respect in return.

[TrudgingAlong]

My mom, who is turning 80 in a few months, and is in declining health, has expressed strong interest in visiting the Creation Museum / Noah's Ark tourist site in Kentucky - as a family.

However, these thoughts and feelings are undiscussable. Mom prays for me every day to recover my faith and she has told me she can't handle hearing me talk about my lack of faith thereof.

They figure Mom rarely asks for anything, this is a bucket list item for her, and it will mean a lot to her for us all to go together. 

This was also the point I wanted to make. Having a similar situation in my own family, any move we make that can possibly be perceived as “returning to the fold” opens up a new round of pressure. If this tends to be your family, I’d respectfully decline and wish her well on the trip. It’s going to be a better experience for her, too, if the only people who go are the ones who will enjoy it with her. You are not in any way required to be a martyr for her because she’s old.

I would like to also point out that the reason that it's sooo important that they all do this together is almost certainly because the mom is trying to manipulate Freedom into believing again and she thinks that once she sees "all the evidence" that it'll change her mind. Now admittedly I don't have a great relationship with my mom for largely the same reasons, so you might not want to take advice from me. However if you do ask me then that doesn't sound like a mother who's very respectful of her adult children's clearly expressed wishes, and who doesn't deserve much respect in return.

[js82]

How will you feel about this episode after she's gone? Will you regret having gone, or not having gone?

Good question. I think the latter, which is why I think I will probably go... though I dread it.

I think you just answered the question for yourself.  Make the choice which will leave you happier/more at peace in the long run.  You're better equipped to answer that question than any of us.

If I were personally in this situation I'd stand my ground - but that's largely the product of witnessing the psychological damage done to someone I once loved by a manipulative parent who didn't respect boundaries.  But I am not you, my values are not yours, and I don't know enough about your mother to fully understand her motivations.  The only advice I can give you is, whatever decision you make, don't just choose based on the couple hours you'll spend in the museum - make the decision that will give you the most peace of mind in the weeks, months, and years afterwards - whatever that choice may be.

[OzzieandHarriet]

This might amuse you at least:

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2007/07/03/the-special-times-at-the-creation-museum/

The video is gone (it was hysterical IIRC), but you get the idea.

[avrex]

Jurassic Lark

[six-car-habit]

 I wouldn't go just to make your mom happy. you are already putting up with the Fox diatribes.

However if it were me and i did go - I'd be asking the 'Guest speaker" provocative questions, such as ; Why did god put gay peple on earth - unless he specifically wanted them there. Why does my cat seem to dream. Why were solomon and david allowed hundreds of concubines, many of whom we would consider underaged. How did noah fit hundreds [ ?] of thousands of species on the boat. Why does god allow the massacre of innocents , etc.

 What if it were a restaurant that had given you food poisoning in the past + failed their recent health inspection - would you go + Pay, all smiles and appetite ?  -  or bring a bag lunch along for free [ and offend the chef and relatives ] , -  or suggest another venue and pay [ and get enjoyabe / agreeable food and service ] .....?

[PMG]

Been there, as I was starting to find my way out of my own fundamentalist cult upbringing.

1. Should be called the flood museum, not creation museum. Their entire argument is built around proof there was a flood.

But that’s just an aside.

I understand the stress and grief thinking of this trip is causing. I understand that weight that settles on your shoulders and forces the breath out of your chest.

Can you let them plan the trip, make sure they have numerous days and stops and then announce, that you won’t be joining until the day after the museum. No excuses. You just aren’t available. There are lovely things in Kentucky.

I sometimes have to work with myself so that my bitterness and hurt doesn’t cause more hurt for my mom.  I do point out misogynistic and racist bits to the religious stories and events she tells me about, but I try not to dismantle everything. Her belief system is what helps her deal with a world she is terrified of. “It sounds like you really enjoyed that.” Or “that event was really meaningful to you.”  I guess I’m looking for ways to support her without agreeing and without getting myself in the middle.

So there, all I’ve done is process my own trauma on your post, but I get what your dealing with and I am all for you finding a way out of going.

[Monocle Money Mouth]

I would take a hard pass on that invitation. She's being manipulative even if she doesn't think she is. It sounds like she already knows you have abandoned religion and this is just a weak attempt to try to bring you back. If you go, you'll just be boiling over with rage on the inside and give your mom some false sense of hope you've seen the light.

I also agree with passing so you aren't funding that organizations goals. You indirectly fund a bunch of stuff you probably find abhorrent just by buying the everyday items you need. There is no reason to directly fund stuff you hate based on a guilt trip from mom.

[KBecks]

A ticket to this place is like $50 and it will not succeed or fail on one person's admission and food costs. 

Whether or not you go on your trip, the focus is on the relationship with your mom and what you think is the best way for both of you to have a good relationship and good memories / sense of peace.

[Kris]

A ticket to this place is like $50 and it will not succeed or fail on one person's admission and food costs. 

Whether or not you go on your trip, the focus is on the relationship with your mom and what you think is the best way for both of you to have a good relationship and good memories / sense of peace.

Would you pay $50 for entry into an abortion clinic and museum?

[Roadrunner53]

For goodness sake, the woman is 80 years old and in bad health and has a desire to go to a place that interests her. Do you think maybe she had to attend things she didn't like when raising her children? Like school plays, parades, sports events, band recitals, kiddy movies at the theaters. I am sure she attended a lot of stuff that she would have rather never gone to but did.

I do understand your loathing of going to a thing you have no interest in and hate. This is what I would suggest. Make it a family trip. Be upfront with your mother that you have no interest in going to the Creation Museum and that you will take them there and drop them off while you do other things that interest you. You can say that later on you will all meet up and talk about your experiences. Here is a list of things to do nearby: https://www.tripadvisor.com/AttractionsNear-g39743-d619562-Creation_Museum-Petersburg_Kentucky.html

That way you can all go together but do separate things that interest all of you. Make sure you get everything your parents need like rental wheelchairs if needed, upgrade the tickets to whatever is the best for them. Make it so they have the time of their lives. Have them call you during the day to see how they are doing. Make dinner reservations. Yes, and listen to what they have to say about their wonderful day that makes you puke. Don't roll your eyes or be judgmental. It is all about making your mom and dad happy, not you. Sorry, but they sacrificed a lot for you and giving back should give you some joy. Seeing the happiness on their faces should make it worth while to you.

Then, find something to do together with them on another day. Maybe they need a day of rest in between events. The most important thing is to spend time with them. Enjoy your time with them because there will be a time down the road they won't be around.

By the way, I wouldn't want to go to that place either but I would suck it up to make my mother happy. However, my mom passed in 2013 so I no longer have the opportunity to do anything with her.

[skp]

There has to be someplace somewhere that EVERYONE would like to go.  Yes, you could just suck it up, but why? 

[bacchi]

There has to be someplace somewhere that EVERYONE would like to go.  Yes, you could just suck it up, but why?

Derby City Distillery in Louisville. Then Freedom2016 can get secularly hammered after the flaming mess that's the Creation Museum.

[Wrenchturner]

Jurassic Lark

L'ark Jurassic, en francais.

[DadJokes]

There has to be someplace somewhere that EVERYONE would like to go.  Yes, you could just suck it up, but why?

Derby City Distillery in Louisville. Then Freedom2016 can get secularly hammered after the flaming mess that's the Creation Museum.

Or before

[jrhampt]

My sympathies.  I also grew up in a fundamentalist environment and went to many of those places with my parents when I was growing up.  They’ve been to the place you’re talking about too, I believe.  I’m not sure what I would do in this situation, but I’d probably propose some alternatives and see if any of them stick.  I’d make it clear that you love her and want to spend time with her, regardless.

[RetiredAt63]

There has to be someplace somewhere that EVERYONE would like to go.  Yes, you could just suck it up, but why?

Derby City Distillery in Louisville. Then Freedom2016 can get secularly hammered after the flaming mess that's the Creation Museum.

Or before

Before and after sounds good.

[Poundwise]

If your mom's in poor health, the trip will be exhausting for her. You'll need a plan B that is closer to home as well.  Perhaps you and your parents could intersect in terms of finding a charity event that is church run nearer to home?  Historically, evangelicals have been active in outreach to the poor, immigrants, and refugees, and this is something that both you and your parents may be able to support together.

[Financial.Velociraptor]

Dad went to that a few years ago.  Says one the dinosaurs in the exhibit is ... wearing a saddle.  The place might be worth it for some good laughs.

[avrex]

Jurassic Lark

L'ark Jurassic, en francais.

Perfect!

[RetiredAt63]

Dad went to that a few years ago.  Says one the dinosaurs in the exhibit is ... wearing a saddle.  The place might be worth it for some good laughs.

Someone watched too many Flintstones cartoons as a kid.