Author Topic: Is there a dog backlash coming?  (Read 3672 times)

stoaX

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Is there a dog backlash coming?
« on: December 29, 2017, 02:15:23 PM »
Inspired by this thread, but not wanting to hijack it, I gotta ask "is there a dog owner backlash coming?".
 
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/attacked-by-two-pit-bulls-wwyd/msg1830981/?topicseen#msg1830981

The number of friendly and not friendly off-leash dogs running up to me while I'm out walking or running...the amount of droppings left by dogs with irresponsible owners..  it's driving me nuts.  I hope the rates of dog ownership begin to decline, or that behavior of owners collectively improves. 

Cassie

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 02:24:17 PM »
The problem with dog ownership declining is that we already kill between 1 -2 million animals a year because there are no homes.  WE have rescue dogs and I have been attacked by unleashed vicious dogs.  One attack was so bad that I would be dead if I had been walking home alone that day instead of with my DH. As big an animal lover as I am I insisted the dog be put down. Yes there are bad owners.   Where we live people adopt more animals then most parts of the country.

stoaX

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 02:37:06 PM »
The problem with dog ownership declining is that we already kill between 1 -2 million animals a year because there are no homes.  WE have rescue dogs and I have been attacked by unleashed vicious dogs.  One attack was so bad that I would be dead if I had been walking home alone that day instead of with my DH. As big an animal lover as I am I insisted the dog be put down. Yes there are bad owners.   Where we live people adopt more animals then most parts of the country.

Being a rescue dog owner is quite admirable!  And sorry to hear about the attacks you've experienced.  I wish leash laws would be enforced but I suppose it's not that high on the police department's priority list. 

Cassie

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2017, 02:46:37 PM »
I am 63 and over my life I have been attacked 3x's. A few years ago my son could not keep his old 80lb husky/shepherd mix and we drove across the country to get it. A week later I am walking him and my small dog and a pit off leash starts to attacks me.  The old guy fought like nothing I have ever seen before. Finally the owner comes over and pulls the dog off of him.  I was really glad I drove to get that dog I can tell you.  WE like Maltese and it is amazing that people buy expensive dogs and then decide to take them to the shelter.  WE have had 4 dogs for the past 13 years but are downsizing by natural attrition for a few reasons.  It is a ton of work, even some RV parks won't take 4 dogs and it is so expensive between vet bills and meds when they get old.  Before 2 of ours died we were spending 400/month on dog meds alone.  Also vets are more expensive in this part of the country. I wish more people realized that rescue dogs are great animals.

BlueMR2

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 08:09:11 AM »
I hope the rates of dog ownership begin to decline, or that behavior of owners collectively improves.

Same here.  While a few people still get dogs for general companionship, which I think is a good reason, the majority I run across buy them as weapons.  You're better off buying a gun.  The risks are lower.  I'd accept a general ban on dog ownership long before one on firearms!

I had a dog as a child and loved it dearly.  However, I realize now how dangerous it was even with just a mid-sized dog, nevermind the horse sized "assault dogs" that are all the rage these days.  I'm also the victim of multiple dog attacks over the years (none did lasting damage to my body, but even a dog bark a couple houses away sets my pulse racing now).

lizzzi

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 09:24:07 AM »
I don't know about a dog backlash, but I know for myself that I will not get another dog after Bandit. He and I are a "pack", and I'm totally committed to keeping him for the next 12 or 14 years, but there are definite downsides to having a dog--for me, it's mainly that it ties me down so much, but there's no denying the expense, too. Travel is just about impossible unless I pay a fortune for his boarding--and I don't really want to board him anyway. So I'm just living the dog lifestyle here with my beta dog in our den. We eat, sleep, play, walk outside, and poop. Life is good. (I do a bit of creative work from home, in between being a pack member.)

I see two trends with dog owners out in the community. There are the people who want the aggressive breeds, like the pitts, dobermans, rottweilers, and such. Some are anti-social and irresponsible, some are OK.  Then there are the people who get cute, small dogs, and sometimes I think try to humanize them and be too lovey-dovey with them. Not sure what I think of these precious little wubby-boo-boos with bows in their hair and designer dog sweaters. Ya gotta love 'em though. While rolling your eyes.

Thank goodness there does seem to be a third type of dog owner,--although not as common these days-- who gets some kind of pleasant, ordinary dog (whatever that is--maybe a mixed breed from the pound, or from a friend whose pet had pups) and treats it well--probably like a lesser family member--but still treats it like a dog, in a common sense, responsible way.

I do think dog ownership works best when there is somebody home all day with the dog. I was raised in a family that always had dogs, but also it was a large extended family, and there was always somebody around to take care of the dog. We never went away on vacations--boarding was unheard of. And our dogs were outside a lot, although always under control. (On chains in yard, or on chains in fenced yards, or being walked on leashes. We trained them as 4-H projects, so a lot of obedience lessons in 4-H and in dog shows at the county fair.) I see so many dogs whose owners work all day, and the dog is pretty much left alone. I see that in my apartment complex all the time. The dogs seem OK, but I think it is a pretty thin life for them. They only get outside to relieve themselves before and after the owners' workday, and before bed. (And not all owners scoop the poop. Annoying beyond words.) For the most part, I don't see these dogs being walked or getting much fresh air and exercise. I didn't get a dog until I was out of the workforce, and I think Bandit has a much better quality of life than most of the dogs in our complex. We are outside for around two to two and a half hours a day, between potty breaks and longer walks--very weather dependent, of course--and there is a lot of play time indoors with the toys. It's good for both of us, I think.

Dog backlash? The trouble is, there are so many different kinds of dogs and owners. It is so hard to quantify. I was always neutral about pitt bulls, but after the attack on Christmas Eve, have to say that now I dislike them and wish they would be banned in the States as they are in some other places. I know that's not fair to the good ones, but they cause so many problems--injuries, deaths--of both people and small animals--that I think we should just phase out pit bull ownership. Just stop breeding them, and let the breed die off by attrition. (I know this opinion will bring on the Wrath of Khan, but after what Bandit and I went through, that is just how I feel.)



Just Joe

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2017, 01:05:55 PM »
Good post lizzzi.

We count our family as the third type you described. Friendly dog, very socialized, well mannered.

The biggest problem around here are the people who get a dog and then don't want to do the work of having a dog i.e. spending time with it and the dog spends alot of time alone, outside, chained to something.

I wonder if the "weaponized dogs" are a bigger situation in the cities where its cool to look dangerous.

Out here in flyover country dogs are more likely to be sporting dogs or toy dogs (seldom outside for long).

BookLoverL

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2017, 01:42:19 PM »
I enjoy walking, and in the past I've often encountered dogs off-leash on public footpaths - sometimes in gardens where the gate has been left open so the dog can escape, sometimes with the owner following along so far behind that they're out of sight, calling, "Don't worry, he's friendly!", and sometimes even all by themselves. I get on relatively well with specific people's dogs that I am introduced to in their house, but each time I encounter a dog by itself outdoors, I'm mildly terrified, because I wonder if this will be the dog that decides to chase me. I don't know anything about it or how it was trained.

I've often thought that I'd be in favour of some kind of dog licence people needed to have in order to own a dog, so they could prove they could train and handle it properly, similarly to how people have to pass a driving test to drive the dangerous vehicle known as a car. It wouldn't solve the problem completely, but it'd sure cut down on some of the worst behaviour.

Please, please, if you're a dog owner, put your dog on a lead if you're in a public area, and make sure it can't get through your fences on your property. If only for the sake of my nerves.
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BlueMR2

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 08:13:37 AM »
that I think we should just phase out pit bull ownership. Just stop breeding them, and let the breed die off by attrition. (I know this opinion will bring on the Wrath of Khan, but after what Bandit and I went through, that is just how I feel.)

I agree and my childhood dog was a pit bull.  Friendliest thing ever, but the breed as a whole is very high risk.  I would also, from personal experience, add Rotts, Boxers, German Shepherds, Labrador Retrievers, and Collies to the list of ones that should be phased out immediately.

I'm also now very strongly anti-rescue dog (even though mine was a rescue dog).  Rescue dogs are just too likely to have issues and suddenly snap/go bad on you compared to one raise from a pup in a loving home.  Not usually a problem for the owner, but very high risk for strangers or even guests in the home.  It's sad, but there's no place in modern society for dogs that have a high probability of not being trustworthy around people. 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 08:16:11 AM by BlueMR2 »

Sibley

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 08:32:37 AM »
...I think we should just phase out pit bull ownership. Just stop breeding them, and let the breed die off by attrition. (I know this opinion will bring on the Wrath of Khan, but after what Bandit and I went through, that is just how I feel.)

Not going to comment on your thought there, because I don't know what I think on that. But. Pit bull isn't a breed. It's a description applied to a dog with certain physical characteristics. There are several breeds of dog that fit that description. It's an important distinction.

More generally, I think we should stop breeding certain breeds of dogs because we're destroying them. The smushed in face dogs are an excellent example. It's not fair to the animal to breed them KNOWING that they'll have health issues. I much prefer mutts because a lot of the genetic issues have been diluted. They tend to be healthier than purebreds. (that goes for both dogs and cats. I'm a cat person.)

In the US, animals are beginning to be transported from the south to the north for adoption. I'm not sure how large the numbers are, but I used to volunteer at a small animal shelter and 80%+ of their dogs were brought north. Due to lower rates of spay/neuter in certain regions combined with warmer winters, there are just more litters born in southern locales. We need to work on the spay/neuter rates in areas where they're low, which will help reduce overall numbers of animals.

Eventually, it should be possible to have a large enough net decrease that it'll make it harder to find animals to adopt. That in turn will discourage casual adopters from getting an animal, so the chances of animals not being properly trained/cared for/etc should drop.

Just Joe

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2017, 10:14:52 AM »
Why should Lab-Rs and Collies be banned?

Also, we've adopted five rescue dogs. No sweat. No problems. Help them build trust in the people around them and socialize them. All it has taken is alot of petting and playing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 10:16:55 AM by Just Joe »

Stachey

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2017, 11:22:49 AM »
Thank you for starting this thread.

I cannot count the number of times that I have been walking on a sidewalk or through a public park when a dog came charging at me, barking and snarling, making like they were going to bite my leg off.  In all of these cases, the dogs were NOT supposed to be off leash.  And in all of these cases, the owner did nothing to restrain their dog.  One idiot even had the nerve to tell me her dog was 'friendly' when it in the process of trying to bite my ankle off. 

Even when the dogs are on leashes, I have had very large dogs come at me in an exrtemely aggressive manner and the owners do nothing to restrain them or are in fact physically incapable of restraining such a large animal.  And when I get mad about it, the owners carry on like I am the unreasonable one.

I am sick of having to cross the road to walk on the other side of the street just to avoid dogs and their useless owners.  I'm sick of not being able to walk through a public park without some fucking animal charging at me and their owners standing there, doing nothing.
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SeaEhm

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2017, 11:33:33 AM »
Are dogs the problem or is the real problem the owners who think that everyone loves their dog as much as they love it?


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Wise Virgin

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2017, 12:19:57 PM »
I went to visit my sister once, who lived far away. She had lately taken to owning Akita dogs; at the time she had a large male.

I was properly introduced to the dog, which wagged its tail and seemed to be fine with me. I didn't try to pet it or anything, since I was a stranger. I went and sat on the sofa.

My sister left the room to do something. Immediately the dog bayed me and snarled, showing its teeth. I shouted for my sister who came in, grabbed the dog's collar, looked at me in dislike, and said, "What did you do to him?"

There is something very weird about owners of potentially vicious dogs.

My sister never said she was sorry for this, but her next dog was a Sheba, which looks similar but is quite small. And she socializes the heck out of it. It's a friendly little thing, though fatal to cats on sight.

iris lily

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2017, 12:25:14 PM »
“We should phase out” pitbull ownership.

Here in the’hood, the pitbull breeders are the same dudes who ignore gun laws.

Good luck with that phase out.

P.s. the assholes also engage in illegal dog fighting with their pitties.

But yeah, laws. If you mean by “phase out” social pressue, well, no responsible person has bred anything respembling a “pitbulll” since about 1990. But the ghetto dwellers, they use pits as capital.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 12:27:34 PM by iris lily »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2017, 02:51:58 PM »
Collies and Labs?  Collies or Shelties?  I have worked with vets and vet techs and these are not usually problem breeds. There are a lot of lab mixes around though, so the non-lab parent could be contributing to behavior problems.  Problem breeds that I have encountered - Rotties (and lots of nice ones), German Shepherds from Germany (the North American ones seem to be better behaved), Bouviers - a working/herding dog that protected livestock being taken to market, and can be very protective in an aggressive way.  Some terriers - I saw 2 Airedale dogs (males) almost get into a fight in the show ring, and a Scottie bit the judge when it was being judged for best in show.

Some of the herding dogs really want to herd, and can eye ankles a lot - can I herd this person?

Some of the one person breeds can be iffy - I am thinking Chows, Akitas, here.

I walk Missy on a Halti/Gentle Leader because she wants to be friends with everyone, and without it she will lunge at people so she can be with them (and get petted) sooner.  But she is a breed renowned for its friendliness and cuteness. 

I also get tired of people not picking up after their dogs, I don't want people to ban dogs totally because they are tired of dog poop.  I will pick up after other dogs just so things stay clean.
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Debonair

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2017, 11:47:11 PM »
Dogs are a bit of a problem in Taiwan too. They fall into a few categories ranging from well socialized to dangerous.

A big issue is lots of couples buy a puppy because it is cute and then lose interest. These dogs may be put up for adoption or just become a problem dog that hangs out around their house. My ex-wanted to get a dog for our little studio apartment. Part of her argument is I have had dogs before, yes I had hunting dogs in the USA where we had lots of space.

Some people also keep dogs to guard places. These can also be the cute puppy that the family just leaves to hang around the house now. They are infamous for trying to bite cooters and bicycles going by. Then the owners have the audacity to complain if you hurt one of their dogs.

The most dangerous are the packs of stray dogs you seem to find in the mountains or on bike trails. Dogs are probably the number one reason people buy pepper spray in Taiwan. I prefer wiping a nice good size stone at aggressive dogs.
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Hula Hoop

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2018, 02:38:32 AM »
I'm also not really a dog person and have had bad experiences with off leash dogs in parks and public places, particularly here in Italy where they seem really lax about this kind of thing.  I've taught my kids not to be scared of dogs but unfortunately my youngest is scared of big dogs and she is constantly being approached by off leash big dogs in the park that are (or used to be) taller than her.  The owners always say things like "she's a sweetheart - just being friendly" but to a 2 year old who weighs about a quarter of what the dog weighs a dog is quite intimidating even if s/he only wants to 'play".  And I won't even get started on the dog poo that is everywhere here.  I often see well dressed people allowing their dogs to poo in the middle of the side walk and then just continuing to walk along.  And during the summer when people like to go on vacation, thousands of dogs are just abandoned to fend for themselves.

Cassie

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2018, 10:23:53 AM »
In places like NYC where many live in apartments small dogs are the best fit.  We have been to Italy twice and saw very few dogs. No dog should be off leash in public big or small.  I hate when people do that.  Our shelter is full of pit mixes.  On the West Coast people are big pet owners and many have multiple pets.  We love their company and bought an RV just so we could take them on vacation with us.  At that point we had 4 dogs and no hotel would rent to us.  So if dog ownership is declining it is not in this part of the country.  I really wish we could close all the cruel, inhumane puppy mills. That would go a long way in solving the overpopulation problem.   The Amish are the biggest problem operating huge puppymills and then treating the dogs terribly.

Zamboni

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2018, 05:20:11 AM »
Meh, I prefer most dogs to most people.

I also bet the odds of being randomly mauled to death are way less than the odds one of your fellow humans will off you.

partgypsy

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2018, 11:11:54 AM »
Lizzie, I guess we would be the third type. All of our dogs were rescues, adopted either as puppies or 9 mos-1 year old. They ranged in size from 40 to 95 pounds, and except for the 95 lb black lab were a range of mixed breeds. Except for the 1 yr old dog (who had some pretty bad stuff happen to him, and took awhile to get adjusted) all of the dogs were good. One of them was a chow mix, but we got her as a puppy, and even my ex, whose family has had a number of dogs, said she was the best dog he's ever had. I think if you get a mix breed that doesn't have pit in it, esp as a puppy, really good chances for good animal companion. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 11:18:30 AM by partgypsy »

Cromacster

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2018, 11:31:27 AM »
Collies and Labs?  Collies or Shelties?  I have worked with vets and vet techs and these are not usually problem breeds. There are a lot of lab mixes around though, so the non-lab parent could be contributing to behavior problems.  Problem breeds that I have encountered - Rotties (and lots of nice ones), German Shepherds from Germany (the North American ones seem to be better behaved), Bouviers - a working/herding dog that protected livestock being taken to market, and can be very protective in an aggressive way.  Some terriers - I saw 2 Airedale dogs (males) almost get into a fight in the show ring, and a Scottie bit the judge when it was being judged for best in show.

Some of the herding dogs really want to herd, and can eye ankles a lot - can I herd this person?

Some of the one person breeds can be iffy - I am thinking Chows, Akitas, here.

I walk Missy on a Halti/Gentle Leader because she wants to be friends with everyone, and without it she will lunge at people so she can be with them (and get petted) sooner.  But she is a breed renowned for its friendliness and cuteness. 

I also get tired of people not picking up after their dogs, I don't want people to ban dogs totally because they are tired of dog poop.  I will pick up after other dogs just so things stay clean.

I think a lot of this also comes down to management by the owner.

Herding and rat dogs shouldn't be allowed to roam free unsupervised, especially around kids or other small animals.  Any dog bred with working/protection temperaments shouldn't be unsupervised ever (outside the home).  I'd imagine any dog in a show that showed aggressiveness toward another dog or bit a judge would be disqualified, am I correct?

Then I think as general public 2 things should become the norm. 

1) No, you can't pet my dog.  If you are a guest in my house feel free.  As stated by the poster above, this creates excited dogs.  While they may not have hurtful intentions, it's easy for a big excited dog to knock someone over or scratch them...etc.  And if it's an unknown dog don't pet it regardless, you don't know if has a bite history and owners seem conditioned to say yes even if they do.

2) No, my dog doesn't want to be friends with your dog.  Not sure there is a faster way to start a dog fight than two dogs on leash meeting nose to nose.

Don't even get me started on dog parks...

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partgypsy

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2018, 01:50:55 PM »
I disagree with those rules. Part of having a dog is socializing it so it doesn't get into fights with other dogs. My dog is highly protective while in our house/backyard, but part of his enjoyment of walks is being able to sniff and say hi to other dogs. I always ask the owner if the dog is friendly first, however. if someone wants to pet my dog, first of all he is old and not excitable, but if he was, I would have them sit first before being petted. I have taught my kids to NEVER approach a strange dog because you don't know how it will respond, and ASK the owner if the dog is friendly, ok to approach. I think all of this is part of socialization of dogs. Of course if the dog does have issues, yeah don't make other dogs, people guinea pigs. But otherwise, don't see the problem. A local dog trainer here does dog pack walks, where a bunch of dogs are walked at the same time, and there is time for the dogs to sniff each other, and I have joined those on a couple occasions.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 02:00:03 PM by partgypsy »

Champion5

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2018, 02:03:00 PM »
I don't post much on here but I've had several dogs in my life and I'm at the point now where I no longer want a large breed dog also.
Family has had labs, a german shepherd, corgies, poodles, mix breeds, golden retriever and a brittany. All were well trained and never had major problems. I got my german shepherd when i was 16 or 17 years old. He was an awesome dog when he was younger. He was around all the neighborhood kids and I took him everywhere (buddies had land and lake houses we went to and partied almost every weekend). As he aged, he started getting grumpy around kids that were at his eye level. I was walking him, on a leash, and some neighborhood kids wanted to pet him. There were three or four of them there. Since he never had a problem I said sure. He was fine until one kid (maybe 6-7 years old) came up behind him and grabbed his tail. The dog (110lbs) turned around and grabbed him. Luckily he only got the shirt, and ripped the sleeve right off. Kid ran inside crying and I hustle to take the dog to my backyard. I went back to apologized and check on the kid. His parents were reaming his butt for running up to a strangers dog and messing with it. Couldn't believe it but from that point on I politely declined when peoples kids wanted to pet him. I had my first kid when the dog was 11 and in pretty bad shape. Still kept him apart in a different part of the house till he past less than a year later. My wife had the golden and was perfect with kids. When he passed over a year ago I swore off large breeds and got a brittany. Hes doing very well (and maxed out at 35lbs yea!) with my two kids and all the neighbors kids as well. I walk him on a leash but on our back neighborhood streets he, along with all the other neighbors dogs, plays out front unleashed. New neighbors moved in about six months ago that have a six year old girl and a two year old son. They just got two german shepherds who are already massive.

Cromacster

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2018, 03:13:34 PM »
I disagree with those rules. Part of having a dog is socializing it so it doesn't get into fights with other dogs. My dog is highly protective while in our house/backyard, but part of his enjoyment of walks is being able to sniff and say hi to other dogs. I always ask the owner if the dog is friendly first, however. if someone wants to pet my dog, first of all he is old and not excitable, but if he was, I would have them sit first before being petted. I have taught my kids to NEVER approach a strange dog because you don't know how it will respond, and ASK the owner if the dog is friendly, ok to approach. I think all of this is part of socialization of dogs. Of course if the dog does have issues, yeah don't make other dogs, people guinea pigs. But otherwise, don't see the problem. A local dog trainer here does dog pack walks, where a bunch of dogs are walked at the same time, and there is time for the dogs to sniff each other, and I have joined those on a couple occasions.

Ugh we're about to get pretty deep on dog training, socialization, evolution of the dog, etc.  I realize my idea of what dog ownership is/should be is different from many others.

I'm glad it works for you and that you teach your kids to not approach strange dogs.  I would add that you teach your kids not even to ask to pet stranger's dogs.  Keep it to the people you know/trust.

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tinylittlemonkey

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2018, 03:26:05 PM »
Are dogs the problem or is the real problem the owners who think that everyone loves their dog as much as they love it?

Ding ding ding!

Dogs are cool and all but as a city resident I have to say that I get irritated by people not picking up after their dogs and especially people bringing their dog to inappropriate places like nail salons, restaurants, and the pharmacy. The biggest irritation I’ve had is seeing a dog in a shopping cart in the grocery store. They’re dogs, not people/kids.

Sibley

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2018, 03:43:02 PM »
....
As he aged, he started getting grumpy around kids that were at his eye level.
 ....

This is a point that people don't always think of: the age/health of the animal. It is very possible for a friendly animal to become less friendly as they age because they're achy or whatever. That is not the fault of the animal, it's a normal part of aging. How many older people do you know who have less tolerance for noise/activity and get grumpy as a result? But as a pet owner, you have to recognize and adjust for it. Removing the animal from the situation and avoiding the situation are both necessary.

You can't fault an animal for defending themselves when they've been attacked either. The owner should have prevented the issue.

stoaX

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2018, 03:49:59 PM »
Meh, I prefer most dogs to most people.

I also bet the odds of being randomly mauled to death are way less than the odds one of your fellow humans will off you.

you're probably right about the odds of being the victim of a dog attack vs. a human attack, but I think the odds that I will accidentally step in dog droppings are far greater than human droppings. 

stoaX

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2018, 03:56:09 PM »
... the owner following along so far behind that they're out of sight, calling, "Don't worry, he's friendly!"

My thoughts on this is yes, your dog might be friendly but he just put his muddy paws all over my pants and scared the piss out of a toddler - put the dog on leash!

Cassie

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2018, 04:02:02 PM »
As our dogs have aged I have had to be careful about letting others touch them. Yes they get old and grumpy like old people do.  I hate it when people do not pick up there dog waste.

FINate

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2018, 04:11:09 PM »
Thank you for starting this thread.

I cannot count the number of times that I have been walking on a sidewalk or through a public park when a dog came charging at me, barking and snarling, making like they were going to bite my leg off.  In all of these cases, the dogs were NOT supposed to be off leash.  And in all of these cases, the owner did nothing to restrain their dog.  One idiot even had the nerve to tell me her dog was 'friendly' when it in the process of trying to bite my ankle off. 

Even when the dogs are on leashes, I have had very large dogs come at me in an exrtemely aggressive manner and the owners do nothing to restrain them or are in fact physically incapable of restraining such a large animal.  And when I get mad about it, the owners carry on like I am the unreasonable one.

I am sick of having to cross the road to walk on the other side of the street just to avoid dogs and their useless owners.  I'm sick of not being able to walk through a public park without some fucking animal charging at me and their owners standing there, doing nothing.

Agree. The supposedly 'friendly' dog acting aggressively towards others is frustrating. Had one of these off leash 'friendly' dogs charge me while backpacking in a wilderness area this past summer...I hit/poked it with my trekking poles, which apparently offended the owners. Sorry, not sorry. Not going to allow your animal to bite me. 

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2018, 10:15:28 PM »
Meh, I prefer most dogs to most people.

I also bet the odds of being randomly mauled to death are way less than the odds one of your fellow humans will off you.

you're probably right about the odds of being the victim of a dog attack vs. a human attack, but I think the odds that I will accidentally step in dog droppings are far greater than human droppings.

Only because of modern sanitation. You think most people would clean up their poop if they had to do more than just mash a button? Heck, many people can't manage to flush outside of their home from what I remember of the state of public restrooms back before autoflush toilets were invented.

Besides, I run on dirt/grass road shoulders (not pavement, knees too old) and also walk my dog a fair amount. If anyone if going to step in dog droppings, it is unfortunately me . . . and I always pick up after my own dog!

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2018, 02:06:13 PM »
Are dogs the problem or is the real problem the owners who think that everyone loves their dog as much as they love it?

Ding ding ding!

Dogs are cool and all but as a city resident I have to say that I get irritated by people not picking up after their dogs and especially people bringing their dog to inappropriate places like nail salons, restaurants, and the pharmacy. The biggest irritation I’ve had is seeing a dog in a shopping cart in the grocery store. They’re dogs, not people/kids.

I don't live in a city, but dogs are a nuisance (or worse) in our rural area.  Anecdotally just about every neighborhood in our town has at least one irresponsible dog owner, judging by the complaints I see in the local Facebook groups.  Dogs that are left alone and bark All.  Day.  Long.  Dogs that roam neighborhoods and leave their waste, get into trash cans, dig up gardens, etc.  Dogs that bite runners or bikers.  Dogs that get into chicken coops and kill the chickens.

My next door neighbor lets his dog outside to do its business.  No fence, no leash.  Just opens the door and lets the dog out for a while.  Without fail the dog runs down the street and barks loudly at each house in turn (not sure if the 6AM or midnight wakeup is worse), often leaving a present in someone's yard before eventually wandering home.  This summer it ran into our yard, snatched one of my kids' toys, and ran off.  I let my neighbor know about it, and the response was, "Aww, that's too bad.  Sorry about that."  No offer to replace the toy or even spend more than a minute glancing around their back yard for it.  And the toy was never recovered.

I think the attitude is "we're out in the country, so a dog should be able to roam free".  Indeed, when dog owners are confronted with complaints about their dogs, the most common reaction I've seen is defensive, placing the blame on the complainer for being too sensitive.  Even moreso than the unpleasant (to me) attributes/behavior of the dogs themselves, it is this attitude that has gradually made me staunchly anti-dog.
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hoping2retire35

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2018, 02:34:22 PM »
The beach is the worse for obnoxious dog owners. I came here to let my kids run on the beach not to scream about your two 80lb, 'likes everyone',labs that are eating their snacks and slobbering everywhere.  Going to have the police/animal control saved on my phone next time, no more mister nice guy.


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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2018, 06:18:53 PM »
I'm a dog owner/lover and I have 3 rescue dogs. I have to agree people are the problem. I carry poop bags and always clean up after my dogs. I've even had to bring them home and go back out to pick up a few times due to not having enough bags on me, but it's my job to clean up after them so I do. It drives me crazy that neighbors lets their dogs go in my yard and don't clean it up. We have one irresponsible neighbor and their dog gets out all the time, I don't even bother to take it home anymore their kids let the dog out and don't care. I've only been thanked once for returning her. Now I just yell at her to get home and she usually heads back that way, but I feel sorry for her. People definitely need to step up and spay/neuter, while puppies are cute way too many dogs are being put to death.
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Abe

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2018, 10:00:08 PM »
I generally don't mind dogs, but definitely won't have one because of the time spent on them. I've had a couple problems with dogs barking and scaring my son (16 months old), and even had to kick one in the face because it was trying to attack him (and then me when I picked him up). This was in a public park while the owner was chatting with someone else, not paying any attention. Afterwards he sheepishly grabbed the dog's leash and left the park. It's definitely the owner's responsibility to keep their dogs in check. The dog's just doing what their instincts tell them.

I don't like when owners let their dogs poop on my yard. 90% of owners in the neighborhood respect that and keep their dogs off. Some of them don't, and I've got into it with them. Bottom line: it's my property, they are trespassing, and furthermore my son plays in that dirt. Next time I'll poop in their living room, clean it up and then have them tell me it's OK to have something defecate on their property with their permission.

accolay

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2018, 05:25:00 AM »
Are dogs the problem or is the real problem the owners who think that everyone loves their dog as much as they love it?

Owners for sure. People who are in love with the idea of canine ownership, but not so much with the whole taking care of the dog part.

A while back I was walking to a class.  The neighborhood I walk through has a lot of apartments allowing dogs and a lot of owners who don't manage to pick up their dog crap. Springtime when the snow melts it smell like dog shit and you'll be pressed to not see a pile of poo by the street.

Anyway, an owner was walking their dog in the distance and they stopped so the dog could do its business. And then she started to leave without picking it up. This made me angry, so I yelled "are you going to pick that shit up?!?"
"I don't have a bag."
"Use your hand!"

Highly populated areas coupled with dog ownership affects local water quality. Pick up the poop.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 05:28:52 AM by accolay »

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2018, 11:24:11 AM »
I don't like when owners let their dogs poop on my yard. 90% of owners in the neighborhood respect that and keep their dogs off. Some of them don't, and I've got into it with them. Bottom line: it's my property, they are trespassing, and furthermore my son plays in that dirt. Next time I'll poop in their living room, clean it up and then have them tell me it's OK to have something defecate on their property with their permission.

+1 That's a huge pet peeve of mine. Sometimes I catch people walking their dog just standing there as the dog proceeds to pee all over my landscaping...it kills the plants, plants I paid good $ for!

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shelivesthedream

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Re: Is there a dog backlash coming?
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2018, 05:05:57 AM »
I'm not a dog person. I got chased by a dog when I was about four (we had accidentally wandered onto a farmer's land on holiday and it chased us to the boundary then barked like mad til we were out of sight - not totally unreasonable but scared the hell out of me) and have been afraid ever since - though over the years I've climbed down from terrified to nervous.

But I absolutely agree that the problem is owners not dogs, even with aggressive breeds like pitbull types. Dogs do have inborn temperaments and bad habits they are particularly susceptible to, but a good owner will train that out of them and manage what they can't train (eg. keep them fenced in, keep them on a lead while walking...) I have met some excellent dogs over the years (and I say this as someone whose default is to be very nervous around new dogs). By which I really mean I have met some excellent owners. One of my favourite dogs is a whacking great German Shepherd-type thing. I am a short, weak woman, but I am not at all afraid of this dog because it is so clear to me that it knows the rules and that the rules will be enforced by the family. I happily sat with its head on my lap!

With pitbull types particularly, the problem seems to be a naturally aggressive temperament (on the scale of dog aggression), a very strong dog, and that it attracts the type of owner who will encourage bad behaviour (straining on a lead, barking at strangers). So yeah, I'm more afraid of them than of Labradors because Labradors tend to be bought by people who want a nice family dog that they can leave with their children safely. Chihuahuas are another breed that make me especially nervous, again because by and large they are bought by people who want a cuddly toy rather than a pet and so don't train them properly.

Obviously I don't know what things were like thirty years ago, but my mother had a dog before I was born and she complains that no one teaches their dog the command "Heel" any more. She says that walking to heel and coming instantly when called was a huge deal when she was taking her dog to puppy classes, but most dogs nowadays don't seem to be able to do either of those. And the number of people who feed their pets human food (off their plates! Cats and dogs!) and then get annoyed when they whine, beg and steal food. The one time my mother's dog ate human food (a whole packet of kippers, apparently!) is so momentous that the story has passed down the generations into family legend. My mother was furious and apparently the dog looked incredibly guilty and never ever did it again. The Frugalwoods talk about how they have never fed their greyhound human food and so she never begs because she doesn't even know it's an option.

We'd like to get a pet one day. I'd prefer a cat, my husband would prefer a dog, but we're both open to discussion depending on what our situation is at the time (many years in the future). But my main argument against a dog would be other people's dogs. We could train our dog perfectly but as soon as you take it out on a walk, other people's badly behaved dogs are going to come up to investigate and I don't want to have to deal with an aggressive or a persistent dog. Rarely a problem with cats!
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