Author Topic: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.  (Read 11175 times)

galliver

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #100 on: October 27, 2017, 06:24:21 PM »
Not exactly a mis-conception but rather a lack of conception that came up with a friend today.

We need to conserve Helium because it's a legitimately limited and also important resource (unless we eventually learn to harvest it from space, I guess, then go to town! But that probably won't happen in our lifetimes.) https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/mar/18/helium-party-balloons-squandered

nnls

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #101 on: October 28, 2017, 12:11:20 AM »
"I Will Always Love You" is about breaking up. Do not have it as the first dance at your wedding.

I went to a wedding where they had "Better Man' by Pearl Jam, they are both massive Pearl Jam fans though, so I assume they just loved the song and didnt really think about the words

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pearljam/betterman.html

Laura33

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #102 on: October 28, 2017, 07:21:03 AM »
"I Will Always Love You" is about breaking up. Do not have it as the first dance at your wedding.

I went to a wedding where they had "Better Man' by Pearl Jam, they are both massive Pearl Jam fans though, so I assume they just loved the song and didnt really think about the words

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pearljam/betterman.html

My cousin's first dance was to "The Thrill Is Gone."

Then again, we played "Kiss That Frog" (though not as first dance), so maybe I shouldn't talk -- it was ironically meant, but how were guests to know?
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

shelivesthedream

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #103 on: October 28, 2017, 07:35:40 AM »
"I Will Always Love You" is about breaking up. Do not have it as the first dance at your wedding.

I went to a wedding where they had "Better Man' by Pearl Jam, they are both massive Pearl Jam fans though, so I assume they just loved the song and didnt really think about the words

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pearljam/betterman.html

My cousin's first dance was to "The Thrill Is Gone."

Then again, we played "Kiss That Frog" (though not as first dance), so maybe I shouldn't talk -- it was ironically meant, but how were guests to know?

...because anyone at your wedding ought to know you well enough to know your sense of humour?

OneStep

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #104 on: October 28, 2017, 10:10:10 AM »

2. "I'll Be Watching You" by The Police is about stalking, not love. Stop playing it as a love song, because that's hella creepy.

When people question me on this I like to show them this version. Changing it to a minor key helps bring out the creepiness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I9ckO5YgCE&index=5&list=PLuAErDbw1QnriDhxwZGOw67LcQ9VvWa1p

Laura33

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #105 on: October 28, 2017, 04:41:38 PM »
"I Will Always Love You" is about breaking up. Do not have it as the first dance at your wedding.

I went to a wedding where they had "Better Man' by Pearl Jam, they are both massive Pearl Jam fans though, so I assume they just loved the song and didnt really think about the words

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pearljam/betterman.html

My cousin's first dance was to "The Thrill Is Gone."

Then again, we played "Kiss That Frog" (though not as first dance), so maybe I shouldn't talk -- it was ironically meant, but how were guests to know?

...because anyone at your wedding ought to know you well enough to know your sense of humour?

Well, yes -- and certainly any guests who would be posting on boards like this.  :-). Fair point.
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GuitarStv

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #106 on: October 30, 2017, 08:39:30 AM »
Not exactly a mis-conception but rather a lack of conception that came up with a friend today.

We need to conserve Helium because it's a legitimately limited and also important resource (unless we eventually learn to harvest it from space, I guess, then go to town! But that probably won't happen in our lifetimes.) https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/mar/18/helium-party-balloons-squandered


OK, so I read this post and wanted to learn more.  I typed "are we running out of heliumn" into Google (Google understands my typos, don't worry) and the first two articles that appeared are both from Forbes:

Why We Are Running Out of Helium And What We Can Do About It

We're Really Not About To Run Out Of Helium--No, Please, Stop It, We're Not

:S

galliver

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #107 on: October 30, 2017, 11:59:01 AM »
Not exactly a mis-conception but rather a lack of conception that came up with a friend today.

We need to conserve Helium because it's a legitimately limited and also important resource (unless we eventually learn to harvest it from space, I guess, then go to town! But that probably won't happen in our lifetimes.) https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/mar/18/helium-party-balloons-squandered


OK, so I read this post and wanted to learn more.  I typed "are we running out of heliumn" into Google (Google understands my typos, don't worry) and the first two articles that appeared are both from Forbes:

Why We Are Running Out of Helium And What We Can Do About It

We're Really Not About To Run Out Of Helium--No, Please, Stop It, We're Not

:S

I read that second one and wasn't very convinced. He spends the first half talking about mineral reserves (which he wrote a book about! and feels the need to mention this multiple times!) and I can see to some degree the concept of how-much-proven-access-to-[material]-do-we-have is relevant to helium as well as other materials that I would actually describe as "minerals". However, unlike helium, minerals don't tend to fly up and escape the atmosphere once we use them (unless we put them in spacecraft, which thus far are quite minimal relative to earthbound uses). The second half of his argument is that "well, actually, the Earth is generating more helium through radioactive decay!" which is quite meaningless without some idea of rates and timescales. Generation of 1/year of something we use 100/year of is pretty insignificant when you're looking at running out of it. He doesn't really address the feasibility of harnessing and speeding up the nuclear process to generate helium intentionally should we run low; my intuition tells me this would be at least prohibitively expensive. So, his argument throws up some red flags for me like someone's trying to cherry pick information in a field tangentially related to theirs in order to make a point that is somehow lucrative...or if I give him a bit more benefit of the doubt, the argument is a "Why should I save money when I can always get a job and earn more?" type.

Tangentially relevant:

shelivesthedream

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #108 on: October 30, 2017, 03:25:32 PM »
Tangentially relevant:


This is my favourite cartoon ever and I link to it regularly. Nice to see another enthusiast!

Primm

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #109 on: November 01, 2017, 02:45:34 AM »
"I Will Always Love You" is about breaking up. Do not have it as the first dance at your wedding.

I went to a wedding where they had "Better Man' by Pearl Jam, they are both massive Pearl Jam fans though, so I assume they just loved the song and didnt really think about the words

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pearljam/betterman.html

My cousin's first dance was to "The Thrill Is Gone."

Then again, we played "Kiss That Frog" (though not as first dance), so maybe I shouldn't talk -- it was ironically meant, but how were guests to know?

...because anyone at your wedding ought to know you well enough to know your sense of humour?

Our wedding song was (It's) The End Of The World (As We Know It) by REM.

The thing that annoys me every year is people talking about cold weather making them sick. NO. Viruses make you sick, they tend to spread quicker and more easily in winter because everyone is huddled together inside.

I get this even from fellow health professionals. Drives me nuts.

Laura33

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #110 on: November 01, 2017, 06:37:37 AM »
"I Will Always Love You" is about breaking up. Do not have it as the first dance at your wedding.

I went to a wedding where they had "Better Man' by Pearl Jam, they are both massive Pearl Jam fans though, so I assume they just loved the song and didnt really think about the words

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pearljam/betterman.html

My cousin's first dance was to "The Thrill Is Gone."

Then again, we played "Kiss That Frog" (though not as first dance), so maybe I shouldn't talk -- it was ironically meant, but how were guests to know?

...because anyone at your wedding ought to know you well enough to know your sense of humour?

Our wedding song was (It's) The End Of The World (As We Know It) by REM.

That was the song we played as we left our reception!
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Dabnasty

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #111 on: November 01, 2017, 07:21:22 AM »
The thing that annoys me every year is people talking about cold weather making them sick. NO. Viruses make you sick, they tend to spread quicker and more easily in winter because everyone is huddled together inside.

I get this even from fellow health professionals. Drives me nuts.
This one is actually more complicated than I once realized. While of course the temperature alone isn't responsible for creating sickness there are several factors which increase sickness in cold weather.

1) like you said, people are inside more and there is more contact.
2) cold exposure can weaken you immune system and make you temporarily more susceptible to viruses.
3) colder temperatures can make the outer shell of some viruses more resilient which in turn makes them harder for our immune system to kill.     https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080330203401.htm

On a similar note thinking that antibiotics will cure a sinus/bronchial infection is a misconception that concerns me. It's annoying when people say it but I've even corrected people and they just gave me a kind of "uh-huh" and I'm pretty sure they didn't believe me (And I don't think my delivery was pretentious if that's what you're thinking :). Not to mention doctors continue to prescribe them in many cases probably knowing that it will serve as nothing more than a placebo that damages your gut flora.

I wish it was socially acceptable to hand someone an article or meta analysis when they make an incorrect statement just like we do on forums.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #112 on: November 01, 2017, 07:22:43 AM »
I think they'll eventually learn about the limits of anti-biotics when resistant infections start flaring up and killing thousands of people.

Kris

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #113 on: November 01, 2017, 07:41:56 AM »
I think they'll eventually learn about the limits of anti-biotics when resistant infections start flaring up and killing thousands of people.

Yeah. Just like how people will eventually learn about the importance of not creating an environment that pollinators can't live in when colony collapse kills off our food supply. Sigh. Makes me glad I'm getting older. I'm hoping not to be around anymore when this stuff starts happening.
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ketchup

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #114 on: November 01, 2017, 07:49:06 AM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.

GuitarStv

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #115 on: November 01, 2017, 08:06:52 AM »
"I Will Always Love You" is about breaking up. Do not have it as the first dance at your wedding.

I went to a wedding where they had "Better Man' by Pearl Jam, they are both massive Pearl Jam fans though, so I assume they just loved the song and didnt really think about the words

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pearljam/betterman.html

My cousin's first dance was to "The Thrill Is Gone."

Then again, we played "Kiss That Frog" (though not as first dance), so maybe I shouldn't talk -- it was ironically meant, but how were guests to know?

...because anyone at your wedding ought to know you well enough to know your sense of humour?

Our wedding song was (It's) The End Of The World (As We Know It) by REM.

The thing that annoys me every year is people talking about cold weather making them sick. NO. Viruses make you sick, they tend to spread quicker and more easily in winter because everyone is huddled together inside.

I get this even from fellow health professionals. Drives me nuts.

My understanding was that it's kinda true that being cold doesn't make you sick.  If you walk around for a without a shirt on at below freezing temperatures you're not going to get sick for example.  However, most colds are infections of the throat and sinuses.  If you exercise hard in very cold weather, you will be breathing cold air heavily.  This lowers the temperature of the lining of your throat and nasal passages.  Lowering the temperature in these areas reduces the immune response (and therefore increases susceptibility) to bacteria and viruses (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/scientists-finally-prove-cold-weather-makes-sick/).

TLDR - Being cold isn't going to make you have a cold, but lowered temperatures in the nose and throat can increase susceptibility to bacteria/viruses.

iowajes

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #116 on: November 01, 2017, 08:23:24 AM »
Adding to the bad wedding song list:  "You were always on my mind" by Willie Nelson.

My cousins used this as their first dance. I immediately looked at my husband and asked if they had ever listened to it.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #117 on: November 01, 2017, 08:44:09 AM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.
A. Is it plugged in?
B. At both ends?

ketchup

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #118 on: November 01, 2017, 10:09:13 AM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.
A. Is it plugged in?
B. At both ends?
I thought it was wireless?

ixtap

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #119 on: November 01, 2017, 10:47:32 AM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.

Alright, but when I call and describe the problem and the steps I have taken, don't start over again at step 1. As a matter of fact, I wish there was a secondary level of support you got access to just by mentioning that you already turned it off and back on, checked all the connections, and went through the troubleshooting checklist available online.

ketchup

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #120 on: November 01, 2017, 10:50:15 AM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.

Alright, but when I call and describe the problem and the steps I have taken, don't start over again at step 1. As a matter of fact, I wish there was a secondary level of support you got access to just by mentioning that you already turned it off and back on, checked all the connections, and went through the troubleshooting checklist available online.
I work for a company of about 40.  I figure out pretty quickly who actually does what you describe, and who asks if the network is slow today because their mouse is broken.  At least half the job is reading people and social engineering.

Travis

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #121 on: November 01, 2017, 12:04:34 PM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.

Alright, but when I call and describe the problem and the steps I have taken, don't start over again at step 1. As a matter of fact, I wish there was a secondary level of support you got access to just by mentioning that you already turned it off and back on, checked all the connections, and went through the troubleshooting checklist available online.
I work for a company of about 40.  I figure out pretty quickly who actually does what you describe, and who asks if the network is slow today because their mouse is broken.  At least half the job is reading people and social engineering.

As an IT guy myself, I want a customer service number where I can just skip to "It's definitely broken and I just need an RMA."
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Travis

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #122 on: November 01, 2017, 12:12:07 PM »
Misconception: "All these IT rules are bullshit and stifle my productivity and make no sense."

Reality: We have expensive monitoring and security systems on our network and restrict users from doing certain things because enough people have proven themselves to be unreliable network users who will cause us all great harm to satisfy their own convenience.  I cannot and will not sacrifice the entire network's integrity because you're lazy or think your rank means the same rules don't apply to you. Ever see a strange rule or law somewhere and think "they could only have made that rule because someone managed to screw up in that fashion?"  Guess where our network restrictions and regulations stem from.
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Uturn

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #123 on: November 01, 2017, 12:30:35 PM »
I don't mind when non-IT people report the network is down, or even "the Internet" is down. But when a ticket gets to me via another IT person and they still say the Internet is down, drives me nuts!  If the Internet was down, I doubt that I am the one who is going to fix it. 

Also, don't call your network guy and ask if the network is running fine today.  The network is a transportation system.  It has the equivalent of freeways, side streets, and residential roads.  If there is problems on the freeway portion and your network guy is calmly at his desk, it might be time to find his replacement.  Otherwise, tell him what part of the network you are on and what part you are trying to get to.
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ketchup

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #124 on: November 01, 2017, 01:24:32 PM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.

Alright, but when I call and describe the problem and the steps I have taken, don't start over again at step 1. As a matter of fact, I wish there was a secondary level of support you got access to just by mentioning that you already turned it off and back on, checked all the connections, and went through the troubleshooting checklist available online.
I work for a company of about 40.  I figure out pretty quickly who actually does what you describe, and who asks if the network is slow today because their mouse is broken.  At least half the job is reading people and social engineering.

As an IT guy myself, I want a customer service number where I can just skip to "It's definitely broken and I just need an RMA."
I've found Dell is the best big vendor in that regard.  They trust that I know when it's busted, even if it doesn't fit into their script. ("No, I can't run the hard drive scan test you want me to, because the computer doesn't boot because the hard drive is borked.")

Misconception: "All these IT rules are bullshit and stifle my productivity and make no sense."

Reality: We have expensive monitoring and security systems on our network and restrict users from doing certain things because enough people have proven themselves to be unreliable network users who will cause us all great harm to satisfy their own convenience.  I cannot and will not sacrifice the entire network's integrity because you're lazy or think your rank means the same rules don't apply to you. Ever see a strange rule or law somewhere and think "they could only have made that rule because someone managed to screw up in that fashion?"  Guess where our network restrictions and regulations stem from.
+1!  I'm in an FDA regulated environment and there are certain things that we just can't let our users do because it opens an insane rabbit hole of potential non-compliance.  Sure, it'd be "easier" or "more convenient", but no, we just can't.  We've spent months programming systems that end up making shit harder for users to do, because that's how we have to do it if we don't want to get shut down.  You're welcome.

Also, don't call your network guy and ask if the network is running fine today.  The network is a transportation system.  It has the equivalent of freeways, side streets, and residential roads.  If there is problems on the freeway portion and your network guy is calmly at his desk, it might be time to find his replacement.  Otherwise, tell him what part of the network you are on and what part you are trying to get to.
This too! 

"Is the server being slow today?" drives me crazy.  "We have several servers, what's acting up?"  "Everything!"  -_-

Oh, you mean Lotus Notes won't load, sure I can fix that, and no, it's not the server's fault.  (Yes, we use Notes...)

Travis

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #125 on: November 01, 2017, 02:24:53 PM »
I don't mind when non-IT people report the network is down, or even "the Internet" is down. But when a ticket gets to me via another IT person and they still say the Internet is down, drives me nuts!  If the Internet was down, I doubt that I am the one who is going to fix it. 

Also, don't call your network guy and ask if the network is running fine today.  The network is a transportation system.  It has the equivalent of freeways, side streets, and residential roads.  If there is problems on the freeway portion and your network guy is calmly at his desk, it might be time to find his replacement.  Otherwise, tell him what part of the network you are on and what part you are trying to get to.

User: The internet is down!
Me: You're calling me on a VoIP.
User: So?
Me: Voice over INTERNET...So you want to tell me what specifically isn't working for you?
Half the time it's either Outlook (with "the internet" working just fine) or a single web-based application that we don't control.

The worst has to be when the person I'm talking to should know better.

Me (over a cell phone): Our local servers overheated and the whole campus is down.
The team that runs the whole network in N.C.: call me on the VoIP and send me an email about it.
Me: ...
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galliver

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #126 on: November 02, 2017, 02:46:31 PM »
On a similar note thinking that antibiotics will cure a sinus/bronchial infection is a misconception that concerns me. It's annoying when people say it but I've even corrected people and they just gave me a kind of "uh-huh" and I'm pretty sure they didn't believe me (And I don't think my delivery was pretentious if that's what you're thinking :). Not to mention doctors continue to prescribe them in many cases probably knowing that it will serve as nothing more than a placebo that damages your gut flora.

That can't be a complete misconception...you *can* get a bacterial infection of the sinuses and bronchi...it's usually suspected if cold-like symptoms don't improve after 10-14 days (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/06/19/peds.2013-1071). If what you're trying to say is that those infections can be viral rather than bacterial, that's probably true. But I've never had a doctor offer to test which one it was so I'm guessing the cost of testing vs risk of treating is still a good tradeoff. Kind of like there isn't a good way to test whether conjunctivitis (pinkeye) is bacterial quickly, and the bacterial kind can make you blind, so they give you antibiotic eyedrops to be on the safe side.

And if you're talking about people who demand antibiotics from a doctor after having a cold for 3 days, then we're on the same page, that's stupid. When I need a placebo I take some Emergen-C ;) (I'm a big believer in the power of the placebo effect...but I'm not eager to use antibiotics for it; I'd rather those continued to work on actual bacterial infections.)

I think they'll eventually learn about the limits of anti-biotics when resistant infections start flaring up and killing thousands of people.

I tried to find a source about this but had trouble, maybe someone can help confirm or deny: I was under the impression that antibiotic use in hospitals (related to surgery, etc) and in farming (including totally  non-bacterial reasons like making livestock grow faster) contributed much, much more to the development of antibiotic resistance than people taking these drugs at home for illnesses.

GuitarStv

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #127 on: November 02, 2017, 02:53:58 PM »
On a similar note thinking that antibiotics will cure a sinus/bronchial infection is a misconception that concerns me. It's annoying when people say it but I've even corrected people and they just gave me a kind of "uh-huh" and I'm pretty sure they didn't believe me (And I don't think my delivery was pretentious if that's what you're thinking :). Not to mention doctors continue to prescribe them in many cases probably knowing that it will serve as nothing more than a placebo that damages your gut flora.

That can't be a complete misconception...you *can* get a bacterial infection of the sinuses and bronchi...it's usually suspected if cold-like symptoms don't improve after 10-14 days (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/06/19/peds.2013-1071). If what you're trying to say is that those infections can be viral rather than bacterial, that's probably true. But I've never had a doctor offer to test which one it was so I'm guessing the cost of testing vs risk of treating is still a good tradeoff. Kind of like there isn't a good way to test whether conjunctivitis (pinkeye) is bacterial quickly, and the bacterial kind can make you blind, so they give you antibiotic eyedrops to be on the safe side.

And if you're talking about people who demand antibiotics from a doctor after having a cold for 3 days, then we're on the same page, that's stupid. When I need a placebo I take some Emergen-C ;) (I'm a big believer in the power of the placebo effect...but I'm not eager to use antibiotics for it; I'd rather those continued to work on actual bacterial infections.)

I think they'll eventually learn about the limits of anti-biotics when resistant infections start flaring up and killing thousands of people.

I tried to find a source about this but had trouble, maybe someone can help confirm or deny: I was under the impression that antibiotic use in hospitals (related to surgery, etc) and in farming (including totally  non-bacterial reasons like making livestock grow faster) contributed much, much more to the development of antibiotic resistance than people taking these drugs at home for illnesses.

I had a very serious sinus infection this year . . . it went on for about two months and subsided after a course of antibiotics.  After a day or two on the antibiotics, the thick green crap that I was coughing up constantly went away and then I was feeling better about four days after that.  Could have been coincidence, but my money's on the antibiotics.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #128 on: November 02, 2017, 03:13:32 PM »
I dunno about the major contributors to drug resistance. Not even sure how it would be measured. I guess by volume of usage you'd expect hospitals and feedlots to be the biggest contributors, but I'm not sure that's the right metric.

I'm not sure things like drug-resistant gonorrhea or TB can be traced back to feed-lots at all.


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If you've got it for 2 months, probably isn't viral, heh. I have recurring infections and mine last 2 weeks at the absolute most.

RidetheRain

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #129 on: November 02, 2017, 03:21:12 PM »
On a similar note thinking that antibiotics will cure a sinus/bronchial infection is a misconception that concerns me. It's annoying when people say it but I've even corrected people and they just gave me a kind of "uh-huh" and I'm pretty sure they didn't believe me (And I don't think my delivery was pretentious if that's what you're thinking :). Not to mention doctors continue to prescribe them in many cases probably knowing that it will serve as nothing more than a placebo that damages your gut flora.

That can't be a complete misconception...you *can* get a bacterial infection of the sinuses and bronchi...it's usually suspected if cold-like symptoms don't improve after 10-14 days (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/06/19/peds.2013-1071). If what you're trying to say is that those infections can be viral rather than bacterial, that's probably true. But I've never had a doctor offer to test which one it was so I'm guessing the cost of testing vs risk of treating is still a good tradeoff. Kind of like there isn't a good way to test whether conjunctivitis (pinkeye) is bacterial quickly, and the bacterial kind can make you blind, so they give you antibiotic eyedrops to be on the safe side.

And if you're talking about people who demand antibiotics from a doctor after having a cold for 3 days, then we're on the same page, that's stupid. When I need a placebo I take some Emergen-C ;) (I'm a big believer in the power of the placebo effect...but I'm not eager to use antibiotics for it; I'd rather those continued to work on actual bacterial infections.)

I think they'll eventually learn about the limits of anti-biotics when resistant infections start flaring up and killing thousands of people.

I tried to find a source about this but had trouble, maybe someone can help confirm or deny: I was under the impression that antibiotic use in hospitals (related to surgery, etc) and in farming (including totally  non-bacterial reasons like making livestock grow faster) contributed much, much more to the development of antibiotic resistance than people taking these drugs at home for illnesses.

For the second point, the farming is definitely the biggest contributor to the problem. My parents owned a dairy and that's a really irritating part of the business. But, if you don't have good healthy livestock then your business can go up in flames very quickly. Food is cheap and margins are thin. It's a hard choice - raise prices? That would make people buy a different brand or - if everyone did it - make it harder for the poor to purchase good food. Or treat the animals with unnecessary medications? Bad for the long-term health of the people. My parents were always on the brink of bankruptcy which is fairly common for farms.

On the other hand, my SIL (a pharmacist) claims that doctors prescribe antibiotics unnecessarily all the time which is the cause of resistant outbreaks in hospitals. So pick your poison. I'm guessing both are bad for different reasons and we are courting disaster from all sides.
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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #130 on: November 02, 2017, 03:24:13 PM »
People failing to take their antibiotics properly at home is also an issue. They start feeling better and don't finish out the course (especially since antibiotics can make your bathroom breaks unpleasant), except - oops - they hadn't fully fought off the infection yet, and when it comes back they've selected for resistance to their drug, so even taking their remaining pills isn't as effective.

Take your antibiotics as directed.

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #131 on: November 02, 2017, 03:27:41 PM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.
A. Is it plugged in?
B. At both ends?

Were you at my house?

I legitimately did this. I spent the weekend without internet, and when I finally caved and rang support they asked me to unplug the cable. I got under my desk and ... it already was.

I didn't tell him, waited until he gave me the rest of the instructions and pulled the "hey, look at that, it works now!" line.

So embarrassed. I must have kicked it out with my foot.

Primm

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #132 on: November 02, 2017, 03:32:09 PM »
I dunno about the major contributors to drug resistance. Not even sure how it would be measured. I guess by volume of usage you'd expect hospitals and feedlots to be the biggest contributors, but I'm not sure that's the right metric.

I'm not sure things like drug-resistant gonorrhea or TB can be traced back to feed-lots at all.


I think historically this may have been the case, but if you saw the truckload of hoops we have to jump through these days to prescribe any antibiotics in hospital, you'd have to think we're not the problem any more.

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #133 on: November 02, 2017, 03:46:54 PM »
I dunno about the major contributors to drug resistance. Not even sure how it would be measured. I guess by volume of usage you'd expect hospitals and feedlots to be the biggest contributors, but I'm not sure that's the right metric.

I'm not sure things like drug-resistant gonorrhea or TB can be traced back to feed-lots at all.


I think historically this may have been the case, but if you saw the truckload of hoops we have to jump through these days to prescribe any antibiotics in hospital, you'd have to think we're not the problem any more.

It'd depend on the hospital system, I'd imagine. Mrs. ADBG (or I guess Dr. ADBG in this case) was responsible for implementing anti-biotic control regimens that were incentivized post-ACA, and a lot of the hospitals were just BADDDDDDDDDD. Compliance with the new SOPs is a big problem.

She went to hospitals in a lot of under-privileged areas, so places like WV and MS. I imagine, say, the Kaiser health system isn't over-prescribing as many drugs.

But the bigger issue might be hospitals in third world nations? Like, if India is misprescribing drugs, that's a LOT of anti-biotic resistance potential.

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #134 on: November 02, 2017, 03:49:22 PM »
I dunno about the major contributors to drug resistance. Not even sure how it would be measured. I guess by volume of usage you'd expect hospitals and feedlots to be the biggest contributors, but I'm not sure that's the right metric.

I'm not sure things like drug-resistant gonorrhea or TB can be traced back to feed-lots at all.


I think historically this may have been the case, but if you saw the truckload of hoops we have to jump through these days to prescribe any antibiotics in hospital, you'd have to think we're not the problem any more.

It'd depend on the hospital system, I'd imagine. Mrs. ADBG (or I guess Dr. ADBG in this case) was responsible for implementing anti-biotic control regimens that were incentivized post-ACA, and a lot of the hospitals were just BADDDDDDDDDD. Compliance with the new SOPs is a big problem.

She went to hospitals in a lot of under-privileged areas, so places like WV and MS. I imagine, say, the Kaiser health system isn't over-prescribing as many drugs.

But the bigger issue might be hospitals in third world nations? Like, if India is misprescribing drugs, that's a LOT of anti-biotic resistance potential.
You can also buy antibiotic creams and the like at Walgreens in the US with no oversight or limit.  It took me until last year to notice that.  I was pretty floored, but that sort of thing can't do "too much" damage when misused, right?

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #135 on: November 02, 2017, 03:50:51 PM »
I dunno about the major contributors to drug resistance. Not even sure how it would be measured. I guess by volume of usage you'd expect hospitals and feedlots to be the biggest contributors, but I'm not sure that's the right metric.

I'm not sure things like drug-resistant gonorrhea or TB can be traced back to feed-lots at all.


I think historically this may have been the case, but if you saw the truckload of hoops we have to jump through these days to prescribe any antibiotics in hospital, you'd have to think we're not the problem any more.

It'd depend on the hospital system, I'd imagine. Mrs. ADBG (or I guess Dr. ADBG in this case) was responsible for implementing anti-biotic control regimens that were incentivized post-ACA, and a lot of the hospitals were just BADDDDDDDDDD. Compliance with the new SOPs is a big problem.

She went to hospitals in a lot of under-privileged areas, so places like WV and MS. I imagine, say, the Kaiser health system isn't over-prescribing as many drugs.

But the bigger issue might be hospitals in third world nations? Like, if India is misprescribing drugs, that's a LOT of anti-biotic resistance potential.

Hmm, true. I'm speaking from a PWW perspective (privileged white westerner) and not really thinking outside my own space, so you may be right.

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #136 on: November 02, 2017, 04:44:30 PM »
I think they'll eventually learn about the limits of anti-biotics when resistant infections start flaring up and killing thousands of people.

Okay everyone, listen up and take notice.  I've been arguing with my BIL for years about this. The latest time was a few months ago after he and my sister both got traveler's diarrhea in India, took Cipro for 2 days each, then quit when they felt better.  I argued, and he stopped me dead in my tracks when he told me that's what the doctor ordered him to do.  So I went online to Dr. Google and guess what? 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/26/rule-patients-must-finish-antibiotics-course-wrong-study-says

"Far from being irresponsible, shortening the duration of a course of antibiotics might make antibiotic resistance less likely.

Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #137 on: November 02, 2017, 04:48:20 PM »
I dunno about the major contributors to drug resistance. Not even sure how it would be measured. I guess by volume of usage you'd expect hospitals and feedlots to be the biggest contributors, but I'm not sure that's the right metric.

I'm not sure things like drug-resistant gonorrhea or TB can be traced back to feed-lots at all.


I think historically this may have been the case, but if you saw the truckload of hoops we have to jump through these days to prescribe any antibiotics in hospital, you'd have to think we're not the problem any more.

It'd depend on the hospital system, I'd imagine. Mrs. ADBG (or I guess Dr. ADBG in this case) was responsible for implementing anti-biotic control regimens that were incentivized post-ACA, and a lot of the hospitals were just BADDDDDDDDDD. Compliance with the new SOPs is a big problem.

She went to hospitals in a lot of under-privileged areas, so places like WV and MS. I imagine, say, the Kaiser health system isn't over-prescribing as many drugs.

But the bigger issue might be hospitals in third world nations? Like, if India is misprescribing drugs, that's a LOT of anti-biotic resistance potential.

Hmm, true. I'm speaking from a PWW perspective (privileged white westerner) and not really thinking outside my own space, so you may be right.

Friends of mine have been travelling to Vanuatu every school holidays to help train teachers there.

On their first visit they learned that Panadol is so expensive that locals buy them by the single tablet, rather than the box, so they took an extra suitcase of OTC medication to donate the school clinic.

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #138 on: November 02, 2017, 05:46:25 PM »
I think they'll eventually learn about the limits of anti-biotics when resistant infections start flaring up and killing thousands of people.

Okay everyone, listen up and take notice.  I've been arguing with my BIL for years about this. The latest time was a few months ago after he and my sister both got traveler's diarrhea in India, took Cipro for 2 days each, then quit when they felt better.  I argued, and he stopped me dead in my tracks when he told me that's what the doctor ordered him to do.  So I went online to Dr. Google and guess what? 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/26/rule-patients-must-finish-antibiotics-course-wrong-study-says

"Far from being irresponsible, shortening the duration of a course of antibiotics might make antibiotic resistance less likely.


I mean, you'll notice that what I advised was to take your antibiotics as directed. If your doctor tells you to quit when you feel better then you should do so!

"Taking antibiotics for longer than necessary increases the risk of resistance, yes - the issue I'm describing is who gets to decide what's "longer than necessary." I've had friends biased against pharma grudgingly take their pills until they felt marginally better, quit them because they thought tea and honey could finish the job, and had their strep throat come raring back.* (And, uh, strep throat can become scarlet fever and kill you.)

The article's point about how it depends what bug you're fighting was interesting. But toward the end it also digs into the reasons that changing the recommendation might not be a good idea. There is definitely merit to shortening the course of antibiotics that are prescribed, and like it says there are studies into what the right lengths of courses should be, it's just the trouble of getting the balance right. And then making sure people listen when you tell them where the balance point is.

*Acknowledgement that this evidence is anecdotal, haha.

galliver

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #139 on: November 02, 2017, 07:21:38 PM »
I think they'll eventually learn about the limits of anti-biotics when resistant infections start flaring up and killing thousands of people.

Okay everyone, listen up and take notice.  I've been arguing with my BIL for years about this. The latest time was a few months ago after he and my sister both got traveler's diarrhea in India, took Cipro for 2 days each, then quit when they felt better.  I argued, and he stopped me dead in my tracks when he told me that's what the doctor ordered him to do.  So I went online to Dr. Google and guess what? 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/26/rule-patients-must-finish-antibiotics-course-wrong-study-says

"Far from being irresponsible, shortening the duration of a course of antibiotics might make antibiotic resistance less likely.


I mean, you'll notice that what I advised was to take your antibiotics as directed. If your doctor tells you to quit when you feel better then you should do so!

"Taking antibiotics for longer than necessary increases the risk of resistance, yes - the issue I'm describing is who gets to decide what's "longer than necessary." I've had friends biased against pharma grudgingly take their pills until they felt marginally better, quit them because they thought tea and honey could finish the job, and had their strep throat come raring back.* (And, uh, strep throat can become scarlet fever and kill you.)

The article's point about how it depends what bug you're fighting was interesting. But toward the end it also digs into the reasons that changing the recommendation might not be a good idea. There is definitely merit to shortening the course of antibiotics that are prescribed, and like it says there are studies into what the right lengths of courses should be, it's just the trouble of getting the balance right. And then making sure people listen when you tell them where the balance point is.

*Acknowledgement that this evidence is anecdotal, haha.

I've read about that study, too, and found it interesting. However, I think the important takeaway from it is for more study to be done on the best way to determine optimal treatment lengths, so that doctors can prescribe them more minimally, but still effectively. I don't think it's a call for the general public to stop taking their drugs as recommended by professionals...

Personally, I was most interested to find out that the mechanism they suspected produced more drug-resistant bacteria wasn't actually the natural selection of the infectious bacteria (as often explained) but the harmless or beneficial bacteria (which weren't being targeted and may be less susceptible to the drug to begin with) developing resistance and eventually passing those genes to the infectious bacteria. I like understanding the underlying processes of things... (or logic, etc)

Dabnasty

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #140 on: November 03, 2017, 06:33:51 AM »
I didn't word my original post very well but I'm glad it sparked some interesting foam.

I was referring to people who are aware they have a virus but don't understand that antibiotics won't help. A coworker once told me I better see a Dr when I was sick. I said it's just a cold. She said well they can give you some antibiotics. I said it's probably viral. She said well it will help a little.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #141 on: November 03, 2017, 07:12:21 AM »
I think they'll eventually learn about the limits of anti-biotics when resistant infections start flaring up and killing thousands of people.

Okay everyone, listen up and take notice.  I've been arguing with my BIL for years about this. The latest time was a few months ago after he and my sister both got traveler's diarrhea in India, took Cipro for 2 days each, then quit when they felt better.  I argued, and he stopped me dead in my tracks when he told me that's what the doctor ordered him to do.  So I went online to Dr. Google and guess what? 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/26/rule-patients-must-finish-antibiotics-course-wrong-study-says

"Far from being irresponsible, shortening the duration of a course of antibiotics might make antibiotic resistance less likely.

No major disagreement. The recommended durations of treatments are too long in some cases.

Like the other poster said, though, take them as directed. Because you probably don't know better than the doctor! A good counter-example to this is probably drug-resistant TB. It takes MONTHS of treatment for the TB to be eradicated fully, but you still might feel better before that. Interruptions in treatment (because a lot of people taking this TB were third worlders that could not afford or did not want to take the drugs) probably led to the drug-resistant TB, and is why it's a pandemic again.

So, take as directed! Trust the system!

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #142 on: November 03, 2017, 07:20:13 AM »
Not exactly a mis-conception but rather a lack of conception that came up with a friend today.

We need to conserve Helium because it's a legitimately limited and also important resource (unless we eventually learn to harvest it from space, I guess, then go to town! But that probably won't happen in our lifetimes.) https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/mar/18/helium-party-balloons-squandered

Right now the US has a huge stockpile of it and sells it super cheap, so capturing it is very low priority for most places. Many natural gas wells contain helium, but right now it's not even worth them capturing/isolating it, so they don't. The same goes for capturing it after use. Some labs do re-capture it, but right now it's not really worth doing for the most part.

The reality is, we're wasting so much of it because it is so cheap and available. Some estimates put world reserves at over 100 years, so I'm not too worried about it. There are machines out there that do need helium, but whether it costs them $2 or $20 to fill it up probably isn't a huge deal, as they are usually pretty high end machines doing expensive things.

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #143 on: November 03, 2017, 09:20:34 AM »
I can't believe I did not put this on my initial post.

D-Day was not the turning point of World War 2. Please stop teaching that in Schools.

RidetheRain

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #144 on: November 03, 2017, 09:38:35 AM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.
A. Is it plugged in?
B. At both ends?

Were you at my house?

I legitimately did this. I spent the weekend without internet, and when I finally caved and rang support they asked me to unplug the cable. I got under my desk and ... it already was.

I didn't tell him, waited until he gave me the rest of the instructions and pulled the "hey, look at that, it works now!" line.

So embarrassed. I must have kicked it out with my foot.

I'm going to come down on the other side of this one. I'm also in IT (tier 3 tech support and everything). If I tell you I turned off the machine and waited and turned it back on again. BELIEVE ME. Sweet Jesus, why would I lie about that? Most of the time when I break down and call support the first thing they ask is if I turned it off and on - I say yes - and then proceed to ask me to do it again.

Side note for other people: Don't lie, I guess? It's kind of a weird thing to decide to lie about, yeah? It really is the solution to most of the problems you are going to encounter.
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Kris

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #145 on: November 03, 2017, 09:52:15 AM »
I work in IT.  When I ask if you've tried turning it off and on again, that's a real question.  Please give a real answer.
A. Is it plugged in?
B. At both ends?

Were you at my house?

I legitimately did this. I spent the weekend without internet, and when I finally caved and rang support they asked me to unplug the cable. I got under my desk and ... it already was.

I didn't tell him, waited until he gave me the rest of the instructions and pulled the "hey, look at that, it works now!" line.

So embarrassed. I must have kicked it out with my foot.

I'm going to come down on the other side of this one. I'm also in IT (tier 3 tech support and everything). If I tell you I turned off the machine and waited and turned it back on again. BELIEVE ME. Sweet Jesus, why would I lie about that? Most of the time when I break down and call support the first thing they ask is if I turned it off and on - I say yes - and then proceed to ask me to do it again.

Side note for other people: Don't lie, I guess? It's kind of a weird thing to decide to lie about, yeah? It really is the solution to most of the problems you are going to encounter.

I think people lie because they're embarrassed. For the non-tech-savvy, there's a certain amount of anxiety that goes into these events. When something doesn't work, and you don't have a clue why and are afraid of potential consequences, you freak out and maybe aren't thinking the most clearly. Then you have to face talking to an IT person and you are already feeling a little defensive about looking like an idiot. (I'm not entirely tech-non-savvy, but I definitely see this effect on people, as well as on myself, occasionally.) And then of course, when they ask you the "did you turn it off and then back on again" question, and you realize how dumb that sounds -- especially if you DIDN'T -- some people cringe with embarrassment and lie reflexively.

God, this reminds me of one of the worst cases of computer-induced anxiety dumbness I've witnessed.

Back in the day (and by "in the day", I mean the mid-1990s), I was in grad school. In our department, there was a room with four computers where people could go and write their masters theses and dissertations without having to deal with an undergrad computer lab. One of the people in my program was a woman who was probably ten years older than I was, and not from the US. She clearly was not from a culture that was very used to computers, and she had very little idea how they worked and a lot of anxiety around them. She was writing her dissertation around the time I was writing my master's thesis.

This woman somehow decided that I was the person who knew all about computers, so she'd come to me with any problems she had. Well, a lot of the time, she'd have done something kind of boneheaded, like hit "cut" instead of "copy" and then freak out when an entire paragraph or page would "disappear." Unfortunately, when anything like that would occur, she would immediately determine that the computer had "a virus" and shut it off. And then come find me.

I cannot tell you how many times I told her not to do that. I couldn't possibly tell you how many times she lost paragraphs, pages, or probably entire chapters because this was before computers kind of automatically saved everything for you. And all because of her anxiety.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 10:10:00 AM by Kris »
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BDWW

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #146 on: November 03, 2017, 10:15:10 AM »
I can't believe I did not put this on my initial post.

D-Day was not the turning point of World War 2. Please stop teaching that in Schools.

Hah, The first time I got suspended from school was related to WWII history. Our teacher insisted that it started in 1941, and I insisted (politely at first, then not so politely - I was a teenager after all) that she was wrong.

Oh and I think people are reading too much into wedding songs songs at weddings. As the night was getting on, we (wife and I) talked the DJ into playing "Greenskeepers - Lotion"... what does that say about our marriage?

Travis

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #147 on: November 03, 2017, 10:54:05 AM »
I can't believe I did not put this on my initial post.

D-Day was not the turning point of World War 2. Please stop teaching that in Schools.

Hah, The first time I got suspended from school was related to WWII history. Our teacher insisted that it started in 1941, and I insisted (politely at first, then not so politely - I was a teenager after all) that she was wrong.

Oh and I think people are reading too much into wedding songs songs at weddings. As the night was getting on, we (wife and I) talked the DJ into playing "Greenskeepers - Lotion"... what does that say about our marriage?

By that point the formalities are long over, half the guests are sauced, and everyone just wants to have a good time.  The very first wedding dance with all eyes on them which is typically a mushy love song that the couple spent time picking because it meant something on the other hand...
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madgeylou

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #148 on: November 03, 2017, 11:00:23 AM »
"I Will Always Love You" is about breaking up. Do not have it as the first dance at your wedding.

hahahaha YES! One of my friends had Al Green's "Let's Stay Together" as their first song and I felt similarly. I mean, great song, but it's not exactly the beginning of our lives together message, is it?

Kris

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Re: Misconceptions people have that you'd like to correct.
« Reply #149 on: November 03, 2017, 11:08:47 AM »
"I Will Always Love You" is about breaking up. Do not have it as the first dance at your wedding.

hahahaha YES! One of my friends had Al Green's "Let's Stay Together" as their first song and I felt similarly. I mean, great song, but it's not exactly the beginning of our lives together message, is it?

Ha -- that was our first song, too. But I thought it made perfect sense. (We are/were older and on our second marriage, also...)
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.