Kids vs. Child Free

[NewJourney]

I'm at a point in my life where I kinda have to make a crucial decision. My boyfriend wants kids in the next few years. And let's just say, I've never enjoyed being around kids and I thought I'd grow out of it, and I left it at that. (5 years later) I revisit the topic, and let's just say now that I think about it. It sounds like the most horrible life ruining thing I could do.

People with kids please don't be offended, I just mean it personally.

If you have a kid, you give up your freedom, if t doesn't work out with that person your stuck anyway, you can't just up and leave. Not to mention so many of my friends marriage feel apart after having kids, a select few just making it work, and the only thing they do is complain.

Not to mention when we women have to go through. It honestly looks like one of the most horrible things to put our body through..

Thoughts?  I'm at a loss...every man I've been with all want kids, but I'm so happy where I am right now. Is it something I'll get over if I give it a few years? My boyfriend and my mom  think it's because I'm still young and just not ready quite yet

[Kris]

It sounds like you sincerely don't want kids. 

Imagine having them anyway.  Imagine the negative effect that would have on the well-being of any child you would have.  On you.  And on your relationship with the child's father.

Not every man wants kids.  But many people who want kids tend to think that everyone, deep down, should or will want them if they are "normal." 

You owe it to yourself and everyone involved to not allow yourself to be swayed boy others' opinions.  This is too important to let others have a say in what you want. 

I am much the way you are.  I am now almost 49, and so, so thankful I never had children.  I am also happily married -- in my case, to someone who had children from a previous marriage.  I was married before to someone who did not want children. We didn't work out, but not because of the children issue.

Find someone who is on board with you.  I know it is a tremendously difficult thing to contemplate that the person you are with is not the right person for you because of this, but if one of you definitely wants kids and the other definitely doesn't, then you will need to face that you have a basic, fundamwntal incompatibility.  You might consider seeing a counselor to talk through this and find the strength to contemplate closing the door on this relationship.

[okits]

Some people change their minds/get to a different place in their lives/feel the biological drive to reproduce/find the right co-parent.  It does not necessarily mean you will, and given the (sometimes) enormous sacrifices one makes as a parent, from a self-interest standpoint I think it is very logical to not want children. 

You and your SO need to discuss how you feel about your relationship should neither of you change your minds.  You have almost two decades more where you could possibly reproduce (either by natural or assisted means), so I don't think you can predict with 100% certainty that you'll never feel differently.  But you can proceed assuming it's extremely unlikely you will and figure out where you go from there.  Your SO may be committed to you even if you never change your mind.  He may choose to wait a few years to see if you begin to feel differently.  Or, as Kris said, you two may choose to part ways over this.  Be honest with each other but true to what you each want. 

[mxt0133]

Be honest with your boyfriend a let him know exactly how you feel.  In my case it was not a matter of having kids but the number of kids.  I was initially indifferent about the exact number, so long as we could support them to a certain standard.  Where as my wife always wanted 4, how she got that number I have not idea, I mean it's not even a prime number! 

But after two kids I thought I was done, but she wanted to have 2 more so that caused a lot of tension between us.  I told her that she should not try to convince me to have another child because I would use it as an out when things get tough.  She listened and I decided I wanted another child after a few months.  So when things get hard and I have dreams of going to the airport with the clothes on my back and picking a random international one way flight, I have no one blame for being in the situation I'm in and come to my senses.  So now I'm really done and my wife has come to terms with not having any more children, with me anyways.

Stand up for what you feel is right for you and don't let anyone pressure into having kids if you don't feel it's right.  It won't be fair to you or the child.

[mrpercentage]

They aren't for everyone but they are a deal breaker. If someone really wants them they will grow bitter and the relationship will suffer horribly without them getting that desire. It could take years before it falls apart but I think the odds say it will unless they come to a change of heart. That is one of the big match makers

[Pigeon]

I think it's time for some serious and difficult discussions with your bf.

I never had any burning desire for kids.  Dh did, but when we got married, he was OK with the idea that it might not happen.  We did end up with two kids.  I love my own kids, and am very happy I had them.  One is now in college and the other isn't far behind.  Honestly, I'm dreading the empty nest thing.

But, I'm not a kid person.  I loved my own, but I don't like other people's kids, for the most part.  I know some women who get all weird at the sight of a baby, and that I do not understand.  Being a SAHM is about the least appealing thing I can think of.

Having kids does change your life hugely.  It's not all about you and it won't be all about you again for a very long time.  If you don't want to do it, you shouldn't.  Good luck, it's a tough situation.

[NewJourney]

I feel like how I was raised had a lot to do with it.  Watching my THREE siblings was the worse torture imaginable For me. Changing diapers, never being able to enjoy myself because I was too busy following them around making sure they didn't hurt themselves, then when they went too far dragging them back to the yard (I was only 9 and could barely lift them) as the other ones ran off. My parents literally would leave me with them for HOURS.

My family was also all a lot older than me on both sides, so my siblings were the only kids I was ever around. The rest of my family being child free and always telling me kids ruin your life. Nap I also got that engrained in my head. Never got to be around the apparent "joy" that comes from it, so never got it.

It all boils down to a dog that we got a few days ago too. The animals refuses to listen to me, and poops all over the house and barks constantly unless my ex is here, then it behaves. With a kid, you can't just put it in a crate like the dog. And I was so stressed I cried for an hour.

Everyone thinks it's the way I was raised and that I need to stop holding onto it and embrace kids..so I can enjoy having no freedom, always stressed, because apparently it's all worth it when you have it.

I don't know, I'm 24. I'm finally to a point in my life where I feel like I'm finally getting it together, and I'm happier than I've ever been...then I hit this wall

[NewJourney]

But everyone keeps telling me...it's worth it. All of it. And I'm just not ready and what I'm going through is normal as I'm still young. Everyone keeps telling me I'm experiencing normal emotions. They says its worth the havoc it has on your body, getting all torn up.

When I hear this...I'm like..you're crazy. All of you. Nothing is worth that. So I don't know who to call bu!?@&$? on.

[Kris]

But everyone keeps telling me...it's worth it. All of it. And I'm just not ready and what I'm going through is normal as I'm still young. Everyone keeps telling me I'm experiencing normal emotions. They says its worth the havoc it has on your body, getting all torn up.

When I hear this...I'm like..you're crazy. All of you. Nothing is worth that. So I don't know who to call bu!?@&$? on.

You have to listen to yourself. Most people tell you it's worth it because most people have kids.  They can't tell you if it's worth it for you.

Reading what you write here, you sound like me at your age. I never wanted kids, but people kep telling me I was just going through a phase, I was selfish, I would change my mind one day... Well, I never did.  The societal push to have children is a lot like the societal push toward materialism. It's "normal" to be mortgaged up to your eyeballs and crave nicer cars, expensive things, etc.  If you don't want those things, many will try to talk you into it.

I'm not saying children are bad. But there are plenty of other people who will have them.  There is absolutely no reason that anyone should be trying to talk you into having them. Just because it's what most people do doesn't mean it's what everyone has to want.

[lthenderson]

When I was in my mid twenties like yourself, I felt the same way. I wanted my freedom and didn't want the burdens of family life. But as my twenties faded, most of my friends got married and had kids and the group that I spent my freedom with slowly disappeared. Eventually I felt like the odd person out who wasn't married and didn't have kids. Eventually in my 30's I married and at 33, had my first child. Six years later at 39 I had another one. When I had both, my mentality had matured along with the rest of me and suddenly I saw that there was more to life. Having two kids has been immensely fulfilling and I wouldn't trade it for my single life and "freedom" that I had in my mid twenties.

You are young and have plenty of time to decide if you want kids. I think you need to be honest with your boyfriend so that there everyone is fully aware of the situation. As you get older, your desires with children may stay the same or change and you can re-evaluate things then.

[smalllife]

But everyone keeps telling me...it's worth it. All of it. And I'm just not ready and what I'm going through is normal as I'm still young. Everyone keeps telling me I'm experiencing normal emotions. They says its worth the havoc it has on your body, getting all torn up.

When I hear this...I'm like..you're crazy. All of you. Nothing is worth that. So I don't know who to call bu!?@&$? on.

You have to listen to yourself. Most people tell you it's worth it because most people have kids.  They can't tell you if it's worth it for you.

Reading what you write here, you sound like me at your age. I never wanted kids, but people kep telling me I was just going through a phase, I was selfish, I would change my mind one day... Well, I never did.  The societal push to have children is a lot like the societal push toward materialism. It's "normal" to be mortgaged up to your eyeballs and crave nicer cars, expensive things, etc.  If you don't want those things, many will try to talk you into it.

I'm not saying children are bad. But there are plenty of other people who will have them.  There is absolutely no reason that anyone should be trying to talk you into having them. Just because it's what most people do doesn't mean it's what everyone has to want.

+1

Some people want kids, some people have kids for one reason or another, some get talked into having kids, some are "eh" and would be happy either way, some want but can't have, and some don't want.  All are valid.  A few are more visible than others and a few have more publicity, but all are valid feelings and options. 

That being said, I can usually guess who was in which camp and would not recommend getting talked into it - it just makes everybody miserable.

[charis]

You are perfectly entitled to you opinion about not wanting kids.  Yes, you could change your mind, but you may not.  In my early to mid 20s, I wanted nothing to do with kids, but I did, in the dark far off corners of my mind, picture a life with kids at some point.   You sound pretty certain.   

That said, however, your concerns about your body and crumbling marriages sounds a little over the top.  Very few of my married friends/acquaintances who had kids (in their late 20s, early 30s) are splitting up (at this point, I should say).    And, yes, some people have body changes after kids, but they aren't/don't have be permanent.  I'm not even sure what you are worried about there.

[Doubleh]

I think all you can do at this stage is be open and honest - both with yourself and your partner. I know plenty of couples that don't want kids and are very happy with that decision. The absolute worst thing you could do is have kids when you don't really want them - it's not good for you or for the kids.

That said a lot changes between mid 20s and mid 30s and you shouldn't necessarily assume that not wanting kids now doesn't mean you never will. It would be premature to break up an otherwise good relationship on the grounds of how you think now that you will feel in a decade. It would be unfair to mislead your partner about your intentions but if he knows that you don't think children are for you and is happy to wait and re-evaluate you may find that your desires converge. Many women, and to a lesser extent men too, do find their views on children changing unexpectedly out of the blue in their early 30s. Not saying it so happen to you and if it doesn't that's fine too. Just statistically it may well do.

Lastly don't take your interest in other people's kids as a good predictor of your desire to have your own - while my wife would always fawn over any small children she saw in the street I had no interest in other people's kids until my own daughter came along and I love her more than anything.

[former player]

Admitting to regret in having kids is a big taboo, plus misery loves company.   I'm not surprised you're feeling pressure from those who have had kids.

In your case it sounds to me as though you have already been through your child-rearing years.  There aren't many people who would chose to start the whole process again 15 years after they started it for the first time.

Be true to yourself, be honest in your relationships, consider whether future change is a possibility.  Then you are doing everything you can to be a decent human being living a good life and making choices that are right for you.

You could check out the Voluntary Human Extinction site - http://www.vhemt.org/ - if you ever feel the need for supporting arguments against procreation.

[hunniebun]

I can tell you this - when I was 24 I had no interest in kids at all - in any way shape of form.  My boyfriend at the time (now husband) was 100% sure you wanted them and I was 100% that I didn't.  We just lived our lives and when I was 28 he wanted to start 'trying'...I reluctantly agreed and was almost sick over it (for all the reasons you stated) and said no go, he is so laid back he said what fine- whatever I wanted.  Fast Forward a few more years (at 31) and suddenly I wanted a baby more than anything. I completely had baby fever.  I was just 'ready'.  So two babies later, I have survived all the things that I never thought I would and am so glad to be a mom.  You have time on your side and still have a least another 14-15 years to think about it, change your mind, and change your mind again.  It may be that you never change your mind and that is okay too!  You can certainly have a wonderful life without kids.  No one can decide but you, I guess I am just letting you know that feelings about it can change. 

[justajane]

Admitting to regret in having kids is a big taboo, plus misery loves company.   I'm not surprised you're feeling pressure from those who have had kids.

It's probably a big taboo because it's a terrible thing for a child not to feel wanted. It's likely the best response for a parent to repress that emotion if they feel it.

I think regret in general is a difficult thing to admit, and those who didn't have children who might regret it are also probably loathe to admit it either to others or to themselves. Even if they admit it to themselves privately, they might be afraid of all the "I told you so" responses if they admit it to others.

Lack of regret is a healthy response. It's a way to validate your own choices without even knowing you are doing so. To walk around with regret about the child you either had or didn't have is very unhealthy. And it's not like kids can be returned or gotten rid of like someone could do if they regret a career path or a move or marrying a certain spouse.

[wenchsenior]

But everyone keeps telling me...it's worth it. All of it. And I'm just not ready and what I'm going through is normal as I'm still young. Everyone keeps telling me I'm experiencing normal emotions. They says its worth the havoc it has on your body, getting all torn up.

When I hear this...I'm like..you're crazy. All of you. Nothing is worth that. So I don't know who to call bu!?@&$? on.

You have to listen to yourself. Most people tell you it's worth it because most people have kids.  They can't tell you if it's worth it for you.

Reading what you write here, you sound like me at your age. I never wanted kids, but people kep telling me I was just going through a phase, I was selfish, I would change my mind one day... Well, I never did.  The societal push to have children is a lot like the societal push toward materialism. It's "normal" to be mortgaged up to your eyeballs and crave nicer cars, expensive things, etc.  If you don't want those things, many will try to talk you into it.

I'm not saying children are bad. But there are plenty of other people who will have them.  There is absolutely no reason that anyone should be trying to talk you into having them. Just because it's what most people do doesn't mean it's what everyone has to want.

What Kris said. I had a perfectly happy normal upbringing in terms of two siblings. I was the oldest and had to help occasionally, and I didn't find it onerous. However, I was pretty sure I didn't want kids by the time I was starting college. There are a lot of potential life experiences out there, and not everyone is interested in having any particular one. I had no interest in babies, or little kids. Teens interested me slightly more, but came with the baggage of rebelliousness, moodiness, and snarkiness.

At around 20, I was still certainly leaving the door open to possibly changing my feelings as I aged, or if my significant other turned out to feel radically different.

He turned out to be indifferent: ok with having them, ok with not having them.

We kept occasionally revisiting the subject until I was in my mid 30s, at which point we felt we had to make a final call or risk him being a far older father than he wanted to be. I had even less interest in kids and child rearing by that point, so he got 'fixed'.

Now, I'm about to turn 45, and I still have zero interest, and the only potential regret would be not having 'hostages' who have to call me when I'm old and lonely. But whatever,  that's a trade-off I'm willing to live with.

However, if one person in a relationship definitely wants kids, and the other doesn't, that is definitely one of the deal-breakers because it so radically affects how your day to day lives together will be lived.

[GuitarStv]

I'm at a point in my life where I kinda have to make a crucial decision. My boyfriend wants kids in the next few years. And let's just say, I've never enjoyed being around kids and I thought I'd grow out of it, and I left it at that. (5 years later) I revisit the topic, and let's just say now that I think about it. It sounds like the most horrible life ruining thing I could do.

Kids suck.  Babies really really really really really suck.  Your own kid is somewhat better.  Your own baby . . . meh, not so much.  For the woman though, there's a lot of hormonal stuff that goes on that will actually rewire your brain into loving the monster post childbirth.  Plus your body releases chemicals that affect your memory, so much of the trauma will be forgotten or at best, hazily remembered (hence why women have more than one kid).

People with kids please don't be offended, I just mean it personally.

You didn't say anything that was untrue.

If you have a kid, you give up your freedom, if t doesn't work out with that person your stuck anyway, you can't just up and leave. Not to mention so many of my friends marriage feel apart after having kids, a select few just making it work, and the only thing they do is complain.

Yes.  Probably the hardest thing our marriage has had to endure is the birth and subsequent raising of our son.  You want a rock solid, long term, and very committed relationship before undergoing the child experience.

Not to mention when we women have to go through. It honestly looks like one of the most horrible things to put our body through..

This is kinda hit and miss for women.  It depends on a lot of factors.  Some are up and raring to go a couple days after childbirth.  Some (like my wife) have several weeks of agonizing recovery.  It's not all bad for your health though . . . breastfeeding and pregnancy released hormones have been linked to reduced breast cancer.  My understanding is that many vajayjay time of the month issues seem to resolve themselves for women post pregnancy.    There are some silver linings . . .  :P

Thoughts?  I'm at a loss...every man I've been with all want kids, but I'm so happy where I am right now. Is it something I'll get over if I give it a few years? My boyfriend and my mom  think it's because I'm still young and just not ready quite yet

As someone who was militantly against the idea of having kids during his 20s, I can attest that sometimes your views on the matter will change.  Don't tell anyone that you'll think differently in the future, but don't rule out the possibility that you will.

Kids don't make you happier.  They're not a wonder drug.  They do radically change/alter your life . . . but it's not all bad either.  Being someone who is resistant to change and likes pattern/order/predictability in my life, this has been quite an adjustment for me.  On the whole, it's probably a change for the best (though the first six months or so sure didn't seem that way).  There are very strong pros to having a kid . . . but they're not things I would have listed as pros when we were childless.

[Kris]

When I had both, my mentality had matured along with the rest of me and suddenly I saw that there was more to life. Having two kids has been immensely fulfilling and I wouldn't trade it for my single life and "freedom" that I had in my mid twenties.

Not to put to fine a point on it -- and lthenderson, I'm sure you did not mean to be condescending here -- this is part of what I'm talking about in terms of the pervasiveness of the suggestion in our society that people who don't have or want kids are somehow "less mature", and that they don't realize there is "more to life" than some sort of irresponsible, fake "freedom" that those of us who don't have kids labor under the illusion of.

So.  I am not consciously picking on ithenderson, but he/she has given a perfect example of the kinds of statements that can seem incredibly smug and even offensive to the child-free in what they imply.  I apologize in advance if the rest of this post sounds just a little snippy, but:

I just want to assert something: those of us who choose not to have children are not somehow less mature than people who have them.  Having children is not the end-all, be-all of existence (the "more to life").  Some of us might privately even say that in our opinion, there is more to life than raising children.  It's just that most of us would not feel free to say it in polite company, therefore implying that someone else's life choice is somehow silly or immature. 

[ShortInSeattle]

You are perfectly entitled to you opinion about not wanting kids.  Yes, you could change your mind, but you may not.  In my early to mid 20s, I wanted nothing to do with kids, but I did, in the dark far off corners of my mind, picture a life with kids at some point.   You sound pretty certain.   

That said, however, your concerns about your body and crumbling marriages sounds a little over the top.  Very few of my married friends/acquaintances who had kids (in their late 20s, early 30s) are splitting up (at this point, I should say).    And, yes, some people have body changes after kids, but they aren't/don't have be permanent.  I'm not even sure what you are worried about there.

+1

Think about if you want to be a parent or not. If the answer is no it's no one's business but you and your SO's. Your SO may need to leave the relationship - kids are one of those things you can't compromise on. So be honest and sort it out.

If you don't want kids my advice is to stop engaging others in conversation about it. People gave us all sorts of shit about being childfree so long as we were willing to discuss it with them. We stopped engaging and the debates dried up.

"When are you having kids?"
"I'm not."
"But why? Kids are.... (insert words)."
"I don't want to be a parent."

If they persist: "It's a personal decision - I'm not interested in discussing it."

Another favorite response is "Kids deserve parents who actually want them." Hard to argue with that.

[Chranstronaut]

*hug* NewJourney, I can commiserate.  It must be hard to work it all out in your mind when you see your potential future lives differing so much from what makes you happy now.  I'm 25, don't want kids and can understand much of what you say because I think about this, too.

Sometimes I just want to be validated in my opinion that I think having children isn't right for me.  I especially seek to be understood when I state that I know what I want for myself at age 25 (and that I reserve the right to change my mind without patronizing commentary).  I've never told her, but a friend of mine made me feel empowered in my own opinions when she had her tubes tied at age 23.  It took a long time to find a doctor that would do the procedure for her, and her strength in her decision is something I admire still.

PM me if you ever just want to chat.


On a note about your new dog: congrats!  I love little fuzzy friends, but man are they a ton of work!  Have you considered doing a training course?  I grew up with many dogs and thought I knew everything about training them from puppies.  When my family got a particularly stubborn puppy, we went to a proper class and it was a night-to-day change in our ability to work with the dog productively.  She needed more structure in our "pack" and we had to be much more rigid in our at-home behavior with her until she settled in.  She didn't act like our past dogs and we didn't know how to communicate with her without the trainer's help.  If you find yourself struggling to work with the dog, I'd strongly recommend going to a multi-class training course.  It;s great socialization for the dog and will teach both you some new tricks :) sorry I couldn't help myself...

[snacky]

I didn't want kids, had one by accident, and decided to give him a sibling. I don't regret their existence, but if they had never happened I would have been fine with it. I mean, I love the snot out of them but my happiness does not hinge on their existence, nor have they destroyed my happiness.

maybe what I mean is that kids are a choice, and it really is up to you, and f the haters?

also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoXtkK9d33o

[MandalayVA]

I just want to assert something: those of us who choose not to have children are not somehow less mature than people who have them.  Having children is not the end-all, be-all of existence (the "more to life").  Some of us might privately even say that in our opinion, there is more to life than raising children.  It's just that most of us would not feel free to say it in polite company, therefore implying that someone else's life choice is somehow silly or immature.

+1.  I once had a 19-year-old girl tell me in dead seriousness that she was more mature than me (late thirties at the time) because she had a kid and I didn't.  Why, yes, I did laugh in her face. 

[NewPerspective]

When I had both, my mentality had matured along with the rest of me and suddenly I saw that there was more to life. Having two kids has been immensely fulfilling and I wouldn't trade it for my single life and "freedom" that I had in my mid twenties.

Not to put to fine a point on it -- and lthenderson, I'm sure you did not mean to be condescending here -- this is part of what I'm talking about in terms of the pervasiveness of the suggestion in our society that people who don't have or want kids are somehow "less mature", and that they don't realize there is "more to life" than some sort of irresponsible, fake "freedom" that those of us who don't have kids labor under the illusion of.

So.  I am not consciously picking on ithenderson, but he/she has given a perfect example of the kinds of statements that can seem incredibly smug and even offensive to the child-free in what they imply.  I apologize in advance if the rest of this post sounds just a little snippy, but:

I just want to assert something: those of us who choose not to have children are not somehow less mature than people who have them.  Having children is not the end-all, be-all of existence (the "more to life").  Some of us might privately even say that in our opinion, there is more to life than raising children.  It's just that most of us would not feel free to say it in polite company, therefore implying that someone else's life choice is somehow silly or immature.

Totally agree with this!  Most people in the world do actually have kids and I see lots of examples daily of people who are selfish and/or immature.

[Cpa Cat]

I am childless by choice. I got married at 20 and people started harping on me right away about having kids. My husband and I weren't ready for it. People told us we'd change our minds. They joked that my biological clock was going to start ticking any minute!

Every year we'd revisit the question and every year we'd put it off for another year. Like you, I really don't enjoy being around children. Over time, my feelings of general ambivalence toward having children became strongly negative.  I simply don't feel nurturing toward children. I really don't connect with young people until they're at least 22 years old. There's no age range where I think kids are enjoyable.

I am 33 and I'm no longer on the fence. When people ask about it, I tell them that I'm childless by choice. And I'm happy. My husband is also happy with our decision, though he says that if I ever did change my mind, he'd be willing to make babies with me.

Regarding your dog: I suggest you find a dog training class that you can take the dog to. Just you and the dog - not your boyfriend. It will train the dog to respond to you and it will relieve a lot of the negativity you feel toward it. I think they have classes like that at Petco/Petsmart/etc. But you may have a variety of options available to you. On the bright side, the dog can be trained in a matter of weeks - kids on the other hand...

[lthenderson]

When I had both, my mentality had matured along with the rest of me and suddenly I saw that there was more to life. Having two kids has been immensely fulfilling and I wouldn't trade it for my single life and "freedom" that I had in my mid twenties.

Not to put to fine a point on it -- and lthenderson, I'm sure you did not mean to be condescending here -- this is part of what I'm talking about in terms of the pervasiveness of the suggestion in our society that people who don't have or want kids are somehow "less mature", and that they don't realize there is "more to life" than some sort of irresponsible, fake "freedom" that those of us who don't have kids labor under the illusion of.

So.  I am not consciously picking on ithenderson, but he/she has given a perfect example of the kinds of statements that can seem incredibly smug and even offensive to the child-free in what they imply.  I apologize in advance if the rest of this post sounds just a little snippy, but:

I just want to assert something: those of us who choose not to have children are not somehow less mature than people who have them.  Having children is not the end-all, be-all of existence (the "more to life").  Some of us might privately even say that in our opinion, there is more to life than raising children.  It's just that most of us would not feel free to say it in polite company, therefore implying that someone else's life choice is somehow silly or immature.

It wasn't my intention to imply that the OP is immature. If you looked back at my entire comment, I said I never wanted kids at her age but as I aged, my feelings about kids also changed. People change with age and this is called maturing. I am more mature now than I was a year ago but that doesn't mean the year younger version of myself was immature.

[Fishindude]

I would highly recommend marriage prior to children.
Your not even married.  Sounds like boyfriend has his priorities mixed up.

Good idea to forget having children for now.

[Baron235]

Having kids is awesome.  Also, do not take your dislike of other kids as indicative of how you would feel about your children. With that being said,   the real tough spot is if you never have kids of your own you will never know how great or bad it can be. Being a parent is one thing that you have experience to truly get it. 

The same with not having kids.  I have no idea how great my life could have been without kids.  I am happy that I had kids and couldn't imagine my life without them, but I probably would have still had a great life otherwise just different. 

In the end you make the best choice for you, but to be honest you will never know if not having kids was the right choice.  Sadly, you can't try it out. 

[WorkingToUnwind]

I don't have any children but would like one or two eventually. I realize that children have a tremendous impact on lifestyle and finances, so I often wonder if I really would be happier, more fulfilled, etc. with kids. Every time I've asked a parent, "Is it worth it?" they always say something along the lines of, "It's terribly hard and painful and ruins your life, but it's so worth it." What in the world do they mean by that?!

Humans are great at justifying past decisions, even bad ones (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/science/06tier.html?_r=0) Are all these parents simply rationalizing what can't be undone? I say this tongue in cheek, yet I do wonder...

[Meowmalade]

I had an interesting conversation with a friend about this recently.  They don't plan to have children-- she didn't feel strongly either way when they got married, but she did come to feel that she definitely did not want kids a few years later.  He had always just assumed that they would have children, because that's "what you do".

It really helped her argument to ask him why he wanted children.  His answer wasn't "I need to be a dad", it was based on his vision and assumption of what his life would look like, that he had never questioned.  Once he gave his answers, it was easy for her to refute them ("your kids will take care of you and be around?  Look at where we are and where our parents are-- across the world"), and he slowly became okay with the idea.  She revisited it yearly for several years to make sure that they were still on the same page, but now that she's approaching 40, she no longer feels the need to.

[fallstoclimb]

NewJourney, you are not alone in this.

I got married at 26.  At the time, I had no interest in kids. My husband was interested in kids down the line, and I assumed that my biological clock would wake up by then.  (And of course I fully disclosed my ambivalence.)

I'm 31 now.  If anything I am less interested than before in kids.  THANKFULLY, my husband has also done a complete 180.  I think if he still wanted kids, I would agree to one.  Sometimes I have inklings - I love my niece and nephew to pieces - but mostly I love the freedom we enjoy, and the intentional lives we lead.

I don't buy in to the "more to life" arguments.  Without kids, we have the time to volunteer & do advocacy work, and the money to donate to charity.  I think we will leave the world a better place moreso than many who have kids.  Plus, I have some real concerns about what the world will look like in 100 years, anyway.

This is the sort of issue you can only negotiate with frequent, honest discussions. 

[rubybeth]

I've been in a similar spot. I let my boyfriend (now husband) know I was pretty ambivalent leaning towards childfree when we started dating at a similar age to you. We got married in our late 20s and prioritized education and career over the question of kids. We're now in our mid-30s and it's still not the right time professionally or personally. Honestly, some days I think it would be fun to be parents together, but other days, I'm like, lemme lay on the couch with my beer and Netflix at 5pm and eat cookies for dinner. I think it's okay to feel both of those things, sometimes even simultaneously.

You're pretty young so I would say to try not to worry or stress out about this right now, except that you say your boyfriend wants to have kids soon, which seems kind of weird to me. First of all, he's just your boyfriend--you aren't married, and have no obligation to do what he wants. Second, you should be upfront with him now about your feelings--tell him you aren't sure you want kids at all, and may not ever change your mind. If he's not cool with that in any way, he should move on. It will suck, but it will open up both of you to other possibilities. If, however, he can be okay with that--without pressuring you to have a baby, without thinking he's somehow going to change your mind, and without hope that you will change your mind on your own, you could be fine and could proceed to get married (if that's what you want/is a priority for both of you). And you may change your mind at some point, or you may not. Your partner will just have to decide if you're "enough" for him, and will have to make that decision consciously and regularly--reaffirming your commitment to each other as a couple instead of as a family unit may not be as typical in some cultures, but I have to say it's sometimes interesting how many couples stay together "for the kids" and here I am with my husband who just stays with me... because he wants to be with me, and me alone.

If you do decide to stay together, I'd suggest therapy, because this is one of those issues that's pretty black and white, and you need to both be on the same page.

[jengod]

I would NEVER tell anyone to have kids. They are a pain in the ass.

But two responses come to mind when I read your post. I'll just leave them here and you can do with them what you will.

* You have to destroy the caterpillar to become a butterfly. You will lose the life you had, no doubt, but what's on the other side could very well be better/different than what you expected from your existing path.

* Do you want to discuss the specifics of the potential physical damage of childbearing? Because it's a natural system that's largely designed to work, and they can fix a great deal of what breaks. It's tender down there for a while, sure, and I truly wish I could sneeze violently without a drop of pee coming out, but honestly episiotomies were a small price to pay for my sons. #overshare

[GuitarStv]

Honestly, some days I think it would be fun to be parents together, but other days, I'm like, lemme lay on the couch with my beer and Netflix at 5pm and eat cookies for dinner. I think it's okay to feel both of those things, sometimes even simultaneously.

Sadly, you can't even train the little guys to get beer and cookies for you.  Half the time they get distracted and just wander off, the other half they eat all the damned cookies because you haven't provided them with supper.

[NewJourney]

You are perfectly entitled to you opinion about not wanting kids.  Yes, you could change your mind, but you may not.  In my early to mid 20s, I wanted nothing to do with kids, but I did, in the dark far off corners of my mind, picture a life with kids at some point.   You sound pretty certain.   

That said, however, your concerns about your body and crumbling marriages sounds a little over the top.  Very few of my married friends/acquaintances who had kids (in their late 20s, early 30s) are splitting up (at this point, I should say).    And, yes, some people have body changes after kids, but they aren't/don't have be permanent.  I'm not even sure what you are worried about there.

+1

Think about if you want to be a parent or not. If the answer is no it's no one's business but you and your SO's. Your SO may need to leave the relationship - kids are one of those things you can't compromise on. So be honest and sort it out.

If you don't want kids my advice is to stop engaging others in conversation about it. People gave us all sorts of shit about being childfree so long as we were willing to discuss it with them. We stopped engaging and the debates dried up.

"When are you having kids?"
"I'm not."
"But why? Kids are.... (insert words)."
"I don't want to be a parent."

If they persist: "It's a personal decision - I'm not interested in discussing it."

Another favorite response is "Kids deserve parents who actually want them." Hard to argue with that.

@jezebel I guess where I'm coming from is the experience my friend is having right now...her and her husband were that happiest couple. Then they had their daughter and me being friends with both of them...I hear it all...she is so depressed about how badly she got stretch marks, and how she hates her breasts because of how much they have changed. She also hasn't done any intimate acts with her husband since she had the baby over 10 months ago. Then he turns around to say that he's kind of traumatized from seeing what his wife went through, and that he's having a hard time getting it out of his head. This situation, while I'm guessing, Isn't that common..can still happen..and I'm terrified.

@shortinseatlle I agree..it happeneds a lot. And it's a struggle for me because I feel the pressure because apprantly that's what you're "supposed" to do, is have kids. My mom said I'm just being selfish, and that I just need to have at least one.  Well...my mom has always been right. Who knows if she's right again.

It's hard as well because I really don't know if I'm just not ready. Or if I really am a bad person to have kids..I'm never around them to tell. Except my 13 yr old sister..and if I was my mom dealing with her, i would honestly go INSANE from the remarks, sass, threats and constant trouble she's in.

But apparently..its "worth it all" 😞

[NewJourney]

Regarding your dog: I suggest you find a dog training class that you can take the dog to. Just you and the dog - not your boyfriend. It will train the dog to respond to you and it will relieve a lot of the negativity you feel toward it. I think they have classes like that at Petco/Petsmart/etc. But you may have a variety of options available to you. On the bright side, the dog can be trained in a matter of weeks - kids on the other hand...

Regarding the dog....I'm seriously having a love/hate relationship with it. It's fuzzy and cute..but holy SHIT. When it parks, shits, pees, begs, doesn't listen...it makes me miserable. Every bark and fresh pee smelling room puts me into tears because it upsets me so much. That all this time Ispend taking it outside and taking care of it, I could be doing something greater with my time. And now I just can't say to my boyfriend, let's go to Chicago today!! And we just drop and go. We have to find. PET SITTER first and plan it all ahead.....and a kid would make it so much worse,,cause you can't just drop off your kid at the kennels for $10 per day either

[pompera_firpa]

All those reasons not to have kids are absolutely true, but it sounds like you're looking for excuses when you don't actually need to-- you're not having to assemble evidence before a judge and jury to prove that you should be exempt from having to have kids. You don't have to prove this, and frankly bringing out a case, at all, means that people will try to pick apart your reasoning, disprove your evidence, and gaslight you into doubting your own feelings.

There are a lot of things in life that are both supremely difficult (and risky) and supremely rewarding. Having kids is one of them. Climbing Mt. Everest is another. There are a lot of really good reasons to not climb Mt. Everest, but in general the reasons don't tend to matter to the people who have the inner imperative to do so. Same thing with having kids: the reasons against the idea don't matter to the people who really, really want to do it. The only real difference (especially for those of us who actually have to do the pregnancy part) is that there aren't many people who have that inner drive to climb Mt. Everest, whereas the biological imperative to have kids is a hell of a lot more common.

"I'm not ready" is a lot different than "I don't want to". Fuck 'em if they try to convince you otherwise.

(And yes, you really do have to have an honest discussion about this with your boyfriend, very soon.)

[MandalayVA]

In the end you make the best choice for you, but to be honest you will never know if not having kids was the right choice.  Sadly, you can't try it out.

I don't know who said it, but it's very true--"I would rather regret not having children then regret having children."  And it's not about a "right" or "wrong" choice either.  As a woman I am grateful that I live in a time where I can make that choice at all.  I do some volunteer work with kids and that seems to satisfy what little maternal feelings I have, and I've always enjoyed being the cool aunt.

That's why I hate "pregnant stars" media coverage, which has put the insane idea in women's heads that one bounces back immediately from childbirth and can fit back into her size two skinny jeans within a month and not a mark anywhere.  I have been around enough pregnant and postpartum women to know that's complete and utter bullshit.   

[GuitarStv]

If your intimacy doesn't take a beating when you're sleep deprived, have aching leaky boobs, there's a screaming baby in the background, and you're up to your knees in vomitous poop* . . . I'd have some serious questions about how you're getting intimate in the first place.  As with everything children related, this should be a temporary situation (although it might seem interminable at the time).

*fun side story . . . I've come home from work to our dog throwing up our baby's poop on the upper landing after she managed to get into the diaper bin, while our son was projectile vomiting across our bedroom sheets (flu maybe?) and my wife had come down with a bad fever.  The best part of the whole scenario was that it was quite contagious and we all got it.  :P


FWIW, kiddie kennels totally exist, they're called daycare.

[charis]

I don't know who said it, but it's very true--"I would rather regret not having children then regret having children." 

This sounds nice, but it's impossible to know which you'd rather regret more unless you've experienced both, which you can't.
Has anyone ever heard someone say that they regret having kids?  I'm sure some people do (Timothy McVeigh's mother comes to mind).

@jezebel I guess where I'm coming from is the experience my friend is having right now...her and her husband were that happiest couple. Then they had their daughter and me being friends with both of them...I hear it all...she is so depressed about how badly she got stretch marks, and how she hates her breasts because of how much they have changed. She also hasn't done any intimate acts with her husband since she had the baby over 10 months ago. Then he turns around to say that he's kind of traumatized from seeing what his wife went through, and that he's having a hard time getting it out of his head. This situation, while I'm guessing, Isn't that common..can still happen..and I'm terrified.

Your friend sounds like she could be actually depressed and in need of professional help.  The first year after having a baby can certainly be tough, though, sometimes it's mostly about survival.  But everything you mentioned is so, so temporary (except the stretch marks maybe, but even severe ones fade).  Your fears are very normal. 

You really should table this decision for a few years, imho.  It doesn't sound like you are ready to make it.  Why is your BF rushing you?

[Glenstache]

Just echoing sentiments from above: there's nothing wrong with not wanting to have kids. My SO and I are both 40, and neither of us have wanted kids at any point. We had very frank discussions about it, and we're on the same page.

I've also watched friends not have those discussions before marriage and it leads to some unfortunate dynamics. Some of them worked it out and had kids and love them and are very happy about it. Some have gotten divorced over nothing but the importance of having kids. I've also had people with kids and who are great parents very frankly tell me that unless you really, really want them to not have them based on their own experience and what they gave up. From everything I've seen, this and finance are the most important and least discussed things in relationships prior to marriage. People do change over time, but I don't think it is worth planning on. It can and should be a deal breaker if people have strong opinions on kids that are not aligned. It also doesn't necessarily need to be a decision made instantly (well, at least until the mid-30s when increasing age of *both* the man and woman lead to increased complication rates).

[pompera_firpa]

@jezebel I guess where I'm coming from is the experience my friend is having right now...her and her husband were that happiest couple. Then they had their daughter and me being friends with both of them...I hear it all...she is so depressed about how badly she got stretch marks, and how she hates her breasts because of how much they have changed. She also hasn't done any intimate acts with her husband since she had the baby over 10 months ago. Then he turns around to say that he's kind of traumatized from seeing what his wife went through, and that he's having a hard time getting it out of his head. This situation, while I'm guessing, Isn't that common..can still happen..and I'm terrified.

@shortinseatlle I agree..it happeneds a lot. And it's a struggle for me because I feel the pressure because apprantly that's what you're "supposed" to do, is have kids. My mom said I'm just being selfish, and that I just need to have at least one.  Well...my mom has always been right. Who knows if she's right again.

It's hard as well because I really don't know if I'm just not ready. Or if I really am a bad person to have kids..I'm never around them to tell. Except my 13 yr old sister..and if I was my mom dealing with her, i would honestly go INSANE from the remarks, sass, threats and constant trouble she's in.

But apparently..its "worth it all" 😞

Look, if you are not looking down the barrel of your mid-30s-- which, pardon me for guessing, but it sounds like you're a fair piece before that point-- it's absurd to the point of insanity for people to pressure you on this. I know it sounds like it's the normal thing to do, that "everyone" does it, but why would that be a deciding factor on this?

There is no shortage of human beings on this earth, so the species does not require you to reproduce. There are many, many, MANY people who don't have kids and have a fine, full life. You are not required to have kids because your mom thinks you should, or because she taunts you about being "selfish". You are not required to have kids because your boyfriend wants to. The question is YOU, and it sounds like you're trying to get a good answer to this out of the internet when the only answer is your own.

If you would like a simple answer: don't have kids. Everything else is a lot more complicated, a lot harder, a lot scarier. Parenting should only be a volunteer organization, not one that people get conscripted into.

Frankly, it also sounds like your friends are pretty young, or at least fairly immature. There are a hell of a lot of people for whom getting married while being young and/or immature (there are a lot of immature 40-year-olds around, believe me) means serious problems when their lives hit the first big challenge. It could be having kids, it could be unemployment, it could be disease, it could be depression, it could be just moving to a different city-- when you hit that first bump in the road, a lot of stuff gets exposed in the relationship that you didn't know before, and that's when you find out for sure if you've got a relationship that can take some wear and tear. Lots of people don't. Lots of others do. Your friends will either get through it and be stronger for it, or they'll divorce.  It's not a question of people being the PERFECT COUPLE except that they have kids, it's that they're the PERFECT COUPLE but only when everything is going well.

[Dee18]

I've had several friends decide they didn't want children because they had so much responsibility for younger siblings while growing up.  That makes perfect sense to me.  My sister did not have kids and has the best marriage I know of, just had her 25th anniversary.  She and her husband travel a lot and just restored a home in France.  They both had careers in the arts that they loved and they have a vast network of friends.  You know what you want.  Yes, those feelings could change, but it doesn't sound likely. It does sound like you have more than one issue with the BF?  Did he talk with you about getting a dog?  Did you want a dog?  If he did not discuss it with you or ignored your feelings, I'd move on for sure.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I have kids. I always wanted kids. I wish I could have more kids. Only thing I have consistently wanted since childhood.

My husband didn't want kids. I pressured him into it. He knew I might walk. (We married very young, and not wanting kids happened a few years AFTER.)

Guess what? It sucks to co-parents with someone who didn't want kids. Yeah, he loves them and he's a good dad, but if he could, he would go back in time and not have them. And mentally, he charges them to my account, if you know what I mean. Like I got to have kids, so he should get to decide where we live. He also deeply resents the knowledge that I might have chosen the possibility of kids with someone else over our marriage. (For the record--our marriage is excellent in many ways. Just... this mismatch is not what I would have chosen for myself.)

Which is to say: Don't have kids for someone else. If you don't want them, don't have them.

[okits]

But everyone keeps telling me...it's worth it. All of it. And I'm just not ready and what I'm going through is normal as I'm still young. Everyone keeps telling me I'm experiencing normal emotions. They says its worth the havoc it has on your body, getting all torn up.

When I hear this...I'm like..you're crazy. All of you. Nothing is worth that. So I don't know who to call bu!?@&$? on.

Why does someone have to be full of BS?  Feelings are individual and they are all legitimate if applied to one's own life.  "That does/doesn't seem worth it for me" is right whenever someone says it. "That does/doesn't seem worth it for anyone" tries to impose the speaker's feelings and values on other people.  The people who tell you it's worth it are right when speaking about their own personal experience, but they can't speak for your personal experience.  And though you can't imagine how what they're saying about their personal experience is true, it doesn't mean it's not.

What you want isn't what society expects, so you'll get a lot of people sticking their nose in your business and offering unsolicited advice.  Figure out how you'll shut down those conversations so you'll spare yourself people trying to convince you/horror stories/feeling judged/others feeling judged by you.  Don't feel the need to exhaustively defend what you want.  It's your life, whatever your choice on this issue, it is valid and deserves respect.

[Noodle]

Just be where you are. All you owe your partner is to be honest about your feelings on the subject, and gracious if he comes to a point where he wants to end things and find a partner with a different perspective.  You don't owe anyone else anything.

Maybe you will change your mind someday. Maybe you won't. If at a later time you feel you want to have children in your life, there will be options ranging from biological to adoption to less formal arrangements like being a Big Sister.

I do suggest not giving people explanations (other than your partner, of course). The more you say, the more they have to pick apart. Be as vague and as brief as possible.

[Goldielocks]

If you are past your mid 20's, then I say that you know what you want. Kids excluded.

Nothing wrong with that.    When you want kids, you can't imagine growing older without them as a part of you, some are ambivalent until the right partner comes along or are surprised.

But when you know, to your bones, not much will change.


Live your dreams.

[NewJourney]

But everyone keeps telling me...it's worth it. All of it. And I'm just not ready and what I'm going through is normal as I'm still young. Everyone keeps telling me I'm experiencing normal emotions. They says its worth the havoc it has on your body, getting all torn up.

When I hear this...I'm like..you're crazy. All of you. Nothing is worth that. So I don't know who to call bu!?@&$? on.

Why does someone have to be full of BS?  Feelings are individual and they are all legitimate if applied to one's own life.  "That does/doesn't seem worth it for me" is right whenever someone says it. "That does/doesn't seem worth it for anyone" tries to impose the speaker's feelings and values on other people.  The people who tell you it's worth it are right when speaking about their own personal experience, but they can't speak for your personal experience.  And though you can't imagine how what they're saying about their personal experience is true, it doesn't mean it's not.

What you want isn't what society expects, so you'll get a lot of people sticking their nose in your business and offering unsolicited advice.  Figure out how you'll shut down those conversations so you'll spare yourself people trying to convince you/horror stories/feeling judged/others feeling judged by you.  Don't feel the need to exhaustively defend what you want.  It's your life, whatever your choice on this issue, it is valid and deserves respect.

What you said is really true....it's based on personal options and perception and how the individual feels.

I'm just in this huge dilemma. I've never met a man like mine. He takes care of me, he loves me so much, brings me flowers for no reason, etc. no one has ever made me feel so special before. 

I don't want to leave him, I feel like if almost just have them not not be with him. Then I think of what would happen if I had them and we separated....or how if the dog is causing me to much stress...how miserable would a kid be..

Then there are these videos of women having their babies and I take one look and I say to myself "I'd leave anyone before I did that"

I know people really can rip others apart with something that goes against society's expectations...I'm just really confused.

[charis]

You should absolutely not have children with someone because they make you feel special or you don't want to lose them. 
You should have children because you want them.  End of story.

[rubybeth]

But everyone keeps telling me...it's worth it. All of it. And I'm just not ready and what I'm going through is normal as I'm still young. Everyone keeps telling me I'm experiencing normal emotions. They says its worth the havoc it has on your body, getting all torn up.

When I hear this...I'm like..you're crazy. All of you. Nothing is worth that. So I don't know who to call bu!?@&$? on.

Why does someone have to be full of BS?  Feelings are individual and they are all legitimate if applied to one's own life.  "That does/doesn't seem worth it for me" is right whenever someone says it. "That does/doesn't seem worth it for anyone" tries to impose the speaker's feelings and values on other people.  The people who tell you it's worth it are right when speaking about their own personal experience, but they can't speak for your personal experience.  And though you can't imagine how what they're saying about their personal experience is true, it doesn't mean it's not.

What you want isn't what society expects, so you'll get a lot of people sticking their nose in your business and offering unsolicited advice.  Figure out how you'll shut down those conversations so you'll spare yourself people trying to convince you/horror stories/feeling judged/others feeling judged by you.  Don't feel the need to exhaustively defend what you want.  It's your life, whatever your choice on this issue, it is valid and deserves respect.

What you said is really true....it's based on personal options and perception and how the individual feels.

I'm just in this huge dilemma. I've never met a man like mine. He takes care of me, he loves me so much, brings me flowers for no reason, etc. no one has ever made me feel so special before. 

I don't want to leave him, I feel like if almost just have them not not be with him. Then I think of what would happen if I had them and we separated....or how if the dog is causing me to much stress...how miserable would a kid be..

Then there are these videos of women having their babies and I take one look and I say to myself "I'd leave anyone before I did that"

I know people really can rip others apart with something that goes against society's expectations...I'm just really confused.

I think what you're referring to is known as "the life script" within the childfree community. The typical "life script" is that we go to school, meet the spouse of our dreams, get married, and then have kids. Anything that deviates from this script when you've been told your whole life that it's normal and what's expected can cause stress. Honestly, to me, you don't sound that conflicted about having kids. You really don't want a child, and that's totally fine. Just because a few people aren't comfortable with that decision doesn't make it an invalid choice. It's totally your choice. And you don't need to give any reasons for your choice. With some folks, I've gone into more details about our decision, but otherwise, I just say, "Nope, no kids, no plans to have them" and many people just leave it alone. It's actually pretty rude to ask about anyone's reproductive decisions--I know so many couples who have struggled with infertility so I'm very sensitive to that. And I've alternately been surprised about who is "on my side"--like some family members.

The issue it sounds like you're really grappling with is losing your boyfriend over this. Guess what--if he wants kids and you don't, and that never changes, your relationship won't always be a bed of roses like it is right now. It will get worse in many ways, and you will be miserable if he tries to pressure you or guilt you, and it may become emotionally abusive. This is why you need to talk with him, maybe even in the context of couples therapy.

Also, you might want to join this community for more info./support: http://thechildfreelife.com/forum/