This whole thread has been really interesting and I've appreciated all the perspectives. If it's not too much of a tangent, I have a question for the childless by choice here.
I have kids, but I also think that people who don't want kids should definitely not have kids. People who could take or leave kids should probably not have kids. Nothing's ever 100%, but unless you're pretty sure, I think you should err on the side of not having kids.
Anyway, more than once friends have told me they're not planning on having kids, and they did it in a way that was kinda confrontational. Like "I know you're not going to like this, but we're not planning on having kids."
I know there's a lot of baggage that gets heaped on the childless (by choice, and also terribly, not by choice), but am I allowed to be a little irked at the assumption that I must feel the same as those jerks just because I have kids?
The confrontational tone just comes from defensiveness. While I think most people do understand why one may want to be childless by choice, at least on some level, it's incredibly rare for someone to voice that support. I've learned to keep these conversations light, and when kids come up I just demur with a simple "we're not sure but leaning towards no," (really we are at about 95% no), and the response is always, always, always, "well you still have time," rather than, "it's not for everyone." I look younger than I am, but most people bringing kids up with me know I'm 31. Am I really going to have a sea change on this in the next 4 years? I'm pretty doubtful. (Not that 35 is a hard cutoff, but I do worry greatly about the health implications of having kids much later than that, particularly because I do not think I am up to caring for a special needs child ---- one of the bigger reasons why we are leaning towards a childfree life.)
Perhaps this is on me for not being firm enough in stating our decision, but I think the self doubt just comes from society telling me again and again and again that kids are what's supposed to happen next. Even my best friend semi recently said that she has no doubt that we'll wind up with a kid, and since she had a baby a year ago I suddenly feel like I can no longer talk about the reasons I don't want kids. Because it does sort of feel like an attack on her whole life, now. Going back to the special needs thing, I think many people have kids just kind of discounting that possibility, and personally I think you should either 1) know you are willing to give everything to your child regardless of what they need, even if it might be the rest of your life or 2) not have kids, because otherwise it's just a huge display of hubris and denial. But am I going to say that to my best friend? Of course not. And maybe more people fall into the first category than I realize, but I know that I do not want to spend the rest of my life being a caretaker for a severely disabled child, no matter how much I find myself in love once that child exists in the world.
And the trajectory of our lives are going to be so different now. She's planning another kid in a few years and she and her husband will both eventually be very high earners but they will live in a two income household and work for at least the next 20 years most likely in the same city where they live now, 20 years of rushed meals and driving kids to soccer practice no matter how much they try to avoid the pressure of extracurriculars and tutors and over scheduled kids. Whereas my husband and I are looking at freedom from work in about a decade, and will spend our nonwork hours this decade cooking slow meals, going on bike rides and hikes, traveling a lot. She'll be able to do some of that of course, but not like she did before. And it's a trade off that I think she is extremely happy with, but its hard for me to look at it and not feel like she got the short end of the stick.
So it's a tough conversation to have, and tough conversations do not always go well. I think its also one of the rare tough conversations that is allowed to come up in polite company. Also, I have to ask: why do people keep telling you they're not having kids? Is it because you keep asking? :)
