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Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: deek on April 24, 2018, 06:17:56 PM

Title: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: deek on April 24, 2018, 06:17:56 PM
Hey all, my SO of 5 and a half months just came down to my place for what I thought was a date night to dinner and a movie with friends. We sat down and chatted and she told me she was having doubts and really wasn't sure why. She's leaving for school about 4-5 hours away in August and she thinks maybe it had something to do with that. I understood when it was all said and done. But when she got more in depth about telling her mom and how her mom got really sad because she loved me, that started to tear me up. This caught me completely by surprise. She assured me that it was nothing I did or didn't do and she wanted to stay in touch if I thought that was okay.

I'm not really sure what to do. I would gladly be there for her if she needed me, but at the same time, I don't know if I can keep contact without it reminding me of our experiences together. Ughhhh. I was her first serious relationship (she's 22). Maybe she doesn't know what she wanted? Who knows, I told her I can't change the way she feels and I'm glad she was up front with me about it. During our talking she just gave this vibe that she absolutely hated what she was doing and she still wanted me. I'm so confused, but I need to get out of this to-be short-term rut as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: MrsWhipple on April 24, 2018, 06:28:58 PM
She's 22 and doesn't want to be tied down with an LDR, which is totally normal at her age. Sucks but it happens. You don't have to be her emotional support person if you don't want to and I wouldn't want to, because you know exactly how that will end - you will support her exactly up until the point she finds somebody else, and then you'll be out of her life. It'll suck worse for you. "Sorry, but I need some space" is a fine excuse, and she can find someone else to support her.

I imagine you're young too, and it wasn't a long relationship. Take a month or two if you need to sort yourself out and then move on to date other people. This is a good learning experience for both of you that will help you find more stable future relationships. Take it as a positive and don't stretch out the breakup by trying to "help her" because it will not help either of you move on. Block her on facebook, hit the gym, get busy with hobbies and friends, don't waste too much time wallowing in the rut if you can avoid it. Amicable breakups can be worse for you if you let them.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: deek on April 24, 2018, 10:25:21 PM
She's 22 and doesn't want to be tied down with an LDR, which is totally normal at her age. Sucks but it happens. You don't have to be her emotional support person if you don't want to and I wouldn't want to, because you know exactly how that will end - you will support her exactly up until the point she finds somebody else, and then you'll be out of her life. It'll suck worse for you. "Sorry, but I need some space" is a fine excuse, and she can find someone else to support her.

I imagine you're young too, and it wasn't a long relationship. Take a month or two if you need to sort yourself out and then move on to date other people. StupidThis is a good learning experience for both of you that will help you find more stable future relationships. Take it as a positive and don't stretch out the breakup by trying to "help her" because it will not help either of you move on. Block her on facebook, hit the gym, get busy with hobbies and friends, don't waste too much time wallowing in the rut if you can avoid it. Amicable breakups can be worse for you if you let them.

All valid points.. I'm 26. Just so many questions I don't have an answer to is the frustrating part. A week ago everything was dandy, I felt like we both have become more attracted to each other even recently. Just makes you want to crawl in a hole for a month.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: maizeman on April 24, 2018, 10:32:53 PM
The two relationships I still regret the end of both ended based on long distance issues. One ended before the long distance part started but after we knew there was going to be no way around years of long distance. The other struggled through about a year of long distance before things finally ended. Looking back on it, I like the way the first relationship ended more than the second (which finally ended with a "hey I've met someone else" e-mail.)

The fact that your own relationship ended doesn't mean your ex-girlfriend wasn't attracted to you or didn't care about you or that you did anything wrong. Just that human beings really aren't set up for long distance relationships. 
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: expatartist on April 24, 2018, 10:33:33 PM
She's 22 and doesn't want to be tied down with an LDR, which is totally normal at her age. Sucks but it happens. You don't have to be her emotional support person if you don't want to and I wouldn't want to, because you know exactly how that will end - you will support her exactly up until the point she finds somebody else, and then you'll be out of her life. It'll suck worse for you. "Sorry, but I need some space" is a fine excuse, and she can find someone else to support her.

+1

The "let's be friends" line leads to ambiguity, blurred boundaries, and an extension of the normal grieving process after a relationship has ended.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: deek on April 25, 2018, 03:21:42 AM
I'm optimistic that in the end this is for the best and I know at this point I wouldn't be comfortable prioritizing the long trips to her new place where the school is to visit her and I know she wouldn't be able to come this way much because of how dedicated she will be to school.

But jesus I had the most vivid dream about saying goodbye to her parents. It's a little ridiculous but I woke up for a split second thinking it was.just another dream and had to remind myself that "damn, it is actually over." I hope I can get this slate wiped clean and it becomes a lot easier to deal in the next several days after it has sunk in.

This is the part that sucks when you're a person that invests a lot in real connections with people.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: zoltani on April 25, 2018, 04:41:33 PM
This will be for the best. LDR isn't a relationship. You're young, there are 3.5 billion women on this planet, there will be many more that come along.

Don't be there "if she needs you". That gives her all the benefits of a relationship without any work. Go no-contact, it's for the best.

Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: 2Cent on April 26, 2018, 03:43:52 AM
Don't keep thinking that she might still love you. Just view it as an experience that you gained which is completely done now. If she's having doubts after just 5 months, she would probably have not lasted forever anyway. So you're spared the years of time lost and the pain of having a relationship go bad.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on April 26, 2018, 01:12:51 PM
Best advice I can give: No contact.

I just got out of a relationship the beginning of this year, and after some time giving each other space, we text semi-regularly and even hung out last weekend as friends. We dated for about 2.5 years and sometimes relationships that long can end messy, and the no contact rule would probably apply for longer, but I am in much better control of my emotions now than I was when I was younger.

Plus, its always easier when you are hitting the eject button. Not so much the other way around.

She will try and get the best of both worlds: use you as support and also to move on without you. Sticking through that will leave you emotionally drained. Don't fall for it. The best thing you can do for yourself is plow forward, blinders on, and don't look back.

Maybe some day you'll be friends or whatever who knows. However, if you have a new gf by then, well, women are territorial and you simply won't be allowed to have anything to do with her anyway.

The best revenge? Put yourself first and move on with your life.

And just go ahead and delete her from Facebook. We all get curious and there is no sense in leaving the door open for you to re-open a wound until you are over her.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: deek on April 26, 2018, 08:59:53 PM
I simply told her after the fact that I need space, and she responded and told me she would be around any time I wanted to reach out...  I did not reply and don't intend on reaching out. Baffles me how 2 weeks ago everything was normal and we were talking about summer plans.. oh how quickly things change.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on April 27, 2018, 07:42:47 AM
Yeah I wouldn't burn too many brain cells on this right now. You'll learn to understand women over time.  There is a reason there is a saying that 'Men are from Mars, women are from Venus'. Women do tend to be predictable though, even when emotional messes, even if you can't understand why at the time. It took me a long time to figure them out, and I just roll my eyes at the predictability now.  Like, should your current girlfriend find out that a shirt in your closet was bought by an ex, you might as well just throw the shirt in the garbage, even if you have no attachment to the ex anymore, or how nice the shirt is. Just the way it is, no sense in fighting it.

But, if its one thing I have certainly learned is that while men mourn the loss of a relationship after it ends, a lot of women will do it while in one, all the while not saying a word about it (although you'll realize later there were hints of the demise taking place that you didn't pick up on). That's a big reason why you see how quickly they are able to flip the switch and move on to another guy so quickly. Plus, generally they hate to be alone and all they have to do is bat their eyes and get another boyfriend pretty easily. In all likelihood she lost interest in the relationship further back than you realize. Sucks, but that's just the way it is. You are definitely doing the right thing telling her you want some space, and I would just ignore her for awhile too. There is no sense in lowering your standards to keep her in your life after she just told you she doesn't want you to be a part of hers. And you don't have to be mean about it. Just be as matter-of-fact about it as possible. Actually, you moving on will probably drive her nuts. But either way, you don't want her back after this. That 'if it was meant to be, set her free and she'll come back' whatever crap, is horseshit. All its really saying is that you are a douche with low standards. Don't be a douche with low standards.

I gather you are a lot younger than I am, so I will pass on some advice I wish I could go back in time and tell myself: (1) Live for yourself first (and that doesn't mean be selfish); (2) Don't give too much too early, make them prove they are worth it first (which if they ARE interested, they will love to prove they are); (3) women are typically in the driver's seat on how a relationship progresses, even if they don't realize it (so don't rush it); and (4) when things don't work out with one girl, its just freeing you up to try it things out with another.

Finally, people change. Sometimes its because of issues in the relationship, sometimes it has nothing to do with the relationship. That change may mean they feel they don't feel the same about the relationship. Sometimes these changes happen early on, sometimes after decades of marriage. If she didn't cheat on you, or stab you with a knife, then she probably isn't a bad person, but definitely not one you need to waste any more of your time on either. Chemistry is a powerful thing, and the loss of what you thought you had can be a powerful thing, however:

There are about 7 billion people on this planet. Over half are women. You are probably compatible with at least million of them. Go give some of them a try.

As my best friend's grandma used to say, "Pussy makes the world go around." It literally drives just about every decision men make. If there was no pussy, we'd probably be unemployed slobs watching football 24 hours a day. But thankfully there is, so we do everything we can to get the best of it we can, careers, cars, etc etc. Its all to impress them. Its no different than what happens in the animal kingdom. Its all just a game really, and most of the time a lot of it is out of your control. Some women will drool over you for doing nothing, others will want nothing to do with you no matter what you do. And the same applies to them. Don't take the grand scheme of it so personal or feel hopeless. There is someone out there for everyone. Just have to cut through the weeds to find them sometimes.

And go through a lot of trial and error too.

Best of luck! And keep your chin up.

MOD NOTE: The misogyny in this post is pretty terrible. Rather than delete it, we'll just note that we don't condone this, and count on the community to shun the behavior as well. Cheers!
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: ketchup on April 27, 2018, 08:06:25 AM
I told her I can't change the way she feels and I'm glad she was up front with me about it. During our talking she just gave this vibe that she absolutely hated what she was doing and she still wanted me. I'm so confused, but I need to get out of this to-be short-term rut as soon as possible.
She did it because she wanted to do it.  She felt bad about it because she's not an awful human being, and knew it would hurt but doesn't think you're an awful human being either.  She doesn't still want you.  I'm sure a lot of thought was put into what she did.

I went through something similar (though I was younger).  My perception of ambiguity was what made it hard.  It was clear what she wanted, but I was too stupid to see it.  It took her essentially telling me that point-blank an embarrassing amount of time later (more than a year) for me to truly snap out of it and move on.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: deek on April 27, 2018, 08:59:11 AM
I told her I can't change the way she feels and I'm glad she was up front with me about it. During our talking she just gave this vibe that she absolutely hated what she was doing and she still wanted me. I'm so confused, but I need to get out of this to-be short-term rut as soon as possible.
She did it because she wanted to do it.  She felt bad about it because she's not an awful human being, and knew it would hurt but doesn't think you're an awful human being either.  She doesn't still want you.  I'm sure a lot of thought was put into what she did.

I went through something similar (though I was younger).  My perception of ambiguity was what made it hard.  It was clear what she wanted, but I was too stupid to see it.  It took her essentially telling me that point-blank an embarrassing amount of time later (more than a year) for me to truly snap out of it and move on.

I think with time I will be more comfortable with the fact that her change of heart probably had more to do with the differences in our life situations rather than the absence of any personal connection. She is 3.5 years younger and still has a lot of decision making to do. Decision making that I have solidified for myself already. But I've already committed to just moving on so I'm happy about that. Just natural to figure out how to deal with the grief associated with it I suppose.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Poundwise on April 28, 2018, 06:23:42 PM
You're in one of those situations where you don't know each other well enough to make the decision to drop other things, such as school or a job, in order to follow/stay with the other.  You probably read her right: she may still care for you, but also knows it would be foolish to give up her schooling for somebody she doesn't actually know all that well.  She may be secretly hoping that you'll throw it all away and follow her... then she can have both her school and boyfriend.  But it would be equally foolish for you to drop the rest of your life on a gamble; and of course there is also the chance that she simply wants to break up with you and is using her move as an excuse.

If it's really tearing you up, if you don't have a particular attachment to where you are living, and she's moving to an area where you'd like to live one day, you could make the offer to move to be near her, with the understanding that if she is just breaking up with you because of a suboptimal fit, you'd rather know. Possibly putting this offer on the table (even to yourself without telling her) will make you realize that you don't really want to follow her... or that you do.  Also if you do decide to follow her, make sure that you have a very good plan B in case the relationship goes south.  Go because there are other appealing reasons to move as well.

However, I do agree with most posters here: if neither of you thinks the other person is quite worth the move, don't try a LDR, just move on.  It will be hard to learn much more important information about each other through the LDR. Just part on good terms, and maybe another time the stars will align.

I guess what I'm saying is that the ambiguity may not be due to game-playing or not wanting to hurt your feelings, but a real split in her feelings.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Sibley on April 29, 2018, 11:52:02 AM
Yeah I wouldn't burn too many brain cells on this right now. You'll learn to understand women over time.  There is a reason there is a saying that 'Men are from Mars, women are from Venus'. Women do tend to be predictable though, even when emotional messes, even if you can't understand why at the time. It took me a long time to figure them out, and I just roll my eyes at the predictability now.  Like, should your current girlfriend find out that a shirt in your closet was bought by an ex, you might as well just throw the shirt in the garbage, even if you have no attachment to the ex anymore, or how nice the shirt is. Just the way it is, no sense in fighting it.

But, if its one thing I have certainly learned is that while men mourn the loss of a relationship after it ends, a lot of women will do it while in one, all the while not saying a word about it (although you'll realize later there were hints of the demise taking place that you didn't pick up on). That's a big reason why you see how quickly they are able to flip the switch and move on to another guy so quickly. Plus, generally they hate to be alone and all they have to do is bat their eyes and get another boyfriend pretty easily. In all likelihood she lost interest in the relationship further back than you realize. Sucks, but that's just the way it is. You are definitely doing the right thing telling her you want some space, and I would just ignore her for awhile too. There is no sense in lowering your standards to keep her in your life after she just told you she doesn't want you to be a part of hers. And you don't have to be mean about it. Just be as matter-of-fact about it as possible. Actually, you moving on will probably drive her nuts. But either way, you don't want her back after this. That 'if it was meant to be, set her free and she'll come back' whatever crap, is horseshit. All its really saying is that you are a douche with low standards. Don't be a douche with low standards.
...

As a woman, I'm gonna burst your bubble here. No, you don't understand women, no one does. Just like no one can understand men. You can understand individuals, but not ALL women or ALL men. Overall, you're coming off as pretty sexist. Maybe think about it.

DJ - I'm sorry your GF broke up with you. However, to be realistic, she's 22 and moving away for college. The odds were drastically against your relationship surviving that kind of change and distance. Take care of yourself, spend time with friends/family doing things you enjoy. You will be ok, and you will meet someone else.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Letj on April 29, 2018, 12:40:11 PM
If you are both compatible and you think thereís a future together, try offering her to move with her. That would be the real test. Maybe sheís lost feelings for you, she was never committed in the first place but or she is really testing your love and commitment to her. She might be secretely hoping you offer to move with her or you would beg to continue the relationship.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Letj on April 29, 2018, 12:47:45 PM
Yeah I wouldn't burn too many brain cells on this right now. You'll learn to understand women over time.  There is a reason there is a saying that 'Men are from Mars, women are from Venus'. Women do tend to be predictable though, even when emotional messes, even if you can't understand why at the time. It took me a long time to figure them out, and I just roll my eyes at the predictability now.  Like, should your current girlfriend find out that a shirt in your closet was bought by an ex, you might as well just throw the shirt in the garbage, even if you have no attachment to the ex anymore, or how nice the shirt is. Just the way it is, no sense in fighting it.

But, if its one thing I have certainly learned is that while men mourn the loss of a relationship after it ends, a lot of women will do it while in one, all the while not saying a word about it (although you'll realize later there were hints of the demise taking place that you didn't pick up on). That's a big reason why you see how quickly they are able to flip the switch and move on to another guy so quickly. Plus, generally they hate to be alone and all they have to do is bat their eyes and get another boyfriend pretty easily. In all likelihood she lost interest in the relationship further back than you realize. Sucks, but that's just the way it is. You are definitely doing the right thing telling her you want some space, and I would just ignore her for awhile too. There is no sense in lowering your standards to keep her in your life after she just told you she doesn't want you to be a part of hers. And you don't have to be mean about it. Just be as matter-of-fact about it as possible. Actually, you moving on will probably drive her nuts. But either way, you don't want her back after this. That 'if it was meant to be, set her free and she'll come back' whatever crap, is horseshit. All its really saying is that you are a douche with low standards. Don't be a douche with low standards.

I gather you are a lot younger than I am, so I will pass on some advice I wish I could go back in time and tell myself: (1) Live for yourself first (and that doesn't mean be selfish); (2) Don't give too much too early, make them prove they are worth it first (which if they ARE interested, they will love to prove they are); (3) women are typically in the driver's seat on how a relationship progresses, even if they don't realize it (so don't rush it); and (4) when things don't work out with one girl, its just freeing you up to try it things out with another.

Finally, people change. Sometimes its because of issues in the relationship, sometimes it has nothing to do with the relationship. That change may mean they feel they don't feel the same about the relationship. Sometimes these changes happen early on, sometimes after decades of marriage. If she didn't cheat on you, or stab you with a knife, then she probably isn't a bad person, but definitely not one you need to waste any more of your time on either. Chemistry is a powerful thing, and the loss of what you thought you had can be a powerful thing, however:

There are about 7 billion people on this planet. Over half are women. You are probably compatible with at least million of them. Go give some of them a try.

As my best friend's grandma used to say, "Pussy makes the world go around." It literally drives just about every decision men make. If there was no pussy, we'd probably be unemployed slobs watching football 24 hours a day. But thankfully there is, so we do everything we can to get the best of it we can, careers, cars, etc etc. Its all to impress them. Its no different than what happens in the animal kingdom. Its all just a game really, and most of the time a lot of it is out of your control. Some women will drool over you for doing nothing, others will want nothing to do with you no matter what you do. And the same applies to them. Don't take the grand scheme of it so personal or feel hopeless. There is someone out there for everyone. Just have to cut through the weeds to find them sometimes.

And go through a lot of trial and error too.

Best of luck! And keep your chin up.

OMG. This is so chauvinist! Who hurt you so badly? Relationships and people are not all the same.  Thereís no one way to handle a break up. I broke with my husband twice while we were dating and he took me back gladly because I soon realized what I had and weíve been together for 31 years and happily married for 23. I was about the same age as the OPís girlfriend and I had just failed to see what I had.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: partgypsy on April 30, 2018, 12:44:49 PM
I know when I was in college and the year or so right afterwards, I felt too young to settle down. Honestly there was nothing wrong with my college sweetheart. I just wasn't ready to commit. So I don't recommend following her.

A couple years later, I was in a different emotional place and ready. It may not have much to do with you, just where she is at.
i'm sorry you are going through this. 

It's possible you may circle around, but I wouldn't count on it or wait around for that. continue to discover yourself and your life too.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: patchyfacialhair on April 30, 2018, 02:33:52 PM
I find that many people go through a bit of an identity crisis at various points. It usually coincides with some sort of arbitrary age or education benchmark, at which times things can go a bit wonky.

1) End of high school, around 18. Ready to conquer the world, and in general, live life without parental supervision. Some are more mature/ready for the change than others.

2) Age 21. You can legally drink alcohol, opening up your world to new social circles. Sometimes this has no impact.

3) End of college, around 22. You have to find a job, or go to grad school, which usually involves a move. Again, due to many factors, this could be very stressful or very easy.

4) Age 25. You've hit the point where you're not exactly brand new in the real world...some people are more successful than others, and you may or may not be comfortable in your own skin.

Age 30. You may be comparing yourself to other "adults", maybe still paying off student loans, or maybe you're comfortable with your life thus far, looking positive at the road ahead.

She's right there man, at step 3. Something doesn't feel right for her, thus her breaking up with you. It's probably not your fault. But, at the end of the day, work on yourself, and I wouldn't wait around. Distance is hard. I did it once, but we were married already, and we saw each other almost every weekend. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: deek on April 30, 2018, 04:01:36 PM
It's almost a week later, and in the time since, it's becoming a little easier each day to be content with what happened. I've tried to be a little empathetic to the situation, thinking about myself at age 22. No way I was ready for something long term, mostly because I wanted to experience something outside of my home state - albeit not further education, just another living situation and work experience. If I found a person I really liked back then, I may have been okay with a relationship as she was.. but reality would have hit just a little harder with time and I would still be wanting to live elsewhere for a little while. Ultimately, I did move to Oregon in early 2016 and got my fix of another part of the country.

At some point, I don't rule out getting back in touch with her, because there was that connection and that was an important 5 months of my life. But it will be because I care about how life is treating her more than trying to spark something up again.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: MrsWhipple on May 01, 2018, 06:34:41 PM

As a woman, I'm gonna burst your bubble here. No, you don't understand women, no one does. Just like no one can understand men. You can understand individuals, but not ALL women or ALL men. Overall, you're coming off as pretty sexist. Maybe think about it.
Yeah, Oh, women are so predictable once you learn to read their emotional messes - not a great way to treat 50% of the human population. That's some awfully sexist reasoning going on there and it seems like the poster is bitter from a few bad experiences. If my husband threw a perfectly good shirt away because it was a gift from an ex and he thought I wouldn't want it around, I'd be upset that he wasted a perfectly good shirt!
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: accolay on May 01, 2018, 08:06:13 PM
Sorry about the breakup. Do everything MrsWhipple said and follow the advice of no contact etc. It sucks now, but it will get better. Good luck.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 02, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
Wow I missed this until someone just sent me a message about it.

Quote
MOD NOTE: The misogyny in this post is pretty terrible. Rather than delete it, we'll just note that we don't condone this, and count on the community to shun the behavior as well. Cheers!

Wow I think misogyny is pretty harsh there. What exactly did I say that makes anyone think I hate women? Because I find many of their reactions predictable? Give me a break. That is ridiculous. I've been with more women than I care to admit. I can't imagine where I would be if I disliked them.

I find many of them predictable. And what I posted as advice isn't much different than a group of women talking at happy hour. When men aren't mostly around, women are far more brutal in judging guys on topics than most men will ever know, whether its about specific looks, the size of their wallet, the car they drive, the clothes they wear, their dick size, or whatever, all the while losing it if a guy mentions anything about a woman's weight gain. 'Oh I can't believe he just went there!' I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, don't think I am THAT arrogant to think I've met them all, but from one guy to another? I feel like I have been involved with enough to stand by what I said.

And men have a whole host of mostly predictable traits too. Let's count how many men pop in here and act offended over that.

And I am really not trying to offend anyone, but the world is a greedy place, and most of the time people act in their own self interest. Being as young as the OP is, he's probably got far more attachment to this girl than most older people in here would advise, after all, its not that 5 months is or isn't a long time to spend with someone (or decide if you should like), but probably not long enough to really know what someone is really like, or long enough to go through a rough time to see how supportive is or what the other is made of. So I say live for yourself first, and don't linger waiting on her for your happiness. If she doesn't want you around, for whatever reason, the best you can do for yourself is move on. Hey, if she actually does come back and the OP wants to give it a go, so be it, but I wouldn't play with his hopes on giving him any reason to wait.

BTW: as a man, some of the worst advice I have ever gotten about dealing with women in a relationship, has been from other women. Strange, but true. So I have removed the analyzing and emotions out of it and just focused on being a man. If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

You can decorate your advice with flowers and butterflies if you want. I am just telling him from one guy to the other. This is the same blunt way I talk to my friends and expect that they will talk to me.

Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: RetiredAt63 on May 02, 2018, 12:26:19 PM
When men aren't mostly around, women are far more brutal in judging guys on topics than most men will ever know, whether its about specific looks, the size of their wallet, the car they drive, the clothes they wear, their dick size, or whatever,

The women I hang out with must be very different from the women you know.   I can't remember any conversations like this, even when I was young (say 17-27).  In fact usually our conversations are interests, activities, or, when they were young, our children.  Boyfriends/husbands were off-limits as a discussion topic.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: patchyfacialhair on May 02, 2018, 12:42:08 PM
Wow I missed this until someone just sent me a message about it.

Quote
MOD NOTE: The misogyny in this post is pretty terrible. Rather than delete it, we'll just note that we don't condone this, and count on the community to shun the behavior as well. Cheers!

Wow I think misogyny is pretty harsh there. What exactly did I say that makes anyone think I hate women? Because I find many of their reactions predictable? Give me a break. That is ridiculous. I've been with more women than I care to admit. I can't imagine where I would be if I disliked them.

I find many of them predictable. And what I posted as advice isn't much different than a group of women talking at happy hour. When men aren't mostly around, women are far more brutal in judging guys on topics than most men will ever know, whether its about specific looks, the size of their wallet, the car they drive, the clothes they wear, their dick size, or whatever, all the while losing it if a guy mentions anything about a woman's weight gain. 'Oh I can't believe he just went there!' I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, don't think I am THAT arrogant to think I've met them all, but from one guy to another? I feel like I have been involved with enough to stand by what I said.

And men have a whole host of mostly predictable traits too. Let's count how many men pop in here and act offended over that.

And I am really not trying to offend anyone, but the world is a greedy place, and most of the time people act in their own self interest. Being as young as the OP is, he's probably got far more attachment to this girl than most older people in here would advise, after all, its not that 5 months is or isn't a long time to spend with someone (or decide if you should like), but probably not long enough to really know what someone is really like, or long enough to go through a rough time to see how supportive is or what the other is made of. So I say live for yourself first, and don't linger waiting on her for your happiness. If she doesn't want you around, for whatever reason, the best you can do for yourself is move on. Hey, if she actually does come back and the OP wants to give it a go, so be it, but I wouldn't play with his hopes on giving him any reason to wait.

BTW: as a man, some of the worst advice I have ever gotten about dealing with women in a relationship, has been from other women. Strange, but true. So I have removed the analyzing and emotions out of it and just focused on being a man. If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

You can decorate your advice with flowers and butterflies if you want. I am just telling him from one guy to the other. This is the same blunt way I talk to my friends and expect that they will talk to me.

It's 2018 man...you know you're not allowed to stereotype anymore, unless it fits a certain agenda.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 02, 2018, 12:47:55 PM
It's 2018 man...you know you're not allowed to stereotype anymore, unless it fits a certain agenda.

I've given thought to trying to only post positive and extremely PC posts everywhere I go... I just can't do it.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: joonifloofeefloo on May 02, 2018, 12:49:20 PM
...what I posted as advice isn't much different than a group of women talking at happy hour.

Misandry also takes place a lot, yes (including on this forum), and like misogyny, sexism, other generalizations, when it's noticed it's called out.

We try to keep the forum free from all forms of stereotyping.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 02, 2018, 12:54:28 PM
We should probably stop identifying each other as male or female as well. Just form one massive asexual blob. But then again, that blob would probably offend other blobs.

Want to spend a few minutes being critical of men? I can handle it. I might fit some of the profile, and some of it I wont. I won't get offended either way. I'll probably laugh at some of the things people might assume.

But some of it could very well be dead on.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: PoutineLover on May 02, 2018, 01:12:06 PM
Relationships end for so many reasons, and a 5 month relationship ending because of life circumstances is pretty normal, even if it sucks at the moment. Great time to focus on yourself and your interests. Try not to keep the door open, unless you really think there's a future together, because on/off and long distance are usually not worth the effort and heartache. I broke up with my ex when I was 23 because I realized that we were heading in different directions and not good matches for each other. Nothing against him, it just wasn't the relationship I wanted and that happens. Sounds like you are handling it pretty well.

Re: the misogyny stuff, generalizing all women or all men is what's wrong. It's impossible to say women this or men that, everyone has different motivations and experiences, and what applies to one person will not apply to all others.
"Like, should your current girlfriend find out that a shirt in your closet was bought by an ex, you might as well just throw the shirt in the garbage, even if you have no attachment to the ex anymore, or how nice the shirt is. Just the way it is, no sense in fighting it."
This sounds like it applied to one particular case one time. You can't say all women would react the same way to that shirt, but by framing it as "just the way it is" indicates that you stereotype by gender, without actual foundation for your statements.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: joonifloofeefloo on May 02, 2018, 01:17:52 PM
OP, sure hope you're feeling a little better and clearer with the passing days.

Breakups can be hard :(
...and definitely confusing, leaving questions that can last forever.
And definitely a person doing the breakup can give signs of ambivalence, continued feelings, etc. We have to believe their words and their actions, and do just what you did: accept those and move on.

I told her I can't change the way she feels and I'm glad she was up front with me about it.

Awesome!!! Super classy. That's really the best a person can do.

I've also become a big fan of no contact (for a good six months or more) after a break up. Just allows most of us to move on, get as healthy as possible faster, etc.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: JLee on May 02, 2018, 01:34:36 PM
Wow I missed this until someone just sent me a message about it.

Quote
MOD NOTE: The misogyny in this post is pretty terrible. Rather than delete it, we'll just note that we don't condone this, and count on the community to shun the behavior as well. Cheers!

Wow I think misogyny is pretty harsh there. What exactly did I say that makes anyone think I hate women? Because I find many of their reactions predictable? Give me a break. That is ridiculous. I've been with more women than I care to admit. I can't imagine where I would be if I disliked them.

I find many of them predictable. And what I posted as advice isn't much different than a group of women talking at happy hour. When men aren't mostly around, women are far more brutal in judging guys on topics than most men will ever know, whether its about specific looks, the size of their wallet, the car they drive, the clothes they wear, their dick size, or whatever, all the while losing it if a guy mentions anything about a woman's weight gain. 'Oh I can't believe he just went there!' I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, don't think I am THAT arrogant to think I've met them all, but from one guy to another? I feel like I have been involved with enough to stand by what I said.

And men have a whole host of mostly predictable traits too. Let's count how many men pop in here and act offended over that.

And I am really not trying to offend anyone, but the world is a greedy place, and most of the time people act in their own self interest. Being as young as the OP is, he's probably got far more attachment to this girl than most older people in here would advise, after all, its not that 5 months is or isn't a long time to spend with someone (or decide if you should like), but probably not long enough to really know what someone is really like, or long enough to go through a rough time to see how supportive is or what the other is made of. So I say live for yourself first, and don't linger waiting on her for your happiness. If she doesn't want you around, for whatever reason, the best you can do for yourself is move on. Hey, if she actually does come back and the OP wants to give it a go, so be it, but I wouldn't play with his hopes on giving him any reason to wait.

BTW: as a man, some of the worst advice I have ever gotten about dealing with women in a relationship, has been from other women. Strange, but true. So I have removed the analyzing and emotions out of it and just focused on being a man. If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

You can decorate your advice with flowers and butterflies if you want. I am just telling him from one guy to the other. This is the same blunt way I talk to my friends and expect that they will talk to me.

Really?  "Ingrained prejudice against women" seems spot on.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Hirondelle on May 02, 2018, 01:39:28 PM
When men aren't mostly around, women are far more brutal in judging guys on topics than most men will ever know, whether its about specific looks, the size of their wallet, the car they drive, the clothes they wear, their dick size, or whatever,

The women I hang out with must be very different from the women you know.   I can't remember any conversations like this, even when I was young (say 17-27).  In fact usually our conversations are interests, activities, or, when they were young, our children.  Boyfriends/husbands were off-limits as a discussion topic.

This. I've never discussed any of those things. Yes, my friends and I jokingly discuss guy's looks, but more in the sense of "He looks like dating material for you! Blonde, tall, [whatever she usually falls for]" - is that brutal judging?!

I don't think you meant it as badly as it sounds, but to someone reading your post it sounds pretty aggressive/anti-women and very, very judgemental. I basically read it as "Oh I've figured it all out and all women are like THIS", while you probably meant "I've dated many women and most turned out to be like this".

Seems like you've got a very particular taste of women and it might be good to move around in some other social circles to meet some nicer ones.


DJ; I'm sorry for your breakup. It seems like you've already made the first steps to get over it. The first weeks are the hardest, after you'll just have occasional moments of grief. Even a 5 month relationship can feel like forever if the click was good to you. Don't forget that it CAN be really hard for the other person to break up too. Honestly, breaking up has been the hardest to me as I know I'm gonna hurt someone that I still do love (but not enough to stay in relationship with/to see a long-term future). There can be a million reasons behind her breaking up, her moving away from you certainly being one of them. Hope you'll feel better soon!
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: zoltani on May 02, 2018, 03:34:26 PM
I don't like stereotyping and for a long time I expected women to think and communicate like men. That's probably more misogynist than realizing that men and women communicate differently. Once you understand that women communicate more with emotions then you can understand their communication style better. I think that is what KTG is getting at, though a little less tactful perhaps. Overall his advice is pretty good, live for yourself, find your mission, and allow a woman to prove herself to you. What is wrong with that?

The forums are free of stereotyping? That is laughable. That is certainly not the case when stereotyping people that live in suburbs, or trump voters, or homeschooling, or religion, or republicans, or any other thing that goes slightly against the mainstream thought of the forums. I think you meant we try and only have acceptable stereotypes on the forum.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: joonifloofeefloo on May 02, 2018, 03:46:55 PM
...live for yourself, find your mission, and allow a woman to prove herself to you. What is wrong with that?

Nothing. If he'd said that, we'd probably all be cheering his post!

The forums are free of stereotyping? That is laughable. That is certainly not the case when stereotyping people that live in suburbs, or trump voters, or homeschooling, or religion, or republicans, or any other thing that goes slightly against the mainstream thought of the forums. I think you meant we try and only have acceptable stereotypes on the forum.

Are you referring to what I said? Because I think I was the person that said the closest thing to that, yet not that at all.

I said there is stereotyping including a lot of misandry, the forum (not all individual posters) aims to be free of it, and a bunch of us call out any form we see (including all those excellent examples you gave).

I agree that all the ones you listed likewise suck, all for the same reasons. I think I've called out every one of those (not every instance, just the ones I've seen) as well as countless counts of misandry (which has cleaned up quite a bit in the last couple of years).
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: partgypsy on May 02, 2018, 04:52:29 PM
If I was going to make some generalizations between men and women, I don't think women are more emotional than men. I do feel that women in general are more in touch with their emotions, open to expressing emotions, and able to communicate and verbally articulate their emotions, while men are not as good as verbally processing their emotions and communicating them and may supress stuff. But to say that men somehow are devoid of an emotional landscape, is not accurate. 

What is interesting, is the way mysogenist guys talk about women, it cuts both ways. They are both "too emotional" but then they are also described as calculating creatures who are entirely pragmatic, preying and jumping from one man to the next based on things like attractiveness or how much money they have, with little or no emotions involved. I mean, which one is it?
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: zoltani on May 02, 2018, 04:58:37 PM
...live for yourself, find your mission, and allow a woman to prove herself to you. What is wrong with that?

Nothing. If he'd said that, we'd probably all be cheering his post!

I gather you are a lot younger than I am, so I will pass on some advice I wish I could go back in time and tell myself: (1) Live for yourself first (and that doesn't mean be selfish); (2) Don't give too much too early, make them prove they are worth it first (which if they ARE interested, they will love to prove they are); (3) women are typically in the driver's seat on how a relationship progresses, even if they don't realize it (so don't rush it); and (4) when things don't work out with one girl, its just freeing you up to try it things out with another.

Cheer away!


Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: joonifloofeefloo on May 02, 2018, 09:25:33 PM
If he'd said *only* that, zoltani :) 
(or some additional great things too!)
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: 2Cent on May 03, 2018, 02:53:35 AM
....
Seems like you've got a very particular taste of women and it might be good to move around in some other social circles to meet some nicer ones.
This. The generalization he mentions I see in a certain type of woman. But the same behavior is there in certain groups of men, so it doesn't really follow gender. It's just a subculture of a certain group that he tends to move in. I worked with some construction workers a while back and lets just say the topic where a lot more explicit and less PC than what is discussed in the office. In fact, KTS's way of talking would be considered normal polite conversation in that circle, and probably for his circle this would be true as long as "woman" is taken as the woman in the circle he is in and not all woman in all the world.

I really like the Mod's response. Instead of shutting down the conversation it is engaged and allowed to be talked out. Especially since the main question on this thread was already answered.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: GOFU on May 05, 2018, 01:16:48 PM
To the OP: You really need to learn to not give a shit. She thinks you are not enough, not good enough? Fine. She wants to bang 20 or 50 more strange dudes and rack up student debt on a useless master's degree before trying to get some pussified beta male to agree to legitimize her and pay her bills? Fine. Just don't be that fool. Cut off all communication. Don't take her calls, don't respond to her texts and emails, and don't waste 5 more minutes of your life thinking about her.

Get your ass in the weight room. Go to poker night. Climb a mountain or trek a continent. Build your body, your mind, your fortune and your future and let her regret that tedious, insipid, trite conversation for the rest of her life. Go to Return of Kings dot com and learn some stuff.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: MonkeyJenga on May 05, 2018, 01:49:00 PM
dj, you seem to be handling this breakup well, and with a generous understanding of where she's coming from. I'm not worried that you will fall into the sexism some people find in online groups based around twisted views of women. Your way of peacefully moving on seems much healthier, so good for you.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Dabnasty on May 05, 2018, 04:52:12 PM
To the OP: You really need to learn to not give a shit. She thinks you are not enough, not good enough? Fine. She wants to bang 20 or 50 more strange dudes and rack up student debt on a useless master's degree before trying to get some pussified beta male to agree to legitimize her and pay her bills? Fine. Just don't be that fool. Cut off all communication. Don't take her calls, don't respond to her texts and emails, and don't waste 5 more minutes of your life thinking about her.

Get your ass in the weight room. Go to poker night. Climb a mountain or trek a continent. Build your body, your mind, your fortune and your future and let her regret that tedious, insipid, trite conversation for the rest of her life. Go to Return of Kings dot com and learn some stuff.

Not cool man. If your view of women is at all based on that website, you need to stop giving advice and ask for some. This forum might not be a bad place to start.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Fireball on May 05, 2018, 07:16:06 PM
To the OP: You really need to learn to not give a shit. She thinks you are not enough, not good enough? Fine. She wants to bang 20 or 50 more strange dudes and rack up student debt on a useless master's degree before trying to get some pussified beta male to agree to legitimize her and pay her bills? Fine. Just don't be that fool. Cut off all communication. Don't take her calls, don't respond to her texts and emails, and don't waste 5 more minutes of your life thinking about her.

Get your ass in the weight room. Go to poker night. Climb a mountain or trek a continent. Build your body, your mind, your fortune and your future and let her regret that tedious, insipid, trite conversation for the rest of her life. Go to Return of Kings dot com and learn some stuff.

Given that 1/2 this thread was devoted to thrashing KTG's post, I couldn't help but laugh at this. lol
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Kris on May 06, 2018, 06:28:53 AM
To the OP: You really need to learn to not give a shit. She thinks you are not enough, not good enough? Fine. She wants to bang 20 or 50 more strange dudes and rack up student debt on a useless master's degree before trying to get some pussified beta male to agree to legitimize her and pay her bills? Fine. Just don't be that fool. Cut off all communication. Don't take her calls, don't respond to her texts and emails, and don't waste 5 more minutes of your life thinking about her.

Get your ass in the weight room. Go to poker night. Climb a mountain or trek a continent. Build your body, your mind, your fortune and your future and let her regret that tedious, insipid, trite conversation for the rest of her life. Go to Return of Kings dot com and learn some stuff.

Good lord. Well, OP, at least you have a great example of how not to react. Sexism and frustrated anger is just a feedback loop that will make your next relationships even harder as you calcify into a bitter, frustrated old dude who spends his time hanging out with other bitter old dudes, bitching about how women suck and fantasizing about a time when they will be treated like kings even though they act like pathetic pubescent children.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Polaria on May 06, 2018, 07:40:43 AM
Frankly at this stage I am not quite sure what's sarcastic or not in this thread. Apparently I am also one of those women who are not supposed to exist in some peeps' world...

Anyway, relationships get to spiral into complexity very easily. I would agree on the "don't overthink this too much". Many questions in life are not meant to be answered, and questions about motives of exes on breaking up tend to fall into that category.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: GOFU on May 06, 2018, 10:26:56 AM
To the OP: You really need to learn to not give a shit. She thinks you are not enough, not good enough? Fine. She wants to bang 20 or 50 more strange dudes and rack up student debt on a useless master's degree before trying to get some pussified beta male to agree to legitimize her and pay her bills? Fine. Just don't be that fool. Cut off all communication. Don't take her calls, don't respond to her texts and emails, and don't waste 5 more minutes of your life thinking about her.

Get your ass in the weight room. Go to poker night. Climb a mountain or trek a continent. Build your body, your mind, your fortune and your future and let her regret that tedious, insipid, trite conversation for the rest of her life. Go to Return of Kings dot com and learn some stuff.

Good lord. Well, OP, at least you have a great example of how not to react. Sexism and frustrated anger is just a feedback loop that will make your next relationships even harder as you calcify into a bitter, frustrated old dude who spends his time hanging out with other bitter old dudes, bitching about how women suck and fantasizing about a time when they will be treated like kings even though they act like pathetic pubescent children.

How does anyone get this from what I wrote?

I specifically recommended to the OP that he learn to not give a shit, with the further simple suggestion to do some things to improve himself. Indifference is 180 degrees from anger, frustration, or bitching. Self-improvement and mission-mindedness are in diametric opposition to bitter calcification and fantasy. Nothing sexist about it.

I suggested cutting off all communication to prevent the emotionally poisonous and distracting drip, drip, drip of hanging on. Something the OP said he had already decided, by the way. Perfectly reasonable and usually the recommended course for anyone after getting dumped.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Hirondelle on May 06, 2018, 10:31:29 AM
To the OP: You really need to learn to not give a shit. She thinks you are not enough, not good enough? Fine. She wants to bang 20 or 50 more strange dudes and rack up student debt on a useless master's degree before trying to get some pussified beta male to agree to legitimize her and pay her bills? Fine. Just don't be that fool. Cut off all communication. Don't take her calls, don't respond to her texts and emails, and don't waste 5 more minutes of your life thinking about her.

Get your ass in the weight room. Go to poker night. Climb a mountain or trek a continent. Build your body, your mind, your fortune and your future and let her regret that tedious, insipid, trite conversation for the rest of her life. Go to Return of Kings dot com and learn some stuff.

Good lord. Well, OP, at least you have a great example of how not to react. Sexism and frustrated anger is just a feedback loop that will make your next relationships even harder as you calcify into a bitter, frustrated old dude who spends his time hanging out with other bitter old dudes, bitching about how women suck and fantasizing about a time when they will be treated like kings even though they act like pathetic pubescent children.

How does anyone get this from what I wrote?

I specifically recommended to the OP that he learn to not give a shit, with the further simple suggestion to do some things to improve himself. Indifference is 180 degrees from anger, frustration, or bitching. Self-improvement and mission-mindedness are in diametric opposition to bitter calcification and fantasy. Nothing sexist about it.

I suggested cutting off all communication to prevent the emotionally poisonous and distracting drip, drip, drip of hanging on. Something the OP said he had already decided, by the way. Perfectly reasonable and usually the recommended course for anyone after getting dumped.

I think the bolded part was probably the thing people took offense off. You basically told him she's a slut that just wants a man to pay bills for her, he's a pussy that should get more manly by doing poker nights and weight lifting and she'll be regretting missing out on this wonderful alpha male.

If you'd just say the things from your 2nd post, nobody would mind.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: MrsWhipple on May 06, 2018, 10:46:13 AM
How does anyone get this from what I wrote?
"Everybody thinks I'm a sexist asshole. Wow, it's crazy how everybody is so wrong about me, huh!?"
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 07, 2018, 08:04:45 AM
To the OP: You really need to learn to not give a shit. She thinks you are not enough, not good enough? Fine. She wants to bang 20 or 50 more strange dudes and rack up student debt on a useless master's degree before trying to get some pussified beta male to agree to legitimize her and pay her bills? Fine. Just don't be that fool. Cut off all communication. Don't take her calls, don't respond to her texts and emails, and don't waste 5 more minutes of your life thinking about her.

Get your ass in the weight room. Go to poker night. Climb a mountain or trek a continent. Build your body, your mind, your fortune and your future and let her regret that tedious, insipid, trite conversation for the rest of her life. Go to Return of Kings dot com and learn some stuff.

Given that 1/2 this thread was devoted to thrashing KTG's post, I couldn't help but laugh at this. lol

Yeah, who the hell does GOFU think he is for trying to upstage me?!?!

I have no idea what that website is, but I agree with all the other advice he is giving. It is exactly what I have learned that I need to hear if I am spending too much time depressed over a chic. Uh oh, I just said chic. 

Quote from: GOFU
It's just a subculture of a certain group that he tends to move in.

HOW DARE YOU STEREOTYPE ME!!!

Haha just kidding. You pretty much nailed it on the head. Forgot I was hanging out with more civilized people in here.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Kris on May 07, 2018, 08:43:57 AM
To the OP: You really need to learn to not give a shit. She thinks you are not enough, not good enough? Fine. She wants to bang 20 or 50 more strange dudes and rack up student debt on a useless master's degree before trying to get some pussified beta male to agree to legitimize her and pay her bills? Fine. Just don't be that fool. Cut off all communication. Don't take her calls, don't respond to her texts and emails, and don't waste 5 more minutes of your life thinking about her.

Get your ass in the weight room. Go to poker night. Climb a mountain or trek a continent. Build your body, your mind, your fortune and your future and let her regret that tedious, insipid, trite conversation for the rest of her life. Go to Return of Kings dot com and learn some stuff.

Good lord. Well, OP, at least you have a great example of how not to react. Sexism and frustrated anger is just a feedback loop that will make your next relationships even harder as you calcify into a bitter, frustrated old dude who spends his time hanging out with other bitter old dudes, bitching about how women suck and fantasizing about a time when they will be treated like kings even though they act like pathetic pubescent children.

How does anyone get this from what I wrote?

I specifically recommended to the OP that he learn to not give a shit, with the further simple suggestion to do some things to improve himself. Indifference is 180 degrees from anger, frustration, or bitching. Self-improvement and mission-mindedness are in diametric opposition to bitter calcification and fantasy. Nothing sexist about it.

I suggested cutting off all communication to prevent the emotionally poisonous and distracting drip, drip, drip of hanging on. Something the OP said he had already decided, by the way. Perfectly reasonable and usually the recommended course for anyone after getting dumped.

I think the bolded part was probably the thing people took offense off. You basically told him she's a slut that just wants a man to pay bills for her, he's a pussy that should get more manly by doing poker nights and weight lifting and she'll be regretting missing out on this wonderful alpha male.

If you'd just say the things from your 2nd post, nobody would mind.

Yeah, well that, and also the f***ing shitshow of a website he mentioned as a place to (lol) "learn" some things.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: NorthernBlitz on May 07, 2018, 09:00:09 AM
DJ

That really sucks man. Sounds like you found a "right person" at the "wrong time".

I felt that way about my high school gf. We broke up before going to University because we were going to different schools. If it was 50 years ago and people stayed in the same village, I think we would have ended up together.

The good news is that in a few years I found another person that I fit better with. I wouldn't trade the life we have for anything.

I trust that the same will happen to you in time...even if it doesn't feel that way now. Your future self will probably look back fondly on the relationship and remember that it probably helped you grow into a better partner.

Because you're on this site, that future you will probably be looking back on this relationship from a beach or homestead somewhere surrounded with people you love that you'll have significant time that you can spend with them. Things might suck now, but they'll get better.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Flynlow on May 07, 2018, 10:57:23 AM
Sorry to hear, but 26 is an awesome age to be single!  Go watch the 2nd Austin powers movie intro when his wife turns out to be a robot if you ever need some irreverent cheering up about being single. 

I would ignore GOFUís post, seems like projecting his personal situation rather than trying to help you with yours.  KTGís made me laugh, especially about the shirt thing.  Iíve had that happen.

I try to focus on the positives, which for me usually means recommitting to my hobbies.  I like rock climbing and running.  Well, actually I hate running, but it works better than anything else Iíve found for dealing with stress (usually from work, though it works for relationship stress too).  I run until I get tired, usually takes me about 3 miles to burn off my stress and quiet my mental doubts. Find a good state park or trail rather than a gym or treadmill.  As a side benefit, hobbies are a great way to meet people in a casual setting and see if things click. 
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: NorthernBlitz on May 08, 2018, 08:24:56 AM
Re: Stress.

I've recently been trying to do 30 minutes in a sauna 5 times / week followed by a cold shower.

There's a bunch of evidence that it's good for your body and your brain. It feels good too.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: deek on May 09, 2018, 11:16:30 AM
Sorry to hear, but 26 is an awesome age to be single!  Go watch the 2nd Austin powers movie intro when his wife turns out to be a robot if you ever need some irreverent cheering up about being single. 

I would ignore GOFUís post, seems like projecting his personal situation rather than trying to help you with yours.  KTGís made me laugh, especially about the shirt thing.  Iíve had that happen.

I try to focus on the positives, which for me usually means recommitting to my hobbies.  I like rock climbing and running.  Well, actually I hate running, but it works better than anything else Iíve found for dealing with stress (usually from work, though it works for relationship stress too).  I run until I get tired, usually takes me about 3 miles to burn off my stress and quiet my mental doubts. Find a good state park or trail rather than a gym or treadmill.  As a side benefit, hobbies are a great way to meet people in a casual setting and see if things click.

A lot like how I'm currently handling the stress. I'm much better than I was 2 weeks ago when this first came about. I'm back in a gym routine already, to the point where I feel real disappointed if I don't make it 4 days a week... I went at 8:45 last night, so glad I did. I go fishing a lot and played my first round of golf on Friday. Things are going well.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: partgypsy on May 09, 2018, 11:38:56 AM
You are young. Enjoy it (within reason ; )
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: wenchsenior on May 09, 2018, 12:46:46 PM

As a woman, I'm gonna burst your bubble here. No, you don't understand women, no one does. Just like no one can understand men. You can understand individuals, but not ALL women or ALL men. Overall, you're coming off as pretty sexist. Maybe think about it.
Yeah, Oh, women are so predictable once you learn to read their emotional messes - not a great way to treat 50% of the human population. That's some awfully sexist reasoning going on there and it seems like the poster is bitter from a few bad experiences. If my husband threw a perfectly good shirt away because it was a gift from an ex and he thought I wouldn't want it around, I'd be upset that he wasted a perfectly good shirt!

LOL. Yeah, there's a lot of silliness in that post.  There's a shirt in my collection right now that I personally wear that was a gift to DH from his ex, back in the late 1980s.  That's a good shirt! (He'd still be wearing it, but he bulked up a lot the decade after I met him). 
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: DarkandStormy on May 10, 2018, 07:40:50 AM
If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

Your posts suggest you are sexist and a misogynist.  Full stop.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 10, 2018, 07:53:12 AM
If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

Your posts suggest you are sexist and a misogynist.  Full stop.

You posts suggests you are ignorant. Full stop.

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There's a shirt in my collection right now that I personally wear that was a gift to DH from his ex, back in the late 1980s.  That's a good shirt! (He'd still be wearing it, but he bulked up a lot the decade after I met him).

Yeah I hear that is the thing to do now! I asked my friends about it and they asked their significant others if it was okay to keep their shirts, and they said it was all okay! Then I mentioned the trend to my neighbor and he says his wife is totally down for it too! Then our other neighbor overheard our convo and said his wife only allows him to wear shirts given to him by his exes! The mail woman pulled up, and we asked her, and she confirmed all was good with her boyfriend not only wearing the shirts his ex gave him, but also the girl he cheated on her with! Then a cop pulled up, we asked him what he thought, and he said the t-shirt he was wearing right then was bought by two exes at the same time, and his wife thought it was his best shirt ever!

Then I woke up.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: wenchsenior on May 10, 2018, 08:35:24 AM
If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

Your posts suggest you are sexist and a misogynist.  Full stop.

You posts suggests you are ignorant. Full stop.

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There's a shirt in my collection right now that I personally wear that was a gift to DH from his ex, back in the late 1980s.  That's a good shirt! (He'd still be wearing it, but he bulked up a lot the decade after I met him).

Yeah I hear that is the thing to do now! I asked my friends about it and they asked their significant others if it was okay to keep their shirts, and they said it was all okay! Then I mentioned the trend to my neighbor and he says his wife is totally down for it too! Then our other neighbor overheard our convo and said his wife only allows him to wear shirts given to him by his exes! The mail woman pulled up, and we asked her, and she confirmed all was good with her boyfriend not only wearing the shirts his ex gave him, but also the girl he cheated on her with! Then a cop pulled up, we asked him what he thought, and he said the t-shirt he was wearing right then was bought by two exes at the same time, and his wife thought it was his best shirt ever!

Then I woke up.

I'm not sure what you are on about.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: haflander on May 10, 2018, 08:48:12 AM
wench it's pretty simple... KTG is mad because his worldview is being challenged by multiple users, so he's lashing out with sarcasm. Even a moderator rebuked him. If that's not a signal that something is fundamentally and objectively wrong and offensive (misogyny in this case), then Idk what is.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: DarkandStormy on May 10, 2018, 12:17:05 PM
If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

Your posts suggest you are sexist and a misogynist.  Full stop.

You posts suggests you are ignorant. Full stop.

Ah, ok.

There is a reason there is a saying that 'Men are from Mars, women are from Venus'.

This is sexist.

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It took me a long time to figure them out, and I just roll my eyes at the predictability now.

This is chauvinist and sexist.

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But, if its one thing I have certainly learned is that while men mourn the loss of a relationship after it ends, a lot of women will do it while in one, all the while not saying a word about it (although you'll realize later there were hints of the demise taking place that you didn't pick up on). That's a big reason why you see how quickly they are able to flip the switch and move on to another guy so quickly.

This is stereotyping based on your personal experiences which you then equate to all women everywhere.  And it's sexist.

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Plus, generally they hate to be alone and all they have to do is bat their eyes and get another boyfriend pretty easily.

Another sexist point not based in reality.

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Actually, you moving on will probably drive her nuts.

You don't know these people.  Wtf?

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All its really saying is that you are a douche with low standards. Don't be a douche with low standards.

Way too insult people you don't know.

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Don't give too much too early, make them prove they are worth it first

This is sexist.  Why don't men have to "prove they are worth it first" to women?  Only a sexist person views relationships so one-sided.

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women are typically in the driver's seat on how a relationship progresses

Your experience does not equal reality for every relationship.

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As my best friend's grandma used to say, "Pussy makes the world go around."

Can we get more misogynistic?  Good grief.

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But thankfully there is, so we do everything we can to get the best of it we can, careers, cars, etc etc. Its all to impress them.

You are referring to a woman's vagina as "it."  And shockingly, men do not act solely for the reason you state.  That is your experience alone and you again are trying to state it as if it's a fact for men everywhere.

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I can't imagine where I would be if I disliked them.

You don't even understand the term "sexist" apparently.

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I find many of them predictable. And what I posted as advice isn't much different than a group of women talking at happy hour. When men aren't mostly around, women are far more brutal in judging guys on topics than most men will ever know

How would you know what women talk about when they're alone?  Seems like you can't "predict" that, buddy.

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I feel like I have been involved with enough to stand by what I said

You've "been involved with enough" women to roll out these stereotypes of the entire gender as mostly fact?  Give me a break.

You clearly do not see women as equal to you, given that they have to prove themselves to you/men.  That is textbook sexism and misogyny.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 10, 2018, 01:44:28 PM
KTG is mad because his worldview is being challenged by multiple users, so he's lashing out with sarcasm. Even a moderator rebuked him. If that's not a signal that something is fundamentally and objectively wrong and offensive (misogyny in this case), then Idk what is.

Mad because my worldview is being challenged? Lol come on, do I sound like I am worried about my would view being challenged? At this point I am in it for the comedy.

@DarkandStormy before we continue, lets agree on what 'misogyny' actually is. Making it as easy as possible, google defines it as "dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women." (https://www.google.com/search?q=misogyny+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b). If you want to use another definition let me know.

This is sexist.

So is saying women make better mothers then men do, and men make better dads than women do. So what? If you want to get on your high PC 2018 horse so be it, but just because I say we are different doesn't mean I think of them less or they are worse than men. Quit making this out to me more than it is. There are many things women generally do better than men, and there are things men generally do better than women. That's just historic fact.

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It took me a long time to figure them out, and I just roll my eyes at the predictability now.

This is chauvinist and sexist.

If you said over-confident, I would certainly agree with you. Chauvinist? Maybe. Sexist? Really reaching here.

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But, if its one thing I have certainly learned is that while men mourn the loss of a relationship after it ends, a lot of women will do it while in one, all the while not saying a word about it (although you'll realize later there were hints of the demise taking place that you didn't pick up on). That's a big reason why you see how quickly they are able to flip the switch and move on to another guy so quickly.

This is stereotyping based on your personal experiences which you then equate to all women everywhere.  And it's sexist.

Do you think I live in a bottle? I have a bunch of friends and we've all shared experiences over the years and we've all come to the same conclusions with variances here and there. Are there exceptions, sure. But I am not going to give advice based on outliers.

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Plus, generally they hate to be alone and all they have to do is bat their eyes and get another boyfriend pretty easily.

Another sexist point not based in reality.

Are there exceptions, sure, which is why I used the word 'generally'. THE VAST MAJORITY OF WOMEN DO NOT WANT TO BE ALONE. Most seem to start planning their wedding day right out of the womb. If that's sexist so be it.

Also, women are far more picky than men are. They have absolutely every reason to be. Men typically have to go through all sort of evaluations before being chosen, while most of the time women just have to be attractive enough. Now I am saying that as a guy. Our standards are typically not as high as our counterparts. Guys, if you want to ding me here for letting the secret out of the bottle, so be it, but you know I am right here too. Provided she isn't crazy. But man, we should leave that for another thread.

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Actually, you moving on will probably drive her nuts.

You don't know these people.  Wtf?

Lets see... a guy ignoring or blowing off a girl he was in a relationship with? Yes, will definitely drive her nuts. To varying degrees of course. But a lot better advice to the guy than saying 'be understanding and supporting' while she drags you along behind her new life.

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All its really saying is that you are a douche with low standards. Don't be a douche with low standards.

Way too insult people you don't know.

Yeah, if you are acting like a puppy following the whims of a girl that doesn't want you, yes, you are a douche.

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Don't give too much too early, make them prove they are worth it first

This is sexist.  Why don't men have to "prove they are worth it first" to women?  Only a sexist person views relationships so one-sided.

WE ARE CONSTANTLY PROVING IT. That's how it works. We generally are the ones pursuing! I can't tell you how many times I have had a girl who was a friend like a guy, but couldn't ask him out for fear of rejection, which I just had to laugh at each time. One time rejection? And your confidence is shattered? Give me a break. Very few women understand the pursuit because few of them do it. They typically wait to be pursued. Once and a while I hear about one that actually does and they get all my respect, but the vast majority do not. Instead they send signals that they want to be pursued, and can't even handle the guy not acting on those very well.

The problem with many guys is that they over-pursue, and over commit to that too soon. Whether its dinner and a movie, attention, etc etc. So I am telling him go slow and wait for positive reinforcement before going all in. Push too hard too soon and you will blow it. Do I have to be really telling you these things? Have you dated before?

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women are typically in the driver's seat on how a relationship progresses

Your experience does not equal reality for every relationship.

No of course not, which is why I used 'typically'. And they are.

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As my best friend's grandma used to say, "Pussy makes the world go around."

Can we get more misogynistic?  Good grief.

I didn't even say this, A WOMAN DID. I can't even take credit for it, but I will say I think its true. Annnddd... looking at the definition of misogynistic not even sure how you can ask that.

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But thankfully there is, so we do everything we can to get the best of it we can, careers, cars, etc etc. Its all to impress them.

You are referring to a woman's vagina as "it." 

What is wrong with "it"? Thats not derogatory. "it" is used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified. Don't make this more than what it is.

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And shockingly, men do not act solely for the reason you state.  That is your experience alone and you again are trying to state it as if it's a fact for men everywhere.


You are right, some men are gay. This means the rest I left out are doing it for dick.

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I can't imagine where I would be if I disliked them.

You don't even understand the term "sexist" apparently.

This is absolutely ridiculous, you are seriously here just to pick a fight. What should have I put there? "I can't imagine where I would be if I disliked a group of the human species that are not of the same sex as my own?" What should have I written there Stormy?

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I find many of them predictable. And what I posted as advice isn't much different than a group of women talking at happy hour. When men aren't mostly around, women are far more brutal in judging guys on topics than most men will ever know

How would you know what women talk about when they're alone?  Seems like you can't "predict" that, buddy.

I've actually hung out with the opposite sex. Have you?

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I feel like I have been involved with enough to stand by what I said

You've "been involved with enough" women to roll out these stereotypes of the entire gender as mostly fact?  Give me a break.

Wait did you just say... "entire gender"? Stormy, come on. Identifying a group by a female or male? That sounds sexist. You can't group people into orientations like that. What's wrong with you?

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You clearly do not see women as equal to you, given that they have to prove themselves to you/men.  That is textbook sexism and misogyny.

I stand in the shadow of some women. Like friends I have who are single mothers. And I don't do shit for someone who doesn't show me they are worth it, even in the pursuit of a relationship. How either of that, is 'sexism' and misogyny is beyond me.

Seriously, it looks like you have an anger issue with men. I can't see any other reason for you to go off on all of your points, repeating the same words like its going to prove your point more the more times you say it.

The best part is, you aren't going to change me. lol but keep it up. I'll go heat up some popcorn.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: haflander on May 10, 2018, 02:23:42 PM
Even a moderator rebuked him. If that's not a signal that something is fundamentally and objectively wrong and offensive (misogyny in this case), then Idk what is.

Sure ok, maybe you're not mad. Fair enough, Idk your emotions. I don't think you're worried. You're in it for the comedy?? Hmm, that sounds weird to me, but people have fun in different ways, I suppose. Even if you say multiple other users shouldn't be offended or are too PC for you, surely you can clearly see that you're in the minority and saying things that offend others. The thing I find curious is that often when someone is proven or shown to be in the minority, they cling to their dissenting opinion even more than before. Even though I disagree with racists and sexist, they wouldn't bother me if they either shut up about it or acknowledged that they are in the minority, and then contemplate why that is. Don't you think it means something when a large majority has a different opinion than you? We can explain away consumerism with capitalism or advertising, so I don't think that's the same thing.

I saw your other post about reaching 400k. Honestly, congrats! Great achievement.

Based on the definition, yeah I'd say you're a misogynist. You've shown contempt and prejudice.

Other than that, I'm not going to say anything more than my above quote. It looks like that's the one thing you didn't want to reply to, despite spending a good amount of time replying to every other phrase from myself and D&S.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: DarkandStormy on May 10, 2018, 02:52:00 PM
Seriously, it looks like you have an anger issue with men.

Lol.

This can all be summed up very easily.  I have a problem with sexists like you who view and treat women as second rate, or below men.  Your posts here have only further proved that point, not the opposite.  Typing out "I'm not sexist!" doesn't make it true.

And to OP - I wouldn't take advice from someone with a worldview as warped as KTG's.  Good luck to you and hope you find peace in handling your situation.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: zoltani on May 10, 2018, 06:05:15 PM
I would like to see some actual rebuttals to KTG's content beyond just saying it's misogynist or sexist. Those are terms thrown out to end the debate because you have no substance. Throwing out buzzwords does not mean that you are right, and to me shows that you have bought into a narrative and are not able to critically think about things, much less debate them.

Do you disagree that generally men have to pursue women? Do you think it is bad advice to tell men to not do this so much and let a woman prove that she is worth pursuing first? I fail to see this as sexist at all.

Do you disagree that when a man comes on too strong it often turns a woman off? Do you think it is bad advice to tell men to back off a little "ignore her" and let her come to you if she desires? I also fail to see the sexism in that. Nor do I see it as sexist to tell a man to go no contact with an ex. It's true that many women will want to "just be friends" with the ex which means they will get the emotional and mental support of the relationship without the sex. Personally I am not cool with my girlfriend hanging out with exes, but maybe I am a sexist asshole.

Men and women, in general, act differently in relationships. Men want sex and women are in the driver's seat about when that happens. Is it sexist to notice that? Is it also sexist to say that in general men are responsible for the commitment side of the relationship? Especially in today's hookup culture this seems the case.

Is it sexist to say that men desire status largely to attract women? Is it also sexist to say that women are attracted to status? Status in this case is situational, not to do with money or things even. A nerd dungeon master in a D&D group has more status in that group than a jock does, for example.

I fail to see how KTG views women as below men. As far as I can see he stated several times that women are better than men at some things and men are better than women at some things. I don't think that pointing out differences or *gasp* stereotyping is inherently sexist or racist. Some stereotypes actually exist for a reason, and they can be helpful. Did you ever travel and have some stereotypes about how the people in the country act help you to get along in that country? To assimilate better and fit in with the local ways and culture?  I get kind of tired with the fact that even saying there are differences places you in the sexist/racist box.

As I said in my previous post I think some of KTG's advice is pretty good, but the delivery is poor. The approach is definitely something only a man would do, actually. But I know we are not supposed to stereotype.


Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 10, 2018, 06:24:45 PM

Based on the definition, yeah I'd say you're a misogynist. You've shown contempt and prejudice.

Could you take a moment to quote me on where I showed contempt? I hope youíve got some better quotes than Stormy found.

Seriously, I am beginning to think thereís two separate conversations going on.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 10, 2018, 06:38:19 PM
I would like to see some actual rebuttals to KTG's content beyond just saying it's misogynist or sexist. 

You wonít get it, because it doesnít fit their narrative. Stormy tried and basically found out she canít read. Itís just too easy to yell out sexist or misogynist and hope I eat it, which I wonít. I wonít have words put in my mouth. And if I really, REALLY, felt sexist and misgynist, DOES ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE AT THIS POINT I WOULD COVER THAT UP?! I think I have been pretty blunt in my feelings, and honestly, if I was sexist and misgynist, I would just come out and say it!

Man, seriously some of you really need to take the time to learn who you are arguing with. I call it how I see it. If I didnít like women, I would pretty much tell you.

MOD NOTE: No personal attacks, please.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: mjb on May 10, 2018, 06:55:50 PM
And if I really, REALLY, felt sexist and misgynist, DOES ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE AT THIS POINT I WOULD COVER THAT UP?! I think I have been pretty blunt in my feelings, and honestly, if I was sexist and misgynist, I would just come out and say it!

http://theconversation.com/think-youre-all-for-gender-equality-your-unconscious-may-have-other-ideas-69520

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/09/591895426/the-mind-of-the-village-understanding-our-implicit-biases
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 10, 2018, 07:23:50 PM
And if I really, REALLY, felt sexist and misgynist, DOES ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE AT THIS POINT I WOULD COVER THAT UP?! I think I have been pretty blunt in my feelings, and honestly, if I was sexist and misgynist, I would just come out and say it!

http://theconversation.com/think-youre-all-for-gender-equality-your-unconscious-may-have-other-ideas-69520

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/09/591895426/the-mind-of-the-village-understanding-our-implicit-biases

I knew this was coming.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: KTG on May 10, 2018, 09:05:19 PM
Okay this has gotten pretty stupid and way off topic, but I am going to wrap up my feelings here once and for all, and hopefully everyone gets it.

On the subject of sexism and misogyny. . . let me tell you how I really feel about the world. . .

The 'man' in 'Mankind' is historically responsible for not only the vast number of advances in science, medicine, technology, the building of cities (both in design and the actual construction), and many things we see around us, but do you also know what else the 'man' in Mankind is responsible for? War. Genocide. Pollution. The direct or indirect extinction of thousands of species of animals. Man kills for sport. Global Warming: that's on us. The vast majority of murder, rape, theft: done by 'man'. Gang violence, mass shootings, police brutality: man. 'Man' is responsible for two great wars that killed millions and millions of not only other men, but millions and millions of innocent women and children. Countless and countless of wars instigated by 'man' leading to the suffering, displacement, and death of millions and millions of people over the course of history. Every modern religion has been founded by a 'man', yet unable to clearly instruct other men how to follow it, leading to other 'men' to use various teachings to their own benefit causing far more harm than the religious founders could ever dream. Priests in the Catholic church rape young boys, Iman's encourage violence against non-believers. That's man. And the best part, the majority of these 'peaceful religions', have been force by 'men' on other men by the sword, killing those who protested. I could go on. The ONLY thing keeping men from acting like complete savages, is women. Any women feel left out on any of this? Is this too sexist for you? Oh sure, you can defiantly hold up a woman here and there who ordered men off to war, or was a serial killer, and demand to be rightfully included, but is this really something you feel left out of?

Of the two sexes, 'man' has not only been responsible for building most of what we see around us, but also destroying a great deal of it on the way, which I tend to focus on more.  No, I do not think 'man' is better than 'woman'. If I had to pick a sex to blame most of our current problems on the world on, it's man. I guess that makes me a misandrist? Certainly would be ironic since I am a man, but I would be much quicker to accept that than misogyny.

** Has anyone caught on the fact that I have been tearing up man here, and complimenting women? I am willing to bet certain people have missed that. **

So yes, I somehow surrender myself to some pretty identifiable differences between men and women. And it isn't hard to see why. Thousands and thousands of years ago, Mankind evolved INTO hunters and gatherers. Man hunted, women gathered. There are some pretty simple reasons for this. Right out of the gate, women carried children. Man was built stronger. The world was a tough place, with lots of scary animals and food was hard to come by. Man spent the vast majority of his time hunting to provide enough calories for his families to survive. Women, carried on carrying for the children after they were delivered and stayed in the villages doing domestic stuff. That is how we started. Why are men less talkative than women? Because you can't be gossiping while hunting. What are women going to do while hanging out with the kids? They will probably talk to each other, which leads them to be able to communicate a lot better than men. Thousands and thousands of years later, here we are. And somehow, some of you think none of that matters or is relevant because everything is PC now and its 2018.

I know society is changing. I know everyone wants to be included, I get that. I know there is a desire to look past what makes everyone different (and be very recognized as different) yet be treated the same. I know everyone deserves the same opportunities. I have friends who's wives make more than they do, and how that has impacted the relationship. Why is that? Is there really anything wrong with that? There shouldn't be. Its a team, right? Yet there is something lingering there that still fucks with the identity of who should be doing what in the relationship, to both of them. Why is that? Is that because some heads are still in 2017? Or is it dealing with thousands of years of evolution? I am arguing its the later and change doesn't happen overnight.

Don't take it so personally. I've dealt with my share of heartbreak, jealousy, trust, drama, and a whole host of issues on both sides of a relationship. And I am still in the game. If I hated women, I wouldnt be chasing them. When I see a woman, I appreciate them for being very much the opposite of what I am, even when it drives me nuts or I conclude they are simply crazy. The last thing I want is to be staring at another 'man'. Embrace what makes you different, even when we complain. Besides, if you think men are going to stop being pigs anytime soon. . . well come on lets be realistic here. We are who we are.



And a final note: My last girlfriend of 2.5 years, was from Iran. The only woman I have ever met that I could debate the effect of the price of oil on the geo-politics in the middle east. I don't bump into that very often, so she's definitely an outlier for me, and probably many guys here. She would routinely text me articles that the vast majority of my guy friends couldn't comprehend. One of our favorite pastimes: Wine and Cheese night to discuss and debate world events. And in that amazing intellectual brain of her's, all the typical traits you'd expect in a woman: classy, stylish, affectionate, and many of the predictable traits like jealousy if another woman looked at me, and a fan of garbage TV dramas, and the Kardashians. Things didn't work out between us but we are still friends (without benefits by my choice believe it or not) even today. Imagine that. I am even watching her dog when she leaves town. But where is the hatred you ask? Well, there isn't any. Sometimes things just arent meant to be. And I would advise her about dealing with me, the same way I advised the OP.

So all that being said, if you felt I was a misogynist before reading this, and still do after reading it, you're a fucking moron. This includes you too, Stormy.



MOD EDIT: No. This is not how to constructively participate in our forums. Read the forum rules, please.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Poundwise on May 11, 2018, 08:54:19 AM
The 'man' in 'Mankind' is historically responsible for not only the vast number of advances in science, medicine, technology, the building of cities (both in design and the actual construction), and many things we see around us, but do you also know what else the 'man' in Mankind is responsible for?

KTG, are you claiming that men have been responsible for these advances because of inborn abilities, or simply because they were given more opportunity to do so?  I would argue that while there may well be some inborn differences in mental and emotional traits, between men and women, that there is so much overlap, that these are easily swamped by effects of education and culture. 

Men don't have a monopoly on brilliance, genius, or evil. Occasionally one reads about the discovery that some great works patented or credited to men were actually the inventions of women-- not necessarily stolen, but credited to a husband or brother for convenience. Also, some have postulated that women were responsible for many great unsung technological advances, such as the domestication of animals and development of agriculture, as well advances in textiles and foods. Equally, in these days as women approach having equal access to power, we are sadly seeing more cases of women as killers, sex abusers, oppressors, and war hawks. 

A comparison of the abilities and tendencies of men and women (or any groups of peoples such as different races or ethnicities) based on the number of credited tech contributions is not going to be valid unless they occur in situations where they were given roughly equal opportunities by their culture: education, free time, motivation, encouragement, publicity, credit, and money. 

KTG, I haven't had time to read the whole thread, and have not read all your words on women.  It seems to me, you were just trying to give OP a bit of bro-style commiseration and you get this firestorm. But the issue is that you have been speaking in generalities. Men this. Women that. Yes, women and men taken as groups are different. But not so much that we can make many correct assumptions about individuals. The same traits that may have annoyed and angered you in one or more relationships, may not be present in OP's ex.

You may find that there are some problems that happen over and over again with the women you have dated and the women in your circle of friends.  So it seems to you that women are just this way. But remember that you probably chose these women and these friends for certain characteristics. And every personality trait has its downside. For instance, stylish people may be high maintenance and require good looks in their significant others; passionate lovers may also show terrible tempers; dependable friends may not be down for adventure and risk.  So if you wish that women were smarter because you don't meet many intellectual, non-shallow women, you may have to start looking twice at the ladies who spend less time and money on their looks, unfortunately. It's also a rare person who works hard to achieve "alpha" status in mind and/or looks, who also doesn't turn a critical and merciless eye on potential mates.

Here are some generalities I'm comfortable making. Yes, there are women who will reject men based on their looks and money, and of course the other way too.  But really, if you make people happy (http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html), and you respect them, and you have fun together, and you are there for them in rough times, surprise them in good ways, and don't have too many dealbreaking habits (https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html), they will love you.  And they will miss you if you break up.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: partgypsy on May 11, 2018, 02:33:00 PM
The thing about generalities, it often doesn't really help the specific situation. We know a little about his situation and the break up, but not really them as individuals, and we are just guessing "Why" something happened. To then to throw a bunch of sex-specific generalities on top of that, I don't see that as helpful.

Regardless of who broke up with who, it is always good to just get space and distance from that person. Plenty of women have gone through the same situation as op. Same advice applies. KTG, why make it about woman? Why say a woman who frustrates you is "crazy"? I think you are doing some projecting. 

Everyone wants the same things out of a relationship: love and intimacy, emotional security, trust, respect, and friendship. The things we want out of it are a lot more similar than dissimilar. Most people do find someone to love; all it takes is one individual to find that other individual who "fits'. Having preconceptions and attitudes about half the human population, makes that less likely however. 

 ..."wouldnt be chasing them. When I see a woman, I appreciate them for being very much the opposite of what I am, even when it drives me nuts or I conclude they are simply crazy."  Personally, I think "crazy" is a very dismissive invalidating term. I'd think about it if I were you, if you use that describe women on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: MrsWhipple on May 13, 2018, 07:22:31 PM
Besides, if you think men are going to stop being pigs anytime soon. . . well come on lets be realistic here. We are who we are.
Okay, so you are sexist against both men and women. I think that's a pretty bad thing to be! Lots of men aren't pigs, and lots of women aren't emotional crazyheads. Why not just... stop making bad generalities that offend people? There's plenty of room to give good advice without insulting entire swaths of the population.

Also, I want to address one of your early posts, and I hope that at least if this doesn't convince you to stop, it may help some fencesitters with their mindset. This:
Quote
Want to spend a few minutes being critical of men?
is not a good way of dealing with sexism. Not just because it's stupid to tear down whole genders, but because of the fact that overt and covert misogynism in our history has led to power dynamics that disadvantage women in numerous ways. As an analogy (albeit an extreme one), imagine that you say "black people are n*ggers" and then go on to post "hey, want to call me a cracker? I can take it!" The reason you don't care that people hate on men is specifically because you don't have to deal with that shit impacting your life in important ways the same way that women do. You can take it, not because you're this wonderful rational thick-skinned person, but because it really doesn't matter to you in a very essential way. Same thing with men who say that they can handle being catcalled (or worse, they would LOVE to be catcalled), why can't women handle it? Can you see the difference here? Can you see why this attitude is problematic?

If someone posted shit like "black people act so savage and ghetto" and then argued that most of their experiences with black people (and all of their friends' experiences) led them to this attitude, would you accept that as okay? Hopefully the answer is "hell no, that's racist as shit." Well, sorry, but your whole "women are predictable and irrational" thing is sexist as shit, no matter how you got there.

I just was reading an askreddit thread where transgendered people post how people treat them differently. Time and time again, you read that they are treated more seriously as males - FTM or MTF, doesn't matter, presenting as male gets you taken seriously in day to day encounters.  Your attitude in this thread is part of the problem that wears down at women day in and day out, in small and big ways, in our careers and personal encounters. You can brush this off, claim that we're all being too sensitive, whatever. I used to have a similar attitude. I grew out of it over time as I learned more compassion and I hope that you do too and stop insulting women with your generalizations. Even if you don't, I hope somebody reading this finds it useful.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: RetiredAt63 on May 14, 2018, 06:49:31 AM
Besides, if you think men are going to stop being pigs anytime soon. . . well come on lets be realistic here. We are who we are.
Okay, so you are sexist against both men and women. I think that's a pretty bad thing to be! Lots of men aren't pigs, and lots of women aren't emotional crazyheads. Why not just... stop making bad generalities that offend people? There's plenty of room to give good advice without insulting entire swaths of the population.

Also, I want to address one of your early posts, and I hope that at least if this doesn't convince you to stop, it may help some fencesitters with their mindset. This:
Quote
Want to spend a few minutes being critical of men?
is not a good way of dealing with sexism. Not just because it's stupid to tear down whole genders, but because of the fact that overt and covert misogynism in our history has led to power dynamics that disadvantage women in numerous ways. As an analogy (albeit an extreme one), imagine that you say "black people are n*ggers" and then go on to post "hey, want to call me a cracker? I can take it!" The reason you don't care that people hate on men is specifically because you don't have to deal with that shit impacting your life in important ways the same way that women do. You can take it, not because you're this wonderful rational thick-skinned person, but because it really doesn't matter to you in a very essential way. Same thing with men who say that they can handle being catcalled (or worse, they would LOVE to be catcalled), why can't women handle it? Can you see the difference here? Can you see why this attitude is problematic?

If someone posted shit like "black people act so savage and ghetto" and then argued that most of their experiences with black people (and all of their friends' experiences) led them to this attitude, would you accept that as okay? Hopefully the answer is "hell no, that's racist as shit." Well, sorry, but your whole "women are predictable and irrational" thing is sexist as shit, no matter how you got there.

I just was reading an askreddit thread where transgendered people post how people treat them differently. Time and time again, you read that they are treated more seriously as males - FTM or MTF, doesn't matter, presenting as male gets you taken seriously in day to day encounters.  Your attitude in this thread is part of the problem that wears down at women day in and day out, in small and big ways, in our careers and personal encounters. You can brush this off, claim that we're all being too sensitive, whatever. I used to have a similar attitude. I grew out of it over time as I learned more compassion and I hope that you do too and stop insulting women with your generalizations. Even if you don't, I hope somebody reading this finds it useful.

This wins best post of the day. 

(where is that thread so I can make it official?  I know it exists but I can't find it).
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: Rightflyer on May 14, 2018, 07:28:25 AM
As 50-something male in a long (read looonng) term committed heterosexual relationship I have to comment.

There are a lot of females here that have jumped down some male posters' throats for making comments deemed to be misogynist.

First off. The moderator fucked up. The post up-thread in question may have been rough but it was not misogynist. Calling it so weakens the word misogyny. The moderator shouldn't have been so quick to make a judgement.

Second, certain women here are showing that they are thin-skinned and intolerant of world views that don't match their own. Maybe try being a little more respectful of others views... especially if they clash with your own.

Thirdly, the constant drive to Political Correctness is squelching conversations that could be more productive. So, ladies (and their male supporters), you might want to listen and ask questions before jumping on the "righteously, pissed-off feminist" bandwagon.
You might learn something.

Lastly, for the "feminists" getting riled up. Give it a rest. Feminism won. You have equality. Sexism, in any institutional sense, exists only in your head.








 
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: DarkandStormy on May 14, 2018, 07:31:09 AM
Second, certain women here are showing that they are thin-skinned and intolerant of world views that don't match their own. Maybe try being a little more respectful of others views... especially if they clash with your own.

Pot(s) meet kettle.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: haflander on May 14, 2018, 08:04:48 AM
1. flyer, I have an idea. Show this to your SO. If she thinks that nothing is wrong with the statements of KTG, likes the way that women were described, and is cool with your statement, then I'd sure be surprised. Evidence (prob isn't possible, Idk) would be even better!

2. Do you know how many of the protesters are female? Click on the profiles, it may surprise you. I find it funny and ironic that you think those opposing sexism against women are surely women.

3. Mods have chimed in twice now. For the second time, it had nothing to do with sexism, but rather just being mean, disrespectful, crude. I think that was the result of people disagreeing with KTG, so he defaulted to acting that way. He says he's not mad and is in it for the laughs...if that's the truth, then why is he cursing that way? I'd guess that the two mod comments were from two different mods.

4. I don't see much from KTG that I'd call productive. A few constructive things in his original comment, sure. His long comment on the history of mankind sure was interesting, but I don't see how it relates to the discussion (count me in agreement with poundwise, gypsy, whipple, Ra63). No reason to respect many of his comments. What I'd call productive is that those four and several others have opposed his other disparaging comments... showing all (including OP) that there are many who disagree with KTG's views.

5. If you think there's complete equality in our society and the world you don't have much objectivity or awareness...therefore, it would make me look foolish to spend much more time arguing with you.
Title: Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
Post by: arebelspy on May 14, 2018, 08:30:02 AM
MOD NOTE:

I'm locking the thread. There's nothing this adds to the MMM forums.

First off. The moderator fucked up. The post up-thread in question may have been rough but it was not misogynist. Calling it so weakens the word misogyny. The moderator shouldn't have been so quick to make a judgement.

Not only was the post misogynistic, the poster continue to double and triple down by "explaining" how it wasn't with more rampant sexism.


Thirdly, the constant drive to Political Correctness is squelching conversations that could be more productive.

Here's the thing. We allow all kinds of views, as long as the person expressing them isn't being an asshole.

The problem is, people who are blatantly racist, sexist, etc. are assholes. And they can't help but be so when they explain their views.

These are, by definition not productive conversations in the first place.  I agree with you, the conversations could be productive. But instead, they aren't. And at that point, we step in and say "knock it the hell off."

Sometimes the conversations are productive, because someone presents their viewpoint in a tolerant way, explaining what they actually think, without being an asshole, and other people counter, and people learn. Or don't. But they aren't dicks about it. That wasn't the case here.

If you don't like the forum rules, and feel like being an asshole is a right, or that "political correctness" causing us to censor assholes is a bad thing, feel free to find another forum where you can have "productive" conversations where people trash people who they view as inferior.



Anyone who has further comments, or objections to the thread lock, feel free to PM me or another moderator.

Cheers!