Author Topic: Just some ended relationship venting...  (Read 6479 times)

Flynlow

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2018, 10:57:23 AM »
Sorry to hear, but 26 is an awesome age to be single!  Go watch the 2nd Austin powers movie intro when his wife turns out to be a robot if you ever need some irreverent cheering up about being single. 

I would ignore GOFUís post, seems like projecting his personal situation rather than trying to help you with yours.  KTGís made me laugh, especially about the shirt thing.  Iíve had that happen.

I try to focus on the positives, which for me usually means recommitting to my hobbies.  I like rock climbing and running.  Well, actually I hate running, but it works better than anything else Iíve found for dealing with stress (usually from work, though it works for relationship stress too).  I run until I get tired, usually takes me about 3 miles to burn off my stress and quiet my mental doubts. Find a good state park or trail rather than a gym or treadmill.  As a side benefit, hobbies are a great way to meet people in a casual setting and see if things click. 

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2018, 08:24:56 AM »
Re: Stress.

I've recently been trying to do 30 minutes in a sauna 5 times / week followed by a cold shower.

There's a bunch of evidence that it's good for your body and your brain. It feels good too.

deek

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2018, 11:16:30 AM »
Sorry to hear, but 26 is an awesome age to be single!  Go watch the 2nd Austin powers movie intro when his wife turns out to be a robot if you ever need some irreverent cheering up about being single. 

I would ignore GOFUís post, seems like projecting his personal situation rather than trying to help you with yours.  KTGís made me laugh, especially about the shirt thing.  Iíve had that happen.

I try to focus on the positives, which for me usually means recommitting to my hobbies.  I like rock climbing and running.  Well, actually I hate running, but it works better than anything else Iíve found for dealing with stress (usually from work, though it works for relationship stress too).  I run until I get tired, usually takes me about 3 miles to burn off my stress and quiet my mental doubts. Find a good state park or trail rather than a gym or treadmill.  As a side benefit, hobbies are a great way to meet people in a casual setting and see if things click.

A lot like how I'm currently handling the stress. I'm much better than I was 2 weeks ago when this first came about. I'm back in a gym routine already, to the point where I feel real disappointed if I don't make it 4 days a week... I went at 8:45 last night, so glad I did. I go fishing a lot and played my first round of golf on Friday. Things are going well.

partgypsy

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2018, 11:38:56 AM »
You are young. Enjoy it (within reason ; )

wenchsenior

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2018, 12:46:46 PM »

As a woman, I'm gonna burst your bubble here. No, you don't understand women, no one does. Just like no one can understand men. You can understand individuals, but not ALL women or ALL men. Overall, you're coming off as pretty sexist. Maybe think about it.
Yeah, Oh, women are so predictable once you learn to read their emotional messes - not a great way to treat 50% of the human population. That's some awfully sexist reasoning going on there and it seems like the poster is bitter from a few bad experiences. If my husband threw a perfectly good shirt away because it was a gift from an ex and he thought I wouldn't want it around, I'd be upset that he wasted a perfectly good shirt!

LOL. Yeah, there's a lot of silliness in that post.  There's a shirt in my collection right now that I personally wear that was a gift to DH from his ex, back in the late 1980s.  That's a good shirt! (He'd still be wearing it, but he bulked up a lot the decade after I met him). 

DarkandStormy

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2018, 07:40:50 AM »
If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

Your posts suggest you are sexist and a misogynist.  Full stop.

KTG

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2018, 07:53:12 AM »
If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

Your posts suggest you are sexist and a misogynist.  Full stop.

You posts suggests you are ignorant. Full stop.

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There's a shirt in my collection right now that I personally wear that was a gift to DH from his ex, back in the late 1980s.  That's a good shirt! (He'd still be wearing it, but he bulked up a lot the decade after I met him).

Yeah I hear that is the thing to do now! I asked my friends about it and they asked their significant others if it was okay to keep their shirts, and they said it was all okay! Then I mentioned the trend to my neighbor and he says his wife is totally down for it too! Then our other neighbor overheard our convo and said his wife only allows him to wear shirts given to him by his exes! The mail woman pulled up, and we asked her, and she confirmed all was good with her boyfriend not only wearing the shirts his ex gave him, but also the girl he cheated on her with! Then a cop pulled up, we asked him what he thought, and he said the t-shirt he was wearing right then was bought by two exes at the same time, and his wife thought it was his best shirt ever!

Then I woke up.

wenchsenior

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2018, 08:35:24 AM »
If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

Your posts suggest you are sexist and a misogynist.  Full stop.

You posts suggests you are ignorant. Full stop.

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There's a shirt in my collection right now that I personally wear that was a gift to DH from his ex, back in the late 1980s.  That's a good shirt! (He'd still be wearing it, but he bulked up a lot the decade after I met him).

Yeah I hear that is the thing to do now! I asked my friends about it and they asked their significant others if it was okay to keep their shirts, and they said it was all okay! Then I mentioned the trend to my neighbor and he says his wife is totally down for it too! Then our other neighbor overheard our convo and said his wife only allows him to wear shirts given to him by his exes! The mail woman pulled up, and we asked her, and she confirmed all was good with her boyfriend not only wearing the shirts his ex gave him, but also the girl he cheated on her with! Then a cop pulled up, we asked him what he thought, and he said the t-shirt he was wearing right then was bought by two exes at the same time, and his wife thought it was his best shirt ever!

Then I woke up.

I'm not sure what you are on about.

haflander

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2018, 08:48:12 AM »
wench it's pretty simple... KTG is mad because his worldview is being challenged by multiple users, so he's lashing out with sarcasm. Even a moderator rebuked him. If that's not a signal that something is fundamentally and objectively wrong and offensive (misogyny in this case), then Idk what is.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2018, 12:17:05 PM »
If it sounds like I am being an ass, that's one thing, but to call it hate, that's ignorant.

Your posts suggest you are sexist and a misogynist.  Full stop.

You posts suggests you are ignorant. Full stop.

Ah, ok.

There is a reason there is a saying that 'Men are from Mars, women are from Venus'.

This is sexist.

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It took me a long time to figure them out, and I just roll my eyes at the predictability now.

This is chauvinist and sexist.

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But, if its one thing I have certainly learned is that while men mourn the loss of a relationship after it ends, a lot of women will do it while in one, all the while not saying a word about it (although you'll realize later there were hints of the demise taking place that you didn't pick up on). That's a big reason why you see how quickly they are able to flip the switch and move on to another guy so quickly.

This is stereotyping based on your personal experiences which you then equate to all women everywhere.  And it's sexist.

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Plus, generally they hate to be alone and all they have to do is bat their eyes and get another boyfriend pretty easily.

Another sexist point not based in reality.

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Actually, you moving on will probably drive her nuts.

You don't know these people.  Wtf?

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All its really saying is that you are a douche with low standards. Don't be a douche with low standards.

Way too insult people you don't know.

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Don't give too much too early, make them prove they are worth it first

This is sexist.  Why don't men have to "prove they are worth it first" to women?  Only a sexist person views relationships so one-sided.

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women are typically in the driver's seat on how a relationship progresses

Your experience does not equal reality for every relationship.

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As my best friend's grandma used to say, "Pussy makes the world go around."

Can we get more misogynistic?  Good grief.

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But thankfully there is, so we do everything we can to get the best of it we can, careers, cars, etc etc. Its all to impress them.

You are referring to a woman's vagina as "it."  And shockingly, men do not act solely for the reason you state.  That is your experience alone and you again are trying to state it as if it's a fact for men everywhere.

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I can't imagine where I would be if I disliked them.

You don't even understand the term "sexist" apparently.

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I find many of them predictable. And what I posted as advice isn't much different than a group of women talking at happy hour. When men aren't mostly around, women are far more brutal in judging guys on topics than most men will ever know

How would you know what women talk about when they're alone?  Seems like you can't "predict" that, buddy.

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I feel like I have been involved with enough to stand by what I said

You've "been involved with enough" women to roll out these stereotypes of the entire gender as mostly fact?  Give me a break.

You clearly do not see women as equal to you, given that they have to prove themselves to you/men.  That is textbook sexism and misogyny.

KTG

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2018, 01:44:28 PM »
KTG is mad because his worldview is being challenged by multiple users, so he's lashing out with sarcasm. Even a moderator rebuked him. If that's not a signal that something is fundamentally and objectively wrong and offensive (misogyny in this case), then Idk what is.

Mad because my worldview is being challenged? Lol come on, do I sound like I am worried about my would view being challenged? At this point I am in it for the comedy.

@DarkandStormy before we continue, lets agree on what 'misogyny' actually is. Making it as easy as possible, google defines it as "dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women." (https://www.google.com/search?q=misogyny+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b). If you want to use another definition let me know.

This is sexist.

So is saying women make better mothers then men do, and men make better dads than women do. So what? If you want to get on your high PC 2018 horse so be it, but just because I say we are different doesn't mean I think of them less or they are worse than men. Quit making this out to me more than it is. There are many things women generally do better than men, and there are things men generally do better than women. That's just historic fact.

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It took me a long time to figure them out, and I just roll my eyes at the predictability now.

This is chauvinist and sexist.

If you said over-confident, I would certainly agree with you. Chauvinist? Maybe. Sexist? Really reaching here.

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But, if its one thing I have certainly learned is that while men mourn the loss of a relationship after it ends, a lot of women will do it while in one, all the while not saying a word about it (although you'll realize later there were hints of the demise taking place that you didn't pick up on). That's a big reason why you see how quickly they are able to flip the switch and move on to another guy so quickly.

This is stereotyping based on your personal experiences which you then equate to all women everywhere.  And it's sexist.

Do you think I live in a bottle? I have a bunch of friends and we've all shared experiences over the years and we've all come to the same conclusions with variances here and there. Are there exceptions, sure. But I am not going to give advice based on outliers.

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Plus, generally they hate to be alone and all they have to do is bat their eyes and get another boyfriend pretty easily.

Another sexist point not based in reality.

Are there exceptions, sure, which is why I used the word 'generally'. THE VAST MAJORITY OF WOMEN DO NOT WANT TO BE ALONE. Most seem to start planning their wedding day right out of the womb. If that's sexist so be it.

Also, women are far more picky than men are. They have absolutely every reason to be. Men typically have to go through all sort of evaluations before being chosen, while most of the time women just have to be attractive enough. Now I am saying that as a guy. Our standards are typically not as high as our counterparts. Guys, if you want to ding me here for letting the secret out of the bottle, so be it, but you know I am right here too. Provided she isn't crazy. But man, we should leave that for another thread.

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Actually, you moving on will probably drive her nuts.

You don't know these people.  Wtf?

Lets see... a guy ignoring or blowing off a girl he was in a relationship with? Yes, will definitely drive her nuts. To varying degrees of course. But a lot better advice to the guy than saying 'be understanding and supporting' while she drags you along behind her new life.

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All its really saying is that you are a douche with low standards. Don't be a douche with low standards.

Way too insult people you don't know.

Yeah, if you are acting like a puppy following the whims of a girl that doesn't want you, yes, you are a douche.

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Don't give too much too early, make them prove they are worth it first

This is sexist.  Why don't men have to "prove they are worth it first" to women?  Only a sexist person views relationships so one-sided.

WE ARE CONSTANTLY PROVING IT. That's how it works. We generally are the ones pursuing! I can't tell you how many times I have had a girl who was a friend like a guy, but couldn't ask him out for fear of rejection, which I just had to laugh at each time. One time rejection? And your confidence is shattered? Give me a break. Very few women understand the pursuit because few of them do it. They typically wait to be pursued. Once and a while I hear about one that actually does and they get all my respect, but the vast majority do not. Instead they send signals that they want to be pursued, and can't even handle the guy not acting on those very well.

The problem with many guys is that they over-pursue, and over commit to that too soon. Whether its dinner and a movie, attention, etc etc. So I am telling him go slow and wait for positive reinforcement before going all in. Push too hard too soon and you will blow it. Do I have to be really telling you these things? Have you dated before?

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women are typically in the driver's seat on how a relationship progresses

Your experience does not equal reality for every relationship.

No of course not, which is why I used 'typically'. And they are.

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As my best friend's grandma used to say, "Pussy makes the world go around."

Can we get more misogynistic?  Good grief.

I didn't even say this, A WOMAN DID. I can't even take credit for it, but I will say I think its true. Annnddd... looking at the definition of misogynistic not even sure how you can ask that.

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But thankfully there is, so we do everything we can to get the best of it we can, careers, cars, etc etc. Its all to impress them.

You are referring to a woman's vagina as "it." 

What is wrong with "it"? Thats not derogatory. "it" is used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified. Don't make this more than what it is.

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And shockingly, men do not act solely for the reason you state.  That is your experience alone and you again are trying to state it as if it's a fact for men everywhere.


You are right, some men are gay. This means the rest I left out are doing it for dick.

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I can't imagine where I would be if I disliked them.

You don't even understand the term "sexist" apparently.

This is absolutely ridiculous, you are seriously here just to pick a fight. What should have I put there? "I can't imagine where I would be if I disliked a group of the human species that are not of the same sex as my own?" What should have I written there Stormy?

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I find many of them predictable. And what I posted as advice isn't much different than a group of women talking at happy hour. When men aren't mostly around, women are far more brutal in judging guys on topics than most men will ever know

How would you know what women talk about when they're alone?  Seems like you can't "predict" that, buddy.

I've actually hung out with the opposite sex. Have you?

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I feel like I have been involved with enough to stand by what I said

You've "been involved with enough" women to roll out these stereotypes of the entire gender as mostly fact?  Give me a break.

Wait did you just say... "entire gender"? Stormy, come on. Identifying a group by a female or male? That sounds sexist. You can't group people into orientations like that. What's wrong with you?

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You clearly do not see women as equal to you, given that they have to prove themselves to you/men.  That is textbook sexism and misogyny.

I stand in the shadow of some women. Like friends I have who are single mothers. And I don't do shit for someone who doesn't show me they are worth it, even in the pursuit of a relationship. How either of that, is 'sexism' and misogyny is beyond me.

Seriously, it looks like you have an anger issue with men. I can't see any other reason for you to go off on all of your points, repeating the same words like its going to prove your point more the more times you say it.

The best part is, you aren't going to change me. lol but keep it up. I'll go heat up some popcorn.

haflander

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2018, 02:23:42 PM »
Even a moderator rebuked him. If that's not a signal that something is fundamentally and objectively wrong and offensive (misogyny in this case), then Idk what is.

Sure ok, maybe you're not mad. Fair enough, Idk your emotions. I don't think you're worried. You're in it for the comedy?? Hmm, that sounds weird to me, but people have fun in different ways, I suppose. Even if you say multiple other users shouldn't be offended or are too PC for you, surely you can clearly see that you're in the minority and saying things that offend others. The thing I find curious is that often when someone is proven or shown to be in the minority, they cling to their dissenting opinion even more than before. Even though I disagree with racists and sexist, they wouldn't bother me if they either shut up about it or acknowledged that they are in the minority, and then contemplate why that is. Don't you think it means something when a large majority has a different opinion than you? We can explain away consumerism with capitalism or advertising, so I don't think that's the same thing.

I saw your other post about reaching 400k. Honestly, congrats! Great achievement.

Based on the definition, yeah I'd say you're a misogynist. You've shown contempt and prejudice.

Other than that, I'm not going to say anything more than my above quote. It looks like that's the one thing you didn't want to reply to, despite spending a good amount of time replying to every other phrase from myself and D&S.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2018, 02:52:00 PM »
Seriously, it looks like you have an anger issue with men.

Lol.

This can all be summed up very easily.  I have a problem with sexists like you who view and treat women as second rate, or below men.  Your posts here have only further proved that point, not the opposite.  Typing out "I'm not sexist!" doesn't make it true.

And to OP - I wouldn't take advice from someone with a worldview as warped as KTG's.  Good luck to you and hope you find peace in handling your situation.

zoltani

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2018, 06:05:15 PM »
I would like to see some actual rebuttals to KTG's content beyond just saying it's misogynist or sexist. Those are terms thrown out to end the debate because you have no substance. Throwing out buzzwords does not mean that you are right, and to me shows that you have bought into a narrative and are not able to critically think about things, much less debate them.

Do you disagree that generally men have to pursue women? Do you think it is bad advice to tell men to not do this so much and let a woman prove that she is worth pursuing first? I fail to see this as sexist at all.

Do you disagree that when a man comes on too strong it often turns a woman off? Do you think it is bad advice to tell men to back off a little "ignore her" and let her come to you if she desires? I also fail to see the sexism in that. Nor do I see it as sexist to tell a man to go no contact with an ex. It's true that many women will want to "just be friends" with the ex which means they will get the emotional and mental support of the relationship without the sex. Personally I am not cool with my girlfriend hanging out with exes, but maybe I am a sexist asshole.

Men and women, in general, act differently in relationships. Men want sex and women are in the driver's seat about when that happens. Is it sexist to notice that? Is it also sexist to say that in general men are responsible for the commitment side of the relationship? Especially in today's hookup culture this seems the case.

Is it sexist to say that men desire status largely to attract women? Is it also sexist to say that women are attracted to status? Status in this case is situational, not to do with money or things even. A nerd dungeon master in a D&D group has more status in that group than a jock does, for example.

I fail to see how KTG views women as below men. As far as I can see he stated several times that women are better than men at some things and men are better than women at some things. I don't think that pointing out differences or *gasp* stereotyping is inherently sexist or racist. Some stereotypes actually exist for a reason, and they can be helpful. Did you ever travel and have some stereotypes about how the people in the country act help you to get along in that country? To assimilate better and fit in with the local ways and culture?  I get kind of tired with the fact that even saying there are differences places you in the sexist/racist box.

As I said in my previous post I think some of KTG's advice is pretty good, but the delivery is poor. The approach is definitely something only a man would do, actually. But I know we are not supposed to stereotype.



KTG

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2018, 06:24:45 PM »

Based on the definition, yeah I'd say you're a misogynist. You've shown contempt and prejudice.

Could you take a moment to quote me on where I showed contempt? I hope youíve got some better quotes than Stormy found.

Seriously, I am beginning to think thereís two separate conversations going on.

KTG

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2018, 06:38:19 PM »
I would like to see some actual rebuttals to KTG's content beyond just saying it's misogynist or sexist. 

You wonít get it, because it doesnít fit their narrative. Stormy tried and basically found out she canít read. Itís just too easy to yell out sexist or misogynist and hope I eat it, which I wonít. I wonít have words put in my mouth. And if I really, REALLY, felt sexist and misgynist, DOES ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE AT THIS POINT I WOULD COVER THAT UP?! I think I have been pretty blunt in my feelings, and honestly, if I was sexist and misgynist, I would just come out and say it!

Man, seriously some of you really need to take the time to learn who you are arguing with. I call it how I see it. If I didnít like women, I would pretty much tell you.

MOD NOTE: No personal attacks, please.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 08:21:48 AM by arebelspy »

mjb

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2018, 06:55:50 PM »
And if I really, REALLY, felt sexist and misgynist, DOES ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE AT THIS POINT I WOULD COVER THAT UP?! I think I have been pretty blunt in my feelings, and honestly, if I was sexist and misgynist, I would just come out and say it!

http://theconversation.com/think-youre-all-for-gender-equality-your-unconscious-may-have-other-ideas-69520

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/09/591895426/the-mind-of-the-village-understanding-our-implicit-biases

KTG

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2018, 07:23:50 PM »
And if I really, REALLY, felt sexist and misgynist, DOES ANYONE REALLY BELIEVE AT THIS POINT I WOULD COVER THAT UP?! I think I have been pretty blunt in my feelings, and honestly, if I was sexist and misgynist, I would just come out and say it!

http://theconversation.com/think-youre-all-for-gender-equality-your-unconscious-may-have-other-ideas-69520

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/09/591895426/the-mind-of-the-village-understanding-our-implicit-biases

I knew this was coming.

KTG

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2018, 09:05:19 PM »
Okay this has gotten pretty stupid and way off topic, but I am going to wrap up my feelings here once and for all, and hopefully everyone gets it.

On the subject of sexism and misogyny. . . let me tell you how I really feel about the world. . .

The 'man' in 'Mankind' is historically responsible for not only the vast number of advances in science, medicine, technology, the building of cities (both in design and the actual construction), and many things we see around us, but do you also know what else the 'man' in Mankind is responsible for? War. Genocide. Pollution. The direct or indirect extinction of thousands of species of animals. Man kills for sport. Global Warming: that's on us. The vast majority of murder, rape, theft: done by 'man'. Gang violence, mass shootings, police brutality: man. 'Man' is responsible for two great wars that killed millions and millions of not only other men, but millions and millions of innocent women and children. Countless and countless of wars instigated by 'man' leading to the suffering, displacement, and death of millions and millions of people over the course of history. Every modern religion has been founded by a 'man', yet unable to clearly instruct other men how to follow it, leading to other 'men' to use various teachings to their own benefit causing far more harm than the religious founders could ever dream. Priests in the Catholic church rape young boys, Iman's encourage violence against non-believers. That's man. And the best part, the majority of these 'peaceful religions', have been force by 'men' on other men by the sword, killing those who protested. I could go on. The ONLY thing keeping men from acting like complete savages, is women. Any women feel left out on any of this? Is this too sexist for you? Oh sure, you can defiantly hold up a woman here and there who ordered men off to war, or was a serial killer, and demand to be rightfully included, but is this really something you feel left out of?

Of the two sexes, 'man' has not only been responsible for building most of what we see around us, but also destroying a great deal of it on the way, which I tend to focus on more.  No, I do not think 'man' is better than 'woman'. If I had to pick a sex to blame most of our current problems on the world on, it's man. I guess that makes me a misandrist? Certainly would be ironic since I am a man, but I would be much quicker to accept that than misogyny.

** Has anyone caught on the fact that I have been tearing up man here, and complimenting women? I am willing to bet certain people have missed that. **

So yes, I somehow surrender myself to some pretty identifiable differences between men and women. And it isn't hard to see why. Thousands and thousands of years ago, Mankind evolved INTO hunters and gatherers. Man hunted, women gathered. There are some pretty simple reasons for this. Right out of the gate, women carried children. Man was built stronger. The world was a tough place, with lots of scary animals and food was hard to come by. Man spent the vast majority of his time hunting to provide enough calories for his families to survive. Women, carried on carrying for the children after they were delivered and stayed in the villages doing domestic stuff. That is how we started. Why are men less talkative than women? Because you can't be gossiping while hunting. What are women going to do while hanging out with the kids? They will probably talk to each other, which leads them to be able to communicate a lot better than men. Thousands and thousands of years later, here we are. And somehow, some of you think none of that matters or is relevant because everything is PC now and its 2018.

I know society is changing. I know everyone wants to be included, I get that. I know there is a desire to look past what makes everyone different (and be very recognized as different) yet be treated the same. I know everyone deserves the same opportunities. I have friends who's wives make more than they do, and how that has impacted the relationship. Why is that? Is there really anything wrong with that? There shouldn't be. Its a team, right? Yet there is something lingering there that still fucks with the identity of who should be doing what in the relationship, to both of them. Why is that? Is that because some heads are still in 2017? Or is it dealing with thousands of years of evolution? I am arguing its the later and change doesn't happen overnight.

Don't take it so personally. I've dealt with my share of heartbreak, jealousy, trust, drama, and a whole host of issues on both sides of a relationship. And I am still in the game. If I hated women, I wouldnt be chasing them. When I see a woman, I appreciate them for being very much the opposite of what I am, even when it drives me nuts or I conclude they are simply crazy. The last thing I want is to be staring at another 'man'. Embrace what makes you different, even when we complain. Besides, if you think men are going to stop being pigs anytime soon. . . well come on lets be realistic here. We are who we are.



And a final note: My last girlfriend of 2.5 years, was from Iran. The only woman I have ever met that I could debate the effect of the price of oil on the geo-politics in the middle east. I don't bump into that very often, so she's definitely an outlier for me, and probably many guys here. She would routinely text me articles that the vast majority of my guy friends couldn't comprehend. One of our favorite pastimes: Wine and Cheese night to discuss and debate world events. And in that amazing intellectual brain of her's, all the typical traits you'd expect in a woman: classy, stylish, affectionate, and many of the predictable traits like jealousy if another woman looked at me, and a fan of garbage TV dramas, and the Kardashians. Things didn't work out between us but we are still friends (without benefits by my choice believe it or not) even today. Imagine that. I am even watching her dog when she leaves town. But where is the hatred you ask? Well, there isn't any. Sometimes things just arent meant to be. And I would advise her about dealing with me, the same way I advised the OP.

So all that being said, if you felt I was a misogynist before reading this, and still do after reading it, you're a fucking moron. This includes you too, Stormy.



MOD EDIT: No. This is not how to constructively participate in our forums. Read the forum rules, please.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 10:16:38 AM by arebelspy »

Poundwise

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2018, 08:54:19 AM »
The 'man' in 'Mankind' is historically responsible for not only the vast number of advances in science, medicine, technology, the building of cities (both in design and the actual construction), and many things we see around us, but do you also know what else the 'man' in Mankind is responsible for?

KTG, are you claiming that men have been responsible for these advances because of inborn abilities, or simply because they were given more opportunity to do so?  I would argue that while there may well be some inborn differences in mental and emotional traits, between men and women, that there is so much overlap, that these are easily swamped by effects of education and culture. 

Men don't have a monopoly on brilliance, genius, or evil. Occasionally one reads about the discovery that some great works patented or credited to men were actually the inventions of women-- not necessarily stolen, but credited to a husband or brother for convenience. Also, some have postulated that women were responsible for many great unsung technological advances, such as the domestication of animals and development of agriculture, as well advances in textiles and foods. Equally, in these days as women approach having equal access to power, we are sadly seeing more cases of women as killers, sex abusers, oppressors, and war hawks. 

A comparison of the abilities and tendencies of men and women (or any groups of peoples such as different races or ethnicities) based on the number of credited tech contributions is not going to be valid unless they occur in situations where they were given roughly equal opportunities by their culture: education, free time, motivation, encouragement, publicity, credit, and money. 

KTG, I haven't had time to read the whole thread, and have not read all your words on women.  It seems to me, you were just trying to give OP a bit of bro-style commiseration and you get this firestorm. But the issue is that you have been speaking in generalities. Men this. Women that. Yes, women and men taken as groups are different. But not so much that we can make many correct assumptions about individuals. The same traits that may have annoyed and angered you in one or more relationships, may not be present in OP's ex.

You may find that there are some problems that happen over and over again with the women you have dated and the women in your circle of friends.  So it seems to you that women are just this way. But remember that you probably chose these women and these friends for certain characteristics. And every personality trait has its downside. For instance, stylish people may be high maintenance and require good looks in their significant others; passionate lovers may also show terrible tempers; dependable friends may not be down for adventure and risk.  So if you wish that women were smarter because you don't meet many intellectual, non-shallow women, you may have to start looking twice at the ladies who spend less time and money on their looks, unfortunately. It's also a rare person who works hard to achieve "alpha" status in mind and/or looks, who also doesn't turn a critical and merciless eye on potential mates.

Here are some generalities I'm comfortable making. Yes, there are women who will reject men based on their looks and money, and of course the other way too.  But really, if you make people happy, and you respect them, and you have fun together, and you are there for them in rough times, surprise them in good ways, and don't have too many dealbreaking habits, they will love you.  And they will miss you if you break up.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 02:41:30 PM by Poundwise »

partgypsy

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2018, 02:33:00 PM »
The thing about generalities, it often doesn't really help the specific situation. We know a little about his situation and the break up, but not really them as individuals, and we are just guessing "Why" something happened. To then to throw a bunch of sex-specific generalities on top of that, I don't see that as helpful.

Regardless of who broke up with who, it is always good to just get space and distance from that person. Plenty of women have gone through the same situation as op. Same advice applies. KTG, why make it about woman? Why say a woman who frustrates you is "crazy"? I think you are doing some projecting. 

Everyone wants the same things out of a relationship: love and intimacy, emotional security, trust, respect, and friendship. The things we want out of it are a lot more similar than dissimilar. Most people do find someone to love; all it takes is one individual to find that other individual who "fits'. Having preconceptions and attitudes about half the human population, makes that less likely however. 

 ..."wouldnt be chasing them. When I see a woman, I appreciate them for being very much the opposite of what I am, even when it drives me nuts or I conclude they are simply crazy."  Personally, I think "crazy" is a very dismissive invalidating term. I'd think about it if I were you, if you use that describe women on a regular basis.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 02:45:29 PM by partgypsy »

MrsWhipple

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2018, 07:22:31 PM »
Besides, if you think men are going to stop being pigs anytime soon. . . well come on lets be realistic here. We are who we are.
Okay, so you are sexist against both men and women. I think that's a pretty bad thing to be! Lots of men aren't pigs, and lots of women aren't emotional crazyheads. Why not just... stop making bad generalities that offend people? There's plenty of room to give good advice without insulting entire swaths of the population.

Also, I want to address one of your early posts, and I hope that at least if this doesn't convince you to stop, it may help some fencesitters with their mindset. This:
Quote
Want to spend a few minutes being critical of men?
is not a good way of dealing with sexism. Not just because it's stupid to tear down whole genders, but because of the fact that overt and covert misogynism in our history has led to power dynamics that disadvantage women in numerous ways. As an analogy (albeit an extreme one), imagine that you say "black people are n*ggers" and then go on to post "hey, want to call me a cracker? I can take it!" The reason you don't care that people hate on men is specifically because you don't have to deal with that shit impacting your life in important ways the same way that women do. You can take it, not because you're this wonderful rational thick-skinned person, but because it really doesn't matter to you in a very essential way. Same thing with men who say that they can handle being catcalled (or worse, they would LOVE to be catcalled), why can't women handle it? Can you see the difference here? Can you see why this attitude is problematic?

If someone posted shit like "black people act so savage and ghetto" and then argued that most of their experiences with black people (and all of their friends' experiences) led them to this attitude, would you accept that as okay? Hopefully the answer is "hell no, that's racist as shit." Well, sorry, but your whole "women are predictable and irrational" thing is sexist as shit, no matter how you got there.

I just was reading an askreddit thread where transgendered people post how people treat them differently. Time and time again, you read that they are treated more seriously as males - FTM or MTF, doesn't matter, presenting as male gets you taken seriously in day to day encounters.  Your attitude in this thread is part of the problem that wears down at women day in and day out, in small and big ways, in our careers and personal encounters. You can brush this off, claim that we're all being too sensitive, whatever. I used to have a similar attitude. I grew out of it over time as I learned more compassion and I hope that you do too and stop insulting women with your generalizations. Even if you don't, I hope somebody reading this finds it useful.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #72 on: May 14, 2018, 06:49:31 AM »
Besides, if you think men are going to stop being pigs anytime soon. . . well come on lets be realistic here. We are who we are.
Okay, so you are sexist against both men and women. I think that's a pretty bad thing to be! Lots of men aren't pigs, and lots of women aren't emotional crazyheads. Why not just... stop making bad generalities that offend people? There's plenty of room to give good advice without insulting entire swaths of the population.

Also, I want to address one of your early posts, and I hope that at least if this doesn't convince you to stop, it may help some fencesitters with their mindset. This:
Quote
Want to spend a few minutes being critical of men?
is not a good way of dealing with sexism. Not just because it's stupid to tear down whole genders, but because of the fact that overt and covert misogynism in our history has led to power dynamics that disadvantage women in numerous ways. As an analogy (albeit an extreme one), imagine that you say "black people are n*ggers" and then go on to post "hey, want to call me a cracker? I can take it!" The reason you don't care that people hate on men is specifically because you don't have to deal with that shit impacting your life in important ways the same way that women do. You can take it, not because you're this wonderful rational thick-skinned person, but because it really doesn't matter to you in a very essential way. Same thing with men who say that they can handle being catcalled (or worse, they would LOVE to be catcalled), why can't women handle it? Can you see the difference here? Can you see why this attitude is problematic?

If someone posted shit like "black people act so savage and ghetto" and then argued that most of their experiences with black people (and all of their friends' experiences) led them to this attitude, would you accept that as okay? Hopefully the answer is "hell no, that's racist as shit." Well, sorry, but your whole "women are predictable and irrational" thing is sexist as shit, no matter how you got there.

I just was reading an askreddit thread where transgendered people post how people treat them differently. Time and time again, you read that they are treated more seriously as males - FTM or MTF, doesn't matter, presenting as male gets you taken seriously in day to day encounters.  Your attitude in this thread is part of the problem that wears down at women day in and day out, in small and big ways, in our careers and personal encounters. You can brush this off, claim that we're all being too sensitive, whatever. I used to have a similar attitude. I grew out of it over time as I learned more compassion and I hope that you do too and stop insulting women with your generalizations. Even if you don't, I hope somebody reading this finds it useful.

This wins best post of the day. 

(where is that thread so I can make it official?  I know it exists but I can't find it).

Rightflyer

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #73 on: May 14, 2018, 07:28:25 AM »
As 50-something male in a long (read looonng) term committed heterosexual relationship I have to comment.

There are a lot of females here that have jumped down some male posters' throats for making comments deemed to be misogynist.

First off. The moderator fucked up. The post up-thread in question may have been rough but it was not misogynist. Calling it so weakens the word misogyny. The moderator shouldn't have been so quick to make a judgement.

Second, certain women here are showing that they are thin-skinned and intolerant of world views that don't match their own. Maybe try being a little more respectful of others views... especially if they clash with your own.

Thirdly, the constant drive to Political Correctness is squelching conversations that could be more productive. So, ladies (and their male supporters), you might want to listen and ask questions before jumping on the "righteously, pissed-off feminist" bandwagon.
You might learn something.

Lastly, for the "feminists" getting riled up. Give it a rest. Feminism won. You have equality. Sexism, in any institutional sense, exists only in your head.








 

DarkandStormy

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2018, 07:31:09 AM »
Second, certain women here are showing that they are thin-skinned and intolerant of world views that don't match their own. Maybe try being a little more respectful of others views... especially if they clash with your own.

Pot(s) meet kettle.

haflander

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #75 on: May 14, 2018, 08:04:48 AM »
1. flyer, I have an idea. Show this to your SO. If she thinks that nothing is wrong with the statements of KTG, likes the way that women were described, and is cool with your statement, then I'd sure be surprised. Evidence (prob isn't possible, Idk) would be even better!

2. Do you know how many of the protesters are female? Click on the profiles, it may surprise you. I find it funny and ironic that you think those opposing sexism against women are surely women.

3. Mods have chimed in twice now. For the second time, it had nothing to do with sexism, but rather just being mean, disrespectful, crude. I think that was the result of people disagreeing with KTG, so he defaulted to acting that way. He says he's not mad and is in it for the laughs...if that's the truth, then why is he cursing that way? I'd guess that the two mod comments were from two different mods.

4. I don't see much from KTG that I'd call productive. A few constructive things in his original comment, sure. His long comment on the history of mankind sure was interesting, but I don't see how it relates to the discussion (count me in agreement with poundwise, gypsy, whipple, Ra63). No reason to respect many of his comments. What I'd call productive is that those four and several others have opposed his other disparaging comments... showing all (including OP) that there are many who disagree with KTG's views.

5. If you think there's complete equality in our society and the world you don't have much objectivity or awareness...therefore, it would make me look foolish to spend much more time arguing with you.

arebelspy

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Re: Just some ended relationship venting...
« Reply #76 on: May 14, 2018, 08:30:02 AM »
MOD NOTE:

I'm locking the thread. There's nothing this adds to the MMM forums.


First off. The moderator fucked up. The post up-thread in question may have been rough but it was not misogynist. Calling it so weakens the word misogyny. The moderator shouldn't have been so quick to make a judgement.

Not only was the post misogynistic, the poster continue to double and triple down by "explaining" how it wasn't with more rampant sexism.


Thirdly, the constant drive to Political Correctness is squelching conversations that could be more productive.

Here's the thing. We allow all kinds of views, as long as the person expressing them isn't being an asshole.

The problem is, people who are blatantly racist, sexist, etc. are assholes. And they can't help but be so when they explain their views.

These are, by definition not productive conversations in the first place.  I agree with you, the conversations could be productive. But instead, they aren't. And at that point, we step in and say "knock it the hell off."

Sometimes the conversations are productive, because someone presents their viewpoint in a tolerant way, explaining what they actually think, without being an asshole, and other people counter, and people learn. Or don't. But they aren't dicks about it. That wasn't the case here.

If you don't like the forum rules, and feel like being an asshole is a right, or that "political correctness" causing us to censor assholes is a bad thing, feel free to find another forum where you can have "productive" conversations where people trash people who they view as inferior.




Anyone who has further comments, or objections to the thread lock, feel free to PM me or another moderator.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 08:31:38 AM by arebelspy »
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