Author Topic: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate  (Read 738695 times)

Jack

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #650 on: February 25, 2016, 04:15:58 PM »
superdelegates are a big deal, I don't understand how you can ignore their existence all together,

Show me where I ignored them. I dare you. I disregarded them, which is different.

The truth that you refuse to acknowledge is that if Sanders won the popular vote all the superdelegates would flip to support him. The only real function they serve is in the pre-Super Tuesday campaigning environment, where their existence serves as establishment propaganda to dissuade anti-establishment voters. They use their own existence to push the message that Sanders "can't win" in hopes it would become a self-fulfilling prophesy, but all it is is propaganda -- and it's not working.

zoltani

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #651 on: February 25, 2016, 04:18:25 PM »
I can play this game too:

Political Science Professor: Odds Of President Trump Range BETWEEN 97% AND 99%

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/24/political-science-professor-odds-of-president-trump-range-between-97-and-99/

PERCENTAGES! Statistic are never wrong or bent to someone's opinion!


zoltani

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #652 on: February 25, 2016, 04:25:49 PM »

I choose who to vote for based on the following
how will this candidate handle the military
what type of supreme court justices/other judges will this candidate nominate to the senate/appoint, and what big issues do I think these judges have to decide on
what type of executive orders will this candidate produce
what bills will this candidate veto, is he more compromising or will he create gridlock
what type of budget would he submit/approve/veto
can he get along with other leaders of other countries and negotiate well

Also, I don't think Cruz will be republican nomination, if he does idk if i'll vote for him, I know I said any other republican, but I'm assuming that's Rubio or Kasich.
But after guessing on what the candidates would do on the things I stated above, I would prefer Rubio or Kasich over Clinton or Sanders
Ok - so you mentioned that you don't like the current deficit of the status quo which you expect Hillary to keep, and I brought up Rubio's budget but for some reason that doesn't seem to be an issue for you (or at least you said you wouldn't vote for a candidate based on that).
So - let's stick to Rubio since that seems to be the only republican candidate that you'll vote for who has a 30% chance of winning (your estimation).

What about about Rubio do you prefer about:
Military
Supreme Court
Executive orders
Compromise/avoid gridlock

(the above is based on the items you've said you are using to evaluate candiates, minus the budget which you've already said doesn't matter to you)
whoa guy, you were talking about tax plans not budgets, you do know those aren't the same thing right?

first off, he aint' your guy.......buddy


Now, pal, are taxes and budgets interrelated somehow? I just don't know?

Malaysia41

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #653 on: February 25, 2016, 04:38:18 PM »

whoa guy, you were talking about tax plans not budgets, you do know those aren't the same thing right?

first off, he aint' your guy.......buddy


Now, pal, are taxes and budgets interrelated somehow? I just don't know?

Now there, toots, enough with the pet name-calling.  ... or carry on. I just wanted to call you toots.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 04:40:28 PM by Malaysia41 »

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #654 on: February 25, 2016, 04:45:12 PM »

I choose who to vote for based on the following
how will this candidate handle the military
what type of supreme court justices/other judges will this candidate nominate to the senate/appoint, and what big issues do I think these judges have to decide on
what type of executive orders will this candidate produce
what bills will this candidate veto, is he more compromising or will he create gridlock
what type of budget would he submit/approve/veto
can he get along with other leaders of other countries and negotiate well

Also, I don't think Cruz will be republican nomination, if he does idk if i'll vote for him, I know I said any other republican, but I'm assuming that's Rubio or Kasich.
But after guessing on what the candidates would do on the things I stated above, I would prefer Rubio or Kasich over Clinton or Sanders
Ok - so you mentioned that you don't like the current deficit of the status quo which you expect Hillary to keep, and I brought up Rubio's budget but for some reason that doesn't seem to be an issue for you (or at least you said you wouldn't vote for a candidate based on that).
So - let's stick to Rubio since that seems to be the only republican candidate that you'll vote for who has a 30% chance of winning (your estimation).

What about about Rubio do you prefer about:
Military
Supreme Court
Executive orders
Compromise/avoid gridlock

(the above is based on the items you've said you are using to evaluate candiates, minus the budget which you've already said doesn't matter to you)
I'll tell you what I prefer about Rubio over Clinton anyways,
In terms of military I think it's a wash, I don't like either of their foreign policies. Rubio seems to have slightly better ideas when it comes to foreign policy and he seems to be more knowledgable on the subject, but Hillary has a lot more experience (although it includes some negatives). Hillary would maybe spend slightly less, so maybe a very slight edge to Hillary on this subject.
In terms of Supreme court justices/judges, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, I think because Roe vs Wade  and Obergefell v. Hodges already dealt with the main social issues I wanted to get dealt with, I'd prefer Rubio nominating the next few supreme court justices/appoint the next judges(after Obamas term of course, I think him and the senate should do their jobs and start the process to replace Scalia.
I don't know a lot about executive orders, I liked most of Obamas executive orders so I'll give a slight edge to Hillary here, but I don't really know what type of executive orders Rubio would do.
I think Rubio would veto some bills that would increase spending, I think he would be somewhat compromising and be able to pass some moderate legislation as well. I think Clinton would pass more legislation that increases spending, and be equally compromising.
I think Rubio would focus more on reducing spending when it comes to budgets, the only negative would be that he probably would increase the military budget slightly more than Clinton.
I think Rubio would be slightly stricter than Hillary when dealing with foreign policy, which I think is a good thing.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #655 on: February 25, 2016, 04:49:14 PM »
superdelegates are a big deal, I don't understand how you can ignore their existence all together,

Show me where I ignored them. I dare you. I disregarded them, which is different.

The truth that you refuse to acknowledge is that if Sanders won the popular vote all the superdelegates would flip to support him. The only real function they serve is in the pre-Super Tuesday campaigning environment, where their existence serves as establishment propaganda to dissuade anti-establishment voters. They use their own existence to push the message that Sanders "can't win" in hopes it would become a self-fulfilling prophesy, but all it is is propaganda -- and it's not working.
I disagree that the superdelegates would flip to support him.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #656 on: February 25, 2016, 04:51:25 PM »
I can play this game too:

Political Science Professor: Odds Of President Trump Range BETWEEN 97% AND 99%

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/24/political-science-professor-odds-of-president-trump-range-between-97-and-99/

PERCENTAGES! Statistic are never wrong or bent to someone's opinion!
that is not a statistic

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #657 on: February 25, 2016, 04:52:53 PM »

I choose who to vote for based on the following
how will this candidate handle the military
what type of supreme court justices/other judges will this candidate nominate to the senate/appoint, and what big issues do I think these judges have to decide on
what type of executive orders will this candidate produce
what bills will this candidate veto, is he more compromising or will he create gridlock
what type of budget would he submit/approve/veto
can he get along with other leaders of other countries and negotiate well

Also, I don't think Cruz will be republican nomination, if he does idk if i'll vote for him, I know I said any other republican, but I'm assuming that's Rubio or Kasich.
But after guessing on what the candidates would do on the things I stated above, I would prefer Rubio or Kasich over Clinton or Sanders
Ok - so you mentioned that you don't like the current deficit of the status quo which you expect Hillary to keep, and I brought up Rubio's budget but for some reason that doesn't seem to be an issue for you (or at least you said you wouldn't vote for a candidate based on that).
So - let's stick to Rubio since that seems to be the only republican candidate that you'll vote for who has a 30% chance of winning (your estimation).

What about about Rubio do you prefer about:
Military
Supreme Court
Executive orders
Compromise/avoid gridlock

(the above is based on the items you've said you are using to evaluate candiates, minus the budget which you've already said doesn't matter to you)
whoa guy, you were talking about tax plans not budgets, you do know those aren't the same thing right?

first off, he aint' your guy.......buddy


Now, pal, are taxes and budgets interrelated somehow? I just don't know?
yes taxes and budgets are interrelated, however he said he brought up Rubios budget, which he never did.

Gin1984

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #658 on: February 25, 2016, 04:59:13 PM »

I choose who to vote for based on the following
how will this candidate handle the military
what type of supreme court justices/other judges will this candidate nominate to the senate/appoint, and what big issues do I think these judges have to decide on
what type of executive orders will this candidate produce
what bills will this candidate veto, is he more compromising or will he create gridlock
what type of budget would he submit/approve/veto
can he get along with other leaders of other countries and negotiate well

Also, I don't think Cruz will be republican nomination, if he does idk if i'll vote for him, I know I said any other republican, but I'm assuming that's Rubio or Kasich.
But after guessing on what the candidates would do on the things I stated above, I would prefer Rubio or Kasich over Clinton or Sanders
Ok - so you mentioned that you don't like the current deficit of the status quo which you expect Hillary to keep, and I brought up Rubio's budget but for some reason that doesn't seem to be an issue for you (or at least you said you wouldn't vote for a candidate based on that).
So - let's stick to Rubio since that seems to be the only republican candidate that you'll vote for who has a 30% chance of winning (your estimation).

What about about Rubio do you prefer about:
Military
Supreme Court
Executive orders
Compromise/avoid gridlock

(the above is based on the items you've said you are using to evaluate candiates, minus the budget which you've already said doesn't matter to you)
I'll tell you what I prefer about Rubio over Clinton anyways,
In terms of military I think it's a wash, I don't like either of their foreign policies. Rubio seems to have slightly better ideas when it comes to foreign policy and he seems to be more knowledgable on the subject, but Hillary has a lot more experience (although it includes some negatives). Hillary would maybe spend slightly less, so maybe a very slight edge to Hillary on this subject.
In terms of Supreme court justices/judges, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, I think because Roe vs Wade  and Obergefell v. Hodges already dealt with the main social issues I wanted to get dealt with, I'd prefer Rubio nominating the next few supreme court justices/appoint the next judges(after Obamas term of course, I think him and the senate should do their jobs and start the process to replace Scalia.
I don't know a lot about executive orders, I liked most of Obamas executive orders so I'll give a slight edge to Hillary here, but I don't really know what type of executive orders Rubio would do.
I think Rubio would veto some bills that would increase spending, I think he would be somewhat compromising and be able to pass some moderate legislation as well. I think Clinton would pass more legislation that increases spending, and be equally compromising.
I think Rubio would focus more on reducing spending when it comes to budgets, the only negative would be that he probably would increase the military budget slightly more than Clinton.
I think Rubio would be slightly stricter than Hillary when dealing with foreign policy, which I think is a good thing.
I love that you think someone with less experience (or let's be honest none) has more knowledge than someone who has worked on the international field as both First Lady and Secretary of State.  That is just so out of the realm of reality it is funny.  The only reason to think this is bias.  And then for Roe v Wade, you may want to learn about Casey vs PP and Rubio's appointments would reverse Roe v Wade, based on GOP behavior in multiple states. 

Jack

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #659 on: February 25, 2016, 05:02:44 PM »
The truth that you refuse to acknowledge is that if Sanders won the popular vote all the superdelegates would flip to support him.
I disagree that the superdelegates would flip to support him.

Really? You think the Democrats would prefer to alienate an entire generation of voters, destroying the party and guaranteeing a Republican win, instead? Where are your "statistics" for that extraordinary opinion?

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #660 on: February 25, 2016, 05:10:11 PM »
The truth that you refuse to acknowledge is that if Sanders won the popular vote all the superdelegates would flip to support him.
I disagree that the superdelegates would flip to support him.

Really? You think the Democrats would prefer to alienate an entire generation of voters, destroying the party and guaranteeing a Republican win, instead? Where are your "statistics" for that extraordinary opinion?
Firstly I think Sanders will drop out well before it gets to this point, but if it came down to it I think they would vote Hillary, a few people would get mad but I in no way think that it would alienate an entire generation of voters, or destroy the party, or guarantee a republican win. I think if Hillary is against Trump in that situation she still wins.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #661 on: February 25, 2016, 05:15:58 PM »

I choose who to vote for based on the following
how will this candidate handle the military
what type of supreme court justices/other judges will this candidate nominate to the senate/appoint, and what big issues do I think these judges have to decide on
what type of executive orders will this candidate produce
what bills will this candidate veto, is he more compromising or will he create gridlock
what type of budget would he submit/approve/veto
can he get along with other leaders of other countries and negotiate well

Also, I don't think Cruz will be republican nomination, if he does idk if i'll vote for him, I know I said any other republican, but I'm assuming that's Rubio or Kasich.
But after guessing on what the candidates would do on the things I stated above, I would prefer Rubio or Kasich over Clinton or Sanders
Ok - so you mentioned that you don't like the current deficit of the status quo which you expect Hillary to keep, and I brought up Rubio's budget but for some reason that doesn't seem to be an issue for you (or at least you said you wouldn't vote for a candidate based on that).
So - let's stick to Rubio since that seems to be the only republican candidate that you'll vote for who has a 30% chance of winning (your estimation).

What about about Rubio do you prefer about:
Military
Supreme Court
Executive orders
Compromise/avoid gridlock

(the above is based on the items you've said you are using to evaluate candiates, minus the budget which you've already said doesn't matter to you)
I'll tell you what I prefer about Rubio over Clinton anyways,
In terms of military I think it's a wash, I don't like either of their foreign policies. Rubio seems to have slightly better ideas when it comes to foreign policy and he seems to be more knowledgable on the subject, but Hillary has a lot more experience (although it includes some negatives). Hillary would maybe spend slightly less, so maybe a very slight edge to Hillary on this subject.
In terms of Supreme court justices/judges, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, I think because Roe vs Wade  and Obergefell v. Hodges already dealt with the main social issues I wanted to get dealt with, I'd prefer Rubio nominating the next few supreme court justices/appoint the next judges(after Obamas term of course, I think him and the senate should do their jobs and start the process to replace Scalia.
I don't know a lot about executive orders, I liked most of Obamas executive orders so I'll give a slight edge to Hillary here, but I don't really know what type of executive orders Rubio would do.
I think Rubio would veto some bills that would increase spending, I think he would be somewhat compromising and be able to pass some moderate legislation as well. I think Clinton would pass more legislation that increases spending, and be equally compromising.
I think Rubio would focus more on reducing spending when it comes to budgets, the only negative would be that he probably would increase the military budget slightly more than Clinton.
I think Rubio would be slightly stricter than Hillary when dealing with foreign policy, which I think is a good thing.
I love that you think someone with less experience (or let's be honest none) has more knowledge than someone who has worked on the international field as both First Lady and Secretary of State.  That is just so out of the realm of reality it is funny.  The only reason to think this is bias.  And then for Roe v Wade, you may want to learn about Casey vs PP and Rubio's appointments would reverse Roe v Wade, based on GOP behavior in multiple states.
I should say seems more knowledgeable on what is currently happening in the middle east, not more knowledgeable in foreign policy in general. How would his appointments reverse Roe v Wade? Not that I don't believe you I'm just curiouis

nereo

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #662 on: February 25, 2016, 05:24:47 PM »

I choose who to vote for based on the following
how will this candidate handle the military
what type of supreme court justices/other judges will this candidate nominate to the senate/appoint, and what big issues do I think these judges have to decide on
what type of executive orders will this candidate produce
what bills will this candidate veto, is he more compromising or will he create gridlock
what type of budget would he submit/approve/veto
can he get along with other leaders of other countries and negotiate well

Also, I don't think Cruz will be republican nomination, if he does idk if i'll vote for him, I know I said any other republican, but I'm assuming that's Rubio or Kasich.
But after guessing on what the candidates would do on the things I stated above, I would prefer Rubio or Kasich over Clinton or Sanders
Ok - so you mentioned that you don't like the current deficit of the status quo which you expect Hillary to keep, and I brought up Rubio's budget but for some reason that doesn't seem to be an issue for you (or at least you said you wouldn't vote for a candidate based on that).
So - let's stick to Rubio since that seems to be the only republican candidate that you'll vote for who has a 30% chance of winning (your estimation).

What about about Rubio do you prefer about:
Military
Supreme Court
Executive orders
Compromise/avoid gridlock

(the above is based on the items you've said you are using to evaluate candiates, minus the budget which you've already said doesn't matter to you)
whoa guy, you were talking about tax plans not budgets, you do know those aren't the same thing right?

first off, he aint' your guy.......buddy


Now, pal, are taxes and budgets interrelated somehow? I just don't know?
yes taxes and budgets are interrelated, however he said he brought up Rubios budget, which he never did.
You are correct that I brought up Rubio's tax plan and not his specific budget (which to my knowledge he has not laid out in detail).  However, it was in response to your concern about the deficit and debt-to-gdp.  You did specifically mention his budget until later.
My point there is simply that both the right-leaning Tax Foundation and the  Tax Policy Center both project that his tax plan would add $6.8T to the national debt over a decade.  Whether his budget would alleviate some or all of this loss in revenue is an open question.  However, his calls to singificantly increase military spending makes me question whether the actual national debt might increase.  You can read about his plans for the military here on his website, but in brief he calls to "restore the $1T in indescriminate military cuts" caused by the sequester, increase the number of troops, immediately increase the number of navy ships, accelerate F-35A procurement and expand our missile defense. 
By some estimates, this will cost an additional $1T over the next decade.


My points here are that Rubio's proposed tax plan and increased defense budget could add $7.8T over ten years, or an average of $780B each year.  I'm not sure how he can shrink the deficit (which he has also promised) with this loss in tax revenue and increase in defense spending. A budget would be helpful here but the 2015 federal budget is $3.8T. 

Gin1984

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #663 on: February 25, 2016, 05:25:22 PM »

I choose who to vote for based on the following
how will this candidate handle the military
what type of supreme court justices/other judges will this candidate nominate to the senate/appoint, and what big issues do I think these judges have to decide on
what type of executive orders will this candidate produce
what bills will this candidate veto, is he more compromising or will he create gridlock
what type of budget would he submit/approve/veto
can he get along with other leaders of other countries and negotiate well

Also, I don't think Cruz will be republican nomination, if he does idk if i'll vote for him, I know I said any other republican, but I'm assuming that's Rubio or Kasich.
But after guessing on what the candidates would do on the things I stated above, I would prefer Rubio or Kasich over Clinton or Sanders
Ok - so you mentioned that you don't like the current deficit of the status quo which you expect Hillary to keep, and I brought up Rubio's budget but for some reason that doesn't seem to be an issue for you (or at least you said you wouldn't vote for a candidate based on that).
So - let's stick to Rubio since that seems to be the only republican candidate that you'll vote for who has a 30% chance of winning (your estimation).

What about about Rubio do you prefer about:
Military
Supreme Court
Executive orders
Compromise/avoid gridlock

(the above is based on the items you've said you are using to evaluate candiates, minus the budget which you've already said doesn't matter to you)
I'll tell you what I prefer about Rubio over Clinton anyways,
In terms of military I think it's a wash, I don't like either of their foreign policies. Rubio seems to have slightly better ideas when it comes to foreign policy and he seems to be more knowledgable on the subject, but Hillary has a lot more experience (although it includes some negatives). Hillary would maybe spend slightly less, so maybe a very slight edge to Hillary on this subject.
In terms of Supreme court justices/judges, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, I think because Roe vs Wade  and Obergefell v. Hodges already dealt with the main social issues I wanted to get dealt with, I'd prefer Rubio nominating the next few supreme court justices/appoint the next judges(after Obamas term of course, I think him and the senate should do their jobs and start the process to replace Scalia.
I don't know a lot about executive orders, I liked most of Obamas executive orders so I'll give a slight edge to Hillary here, but I don't really know what type of executive orders Rubio would do.
I think Rubio would veto some bills that would increase spending, I think he would be somewhat compromising and be able to pass some moderate legislation as well. I think Clinton would pass more legislation that increases spending, and be equally compromising.
I think Rubio would focus more on reducing spending when it comes to budgets, the only negative would be that he probably would increase the military budget slightly more than Clinton.
I think Rubio would be slightly stricter than Hillary when dealing with foreign policy, which I think is a good thing.
I love that you think someone with less experience (or let's be honest none) has more knowledge than someone who has worked on the international field as both First Lady and Secretary of State.  That is just so out of the realm of reality it is funny.  The only reason to think this is bias.  And then for Roe v Wade, you may want to learn about Casey vs PP and Rubio's appointments would reverse Roe v Wade, based on GOP behavior in multiple states.
I should say seems more knowledgeable on what is currently happening in the middle east, not more knowledgeable in foreign policy in general. How would his appointments reverse Roe v Wade? Not that I don't believe you I'm just curiouis
And I would say it is your bias that makes you think that.  There is no way that someone in his position has more knowledge than the former Secretary of State and if you don't think she was dealing with the Middle East during her husband's term I have a bridge to sell you. ;)
Have you looked up Casey vs PP?  Have you seen the amount of clinics that have been targeted by trap laws (designed by GOP leadership)?  There is a concentrated, planned effort to make abortion inaccessible.  Try watching "John Oliver and abortion" just google it and it will answer for you.

dramaman

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #664 on: February 25, 2016, 05:29:00 PM »
In the last forty years Republicans presidents have been less fiscally responsible than their Democratic counterparts because they lower taxes without changing spending. I see no reason why Rubio will be any different.

Sent from my XT1021 using Tapatalk


nereo

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #665 on: February 25, 2016, 05:36:46 PM »

In terms of Supreme court justices/judges, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, I think because Roe vs Wade  and Obergefell v. Hodges already dealt with the main social issues I wanted to get dealt with, I'd prefer Rubio nominating the next few supreme court justices/appoint the next judges(after Obamas term of course, I think him and the senate should do their jobs and start the process to replace Scalia.


I'm just going to comment on this one for now - Rubio is a pro-life candidate.  In the senate he opposed Sotomayor nomination based on her Roe support.  He's also said that there's a consensus that life beings at conception so no abortion, and that we must ban all abortions after 20 weeks (and co-sponsored a bill in 2013 to ban abortions after 20 weeks).
more about his abortion views here.

Regarding Obergefell v. Hodges, here Rubio's recent statements are even more conservative.  He's stated that marriage is between a man and a woman, that "One-man-one-woman marriage existed before our laws", and that he "opposes gay marriage".

I'm not saying that these are bad views to have, merely that they may be in contrast to your 'socially liberal' views and belief that Roe vs Wade is somehow unretractable.
I firmly agree that the Senate should do their jobs and vote on Obama's pending nomination to the supreme court in a timely fashion (which history shows is, on average, within a month or so).
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 05:39:10 PM by nereo »

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #666 on: February 25, 2016, 05:40:01 PM »

I choose who to vote for based on the following
how will this candidate handle the military
what type of supreme court justices/other judges will this candidate nominate to the senate/appoint, and what big issues do I think these judges have to decide on
what type of executive orders will this candidate produce
what bills will this candidate veto, is he more compromising or will he create gridlock
what type of budget would he submit/approve/veto
can he get along with other leaders of other countries and negotiate well

Also, I don't think Cruz will be republican nomination, if he does idk if i'll vote for him, I know I said any other republican, but I'm assuming that's Rubio or Kasich.
But after guessing on what the candidates would do on the things I stated above, I would prefer Rubio or Kasich over Clinton or Sanders
Ok - so you mentioned that you don't like the current deficit of the status quo which you expect Hillary to keep, and I brought up Rubio's budget but for some reason that doesn't seem to be an issue for you (or at least you said you wouldn't vote for a candidate based on that).
So - let's stick to Rubio since that seems to be the only republican candidate that you'll vote for who has a 30% chance of winning (your estimation).

What about about Rubio do you prefer about:
Military
Supreme Court
Executive orders
Compromise/avoid gridlock

(the above is based on the items you've said you are using to evaluate candiates, minus the budget which you've already said doesn't matter to you)
whoa guy, you were talking about tax plans not budgets, you do know those aren't the same thing right?

first off, he aint' your guy.......buddy


Now, pal, are taxes and budgets interrelated somehow? I just don't know?
yes taxes and budgets are interrelated, however he said he brought up Rubios budget, which he never did.
You are correct that I brought up Rubio's tax plan and not his specific budget (which to my knowledge he has not laid out in detail).  However, it was in response to your concern about the deficit and debt-to-gdp.  You did specifically mention his budget until later.
My point there is simply that both the right-leaning Tax Foundation and the  Tax Policy Center both project that his tax plan would add $6.8T to the national debt over a decade.  Whether his budget would alleviate some or all of this loss in revenue is an open question.  However, his calls to singificantly increase military spending makes me question whether the actual national debt might increase.  You can read about his plans for the military here on his website, but in brief he calls to "restore the $1T in indescriminate military cuts" caused by the sequester, increase the number of troops, immediately increase the number of navy ships, accelerate F-35A procurement and expand our missile defense. 
By some estimates, this will cost an additional $1T over the next decade.


My points here are that Rubio's proposed tax plan and increased defense budget could add $7.8T over ten years, or an average of $780B each year.  I'm not sure how he can shrink the deficit (which he has also promised) with this loss in tax revenue and increase in defense spending. A budget would be helpful here but the 2015 federal budget is $3.8T.
My point, which i'll iterate once again, is that congress won't pass his tax plan so there is no point in me thinking about it, and I'll instead think about things the president actually does.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #667 on: February 25, 2016, 05:41:55 PM »

In terms of Supreme court justices/judges, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, I think because Roe vs Wade  and Obergefell v. Hodges already dealt with the main social issues I wanted to get dealt with, I'd prefer Rubio nominating the next few supreme court justices/appoint the next judges(after Obamas term of course, I think him and the senate should do their jobs and start the process to replace Scalia.


I'm just going to comment on this one for now - Rubio is a pro-life candidate.  In the senate he opposed Sotomayor nomination based on her Roe support.  He's also said that there's a consensus that life beings at conception so no abortion, and that we must ban all abortions after 20 weeks (and co-sponsored a bill in 2013 to ban abortions after 20 weeks).
more about his abortion views here.

Regarding Obergefell v. Hodges, here Rubio's recent statements are even more conservative.  He's stated that marriage is between a man and a woman, that "One-man-one-woman marriage existed before our laws", and that he "opposes gay marriage".

I'm not saying that these are bad views to have, merely that they may be in contrast to your 'socially liberal' views and belief that Roe vs Wade is somehow unretractable.
I firmly agree that the Senate should do their jobs and vote on Obama's pending nomination to the supreme court in a timely fashion (which history shows is, on average, within a month or so).
I don't agree with Rubios social views, but I don't think as president he would have the power to reverse Roe v Wade or Obergefell v Hodges. Maybe he could help push a 20 week limit through, but it's doubtful.

nereo

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #668 on: February 25, 2016, 05:47:49 PM »

You are correct that I brought up Rubio's tax plan and not his specific budget (which to my knowledge he has not laid out in detail).  However, it was in response to your concern about the deficit and debt-to-gdp.  You did specifically mention his budget until later.
My point there is simply that both the right-leaning Tax Foundation and the  Tax Policy Center both project that his tax plan would add $6.8T to the national debt over a decade.  Whether his budget would alleviate some or all of this loss in revenue is an open question.  However, his calls to singificantly increase military spending makes me question whether the actual national debt might increase.  You can read about his plans for the military here on his website, but in brief he calls to "restore the $1T in indescriminate military cuts" caused by the sequester, increase the number of troops, immediately increase the number of navy ships, accelerate F-35A procurement and expand our missile defense. 
By some estimates, this will cost an additional $1T over the next decade.


My points here are that Rubio's proposed tax plan and increased defense budget could add $7.8T over ten years, or an average of $780B each year.  I'm not sure how he can shrink the deficit (which he has also promised) with this loss in tax revenue and increase in defense spending. A budget would be helpful here but the 2015 federal budget is $3.8T.
My point, which i'll iterate once again, is that congress won't pass his tax plan so there is no point in me thinking about it, and I'll instead think about things the president actually does.

Here i'm scratching my head again.  You don't think that congress will pass his tax plan so it should be a moot point, but you somehow think that he'll pass his budget (that only Congress has the power to draft)?  I don't follow the logic.

Even if this is true, the only solid thing we seem to know about his budget is that he wants $1T in extra military spending.

Quote
I don't agree with Rubios social views, but I don't think as president he would have the power to reverse Roe v Wade or Obergefell v Hodges. Maybe he could help push a 20 week limit through, but it's doubtful.

Only the Supreme Court could reverse Roe v. Wade (short of a constitutional amendment).  However, you were the one that brought up nominations of Supreme Court justices.  I'm just pointing out that he's opposed judges because he viewed them to by "pro-choice" (Sotomayor) and he seems very firm in his beliefs that gay marriage is wrong.  ARe you not afraid that he would try to select judges who would share these views?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 05:55:02 PM by nereo »

Gin1984

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #669 on: February 25, 2016, 05:53:04 PM »

In terms of Supreme court justices/judges, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal, I think because Roe vs Wade  and Obergefell v. Hodges already dealt with the main social issues I wanted to get dealt with, I'd prefer Rubio nominating the next few supreme court justices/appoint the next judges(after Obamas term of course, I think him and the senate should do their jobs and start the process to replace Scalia.


I'm just going to comment on this one for now - Rubio is a pro-life candidate.  In the senate he opposed Sotomayor nomination based on her Roe support.  He's also said that there's a consensus that life beings at conception so no abortion, and that we must ban all abortions after 20 weeks (and co-sponsored a bill in 2013 to ban abortions after 20 weeks).
more about his abortion views here.

Regarding Obergefell v. Hodges, here Rubio's recent statements are even more conservative.  He's stated that marriage is between a man and a woman, that "One-man-one-woman marriage existed before our laws", and that he "opposes gay marriage".

I'm not saying that these are bad views to have, merely that they may be in contrast to your 'socially liberal' views and belief that Roe vs Wade is somehow unretractable.
I firmly agree that the Senate should do their jobs and vote on Obama's pending nomination to the supreme court in a timely fashion (which history shows is, on average, within a month or so).
I don't agree with Rubios social views, but I don't think as president he would have the power to reverse Roe v Wade or Obergefell v Hodges. Maybe he could help push a 20 week limit through, but it's doubtful.
Did you google what I said?  Because the GOP has effectively done so in multiple states done so for the majority of the citizens.  So yes, you have him nominating anti-choice justices, the GOP pushing the laws at the federal level that they did on the states and poof, Roe v Wade effectively gone.  And a twenty week limit means fetuses with no capacity to life on their own being forced to term because we can't find that out till twenty weeks.  The only reason to make a twenty week ban is to force women, who want a child, to care a fetus which they will be unable to care, will die or will only live on life support.   

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #670 on: February 25, 2016, 06:41:21 PM »
I've been adding up numbers with each primary, and with just the votes he has received, he alone got more than all the democrat votes combined.  Those of you speculating about half this and half that are going to be surprised come election day.

Could you please tell us more specifically who and what you're talking about? I have a feeling it would be interesting. Since Republicans are always a smaller party than Democrats, it would be surprising if that trend is being reversed. There's certainly been a lot of build up around the Republican primary, but I'm doubtful that the same excitement could carry into the primary.

I'm not using speculation, I'm looking at the vote counts so far, for BOTH sides.  There have been more voters, period, for the republicans than for the democrats.  That would show that if the trend continues into the general election, republicans will have more votes than democrats in each state.  No, we don't go by popular votes in the U.S., its an electoral college, but this is looking as though it is going to be the Regan election all over again... a landslide.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #671 on: February 25, 2016, 07:15:29 PM »
I've been adding up numbers with each primary, and with just the votes he has received, he alone got more than all the democrat votes combined.  Those of you speculating about half this and half that are going to be surprised come election day.

Could you please tell us more specifically who and what you're talking about? I have a feeling it would be interesting. Since Republicans are always a smaller party than Democrats, it would be surprising if that trend is being reversed. There's certainly been a lot of build up around the Republican primary, but I'm doubtful that the same excitement could carry into the primary.

I'm not using speculation, I'm looking at the vote counts so far, for BOTH sides.  There have been more voters, period, for the republicans than for the democrats.  That would show that if the trend continues into the general election, republicans will have more votes than democrats in each state.  No, we don't go by popular votes in the U.S., its an electoral college, but this is looking as though it is going to be the Regan election all over again... a landslide.
I'm not very surprised that there have been more republican votes cast thus far, and I wouldn't read too much into those tea-leaves just yet.  The Republican nomination is way more interesting to most people (look at shear # of candidates as one measure), and I get the sensation that a lot of people who are eitehr independent or moderate democrats are choosing to vote in the republican primaries because that outcome appears to have greater consequences (i.e. the difference between Bernie and Hillary is not as great as the differences between Cruz/Rubio/Trump/Bush/Kasich/etc.)

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #672 on: February 25, 2016, 11:44:10 PM »

You are correct that I brought up Rubio's tax plan and not his specific budget (which to my knowledge he has not laid out in detail).  However, it was in response to your concern about the deficit and debt-to-gdp.  You did specifically mention his budget until later.
My point there is simply that both the right-leaning Tax Foundation and the  Tax Policy Center both project that his tax plan would add $6.8T to the national debt over a decade.  Whether his budget would alleviate some or all of this loss in revenue is an open question.  However, his calls to singificantly increase military spending makes me question whether the actual national debt might increase.  You can read about his plans for the military here on his website, but in brief he calls to "restore the $1T in indescriminate military cuts" caused by the sequester, increase the number of troops, immediately increase the number of navy ships, accelerate F-35A procurement and expand our missile defense. 
By some estimates, this will cost an additional $1T over the next decade.


My points here are that Rubio's proposed tax plan and increased defense budget could add $7.8T over ten years, or an average of $780B each year.  I'm not sure how he can shrink the deficit (which he has also promised) with this loss in tax revenue and increase in defense spending. A budget would be helpful here but the 2015 federal budget is $3.8T.
My point, which i'll iterate once again, is that congress won't pass his tax plan so there is no point in me thinking about it, and I'll instead think about things the president actually does.

Here i'm scratching my head again.  You don't think that congress will pass his tax plan so it should be a moot point, but you somehow think that he'll pass his budget (that only Congress has the power to draft)?  I don't follow the logic.

Even if this is true, the only solid thing we seem to know about his budget is that he wants $1T in extra military spending.

Quote
I don't agree with Rubios social views, but I don't think as president he would have the power to reverse Roe v Wade or Obergefell v Hodges. Maybe he could help push a 20 week limit through, but it's doubtful.

Only the Supreme Court could reverse Roe v. Wade (short of a constitutional amendment).  However, you were the one that brought up nominations of Supreme Court justices.  I'm just pointing out that he's opposed judges because he viewed them to by "pro-choice" (Sotomayor) and he seems very firm in his beliefs that gay marriage is wrong.  ARe you not afraid that he would try to select judges who would share these views?
The president submits the budget to congress, who usually changes whatever they want, and they eventually send it back to the president for approval. So I think his tax planning is a moot point since he has no control over it and it won't happen,  but he could reject the budget so it isn't a moot point.

Since abortions and gay marriage already are in place due to supreme Court decisions, I would prefer some Rubio nominated justices over Clinton justices. I think there could be some gun control decisions in the future and I sure do like my guns.

Cressida

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #673 on: February 25, 2016, 11:58:18 PM »
I'll tell you what I prefer about Rubio over Clinton anyways,
In terms of military I think it's a wash, I don't like either of their foreign policies. Rubio seems to have slightly better ideas when it comes to foreign policy and he seems to be more knowledgable on the subject, but Hillary has a lot more experience (although it includes some negatives). Hillary would maybe spend slightly less, so maybe a very slight edge to Hillary on this subject.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I'm sure that will be apparent to everyone when they're debating the topic this fall.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #674 on: February 26, 2016, 04:42:48 AM »

You are correct that I brought up Rubio's tax plan and not his specific budget (which to my knowledge he has not laid out in detail).  However, it was in response to your concern about the deficit and debt-to-gdp.  You did specifically mention his budget until later.
My point there is simply that both the right-leaning Tax Foundation and the  Tax Policy Center both project that his tax plan would add $6.8T to the national debt over a decade.  Whether his budget would alleviate some or all of this loss in revenue is an open question.  However, his calls to singificantly increase military spending makes me question whether the actual national debt might increase.  You can read about his plans for the military here on his website, but in brief he calls to "restore the $1T in indescriminate military cuts" caused by the sequester, increase the number of troops, immediately increase the number of navy ships, accelerate F-35A procurement and expand our missile defense. 
By some estimates, this will cost an additional $1T over the next decade.


My points here are that Rubio's proposed tax plan and increased defense budget could add $7.8T over ten years, or an average of $780B each year.  I'm not sure how he can shrink the deficit (which he has also promised) with this loss in tax revenue and increase in defense spending. A budget would be helpful here but the 2015 federal budget is $3.8T.
My point, which i'll iterate once again, is that congress won't pass his tax plan so there is no point in me thinking about it, and I'll instead think about things the president actually does.

Here i'm scratching my head again.  You don't think that congress will pass his tax plan so it should be a moot point, but you somehow think that he'll pass his budget (that only Congress has the power to draft)?  I don't follow the logic.

Even if this is true, the only solid thing we seem to know about his budget is that he wants $1T in extra military spending.

Quote
I don't agree with Rubios social views, but I don't think as president he would have the power to reverse Roe v Wade or Obergefell v Hodges. Maybe he could help push a 20 week limit through, but it's doubtful.

Only the Supreme Court could reverse Roe v. Wade (short of a constitutional amendment).  However, you were the one that brought up nominations of Supreme Court justices.  I'm just pointing out that he's opposed judges because he viewed them to by "pro-choice" (Sotomayor) and he seems very firm in his beliefs that gay marriage is wrong.  ARe you not afraid that he would try to select judges who would share these views?
The president submits the budget to congress, who usually changes whatever they want, and they eventually send it back to the president for approval. So I think his tax planning is a moot point since he has no control over it and it won't happen,  but he could reject the budget so it isn't a moot point.

Since abortions and gay marriage already are in place due to supreme Court decisions, I would prefer some Rubio nominated justices over Clinton justices. I think there could be some gun control decisions in the future and I sure do like my guns.
You keep saying this like it is true.  I literally checked to see if somehow posts got deleted.  If you look at abortion access after PP vs Casey you would be able to tell that abortion rights are be eroded in many areas in a concentrated effort using TRAP laws.  How about go a little googling before just repeating the same FALSE statement that I personally have responded against three times?  You are posting in "legitimate criticisms" which means you have to deal with reality not fantasy.

Jack

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #675 on: February 26, 2016, 05:41:47 AM »
You keep saying this like it is true.  I literally checked to see if somehow posts got deleted.  If you look at abortion access after PP vs Casey you would be able to tell that abortion rights are be eroded in many areas in a concentrated effort using TRAP laws.  How about go a little googling before just repeating the same FALSE statement that I personally have responded against three times?  You are posting in "legitimate criticisms" which means you have to deal with reality not fantasy.

Argumentum ad nauseam does seem to be his favorite tactic.

nereo

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #676 on: February 26, 2016, 06:03:34 AM »

I don't agree with Rubios social views, but I don't think as president he would have the power to reverse Roe v Wade or Obergefell v Hodges. Maybe he could help push a 20 week limit through, but it's doubtful.

Only the Supreme Court could reverse Roe v. Wade (short of a constitutional amendment).  However, you were the one that brought up nominations of Supreme Court justices.  I'm just pointing out that he's opposed judges because he viewed them to by "pro-choice" (Sotomayor) and he seems very firm in his beliefs that gay marriage is wrong.  ARe you not afraid that he would try to select judges who would share these views?
The president submits the budget to congress, who usually changes whatever they want, and they eventually send it back to the president for approval. So I think his tax planning is a moot point since he has no control over it and it won't happen,  but he could reject the budget so it isn't a moot point.
[/quote]
Regarding the former, you are correct that a president submits to congress his or her budget request in the first month of the year.  After the CBO evaluates an analysis of the budget it goes to both the house and senate sub-committees where each makes budget resolutions and can tack on amendments to the budget.  THey can also refuse to pass any budget and funding levels will default to the prior-year's budget.  Then it gets voted on and sent back to the president to sign.  Which is all to say that the President has no legal control over the extensive amendment process; congress (not the President) ultimately decides what goes into the Budget.  THe President can merely decide to sign or veto the budget Congress ultimately approves

Changes to the tax code aren't really different.  Any member of Congress can propose changes to the tax code.  The President can propose a tax cut by having the bill sponsored by someone in congress (see the Bush Tax Cuts for an example).  Again, the bill goes to committee where it can be extensively altered and members can tack on amendments, then it gets voted on by Congress (H+S) before being sent back to the President, who can sign or veto the bill.

In other words, the President cannot control what Congress does with regards to the budget OR taxation. In political campaigns ALL candidates like to tout how their tax plan or their budget will lead to relief and prosperity for all, but in reality they have no direct control over what ultimately lands on the desk of the Oval Office.

Take Obama's latest budget proposal.  It's largely seen as being completely symbolic, calling for an almost 5% increase in annual spending and almost everyone concluded that it was "Dead On Arrival." The ultimate budget (if one gets passed) will look absolutely nothing like what Obama requested.  That's ok.  the Constitution always intended for Congress (not the President) to be in control of both budgeting and taxation. 

Quote
Since abortions and gay marriage already are in place due to supreme Court decisions, I would prefer some Rubio nominated justices over Clinton justices. I think there could be some gun control decisions in the future and I sure do like my guns.

I think you have a very unique view that those decisions are somehow 'safe'.  There are two major decisions on the Supreme Court's docket just for 2016 that deal directly with abortion (Mississippi and Texas, both focusing on the "admitting privledges" of doctors) as well as one about Contraception and the ACA.  Proponents on both sides of the debate fiercely argue that the Supreme Court's decisions could have a lasting impact on everything from abortion to affirmative action.

To flip this question around, what issues that are likely to come before the Supreme Court do you think would better be heard by a judge nominated by Marco Rubio, since you seem to disagree with him on both abortion and gay marriage?

GuitarStv

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #677 on: February 26, 2016, 06:13:46 AM »
I'm just going to comment on this one for now - Rubio is a pro-life candidate.  In the senate he opposed Sotomayor nomination based on her Roe support.  He's also said that there's a consensus that life beings at conception so no abortion, and that we must ban all abortions after 20 weeks (and co-sponsored a bill in 2013 to ban abortions after 20 weeks).
more about his abortion views here.

Regarding Obergefell v. Hodges, here Rubio's recent statements are even more conservative.  He's stated that marriage is between a man and a woman, that "One-man-one-woman marriage existed before our laws", and that he "opposes gay marriage".

I'm not saying that these are bad views to have

Well I will!  These are bad views to have.

Jack

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #678 on: February 26, 2016, 06:20:36 AM »
I hate to say it, but if I were voting for a candidate based only on who he might nominate to the Supreme Court, I'd actually prefer Trump over Cruz, Rubio, or even Kasich. Maybe even over Clinton too, given 2nd Amendment issues.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #679 on: February 26, 2016, 06:28:05 AM »
I'm just going to comment on this one for now - Rubio is a pro-life candidate.  In the senate he opposed Sotomayor nomination based on her Roe support.  He's also said that there's a consensus that life beings at conception so no abortion, and that we must ban all abortions after 20 weeks (and co-sponsored a bill in 2013 to ban abortions after 20 weeks).
more about his abortion views here.

Regarding Obergefell v. Hodges, here Rubio's recent statements are even more conservative.  He's stated that marriage is between a man and a woman, that "One-man-one-woman marriage existed before our laws", and that he "opposes gay marriage".

I'm not saying that these are bad views to have

Well I will!  These are bad views to have.
Hmm... perhaps I should ahve worded that (bolded section) differently. I do not agree with these views, but I was attempting to present the issues in as factual a manner as possible. 
I was just surprised that someone who identifies as 'socially liberal' would favor Rubio to nominate the next Supreme Court justice(s).  Given that there's one vacancy already (which may or may not be filled) and two justices that will be >80 at inaugeration (RB Ginsberg + Kennedy) and Breyer will be 78, it seems likely that the next POTUS may appoint more at least one justice.

dramaman

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #680 on: February 26, 2016, 06:34:45 AM »
I agree that Rubio's tax plan is a moot point of argument. But that doesn't mean that he won't be able to go the easier route and simply enact unpaid for tax cuts just like Reagan and GWB did. In fact I would almost guarantee that happens. It is just a too easy and tempting way for a Republican President to buy popular favor by cutting taxes.

I also agree that Rubio's Supreme Court picks would have a real impact on abortion access. TRAP laws are notorious for putting abortion providers out of business by over regulating them to the point of making them too costly to afford. That has been going on here in Kansas with at least one clinic having to close while another is spending lots of money to comply with the regulations. But because the TRAP laws are intended to drive clinics out of business, if a clinic does comply with the current laws, the legislature just passes new ones to up the ante until they have achieved their goal of driving EVERY clinic out of business. Just like that clinic in Alabama which spent millions of dollars to move to a new facility that was in compliance and now the lawmakers are wanting to pass a law that says that they cannot be within 2,000 feet of an elementary school. The Supreme Court needs to declare these TRAP laws as unreasonable otherwise abortion can be effectively regulated out of existence. I doubt a Supreme Court justice chosen by Rubio will really care if that happens.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #681 on: February 26, 2016, 06:53:30 AM »

I don't agree with Rubios social views, but I don't think as president he would have the power to reverse Roe v Wade or Obergefell v Hodges. Maybe he could help push a 20 week limit through, but it's doubtful.

Only the Supreme Court could reverse Roe v. Wade (short of a constitutional amendment).  However, you were the one that brought up nominations of Supreme Court justices.  I'm just pointing out that he's opposed judges because he viewed them to by "pro-choice" (Sotomayor) and he seems very firm in his beliefs that gay marriage is wrong.  ARe you not afraid that he would try to select judges who would share these views?
The president submits the budget to congress, who usually changes whatever they want, and they eventually send it back to the president for approval. So I think his tax planning is a moot point since he has no control over it and it won't happen,  but he could reject the budget so it isn't a moot point.
Quote
Regarding the former, you are correct that a president submits to congress his or her budget request in the first month of the year.  After the CBO evaluates an analysis of the budget it goes to both the house and senate sub-committees where each makes budget resolutions and can tack on amendments to the budget.  THey can also refuse to pass any budget and funding levels will default to the prior-year's budget.  Then it gets voted on and sent back to the president to sign.  Which is all to say that the President has no legal control over the extensive amendment process; congress (not the President) ultimately decides what goes into the Budget.  THe President can merely decide to sign or veto the budget Congress ultimately approves

Changes to the tax code aren't really different.  Any member of Congress can propose changes to the tax code.  The President can propose a tax cut by having the bill sponsored by someone in congress (see the Bush Tax Cuts for an example).  Again, the bill goes to committee where it can be extensively altered and members can tack on amendments, then it gets voted on by Congress (H+S) before being sent back to the President, who can sign or veto the bill.

In other words, the President cannot control what Congress does with regards to the budget OR taxation. In political campaigns ALL candidates like to tout how their tax plan or their budget will lead to relief and prosperity for all, but in reality they have no direct control over what ultimately lands on the desk of the Oval Office.

Take Obama's latest budget proposal.  It's largely seen as being completely symbolic, calling for an almost 5% increase in annual spending and almost everyone concluded that it was "Dead On Arrival." The ultimate budget (if one gets passed) will look absolutely nothing like what Obama requested.  That's ok.  the Constitution always intended for Congress (not the President) to be in control of both budgeting and taxation. 

Quote
Since abortions and gay marriage already are in place due to supreme Court decisions, I would prefer some Rubio nominated justices over Clinton justices. I think there could be some gun control decisions in the future and I sure do like my guns.

I think you have a very unique view that those decisions are somehow 'safe'.  There are two major decisions on the Supreme Court's docket just for 2016 that deal directly with abortion (Mississippi and Texas, both focusing on the "admitting privledges" of doctors) as well as one about Contraception and the ACA.  Proponents on both sides of the debate fiercely argue that the Supreme Court's decisions could have a lasting impact on everything from abortion to affirmative action.

To flip this question around, what issues that are likely to come before the Supreme Court do you think would better be heard by a judge nominated by Marco Rubio, since you seem to disagree with him on both abortion and gay marriage?
I see about a 0% chance of Rubios tax plan happening, and more than a 0% chance of him affecting the budget. I'm confused why you can't understand this.

infogoon

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #682 on: February 26, 2016, 06:54:30 AM »
I hate to say it, but if I were voting for a candidate based only on who he might nominate to the Supreme Court, I'd actually prefer Trump over Cruz, Rubio, or even Kasich. Maybe even over Clinton too, given 2nd Amendment issues.

Agreed. Trump is unpredictable, but compared to a theocratic fascist like Cruz he's actually an appealing candidate.

I'm a far-left pinko hippie commie liberal, and even I'm thinking I'd rather vote for Governor Romney than any of the clowns that were on the stage last night. This election year is bizarre.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #683 on: February 26, 2016, 07:07:29 AM »

I see about a 0% chance of Rubios tax plan happening, and more than a 0% chance of him affecting the budget. I'm confused why you can't understand this.
I suppose because I completely disagree.  The president affects both the taxsand the budget in the same manner - by signing (or vetoing) legislation put in front of him by Congress.  Since you brought up the national debt and debt-to-GDP it seems reasonable to consider both revenue and expenses.

Let's make this simpler.  How do you think Rubio will affect the budget for "the better"?


dramaman

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #684 on: February 26, 2016, 07:13:10 AM »
I see about a 0% chance of Rubios tax plan happening, and more than a 0% chance of him affecting the budget.

The budget is only half of the matter. Taxation policy is an entirely different matter. As a Republican who panders to tax hating conservatives, there is no reason to think that Rubio won't be inclined and able to push through individual tax cuts that hurt the deficit. If the deficit worries you, this should be a concern.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #685 on: February 26, 2016, 10:52:42 AM »
I wish I could just watch highlights of the GOP debate, but I feel all of the places that make highlights are biased towards a specific candidate and will think anything they do is a highlight and anything against them isn't......

Kris

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #686 on: February 26, 2016, 11:17:17 AM »
I wish I could just watch highlights of the GOP debate, but I feel all of the places that make highlights are biased towards a specific candidate and will think anything they do is a highlight and anything against them isn't......

I watched the whole thing.  Here's a pretty good recap:


nereo

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #687 on: February 26, 2016, 11:26:47 AM »
I wish I could just watch highlights of the GOP debate, but I feel all of the places that make highlights are biased towards a specific candidate and will think anything they do is a highlight and anything against them isn't......
Agreed.  That's the problem with all highlights - they are inherently biased.  I watched some of the debate last night and my only conclusion is that it was more a verbal street fight than a debate.

EDIT;  In other words, I didn't learn anything about any of the candidates from last night's debate.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 11:39:26 AM by nereo »

Gin1984

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #688 on: February 26, 2016, 11:33:51 AM »
Kris, how did you get through, I have not been able this entire season.

Kris

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #689 on: February 26, 2016, 11:36:03 AM »
Kris, how did you get through, I have not been able this entire season.

To watch the debate, you mean?

Gin1984

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #690 on: February 26, 2016, 11:39:14 AM »
Kris, how did you get through, I have not been able this entire season.

To watch the debate, you mean?
Yes.  I can't finish one.  It just seems like such a train-wreak.

Kris

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #691 on: February 26, 2016, 11:40:18 AM »
Kris, how did you get through, I have not been able this entire season.

To watch the debate, you mean?
Yes.  I can't finish one.  It just seems like such a train-wreak.

Ah.  Yes, it is a complete train wreck.  My husband and I mix a shaker of cocktails first, and when we're buzzed, he pops popcorn.  I'm not kidding.  Without this ritual, I wouldn't be able to stand what a complete clusterfuck the Republican slate is.

nereo

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #692 on: February 26, 2016, 11:43:52 AM »
Kris, how did you get through, I have not been able this entire season.

To watch the debate, you mean?
Yes.  I can't finish one.  It just seems like such a train-wreak.

Ah.  Yes, it is a complete train wreck.  My husband and I mix a shaker of cocktails first, and when we're buzzed, he pops popcorn.  I'm not kidding.  Without this ritual, I wouldn't be able to stand what a complete clusterfuck the Republican slate is.

at first we were going to make a drinking game out of it, but we couldn't come up with any phrase or event that wouldn't happen so many times that we'd be in great danger of alcohol poisoning by the end.  In the end we sat there and periodically yelled at our computer.  About half way through we decided to pay a game of Ticket to Ride instead.

Kris

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #693 on: February 26, 2016, 11:45:15 AM »
Kris, how did you get through, I have not been able this entire season.

To watch the debate, you mean?
Yes.  I can't finish one.  It just seems like such a train-wreak.

Ah.  Yes, it is a complete train wreck.  My husband and I mix a shaker of cocktails first, and when we're buzzed, he pops popcorn.  I'm not kidding.  Without this ritual, I wouldn't be able to stand what a complete clusterfuck the Republican slate is.

at first we were going to make a drinking game out of it, but we couldn't come up with any phrase or event that wouldn't happen so many times that we'd be in great danger of alcohol poisoning by the end.  In the end we sat there and periodically yelled at our computer.  About half way through we decided to pay a game of Ticket to Ride instead.

Yeah, for the first debate, we did devise a simple drinking game, but we had to stop about half an hour in.  Again, not kidding.

MDM

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #694 on: February 26, 2016, 12:37:14 PM »
Yeah, for the first debate, we did devise a simple drinking game, but we had to stop about half an hour in.  Again, not kidding.

For 1/2 the country: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-official-gop-debate-drinking-game-rules-pt-10-20160225.

For the other 1/2: http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/meme-reveals-hilarious-official-bernie-sanders-drinking-game.

infogoon

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #695 on: February 26, 2016, 12:53:24 PM »
As I posted in the Lent thread, I gave up drinking alcohol for Lent this year.

I'm never doing that during a Presidential election year again.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #696 on: February 26, 2016, 12:53:49 PM »
Yeah, for the first debate, we did devise a simple drinking game, but we had to stop about half an hour in.  Again, not kidding.

For 1/2 the country: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-official-gop-debate-drinking-game-rules-pt-10-20160225.

For the other 1/2: http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/meme-reveals-hilarious-official-bernie-sanders-drinking-game.
I'm pretty sure if someone tried to play the GOP one they would die. The part about drinking every time Carson recites part of the constitution or bible made me laugh a lot haha

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #697 on: February 26, 2016, 01:09:56 PM »
Going back to the previous discussion about polling, I found this one amusing:

Quote
Finally we find that 38% of Florida voters think it's possible that Ted Cruz is the Zodiac Killer. 10% say he for sure is, and another 28% say that they are just not sure. Cruz is exonerated from being a toddler serial killer by 62% of the Sunshine State populace.

(Note: Cruz was born in 1970, two years after the Zodiac killer began murdering people. Insert Fark.com "Florida" tag here.)

dramaman

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #698 on: February 26, 2016, 01:27:33 PM »
Going back to the previous discussion about polling, I found this one amusing:

Quote
Finally we find that 38% of Florida voters think it's possible that Ted Cruz is the Zodiac Killer. 10% say he for sure is, and another 28% say that they are just not sure. Cruz is exonerated from being a toddler serial killer by 62% of the Sunshine State populace.

(Note: Cruz was born in 1970, two years after the Zodiac killer began murdering people. Insert Fark.com "Florida" tag here.)

If I was the Zodiak killer that is precisely the kind of alibi that I'd want to have lined up.

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Re: Legitimate criticisms of each 2016 Presidential Candidate
« Reply #699 on: February 26, 2016, 01:29:25 PM »
(Note: Cruz was born in 1970, two years after the Zodiac killer began murdering people. Insert Fark.com "Florida" tag here.)

Allegedly.