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Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: scottish on April 11, 2020, 04:10:20 PM

Title: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: scottish on April 11, 2020, 04:10:20 PM
Joe Rogan has stated that he would vote for the Donald Trump over Joe Biden because Biden has dementia.

I watched a couple of clips of Biden on youtube, and he does tend to mix up his words.    But then so do I...   For that matter, he's a lot more articulate than Trump.

I haven't been able to find any clear background on this topic on google.     Does anyone have some factual information around Biden's cognition?

Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: charis on April 11, 2020, 04:30:44 PM
I have no idea. But I always mix up my words. I'm better with prepared remarks, but even so. I don't have dementia.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Psychstache on April 11, 2020, 04:32:23 PM
Biden has an speech fluency disorder (stutter) that, even when remediated early, has continual impacts on speech.

That's the only definitive things I know about Biden's communication and has no impact on his cognitive skills.


EDIT: Also edited to add what is echoed by many other posters, i'm far more concerned about the mental state of his opponent and current occupier of the office. I would take a mop with a bucket on top of it over Trump at this point.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Norioch on April 11, 2020, 04:41:58 PM
I don't know, but I do know that Donald Trump is not in good mental shape, and that doesn't get enough media attention. At the very least he has narcissistic personality disorder, and for all Biden's verbal flubs, Trump is still far less coherent. And even if Biden were diagnosed with Alzheimer's I'd still vote for him over Trump. At that point I'd basically be voting for his VP pick and staff, who I'm sure would be far less dangerous to the country than Trump and his sycophants have been for the last four years.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Financial.Velociraptor on April 11, 2020, 04:47:33 PM
I don't know, but I do know that Donald Trump is not in good mental shape, and that doesn't get enough media attention. At the very least he has narcissistic personality disorder, and for all Biden's verbal flubs, Trump is still far less coherent. And even if Biden were diagnosed with Alzheimer's I'd still vote for him over Trump. At that point I'd basically be voting for his VP pick and staff, who I'm sure would be far less dangerous to the country than Trump and his sycophants have been for the last four years.

+1
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: HPstache on April 11, 2020, 05:30:23 PM
I predict that he does not make it to being the nominee.  Scott Adams who seems to have a pretty good finger on the pulse of politics made the prediction that he chooses Kamala Harris as VP and they switch at convention.  His mental decline is obvious even to his own party, watch... it will happen.

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2020/04/09/episode-902-scott-adams-i-tell-you-about-my-experience-with-models-no-not-that-kind/

22:00 into the podcast
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Telecaster on April 11, 2020, 05:32:11 PM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself" 

Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: wenchsenior on April 11, 2020, 05:38:30 PM
I predict that he does not make it to being the nominee.  Scott Adams who seems to have a pretty good finger on the pulse of politics made the prediction that he chooses Kamala Harris as VP and they switch at convention.  His mental decline is obvious even to his own party, watch... it will happen.

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2020/04/09/episode-902-scott-adams-i-tell-you-about-my-experience-with-models-no-not-that-kind/

22:00 into the podcast

Well, if that turns out to be true, it would essentially be throwing away any chance of winning, so I'm not sure why the hell they would do it.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Telecaster on April 11, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
I predict that he does not make it to being the nominee.  Scott Adams who seems to have a pretty good finger on the pulse of politics made the prediction that he chooses Kamala Harris as VP and they switch at convention.  His mental decline is obvious even to his own party, watch... it will happen.

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2020/04/09/episode-902-scott-adams-i-tell-you-about-my-experience-with-models-no-not-that-kind/

22:00 into the podcast

Okay, let's watch. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: bacchi on April 11, 2020, 05:42:52 PM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

When Trump goes off script, which is often, his speech often gets disordered. His mouth runs quicker than his brain.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 11, 2020, 05:43:07 PM
Scott Adams is in the business of getting Scott Adams to be talked about.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on April 11, 2020, 08:15:04 PM
I predict that he does not make it to being the nominee.  Scott Adams who seems to have a pretty good finger on the pulse of politics made the prediction that he chooses Kamala Harris as VP and they switch at convention.  His mental decline is obvious even to his own party, watch... it will happen.

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2020/04/09/episode-902-scott-adams-i-tell-you-about-my-experience-with-models-no-not-that-kind/

22:00 into the podcast

I was thinking something similar--November is a long ways away.  Something could easily throw a wrench in Trump's or Biden's campaign.  We'll see how Biden does under further pressure.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Tom Bri on April 11, 2020, 09:28:40 PM
Biden is certainly not the same energetic guy he was just a few years ago. He looks frail.
Compare a few years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiGZzNEZmHY

and recent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdDIzwPQ7Is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndDeLIYVWkc

Look at the left side of his face and note the slurred speech. A mini-stroke? By the way, GW Bush has a similar 'look' with one side of his face essentially frozen.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: FIPurpose on April 11, 2020, 09:40:50 PM
I believe Biden has already let insiders know that he wouldn't be seeking a second term. He's looking to play king maker for the next 12 years of presidential politics. And if Joe only makes it 2 years, would could see a 10-year term presidency by his VP.

I imagine that all of his stump speeches will be done by his VP doing all the heavy lifting. He'll just be a smiling face that the speech writers will give a few lines to read from a teleprompter. It's sad that it's come to this, but I think I'd still take a Biden/Harris ticket over something like Cuomo stealing the nomination.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: OzzieandHarriet on April 11, 2020, 10:00:16 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: rob in cal on April 12, 2020, 12:13:53 AM
  Don't know about his mental state, but I can't help thinking that Joe was first elected to the US senate when Franco was still dictator of Spain, Haile Selassie ruled Ethiopia, King Zahir Shah ran Afghanistan and the designated hitter hadn't started yet.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: MasterStache on April 12, 2020, 06:54:15 AM
Joe Rogan has stated that he would vote for the Donald Trump over Joe Biden because Biden has dementia.

I watched a couple of clips of Biden on youtube, and he does tend to mix up his words.    But then so do I...   For that matter, he's a lot more articulate than Trump.

I haven't been able to find any clear background on this topic on google.     Does anyone have some factual information around Biden's cognition?

Mehh, I took a dump today. Why is this news? Biden may not be the most articulate, but I highly doubt he'll be labeling sexual assault as "locker room talk" or calling Neo-Nazis "good people."
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: desk_jockey on April 12, 2020, 08:11:27 AM
I don't know, but I do know that Donald Trump is not in good mental shape, and that doesn't get enough media attention. At the very least he has narcissistic personality disorder, and for all Biden's verbal flubs, Trump is still far less coherent. And even if Biden were diagnosed with Alzheimer's I'd still vote for him over Trump. At that point I'd basically be voting for his VP pick and staff, who I'm sure would be far less dangerous to the country than Trump and his sycophants have been for the last four years.

Can I get an “amen” on this fine Easter morning?   I’d vote for a brain-dead Biden with a decent running mate over Trump.   I lean conservative, but this is not about policy and principles (which the Republicans have mostly abandoned under Trump anyway).  This is about stopping Trump's capacity to do direct damage to our fundamental institutions of government and by extension it’s people. 

This opinion is just one of many that puts it to better words than I can:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/09/trump-removes-inspectors-general-blatant-corruption-column/2973535001/



  Don't know about his mental state, but I can't help thinking that Joe was first elected to the US senate when Franco was still dictator of Spain, Haile Selassie ruled Ethiopia, King Zahir Shah ran Afghanistan and the designated hitter hadn't started yet.

Joe was elected before Trump went to Russia for the first time and within two months of his return printed full-page advertisements in the New York Times and Washington Post criticizing US involvement in NATO during the Cold War. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: js82 on April 12, 2020, 09:02:25 AM
Joe Biden was never a brilliant man.  Is there some level of cognitive decline with age?  Probably.  Happens (or will happen) to us all.

But he's also not a narcissist with an over-inflated opinion of his own intellect.  If you put competent, well-intentioned people in the right positions and know when to listen/defer, that's a lot less dangerous than someone who consistently insists on overruling people more qualified than himself because he thinks he's always the smartest person in the room.


Disclaimer:  I don't love Joe Biden.  He's got plenty of flaws, and I think the Democratic party could do much, much better.  But I also think a figurehead Biden wouldn't be the worst thing for this country right now.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: norajean on April 12, 2020, 11:12:28 AM
He seems old and weak. We need a better candidate.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 12, 2020, 11:13:24 AM
Compared to Trump?

Absolutely.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: redbirdfan on April 12, 2020, 02:49:58 PM
If Biden has dementia, he will still be surrounded by competent people making competent decisions.  There's nothing about Biden that suggests he's not open to compromise or unwilling to listen to experts or common sense.  I'm a Reagan(ish) Republican and I'm pretty sure he was out of it by the end of his second term.  As long as you don't believe the dementia would cause him to consider nuking hurricanes,  let thousands of people die from a virus bc he's concerned about the economy or lock kids in cages, you'd be better off with Biden.  In short, Trump's pathology is much more dangerous than Biden's alleged dementia.  This isn't a close call in my book. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Monerexia on April 12, 2020, 03:00:02 PM
If Biden has dementia, he will still be surrounded by competent people making competent decisions.  There's nothing about Biden that suggests he's not open to compromise or unwilling to listen to experts or common sense.  I'm a Reagan(ish) Republican and I'm pretty sure he was out of it by the end of his second term.  As long as you don't believe the dementia would cause him to consider nuking hurricanes,  let thousands of people die from a virus bc he's concerned about the economy or lock kids in cages, you'd be better off with Biden.  In short, Trump's pathology is much more dangerous than Biden's alleged dementia.  This isn't a close call in my book.

This. It's the staff--the brain tide has gone out (far out haha) and will come rushing back in with a change of admin.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 12, 2020, 03:19:59 PM
Joe Rogan has stated that he would vote for the Donald Trump over Joe Biden because Biden has dementia.

If you can honestly look at Joe Biden and Donald Trump, then come to the conclusion that Donald Trump is in better mental health . . . well, it makes me question your own mental state.  :P


Not saying that Biden isn't suffering from cognitive decline.  That's to be expected and normal in a person of his age.  It's why it's stupid to elect octogenarians as president.  But there has been far more evidence of cognitive decline in things Donald Trump has said.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Telecaster on April 12, 2020, 04:07:06 PM
Joe Rogan has stated that he would vote for the Donald Trump over Joe Biden because Biden has dementia.

If you can honestly look at Joe Biden and Donald Trump, then come to the conclusion that Donald Trump is in better mental health . . . well, it makes me question your own mental state.  :P


Not saying that Biden isn't suffering from cognitive decline.  That's to be expected and normal in a person of his age.  It's why it's stupid to elect octogenarians as president.  But there has been far more evidence of cognitive decline in things Donald Trump has said.

Co-signed.  Windmills cause cancer?   Trump says stuff that sounds literally crazy all. the. time.   Biden is clearly too old to be president.  But Trump clearly has some severe mental impairments. 

Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 12, 2020, 04:09:53 PM
Joe Rogan has stated that he would vote for the Donald Trump over Joe Biden because Biden has dementia.


Part of the problem might stem from listening to Joe Rogan..
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: sherr on April 12, 2020, 04:37:31 PM
Joe Rogan has stated that he would vote for the Donald Trump over Joe Biden because Biden has dementia.


Part of the problem might stem from listening to Joe Rogan..

I actually quite like his long-form interviews with the candidates, like his hour with Bernie for instance was much more informative than anything you get out of a debate with 10 people on stage where each candidate has a total of like 5 minutes of speaking time. That's a role that's sorely lacking in our political world, and if Joe is the only one filling it then more power to him.

However he is just a comedian / MMA announcer, so like, don't pay too much attention to his opinions. He doesn't know any more than any other random Joe.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: sherr on April 12, 2020, 04:40:24 PM
I predict that he does not make it to being the nominee.  Scott Adams who seems to have a pretty good finger on the pulse of politics made the prediction that he chooses Kamala Harris as VP and they switch at convention.  His mental decline is obvious even to his own party, watch... it will happen.

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2020/04/09/episode-902-scott-adams-i-tell-you-about-my-experience-with-models-no-not-that-kind/

22:00 into the podcast

Scott Adams definitely does *not* have a "finger on the pulse of politics", he's just a huge Trump fanboy who is having a moment in the spotlight because Trump managed to squeak out an electoral-college win. He'll say anything (that he thinks he can get people to believe) to make Trump look good / smart and everyone else look bad / dumb. I'm not exactly sure how that crazy conspiracy theory plays into that other than to further the "Biden has dementia" propaganda, but yes, let's see if he's right about this.

I'm actually quite surprised he made an actual prediction, usually he doesn't say anything that's actually falsifiable so that he can't be proven wrong, just insinuations and insults and slanted phrasing (standard Trumper fair).
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: scottish on April 12, 2020, 05:07:49 PM
Biden has an speech fluency disorder (stutter) that, even when remediated early, has continual impacts on speech.

That's the only definitive things I know about Biden's communication and has no impact on his cognitive skills.

A profile that digs into this subject, which I feel is vastly overlooked in this discussion: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/)

Thanks for that.   That's the stuff I was looking for.

I enjoy Scott Adams' Dilbert comics.    But after reading his 'Win bigly' book and listening to his podcasts, I've lost much respect for the man.

Did you know that he hypnotized a female friend into having orgasms?   FFS.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: bacchi on April 12, 2020, 07:54:33 PM
I'm actually quite surprised he made an actual prediction, usually he doesn't say anything that's actually falsifiable so that he can't be proven wrong, just insinuations and insults and slanted phrasing (standard Trumper fair).

It's not a good prediction either. There's no way Biden picks Harris as his VP.


Eta: Betting sites do have Harris as the leading VP choice. I'd guess a cabinet position instead.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Tom Bri on April 12, 2020, 08:22:25 PM
.

But he's also not a narcissist with an over-inflated opinion of his own intellect. 


Past:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWM6EuKxz5A&feature=emb_logo
Recent:
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/05/785205068/in-tense-exchange-biden-calls-iowa-voter-a-damn-liar-challenges-him-to-iq-test

Biden has a long history of exaggerating his IQ and accomplishments. More like Trump than not.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: gentmach on April 12, 2020, 09:45:39 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/05/biden-calls-iowa-voter-damn-liar-and-fat-after-ukraine-accusation.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/10/joe-biden-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier-new-hampshire

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/biden-clashes-with-union-worker-on-guns-as-voters-head-to-polls-in-six-states-80433221973

Problem is he is somewhat combative with his constituents. For some people it brings up reminders of how their grandparents behaved just before they lost all touch with reality.

Add in the Bidenisms and you can see the cause for concern.

Also Biden looks more like the Crypt Keeper with each passing day.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Warlord1986 on April 12, 2020, 09:56:11 PM
Eh, I can believe there's some mental decline going on.

Really though, I would vote for my cat over Donald Trump so it doesn't bug me. Biden is better than the Orange Carbunkle.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Metalcat on April 13, 2020, 05:35:53 AM
Biden has an speech fluency disorder (stutter) that, even when remediated early, has continual impacts on speech.

That's the only definitive things I know about Biden's communication and has no impact on his cognitive skills.

A profile that digs into this subject, which I feel is vastly overlooked in this discussion: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/)

Are his speech issues not common knowledge?
I thought everyone knew he had a stutter and that he uses substitution words when he feels he's about to stutter on a word, which is why his phrases come out rather odd sometimes.

Stress and pressure tend to exacerbate stutters, so it would make sense that his speech would become more inconsistent during a presidential campaign.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: J Boogie on April 13, 2020, 08:16:05 AM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

When Trump goes off script, which is often, his speech often gets disordered. His mouth runs quicker than his brain.

I have found it to be the opposite. When Trump has a very solemn proclamation to make and is forced to read from a script, he speaks in a totally different manner that seems to exhaust his mouth.

For example, the classic "God bless the United Shaeush" line came after he read his big speech recognizing Israel's ability to choose its capital if I'm not mistaken.

I am actually the same way in that when I have to read aloud I have trouble keeping a normal breathing pattern going so I end up yawning too much. Whereas when I am speaking my mind or reciting from memory I don't have any issues.

Trump's freeform content of course can range from inane to insane. I've never watched an entire rally, but I have read reviews that mention how long winded they are and how they frequently veer off topic. Crew members of the apprentice also mentioned how much editing they have to do in order to put together clips of Trump saying things that moved the episode forward as opposed to veering off course.

Perhaps Trump and Biden are very similar mentally in this regard but it comes off differently due to Biden's historic speech impediment and his relatively relatable nature. Where Trump seems like a deranged nonsensical circus barker when he rambles about windmills, Biden comes off more like a regular person who is more likely to remind us of our elderly relatives. That's probably why there's more of an instinct to start coming up with some type of plan when we see signs of mental decline - because that's what we do when it's our own parents.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: EngagedToFIRE on April 13, 2020, 08:24:24 AM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

Right, but they are coherent remarks that you don't agree with.  You think Trump is stupid.  But that's not the same as severe cognitive decline.  That's the issue with Biden, he is totally incoherent and in a decline that is obvious to just about everyone.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Fishindude on April 13, 2020, 08:32:11 AM
Can't believe the Trump haters couldn't come up with a better candidate than Biden?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 13, 2020, 08:33:19 AM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

Right, but they are coherent remarks that you don't agree with.  You think Trump is stupid.  But that's not the same as severe cognitive decline.  That's the issue with Biden, he is totally incoherent and in a decline that is obvious to just about everyone.

Um, I won't speak for Telecaster, but no I don't think Trump is coherent. I definitely see cognitive decline in him. If you look at interviews with him from ten years ago... yeah, he's still a blustering egomaniac. But he's a lot less coherent today.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: EngagedToFIRE on April 13, 2020, 08:40:43 AM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

Right, but they are coherent remarks that you don't agree with.  You think Trump is stupid.  But that's not the same as severe cognitive decline.  That's the issue with Biden, he is totally incoherent and in a decline that is obvious to just about everyone.

Um, I won't speak for Telecaster, but no I don't think Trump is coherent. I definitely see cognitive decline in him. If you look at interviews with him from ten years ago... yeah, he's still a blustering egomaniac. But he's a lot less coherent today.

Trump is clearly not showing the same decline as Biden.  As I said, "windmills cause cancer" is a coherent statement.  It's fucking stupid, but it's coherent - it's also not what he said.  As others pointed out, even staunch Democrats are very much aware of Bidens issues and decline.  It's only going to get worse.  It's why Joe is practically in hiding right now, as his handlers are desperately trying to maintain some sort of facade - but Joe can't even manage to speak coherently with scripted remarks.

The funny thing about the Trump windmill cancer statement, is how much it proves that the media don't give a damn about context or reporting the news.  The cancer thing was one dumb comment, but his overall point is actually spot on accurate, that windmills near residences cause a lot of issues, lower home values, kill birds, etc.  In fact, Trump didn't actually make the claim that windmills cause cancer.  But whatever.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: sixwings on April 13, 2020, 08:48:32 AM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

Right, but they are coherent remarks that you don't agree with.  You think Trump is stupid.  But that's not the same as severe cognitive decline.  That's the issue with Biden, he is totally incoherent and in a decline that is obvious to just about everyone.

..... Trump has severe cognitive decline. He's also a very stupid and disgusting person. try following any non written speech, type it out, its completely incomprehensible 100% of the time. then compare that to how he talked 10-15 years ago and then compare ro biden i think you will get a good comparison for who is actually in severe cognitive decline.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 13, 2020, 08:49:32 AM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

Right, but they are coherent remarks that you don't agree with.  You think Trump is stupid.  But that's not the same as severe cognitive decline.  That's the issue with Biden, he is totally incoherent and in a decline that is obvious to just about everyone.

Um, I won't speak for Telecaster, but no I don't think Trump is coherent. I definitely see cognitive decline in him. If you look at interviews with him from ten years ago... yeah, he's still a blustering egomaniac. But he's a lot less coherent today.

Trump is clearly not showing the same decline as Biden.  As I said, "windmills cause cancer" is a coherent statement.  It's fucking stupid, but it's coherent.  As others pointed out, even staunch Democrats are very much aware of Bidens issues and decline.  It's only going to get worse.  It's why Joe is practically in hiding right now, as his handlers are desperately trying to maintain some sort of facade - but Joe can't even manage to speak coherently with scripted remarks.

You are very certain of this. I disagree. And submit evidence of all the times during his campaign rallies where he loses control of his speech... or twitches and abruptly changes the subject... or says the same thing over and over three or four times to mask his confusion and that he has lost his train of thought.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: iris lily on April 13, 2020, 08:52:52 AM
I don't know, but I do know that Donald Trump is not in good mental shape, and that doesn't get enough media attention. At the very least he has narcissistic personality disorder, and for all Biden's verbal flubs, Trump is still far less coherent. And even if Biden were diagnosed with Alzheimer's I'd still vote for him over Trump. At that point I'd basically be voting for his VP pick and staff, who I'm sure would be far less dangerous to the country than Trump and his sycophants have been for the last four years.
This response was of course completely expected given the title of this thread.

I think it’s too bad the Democrats couldn’t put up a better candidate.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: MasterStache on April 13, 2020, 09:04:39 AM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

Right, but they are coherent remarks that you don't agree with.  You think Trump is stupid.  But that's not the same as severe cognitive decline.  That's the issue with Biden, he is totally incoherent and in a decline that is obvious to just about everyone.
Trump is stupid. Someone who makes the claims he does is far more dangerous than someone who has some normal mental degradation. Not sure where you came up with "severe cognitive decline." I would pose the question, if you think Trump isn't suffering from some cognitive decline, of why he would make so many inherently outrageously false claims? If you watch Trump from 20-30 years ago speak and compare it to now, you would see a different person. He actually sounded intelligent decades ago. Why is that? I mean did he just turn stupid?   
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: bacchi on April 13, 2020, 09:48:28 AM
In fact, Trump didn't actually make the claim that windmills cause cancer.  But whatever.

Yes, he did.

He spoke about windmills at least twice to different groups. To the NRCC, he said "And they say the [windmill] noise causes cancer."

If you want to be a pedant, he never said that an inoperable windmill causes cancer but he did state that the noise from a windmill causes cancer. He could've been joking but, then, he also said, in a later speech about wind power,

Quote from: Trump
I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody I know.

He never understood wind but he has studied windmills better than anybody he knows. Wha??? That guy has dementia!!!11!

Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: EngagedToFIRE on April 13, 2020, 11:49:57 AM
In fact, Trump didn't actually make the claim that windmills cause cancer.  But whatever.

He spoke about windmills at least twice to different groups. To the NRCC, he said "And they say the [windmill] noise causes cancer."


Please read his quote again.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: EngagedToFIRE on April 13, 2020, 11:57:46 AM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

Right, but they are coherent remarks that you don't agree with.  You think Trump is stupid.  But that's not the same as severe cognitive decline.  That's the issue with Biden, he is totally incoherent and in a decline that is obvious to just about everyone.
Trump is stupid. Someone who makes the claims he does is far more dangerous than someone who has some normal mental degradation. Not sure where you came up with "severe cognitive decline." I would pose the question, if you think Trump isn't suffering from some cognitive decline, of why he would make so many inherently outrageously false claims? If you watch Trump from 20-30 years ago speak and compare it to now, you would see a different person. He actually sounded intelligent decades ago. Why is that? I mean did he just turn stupid?

I don't agree with your claim that Trump is stupid, at all.  Obnoxious?  Yes.  And some things I think are kind of stupid that he says, but I can't think of a single person who doesn't say things that I think are stupid at some point...  I find Trump quite sharp.  Of course he has some decline, he's old, but there is a reason Biden is getting the attention about it that he is.  It's pretty obvious to everyone watching what's going on.  The Dems had FAR better candidates, and still do.  I even used to kind of like Biden, but he's totally lost it in the last 6+ months.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 13, 2020, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Trump
I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody I know.

He never understood wind but he has studied windmills better than anybody he knows. Wha??? That guy has dementia!!!11!

Let's be fair to Trump, and give the full quote:

“I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes. Gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”


The president contradicted himself, went on a totally unrelated tangent, shows a dangerous lack of knowledge of the topic being discussed, and threw in some totally unrelated things that popped into his addled mind.

Remind me again, what exactly has Biden said that is more dementia riddled than that? 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Pizzabrewer on April 13, 2020, 12:11:39 PM
In fact, Trump didn't actually make the claim that windmills cause cancer.  But whatever.

He spoke about windmills at least twice to different groups. To the NRCC, he said "And they say the [windmill] noise causes cancer."



Please read his quote again.


Yeah the old Fox “News”/republican gaslighting technique. Attribute some crazy idea you want to say to the ephemeral “they”. Then when challenged, deny you said it.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: EngagedToFIRE on April 13, 2020, 12:18:46 PM
Quote from: Trump
I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody I know.

He never understood wind but he has studied windmills better than anybody he knows. Wha??? That guy has dementia!!!11!

Let's be fair to Trump, and give the full quote:

“I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes. Gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”


The president contradicted himself, went on a totally unrelated tangent, shows a dangerous lack of knowledge of the topic being discussed, and threw in some totally unrelated things that popped into his addled mind.

Remind me again, what exactly has Biden said that is more dementia riddled than that?

He said he doesn't understand why people push wind power so much.  I kind of agree with that to some extent.  And that the manufacturing of turbines is dirty and done in countries with little pollution control.  These are people are make statements, constantly, speeches, discussions, under intense scrutiny.  You can do this same thing with just about any politician.  Find something stupid they said and pretend like they have no fitness for office.  Heck, could you imagine the commander in chief of the armed forcing calling fighters "corpse" men... Lol.  It's kind of irrelevant to the bigger picture.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 13, 2020, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: Trump
I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody I know.

He never understood wind but he has studied windmills better than anybody he knows. Wha??? That guy has dementia!!!11!

Let's be fair to Trump, and give the full quote:

“I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes. Gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”


The president contradicted himself, went on a totally unrelated tangent, shows a dangerous lack of knowledge of the topic being discussed, and threw in some totally unrelated things that popped into his addled mind.

Remind me again, what exactly has Biden said that is more dementia riddled than that?

He said he doesn't understand why people push wind power so much.  I kind of agree with that to some extent.  And that the manufacturing of turbines is dirty and done in countries with little pollution control.

That is not what he said.  Maybe that's what he meant to say?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Fireball on April 13, 2020, 02:14:04 PM
In fact, Trump didn't actually make the claim that windmills cause cancer.  But whatever.

He spoke about windmills at least twice to different groups. To the NRCC, he said "And they say the [windmill] noise causes cancer."



Please read his quote again.


Yeah the old Fox “News”/republican gaslighting technique. Attribute some crazy idea you want to say to the ephemeral “they”. Then when challenged, deny you said it.

Yeah, my 8 year old son does the same thing.  "Some people say I'm the fastest kid on the planet."  Anyone with half a brain knows that no one says this.  He's not even the fastest kid in his class. 

Yep, Trump is at least as sharp as my 8 year old.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Malloy on April 13, 2020, 02:21:48 PM
EngagedToFire on Trump:  "You can do this same thing with just about any politician.  Find something stupid they said and pretend like they have no fitness for office. "

EngagedToFire on Biden:  Does not apply the above "just about any politician" standard to Biden for...reasons? 

The available evidence shows that Trump No Can Talk Good. The windmills thing is just one of thousands of examples.  The nuclear physics MIT uncle quote is a doozy.  How about his recent claim that the "brilliant" virus is too smart for antibiotics. If it were just one stupid thing once in a while, sure. But the scales are tipped way over to the incoherent babble side.  I don't know if it's mental decline or just garden variety stupidity or an elaborate ruse aimed at soothing his idiocracy base. It's kind of you to paper over his verbal sewage, but please don't debase yourself defending him. Remember that Trump wouldn't do the same for you.  He'd probably mock you for being mentally retarded while doing his palsy impression at one of his rallies.

And if the American electorate cared about electing the candidate with higher cognitive function, we'd be arguing about Hillary Clinton's reelection campaign. 


Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: scottish on April 13, 2020, 03:28:16 PM
Let's try and parse this quote.

Quote
“I never understood wind."

I don't understand why air moves outside.

Quote
"You know, I know windmills very much. "

But I do know windmills.   Some of my favourite infrastructure is windmills.    Best infrastructure in the world, windmills, except...

Quote
"But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes."

windmills manufacture tremendous fumes.

Quote
"Gases are spewing into the atmosphere."

Windmills are spewing gases into the atmosphere as I talk.

Quote
"You know we have a world, right?"

We live on the world.

Quote
"So the world is tiny compared to the universe."

The universe is big and contains the world.

Quote
"So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything."

The world contains the tremendous fumes.

Quote
"You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Sp"ewing."

So the windmills have a carbon footprint.

Quote
"Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”

China and Germany also have windmills.   The use the same air that we do to turn their windmills.

Put it all together:

Quote
I don't understand why air moves outside.  But I do know windmills.   Some of my favourite infrastructure is windmills.    Best infrastructure in the world, windmills, except...  windmills manufacture tremendous fumes.  Windmills are spewing gases into the atmosphere as I talk.

We live on the world.     The universe is big and contains the world.   The world contains the tremendous fumes.  So the windmills have a carbon footprint.

China and Germany also have windmills.   The use the same air that we do to turn their windmills.

Seems perfectly clear to me.     I think I've been cooped up at home too long ,though.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Little Aussie Battler on April 13, 2020, 05:26:57 PM
It's a shame that so many potentially interesting threads get derailed by this endless (and boring) discussion about Trump.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: EngagedToFIRE on April 13, 2020, 05:36:22 PM
Quote from: Trump
I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody I know.

He never understood wind but he has studied windmills better than anybody he knows. Wha??? That guy has dementia!!!11!

Let's be fair to Trump, and give the full quote:

“I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes. Gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”


The president contradicted himself, went on a totally unrelated tangent, shows a dangerous lack of knowledge of the topic being discussed, and threw in some totally unrelated things that popped into his addled mind.

Remind me again, what exactly has Biden said that is more dementia riddled than that?

He said he doesn't understand why people push wind power so much.  I kind of agree with that to some extent.  And that the manufacturing of turbines is dirty and done in countries with little pollution control.

That is not what he said.  Maybe that's what he meant to say?

I'm not sure what to say.  You posted the quote.  That's literally what he said.

And by the way, that's not the actual script of his speech.  It's cut up, probably intentionally.  Shocking, right?  The media would actually piece together sentences to make it appear more jumbled and show the president in a bad light?  Nahhh....  Oh, I guess that's exactly what they did.

Nothing about his speech was hard to comprehend.  It's easy to disagree with it, but hard to comprehend it?  Come on...
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: EngagedToFIRE on April 13, 2020, 05:37:56 PM
EngagedToFire on Trump:  "You can do this same thing with just about any politician.  Find something stupid they said and pretend like they have no fitness for office. "

EngagedToFire on Biden:  Does not apply the above "just about any politician" standard to Biden for...reasons? 

The available evidence shows that Trump No Can Talk Good. The windmills thing is just one of thousands of examples.  The nuclear physics MIT uncle quote is a doozy.  How about his recent claim that the "brilliant" virus is too smart for antibiotics. If it were just one stupid thing once in a while, sure. But the scales are tipped way over to the incoherent babble side.  I don't know if it's mental decline or just garden variety stupidity or an elaborate ruse aimed at soothing his idiocracy base. It's kind of you to paper over his verbal sewage, but please don't debase yourself defending him. Remember that Trump wouldn't do the same for you.  He'd probably mock you for being mentally retarded while doing his palsy impression at one of his rallies.

And if the American electorate cared about electing the candidate with higher cognitive function, we'd be arguing about Hillary Clinton's reelection campaign.

That's a total misrepresentation of the context, but I'm not shocked you would do that.  It's clear, even to Democrats, that Biden is having serious cognitive decline issues.  But it all has to be hyper partisan for you, right?  He's on "your team".... so whatever it takes!
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: EngagedToFIRE on April 13, 2020, 05:39:23 PM
Let's try and parse this quote.

Quote
“I never understood wind."

I don't understand why air moves outside.

Quote
"You know, I know windmills very much. "

But I do know windmills.   Some of my favourite infrastructure is windmills.    Best infrastructure in the world, windmills, except...

Quote
"But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes."

windmills manufacture tremendous fumes.

Quote
"Gases are spewing into the atmosphere."

Windmills are spewing gases into the atmosphere as I talk.

Quote
"You know we have a world, right?"

We live on the world.

Quote
"So the world is tiny compared to the universe."

The universe is big and contains the world.

Quote
"So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything."

The world contains the tremendous fumes.

Quote
"You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Sp"ewing."

So the windmills have a carbon footprint.

Quote
"Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”

China and Germany also have windmills.   The use the same air that we do to turn their windmills.

Put it all together:

Quote
I don't understand why air moves outside.  But I do know windmills.   Some of my favourite infrastructure is windmills.    Best infrastructure in the world, windmills, except...  windmills manufacture tremendous fumes.  Windmills are spewing gases into the atmosphere as I talk.

We live on the world.     The universe is big and contains the world.   The world contains the tremendous fumes.  So the windmills have a carbon footprint.

China and Germany also have windmills.   The use the same air that we do to turn their windmills.

Seems perfectly clear to me.     I think I've been cooped up at home too long ,though.

I think you have only proven your total lack of reading comprehension.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: scottish on April 13, 2020, 06:20:58 PM
Oh yeah?   So what do you think he said?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Hotstreak on April 13, 2020, 07:11:07 PM
Taking bluster, humor, or any off the cuff comments and scrutinizing them as if they were a piece of written law, or a formal remark of any kind, is disingenuous sniping.



Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Hotstreak on April 13, 2020, 07:15:10 PM
I'm interested to see how Biden performs over the summer, especially in debates and town halls.  OP mentioned Joe Rogan, who is a Bernie supporter.  There are a lot of Bernie folks who are not fans of Biden.  They are talking about the good and the bad of him and deciding whether to vote, whereas the long time Biden supporters seem to be talking only about his positives, and deflecting when anything negative is brought up.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Malloy on April 13, 2020, 07:19:51 PM
EngagedToFire on Trump:  "You can do this same thing with just about any politician.  Find something stupid they said and pretend like they have no fitness for office. "

EngagedToFire on Biden:  Does not apply the above "just about any politician" standard to Biden for...reasons? 

The available evidence shows that Trump No Can Talk Good. The windmills thing is just one of thousands of examples.  The nuclear physics MIT uncle quote is a doozy.  How about his recent claim that the "brilliant" virus is too smart for antibiotics. If it were just one stupid thing once in a while, sure. But the scales are tipped way over to the incoherent babble side.  I don't know if it's mental decline or just garden variety stupidity or an elaborate ruse aimed at soothing his idiocracy base. It's kind of you to paper over his verbal sewage, but please don't debase yourself defending him. Remember that Trump wouldn't do the same for you.  He'd probably mock you for being mentally retarded while doing his palsy impression at one of his rallies.

And if the American electorate cared about electing the candidate with higher cognitive function, we'd be arguing about Hillary Clinton's reelection campaign.

That's a total misrepresentation of the context, but I'm not shocked you would do that.  It's clear, even to Democrats, that Biden is having serious cognitive decline issues.  But it all has to be hyper partisan for you, right?  He's on "your team".... so whatever it takes!

OK-I'll bite.  What's the correct context?  You say it's "clear" Biden is having cognitive decline.  But you haven't provided any examples.  I don't think it's clear. He debated Bernie and won.   He had a policy talk with Bernie today.  He talks about reciting poetry to combat his stutter.  Trump probably thinks Yeats is a kind of vegetable that makes him poop a funny color.  In the absence of any evidence or examples, I'm not sure why you can argue it's clear that Biden is losing it?

On the other hand, lots of us have provided examples of why Trump sounds like a simpleton when he talks.  I particularly loved the exhaustive line-by-line rebuttal where every idiot line was parsed as if seeing each one in sharp relief would somehow convince us that it was evidence of a mind in good health. ""You know, I know windmills very much. " Um-ok? Anyone want to jump in to defend Trump thinking that the virus has outsmarted antibiotics?  I didn't think so.

I am partisan. I don't deny it, and I feel just fine about it.  I'm partisan about a lot of things based on the available evidence. But if you truly believe this thing that you posted: "You can do this same thing with just about any politician.  Find something stupid they said and pretend like they have no fitness for office." then not applying the same standard to Trump as Biden makes you partisan, too.  Welcome to the tent. It seems we are back to the Trump translator days where nothing he says can be taken seriously or analyzed in any way because he was joking, or he meant something different, or some flunky turns it into something resembling human speech.  That's fine, but give that courtesy to Biden, too.  Or some anonymous internet person will say you are hyper-partisan.

Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Norioch on April 13, 2020, 08:48:00 PM
Sanders publicly endorsed Biden today. I hope that helps convince some "Bernie or bust" voters to reconsider.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: MasterStache on April 13, 2020, 09:10:26 PM
Again, Trump used to not be so linguistically challenged. So why has he changed?
https://www.statnews.com/2017/05/23/donald-trump-speaking-style-interviews/
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Telecaster on April 13, 2020, 09:46:28 PM
Taking bluster, humor, or any off the cuff comments and scrutinizing them as if they were a piece of written law, or a formal remark of any kind, is disingenuous sniping.

Agreed, everyone will sound stupid if they talk long enough.  What about the written word?  Have you ever read Trump's twitter feed?  He doesn't know proper grammar or capitalization.  And he name calls and flings insults like a six year old.  How about his slogan he used at every campaign rally?  "I'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it."  That's objectively stupid.  Mexico was never going to pay for a wall.  That wasn't a one off, he said it every time.   "I'm a very stable genius.  My fingers are long and beautiful, like other parts of my body.    I look very much to showing my financials because they are huge...."

It is just endless.  Every day he says something cringe worthy.   Today he had a meltdown worthy of a kindergartner because a reporter asked what he did about COVID in February.   He called names, yelled, changed the subject, attacked the media.  Everything except name a single thing he did. 

Supposedly, he wants to reopen the country on May 1st.  Great!  What's the plan?  Oh, there isn't one.   He announced today there would be task force which may or may not included Jared and Ivanka (reports differ).   They've got two whole weeks to come up with some ideas.  Should be plenty of time, right? 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: desk_jockey on April 13, 2020, 10:29:37 PM
Let's be fair to Trump, and give the full quote:

“I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes. Gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”

No need to over-analyze this quote, Trump is just jumbling a talking point that’s been spoon fed to him.  Pro-fossil fuel talking heads have been pushing the argument that the manufacturing of windmills and solar panels is inefficient and creates more pollution than the use of alternative energy devices saves.  After all, they say, “there is no windmill manufacturing plant that is powered by windmills”.  Someone told him that manufacturing of windmills produces polution.  Trump is just so stupid and disorganized that somehow he confuses it into a rambling that sounds like he’s saying windmills themselves cause pollution emissions.

He doesn’t read well.   And he doesn’t trust knowledgeable people who try to inform him.   He just cuts off everyone and tells them that he knows more than anybody else on the subject.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: wenchsenior on April 14, 2020, 10:08:40 AM
Let's try and parse this quote.

Quote
“I never understood wind."

I don't understand why air moves outside.

Quote
"You know, I know windmills very much. "

But I do know windmills.   Some of my favourite infrastructure is windmills.    Best infrastructure in the world, windmills, except...

Quote
"But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes."

windmills manufacture tremendous fumes.

Quote
"Gases are spewing into the atmosphere."

Windmills are spewing gases into the atmosphere as I talk.

Quote
"You know we have a world, right?"

We live on the world.

Quote
"So the world is tiny compared to the universe."

The universe is big and contains the world.

Quote
"So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything."

The world contains the tremendous fumes.

Quote
"You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Sp"ewing."

So the windmills have a carbon footprint.

Quote
"Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”

China and Germany also have windmills.   The use the same air that we do to turn their windmills.

Put it all together:

Quote
I don't understand why air moves outside.  But I do know windmills.   Some of my favourite infrastructure is windmills.    Best infrastructure in the world, windmills, except...  windmills manufacture tremendous fumes.  Windmills are spewing gases into the atmosphere as I talk.

We live on the world.     The universe is big and contains the world.   The world contains the tremendous fumes.  So the windmills have a carbon footprint.

China and Germany also have windmills.   The use the same air that we do to turn their windmills.

Seems perfectly clear to me.     I think I've been cooped up at home too long ,though.

I think you have only proven your total lack of reading comprehension.

Ok, this is getting into the arena of astonishingly pathetic defense of the indefensible. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Fishindude on April 14, 2020, 11:04:50 AM
Pro-fossil fuel talking heads have been pushing the argument that the manufacturing of windmills and solar panels is inefficient and creates more pollution than the use of alternative energy devices saves.  After all, they say, “there is no windmill manufacturing plant that is powered by windmills”.  Someone told him that manufacturing of windmills produces polution. 

Only because it's true.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: bacchi on April 14, 2020, 11:46:02 AM
Pro-fossil fuel talking heads have been pushing the argument that the manufacturing of windmills and solar panels is inefficient and creates more pollution than the use of alternative energy devices saves.  After all, they say, “there is no windmill manufacturing plant that is powered by windmills”.  Someone told him that manufacturing of windmills produces polution. 

Only because it's true.

Bike manufacturing uses non-renewable energy too. It doesn't mean that riding a bike uses more pollution than driving a car.

There are a number of life-cycle studies about windmills. The worst case is almost a magnitude of order fewer emissions than an NG power plant.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: iris lily on April 14, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
Taking bluster, humor, or any off the cuff comments and scrutinizing them as if they were a piece of written law, or a formal remark of any kind, is disingenuous sniping.
I know, and a basic truth of Donald J. Trump that came out early in the election remains solid today: Trump fans takes him seriously but not literally, Trump detractors take him literally but not seriously.

Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: bacchi on April 14, 2020, 12:05:56 PM
Taking bluster, humor, or any off the cuff comments and scrutinizing them as if they were a piece of written law, or a formal remark of any kind, is disingenuous sniping.
I know, and a basic truth of Donald J. Trump that came out early in the election remains solid today: Trump fans takes him seriously but not literally, Trump detractors take him literally but not seriously.

That's true for some of his rambling. He's playing to a certain audience and can make off-the-cuff remarks that CPAC attendees might understand, in context.

But when Trump stated,

Quote from: trump on Feb. 26
And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.

how did Trump fans interpret this?

Is that meant to keep us going, similar to how you tell kids that the drive is almost done -- "Only a few more minutes" -- when it's really going to be an hour? Or is he projecting to the future, months from now, when there really will be only 15 people left who have it?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: MasterStache on April 14, 2020, 12:19:46 PM
Pro-fossil fuel talking heads have been pushing the argument that the manufacturing of windmills and solar panels is inefficient and creates more pollution than the use of alternative energy devices saves.  After all, they say, “there is no windmill manufacturing plant that is powered by windmills”.  Someone told him that manufacturing of windmills produces polution. 

Only because it's true.
No it is not true. 
https://solarcraft.com/solar-energy-myths-facts/ (https://solarcraft.com/solar-energy-myths-facts/)
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Davnasty on April 14, 2020, 12:25:24 PM
Quote from: Trump
I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody I know.

He never understood wind but he has studied windmills better than anybody he knows. Wha??? That guy has dementia!!!11!

Let's be fair to Trump, and give the full quote:

“I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes. Gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”


The president contradicted himself, went on a totally unrelated tangent, shows a dangerous lack of knowledge of the topic being discussed, and threw in some totally unrelated things that popped into his addled mind.

Remind me again, what exactly has Biden said that is more dementia riddled than that?

He said he doesn't understand why people push wind power so much.  I kind of agree with that to some extent.  And that the manufacturing of turbines is dirty and done in countries with little pollution control.

That is not what he said.  Maybe that's what he meant to say?

I'm not sure what to say.  You posted the quote.  That's literally what he said.

And by the way, that's not the actual script of his speech.  It's cut up, probably intentionally.  Shocking, right?  The media would actually piece together sentences to make it appear more jumbled and show the president in a bad light?  Nahhh....  Oh, I guess that's exactly what they did.

Nothing about his speech was hard to comprehend.  It's easy to disagree with it, but hard to comprehend it?  Come on...

OK, so here's the full quote:

"I never understood wind. You know, I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody I know. It’s very expensive. They’re made in China and Germany mostly, very few made here, almost none. But they’re manufactured — tremendous, if you’re into this, tremendous fumes, gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything — you talk about the “carbon footprint” — fumes are spewing into the air, right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything, right? "

The mental gymnastics to defend this as "[not] hard to comprehend" are next level. I'll admit that I understand what he was getting at now after this discussion, hearing the quote multiple times, and reading articles about it, but on first listen this was incomprehensible word salad.

Speaking of word salad, in psychiatry this term is used to describe the unintelligible mutterings of someone with schizophrenia. If you were to record the mutterings of a schizophrenic and listen to them repeatedly in an attempt to analyze their meaning, you could probably piece together what they were attempting to say. After all, the words may seem random, but in reality even an unstable schizophrenic usually knows what they're trying to say, the words just don't come out right. Sound familiar?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Malloy on April 14, 2020, 12:49:17 PM
The mental gymnastics to defend this as "[not] hard to comprehend" are next level. I'll admit that I understand what he was getting at now after this discussion, hearing the quote multiple times, and reading articles about it, but on first listen this was incomprehensible word salad.

It's worse than that. The same people who are arguing that this makes total sense and that (and this is rich) Trump is really sharp are ALSO arguing that Joe Biden has cognitive decline.  They haven't provided any evidence other than Joe Rogan said so. Of course Joe Rogan considers Alex "gay pizzagate Sandy Hook truther frogs" a good friend, so I'm not sure he's an authority on mental decline. 

I can't speak for the intentions of the OP, but it makes me wonder why no one is actually providing examples of this apparent Biden mental decline that is "clear" (so clear that no one has to provide evidence?) if people are honestly interested in figuring out the answer to this question. My take is that Biden is out an out of touch old guy who isn't as sharp as he used to be, but does not have dementia. My evidence is that I saw his one-on-one Bernie debate, and he seemed with it. I suggest that people who are genuinely interested in this watch that debate and avoid selectively edited youtube videos produced by Bernie Sanders deadend supporters.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: scottish on April 14, 2020, 03:34:18 PM
I was just trying to find some information on Joe Biden's mental state out of curiosity.   Someone posted a link to an Atlantic article back on page 1.  I thought that was helpful.

I didn't intend for the thread to turn into another thread criticizing  Trump, even though I contributed to this.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Cadman on April 14, 2020, 04:01:54 PM
Getting back to the topic of Joe Biden's mental shape, I really do wonder what the hell is going on. Some things you can chalk up to a speech impediment, but the finger-nibbling, hair-smelling and side-tracked discussion about rubbing his hairy legs give me serious pause.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/ (https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/)
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: dandarc on April 14, 2020, 04:08:41 PM
Joe Rogan is the guy that hosted fear factor, right? Encouraging people to eat bugs and so on?

Or is this a different person?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Pizzabrewer on April 14, 2020, 04:56:47 PM
Joe Rogan is the guy that hosted fear factor, right? Encouraging people to eat bugs and so on?

Or is this a different person?

Ha!  My favorite moment from Fear Factor was when they ate pig anus. Joe said “one of you will go home with $15000 and the title of Fear Factor champ. The rest of you will just go home knowing what a pig’s poop chute tastes like”

I don’t think I need to point out the obvious parallels.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Davnasty on April 14, 2020, 05:14:57 PM
Getting back to the topic of Joe Biden's mental shape, I really do wonder what the hell is going on. Some things you can chalk up to a speech impediment, but the finger-nibbling, hair-smelling and side-tracked discussion about rubbing his hairy legs give me serious pause.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/ (https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/)

Things like the finger biting is 100% a non-issue. She waved her hand inches from his face and that was a humorous way of letting her know he was there.

Hair smelling, close standing, and touching; it's weird and he should take notice that it makes people uncomfortable and stop doing it. But I've known quite a few people like this. They do tend to be of an older generation but It's got nothing to do with dementia or sexual gratification, it's just the way they show affection.

As for the corn pop/pool story, that was really weird. It was also from 2017 so I don't see it as evidence of a recent mental decline, he's always told weird stories. And while it was super weird, it wasn't non-sense the way it's been presented. Kids do weird stuff like play with leg hairs.

If you watch the whole speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihV9yrZRHg&feature=youtu.be) it seems like there's a few points where he had something planned to say but he just left parts out so it didn't make sense or he said the wrong thing and pushed through rather than correcting himself. If I could give any defense it would be that he seemed to be talking to a very specific crowd, sometimes even addressing and pointing to a specific person, so that individual may have had context for some of his stories that we did not. All in all it was a poor speech poorly delivered and I hope this isn't what we have to look forward to with a president Biden.

Is it evidence of dementia? Maybe, but again it's from 2017. Dementia tends to ramp up pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Samuel on April 15, 2020, 03:02:53 PM
Joe Rogan is the guy that hosted fear factor, right? Encouraging people to eat bugs and so on?

Or is this a different person?

Yep, same guy. But more importantly he now also gets 1.5 billion downloads a year of his podcast (and perhaps half that number in YouTube views).
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on April 15, 2020, 04:03:50 PM
I don't envy the American people's options right now.  Not sure what else to say.  Here's hoping the old guard gets washed out by 2024!
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Pizzabrewer on April 15, 2020, 04:07:35 PM
I don't envy the American people's options right now.  Not sure what else to say.  Here's hoping the old guard gets washed out by 2024!

We won’t survive that long. A ham sandwich would be a better president than what we’ve got. Biden has to win.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on April 15, 2020, 04:30:13 PM
A ham sandwich would be a better president than what we’ve got.

Perhaps a horse would be a better choice.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: nessness on April 15, 2020, 05:29:43 PM
Biden wasn't my choice for the Democratic nomination, but at the very least I think he would hire a competent staff and appoint competent judges, which is a heck of a lot better than what we have going on now.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: FINate on April 15, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Getting back to the topic of Joe Biden's mental shape, I really do wonder what the hell is going on. Some things you can chalk up to a speech impediment, but the finger-nibbling, hair-smelling and side-tracked discussion about rubbing his hairy legs give me serious pause.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/ (https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/)

Things like the finger biting is 100% a non-issue. She waved her hand inches from his face and that was a humorous way of letting her know he was there.

Hair smelling, close standing, and touching; it's weird and he should take notice that it makes people uncomfortable and stop doing it. But I've known quite a few people like this. They do tend to be of an older generation but It's got nothing to do with dementia or sexual gratification, it's just the way they show affection.

As for the corn pop/pool story, that was really weird. It was also from 2017 so I don't see it as evidence of a recent mental decline, he's always told weird stories. And while it was super weird, it wasn't non-sense the way it's been presented. Kids do weird stuff like play with leg hairs.

If you watch the whole speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihV9yrZRHg&feature=youtu.be) it seems like there's a few points where he had something planned to say but he just left parts out so it didn't make sense or he said the wrong thing and pushed through rather than correcting himself. If I could give any defense it would be that he seemed to be talking to a very specific crowd, sometimes even addressing and pointing to a specific person, so that individual may have had context for some of his stories that we did not. All in all it was a poor speech poorly delivered and I hope this isn't what we have to look forward to with a president Biden.

Is it evidence of dementia? Maybe, but again it's from 2017. Dementia tends to ramp up pretty quickly.

Even with an explanation/backstory things like this still come across as weird to most people. Ask yourself, how would you feel if W. Bush did these things?

Playfully nibbling your wife's fingers in private or in the company of dear friends: no problem. But for a politician in the public arena? Weird ... there's no way around it.

Why tell the weird pool-hairy-leg story to begin with? Why even go there? It's bizarre to bring this up.

RE touching/smelling/affection -- There are two types of people in this world: those who can give hugs and be exuberantly affectionate with everyone without coming across as creepy, and those who can't. If you're not in the former group (and I'm not) then no amount of "it's just how I show affection" matters. He should stop this behavior, like years ago.

I'm also bewildered by the presumptive nomination of Biden. Surely there must be someone that's both more vigorous and less gaffe prone?

Strange times.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 15, 2020, 06:51:37 PM
Getting back to the topic of Joe Biden's mental shape, I really do wonder what the hell is going on. Some things you can chalk up to a speech impediment, but the finger-nibbling, hair-smelling and side-tracked discussion about rubbing his hairy legs give me serious pause.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/ (https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/)

Things like the finger biting is 100% a non-issue. She waved her hand inches from his face and that was a humorous way of letting her know he was there.

Hair smelling, close standing, and touching; it's weird and he should take notice that it makes people uncomfortable and stop doing it. But I've known quite a few people like this. They do tend to be of an older generation but It's got nothing to do with dementia or sexual gratification, it's just the way they show affection.

As for the corn pop/pool story, that was really weird. It was also from 2017 so I don't see it as evidence of a recent mental decline, he's always told weird stories. And while it was super weird, it wasn't non-sense the way it's been presented. Kids do weird stuff like play with leg hairs.

If you watch the whole speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihV9yrZRHg&feature=youtu.be) it seems like there's a few points where he had something planned to say but he just left parts out so it didn't make sense or he said the wrong thing and pushed through rather than correcting himself. If I could give any defense it would be that he seemed to be talking to a very specific crowd, sometimes even addressing and pointing to a specific person, so that individual may have had context for some of his stories that we did not. All in all it was a poor speech poorly delivered and I hope this isn't what we have to look forward to with a president Biden.

Is it evidence of dementia? Maybe, but again it's from 2017. Dementia tends to ramp up pretty quickly.

Even with an explanation/backstory things like this still come across as weird to most people. Ask yourself, how would you feel if W. Bush did these things?

Playfully nibbling your wife's fingers in private or in the company of dear friends: no problem. But for a politician in the public arena? Weird ... there's no way around it.

Why tell the weird pool-hairy-leg story to begin with? Why even go there? It's bizarre to bring this up.

RE touching/smelling/affection -- There are two types of people in this world: those who can give hugs and be exuberantly affectionate with everyone without coming across as creepy, and those who can't. If you're not in the former group (and I'm not) then no amount of "it's just how I show affection" matters. He should stop this behavior, like years ago.

I'm also bewildered by the presumptive nomination of Biden. Surely there must be someone that's both more vigorous and less gaffe prone?

Strange times.

So....

Who can?

And who can’t?

And how can you tell?

Also, who decides?

Also... what if you do the same to both women and men? What does that mean?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: FINate on April 15, 2020, 07:11:32 PM
Getting back to the topic of Joe Biden's mental shape, I really do wonder what the hell is going on. Some things you can chalk up to a speech impediment, but the finger-nibbling, hair-smelling and side-tracked discussion about rubbing his hairy legs give me serious pause.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/ (https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/)

Things like the finger biting is 100% a non-issue. She waved her hand inches from his face and that was a humorous way of letting her know he was there.

Hair smelling, close standing, and touching; it's weird and he should take notice that it makes people uncomfortable and stop doing it. But I've known quite a few people like this. They do tend to be of an older generation but It's got nothing to do with dementia or sexual gratification, it's just the way they show affection.

As for the corn pop/pool story, that was really weird. It was also from 2017 so I don't see it as evidence of a recent mental decline, he's always told weird stories. And while it was super weird, it wasn't non-sense the way it's been presented. Kids do weird stuff like play with leg hairs.

If you watch the whole speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihV9yrZRHg&feature=youtu.be) it seems like there's a few points where he had something planned to say but he just left parts out so it didn't make sense or he said the wrong thing and pushed through rather than correcting himself. If I could give any defense it would be that he seemed to be talking to a very specific crowd, sometimes even addressing and pointing to a specific person, so that individual may have had context for some of his stories that we did not. All in all it was a poor speech poorly delivered and I hope this isn't what we have to look forward to with a president Biden.

Is it evidence of dementia? Maybe, but again it's from 2017. Dementia tends to ramp up pretty quickly.

Even with an explanation/backstory things like this still come across as weird to most people. Ask yourself, how would you feel if W. Bush did these things?

Playfully nibbling your wife's fingers in private or in the company of dear friends: no problem. But for a politician in the public arena? Weird ... there's no way around it.

Why tell the weird pool-hairy-leg story to begin with? Why even go there? It's bizarre to bring this up.

RE touching/smelling/affection -- There are two types of people in this world: those who can give hugs and be exuberantly affectionate with everyone without coming across as creepy, and those who can't. If you're not in the former group (and I'm not) then no amount of "it's just how I show affection" matters. He should stop this behavior, like years ago.

I'm also bewildered by the presumptive nomination of Biden. Surely there must be someone that's both more vigorous and less gaffe prone?

Strange times.

So....

Who can?

And who can’t?

And how can you tell?

Also, who decides?

Also... what if you do the same to both women and men? What does that mean?

Gender doesn't matter. When it comes to touch if you have any inclination that it's making people uncomfortable, either those on the receiving end or those observing, then stop out of respect for others. This is like really basic workplace sexual harassment training stuff.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 15, 2020, 07:39:04 PM
Getting back to the topic of Joe Biden's mental shape, I really do wonder what the hell is going on. Some things you can chalk up to a speech impediment, but the finger-nibbling, hair-smelling and side-tracked discussion about rubbing his hairy legs give me serious pause.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/ (https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/)

Things like the finger biting is 100% a non-issue. She waved her hand inches from his face and that was a humorous way of letting her know he was there.

Hair smelling, close standing, and touching; it's weird and he should take notice that it makes people uncomfortable and stop doing it. But I've known quite a few people like this. They do tend to be of an older generation but It's got nothing to do with dementia or sexual gratification, it's just the way they show affection.

As for the corn pop/pool story, that was really weird. It was also from 2017 so I don't see it as evidence of a recent mental decline, he's always told weird stories. And while it was super weird, it wasn't non-sense the way it's been presented. Kids do weird stuff like play with leg hairs.

If you watch the whole speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihV9yrZRHg&feature=youtu.be) it seems like there's a few points where he had something planned to say but he just left parts out so it didn't make sense or he said the wrong thing and pushed through rather than correcting himself. If I could give any defense it would be that he seemed to be talking to a very specific crowd, sometimes even addressing and pointing to a specific person, so that individual may have had context for some of his stories that we did not. All in all it was a poor speech poorly delivered and I hope this isn't what we have to look forward to with a president Biden.

Is it evidence of dementia? Maybe, but again it's from 2017. Dementia tends to ramp up pretty quickly.

Even with an explanation/backstory things like this still come across as weird to most people. Ask yourself, how would you feel if W. Bush did these things?

Playfully nibbling your wife's fingers in private or in the company of dear friends: no problem. But for a politician in the public arena? Weird ... there's no way around it.

Why tell the weird pool-hairy-leg story to begin with? Why even go there? It's bizarre to bring this up.

RE touching/smelling/affection -- There are two types of people in this world: those who can give hugs and be exuberantly affectionate with everyone without coming across as creepy, and those who can't. If you're not in the former group (and I'm not) then no amount of "it's just how I show affection" matters. He should stop this behavior, like years ago.

I'm also bewildered by the presumptive nomination of Biden. Surely there must be someone that's both more vigorous and less gaffe prone?

Strange times.

So....

Who can?

And who can’t?

And how can you tell?

Also, who decides?

Also... what if you do the same to both women and men? What does that mean?

Gender doesn't matter. When it comes to touch if you have any inclination that it's making people uncomfortable, either those on the receiving end or those observing, then stop out of respect for others. This is like really basic workplace sexual harassment training stuff.

I mean, I agree if you have any inclination.

Joe does this to men and women. Does he have any inclination?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: FINate on April 15, 2020, 07:51:13 PM
I mean, I agree if you have any inclination.

Joe does this to men and women. Does he have any inclination?

I don't follow politics or internet culture very closely and yet I've been aware of the Creepy Joe meme for a long time. He should know better.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwngb3/area-man-regrets-helping-turn-joe-biden-into-a-meme
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 15, 2020, 07:59:27 PM
I mean, I agree if you have any inclination.

Joe does this to men and women. Does he have any inclination?

I don't follow politics or internet culture very closely and yet I've been aware of the Creepy Joe meme for a long time. He should know better.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwngb3/area-man-regrets-helping-turn-joe-biden-into-a-meme

So... are memes reality?

And again, Joe does this to both men and women. Does that change anything?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: FINate on April 15, 2020, 09:29:54 PM
I mean, I agree if you have any inclination.

Joe does this to men and women. Does he have any inclination?

I don't follow politics or internet culture very closely and yet I've been aware of the Creepy Joe meme for a long time. He should know better.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwngb3/area-man-regrets-helping-turn-joe-biden-into-a-meme

So... are memes reality?

And again, Joe does this to both men and women. Does that change anything?

The meme is based on multiple women coming forward about being uncomfortable with his handsiness so, yes, it's a reality that can't easily be ignored.

I know the standards for harassment well from years of management, would've been liable for failing to put a stop to it. If Joe was on one of my teams we would have had a "difficult conversation" years ago. If someone feels uncomfortable with affection or anything of that nature (touch, speech, or otherwise) the right response is to stop doing it. Don't blame it on the person ("being overly sensitive") or claim it's okay because you treat everyone (including men) the same -- these are tell-tale behaviors of serial harassers.

Of course, Trump has done much worse. But the Democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, or at least I hope that's the case. So this is the standard they must live by. If Biden gets a pass on this for political expediency reasons then the Democrats open themselves up to charges of hypocrisy. Worse, if voters perceive a double-standard then it plays into Trump's claim he's being unfairly singled out. People will wonder, if the media is uneven in this issue then what else are they being uneven about? This kind of thing plants seeds of doubt.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Davnasty on April 15, 2020, 09:30:47 PM
Getting back to the topic of Joe Biden's mental shape, I really do wonder what the hell is going on. Some things you can chalk up to a speech impediment, but the finger-nibbling, hair-smelling and side-tracked discussion about rubbing his hairy legs give me serious pause.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/ (https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30077381/joe-biden-hairy-legs-swimming-pool-story/)

Things like the finger biting is 100% a non-issue. She waved her hand inches from his face and that was a humorous way of letting her know he was there.

Hair smelling, close standing, and touching; it's weird and he should take notice that it makes people uncomfortable and stop doing it. But I've known quite a few people like this. They do tend to be of an older generation but It's got nothing to do with dementia or sexual gratification, it's just the way they show affection.

As for the corn pop/pool story, that was really weird. It was also from 2017 so I don't see it as evidence of a recent mental decline, he's always told weird stories. And while it was super weird, it wasn't non-sense the way it's been presented. Kids do weird stuff like play with leg hairs.

If you watch the whole speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oihV9yrZRHg&feature=youtu.be) it seems like there's a few points where he had something planned to say but he just left parts out so it didn't make sense or he said the wrong thing and pushed through rather than correcting himself. If I could give any defense it would be that he seemed to be talking to a very specific crowd, sometimes even addressing and pointing to a specific person, so that individual may have had context for some of his stories that we did not. All in all it was a poor speech poorly delivered and I hope this isn't what we have to look forward to with a president Biden.

Is it evidence of dementia? Maybe, but again it's from 2017. Dementia tends to ramp up pretty quickly.

Even with an explanation/backstory things like this still come across as weird to most people. Ask yourself, how would you feel if W. Bush did these things?

Playfully nibbling your wife's fingers in private or in the company of dear friends: no problem. But for a politician in the public arena? Weird ... there's no way around it.

Why tell the weird pool-hairy-leg story to begin with? Why even go there? It's bizarre to bring this up.

RE touching/smelling/affection -- There are two types of people in this world: those who can give hugs and be exuberantly affectionate with everyone without coming across as creepy, and those who can't. If you're not in the former group (and I'm not) then no amount of "it's just how I show affection" matters. He should stop this behavior, like years ago.

I'm also bewildered by the presumptive nomination of Biden. Surely there must be someone that's both more vigorous and less gaffe prone?

Strange times.

Weird. Bizarre. He should change his behavior. That's what I said.

My disagreement was with the idea that this stuff is evidence of mental disorder. I don't believe it is.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on April 15, 2020, 11:04:16 PM
I mean, I agree if you have any inclination.

Joe does this to men and women. Does he have any inclination?

I don't follow politics or internet culture very closely and yet I've been aware of the Creepy Joe meme for a long time. He should know better.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwngb3/area-man-regrets-helping-turn-joe-biden-into-a-meme

So... are memes reality?

And again, Joe does this to both men and women. Does that change anything?

It's a good strategy for getting that progressive vote!
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: partgypsy on April 16, 2020, 06:01:47 AM
Joe Rogan has stated that he would vote for the Donald Trump over Joe Biden because Biden has dementia.


Part of the problem might stem from listening to Joe Rogan..

I liked him in Newsradio. I haven't really kept up with his career since then, and didn't get the sense from that tv show he was the sharpest tack of the bunch or the one who was going to have a breakout career (Rest in Peace Fred Hartman). Life is strange. Anyways I don't rely on infotainment people to decide to who to vote for. Prefer to read original source material (BBC, NYT, local news) and form my own decision.

Biden is definitely not the strongest choice for the Democratic party. But people who are criticising Biden, reminds me of this Jesus take down parable

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
King James Version (KJV)
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: MasterStache on April 16, 2020, 06:16:34 AM
I mean, I agree if you have any inclination.

Joe does this to men and women. Does he have any inclination?

I don't follow politics or internet culture very closely and yet I've been aware of the Creepy Joe meme for a long time. He should know better.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwngb3/area-man-regrets-helping-turn-joe-biden-into-a-meme

So... are memes reality?

And again, Joe does this to both men and women. Does that change anything?

The meme is based on multiple women coming forward about being uncomfortable with his handsiness so, yes, it's a reality that can't easily be ignored.

I know the standards for harassment well from years of management, would've been liable for failing to put a stop to it. If Joe was on one of my teams we would have had a "difficult conversation" years ago. If someone feels uncomfortable with affection or anything of that nature (touch, speech, or otherwise) the right response is to stop doing it. Don't blame it on the person ("being overly sensitive") or claim it's okay because you treat everyone (including men) the same -- these are tell-tale behaviors of serial harassers.

Of course, Trump has done much worse. But the Democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, or at least I hope that's the case. So this is the standard they must live by. If Biden gets a pass on this for political expediency reasons then the Democrats open themselves up to charges of hypocrisy. Worse, if voters perceive a double-standard then it plays into Trump's claim he's being unfairly singled out. People will wonder, if the media is uneven in this issue then what else are they being uneven about? This kind of thing plants seeds of doubt.
If Biden is getting a bit handsy, someone should certainly point it out. This reminds me of what my son's psychologist said when talking about his ASD disorder. You will find just about any neurotypical person can most certainly have a touch of ASD from time to time. In Biden's case, perhaps he isn't picking up on the social cues of getting too handsy. Make no mistake, if a video or audio of him leaked describing how he sexually assaults women, the Dems would most certainly not hand wave it away as the Republicans did with Trump.   
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 16, 2020, 07:15:45 AM
FWIW, I don't like that Joe Biden is so 'handsy' (which I'd argue is a terrible term . . . it's more 'absentminded harassment' than 'handsy' from everything I've seen).  He has been doing this for years, and should know better.  That said, his documented behaviour regarding harassment is still an awful lot better than that of the current president.  So, if behaviour is an important thing to you, the choice to support Biden is still a no-brainer . . . because the alternative is significantly worse on this front.

If on the other hand you don't care about harassment at all and you're just looking for an excuse to hate the democratic nominee . . . well, then jackpot.  You win.  But be honest about your reasons.  Because choosing Trump over Biden for 'harassment' problems . . . well, that's indicative of someone who just isn't paying attention.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on April 16, 2020, 07:43:35 AM
I wish Biden's VP the best of luck--she's gonna need it.  Hopefully we're still social-distancing in November.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 16, 2020, 07:57:40 AM
I wish Biden's VP the best of luck--she's gonna need it.  Hopefully we're still social-distancing in November.

He’d be touchy-feely with a guy, too.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on April 16, 2020, 08:29:13 AM
I wish Biden's VP the best of luck--she's gonna need it.  Hopefully we're still social-distancing in November.

He’d be touchy-feely with a guy, too.

The optics are worse when it's with a female and there's a power imbalance.  Besides, all the images and footage I've seen is with women and girls.  Hard to watch, it's that bad.

A cursory search of "Trump handsy" and "Biden handsy" is really damning for Biden.  The guy is creepy and gross.  I feel sorry for the women in those clips.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 16, 2020, 08:39:08 AM
I wish Biden's VP the best of luck--she's gonna need it.  Hopefully we're still social-distancing in November.

He’d be touchy-feely with a guy, too.

The optics are worse when it's with a female and there's a power imbalance.  Besides, all the images and footage I've seen is with women and girls.  Hard to watch, it's that bad.

A cursory search of "Trump handsy" and "Biden handsy" is really damning for Biden.  The guy is creepy and gross.  I feel sorry for the women in those clips.

And by the way, I do not mean to be flippant when I say that. It's very likely that men are somewhat uncomfortable with his touchi-ness, as well.

But "all the images and footage" you've seen is with women and girls... well, that's feeding a particular narrative, now isn't it? You certainly wouldn't be of the school of thought that the media is completely objective and unbiased, right?

And "a cursory search" of "Trump handsy" isn't gonna turn up as much, because... well, "handsy" is a word that has been repeatedly attributed to Biden by the press. Meaning, more hits. Right?

I mean, when you go looking for something... you're gonna find it.


Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 16, 2020, 08:39:50 AM
And...
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 16, 2020, 08:42:13 AM
And also these last two...

All of which were found by a "cursory search".
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 16, 2020, 09:33:25 AM
Hey!  Keep it suitable for work.  Some of those are pretty steamy . . .
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: wenchsenior on April 16, 2020, 09:41:12 AM
There's an entire website (can't remember the name) devoted to the Biden/Obama bromance, with hundreds of pics, many of them hanging all over each other. 

I wouldn't like Biden's touchiness at all (I want personal space, dammit), but it definitely isn't limited to women.  And I know people like him who just do that automatically without thinking. Again, I don't get it at all.  I mean, I actively do not want to touch most random people I see, let alone have them touch me.  But I have friends who love physical contact with people, even people they've just met.  They feel connection through it and get positive energy from it.

Biden should definitely try to stop it, IMO, but I'm not sure he will be able to change much after a life time of that being his default. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on April 16, 2020, 09:42:40 AM
And "a cursory search"... of what? What terms did you type in?

I mean, when you go looking for something... you're gonna find it.

Indeed!  I typed in "biden handsy", just like I said.  What did you search for, men specifically?  Who's going looking for things here?

This is the first page of my search results--several duplicates, not a single encounter shown with a man.  And the Trump results too, just to be fair.

Finally, if you think that Joe is a better candidate since he's a creep to both genders, I think you're choosing an uphill battle. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 16, 2020, 09:52:15 AM
And "a cursory search"... of what? What terms did you type in?

I mean, when you go looking for something... you're gonna find it.

Indeed!  I typed in "biden handsy", just like I said.  What did you search for, men specifically?  Who's going looking for things here?

This is the first page of my search results--several duplicates, not a single encounter shown with a man.  And the Trump results too, just to be fair.

Finally, if you think that Joe is a better candidate since he's a creep to both genders, I think you're choosing an uphill battle.


I actually edited my original comment on that post, as I hadn't noticed that you mentioned what you typed in.

So, let me paste my edited response here, as it answers your question:

But "all the images and footage" you've seen is with women and girls... well, that's feeding a particular narrative, now isn't it? You certainly wouldn't be of the school of thought that the media is completely objective and unbiased, right?

And "a cursory search" of "Trump handsy" isn't gonna turn up as much, because... well, "handsy" is a word that has been repeatedly attributed to Biden by the press. Meaning, more hits. Right?

I mean, when you go looking for something... you're gonna find it.

Edit: Also... I will reiterate something else in light of your comment that the first page of the search has "not a single encounter shown with a man"...

I think that's kind of making my point. The narrative of "Handsy Biden" is a particular narrative. It's not meant to be objective. It's meant to show him being handsy with women.

Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on April 16, 2020, 10:07:38 AM
I think that's kind of making my point. The narrative of "Handsy Biden" is a particular narrative. It's not meant to be objective. It's meant to show him being handsy with women.

It's a narrative alright.  Whether it was penned by his own actions or the invention of a biased media is up to you, I suppose. 

More generally, I'm pretty disappointed that it's come to this: the people arguing over which creepy old man is less creepy.  This is a presidential race FFS.

It seems that both sides have decided that they have to resist the other side, and there isn't any other substance to it.  No one's even pretending there's a promising option on the table anymore.  Perhaps you disagree.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 16, 2020, 10:18:35 AM
More generally, I'm pretty disappointed that it's come to this: the people arguing over which creepy old man is less creepy.

Is anyone arguing that Biden is more creepy?

Donald Trump raped his first wife (according to the private and legal accounts she gave - until the out of court settlement gagged her on the matter).  He also has currently, or has settled out of court 19 other lawsuits about rape and sexual misconduct with women.  He has bragged on camera about using his power to force sex on women.  He has a well documented history (including public admissions) of abusing his power to walk in on naked women dressing for beauty pageants he held.

Don't get me wrong.  I think Biden's behaviour is poor, and his judgement very questionable.  But if sexual misconduct is an issue that concerns you, there's a clear better choice between Trump and Biden.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 16, 2020, 10:20:44 AM
I think that's kind of making my point. The narrative of "Handsy Biden" is a particular narrative. It's not meant to be objective. It's meant to show him being handsy with women.

It's a narrative alright.  Whether it was penned by his own actions or the invention of a biased media is up to you, I suppose. 

More generally, I'm pretty disappointed that it's come to this: the people arguing over which creepy old man is less creepy.  This is a presidential race FFS.

It seems that both sides have decided that they have to resist the other side, and there isn't any other substance to it.  No one's even pretending there's a promising option on the table anymore.  Perhaps you disagree.

The OP asked whether Joe is in good mental shape.

And then the discussion has morphed, in part, into whether he's basically a sexual assaulter.

It is reasonable to discuss both of those things. And it's also reasonable to discuss whether "creepy old man" is actually creepy, and whether he is an equal opportunity creep.

Whataboutism doesn't really have to enter into it. And I've tried to not do that, if you will notice, in my recent comments to you.

Somehow, you are taking that to mean that I'm arguing over which man is less creepy. And taking me as a representative of my "side." And whether I'm just knee-jerk resisting the other side.

And then "no one's even pretending there's a promising option on the table anymore".... um, which seems to go against everything else you said? If our "side" is resisting looking at creepy handsy Joe Biden as being creepy to women, wouldn't your argument be that we ARE pretending that there's a promising option on the table?



Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: FINate on April 16, 2020, 12:19:03 PM
If Biden is getting a bit handsy, someone should certainly point it out. This reminds me of what my son's psychologist said when talking about his ASD disorder. You will find just about any neurotypical person can most certainly have a touch of ASD from time to time. In Biden's case, perhaps he isn't picking up on the social cues of getting too handsy. Make no mistake, if a video or audio of him leaked describing how he sexually assaults women, the Dems would most certainly not hand wave it away as the Republicans did with Trump.

Maybe he's not picking up on the cues, but that's not a valid defense. Someone at this level of leadership must be capable of picking up on such things. However, he has joked about it (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/05/joe-biden-jokes-allegations-touching-ibew-event/3378281002/) in the past, so I don't believe he's simply unaware.

I realize Trump is worse, but it's a sad day when the Democratic Party sets Trump as the standard to beat. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it at this point. But it will be a problem for his campaign for the reasons I stated above.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: jim555 on April 16, 2020, 02:19:29 PM
Biden is fine.  You should spend your energy on the Orange Menace and not Biden.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: PDXTabs on April 16, 2020, 03:22:24 PM
I realize Trump is worse, but it's a sad day when the Democratic Party sets Trump as the standard to beat. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it at this point. But it will be a problem for his campaign for the reasons I stated above.

Yup.

Reade said Biden pushed her against a wall and penetrated her with his fingers. - https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation

This was while he was married. I hope that the democratic party throws him under a bus between now and the convention, because otherwise I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for come November.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 16, 2020, 03:28:20 PM
I realize Trump is worse, but it's a sad day when the Democratic Party sets Trump as the standard to beat. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it at this point. But it will be a problem for his campaign for the reasons I stated above.

Yup.

Reade said Biden pushed her against a wall and penetrated her with his fingers. - https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation

This was while he was married. I hope that the democratic party throws him under a bus between now and the convention, because otherwise I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for come November.

The news that she has decided to file a criminal complaint is new to me. This article barely says anything about that... does anyone have a source that gives more information?

Edit: I’ve been looking around at more sources... not a lot more info available, and apparently not much will be unless criminal charges are filed, which is unlikely.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Samuel on April 16, 2020, 03:40:19 PM
If Biden is getting a bit handsy, someone should certainly point it out. This reminds me of what my son's psychologist said when talking about his ASD disorder. You will find just about any neurotypical person can most certainly have a touch of ASD from time to time. In Biden's case, perhaps he isn't picking up on the social cues of getting too handsy. Make no mistake, if a video or audio of him leaked describing how he sexually assaults women, the Dems would most certainly not hand wave it away as the Republicans did with Trump.

Maybe he's not picking up on the cues, but that's not a valid defense. Someone at this level of leadership must be capable of picking up on such things. However, he has joked about it (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/05/joe-biden-jokes-allegations-touching-ibew-event/3378281002/) in the past, so I don't believe he's simply unaware.

I realize Trump is worse, but it's a sad day when the Democratic Party sets Trump as the standard to beat. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it at this point. But it will be a problem for his campaign for the reasons I stated above.

Considering he directly addressed the issue a year ago and promised to change his behavior (have there been examples since then?) I'd wager he's aware of the personal space problem:

“I shake hands, I hug people, I grab men and women by the shoulders and say, ‘You can do this.’ Whether they are women, men, young, old, it’s the way I’ve always been. It’s the way I show I care about them, that I listen,” he said. “Social norms have begun to change, they’ve shifted. And the boundaries of protecting personal space have been reset. And I get it. I get it. I hear what they’re saying, I understand it. And I’ll be much more mindful. That’s my responsibility and I’ll meet it.”
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/3/18294162/joe-biden-touching-allegations-response (https://www.vox.com/2019/4/3/18294162/joe-biden-touching-allegations-response)



As for his mental acuity... he's lost some speed on his fastball but he's always been a gaffe prone guy with a life long speech disorder. There are a few particularly bad examples floating around out there but he seemed fine in the debates I saw. All this speculation seems like kind a waste of time (and/or a pushed narrative) since it'll become clear one way or another once the head to head campaigning begins. There's no way to hide true mental insufficiency all the way to November.

I do wonder what kind of contingency planning is being done within the DNC, though. They must be making plans for what would happen if Biden withdraws before or after the convention. I bet there's a lot of jockeying to be the designated replacement (sorry Bernie, doubt it'll be you).
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Samuel on April 16, 2020, 04:25:06 PM
I realize Trump is worse, but it's a sad day when the Democratic Party sets Trump as the standard to beat. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it at this point. But it will be a problem for his campaign for the reasons I stated above.

Yup.

Reade said Biden pushed her against a wall and penetrated her with his fingers. - https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation

This was while he was married. I hope that the democratic party throws him under a bus between now and the convention, because otherwise I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for come November.

The news that she has decided to file a criminal complaint is new to me. This article barely says anything about that... does anyone have a source that gives more information?

The statute of limitations has expired so it's basically just a formal report. That she's willing to tell the story under penalty of perjury is new, but that's about it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tara-reade-files-criminal-complaint-against-joe-biden-2020-4 (https://www.businessinsider.com/tara-reade-files-criminal-complaint-against-joe-biden-2020-4)
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: FINate on April 16, 2020, 05:29:11 PM
I realize Trump is worse, but it's a sad day when the Democratic Party sets Trump as the standard to beat. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it at this point. But it will be a problem for his campaign for the reasons I stated above.

Yup.

Reade said Biden pushed her against a wall and penetrated her with his fingers. - https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21195935/joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation

This was while he was married. I hope that the democratic party throws him under a bus between now and the convention, because otherwise I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for come November.

The news that she has decided to file a criminal complaint is new to me. This article barely says anything about that... does anyone have a source that gives more information?

The statute of limitations has expired so it's basically just a formal report. That she's willing to tell the story under penalty of perjury is new, but that's about it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tara-reade-files-criminal-complaint-against-joe-biden-2020-4 (https://www.businessinsider.com/tara-reade-files-criminal-complaint-against-joe-biden-2020-4)

"For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real" -- Joe Biden

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/joe-biden-when-a-woman-alleges-sexual-assault-presume-she-is-telling-the-truth/2018/09/17/7718c532-badd-11e8-a8aa-860695e7f3fc_story.html
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: js82 on April 17, 2020, 06:56:07 AM
I realize Trump is worse, but it's a sad day when the Democratic Party sets Trump as the standard to beat. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it at this point. But it will be a problem for his campaign for the reasons I stated above.

Sadly, I agree.  If there's one thing our country needs right now it's a leader who can raise the bar - both in terms of personal conduct, and in terms of the level of political discourse and the way we talk about "the issues".

I'm not convinced there's a "good" choice with respect to the above if our choices are Biden and Trump.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: American GenX on April 18, 2020, 06:44:30 AM
Biden is fine.  You should spend your energy on the Orange Menace and not Biden.

Absolutely.  I'm very happy it's come down to Biden against Trump.  We have a good chance of getting rid of Trump now with the election.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: gentmach on April 19, 2020, 07:05:42 AM
If Biden is getting a bit handsy, someone should certainly point it out. This reminds me of what my son's psychologist said when talking about his ASD disorder. You will find just about any neurotypical person can most certainly have a touch of ASD from time to time. In Biden's case, perhaps he isn't picking up on the social cues of getting too handsy. Make no mistake, if a video or audio of him leaked describing how he sexually assaults women, the Dems would most certainly not hand wave it away as the Republicans did with Trump.

Maybe he's not picking up on the cues, but that's not a valid defense. Someone at this level of leadership must be capable of picking up on such things. However, he has joked about it (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/05/joe-biden-jokes-allegations-touching-ibew-event/3378281002/) in the past, so I don't believe he's simply unaware.

I realize Trump is worse, but it's a sad day when the Democratic Party sets Trump as the standard to beat. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it at this point. But it will be a problem for his campaign for the reasons I stated above.

Considering he directly addressed the issue a year ago and promised to change his behavior (have there been examples since then?) I'd wager he's aware of the personal space problem:

“I shake hands, I hug people, I grab men and women by the shoulders and say, ‘You can do this.’ Whether they are women, men, young, old, it’s the way I’ve always been. It’s the way I show I care about them, that I listen,” he said. “Social norms have begun to change, they’ve shifted. And the boundaries of protecting personal space have been reset. And I get it. I get it. I hear what they’re saying, I understand it. And I’ll be much more mindful. That’s my responsibility and I’ll meet it.”
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/3/18294162/joe-biden-touching-allegations-response (https://www.vox.com/2019/4/3/18294162/joe-biden-touching-allegations-response)



As for his mental acuity... he's lost some speed on his fastball but he's always been a gaffe prone guy with a life long speech disorder. There are a few particularly bad examples floating around out there but he seemed fine in the debates I saw. All this speculation seems like kind a waste of time (and/or a pushed narrative) since it'll become clear one way or another once the head to head campaigning begins. There's no way to hide true mental insufficiency all the way to November.

I do wonder what kind of contingency planning is being done within the DNC, though. They must be making plans for what would happen if Biden withdraws before or after the convention. I bet there's a lot of jockeying to be the designated replacement (sorry Bernie, doubt it'll be you).

No one knew FDR had polio. JFK had Addison's disease that the public was never told about. They have experience with this kind of thing.

And in the case of the DNC choosing someone, be prepared for "Selected, not elected" chants. The DNC pulling a bait and switch would be worse than anything else.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: PDXTabs on April 19, 2020, 08:06:07 PM
And in the case of the DNC choosing someone, be prepared for "Selected, not elected" chants. The DNC pulling a bait and switch would be worse than anything else.

I'm not sure if I agree. If Biden publicly stepped down for the good of the party things might be just fine.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: gentmach on April 19, 2020, 09:21:01 PM
And in the case of the DNC choosing someone, be prepared for "Selected, not elected" chants. The DNC pulling a bait and switch would be worse than anything else.

I'm not sure if I agree. If Biden publicly stepped down for the good of the party things might be just fine.

Who does Biden endorse that creates trust and good will? Biden was chosen by voters because he was a moderate. Everyone else was too far left. If they had any traction we wouldn't have this problem right now.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Caroline PF on April 19, 2020, 10:25:54 PM
Yes, I believe Biden is suffering from early dementia. It's not the speech issues or forgetting words. What has convinced me is the lack of emotional regulation (losing his temper with voters, and getting aggressive) and the context-inappropriate behaviors (nibbling on his wife's finger - fine when they are alone or in the company of friends, but inappropriate when in front of a crowd). Both are very common signs of executive dysfunction (frontal lobe injury), and are often present in early dementia.

Beyond the dementia, I think he is a shit person. His behaviors that routinely make people around him uncomfortable, yet he refuses to change. There is no way that he is unaware of these issues. They have been brought up in the media multiple times, and he is a politician, and needs to finesse his image. Aides would certainly let him know. And the times I have heard him address these issues, he just says that this is the way he is, and he's not going to change. Other people need to not be bothered by him. So, shit person.

Having said all of that, if he is running against Trump in the national election, I will vote for him. Because I believe that Trump is doing actual damage to our democracy, while also being a terrible leader and human being. And I hate that our system works this way. I shouldn't have to vote for the lesser of two evils because we only have two candidates because our system essentially blocks any third party from gaining power. And I don't even have a voice in the primaries to choose who gets to run. My state's primary is coming up next month. And everyone else has already dropped out of the race. I'm still going to vote in the primary for someone who has dropped out, just as a sign of rebellion.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Davnasty on April 20, 2020, 07:29:54 AM
Beyond the dementia, I think he is a shit person. His behaviors that routinely make people around him uncomfortable, yet he refuses to change. There is no way that he is unaware of these issues. They have been brought up in the media multiple times, and he is a politician, and needs to finesse his image. Aides would certainly let him know. And the times I have heard him address these issues, he just says that this is the way he is, and he's not going to change. Other people need to not be bothered by him. So, shit person.

This was posted upthread:

Considering he directly addressed the issue a year ago and promised to change his behavior (have there been examples since then?) I'd wager he's aware of the personal space problem:

“I shake hands, I hug people, I grab men and women by the shoulders and say, ‘You can do this.’ Whether they are women, men, young, old, it’s the way I’ve always been. It’s the way I show I care about them, that I listen,” he said. “Social norms have begun to change, they’ve shifted. And the boundaries of protecting personal space have been reset. And I get it. I get it. I hear what they’re saying, I understand it. And I’ll be much more mindful. That’s my responsibility and I’ll meet it.”
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/3/18294162/joe-biden-touching-allegations-response
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Samuel on April 20, 2020, 09:11:46 AM
"For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real" -- Joe Biden

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/joe-biden-when-a-woman-alleges-sexual-assault-presume-she-is-telling-the-truth/2018/09/17/7718c532-badd-11e8-a8aa-860695e7f3fc_story.html

Yeah, there is real hypocrisy problem here, both for Biden and other prominent Democrats. They got swept up in the outrage over Kavanaugh and set some problematic precedents about how to treat essentially unprovable claims from decades ago that they'll have to wiggle back away from now. Won't look good, but probably not a nomination killer on its own.

And in the case of the DNC choosing someone, be prepared for "Selected, not elected" chants. The DNC pulling a bait and switch would be worse than anything else.

I'm not sure if I agree. If Biden publicly stepped down for the good of the party things might be just fine.

Who does Biden endorse that creates trust and good will? Biden was chosen by voters because he was a moderate. Everyone else was too far left. If they had any traction we wouldn't have this problem right now.

That's my concern. Biden basically is the elder statesman option, a known quantity palatable enough to a large enough number of Democrats to be seen as the best chance to escape this crazy train. If he bows out who has the credibility to step in to that role without causing a riot from the Bernie wing (who would point to delegate count and insist Bernie step in)? Does the DNC have another elder statesman/woman in the wings who can assume the nomination without causing an internal civil war ("DNC robs Bernie a third time!") or a Bernie nomination the DNC and most of the Democrats are pretty sure will lose (edit: and potentially hurt Democrats in other races)?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: sixwings on April 20, 2020, 01:31:43 PM
Warren or someone like that would probably be a pretty good compromise candidate.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: gentmach on April 20, 2020, 11:42:39 PM
Warren or someone like that would probably be a pretty good compromise candidate.

She still has that "knifed Bernie in the back" issue.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 21, 2020, 06:03:17 AM
Warren or someone like that would probably be a pretty good compromise candidate.

She still has that "knifed Bernie in the back" issue.

Wait, what?

You mean she disagreed with him openly in a debate?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: gentmach on April 21, 2020, 08:44:23 AM
Warren or someone like that would probably be a pretty good compromise candidate.

She still has that "knifed Bernie in the back" issue.

Wait, what?

You mean she disagreed with him openly in a debate?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-meeting/index.html

Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, sources say

She went along with this far enough not to shake his hand post debate.

Despite Bernie's denials CNN decided to ask debate questions as if it were true.

The timing was odd because Warren's poll numbers were flagging to the lowest point when she suddenly decided to claim this.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 21, 2020, 09:30:23 AM
Warren or someone like that would probably be a pretty good compromise candidate.

She still has that "knifed Bernie in the back" issue.

Wait, what?

You mean she disagreed with him openly in a debate?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-meeting/index.html

Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, sources say

She went along with this far enough not to shake his hand post debate.

Despite Bernie's denials CNN decided to ask debate questions as if it were true.

The timing was odd because Warren's poll numbers were flagging to the lowest point when she suddenly decided to claim this.

Meh. Whatever.

I like Warren, but I don't think Joe's campaign will choose her as VP.

Of course, I'm not an insider. I just don't think they will.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: wenchsenior on April 21, 2020, 10:17:53 AM
Warren or someone like that would probably be a pretty good compromise candidate.

She still has that "knifed Bernie in the back" issue.

Wait, what?

You mean she disagreed with him openly in a debate?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-meeting/index.html

Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, sources say

She went along with this far enough not to shake his hand post debate.

Despite Bernie's denials CNN decided to ask debate questions as if it were true.

The timing was odd because Warren's poll numbers were flagging to the lowest point when she suddenly decided to claim this.

Meh. Whatever.

I like Warren, but I don't think Joe's campaign will choose her as VP.

Of course, I'm not an insider. I just don't think they will.

I also doubt they will choose her.  Warren didn't get along with Obama or Biden.  It'll be Klobuchar, Whitmer, or Abrams, I'm guessing. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: bacchi on April 21, 2020, 10:27:14 AM
I also doubt they will choose her.  Warren didn't get along with Obama or Biden.  It'll be Klobuchar, Whitmer, or Abrams, I'm guessing.

Whitmer, at this point, would ensure a MI win for Biden.

Given Kemp's decisions this week, and the likely impact, Abrams might possibly, just maybe, pull in Georgia (it was 53-45 in 2016).
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on April 21, 2020, 10:44:45 AM
My vote is Klobuchar.

Note: This isn't my preference. Just what I think the campaign will choose. We'll see.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: libertarian4321 on May 22, 2020, 12:57:20 PM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

When Trump goes off script, which is often, his speech often gets disordered. His mouth runs quicker than his brain.

Trump runs his mouth without thinking.  He's like a child with no impulse control.

Biden on the other hand, seems to be struggling to even follow a conversation.  It's not just the "good ol' Joe" kind of gaffs he's had for decades.  Now it seems more like "Old Joe" is suffering from serious mental decline.

So we get a choice of the loudmouth with no impulse control, or a guy who may not even remember his own name by the end of his first term.

Two horrific choices.  Again.  Makes me proud to be an American.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: FINate on May 22, 2020, 01:30:53 PM
His most recent gaffe is a doozy on multiple levels: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/22/joe-biden-breakfast-club-interview-274490

Other than the main race issue getting the most attention, some of his remarks have echoes of "binders full of women" and his staff's attempts to cut the interview short when he started going off script has makes it appear that he's not actually leading things.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: dandarc on May 22, 2020, 03:16:27 PM
Kinda want Biden to go full Bulworth. Would make for an entertaining election.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: MilesTeg on May 23, 2020, 12:31:35 AM
Trump says lots of things that sound actually crazy to me.  Like "windmills cause cancer."  Or "I'm a very stable genius."  Or "ISIS uses the Internet better than anybody, except perhaps myself"

When Trump goes off script, which is often, his speech often gets disordered. His mouth runs quicker than his brain.

Trump runs his mouth without thinking.  He's like a child with no impulse control.

Biden on the other hand, seems to be struggling to even follow a conversation.  It's not just the "good ol' Joe" kind of gaffs he's had for decades.  Now it seems more like "Old Joe" is suffering from serious mental decline.

So we get a choice of the loudmouth with no impulse control, or a guy who may not even remember his own name by the end of his first term.

Two horrific choices.  Again.  Makes me proud to be an American.

The truth is the dude who can't remember his name is still a massive upgrade. It's a sad truth, but a truth none the less
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: scottish on May 23, 2020, 07:37:18 AM
Yeah, Trump will never forget his name.   Aside from that, I'm not sure his cognitive abilities are actually better than Biden's.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: iris lily on May 23, 2020, 08:01:07 AM
I don’t think Biden’s comment about the black card is especially egregious. These guys in the national arena spout tons of stuff, and then a tiny portion of it is picked out to characterize them on. It doesn’t mean I’ll vote for him, I won’t. But this gotcha political reporting  environment is very tiresome.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: js82 on May 23, 2020, 08:46:35 AM
His most recent gaffe is a doozy on multiple levels: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/22/joe-biden-breakfast-club-interview-274490

Other than the main race issue getting the most attention, some of his remarks have echoes of "binders full of women" and his staff's attempts to cut the interview short when he started going off script has makes it appear that he's not actually leading things.

This really should be his cue to just go away.  This will cost him votes, possibly enough to swing the election.

So we get a choice of the loudmouth with no impulse control, or a guy who may not even remember his own name by the end of his first term.

Two horrific choices.  Again.  Makes me proud to be an American.

It's not the lack of impulse control, it's the narcissistic personality traits.

While I'm not sure I can support either one in this situation, narcissism is an even more dangerous trait in a leader than mental incompetence.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Fireball on May 23, 2020, 12:01:39 PM
I don’t think Biden’s comment about the black card is especially egregious. These guys in the national arena spout tons of stuff, and then a tiny portion of it is picked out to characterize them on. It doesn’t mean I’ll vote for him, I won’t. But this gotcha political reporting  environment is very tiresome.

I don't think it's a giant deal either, but we'll have to see what the polls look like in a couple weeks. Many African Americans who like Biden probably already have similar feelings to the overall point he was trying to make. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: big_owl on May 23, 2020, 01:01:54 PM
No Biden is not in good mental shape. Good lord, you're a career politician.  You have like two responsibilities.... One of which is to not say blatant racist shit and make a fool of yourself. You fail miserably at that over and over again.  Ergo, you actually are a racist or a mental retard.  Either option is not good for a president.  I thought for sure Biden would beat trump but now I don't know.

New prediction.  If there's a covid vaccine by November Trump will clean biden's clock. It won't even be close.  Frankly I'm not sure Biden will avoid the funny farm that long anyway.

I mean, he literally said "ain't" and "man" in reference to black people. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on May 23, 2020, 01:10:57 PM
No Biden is not in good mental shape. Good lord, you're a career politician.  You have like two responsibilities.... One of which is to not say blatant racist shit and make a fool of yourself. You fail miserably at that over and over again.  Ergo, you actually are a racist or a mental retard.  Either option is not good for a president.  I thought for sure Biden would beat trump but now I don't know.

New prediction.  If there's a covid vaccine by November Trump will clean biden's clock. It won't even be close.  Frankly I'm not sure Biden will avoid the funny farm that long anyway.

I mean, he literally said "ain't" and "man" in reference to black people.

You, uh... kinda derailed your argument with the “mental retard” remark.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: big_owl on May 23, 2020, 01:24:53 PM
No Biden is not in good mental shape. Good lord, you're a career politician.  You have like two responsibilities.... One of which is to not say blatant racist shit and make a fool of yourself. You fail miserably at that over and over again.  Ergo, you actually are a racist or a mental retard.  Either option is not good for a president.  I thought for sure Biden would beat trump but now I don't know.

New prediction.  If there's a covid vaccine by November Trump will clean biden's clock. It won't even be close.  Frankly I'm not sure Biden will avoid the funny farm that long anyway.

I mean, he literally said "ain't" and "man" in reference to black people.

You, uh... kinda derailed your argument with the “mental retard” remark.

The difference being, I'm not running for fucking president.  It's literally so easy to avoid saying racist shit when that's basically your entire job. I'm an engineer, it's like me saying V doesn't equal IR.  It's basic shit.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on May 23, 2020, 01:35:11 PM
No Biden is not in good mental shape. Good lord, you're a career politician.  You have like two responsibilities.... One of which is to not say blatant racist shit and make a fool of yourself. You fail miserably at that over and over again.  Ergo, you actually are a racist or a mental retard.  Either option is not good for a president.  I thought for sure Biden would beat trump but now I don't know.

New prediction.  If there's a covid vaccine by November Trump will clean biden's clock. It won't even be close.  Frankly I'm not sure Biden will avoid the funny farm that long anyway.

I mean, he literally said "ain't" and "man" in reference to black people.

You, uh... kinda derailed your argument with the “mental retard” remark.

The difference being, I'm not running for fucking president.  It's literally so easy to avoid saying racist shit when that's basically your entire job. I'm an engineer, it's like me saying V doesn't equal IR.  It's basic shit.

When your argument about someone is disparaging them for not showing good judgment... and literally while you’re making your argument, you display very poor judgment...

Your judgment itself comes into question.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: big_owl on May 23, 2020, 01:43:10 PM
No Biden is not in good mental shape. Good lord, you're a career politician.  You have like two responsibilities.... One of which is to not say blatant racist shit and make a fool of yourself. You fail miserably at that over and over again.  Ergo, you actually are a racist or a mental retard.  Either option is not good for a president.  I thought for sure Biden would beat trump but now I don't know.

New prediction.  If there's a covid vaccine by November Trump will clean biden's clock. It won't even be close.  Frankly I'm not sure Biden will avoid the funny farm that long anyway.

I mean, he literally said "ain't" and "man" in reference to black people.

You, uh... kinda derailed your argument with the “mental retard” remark.

The difference being, I'm not running for fucking president.  It's literally so easy to avoid saying racist shit when that's basically your entire job. I'm an engineer, it's like me saying V doesn't equal IR.  It's basic shit.

When your argument about someone is disparaging them for not showing good judgment... and literally while you’re making your argument, you display very poor judgment...

Your judgment itself comes into question.

Well cool Kris you can tell yourself that when you're crying in your beer in November because Biden lost.... Because he's an idiot. A fourth grader has more tact than Biden. And I hate trump. But I'm stuck with this moron biden for God knows what reason.  Bring back Obama.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on May 23, 2020, 01:54:35 PM
No Biden is not in good mental shape. Good lord, you're a career politician.  You have like two responsibilities.... One of which is to not say blatant racist shit and make a fool of yourself. You fail miserably at that over and over again.  Ergo, you actually are a racist or a mental retard.  Either option is not good for a president.  I thought for sure Biden would beat trump but now I don't know.

New prediction.  If there's a covid vaccine by November Trump will clean biden's clock. It won't even be close.  Frankly I'm not sure Biden will avoid the funny farm that long anyway.

I mean, he literally said "ain't" and "man" in reference to black people.

You, uh... kinda derailed your argument with the “mental retard” remark.

The difference being, I'm not running for fucking president.  It's literally so easy to avoid saying racist shit when that's basically your entire job. I'm an engineer, it's like me saying V doesn't equal IR.  It's basic shit.

When your argument about someone is disparaging them for not showing good judgment... and literally while you’re making your argument, you display very poor judgment...

Your judgment itself comes into question.

Well cool Kris you can tell yourself that when you're crying in your beer in November because Biden lost.... Because he's an idiot. A fourth grader has more tact than Biden. And I hate trump. But I'm stuck with this moron biden for God knows what reason.  Bring back Obama.

Biden is a gaffe machine, and always has been, so it is very possible he’ll lose in November. And yeah, I wish someone better was the nominee.

But stop fucking calling people mental retards. It makes your argument look like it came from a yahoo and dilutes your point to homeopathic levels.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: big_owl on May 23, 2020, 02:12:02 PM
No Biden is not in good mental shape. Good lord, you're a career politician.  You have like two responsibilities.... One of which is to not say blatant racist shit and make a fool of yourself. You fail miserably at that over and over again.  Ergo, you actually are a racist or a mental retard.  Either option is not good for a president.  I thought for sure Biden would beat trump but now I don't know.

New prediction.  If there's a covid vaccine by November Trump will clean biden's clock. It won't even be close.  Frankly I'm not sure Biden will avoid the funny farm that long anyway.

I mean, he literally said "ain't" and "man" in reference to black people.

You, uh... kinda derailed your argument with the “mental retard” remark.

The difference being, I'm not running for fucking president.  It's literally so easy to avoid saying racist shit when that's basically your entire job. I'm an engineer, it's like me saying V doesn't equal IR.  It's basic shit.

When your argument about someone is disparaging them for not showing good judgment... and literally while you’re making your argument, you display very poor judgment...

Your judgment itself comes into question.

Well cool Kris you can tell yourself that when you're crying in your beer in November because Biden lost.... Because he's an idiot. A fourth grader has more tact than Biden. And I hate trump. But I'm stuck with this moron biden for God knows what reason.  Bring back Obama.

Biden is a gaffe machine, and always has been, so it is very possible he’ll lose in November. And yeah, I wish someone better was the nominee.

But stop fucking calling people mental retards. It makes your argument look like it came from a yahoo and dilutes your point to homeopathic levels.

Fair enough. I could have chosen better words, I do feel strongly enough that this election has such huge consequences and this is the best the dems could come up with that I'm majorly disenchanted.   At the end of the day I'm left to seriously question biden's cognitive abilities since he can't seem to steer clear of basic racist or sexist shit. I don't even think he's racist but if he can't avoid gaffing racist 101 I don't see how he wins.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on May 23, 2020, 02:49:05 PM
Here's hoping for a much better roster in 2024.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: iris lily on May 23, 2020, 03:39:47 PM
Here's hoping for a much better roster in 2024.
It has been posited that Biden is the DNC’s throwaway candidate because they had pretty much assumed Trump would take the election in November. This was before COVID-19 came to live with us all. But it’s a decent theory that,  they’re saving their good boys for later.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: MasterStache on May 23, 2020, 05:49:40 PM
Here's hoping for a much better roster in 2024.
It has been posited that Biden is the DNC’s throwaway candidate because they had pretty much assumed Trump would take the election in November. This was before COVID-19 came to live with us all. But it’s a decent theory that,  they’re saving their good boys for later.
I don't believe this. I think Biden appealed to more centrist folks and since he was vice president, has some experience already. I think Biden has always been viewed as the most likely to beat Trump. I'm no Biden fan either and normally would be examining/comparing the Republican candidate(s). But since there isn't much of a Republican party left and they went far right with Trump, my vote is already solidified. A few gaffes isn't going to change my opinion. Biden is still light years better than the demagogue we have now. 
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Fireball on May 23, 2020, 11:55:40 PM
Here's hoping for a much better roster in 2024.
It has been posited that Biden is the DNC’s throwaway candidate because they had pretty much assumed Trump would take the election in November. This was before COVID-19 came to live with us all. But it’s a decent theory that,  they’re saving their good boys for later.
I don't believe this. I think Biden appealed to more centrist folks and since he was vice president, has some experience already. I think Biden has always been viewed as the most likely to beat Trump. I'm no Biden fan either and normally would be examining/comparing the Republican candidate(s). But since there isn't much of a Republican party left and they went far right with Trump, my vote is already solidified. A few gaffes isn't going to change my opinion. Biden is still light years better than the demagogue we have now.

Agree. Every politician has gaffes and they always will. Heck, every human for that matter. More importantly, in what direction will they and their staff steer the country? This is where Biden is a FAR better candidate for president than Trump IMO.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on May 24, 2020, 04:54:11 AM
Agree. Every politician has gaffes and they always will. Heck, every human for that matter. More importantly, in what direction will they and their staff steer the country? This is where Biden is a FAR better candidate for president than Trump IMO.

One person's gaffe is another person's racist/sexist impropriety.

How long until Biden calls someone a "retard"?  I'd give it a 15% chance before November.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: rosarugosa on May 24, 2020, 05:09:46 AM
I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on May 24, 2020, 05:26:50 AM
I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.

Not that I blame you, but this blind partisanship is a very bad sign.  Why even talk to the other side?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: MasterStache on May 24, 2020, 06:18:51 AM
I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.

Not that I blame you, but this blind partisanship is a very bad sign.  Why even talk to the other side?
I think it's more of a testament to how bad Trump is as President and human being rather than how partisan you believe people are. Desperate times often call for desperate measures. I've voted Republican and Democrat and as I said earlier, normally I would be comparing and contrasting candidates from both sides right up until election day. Not this time. As for talking to people "on the other side" it's probably safe to say, after everything Trump has done/not done if you still support him, no one is changing your mind.   
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 24, 2020, 06:23:47 AM
Agree. Every politician has gaffes and they always will. Heck, every human for that matter. More importantly, in what direction will they and their staff steer the country? This is where Biden is a FAR better candidate for president than Trump IMO.

One person's gaffe is another person's racist/sexist impropriety.

How long until Biden calls someone a "retard"?  I'd give it a 15% chance before November.

Joe Biden has been a politician (and therefore under public scrutiny) for a really long time now.  Does he have any recorded history of calling people 'retards'?  That's not the kind of thing that just slips out . . . it's indicative of a long standing comfort with using the word indiscriminately.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on May 24, 2020, 06:33:19 AM
I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.

Not that I blame you, but this blind partisanship is a very bad sign.  Why even talk to the other side?
I think it's more of a testament to how bad Trump is as President and human being rather than how partisan you believe people are. Desperate times often call for desperate measure. I've voted for Republic and and Democrat and as I said, normally I would be comparing and contrasting candidates from both sides right up until election day. Not this time. As for talking to people "on the other side" it's probably safe to say, after everything Trump has done/not done if you still support him, no one is changing your mind.


Trump is so bad he caused the Dems to run the worst candidate in recent history?  Huh?  @rosarugosa was pretty clear in their partisan position here: if all that's left is digging one's heels in, regardless of side, there isn't really a discourse is there?

Joe Biden has been a politician (and therefore under public scrutiny) for a really long time now.  Does he have any recorded history of calling people 'retards'?  That's not the kind of thing that just slips out . . . it's indicative of a long standing comfort with using the word indiscriminately.
Time will tell how discriminate he is.  You can take the double meaning here for what it's worth.  The campaign trail is a harrowing one.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on May 24, 2020, 07:52:25 AM
Shared by a friend of mine, and so far pretty indicative of how black people I know are seeing this.

Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: MasterStache on May 24, 2020, 09:16:42 AM
I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.

Not that I blame you, but this blind partisanship is a very bad sign.  Why even talk to the other side?
I think it's more of a testament to how bad Trump is as President and human being rather than how partisan you believe people are. Desperate times often call for desperate measure. I've voted for Republic and and Democrat and as I said, normally I would be comparing and contrasting candidates from both sides right up until election day. Not this time. As for talking to people "on the other side" it's probably safe to say, after everything Trump has done/not done if you still support him, no one is changing your mind.


Trump is so bad he caused the Dems to run the worst candidate in recent history?  Huh? 

Worst seems a bit subjective don't you think? You may think he is the worst, but others certainly disagree. I think they could have done much better. However at this point, a shit sandwich is more appealing than Trump.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: HPstache on May 24, 2020, 09:40:23 AM
Agree. Every politician has gaffes and they always will. Heck, every human for that matter. More importantly, in what direction will they and their staff steer the country? This is where Biden is a FAR better candidate for president than Trump IMO.

One person's gaffe is another person's racist/sexist impropriety.

How long until Biden calls someone a "retard"?  I'd give it a 15% chance before November.

Joe Biden has been a politician (and therefore under public scrutiny) for a really long time now.  Does he have any recorded history of calling people 'retards'?  That's not the kind of thing that just slips out . . . it's indicative of a long standing comfort with using the word indiscriminately.

You sure about that?  How about calling a woman at his rally a "lying dog faced pony soldier"?  Its not "retard" but it is evidence that offensive names to slip out form time to time...

https://youtu.be/TwVrg6UtxXQ
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 24, 2020, 09:40:58 AM
I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.

Not that I blame you, but this blind partisanship is a very bad sign.  Why even talk to the other side?
I think it's more of a testament to how bad Trump is as President and human being rather than how partisan you believe people are. Desperate times often call for desperate measure. I've voted for Republic and and Democrat and as I said, normally I would be comparing and contrasting candidates from both sides right up until election day. Not this time. As for talking to people "on the other side" it's probably safe to say, after everything Trump has done/not done if you still support him, no one is changing your mind.


Trump is so bad he caused the Dems to run the worst candidate in recent history?  Huh? 

Worst seems a bit subjective don't you think? You may think he is the worst, but others certainly disagree. I think they could have done much better. However at this point, a shit sandwich is more appealing than Trump.

What I find interesting is how every candidate that the Democrats run is now the worst candidate in history.  I mean we all heard that Trump won because Hilary was the worst candidate in history.  Obama was a secret death panel loving Muslim and caused the election of Trump too.  And now apparently Biden is the worst in history.  If Bernie Sanders had won, he would have been the worst candidate in history (although this would be for he center-left policies and abrasive nature rather than his tendency to be overly touchy / make gaffes while speaking) .  I suspect that regardless of who is selected for the next election the Democrats will again have 'the worst candidate in history'.

This is because 'Worst candidate in history' appears to be code for 'democratic front runner'.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: bacchi on May 24, 2020, 09:57:21 AM
As 538 put it in a current article, sometimes enthusiasm for a candidate is based on negative partisanship. This is why Roy Moore lost -- 28% of Alabamans didn't switch to the Democratic party in one year.

Why are people shocked that Democrats and NeverTrumpers can do the same?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on May 24, 2020, 12:49:34 PM
Worst seems a bit subjective don't you think? You may think he is the worst, but others certainly disagree. I think they could have done much better. However at this point, a shit sandwich is more appealing than Trump.
Subjective--yes!  Like this entire thread.  I think the dems set themselves up for a better candidate, with their rhetoric and vitriol aimed at Trump, and then delivered a near-equally disappointing shit sandwich.  Who might have a malfunctioning brain. 

What I find interesting is how every candidate that the Democrats run is now the worst candidate in history.  I mean we all heard that Trump won because Hilary was the worst candidate in history.  Obama was a secret death panel loving Muslim and caused the election of Trump too.  And now apparently Biden is the worst in history.  If Bernie Sanders had won, he would have been the worst candidate in history (although this would be for he center-left policies and abrasive nature rather than his tendency to be overly touchy / make gaffes while speaking) .  I suspect that regardless of who is selected for the next election the Democrats will again have 'the worst candidate in history'.

This is because 'Worst candidate in history' appears to be code for 'democratic front runner'.

I said "in recent history".  Hillary was pretty bad.  Obama wasn't, he won twice and everything! 

At least Bernie is coherent, has a base and a solid platform.  He would probably have a good chance of winning this year.

As 538 put it in a current article, sometimes enthusiasm for a candidate is based on negative partisanship. This is why Roy Moore lost -- 28% of Alabamans didn't switch to the Democratic party in one year.

Why are people shocked that Democrats and NeverTrumpers can do the same?


Do you mean to say--this is why Roy Moore won?  A good point, I shouldn't be surprised.  Ultimately I am not envious of the US people.  I honestly wouldn't know who to vote for, perhaps a third party.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: sherr on May 24, 2020, 01:09:12 PM
As 538 put it in a current article, sometimes enthusiasm for a candidate is based on negative partisanship. This is why Roy Moore lost -- 28% of Alabamans didn't switch to the Democratic party in one year.

Why are people shocked that Democrats and NeverTrumpers can do the same?


Do you mean to say--this is why Roy Moore won?  A good point, I shouldn't be surprised.  Ultimately I am not envious of the US people.  I honestly wouldn't know who to vote for, perhaps a third party.

No, Roy Moore actually lost his election. Barely, but then a Republican losing in Alabama is practically a miracle. But the point is that Doug Jones didn't win because people loved him, he won because they hated Moore.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on May 24, 2020, 01:53:24 PM
As 538 put it in a current article, sometimes enthusiasm for a candidate is based on negative partisanship. This is why Roy Moore lost -- 28% of Alabamans didn't switch to the Democratic party in one year.

Why are people shocked that Democrats and NeverTrumpers can do the same?


Do you mean to say--this is why Roy Moore won?  A good point, I shouldn't be surprised.  Ultimately I am not envious of the US people.  I honestly wouldn't know who to vote for, perhaps a third party.

No, Roy Moore actually lost his election. Barely, but then a Republican losing in Alabama is practically a miracle. But the point is that Doug Jones didn't win because people loved him, he won because they hated Moore.
I understand now, thanks.  I wasn't really familiar with this guy.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: rosarugosa on May 25, 2020, 04:24:22 AM
For the record, I don't think it's that I'm partisan; I think it's a matter of Trump being a loathsome human being and a terrible leader.  I don't have a party affiliation (in MA, you can vote on either primary ballot if you are unenrolled).  I'm a big fan of our republican governor, Charlie Baker.  If it were a contest between Romney and Biden, I would likely vote Romney.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on May 25, 2020, 06:35:25 AM
For the record, I don't think it's that I'm partisan; I think it's a matter of Trump being a loathsome human being and a terrible leader.  I don't have a party affiliation (in MA, you can vote on either primary ballot if you are unenrolled).  I'm a big fan of our republican governor, Charlie Baker.  If it were a contest between Romney and Biden, I would likely vote Romney.

In general, I find it fairly ridiculous when people accuse those who strongly dislike Trump as being unthinking partisans. As you say, he is a loathsome human being and a horrible leader.

And there are many, many Republicans — including former office-holders — who have spoken out against him.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: the_gastropod on May 25, 2020, 07:46:55 AM
Remember in 2016 the conspiracy that Hillary was super-sick, could barely sit up on her own, and needed pillows to prop her up? Remember how widespread the concern for this was? Now Biden, another politician with decades of experience suddenly is mentally unwell, and it’s deeply concerning? I have no clue if it is or not, but it seems suspiciously like good ol’ Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on May 25, 2020, 07:52:19 AM
Remember in 2016 the conspiracy that Hillary was super-sick, could barely sit up on her own, and needed pillows to prop her up? Remember how widespread the concern for this was? Now Biden, another politician with decades of experience suddenly is mentally unwell, and it’s deeply concerning? I have no clue if it is or not, but it seems suspiciously like good ol’ Russian propaganda.

Yep. Unsurprising, given that this seems to be the main way to try and deflect from the fact that Trump is physically unfit and mentally unwell.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Just Joe on June 02, 2020, 01:29:34 PM
Just take everything the GOP or Trump says and know they are deflecting voter attention away from them on a similar topic. A fair bit of what they say and the labels they use are backwards.

They talk about freedom? That's freedom for them, another demographic will lose freedom. Fair? Fair for them, someone else won't receive fairness. Its old dog whistle politics at play.

Surprised the tactic still works in 2020.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on June 02, 2020, 01:58:10 PM
Hmm... well, the outrage of the day yesterday is how Trump took a giant step toward fascism by threatening to turn the military of this country against the citizens of this country.

I do not know how anyone who respects the laws of the US or its military could support this man any longer.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: bacchi on June 02, 2020, 02:30:14 PM
Hmm... well, the outrage of the day yesterday is how Trump took a giant step toward fascism by threatening to turn the military of this country against the citizens of this country.

I do not know how anyone who respects the laws of the US or its military could support this man any longer.

The Pentagon, in a circumspect way, responded, "Our CIC is fuckin' crazy."

Any governor who accepts "insurrection" military aid will go down in history and not in a good way.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on June 02, 2020, 02:32:13 PM
Hmm... well, the outrage of the day yesterday is how Trump took a giant step toward fascism by threatening to turn the military of this country against the citizens of this country.

I do not know how anyone who respects the laws of the US or its military could support this man any longer.

The Pentagon, in a circumspect way, responded, "Our CIC is fuckin' crazy."

Any governor who accepts "insurrection" military aid will go down in history and not in a good way.

Truth.

By the way, as might be inferred from the wording of my post, I meant to put this in the "Trump outrage of the day" thread. lol
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: nereo on June 02, 2020, 02:40:35 PM
What I find interesting is how every candidate that the Democrats run is now the worst candidate in history.  I mean we all heard that Trump won because Hilary was the worst candidate in history.  Obama was a secret death panel loving Muslim and caused the election of Trump too.  And now apparently Biden is the worst in history.  If Bernie Sanders had won, he would have been the worst candidate in history (although this would be for he center-left policies and abrasive nature rather than his tendency to be overly touchy / make gaffes while speaking) .  I suspect that regardless of who is selected for the next election the Democrats will again have 'the worst candidate in history'.

This is because 'Worst candidate in history' appears to be code for 'democratic front runner'.

This is by design.  Repeat a phrase often enough, and regardless of its accuracy people will start to believe it. Hillary Clinton was a two-term US Senator and Secretary of State. Regardless of what you think of her policies and approach, she had considerable experience in both the legislative and executive branches of government.   yet rather than critique any of her policies her critics simply labeled her a weak and inexperienced candidate. John Kerry was a bona-fide war hero. SoS and five-time senator, yet he was forced to defend his well established military record because of the vague "swift-boat veterans for truth" campaign.  Obama spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with his birth certificate (led by Trump) even though there was never any real question about his upbringing.  Al Gore served in both the Senate and House for 16 years before being a two-term VP, yet he was successfully cast as the 'inexperienced' candidate to the two-term Gov of Texas (W. Bush).

...and now there's Biden, a man who's spent more than four decades in Congress and eight years in executive branch.  Yet the common critiques have nothing to do with his long legislative history, but boil down to these two things: 1) he's mentally unfit (see: this thread) and 2) he's a "uniquely weak candidate".  Ironically among Democrats the biggest complaint is that he's the "establishment pick" - which is basically the exact opposite of a weak/inexperienced pol.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on June 02, 2020, 03:03:59 PM
What I find interesting is how every candidate that the Democrats run is now the worst candidate in history.  I mean we all heard that Trump won because Hilary was the worst candidate in history.  Obama was a secret death panel loving Muslim and caused the election of Trump too.  And now apparently Biden is the worst in history.  If Bernie Sanders had won, he would have been the worst candidate in history (although this would be for he center-left policies and abrasive nature rather than his tendency to be overly touchy / make gaffes while speaking) .  I suspect that regardless of who is selected for the next election the Democrats will again have 'the worst candidate in history'.

This is because 'Worst candidate in history' appears to be code for 'democratic front runner'.

This is by design.  Repeat a phrase often enough, and regardless of its accuracy people will start to believe it. Hillary Clinton was a two-term US Senator and Secretary of State. Regardless of what you think of her policies and approach, she had considerable experience in both the legislative and executive branches of government.   yet rather than critique any of her policies her critics simply labeled her a weak and inexperienced candidate. John Kerry was a bona-fide war hero. SoS and five-time senator, yet he was forced to defend his well established military record because of the vague "swift-boat veterans for truth" campaign.  Obama spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with his birth certificate (led by Trump) even though there was never any real question about his upbringing.  Al Gore served in both the Senate and House for 16 years before being a two-term VP, yet he was successfully cast as the 'inexperienced' candidate to the two-term Gov of Texas (W. Bush).

...and now there's Biden, a man who's spent more than four decades in Congress and eight years in executive branch.  Yet the common critiques have nothing to do with his long legislative history, but boil down to these two things: 1) he's mentally unfit (see: this thread) and 2) he's a "uniquely weak candidate".  Ironically among Democrats the biggest complaint is that he's the "establishment pick" - which is basically the exact opposite of a weak/inexperienced pol.

Yep. And it’s basically chapters 1-10 of the Trump Campaign Playbook: take the things that Trump is, and project them onto his opponent.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on June 02, 2020, 03:58:18 PM
What I find interesting is how every candidate that the Democrats run is now the worst candidate in history.  I mean we all heard that Trump won because Hilary was the worst candidate in history.  Obama was a secret death panel loving Muslim and caused the election of Trump too.  And now apparently Biden is the worst in history.  If Bernie Sanders had won, he would have been the worst candidate in history (although this would be for he center-left policies and abrasive nature rather than his tendency to be overly touchy / make gaffes while speaking) .  I suspect that regardless of who is selected for the next election the Democrats will again have 'the worst candidate in history'.

This is because 'Worst candidate in history' appears to be code for 'democratic front runner'.

This is by design.  Repeat a phrase often enough, and regardless of its accuracy people will start to believe it.

How apt!

Here's what I originally said, just a few posts up the page:

Quote
Trump is so bad he caused the Dems to run the worst candidate in recent history?
Notice how the word "recent" was conveniently removed by subsequent posters and used to construct a strawman?  It is very misleading when people do this, I agree.

Here's another one, same strategy:

In general, I find it fairly ridiculous when people accuse those who strongly dislike Trump as being unthinking partisans.

The word "unthinking" was added out of careless expedience.  Here's what I actually said:

I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.

Not that I blame you, but this blind partisanship is a very bad sign.  Why even talk to the other side?

-------------------

Adding and removing words to change the meaning of phrases is a pretty juvenile way to make arguments, especially when it is followed by an accusation of this practice.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: bacchi on June 02, 2020, 04:17:19 PM
Here's another one, same strategy:

In general, I find it fairly ridiculous when people accuse those who strongly dislike Trump as being unthinking partisans.

The word "unthinking" was added out of careless expedience.  Here's what I actually said:

I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.

Not that I blame you, but this blind partisanship is a very bad sign.  Why even talk to the other side?

-------------------

Adding and removing words to change the meaning of phrases is a pretty juvenile way to make arguments, especially when it is followed by an accusation of this practice.
(bolded)

Let me understand better. You think "blind" and "unthinking" are not synonyms in this context?

If they're not, what definition of "blind" are you using? Surely you didn't mean an actual can't-physically-see-through-one's-eyes person?
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: nereo on June 02, 2020, 05:09:45 PM
@Wrenchturner - I wasn’t responding to any of your posts, but to GuitarStv, which is why I quoted him as such.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Wrenchturner on June 02, 2020, 05:34:49 PM
Here's another one, same strategy:

In general, I find it fairly ridiculous when people accuse those who strongly dislike Trump as being unthinking partisans.

The word "unthinking" was added out of careless expedience.  Here's what I actually said:

I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.

Not that I blame you, but this blind partisanship is a very bad sign.  Why even talk to the other side?

-------------------

Adding and removing words to change the meaning of phrases is a pretty juvenile way to make arguments, especially when it is followed by an accusation of this practice.
(bolded)

Let me understand better. You think "blind" and "unthinking" are not synonyms in this context?

If they're not, what definition of "blind" are you using? Surely you didn't mean an actual can't-physically-see-through-one's-eyes person?

If someone wants to quote me, they can quote me, instead of playing word games with words-that-might-be-synonyms.  Especially in the context of what's being discussed here--the accuracy of phrases being used by the "opposing side".  No, I don't think it's the same, because I don't think rosarugosa is unthinking.  If presidential candidates are so inadequate that statements like "I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him" are required, then there are greater systemic problems at hand, and as I stated ("Not that I blame you") I don't consider this a reflection on rosarugosa, unlike the implication here:

"people accuse those who strongly dislike Trump as being unthinking partisans."

If I wanted to rebuke rosa, I would have done so here:

For the record, I don't think it's that I'm partisan; I think it's a matter of Trump being a loathsome human being and a terrible leader. 

The blindness is a general electorate blindness, not one attributed to this person.


@Wrenchturner - I wasn’t responding to any of your posts, but to GuitarStv, which is why I quoted him as such.

The context of his reply is significant insofar as it is inaccurate in exactly the way you describe--misleading.  To your point, regarding appropriate criticisms--I would say Biden's mental capacity is fair game.  This thread was created in good faith.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on June 02, 2020, 05:39:29 PM
Here's another one, same strategy:

In general, I find it fairly ridiculous when people accuse those who strongly dislike Trump as being unthinking partisans.

The word "unthinking" was added out of careless expedience.  Here's what I actually said:

I just realized something.  You know how it is often said that there is nothing Trump could do that would alienate his base?  The same accusation could be leveled at me about Biden; I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him.  I guess if he started torturing baby animals I would go with a write-in protest vote, but I still could never vote for Trump.

Not that I blame you, but this blind partisanship is a very bad sign.  Why even talk to the other side?

-------------------

Adding and removing words to change the meaning of phrases is a pretty juvenile way to make arguments, especially when it is followed by an accusation of this practice.
(bolded)

Let me understand better. You think "blind" and "unthinking" are not synonyms in this context?

If they're not, what definition of "blind" are you using? Surely you didn't mean an actual can't-physically-see-through-one's-eyes person?

If someone wants to quote me, they can quote me, instead of playing word games with words-that-might-be-synonyms.  Especially in the context of what's being discussed here--the accuracy of phrases being used by the "opposing side".  No, I don't think it's the same, because I don't think rosarugosa is unthinking.  If presidential candidates are so inadequate that statements like "I almost cannot imagine what he could do to lose my vote, and I don't even particularly like him" are required, then there are greater systemic problems at hand, and as I stated ("Not that I blame you") I don't consider this a reflection on rosarugosa, unlike the implication here:

"people accuse those who strongly dislike Trump as being unthinking partisans."

If I wanted to rebuke rosa, I would have done so here:

For the record, I don't think it's that I'm partisan; I think it's a matter of Trump being a loathsome human being and a terrible leader. 

The blindness is a general electorate blindness, not one attributed to this person.


@Wrenchturner - I wasn’t responding to any of your posts, but to GuitarStv, which is why I quoted him as such.

The context of his reply is significant insofar as it is inaccurate in exactly the way you describe--misleading.  To your point, regarding appropriate criticisms--I would say Biden's mental capacity is fair game.  This thread was created in good faith.


My discussion of it being ridiculous when people accuse those who dislike Trump as being blindly partisan was general ridiculousness, not one attributed to this person.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Cassie on June 04, 2020, 10:21:04 AM
I rarely vote a straight ticket but vote for the person. I would vote for a pet rock before I will vote for trump:))
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: PDXTabs on June 04, 2020, 10:24:30 AM
I would vote for a pet rock before I will vote for trump:))

Right? Pet Rock can't tweet. Pet Rock won't destroy democratic norms. Pet Rock won't alienate huge sections of the population.

Pet Rock 2020!

Other potential candidates include Pet Pygmy Goat who would do a bang-up job on the yearly turkey pardon.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Cassie on June 04, 2020, 10:35:07 AM
Trump acts like he is on uppers, has frontal lobe dementia and is a sociopath. That’s the nicest thing I can say about him.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: jim555 on June 04, 2020, 11:53:17 AM
If Biden was in a Captain Pike wheelchair and could only communicate with flashes of light he still would be light years ahead of Cheeto Mussolini.
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: DoubleDown on June 04, 2020, 11:59:17 AM
I feel like any question of "Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?" gives undeserved credibility to yet another Trump-invented conspiracy, the same as "Should we be concerned about Obamagate?" or "Should Joe Scarborough be investigated for murder?" Trump came up with this ridiculous notion to deflect attention from himself and fire up like-minded conspiracy believers, just as he does with every other attack against his perceived "enemies."
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: GuitarStv on June 04, 2020, 12:00:17 PM
I feel like any question of "Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?" gives undeserved credibility to yet another Trump-invented conspiracy, the same as "Should we be concerned about Obamagate?" or "Should Joe Scarborough be investigated for murder?" Trump came up with this ridiculous notion to deflect attention from himself and fire up like-minded conspiracy believers, just as he does with every other attack against his perceived "enemies."

I still haven't seen Obama's long form birth certificate.  Just sayin'.

:P
Title: Re: Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?
Post by: Kris on June 04, 2020, 12:18:38 PM
I feel like any question of "Is Joe Biden in good mental shape?" gives undeserved credibility to yet another Trump-invented conspiracy, the same as "Should we be concerned about Obamagate?" or "Should Joe Scarborough be investigated for murder?" Trump came up with this ridiculous notion to deflect attention from himself and fire up like-minded conspiracy believers, just as he does with every other attack against his perceived "enemies."

Yep. 100%.

People feed into his bullshit almost without being able to help themselves.