Author Topic: Sign SPLC petition: President Trump take responsibility for unleashed hate...  (Read 6732 times)

FinallyAwake

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If anyone is interested in signing the petition, it can be found at the SPLC's website.

Alternatively, here is the link:  https://www.splcenter.org/tell-president-trump-take-responsibility-hate-hes-unleashed

Update: President Trump gave a speech condemning the Neo Nazis, et al this evening.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 10:13:25 PM by FinallyAwake »

T-Money$

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Right wing political terrorism existed long before Trump came to office.

I'm not sure it's accurate or reasonable to blame him or have him take responsibility.

Double standards and bias seem pretty common with all the hysteria.  What is finding a scapegoat going to do?  Reduce the number of future racists?

A good article about left and right wing terrorism and the accurate prediction that something like this would happen was on NPR a couple months ago:

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/533255619/fact-check-is-left-wing-violence-rising

"This is a dangerous game; people are going to die. No one's died yet, but it's just a matter of time," says J.J. McNabb, an expert on political extremism at George Washington University.

I find it absurd anyone would want to play this game, and question anyone's decision process who found themselves on that Charlottesville street that day. 

SPLC does some good work, it's a shame they only spring into action when it fits their agenda. 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 04:03:34 PM by egillespie »

scottish

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Sure, but...   Trump hasn't been helping.    Encouraging people to beat up hecklers at his rallies.    Making racist statements about Islamics, Mexicans and other immigrants.   Saying police brutality is ok.

He's just sending the wrong message.    It doesn't matter if it's the black bloc or the skinheads.   Riots aren't going to make things better.

dycker1978

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Never mind all of the hate directed to the LGBT, especially trans folks. 

Followed by his lack of a response to this, if this was a group of people that could advance his agenda, he would be all over it.  Trump may not be completely at fault for causing this situation, but he does seem to breed hate.

FinallyAwake

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egillespie:  Thanks for the good link and discussion.  I agree that he isn't specifically to blame, but his weak words on the matter help give an air of legitimacy to those on the fringe.  He had a big opportunity to condemn the haters, and, in my mind, he blew it..

**********************************************

At any rate, it looks like he did finally give a direct condemnation this evening: 

    "And as I have said many times before, no matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws. We all salute the same great flag. And we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hated, bigotry and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our constitution."



I am grateful for the speech.  But how much more impact would those words have had if they had been made two days ago?

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/14/543418468/trump-calls-out-kkk-white-supremacists-after-charlottesville-racism-is-evil

WhiteTrashCash

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I am absolutely horrified by what happened in Virginia, but I am not at all surprised by it. Over the past few years, I have seen extremism explode on both sides of the political spectrum in the United States. I watched wacko fringe Conspiracy Theorism, White Nationalism, and Xenophobia overwhelm the Right while at the same time I watched the Democratic Party get crushed by what can only be described as Anti-Capitalist Anti-Theist Socialism bordering on Communism.

I had to block my own uncle from Hillbilly Mountain on social media because he kept posting profanity-laden rants about Mexican rapists and Sharia Law. I had to also block friends from the Flatlands for posting memes calling for the violent stabbing murder of racists. People are out for blood and now they have it.

At one point, a friend of mine posted a meme with a photo of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. with the caption "Tried to resist nonviolently. Got killed anyway." I was shocked and appalled that was all that they got out of the life's work of America's greatest civil rights hero who also happens to be one of the most widely admired and respected Christian martyrs of the 20th century. But this is where we are right now.

Americans are unwilling to put in the work to bridge the divides between one another. Instead, they just want to categorize people into neat little groups which they can then dehumanize and violently attack. It feels good to them to just label entire races or religions as "evil", because then those races and religions are no longer people and you can feel just dandy about annihilating them.

As a society, America has allowed this to happen. We turned Nazis and Communists into video game villains and characters in Hollywood comedies. Despite all the film and photographic evidence we have, we chose not to show our children the true horrors of the Holocaust or the state-sanctioned murders perpetrated by the Soviet Union, so the children grew up thinking everything was a joke. They share jokes about throwing Jews in ovens. Kids have even laughed at the deaths of 3,000 people on 9/11 directly to my face.

What are we doing to ourselves in America? Why have we failed our people so badly that we have become completely blind to our nation's history? Why have we allowed ourselves to lose our sense of compassion for our fellow human beings?

FinallyAwake

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I am absolutely horrified by what happened in Virginia, but I am not at all surprised by it. Over the past few years, I have seen extremism explode on both sides of the political spectrum in the United States. I watched wacko fringe Conspiracy Theorism, White Nationalism, and Xenophobia overwhelm the Right while at the same time I watched the Democratic Party get crushed by what can only be described as Anti-Capitalist Anti-Theist Socialism bordering on Communism.

I had to block my own uncle from Hillbilly Mountain on social media because he kept posting profanity-laden rants about Mexican rapists and Sharia Law. I had to also block friends from the Flatlands for posting memes calling for the violent stabbing murder of racists. People are out for blood and now they have it.

At one point, a friend of mine posted a meme with a photo of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. with the caption "Tried to resist nonviolently. Got killed anyway." I was shocked and appalled that was all that they got out of the life's work of America's greatest civil rights hero who also happens to be one of the most widely admired and respected Christian martyrs of the 20th century. But this is where we are right now.

Americans are unwilling to put in the work to bridge the divides between one another. Instead, they just want to categorize people into neat little groups which they can then dehumanize and violently attack. It feels good to them to just label entire races or religions as "evil", because then those races and religions are no longer people and you can feel just dandy about annihilating them.

As a society, America has allowed this to happen. We turned Nazis and Communists into video game villains and characters in Hollywood comedies. Despite all the film and photographic evidence we have, we chose not to show our children the true horrors of the Holocaust or the state-sanctioned murders perpetrated by the Soviet Union, so the children grew up thinking everything was a joke. They share jokes about throwing Jews in ovens. Kids have even laughed at the deaths of 3,000 people on 9/11 directly to my face.

What are we doing to ourselves in America? Why have we failed our people so badly that we have become completely blind to our nation's history? Why have we allowed ourselves to lose our sense of compassion for our fellow human beings?

WTC:  I just want to encourage you.  I hear the pain in your words, and, as an empath, I feel it, too.  I'm from a redneck-y area, and was surprised (or maybe not?) to see my hometown has a chapter for one of these hate groups.  Undoubtedly, there are people I love, worked with, or cared for as a nurse who are a part of this group.  It saddens me to know there is such an undercurrent of hate; even more so to think I lived in it. 

But I also know that haters are the minority.  They are the fringe, but that's why they are getting the attention.  I wish I had more courage to stand up and speak out.  I hate confrontation, and speaking out just invites all kinds of confrontation!  :)  But I pledge to do better.  And maybe, those of us in the middle- like you and me- will start getting louder and our voices will make a difference.

The very least I can do is to raise my family in an environment that encourages love and understanding for people who don't look like them, or vote like them, or love differently than them.  So, there are at least 4 more little LOVERSnothaters that will be employed and voting in this world in the next few years.  I'm hopeful their generation will do better than ours.

dycker1978

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I just want to add something else to this.  Due to some family circumstances, my eyes have been opened to the plight of LGBT people, especially those who identify as transgender, or some form of gender diverse.  The hatred that they face is intense at times.  I have seen it myself, in the form of Facebook message death threats.

In time like that, or what was faced in this riot, people seem to need to respond to violence, with violence.  I understand that, as I have been faced with similar thoughts.   But I know, deep down, that the only real way to stop these injustices, is to love in the face of hate.  Stand up for what you believe to be right with love.  That is all you can do, that is all that will work.

Roland of Gilead

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As a society, America has allowed this to happen. We turned Nazis and Communists into video game villains and characters in Hollywood comedies. Despite all the film and photographic evidence we have, we chose not to show our children the true horrors of the Holocaust or the state-sanctioned murders perpetrated by the Soviet Union, so the children grew up thinking everything was a joke. They share jokes about throwing Jews in ovens. Kids have even laughed at the deaths of 3,000 people on 9/11 directly to my face.

Really it was happening even before video games.   As a country, the USA shat all over the native Americans already living here.  While we didn't make them slaves, we forced them off their land and marched them to reservations far away in some cases.  A lot of them died.

I see the current protesters pulling down Confederate statues while the police and city stand by watching, I guess because they feel it is justified, but I wonder that the native Americans should have a similar right to pull down the Washington Monument.

DarkandStormy

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Trump was correct - there was blame to go around on all sides.  And I certainly don't blame Trump.  Haters are gonna hate.

https://news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-full-episode-charlottesville-race-and-terror

Only a Nazi killed someone in Charlottesville.

Only Nazis are calling for "ethnic cleansing."

Only Nazis see anyone who isn't a straight, white man as sub-human.

There is only one side.

dycker1978

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It seems to be in my opinion, when a whit Nazi does something like this, people are quick to point out that it is one guy, or a small minority of people, but yet when a ISIS radicle drives a truck through people, it is ban Muslims. 

I don't understand.  This was a group of Nazis and KKK.  Why is there such an issue calling it what it is, domestic terrorism?  If these were people with a darker skin completion then  they have, it would be ISIS and ban Muslims. 

This in itself is racist.  This is what is breeding this... in my opinion.

Kris

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It seems to be in my opinion, when a whit Nazi does something like this, people are quick to point out that it is one guy, or a small minority of people, but yet when a ISIS radicle drives a truck through people, it is ban Muslims. 

I don't understand.  This was a group of Nazis and KKK.  Why is there such an issue calling it what it is, domestic terrorism?  If these were people with a darker skin completion then  they have, it would be ISIS and ban Muslims. 

This in itself is racist.  This is what is breeding this... in my opinion.

Yup.

DarkandStormy

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Trump was right all along.

Which Trump was right - his Saturday "on many sides" speech or the one yesterday when he condemned the KKK, Neo-Nazis, and white supremacists?

Trump:
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The candidate said he would have fought the person had he reached the lectern and mimed punching him a few times.

"I'll beat the crap out of you," he then mouthed.

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"Part of the problem ... is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore."

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"The audience hit back. That's what we need a little bit more of."

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"Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court, don't worry about it."

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"I'd like to punch him in the face."

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"If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously." He again promised to pay for any legal fees associated with an assault.

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After a Black Lives Matter activist was kicked, punched and, he said, called the N-word at a campaign event in Birmingham, Alabama, in November, Trump expressed his approval.

"Maybe he should have been roughed up because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing," the now frontrunner for the GOP presidential nomination told Fox & Friends the next day.

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"I don’t know if I’ll do the fighting myself or if other people will."

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On Aug. 9, Trump made comments at a North Carolina rally suggesting "Second Amendment people" could take action against Hillary Clinton if she were elected.

^Yes, he seems to be a very peaceful leader who goes out of his way to condemn violence all the time.  Oh wait, he's the exact opposite.  What a joke.

WhiteTrashCash

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As a society, America has allowed this to happen. We turned Nazis and Communists into video game villains and characters in Hollywood comedies. Despite all the film and photographic evidence we have, we chose not to show our children the true horrors of the Holocaust or the state-sanctioned murders perpetrated by the Soviet Union, so the children grew up thinking everything was a joke. They share jokes about throwing Jews in ovens. Kids have even laughed at the deaths of 3,000 people on 9/11 directly to my face.

Really it was happening even before video games.   As a country, the USA shat all over the native Americans already living here.  While we didn't make them slaves, we forced them off their land and marched them to reservations far away in some cases.  A lot of them died.

I see the current protesters pulling down Confederate statues while the police and city stand by watching, I guess because they feel it is justified, but I wonder that the native Americans should have a similar right to pull down the Washington Monument.

I'm both white and Native (like many white trash), so I get kind of annoyed by the paternalistic attitude of the modern ultra-left wingers that white people came along and slaughtered the peaceful hippy tree-hugging Natives and then exterminated them and stole all their land because obviously white people are the Devil incarnate. The reality (at least in my little area of the country) was that Natives and white people fought with each other and killed each other because people are human beings who do both good and bad things. Hell, the worst slaughters of the tribe I'm descended from were perpetrated not by whites but by a rival tribe. My Native ancestors absolutely were guilty of killing women and children and stealing and destroying the property of white settlers. The whites did the same since they certainly weren't saints, but they also didn't deserve to be murdered.

Historically, the fighting eventually stopped and everybody intermarried and that was the end of the situation, which just goes to show you that war is stupid and people fall in love all the time.

Today, Americans seem to have the attitude that this group of people have their culture and these other people have their culture and never should the two cross or connect, which blows my fucking mind because if people had had that attitude in the past then I wouldn't even exist. We seem to have lost the ability to see the humanity in each other and instead we see separate identities which are all isolated from each other with labels of either oppressor or oppressed increasing in intensity as we go along. I hear that this concept is called "intersectionality" or the "Victimhood Olympics". Whoever is the most aggrieved gets the gold medal.

We have lost a grown-up understanding of history which is that both good and bad things happened in the past and nobody is free from sin (except for Christ according to my religion.) We need to stop blaming everybody for our problems and look for solutions together as a people.

Up on Hillbilly Mountain, everybody is offended that old industries have become obsolete and they aren't getting new jobs handed to them on a silver platter, but they are completely unwilling to get educated and learn new skills or start their own businesses or take advantage of the miracles of technology that exist in the 21st century. They fall into the trap of thinking that they have no agency and the only way to advance oneself is to demand things from other people. This is a self-defeating and destructive attitude for anybody to have.

People advance themselves by taking charge of their lives and making the changes that will lead to success. The White Supremacists in Virginia are like little children demanding that others should "give me this" or "give me that". Crying because the world is changing and they are too cowardly or weak to change with it. We are right to be disgusted by their childish antics and their fear that they project as fury. What a pathetic group of losers.

DarkandStormy

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Haters are gonna hate.  That's what they do.

You understand the Neo-Nazis/Alt-Right/KKK/White Supremacist Terrorists "hate" everyone who isn't a straight, white man?  They hate people because of factors out of their control - skin color, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.  Watch that Vice News clip and the interviews.  These people want "ethnic cleansing" because they view anyone who isn't white as "barbaric" by nature.

While I don't agree with the violent nature of some of the BLM protests, you surely must understand that their "hatred" of the Alt-Right/Nazis is because of their views.  Also, BLM started because INNOCENT black children and teenagers were being gunned down at an alarming rate by police (especially when compared to their white counterparts).  At its core (at least the good people), BLM is about equality.  That's what they want.  And anyone disagreeing with that in 2017 is an outright idiot and racist.  Like I said, the means of the protests - any violence or destruction of property - I disagree with.

If you can't see the difference, there's no hope for you.  This is such an easy thing to do - condemn Nazis - but you're here spouting what-about-isms.

DarkandStormy

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About everything else you posted is off-topic and has nothing to do with this incident.  BLM, Muslims, past presidential campaign rally comments, etc.  But whatever makes you feel better.

If you're talking about me, I don't like Nazi's, Isis, BLM, Al Queda, or any other terrorist group.

LOL

DarkandStormy

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Why do you think that I think otherwise just because I said "Haters are gonna hate"?  Strange.

The basis of each group is very different.  Not hard to understand.

Mississippi Mudstache

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I don't give a shit whether or not Trump denounces the racists who marched in his name on Saturday. Any disavowal (like the one we saw yesterday) is nothing more than a meaningless, canned response to satiate the Republicans on Capitol Hill. His alt-right supporters are well aware that he doesn't mean it, and so am I. If you want to know what he really feels, then read his tweets or listen to his off-the-cuff remarks. You will never see Trump will never give an honest condemnation of white nationalism, because he's one of them.

dycker1978

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That is just it though, epically with the campaign.  All of the hatred that was preached by Trump during it, made those who believe this feel like they had a victory themselves.  Like the hate that was being said is OK, because he won.

It is much like the video of David Duke after this incident saying, basically, thanks for the support Trump.  Perception in 9/10's of this.  Trump is full of hate.  Build a wall, to the trans military ban, to banning Muslims entering the country.  How do you expect those who already believe this hate to see it.

This is the result of Trumps actions.  Hate as always been here, and always will, but Trump has given them permission to do it publicly, by his actions.

DarkandStormy

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https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-lashes-alt-left-charlottesville-says-fine-people-204005828--abc-news-topstories.html

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President Donald Trump lashed out about the criticism of his initial statement about the Charlottesville violence today and quickly went on to blame both sides of protestors for the conflict, adding that there were “very fine people” in both the group of white supremacists and white nationalists as well as the counterprotesters.

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"When you say the alt-right, you define it. Go ahead. Define it for me," he said.
"What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt-right? Do they have any assemblage of guilt? What about the fact that they came charging with clubs in their hands swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do," he said.

He is a delusional maniac.

DoubleDown

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This just in from Trump, blaming the so-called alt-Left for attacking the Neo-Nazis:

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"They were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee..."

-President Donald J. Trump

Well that's one way to characterize a mob of white supremacists, Neo-Nazis, and KKK members carrying torches, and armed with weapons, shields, and helmets, marching through the streets of Charlottesville at night chanting, "Our Blood, Our Soil!" (a Nazi ideology) and "Jews will not replace us!"
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 04:47:44 PM by DoubleDown »

RangerOne

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Well part of the problem with Trump is he will never walk back anything he says, even if it was short sighted, stupid or blatantly false. If you press him to do so you will be meet with more outlandish statements.

You can have whatever opinion you like about black lives matter or left wing protests. But one thing we generally universally agree to do is condemn white supremacists, neo-nazi's and now the alt-right(which at best are nazi sympathizers even if some have been tricked into thinking it is a more noble and logical organization) in so far as they believe in the general preserving of the "purity" of white euro people and their need to have their own country(segregation)... Maybe they want to achieve this by moving all the minorities and colors to their own state and splitting the government. Still pretty fucking bad and essentially saying that American culture belongs to whites.

Trump directly avoided condemning the white supremacist groups that showed up. These groups have always held marches and almost always there is violence. That generally happens when you show up in the street  bearing symbols of groups that killed masses of black and Jewish people like cattle because of a belief in superiority. These are clearly defined hate groups and one thing we are never supposed to give them is validation.

Trump did exactly that and it was fucked up and wrong. And he continues to do it when pressed. From a voting perspective I can't blame him, its part of how he won. This is a non trivial portion of his base. But when a group shows up in force with weapons displaying symbols of hate which we fought world wars over you fucking condemn those groups by name because to do less and equate them with the counter protesters is telling them that their ideology is good and valid.

If Americans want to seriously defend confederate monuments you should try doing it without allowing members to bear two of the greatest hate symbols in our history, KKK clan garments and Nazi symbols. You want to defend a confederate monument as a symbol of American history and family pride if you are from the south. If you want to say its not about racism, why show up with people praising our most racist historical symbols?

These are literally symbols that call for ethnic cleansing or segregation at best of all non white people. You literally have started a fight just by showing up bearing those symbols with pride.

The alt-right has come up with some slicker more PC lines of thought to draw in new members, and I don't think all those people there are irredeemable. We do need to show as much restraint as possible in not countering their hate without violence. But we also need to not let a new generation of white supremacists be tricked into believing this new alt right pro anglo euro ideology is some new friendlier kind of nazi ideology.

FrugalToque

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MOD NOTE:  TOPIC LOCKED

This is obviously going to turn into a shit show, and after cleaning up that 4% Rule thread, I've had enough of shit shows for the night.

Suffice it to say:
There is no equivalency between the guys carrying god-damned swastika flags, advocating white supremacy and genocide to the point where one of their followers is now charged with murder, and the people protesting against them.

We won't have that in our forum.

Not only is it off-topic, it's absolutely reprehensible.