Author Topic: invest in your marriage  (Read 15515 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2018, 01:40:11 PM »
One thing I'm curious about in terms of marriages or relationships ending.. are there many here who have differing religious views with their partner? Can that be a threat to the relationship? I would like to think this is something that is discussed openly way ahead of time so I'm not sure this would have much of an impact on a marriage.
I'm socially cordial with the religious beliefs of others, but there's personally no way I could be in a serious long-term romantic relationship with someone that was ardently religious (atheist sleeping with an atheist here).  It just implies a massive mismatch in priorities to my own.

I'm sure that mindset varies person to person.  It should definitely be frankly discussed way the fuck ahead of marriage.

I think it depends on the people involved more than the religion.  It's possible to be respectful of beliefs without holding them yourself.  My wife was a practicing Catholic fifteen years ago, and she's pretty much atheist at this point.  I've bounced between pantheism and atheism over the same period.  We've never had problems from religious differences, although we've also never really met quite eye to eye on things.

rdaneel0

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2018, 02:18:47 PM »
5. No nagging. Ever!

I'm curious about this one. Does nagging just involve using a certain nag-y tone of voice? Surely it doesn't extend to, like, requesting a household chore be done? I think a lot of negotiating who's doing what happens out loud in my partnership, but never in a frustrated tone of voice, and usually neither of us has to ask more than once. I consider it part of healthy communication. To be fair, though, we've only lived together a few months.

Oh I think request are totally fine. I think of nagging as hounding someone, repeatedly, to do or not do the same thing over and over again. Like if I ask my husband to pick something up, I ask once and just trust that he'll do it at some point. I'd consider it nagging if I was like "hey did you get X yet?" "so when are you getting X?" "I thought you said you'd get X for me" "where is X? "Why haven't you gone to get X yet?" etc.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense. I happen to take kind of a radical point of view that nagging is generally the fault of the person who has failed to do X without repeated requests. ;)

So, there's little nagging in my partnership because we both try to make sure it never becomes necessary for the other person to ask more than once. This doesn't necessarily mean jumping to the other person's every whim - it can also just include an acknowledgement of the request and a promise that it's in the pipeline. But I have unusually strong feelings about this because of the gendered history of nagging as a concept. I recognize my approach doesn't work for everyone. Or maybe it's the naivete of the still-dating!

It could be a personality thing too! Like, my husband is naturally far tidier and cleaner than I am, so if one of us were nagging the other it would be more likely to be him nagging me, haha, my mountain of shoes near the front door is the bane of his existence. I know if he nagged me about it, though, that would probably make me even less likely to try to be neat. I think since he's told me how he likes things and he knows I'm really trying I've actually gotten wayyyyy neater, but if nagging had become a thing we could have spent countless hours arguing over dumb house stuff (with him getting resentful and me feeling like I'm being treated like a child). But yes, it probably is usually the reverse gender-wise. There are so many reports of women doing like, all of the household stuff while working full time, and guys next to nothing. We may absolutely be the exception to the rule in this case, and it may be that some people don't mind repeated requests the way we both would! 

OurTown

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2018, 02:59:32 PM »
Nagging is poison.  So is fighting.  Just my opinion. 

Tass

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2018, 03:30:44 PM »
Nagging is poison.

I think we all agree on that. I just personally think the solution is a little more than a simple "don't nag!" It also involves being a partner who doesn't require nagging.

Edited for grammar thing that was bugging me.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 09:36:44 PM by Tass »

use2betrix

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2018, 08:47:13 PM »
One thing I'm curious about in terms of marriages or relationships ending.. are there many here who have differing religious views with their partner? Can that be a threat to the relationship? I would like to think this is something that is discussed openly way ahead of time so I'm not sure this would have much of an impact on a marriage.

My wife was very religious when we met. Still a Christian but not as “active.” I’ve basically always been agnostic/atheist.

We are both respectful of each other and I’m not one of those idiotic atheists who sits around trying to tell Christians God is fake. It’s those people which make it hard to even call myself atheist due to the stigma.

We *gasp* are just respectful of each other’s beliefs and it’s never caused the slightest ruffle in our marriage.

bwall

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2018, 07:09:06 AM »
Also, I balk at "don't go to bed angry".  In many cases, I don't do well if put on the spot to discuss something.  I need time to feel my feelings and process them.  And frankly when given that, most of the time I can work through them to the point that I'm no longer frustrated or angry or disappointed, or if I am, it's much more under control so I can have a productive conversation about them.  If I were forced to talk about X because it was 10 pm and we were going to bed soon, that wouldn't be good for either of us.  Let's talk about it tomorrow after work when we have plenty of time and I've been able to process.  So I think "don't go to bed angry" can actually hurt some relationships. More important is "don't not talk about what made you angry within a reasonable time frame".   
+1

Sometimes I've been so upset, that for me not to go to bed angry would mean I'd stay up all night.

I heard this advice a lot when I was younger and I think it's really gives the wrong impression of how life and relationships are.

In your case maybe it could be, not going to bed angry at each other without at least agreeing that you will discuss it the next day which is what sounds ike you are doing. 

What doesn't work is holding in all the anger for months until something small happens and all that previous cooped up anger explodes all over the place.  You are arguing about picking up socks when in reality one is pissed off about so many other unresolved issues and nothing really good comes of that argument.

Agreed. But, that is too much nuance for some people.

For example, I was pretty upset and couldn't talk about the issue until I calmed down, which would be the next day (or two). My girlfriend at the time didn't want 'to go to sleep angry', which meant that she wasn't too interested in waiting, or compromising on the issue at hand. Which all made it even more frustrating for me. Needless to say, our relationship didn't last.

iris lily

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2018, 07:22:01 AM »
One thing I'm curious about in terms of marriages or relationships ending.. are there many here who have differing religious views with their partner? Can that be a threat to the relationship? I would like to think this is something that is discussed openly way ahead of time so I'm not sure this would have much of an impact on a marriage.
I am a non-believer, and he is a wishy washy Catholic. It is not a problem as we have been married 30 years.  But then, we do not have children. We dont have to worry about the religious education of our dogs. They are theists and think we are gods.

OurTown

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2018, 10:00:50 AM »
There is nagging over small things and nagging over important things.  If you are nagging about something important, let's say your partner has a substance abuse issue or drinks to excess, then it's the issue that is the problem not the nagging.  But when your partner has a major issue that is harmful to the marriage, it is your partner's issue to solve, and the nagging won't actually help.  In fact, the nagging is a negative because it gives your partner something to whine about rather than addressing his/her own major issue.

If you are nagging over small things, really wtf?  Maybe you think it's not fair that your spouse doesn't do his/her share of the chores, or doesn't load the dishwasher right, or whatever, but is it worth it to prove a point when you are chipping away at relationship satisfaction every day with the nagging?  I don't think so. 

Tass

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2018, 10:44:55 AM »
There is nagging over small things and nagging over important things.  If you are nagging about something important, let's say your partner has a substance abuse issue or drinks to excess, then it's the issue that is the problem not the nagging.  But when your partner has a major issue that is harmful to the marriage, it is your partner's issue to solve, and the nagging won't actually help.  In fact, the nagging is a negative because it gives your partner something to whine about rather than addressing his/her own major issue.

If you are nagging over small things, really wtf?  Maybe you think it's not fair that your spouse doesn't do his/her share of the chores, or doesn't load the dishwasher right, or whatever, but is it worth it to prove a point when you are chipping away at relationship satisfaction every day with the nagging?  I don't think so.

Hopefully if your partner has a substance abuse problem your intervention/support goes beyond nagging.

I don't think a partner not doing their share of chores is a small thing. But I agree nagging isn't a good way to solve it. I believe in communicating openly and often even about the small things, so sometimes it includes a "Hey I cleared the table, would you mind wiping down the stove?" I consider this a fair request, but some might consider it nagging, idk.

My point is more that a "never ever nag!" rule makes some people feel like they can't even make those requests, because it strays too close. Early in my relationship I felt like I wasn't allowed to ask for those kinds of contributions for fear of being a nag. But we've matured, and before we moved in together we had a conversation agreeing that we were going to do our best to split chores evenly, and that we both understood this agreement might need to be revisited, revised, or reemphasized. We don't keep score, but it does involve regular "how about I do x and you do y" type check-ins.

I just don't believe in not discussing the distribution of the chores. I don't think discussing is the same thing as nagging, but the difference might just be that the conversation is two-sided.

Sorry if I'm sidetracking this conversation.

rdaneel0

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2018, 11:00:36 AM »
Nagging is poison.

I think we all agree on that. I just personally think the solution is a little more than a simple "don't nag!" It also involves being a partner who doesn't require nagging.

Edited for grammar thing that was bugging me.

@Tass  What you said here is part of why I think some of the other habits I mentioned are so important. I do personally think not nagging is important for both parties, because it can be easy to nag just because you/your partner want something done a certain way or on a certain timeline, when it doesn't actually matter that much. But aside from not nagging, I think it's even more important to be really really choosy. I think if you pick someone who is reasonable and hard working and who doesn't take you for granted and who really and truly tries to do what makes you happy and what's right...then I feel like there's really no place for nagging. On the other hand, if stuff you (not literal you, but general you) request is consistently ignored or if your partner consistently says they will do things they don't do...then I would say your partner was maybe not the best choice.

I think being the kind of partner you would want to be with is vital and that not nagging or being overly critical is part of that, but I don't think any amount of good relationship habits can compensate for choosing someone you're not compatible with or who is inconsiderate, lazy, sexist, etc.

ETA: And I agree that discussions are not the same as nagging.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 11:02:07 AM by rdaneel0 »

rdaneel0

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2018, 11:08:09 AM »
@rdaneel0 your list is gold.

:) Thanks, haha, I guess only time will tell if I'm right! lol.

Laserjet3051

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2018, 11:45:30 AM »
One thing I'm curious about in terms of marriages or relationships ending.. are there many here who have differing religious views with their partner? Can that be a threat to the relationship? I would like to think this is something that is discussed openly way ahead of time so I'm not sure this would have much of an impact on a marriage.

I think this is a bigger issue if you have kids than if you don't, since it gets into "how do we raise them/do we baptize" type questions. Without kids, it can be a live and let live arrangement.

Not that I can talk, I'm an atheist who married an atheist.

I can talk about this. i am an atheist who married a devout evangelical baptist almost 20 years ago and we have two children together. There are no generalizations one can make regarding the impact differing regious views has on marriage. That said, I can tell you my specific situation. Despite, the radically polarized religious views of myself and wife, religion has generally not been a problem for us, even regarding children. We are both respectful of each others views and because she feels much more strongly about her religion than I do about non-religion, I've let her raise the children according to her doctrines (e.g. baptism, sunday church, etc.). That said, the children are not ignorant to my views and over the years they have incrementally appreciated and understood what atheism is. Far more of a problem for us than religion, is the subject of money.

I would liek to add that I think this is a great thread and reflects one of the more under-developed concepts/principles in mustachianism, the concept of investing in marriage. Not only to derive happiness, but even from a cold calculating fiscal perspective. MMM got the "invest in your health and it will off in spades" concept down, but to the best of my knowledge, he never really addressed the invest in your marriage concept on the blog. There is a wealth of information and advice and utility that can be drawn from such exploration.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 11:48:04 AM by Laserjet3051 »

Laserjet3051

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2018, 11:57:37 AM »
One thing I'm curious about in terms of marriages or relationships ending.. are there many here who have differing religious views with their partner? Can that be a threat to the relationship? I would like to think this is something that is discussed openly way ahead of time so I'm not sure this would have much of an impact on a marriage.

I think this is a bigger issue if you have kids than if you don't, since it gets into "how do we raise them/do we baptize" type questions. Without kids, it can be a live and let live arrangement.

Not that I can talk, I'm an atheist who married an atheist.

I can talk about this. i am an atheist who married a devout evangelical baptist almost 20 years ago and we have two children together. There are no generalizations one can make regarding the impact differing regious views has on marriage. That said, I can tell you my specific situation. Despite, the radically polarized religious views of myself and wife, religion has generally not been a problem for us, even regarding children. We are both respectful of each others views and because she feels much more strongly about her religion than I do about non-religion, I've let her raise the children according to her doctrines (e.g. baptism, sunday church, etc.). That said, the children are not ignorant to my views and over the years they have incrementally appreciated and understood what atheism is. Far more of a problem for us than religion, is the subject of money.

I would like to add that I think this is a great thread and reflects one of the more under-developed concepts/principles in mustachianism, the concept of investing in marriage. Not only to derive happiness, but even from a cold calculating fiscal perspective. MMM got the "invest in your health and it will pay off in spades" concept down, but to the best of my knowledge, he never really addressed the invest in your marriage concept on the blog. There is a wealth of information and advice and utility that can be drawn from such exploration.

An additional point is that unlike most atheists I know who regularly denigrate and belittle religion and religious people, I do not engage in such behavior/attacks. While I do believe that the concept of believing in a "sky daddy" is silly, under no circumstance would I communicate that out of respect to someone who believes it. There is also some unknown probability (though admittedly small) that they may be right and I may be wrong. No room for hubris in a marriage.

OurTown

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2018, 12:50:25 PM »
@Laserjet3051 What are your thoughts on money as an issue in marriage?  In our case, early on we set up a system where we each have "operating accounts" (both are held jointly fwiw) and we each are accountable for a pro rata share of the total expenses.  Then the money left over is our own to dispose of as we each see fit.  More recently, we have migrated to a weekly cash "allowance" for discretionary spending.

Laserjet3051

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2018, 02:52:42 PM »
@Laserjet3051 What are your thoughts on money as an issue in marriage?  In our case, early on we set up a system where we each have "operating accounts" (both are held jointly fwiw) and we each are accountable for a pro rata share of the total expenses.  Then the money left over is our own to dispose of as we each see fit.  More recently, we have migrated to a weekly cash "allowance" for discretionary spending.

Money in a marriage is a very complex issue that is often specific to the context at hand. However, I do have some core principles on the matter such as: 1) money problems are more likely to arise and be a sticking point when two partners make a hugely disparate amount of money (or one is a non-income generating partner), 2) partners should have both joint accounts (control) of funds as well as their own independent accounts, 3) big purchases should be discussed/agreed on before hand, small to medium expenses require no "pre-approval," 4) all significant matters of a fiscal nature should be disclosed prior to entering the marriage (or equivalent) as well as those that emerge during the relationship, 4) monetary habits and goals should be compatible between partners.

And the most important: regular (& honest) discussion of monetary matters to ensure things are on track and if not, the opportunity to nudge them back in the right direction. But $ is the stickiest issue in my marriage, so I can only speak from having made mammoth mistakes on this front.

Good luck.

GuitarStv

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2018, 03:39:24 PM »
@Laserjet3051 What are your thoughts on money as an issue in marriage?  In our case, early on we set up a system where we each have "operating accounts" (both are held jointly fwiw) and we each are accountable for a pro rata share of the total expenses.  Then the money left over is our own to dispose of as we each see fit.  More recently, we have migrated to a weekly cash "allowance" for discretionary spending.

Money in a marriage is a very complex issue that is often specific to the context at hand. However, I do have some core principles on the matter such as: 1) money problems are more likely to arise and be a sticking point when two partners make a hugely disparate amount of money (or one is a non-income generating partner), 2) partners should have both joint accounts (control) of funds as well as their own independent accounts, 3) big purchases should be discussed/agreed on before hand, small to medium expenses require no "pre-approval," 4) all significant matters of a fiscal nature should be disclosed prior to entering the marriage (or equivalent) as well as those that emerge during the relationship, 4) monetary habits and goals should be compatible between partners.

And the most important: regular (& honest) discussion of monetary matters to ensure things are on track and if not, the opportunity to nudge them back in the right direction. But $ is the stickiest issue in my marriage, so I can only speak from having made mammoth mistakes on this front.

Good luck.

I agree completely with 1, 3, and 4.

I don't entirely understand why keeping separate accounts is important though.  There are many scenarios where having accounts that are secret from your partner is more likely to cause hardship and distress than not.

scottydog

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2018, 04:58:12 PM »
When I'm really upset, I'll often write a note/journal entry then read it to Greyman later. I don't talk well when I'm upset, but when I'm upset is when I have all my reasons for being upset in mind. It works better for me to write something out when I'm feeling the feelings, then readdress it when I'm calmer, figure out what the actual problems are that need solving and bring them up at a time when I normally wouldn't bring them up, because then I'm not presently upset!

This is great. Thanks! I've found myself iterating towards something like this using email, but I prefer your approach of reading it to your SO later. I don't talk well when I'm upset either, and I already write in a journal to help myself sort things out.

oldladystache

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2018, 05:10:58 PM »
Nagging is poison.
When I was married it was my job to take care of the financial details. Including filing the taxes.  Every year, around the end of January he'd start reminding me. Maybe once a week. Finally, in March, I'd get started working on them. We had really complicated stuff that took me 2 weeks of a few hours a day.

Eventually I told him how annoying all the nagging was and I found out he thought it was his nagging that finally made me work on them. If he hadn't nagged it wouldn't ever get done. I explained in no uncertain terms that I did the taxes on the schedule I had originally planned and his nagging didn't help. I guess he believed me because he stopped doing it.

That's not why I left, but it was one more straw on the camel's back.

sui generis

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2018, 09:24:27 AM »
In addition to really appreciating the work of Gottman and the 5 Love Languages, my fiance recently tore this article out of the paper and we are working through it together: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/23/fashion/weddings/marriage-questions.html.

Having been together for almost 6 years now, it's not just for the newbie relationships.  We have often had wide-ranging talks on our philosophies of relationships and this article still got us to talk more in-depth than we have before.  We spent hours talking through just the first 4 on a recent backpacking trip and decided we'd do the next set on our next camping trip - winter camping is great for this because you have such long cold, dark hours where it's hard to do much else than talk while huddled in your sleeping bag(s).  We're also adding another question about how we'd handle the other one becoming paralyzed, after listening to a recent Death, Sex & Money podcast episode where that happened to some newlyweds.

I think there are two points to this article - each topic is important in itself, but the act of discussing them engenders stronger communication and self-disclosure (i.e. more closeness) which is critical to a strong relationship.

Also, +1000 to love being a verb not a noun, from upthread.

Zikoris

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2018, 09:45:28 AM »
In addition to really appreciating the work of Gottman and the 5 Love Languages, my fiance recently tore this article out of the paper and we are working through it together: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/23/fashion/weddings/marriage-questions.html.

Having been together for almost 6 years now, it's not just for the newbie relationships.  We have often had wide-ranging talks on our philosophies of relationships and this article still got us to talk more in-depth than we have before.  We spent hours talking through just the first 4 on a recent backpacking trip and decided we'd do the next set on our next camping trip - winter camping is great for this because you have such long cold, dark hours where it's hard to do much else than talk while huddled in your sleeping bag(s).  We're also adding another question about how we'd handle the other one becoming paralyzed, after listening to a recent Death, Sex & Money podcast episode where that happened to some newlyweds.

I think there are two points to this article - each topic is important in itself, but the act of discussing them engenders stronger communication and self-disclosure (i.e. more closeness) which is critical to a strong relationship.

Also, +1000 to love being a verb not a noun, from upthread.

Those are actually really good questions - so many of those lists are just ridiculous stuff that normal people would have covered within the first few dates, unless they were actively avoiding getting to know each other. This one is actually extremely practical and deep.

bwall

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2018, 10:51:11 AM »
I read this today and found it very apropos; interview with a divorce lawyer who wrote a book on why divorces happen.

https://www.vox.com/2018/12/3/18075794/marriage-divorce-happiness-relationships-james-sexton


TVRodriguez

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2018, 11:50:00 AM »

Also, I balk at "don't go to bed angry".  . . .  So I think "don't go to bed angry" can actually hurt some relationships.  More important is "don't not talk about what made you angry within a reasonable time frame". 
 

Totally agree with this one.  One of the things I had to learn was to tell my husband when things bothered me. 

I used to try too hard to "not sweat the small stuff" and "accept" and "let things go"--and for some things that worked, but for some, it just built up into resentment, with which I would later explode.  Not good.  Now I make more of an effort to say when something bothers me in real time--the same day, preferably the same hour.  And more of an effort to say what I want and to do what I want. 

He had his own things to work on, but these were mine.

Philociraptor

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2018, 11:55:36 AM »
For those of us who are currently married Mustachians, what steps do you take to invest in your marriage?  What do you do that is positive and proactive to increase marital satisfaction and happiness and/or to alleviate or mitigate discord?

We sat down a few years back and made a mission statement on paper, but I sure as heck can't find it. A few lines I remember (29 year old DINKs, together 12 years, married 4):

 - Bang weekly
 - Don't go to bed angry
 - Greet each other and say farewell each time we meet / part or wake up / go to sleep
 - Discuss all life-altering decisions first
 - Warn the other of incoming large purchases (anything over $100 or so)
 - Always be honest

Other than that, we eat dinner together every day. We both do our best to keep in shape physically and mentally. We generally spend the weekends together: Saturday meal prep, Sunday laundry at the least. Take yearly trips away from family. Regularly discuss our work and life goals.

Generally speaking, we're both pretty practical people. We understand that statistics and evidence are better in decision-making than feelings. Given that, we're always willing to listen to what the other person has to say and evaluate with an open mind.

Sibley

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2018, 12:13:29 PM »
#3 Don't go to bed angry with each. Following rule #1

You need to know your audience. That rule can backfire. And I mean MASSIVELY. I can, and do, get to a point where I have to disengage. I have to go to bed and sleep. I get irrational, I get overwhelmed, and I am completely incapable of discussing anything logically. If you, my partner, recognize and respect that and let me just go to sleep, 90% of the time the issue is simply gone the next day, and the rest of the time it is really not a big deal and is easily dealt with.

If you, my partner, are trying to follow that rule, then it is going to turn whatever disagreement we were having into a much more serious one: that of disregarding my actual need for sleep and cool off time.

Every relationship where the don't go to bed angry has been around, even with me explicitly telling the idiot not to do that, has ended badly. Because of that damn rule.

DS

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2018, 12:22:44 PM »
#3 Don't go to bed angry with each. Following rule #1

You need to know your audience. That rule can backfire. And I mean MASSIVELY. I can, and do, get to a point where I have to disengage. I have to go to bed and sleep. I get irrational, I get overwhelmed, and I am completely incapable of discussing anything logically. If you, my partner, recognize and respect that and let me just go to sleep, 90% of the time the issue is simply gone the next day, and the rest of the time it is really not a big deal and is easily dealt with.

If you, my partner, are trying to follow that rule, then it is going to turn whatever disagreement we were having into a much more serious one: that of disregarding my actual need for sleep and cool off time.

Every relationship where the don't go to bed angry has been around, even with me explicitly telling the idiot not to do that, has ended badly. Because of that damn rule.

Can confirm this is how some people need to process. Have driven someone away by trying to solve everything so immediately. Thought I was being attentive but should have really just let them go to sleep some nights.

rdaneel0

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2018, 01:03:17 PM »
@Philociraptor  I laughed at "bang weekly" but it's so true. I wasn't ballsy (pun intended) enough to include anything about sex in my list, but yeah, a super fun active sex life is pretty key.

ketchup

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2018, 01:27:19 PM »
@Philociraptor  I laughed at "bang weekly" but it's so true. I wasn't ballsy (pun intended) enough to include anything about sex in my list, but yeah, a super fun active sex life is pretty key.
Only weekly?

Philociraptor

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2018, 01:43:57 PM »
@Philociraptor  I laughed at "bang weekly" but it's so true. I wasn't ballsy (pun intended) enough to include anything about sex in my list, but yeah, a super fun active sex life is pretty key.
Only weekly?

Implied minimum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

elaine amj

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2018, 04:51:27 PM »

Also, I balk at "don't go to bed angry".  . . .  So I think "don't go to bed angry" can actually hurt some relationships.  More important is "don't not talk about what made you angry within a reasonable time frame". 
 

Totally agree with this one.  One of the things I had to learn was to tell my husband when things bothered me. 

I used to try too hard to "not sweat the small stuff" and "accept" and "let things go"--and for some things that worked, but for some, it just built up into resentment, with which I would later explode.  Not good.  Now I make more of an effort to say when something bothers me in real time--the same day, preferably the same hour.  And more of an effort to say what I want and to do what I want. 

He had his own things to work on, but these were mine.
That's been a big lesson for me to learn this year. Like you, I often let things go and genuinely thought many things sincerely didn't bother me. Well, turns out - they did. So now I am learning to quietly tell DH, "I don't like it when you do such and such". I generally stay very calm and loving when I do this and don't do it in anger, which I know he appreciates. I keep it as a matter of fact comment (not accusatory) and this defuses the possibility of it turning into an argument.

The other thing we are working on is to say positive affirming things about each other. We had both gotten into the habit of pointing out each other's faults. Lately, I started teasing DH about the stuff he does that bothers me. I started it as a way to cope, but have realized that it isn't healthy.

Every marriage breakdown I have had a close up view of has involved one person losing respect for the other. It's insidious and can start off so innocently.

Oh and for us, the power of touch and simply being kind to each other makes all the difference in the world.

Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk


partgypsy

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2018, 06:48:33 PM »
@Philociraptor  I laughed at "bang weekly" but it's so true. I wasn't ballsy (pun intended) enough to include anything about sex in my list, but yeah, a super fun active sex life is pretty key.

yes, but it's not enough, especially if you are not doing those other things (see date your wife).

dandypandys

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2018, 07:37:21 PM »
Frequent and savage fart battles.


haha I like the fart wars idea.
Related (accidentally), we try to do dance-of-the-day. Everyday :)
We can't dance,  we just try to out-silly each other's moves. Funtimes.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 07:39:57 PM by dandypandys »

TVRodriguez

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2018, 10:16:58 AM »

Also, I balk at "don't go to bed angry".  . . .  So I think "don't go to bed angry" can actually hurt some relationships.  More important is "don't not talk about what made you angry within a reasonable time frame". 
 

Totally agree with this one.  One of the things I had to learn was to tell my husband when things bothered me. 

I used to try too hard to "not sweat the small stuff" and "accept" and "let things go"--and for some things that worked, but for some, it just built up into resentment, with which I would later explode.  Not good.  Now I make more of an effort to say when something bothers me in real time--the same day, preferably the same hour.  And more of an effort to say what I want and to do what I want. 

He had his own things to work on, but these were mine.
That's been a big lesson for me to learn this year. Like you, I often let things go and genuinely thought many things sincerely didn't bother me. Well, turns out - they did. So now I am learning to quietly tell DH, "I don't like it when you do such and such". I generally stay very calm and loving when I do this and don't do it in anger, which I know he appreciates. I keep it as a matter of fact comment (not accusatory) and this defuses the possibility of it turning into an argument.

The other thing we are working on is to say positive affirming things about each other. We had both gotten into the habit of pointing out each other's faults. Lately, I started teasing DH about the stuff he does that bothers me. I started it as a way to cope, but have realized that it isn't healthy.

Every marriage breakdown I have had a close up view of has involved one person losing respect for the other. It's insidious and can start off so innocently.

Oh and for us, the power of touch and simply being kind to each other makes all the difference in the world.

Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk

Yup, you and I are on the same wavelength here!

rdaneel0

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2018, 10:25:30 AM »
@Philociraptor  I laughed at "bang weekly" but it's so true. I wasn't ballsy (pun intended) enough to include anything about sex in my list, but yeah, a super fun active sex life is pretty key.

yes, but it's not enough, especially if you are not doing those other things (see date your wife).

Oh yeah, I didn't get the sense that anyone was saying that a sex life alone is enough to sustain a marriage.

bocopro

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2018, 01:23:08 PM »
Been married a mere 3 years, so posting to follow folks much more wise than me - thank you all!
Keeping it going for the long haul is a commitment - lots of admiration from me.

Despite being new to the marriage game, one useful thing we do find ourselves saying is "be generous with our assumptions" about each other... (basically: a fancy way to say "don't immediately assume the worst").

It's a tiny thing, but helps re-frame in over-reactive little moments: much better to think "you didn't do the dishes because you're especially tired from conducting three interviews at work" than "you didn't do the dishes because you're: purposely spiting me / an actual monster / etc... " :)


talltexan

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2018, 01:38:41 PM »
posting to follow

rubybeth

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2018, 02:01:07 PM »
As a 27 year old who is not married, I'm not sure if I have a pessimistic view of what causes divorces a lot of the time or not, but I have to believe the visibility of anyone and everyone via social media, and just how accessible everything is, people sometimes talk themselves into thinking they could have something better or more perfect. And that turns into divorce. Am I wrong?

Social media has been an affliction to our society. Particularly things like instagram, Facebook, and twitter.  People only sharing the best of their lives and hiding the worst.  From the outside it appears that everyones visible life is just so much better than your own real life.  Its is so sad.

I agree that, for the most part, a lot of people share only "happy" things, but I've tried to be honest with my posts--I share the frustrations and sadnesses of life in addition to the fun stuff. I share the crappy and the good. I've also noticed my friends also share the hard things, too. Maybe it's just my circle of friends, but between deaths, car accidents, job loss, surgery, financial struggles, emergency hospitalizations, sobriety, struggles with depression/anxiety, etc. I feel like I see a lot of honesty on Facebook and Instagram stories, especially.

As for marriage stuff, I dunno. After 10 years, we still just like being together more than with other people. Maybe that's lame, but it's true. I like him more than anyone else, and if I had a day off, he'd be my number one choice of person to spend it with--whether that's running boring errands or going on an amazing trip.

rdaneel0

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #86 on: December 04, 2018, 04:15:56 PM »
In addition to really appreciating the work of Gottman and the 5 Love Languages, my fiance recently tore this article out of the paper and we are working through it together: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/23/fashion/weddings/marriage-questions.html.

Having been together for almost 6 years now, it's not just for the newbie relationships.  We have often had wide-ranging talks on our philosophies of relationships and this article still got us to talk more in-depth than we have before.  We spent hours talking through just the first 4 on a recent backpacking trip and decided we'd do the next set on our next camping trip - winter camping is great for this because you have such long cold, dark hours where it's hard to do much else than talk while huddled in your sleeping bag(s).  We're also adding another question about how we'd handle the other one becoming paralyzed, after listening to a recent Death, Sex & Money podcast episode where that happened to some newlyweds.

I think there are two points to this article - each topic is important in itself, but the act of discussing them engenders stronger communication and self-disclosure (i.e. more closeness) which is critical to a strong relationship.

Also, +1000 to love being a verb not a noun, from upthread.

Those are actually really good questions - so many of those lists are just ridiculous stuff that normal people would have covered within the first few dates, unless they were actively avoiding getting to know each other. This one is actually extremely practical and deep.

Agreed! One question that I think is so important and never seems to make these lists is: "What do you want from me when you are sad/angry/frustrated/not feeling well." People handle negative emotions so differently, some want to be left alone, others want to be physically reassured, and some want to vent about it but just be listened to, some want to brainstorm solutions, etc. So many hurt feelings result from miscommunication about wants.

Wekeeprollingdowntheroad

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #87 on: December 04, 2018, 06:28:28 PM »
Didn’t read every post- but kids will put a hurtin on a marriage faster than anything else in my observations. My advice is don’t have em 😁

If you already do, I got nothing

ilsy

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2018, 08:11:33 PM »
Didn’t read every post- but kids will put a hurtin on a marriage faster than anything else in my observations. My advice is don’t have em 😁

If you already do, I got nothing
Kids of all things? In my case kids were the only thing that kept me in the marriage for 7 years. Eventually, I have realized that the relationship was toxic for them and I. 

Plus, my current bf had moved himself from just "a guy" to "official mom's bf" by showing up immediately after a snow storm to "help clean my driveway" (even though I didn't want him to) while my kids were home and obviously he had to be introduced and promoted to "mom's bf."

Otherwise, good advices. I think mutual respect is a key for a long lasting relationship.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #89 on: December 05, 2018, 04:17:54 AM »
Didn’t read every post- but kids will put a hurtin on a marriage faster than anything else in my observations. My advice is don’t have em 😁

If you already do, I got nothing

Great advice :)

@ilsy, that's a terrible example if you're trying to discredit the quoted post lol.

HBFIRE

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2018, 08:49:42 AM »
To my younger self: The best investment for marriage happens before you get married.  Know thyself, and know what you want in a partner.  For me, this took a long time to figure out.  I'm slow.  Very fortunate to have finally figured this out.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 08:51:34 AM by dustinst22 »

partgypsy

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2018, 08:52:10 AM »
I think it depends on the people whether kids draw the couple together or drive them apart. Whether each individual has a team perspective (we are a family, a team, we are all in this together, and one of our primary missions is raising great kids), it can strengthen a marriage.  However if you are individual-oriented kids take a sh+t ton of time, work, energy, money. If you have the view the kids are a burden or taking away from things you would rather do that person can become resentful or withdraw from the relationship. Double if one of the kids has special needs. In retrospect I think this was the precipitating cause of my marriage break up (than the later infidelity) because after we had our 2nd child, who is a handful, that's when he started drinking more, taking off, leaving me alone with the kids, etc.   

OurTown

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #92 on: December 05, 2018, 02:36:53 PM »
"Bang weekly."  Good idea, or daily if you prefer.  Hell, if you are in your 20s, go for multiples per day.

Seriously, don't be afraid to tell your spouse what you like, and don't be afraid to give your spouse what he/she likes. 

Brother Esau

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #93 on: December 05, 2018, 04:37:27 PM »
Initial marital issues were because I was focusing on the minimal things that were missing from my "ideal" marriage. Once I realized how wonderful all the other aspects were, it's all good

kendallf

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #94 on: December 05, 2018, 05:50:18 PM »
Our 28th anniversary is coming up, and all I think I've learned is that I have no advice for anyone else's relationship. 

I met my wife and got her pregnant when she was 18; I was a broke college student.  We lived in a trailer and I made a water bed for us to sleep on because we had no furniture.  Kitchen utensils from Goodwill, broken cars all around..   I'm not sure what the odds for success are in general for such marriages but they ain't good!  Still, somehow, stumbling through good and bad and fighting and screwing up and loving each other has worked so far.

Kris

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #95 on: December 05, 2018, 06:09:49 PM »
Our 28th anniversary is coming up, and all I think I've learned is that I have no advice for anyone else's relationship. 

I met my wife and got her pregnant when she was 18; I was a broke college student.  We lived in a trailer and I made a water bed for us to sleep on because we had no furniture.  Kitchen utensils from Goodwill, broken cars all around..   I'm not sure what the odds for success are in general for such marriages but they ain't good!  Still, somehow, stumbling through good and bad and fighting and screwing up and loving each other has worked so far.

Aww, that's lovely.

Also, how do you make a water bed?

kendallf

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2018, 06:14:35 PM »
Aww, that's lovely.

Also, how do you make a water bed?

:-)

The frame, actually.. I should've specified.  Back in the day you could buy a water bed mattress for something like $20; I put together some plywood and 2x10s for a frame and voila!  You could also buy a cheap electric heater for it which was a plus in our crappily insulated trailer when it was in the 20s outside.  We actually had a series of these for probably 10 years, until we finally wearied of trying to get out of the damn things and bought our first real mattress.

Kris

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #97 on: December 05, 2018, 06:16:20 PM »
Aww, that's lovely.

Also, how do you make a water bed?

:-)

The frame, actually.. I should've specified.  Back in the day you could buy a water bed mattress for something like $20; I put together some plywood and 2x10s for a frame and voila!  You could also buy a cheap electric heater for it which was a plus in our crappily insulated trailer when it was in the 20s outside.  We actually had a series of these for probably 10 years, until we finally wearied of trying to get out of the damn things and bought our first real mattress.

I had no idea. I have only slept on a waterbed a couple of times. Hated it, so did not pursue buying one. They were just one of those phenomena that seemed like so much effort -- and so much potential danger of puncture! :D

ilsy

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2018, 07:57:02 PM »
Didn’t read every post- but kids will put a hurtin on a marriage faster than anything else in my observations. My advice is don’t have em 😁

If you already do, I got nothing

Great advice :)

@ilsy, that's a terrible example if you're trying to discredit the quoted post lol.
If I didn't have the kids, my marriage wouldn't have lasted as long as it did. Can't figure out what's terrible about it.

Villanelle

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Re: invest in your marriage
« Reply #99 on: December 05, 2018, 10:02:31 PM »
Didn’t read every post- but kids will put a hurtin on a marriage faster than anything else in my observations. My advice is don’t have em 😁

If you already do, I got nothing

Great advice :)

@ilsy, that's a terrible example if you're trying to discredit the quoted post lol.
If I didn't have the kids, my marriage wouldn't have lasted as long as it did. Can't figure out what's terrible about it.

Can you explain?  This has me very curious.  I find that sort of mystifying, unless you mean that a marriage that otherwise should have (and maybe did) end, lasted longer because you held out for the kids.