The Money Mustache Community
Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: Rimu05 on March 24, 2017, 07:58:45 AM
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Hi all,
If you are not an immigrant and have a similar experience do share. I've been in America for ten years (moved here when I was 15) and having moved from Kenya or as I tell all Americans "Africa" because Kenya gives everyone and I mean everyone, a blank look.
Nonetheless, obviously there are stereotypes about "Africa" hence the following are dumb questions I've been asked.
1.) How did you get here? I actually didn't understand this one at first but then I sarcastically answered I swam here and someone legitimately asked, "Really?" Another person told me that I could have come by ship. I had only been in America two weeks then, do you know how long a ship takes?
2.) "Why is your English so good?" or "Wow, your English is really good." I still get that to this very day. Someone told me this a month ago and I was like "Yes, I only speak it natively." I've known English my whole life!
3.) Do your ride elephants, walk around naked, live with lions, live in huts, live in the middle of the jungle, etc
4.) Do you speak African? Kenya itself has about forty languages and this is not unique to Kenya. Almost all African countries have multiple languages (NOT DIALECTS, we have dialects too). So this is like asking, do you speak European?
5.) I told someone in class that I had read Lord of The Flies in 8th grade and they were like "You read books in Africa?" I said no, we read leaves.
On a funnier note:
On an African comment section I was in I asked fellow Africans what lies we tell Americans and there were two funny ones.
1.) The air hostess taught me English.
2.) On the how did you get here question: All Africans are spiritually connected with animals and we use animals as a guide to travel hence we communicated with animals and walked across countries until we crossed the ocean and came here.
You'd be amazed what people can believe!
This is not unique to America, my African friends in the UK have similar experiences though not as bad as mine. However, even friends who are in Australia report the same questions. I also have had Australians tell me that Americans have asked them if they ride Kangaroos and I've had Americans get asked the same questions in other countries. Are we all fat?
Share your ridiculous questions as an immigrant. A great way to kill stereotypes.
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I regularly ask any Canadian I meet if he lives in an igloo and has a polar bear as a pet. No one has admitted to it yet, but I suspect them to be just too embarrassed to admit it.
When I meet a Mexican I ask him where in Mexico he's from. If it's some place I haven't heard of I ask how far it is from the nearest big city. The answer is always something like "X hours". Then I ask them if that is by donkey or on foot. They always say 'by car', but I suspect that they suffer from the same problem as the Canadians, too embarrassed to admit it.
I haven't seen many Aussies recently, but your post is an inspiration to ask them how many kangaroos they own and at what age they got their first koala bear (instead of a teddy bear).
I even heard that at the airport in Ireland everyone is handed a free pint of Guiness when they get off the plane. I can't wait to go there, it must be a great place.
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Not the same thing exactly, but within the US, different areas have vastly skewed views of other areas.
When I moved from SoCal to the Midwest when I was 13, all of the kids at school would ask if I surfed. Also, I'd get "How are you not tan?" I'd say, "Uh, genetics." I tried to get a tan, but my skin resisted. If that's the worst thing I've got going for me, I'm doing pretty well.
To be fair, I was legitimately surprised that there were so many people in my new town. I expected it to be nothing but fields of corn and spread out homes. Way fewer cows than I imagined.
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I'm from Ukraine.
I get "Are you a spy?" occasionally.
Some ask what language I speak. It's Russian. I don't remember Ukrainian. Then I have to explain to people why I speak Russian.
Then I have to explain for the next five years that I'm not Russian and regret telling people I even speak Russian. Adding, "I've never even been to Russia!" doesn't help.
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I'm from Ukraine.
I get "Are you a spy?" occasionally.
Some ask what language I speak. It's Russian. I don't remember Ukrainian. Then I have to explain to people why I speak Russian.
Then I have to explain for the next five years that I'm not Russian and regret telling people I even speak Russian. Adding, "I've never even been to Russia!" doesn't help.
Hah! I love the spy question. You should always answer 'yes. Is it that obvious?', or 'Yes. How did you know? Please don't tell anyone.', etc. You can have endless fun with that one.
It is hard for most Americans to understand how you can be from one country yet speak a language that is native to another. Perhaps if you explain it in terms of French and Canada? "Just like there are Canadians who only speak French, there are Ukrainians who only speak Russian". Or something like that.
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I'm from Ukraine.
I get "Are you a spy?" occasionally.
Some ask what language I speak. It's Russian. I don't remember Ukrainian. Then I have to explain to people why I speak Russian.
Then I have to explain for the next five years that I'm not Russian and regret telling people I even speak Russian. Adding, "I've never even been to Russia!" doesn't help.
Hah! I love the spy question. You should always answer 'yes. Is it that obvious?', or 'Yes. How did you know? Please don't tell anyone.', etc. You can have endless fun with that one.
It is hard for most Americans to understand how you can be from one country yet speak a language that is native to another. Perhaps if you explain it in terms of French and Canada? "Just like there are Canadians who only speak French, there are Ukrainians who only speak Russian". Or something like that.
That would have been funny if I was smart enough to think of that as a kid. Though it might have made people think I'm even weirder...
I could use that example, but those types of people might not even know some Canadians speak French. Also, a lot of people in Ukraine speak both Ukrainian and Russian--I just don't remember Ukrainian anymore because of a lack of use for 17 years.
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I could use that example, but those types of people might not even know some Canadians speak French. Also, a lot of people in Ukraine speak both Ukrainian and Russian--I just don't remember Ukrainian anymore because of a lack of use for 17 years.
Yeah, it probably wouldn't do much good in America. My Grandfather was French-Canadian and spoke French, but I didn't know there were areas of Canada that only speak French until reading these posts. People without ancestry probably don't even know French-Canadian is a thing.
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"Do you have cell phones in Europe?"
"Did you vote for the Queen?"
"My friend lives in London too! His name is John. Do you know him?"
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Not the same, but in a similar vein:
My girlfriend's family is terrified by the fact that she and I now live "in Chicago."
1) Chicago is big, and it's not 100% south side scariness.
2) We don't even live in Chicago, we live in a nice boring suburb almost an hour from downtown. We're nearly the only people on our block under the age of 70 (mid-20s).
3) Her parents live in what one would consider "the ghetto" in Phoenix. Police search helicopters every night growing up (I didn't truly believe this at first), people selling fake jewelry and god-knows-what in the Walmart parking lot, that kind of place.
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Not the same, but in a similar vein:
My girlfriend's family is terrified by the fact that she and I now live "in Chicago."
1) Chicago is big, and it's not 100% south side scariness.
2) We don't even live in Chicago, we live in a nice boring suburb almost an hour from downtown. We're nearly the only people on our block under the age of 70 (mid-20s).
3) Her parents live in what one would consider "the ghetto" in Phoenix. Police search helicopters every night growing up (I didn't truly believe this at first), people selling fake jewelry and god-knows-what in the Walmart parking lot, that kind of place.
Also similar: an out-of-state phone rep trying to make conversation after noting our address asked if we frequently went into "The City", like for outings/events. Um, which city? The little county seat 10 miles away, the bigger metro an hour+ away, the big international metropolis 3 hours away? Nope - NYC. Ten hours away.
NYS != NYC
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My last name is very common in E. Europe. But very unusual in Canada.
Whenever anyone I know encounters someone with the same last name as me, they assume we are related! Maybe not so strange but it does make me laugh a bit
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People are so stupid...
I have two to contribute. My wife is of Greek descent. She has been asked many dumb things but the two most memorable:
1) Greece? Oh, where Hercules is from.
2) Wait, Greece is a real place? I suppose they thought it was only a mythological place.
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I regularly ask any Canadian I meet if he lives in an igloo and has a polar bear as a pet. No one has admitted to it yet, but I suspect them to be just too embarrassed to admit it.
When I meet a Mexican I ask him where in Mexico he's from. If it's some place I haven't heard of I ask how far it is from the nearest big city. The answer is always something like "X hours". Then I ask them if that is by donkey or on foot. They always say 'by car', but I suspect that they suffer from the same problem as the Canadians, too embarrassed to admit it.
I haven't seen many Aussies recently, but your post is an inspiration to ask them how many kangaroos they own and at what age they got their first koala bear (instead of a teddy bear).
I even heard that at the airport in Ireland everyone is handed a free pint of Guiness when they get off the plane. I can't wait to go there, it must be a great place.
Lol. Priceless.
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"Do you have cell phones in Europe?"
"Did you vote for the Queen?"
"My friend lives in London too! His name is John. Do you know him?"
OMG, I get this too but even worse. "I have a Nigerian Friend, do you know him?" " Or I have a Ghanaian friend"
I had someone even tell me "My husband is from Ghana, he's going to be so excited I met a Kenyan."
I didn't have the heart to go "Why in heaven's name would he be?" It's like me going and telling someone from New York, "Oh you are going to be so excited, I met someone from California!"
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When I came to university in the USA, I wasn't allowed to enroll in classes until I had an interview with the Applied English department (where they discern whether or not immigrant students speak English). I'm Canadian. They asked if I had done all of my schooling in English and I said no, most was in French. The interviewer checked the box for me to take the TOEFL to prove I speak English, but I hurriedly told her that my parents are British, so I grew up speaking the Queen's English. She decided that was good enough and gave me a certificate certifying that I speak English without the TOEFL.
In Canada, when Princess Diana died, a friend's mother asked me if my family would be returning to England for her funeral. I went home and asked my Mom, who raised her eyebrow and pointedly replied, "We're not... monarchists."
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I'm sure anyone else from New Mexico can relate.
"Why is your English so good?"
"Do you need a passport to visit the US?"
"You mean like Mexico City?"
Thanks to Breaking Bad it's less of an issue than it used to be.
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I'm sure anyone else from New Mexico can relate.
"Why is your English so good?"
"Do you need a passport to visit the US?"
"You mean like Mexico City?"
Thanks to Breaking Bad it's less of an issue than it used to be.
It's even worse for Puerto Ricans. The vast majority of Americans have no idea Puerto Rico is part of the United States, let alone place it on a map.
So they'll get questions like "how hard was it to immigrate" or "when are you becoming a citizen".
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Also similar: an out-of-state phone rep trying to make conversation after noting our address asked if we frequently went into "The City", like for outings/events. Um, which city? The little county seat 10 miles away, the bigger metro an hour+ away, the big international metropolis 3 hours away? Nope - NYC. Ten hours away.
NYS != NYC
Worse still: we ate dinner in a restaurant in a suburb of Raleigh, NC, and the waiter kept talking about things in "the city". He didn't mean Raleigh, he really was talking about NYC, and expected us to know that!
Also, I was at a meet and greet once here in the US. When a fan mentioned she'd come from New Zealand, the artist said "oh, did you fly or did you drive?" Seriously?
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I'm sure anyone else from New Mexico can relate.
"Why is your English so good?"
"Do you need a passport to visit the US?"
"You mean like Mexico City?"
Thanks to Breaking Bad it's less of an issue than it used to be.
It's even worse for Puerto Ricans. The vast majority of Americans have no idea Puerto Rico is part of the United States, let alone place it on a map.
So they'll get questions like "how hard was it to immigrate" or "when are you becoming a citizen".
Had an unfortunate incident on a holiday years ago, when I accidentally referred to a big man from Puerto Rico as being from Costa Rica.
There was hell to pay.
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Hi all,
If you are not an immigrant and have a similar experience do share. I've been in America for ten years (moved here when I was 15) and having moved from Kenya or as I tell all Americans "Africa" because Kenya gives everyone and I mean everyone, a blank look.
Surely you jest about Americans not knowing where it is? Wasn't your previous president was born in Kenya?
;)
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I'm from Ukraine.
I get "Are you a spy?" occasionally.
Some ask what language I speak. It's Russian. I don't remember Ukrainian. Then I have to explain to people why I speak Russian.
Then I have to explain for the next five years that I'm not Russian and regret telling people I even speak Russian. Adding, "I've never even been to Russia!" doesn't help.
Превед!
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I'm sure anyone else from New Mexico can relate.
"Why is your English so good?"
"Do you need a passport to visit the US?"
"You mean like Mexico City?"
Thanks to Breaking Bad it's less of an issue than it used to be.
Oh yeah. New Mexicans can definitely relate.
I've been asked if it is safe to drink the water in New Mexico. I've been told numerous times that my English is very good. I've known many Americans that couldn't find New Mexico on a map.
Then there was that time when the ticket office for the Atlanta Olympic Games told New Mexicans they needed to call the Mexican Olympic Committee to buy tickets for the games.
http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1996/New-Mexico-Olympic-Fan-Runs-Into-Geography-Gaffe/id-366bfcffe7e6abd34923a387d6b3ee98
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I'm sure anyone else from New Mexico can relate.
"Why is your English so good?"
"Do you need a passport to visit the US?"
"You mean like Mexico City?"
Thanks to Breaking Bad it's less of an issue than it used to be.
Oh yeah. New Mexicans can definitely relate.
I've been asked if it is safe to drink the water in New Mexico. I've been told numerous times that my English is very good. I've known many Americans that couldn't find New Mexico on a map.
Then there was that time when the ticket office for the Atlanta Olympic Games told New Mexicans they needed to call the Mexican Olympic Committee to buy tickets for the games.
http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1996/New-Mexico-Olympic-Fan-Runs-Into-Geography-Gaffe/id-366bfcffe7e6abd34923a387d6b3ee98
WHAT? Americans don't know New Mexico is a state? I'm terrible with geography, but even I know it's one of those square-ish ones. Near Mexico. Gimme a gold star, please.
Then again, I did spend my formative years playing the thrilling game of "be quizzed on all the state capitals while your sibling looks on in disgust." Say what you want about me, but I know my states.
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I was born in the US, first generation American. My grandparents are from Spain.
During college, I did an internship in the Chicagoland area. This was right before the Barcelona Olympics. A coworker that had never left the state of Illinois came to talk with me because she was really into equestrian sports and was going to go to the Barcelona Olympics. She was really excited for her trip, but also very concerned. She asked me if she would have to take the bus filled with chickens and pigs while in Barcelona. I guess she thought it was a rural place.
I replied...uh no...Barcelona is way more urban and cultured than this suburb of Chicago you live in. Well I didn't say it exactly like that, but I did calm her fears.
Oh and everyone asked me if I grew up eating burritos. I do love burritos, don't get me wrong, but no, not all Spanish speaking people grow up eating burritos.
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1.) How did you get here? I actually didn't understand this one at first but then I sarcastically answered I swam here and someone legitimately asked, "Really?" Another person told me that I could have come by ship. I had only been in America two weeks then, do you know how long a ship takes?
2.) "Why is your English so good?" or "Wow, your English is really good." I still get that to this very day. Someone told me this a month ago and I was like "Yes, I only speak it natively." I've known English my whole life!
3.) Do your ride elephants, walk around naked, live with lions, live in huts, live in the middle of the jungle, etc
4.) Do you speak African? Kenya itself has about forty languages and this is not unique to Kenya. Almost all African countries have multiple languages (NOT DIALECTS, we have dialects too). So this is like asking, do you speak European?
5.) I told someone in class that I had read Lord of The Flies in 8th grade and they were like "You read books in Africa?" I said no, we read leaves.
I clicked this thread fully expecting to be disappointed in your disgust of legitimate questions from genuinely curious people. But yeah, I agree with you, these questions are just plain stupid.
But hey, do you know my friend Vivian from Liberia? (Just kidding.)
I know relatively little about Kenya, but I'd really like to go there someday. My bucket list includes a trip to Kruger National Park, and I'd love to see other parts of the country as well.
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I live in our nation's capital, Washington DC. There are way too many recent examples about people not knowing that the District of Columbia is a real place and that our drivers licenses are acceptable "state" forms of identification. Liquor vendors and even the TSA have had to have clarifications after "misunderstandings".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/oh-the-indignities-that-dc-must-bear/2014/07/15/e99c486c-0c87-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.94dca4352d08 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/oh-the-indignities-that-dc-must-bear/2014/07/15/e99c486c-0c87-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.94dca4352d08)
http://wamu.org/story/14/07/15/after_incident_granite_state_liquor_regulators_say_dc_license_is_valid/ (http://wamu.org/story/14/07/15/after_incident_granite_state_liquor_regulators_say_dc_license_is_valid/)
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Also, when I was traveling around Africa, I was routinely questioned asked if I lived in a home like the ones on "Dallas", despite Dallas not having been aired on US TV in over 30 years, it was apparently one of the few american TV shows on the air in South Africa.
A few others told me they loved American accents and kept asking me to say "I'm gonna kick your ass". I asked what that was all about and they just started chanting "Jerry, Jerry, Jerry!" Ugh. THAT's our legacy to the rest of the world?
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1.) How did you get here? I actually didn't understand this one at first but then I sarcastically answered I swam here and someone legitimately asked, "Really?" Another person told me that I could have come by ship. I had only been in America two weeks then, do you know how long a ship takes?
2.) "Why is your English so good?" or "Wow, your English is really good." I still get that to this very day. Someone told me this a month ago and I was like "Yes, I only speak it natively." I've known English my whole life!
3.) Do your ride elephants, walk around naked, live with lions, live in huts, live in the middle of the jungle, etc
4.) Do you speak African? Kenya itself has about forty languages and this is not unique to Kenya. Almost all African countries have multiple languages (NOT DIALECTS, we have dialects too). So this is like asking, do you speak European?
5.) I told someone in class that I had read Lord of The Flies in 8th grade and they were like "You read books in Africa?" I said no, we read leaves.
I clicked this thread fully expecting to be disappointed in your disgust of legitimate questions from genuinely curious people. But yeah, I agree with you, these questions are just plain stupid.
But hey, do you know my friend Vivian from Liberia? (Just kidding.)
I know relatively little about Kenya, but I'd really like to go there someday. My bucket list includes a trip to Kruger National Park, and I'd love to see other parts of the country as well.
Kruger is in South Africa and I quite recommend South Africa too on account of living there and loving it. However, do add the Maasai Mara to your bucket list.
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1.) How did you get here? I actually didn't understand this one at first but then I sarcastically answered I swam here and someone legitimately asked, "Really?" Another person told me that I could have come by ship. I had only been in America two weeks then, do you know how long a ship takes?
2.) "Why is your English so good?" or "Wow, your English is really good." I still get that to this very day. Someone told me this a month ago and I was like "Yes, I only speak it natively." I've known English my whole life!
3.) Do your ride elephants, walk around naked, live with lions, live in huts, live in the middle of the jungle, etc
4.) Do you speak African? Kenya itself has about forty languages and this is not unique to Kenya. Almost all African countries have multiple languages (NOT DIALECTS, we have dialects too). So this is like asking, do you speak European?
5.) I told someone in class that I had read Lord of The Flies in 8th grade and they were like "You read books in Africa?" I said no, we read leaves.
I clicked this thread fully expecting to be disappointed in your disgust of legitimate questions from genuinely curious people. But yeah, I agree with you, these questions are just plain stupid.
But hey, do you know my friend Vivian from Liberia? (Just kidding.)
I know relatively little about Kenya, but I'd really like to go there someday. My bucket list includes a trip to Kruger National Park, and I'd love to see other parts of the country as well.
Kruger is in South Africa and I quite recommend South Africa too on account of living there and loving it. However, do add the Maasai Mara to your bucket list.
You are absolutely right...I got my safari areas mixed up, darnit. It's the Maasai Mara I want to visit. And as touristy as I'm sure it is, I'd like to stay a few nights at Giraffe Manor in Nairobi.
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OT I know, but add Ngorongoro Crater (Tanzania), Okavango Delta and Chobe National Park (Botswana) to your list as well!
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I haven't seen many Aussies recently, but your post is an inspiration to ask them how many kangaroos they own and at what age they got their first koala bear (instead of a teddy bear).
Koalas aren't bears, but drop bears are.
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I went to college with someone who asked one of our Greek students "so, like, do you guys still believe in all those gods and goddesses?"
Engineering school. Not kidding.
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I'm sure anyone else from New Mexico can relate.
"Why is your English so good?"
"Do you need a passport to visit the US?"
"You mean like Mexico City?"
Thanks to Breaking Bad it's less of an issue than it used to be.
It's even worse for Puerto Ricans. The vast majority of Americans have no idea Puerto Rico is part of the United States, let alone place it on a map.
So they'll get questions like "how hard was it to immigrate" or "when are you becoming a citizen".
This was even on display during the Justice Sotomayor nomination. The media kept saying her parent's "emigrated" from Purto Rico.. Ehh, in the same way you "emigrate" from Illinois to Virginia? It's called moving!
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I've been mistaken for my own children's nanny, though I guess these were assumptions, not questions.
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My husband gets eye waggles from men when it's mentioned that I'm from brazil. Not 100% certain what the implication is there, but it feels gross.
Take it as a compliment. They're just jealous they couldn't land a hot Brazilian!
My Wife is black (Haitian / Brazilian) and I'm white. When I get the "eye waggle" I take it as a compliment, even though I'm sure there are times when it is not.
I've been mistaken for my own children's nanny, though I guess these were assumptions, not questions.
Our Son is very light skinned (probably due to my extreme paleness), so DW has gotten the Nanny-Assumption before. Just roll with it, love life, and let the negatives roll off of you.
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Minds are blown when I try to explain how I am a white latina. Not hispanic, because my country is not a spanish speaking one. I had someone ask if that meant that I was pacific islander.
It always amuses me to think how people's minds would blow if a white person born in Africa got dual American-African citizenship--a white African American.
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I just have a habit of putting a positive spin on everything, and was hoping my comment would make the "eye waggles" not bother you as much. I apparently failed.
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Kinda off-topic but when people refer to Americans not being able to find New Mexico (for example) on a map... I've always wondered, are we talking about a labeled map or an un-labeled (just blank outline of states) map? Because I sometimes forget if it's New Mexico or Arizona that's to the east vs. west so I can't judge if we're talking un-labeled. But labeled would be troubling.
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Minds are blown when I try to explain how I am a white latina. Not hispanic, because my country is not a spanish speaking one. I had someone ask if that meant that I was pacific islander.
It always amuses me to think how people's minds would blow if a white person born in Africa got dual American-African citizenship--a white African American.
So, Elon Musk?
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I'm sure anyone else from New Mexico can relate.
"Why is your English so good?"
"Do you need a passport to visit the US?"
"You mean like Mexico City?"
Thanks to Breaking Bad it's less of an issue than it used to be.
It's even worse for Puerto Ricans. The vast majority of Americans have no idea Puerto Rico is part of the United States, let alone place it on a map.
So they'll get questions like "how hard was it to immigrate" or "when are you becoming a citizen".
Yesterday I saw a television ad promoting tourism in Puerto Rico. In big words on the bottom of the screen it said "No passport required". I couldn't help but think of this thread.
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I just have a habit of putting a positive spin on everything, and was hoping my comment would make the "eye waggles" not bother you as much. I apparently failed.
It gets a tad old for women when we are sexualized by random men and then told (by men) to take it as a compliment and that it's no big deal. I'm guessing Marcela is reacting to that.
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I just have a habit of putting a positive spin on everything, and was hoping my comment would make the "eye waggles" not bother you as much. I apparently failed.
It gets a tad old for women when we are sexualized by random men and then told (by men) to take it as a compliment and that it's no big deal. I'm guessing Marcela is reacting to that.
Yeah, it's a lot easier to say shrug it off when you're not the one constantly confronted with assumptions (or worse) based on your skin color, gender, accent, or place of birth. Vin, I know you're well-intended. This is hard to understand from the outside.
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I just have a habit of putting a positive spin on everything, and was hoping my comment would make the "eye waggles" not bother you as much. I apparently failed.
It gets a tad old for women when we are sexualized by random men and then told (by men) to take it as a compliment and that it's no big deal. I'm guessing Marcela is reacting to that.
Yeah, it's a lot easier to say shrug it off when you're not the one constantly confronted with assumptions (or worse) based on your skin color, gender, accent, or place of birth. Vin, I know you're well-intended. This is hard to understand from the outside.
The definition of privilege, which I continue to discover still to this day.
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Kinda off-topic but when people refer to Americans not being able to find New Mexico (for example) on a map... I've always wondered, are we talking about a labeled map or an un-labeled (just blank outline of states) map? Because I sometimes forget if it's New Mexico or Arizona that's to the east vs. west so I can't judge if we're talking un-labeled. But labeled would be troubling.
So, if you've ever tried to draw the 50 states from memory (meaning create the outlines yourself and place the names of states within the outlines), it's really really difficult! I'm not saying your drawing skills need to be accurate. You can just draw a circle for each state, etc. But by the time I get from RI to Iowa, I start getting lost. I know all of those states when there is an outline, but without the shape and the location to prod me, I just get lost. Try it sometime for fun or as a contest!
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I just have a habit of putting a positive spin on everything, and was hoping my comment would make the "eye waggles" not bother you as much. I apparently failed.
It gets a tad old for women when we are sexualized by random men and then told (by men) to take it as a compliment and that it's no big deal. I'm guessing Marcela is reacting to that.
Yeah, it's a lot easier to say shrug it off when you're not the one constantly confronted with assumptions (or worse) based on your skin color, gender, accent, or place of birth. Vin, I know you're well-intended. This is hard to understand from the outside.
I was reading a story about a person who met someone who was really tall, and they had a business card with the FAqs and answers.
Oh, here it is: http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/10/tall-teenager-has-business-cards-if-you-ask-about-his-height.html
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It is a well documented phenomenon that being from a foreign land automatically increases your attractiveness for the natives, up until the point that you become so ubiquitous to be considered a commodity.
An American who's a 6 who goes to Canada gets bumped to maybe a 6.2, but becomes a solid 8 in Germany.
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When my brother moved to the midwest he had some people ask him if our father was a wife beater. We are hispanic.
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It is a well documented phenomenon that being from a foreign land automatically increases your attractiveness for the natives, up until the point that you become so ubiquitous to be considered a commodity.
An American who's a 6 who goes to Canada gets bumped to maybe a 6.2, but becomes a solid 8 in Germany.
Hm, depends on many factors. In Asia thanks to cultural expectations and post-colonial history, most countries are paradise for white men, a bit less for other ethnicities --- it's routine to see male 2's with (local) female 9's. This is not the case for foreign women, however: the perception of our attractiveness is perhaps cut in half. Then again, maybe we (foreign women) aren't interested in being fetishized....I never was.
As an American immigrant to Hong Kong, I still get the "Oh McDonald's is American cuisine, you're all fat, well you're an exception hahaha!"
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Not a question, but I get a bit tired of that my Norwegian colleagues only associate the country I come from with pot. E.g. a person tells that his plane landed in Amsterdam. And immediately a joke is made about relaxing out. I am always the last one to get those jokes, because I am the last one among my colleagues to associate Amsterdam with pot.
Something else they always presume it that Dutch people skate on the channels all winter long. They obviously have no idea about how warm the climate is.
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As an American immigrant to Hong Kong, I still get the "Oh McDonald's is American cuisine, you're all fat, well you're an exception hahaha!"
Not far from the truth to be honest. If you're somewhat skinny and maybe have 5-10 pounds of extra fat, people in the US call you skin and bones and tell you to gain weight. If I was in my home country (Ukraine) I would be considered fat, or not ideal weight for a woman at the very least.
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It is a well documented phenomenon that being from a foreign land automatically increases your attractiveness for the natives, up until the point that you become so ubiquitous to be considered a commodity.
An American who's a 6 who goes to Canada gets bumped to maybe a 6.2, but becomes a solid 8 in Germany.
This didn't happen to us when we (Asian) immigrated to Canada. We were mocked because of our names, looks, etc. Being from a foreign land decreased our attractiveness for the natives.
But back on point, stupid questions I've been asked:
1. Is the only thing you drink tea? Do you drink coffee?
2. Do you know how to use a fork or do you only use chopsticks?
3. Do you eat dog?
4. What language do you speak in Canada? (This was from a college-aged American)
5. Oh, you're from Canada? Is that like, another state? (Also from a college-aged individual)
6. How can you be Canadian? You don't look white.
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As an American immigrant to Hong Kong, I still get the "Oh McDonald's is American cuisine, you're all fat, well you're an exception hahaha!"
This is how most of Europe see Americans. Fat, driving huge trucks, shitty food, and guns.
Now statistically they're not totally wrong though.. US does top the charts for obesity, trucks and guns.
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I regularly ask any Canadian I meet if he lives in an igloo
Igloos are only for camping. We live in cabins. Log cabins. With fireplaces.
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I went to get my CCW license a few years back in a more rural area than the Cleveland. The lady (officer?) at the counter asked me to fill out a form. In it, one of the questions was "Place of birth?", to which I wrote, "Caguas, Puerto Rico."
I returned the application and she read through it and looked at me quizzically. She then got up and went to the back to speak with a higher ranking officer(Sergeant?). Not going to lie, I was kind of afraid at that moment. I mean, I do look Mexican/Arabic'ish depending on my hair and beard.
So anyways, she comes back and asked if I had a passport? I responded yes I did but not on me. I asked if a passport was needed for a CCW because I wasn't aware of that? She said only for non-US born citizens. I was dumbfounded. I opened my mouth and closed it a few times trying to come up with an answer which would not get me arrested lol.
Finally, I nicely answered that Puerto Rico is a Commonwealth of the United States and I'm a US born citizen. No passport needed. To my surprise she then asked, "Then why do you have a passport?"
At that moment I got upset so I looked at her and at the officer who she had spoken to and I coldly responded, "Because I have been fortunate to have traveled to Canada, Jamaica, Spain, Rome and France, and as a US citizen, I need a passport to travel there. You should try it."
They both looked at me and realized there lack of knowledge made them look dumb, so they put me through the line and I got my license after about 1/2 hour as opposed to getting it a few days later.
THEN WHY DO YOU HAVE A PASSPORT.
Oh snap. That's amazing.
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Not an immigrant but I'm from Oklahoma so people assume we live on the land with our cows and oil wells. Someone was genuinly surprised once when I mentioned having an outlet mall!
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I think it also depends on how diverse the city is that you are from. I'm from Houston, TX and went to school with and worked with folks from all over the world. I now live in the midwest and feel like a foreigner lol.
When people in the midwest hear i'm from HOUSTON TX:
1. Oh so you are a Cowboys fan...SMH no I'm from HOUSTON we have our own football team
2. Are you a Longhorn or an Aggie?...SMH...no I'm a HOUSTON Cougar
3. Do you ride horses/bulls/ect
4. Houston must of have been nice an warm. lol no its swampy and humid Oh, is it near the water? Ummm, yes its on the Gulf of Mexico
Of course I ask silly questions of them too.
1. Whats the deal with basements?
2. You actually drive on the frozen lake?
3. What do you mean I can't get a breakfast taco or kolache?
4. Why is everything closed on sunday/after 10pm/ect
5. What is a supper club?
To be fair on this one, UT and A&M fans outnumber U of H fans roughly 10000000:1, and the national airtime for their respective games is skewed accordingly, so I get this one.
- Cougar Alum in Dallas
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Triple citizenship here, although I have a decidedly "neutral" (read: white skin, brown hair) look. Since my "look" doesn't distinguish me in my three countries of citizenship (US, Canada and France), it's my name and accent that baffles people. I don't have an accent when speaking in English (born and raised in the US), but I have a francophone name (Quebecois father and French mother). People don't understand how to pronounce it and wonder where I'm from. I'm from the US. No, no, where we're you born? THE US for F***s sake!
I have an accent when speaking in French simply because I have a mixture of Quebecois and French (my parents). Either way.... to both (Quebecers and French), I'm American, not a REAL Canadian or French. I've lived in Québec for 12 years, been a citizen for 30, but nope, not a real one (even though my name is Quebecois).
It gets fun at the Canada-US border. I'm obliged to show a US passport to come into the States, but then they ask me my status in Canada. Coming back, I have to show my Canadian, but my place of birth shows the US, so they ask me my status there. Basically, no matter where I go, I'm never actually home.
And for god's sake, where did the rumour that I can't have multiple citizenships after the age of 18 arise? Because I get asked that EVERY SINGLE TIME I travel with multiple passports.
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And for god's sake, where did the rumour that I can't have multiple citizenships after the age of 18 arise? Because I get asked that EVERY SINGLE TIME I travel with multiple passports.
Just say they're bending the rules for you because you are an FBI informant.
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And for god's sake, where did the rumour that I can't have multiple citizenships after the age of 18 arise? Because I get asked that EVERY SINGLE TIME I travel with multiple passports.
Just say they're bending the rules for you because you are an FBI informant.
The name's Bond. James Bond.
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I think it also depends on how diverse the city is that you are from or going to. I'm from Houston, TX and went to school with and worked with folks from all over the world. I now live in the midwest and feel like a foreigner lol.
When people in the midwest hear i'm from HOUSTON TX:
1. Oh so you are a Cowboys fan...SMH no I'm from HOUSTON we have our own football team
2. Are you a Longhorn or an Aggie?...SMH...no I'm a HOUSTON Cougar
3. Do you ride horses/bulls/ect
4. Houston must of have been nice an warm. lol no its swampy and humid Oh, is it near the water? Ummm, yes its on the Gulf of Mexico
Of course I ask silly questions of them too.
1. Whats the deal with basements?
2. You actually drive on the frozen lake?
3. What do you mean I can't get a breakfast taco or kolache?
4. Why is everything closed on sunday/after 10pm/ect
5. What is a supper club?
Well.....what IS a supper club?
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Triple citizenship here, although I have a decidedly "neutral" (read: white skin, brown hair) look. Since my "look" doesn't distinguish me in my three countries of citizenship (US, Canada and France), it's my name and accent that baffles people. I don't have an accent when speaking in English (born and raised in the US), but I have a francophone name (Quebecois father and French mother). People don't understand how to pronounce it and wonder where I'm from. I'm from the US. No, no, where we're you born? THE US for F***s sake!
I have an accent when speaking in French simply because I have a mixture of Quebecois and French (my parents). Either way.... to both (Quebecers and French), I'm American, not a REAL Canadian or French. I've lived in Québec for 12 years, been a citizen for 30, but nope, not a real one (even though my name is Quebecois).
It gets fun at the Canada-US border. I'm obliged to show a US passport to come into the States, but then they ask me my status in Canada. Coming back, I have to show my Canadian, but my place of birth shows the US, so they ask me my status there. Basically, no matter where I go, I'm never actually home.
And for god's sake, where did the rumour that I can't have multiple citizenships after the age of 18 arise? Because I get asked that EVERY SINGLE TIME I travel with multiple passports.
I'm a dual citizen and I think every one with a dual citizenship faces the issue of showing both passports otherwise you have to buy a visa. Well at least I do. Plus if I am a tourist, I pay damn near $100 less for safaris with my Kenyan passport.
Vous avez trois nationalites, c'est pas complique... (Don't know how to add accents on work computer...)
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Fun game...I'll give some questions I've been asked, and you all try to guess my original nationality.
"Where's your turban?" ... "Wait, not all of you wear turbans?"
"Were you born in a hut?" ... "Was it crowded?"
"How did you get rid of your accent?"
"Were you born on a reservation?"
"What age do you learn to ride a horse?"
and of course...
"Do you know Dr. Patel?"
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Fun game...I'll give some questions I've been asked, and you all try to guess my original nationality.
"Where's your turban?" ... "Wait, not all of you wear turbans?"
"Were you born in a hut?" ... "Was it crowded?"
"How did you get rid of your accent?"
"Were you born on a reservation?"
"What age do you learn to ride a horse?"
and of course...
"Do you know Dr. Patel?"
Maybe Mongolia?
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Fun game...I'll give some questions I've been asked, and you all try to guess my original nationality.
"Where's your turban?" ... "Wait, not all of you wear turbans?"
"Were you born in a hut?" ... "Was it crowded?"
"How did you get rid of your accent?"
"Were you born on a reservation?"
"What age do you learn to ride a horse?"
and of course...
"Do you know Dr. Patel?"
I guessed Indian just from the turban comment. That assumption is way too common, unfortunately.
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Fun game...I'll give some questions I've been asked, and you all try to guess my original nationality.
"Where's your turban?" ... "Wait, not all of you wear turbans?"
"Were you born in a hut?" ... "Was it crowded?"
"How did you get rid of your accent?"
"Were you born on a reservation?"
"What age do you learn to ride a horse?"
and of course...
"Do you know Dr. Patel?"
Or possibly Australia and you must be Aboriginal.
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Not long after I immigrated from Ireland, I had someone tell me I spoke good English.
I was also able to convince a co-worker that yes, all houses have thatched roofs, turf-burning fireplaces and cows in the yard. I said that we used to have to go to school on donkeys, but had upgraded to a tractor, which was much faster.
My mother did actually use a donkey to go to school back in the early '50s, but it was a donkey pulling a little cart that could hold four people.
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Fun game...I'll give some questions I've been asked, and you all try to guess my original nationality.
"Where's your turban?" ... "Wait, not all of you wear turbans?"
"Were you born in a hut?" ... "Was it crowded?"
"How did you get rid of your accent?"
"Were you born on a reservation?"
"What age do you learn to ride a horse?"
and of course...
"Do you know Dr. Patel?"
I guessed Indian just from the turban comment. That assumption is way too common, unfortunately.
Yeah, definitely Indian from the turban AND the reservation comments. So perfect
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I'm Taiwanese, in an area chock full of East Asian people and specifically Taiwanese people, even, and I still get some.... shall we say, fun questions and assumptions and comments.
- Not a question, but, "Wow, your English is so good." Ah yes, I've spoken it for 20 years and counting. I was in fact, an English major. BONUS: Someone asks me where I'm from, I tell them, which gets followed up by, "Oh, I can totally hear your accent." Hey asshole, I don't have an accent. (No knocks against people who do, but I definitely don't.)
- The standard [where are you from] interrogation, which goes something like: "Where are you from?" "The Bay Area." "Well.... before that." "Canada." "I mean, where were your grandparents from?" and so on and so forth until a suitably "foreign" country name is extracted. Dunno what a fourth generation immigrant might say but I'm sure it would be hilarious.
- Relatively harmless but kind of annoying comments like, "You'll be my Asian buddy and I'll be your American buddy!" I'm American too, you know...
- And strangest of all, once my boss's friend started going on this weird tangent about how Asians and other immigrants liked flourescent lighting because "we were so used to it in our native countries" and how Americas (aka white people) liked incandescent because it was warmer or something. Then she looked to me and asked me which I liked. When I answered incandescent, she chalked it up to me being too Americanized. I still laugh thinking about it.
- Dudes who think that because I'm a petite east asian woman, I'll be nice and submissive (ick) and fawn over them because reasons and get all huffy and offended when that turns out to not be the case. Gross, dude. I'm not here to be your ~China doll~
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I'm Taiwanese, in an area chock full of East Asian people and specifically Taiwanese people, even, and I still get some.... shall we say, fun questions and assumptions and comments.
- Not a question, but, "Wow, your English is so good." Ah yes, I've spoken it for 20 years and counting. I was in fact, an English major. BONUS: Someone asks me where I'm from, I tell them, which gets followed up by, "Oh, I can totally hear your accent." Hey asshole, I don't have an accent. (No knocks against people who do, but I definitely don't.)
- The standard [where are you from] interrogation, which goes something like: "Where are you from?" "The Bay Area." "Well.... before that." "Canada." "I mean, where were your grandparents from?" and so on and so forth until a suitably "foreign" country name is extracted. Dunno what a fourth generation immigrant might say but I'm sure it would be hilarious.
- Relatively harmless but kind of annoying comments like, "You'll be my Asian buddy and I'll be your American buddy!" I'm American too, you know...
- And strangest of all, once my boss's friend started going on this weird tangent about how Asians and other immigrants liked flourescent lighting because "we were so used to it in our native countries" and how Americas (aka white people) liked incandescent because it was warmer or something. Then she looked to me and asked me which I liked. When I answered incandescent, she chalked it up to me being too Americanized. I still laugh thinking about it.
- Dudes who think that because I'm a petite east asian woman, I'll be nice and submissive (ick) and fawn over them because reasons and get all huffy and offended when that turns out to not be the case. Gross, dude. I'm not here to be your ~China doll~
Of course you have an accent - Canadian standard. Since there are so many Canadians in show business, Canadian standard is not an accent for Americans. ;-)
The fluorescent lights comment was just plain weird.
Be a strong (former) Canadian woman. Americans must fear/respect us (so they don't want us as their next 10 states).
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Had a shipping clerk explain to me that moving some of my things from Texas to New York would be more because there's a "surcharge for the West Coast."
Not a big deal, but, have you SEEN a map?
(My sister is married to an Asian man and gets people assuming her children are adopted.)
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I am not an immigrant, but my husband is a first-generation American. His father was born in South America to Spanish expat parents but raised in Madrid. Both my husband and father-in-law are blond and blue-eyed.
So, first of all, no one believes that my husband is Hispanic, because of his coloring and incredibly Anglo name. Then, they don't believe that Spain is a real country, or that the food and culture might be different from Mexico. (The existence of tortilla española is intrinsically baffling.) Even people who should know better act....oddly...around peninsular Spanish. High school Spanish teachers wouldn't let my husband use words like vosotros or gafas, or the Spanish c/z pronunciations.
But the best part is when people will make anti-Hispanic and anti-immigrant comments on the assumption that they're in lily-white company. Oh boy.
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this is hysterical. If it helps it's not just the stupidity of people against immigrants. I am first generation american, my parents are from holland. The most common questions i get are:
What happened to your accent?
Are your parents from Pennsylvania? (PA Dutch is not Dutch Dutch.)
How can your parents be immigrants they are white? (No kidding. all the time. From americans and immigrants, apparently you aren't allowed to be a white immigrant.)
Do you speak German? (BAHHHHH!!!!!)
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Yeah, I'm Indian. Also, strangely enough, some people think I was born in Indiana...but am an immigrant to the US.
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Im English and have lived in Canada on and off for 40 years. One time about 35 years back someone asked me if we have telephones in England.
I thought it was amusing.
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Fun game...I'll give some questions I've been asked, and you all try to guess my original nationality.
"Where's your turban?" ... "Wait, not all of you wear turbans?"
"Were you born in a hut?" ... "Was it crowded?"
"How did you get rid of your accent?"
"Were you born on a reservation?"
"What age do you learn to ride a horse?"
and of course...
"Do you know Dr. Patel?"
Or possibly Australia and you must be Aboriginal.
Why would Aboriginal Australians wear turbans? or am I missing the joke.
This didnt happen to me, but my mates of Vietnamese descent but born in Australia were travelling to the USA and someone upon hearing their accent said "Oh I didnt know Australia had Asians"
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Fun game...I'll give some questions I've been asked, and you all try to guess my original nationality.
"Where's your turban?" ... "Wait, not all of you wear turbans?"
"Were you born in a hut?" ... "Was it crowded?"
"How did you get rid of your accent?"
"Were you born on a reservation?"
"What age do you learn to ride a horse?"
and of course...
"Do you know Dr. Patel?"
Or possibly Australia and you must be Aboriginal.
Why would Aboriginal Australians wear turbans? or am I missing the joke.
This didnt happen to me, but my mates of Vietnamese descent but born in Australia were travelling to the USA and someone upon hearing their accent said "Oh I didnt know Australia had Asians"
Not meant as a joke. I have been googling a lot on horseriding and this doctor. Dr. Patel only has connections to India and Australia. Then thinking about reservates, I guessed it had to be about indigenious people. I found some pictures of Aboriginals with a turban-like headware, although most pictures show people without.
I couldn't connect India with reservations, or is this just people confusing Indians with Native Americans?? Probably...
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I once tried to make a joke to some Spanish friends about all the polar bears in the streets in Norway. It fell flat to the ground when I found out they were convinced it was true.
The tourist agencies here have published lists of strange questions from tourists, like "when do the fjords close", and "why does the midnight sun look just like the normal sun".
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Fun game...I'll give some questions I've been asked, and you all try to guess my original nationality.
"Where's your turban?" ... "Wait, not all of you wear turbans?"
"Were you born in a hut?" ... "Was it crowded?"
"How did you get rid of your accent?"
"Were you born on a reservation?"
"What age do you learn to ride a horse?"
and of course...
"Do you know Dr. Patel?"
Or possibly Australia and you must be Aboriginal.
Why would Aboriginal Australians wear turbans? or am I missing the joke.
This didnt happen to me, but my mates of Vietnamese descent but born in Australia were travelling to the USA and someone upon hearing their accent said "Oh I didnt know Australia had Asians"
Not meant as a joke. I have been googling a lot on horseriding and this doctor. Dr. Patel only has connections to India and Australia. Then thinking about reservates, I guessed it had to be about indigenious people. I found some pictures of Aboriginals with a turban-like headware, although most pictures show people without.
I couldn't connect India with reservations, or is this just people confusing Indians with Native Americans?? Probably...
Oh ok. I don't think I have ever seen pictures of Indigenous Australians in turbans, though I am sure there are some out there :)
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I once tried to make a joke to some Spanish friends about all the polar bears in the streets in Norway. It fell flat to the ground when I found out they were convinced it was true.
The tourist agencies here have published lists of strange questions from tourists, like "when do the fjords close", and "why does the midnight sun look just like the normal sun".
American tourists have been surpriced to see big white snowballs laying around on grassy fields, visible from a tourist boat. (Tractor eggs)
Some Dutch people are afraid of tenting in Norway because they expect to be attacked by bears.
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American tourists have been surpriced to see big white snowballs laying around on grassy fields, visible from a tourist boat. (Tractor eggs)
Some Dutch people are afraid of tenting in Norway because they expect to be attacked by bears.
Are the "tractor eggs" big round hay bales wrapped in white plastic? That is what they would be here.
I see black bears regularly when I go to my sister's cottage near Algonquin Park - every time we go to the dump, there they are. Otherwise, no bears. Of course campers in wilderness areas are reminded to be sure food is well stored and inaccessible, or bears will visit.
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American tourists have been surpriced to see big white snowballs laying around on grassy fields, visible from a tourist boat. (Tractor eggs)
Some Dutch people are afraid of tenting in Norway because they expect to be attacked by bears.
Are the "tractor eggs" big round hay bales wrapped in white plastic? That is what they would be here.
Yes, they are. Some pastures lay very high and from a tourist boat you do not see them close up. Some people think they are big snow balls, even in midt summer.
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American tourists have been surpriced to see big white snowballs laying around on grassy fields, visible from a tourist boat. (Tractor eggs)
Some Dutch people are afraid of tenting in Norway because they expect to be attacked by bears.
Are the "tractor eggs" big round hay bales wrapped in white plastic? That is what they would be here.
Yes, they are. Some pastures lay very high and from a tourist boat you do not see them close up. Some people think they are big snow balls, even in midt summer.
Right. It's 25 or whatever summer temperature, and the big snowballs are still sitting there? Probably the same people who brings skis (not water skis) to Canada in July.
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Triple citizenship here...
It gets fun at the Canada-US border. I'm obliged to show a US passport to come into the States, but then they ask me my status in Canada. Coming back, I have to show my Canadian, but my place of birth shows the US, so they ask me my status there. Basically, no matter where I go, I'm never actually home.
And for god's sake, where did the rumour that I can't have multiple citizenships after the age of 18 arise? Because I get asked that EVERY SINGLE TIME I travel with multiple passports.
I am also a triple citizen! Canada-US-Great Britain.
Some customs official once told me that I should use the same passport when entering and leaving the country, and it should be the passport from the country where I live to avoid confusion. So for me, I exit the US on my US passport and enter the US on my US passport (I stand in the non-citizen line for Canada). All of the questions they ask then go naturally - Where are you staying? How long are you staying? What is the purpose of your visit?
I used to carry my Canadian passport just in case there was a problem - but eventually I let it expire. Only once in dozens of visits was I asked why I wasn't entering Canada on a Canadian passport if I was a Canadian citizen, and I told them that I was told to exit and enter on the same passport, and they decided that made sense.
But seriously with the questions about dual citizenship - it's not that complicated. I became a US citizen as an adult, and I still didn't have to renounce any citizenships!
One of the most common questions I'd get from the dual-citizenship thing was, "So you can go to Cuba!" No... still a US citizen. The US doesn't make exceptions to its laws just because I have another passport.
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One of the most common questions I'd get from the dual-citizenship thing was, "So you can go to Cuba!" No... still a US citizen. The US doesn't make exceptions to its laws just because I have another passport.
My guess is that they meant you could fly to Cuba from Canada/UK on one of those passports, and then when you came back to the US, your US passport wouldn't show a Cuban stamp. That doesn't change the legality of violating the embargo, but it does make it very difficult to catch a violation.
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I'm Taiwanese, in an area chock full of East Asian people and specifically Taiwanese people, even, and I still get some.... shall we say, fun questions and assumptions and comments.
- Not a question, but, "Wow, your English is so good." Ah yes, I've spoken it for 20 years and counting. I was in fact, an English major. BONUS: Someone asks me where I'm from, I tell them, which gets followed up by, "Oh, I can totally hear your accent." Hey asshole, I don't have an accent. (No knocks against people who do, but I definitely don't.)
- The standard [where are you from] interrogation, which goes something like: "Where are you from?" "The Bay Area." "Well.... before that." "Canada." "I mean, where were your grandparents from?" and so on and so forth until a suitably "foreign" country name is extracted. Dunno what a fourth generation immigrant might say but I'm sure it would be hilarious.
- Relatively harmless but kind of annoying comments like, "You'll be my Asian buddy and I'll be your American buddy!" I'm American too, you know...
- And strangest of all, once my boss's friend started going on this weird tangent about how Asians and other immigrants liked flourescent lighting because "we were so used to it in our native countries" and how Americas (aka white people) liked incandescent because it was warmer or something. Then she looked to me and asked me which I liked. When I answered incandescent, she chalked it up to me being too Americanized. I still laugh thinking about it.
- Dudes who think that because I'm a petite east asian woman, I'll be nice and submissive (ick) and fawn over them because reasons and get all huffy and offended when that turns out to not be the case. Gross, dude. I'm not here to be your ~China doll~
Of course you have an accent - Canadian standard. Since there are so many Canadians in show business, Canadian standard is not an accent for Americans. ;-)
The fluorescent lights comment was just plain weird.
Be a strong (former) Canadian woman. Americans must fear/respect us (so they don't want us as their next 10 states).
Ha! I'm actually not Canadian, though I did live Canada for about two years as a kid. I just roll through my list of "places I've previously lived" whenever people start grilling me about where I'm "from".
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Ha! I'm actually not Canadian, though I did live Canada for about two years as a kid. I just roll through my list of "places I've previously lived" whenever people start grilling me about where I'm "from".
That must make for an interesting mish-mash of accents collected in your brain.
"from" can be within a country too - I was born in one province, my parents were born in other provinces and grew up in even other provinces, their parents were born in more other provinces - I think we have covered 7 provinces at one time or another. And in my present small town, "from" means anyplace not here.
Keep being a strong (Asian) woman regardless of whatever nationality/background - stupid stereotypes must die!
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Can relate to all of this. I am from Uganda been in the USA for about 10 years. And I still get do I speak African. And then the store clerks speaking really slow to my parents who is highly educated only because they have accents.
In other news- habari gani fellow East African!!!
Hi all,
If you are not an immigrant and have a similar experience do share. I've been in America for ten years (moved here when I was 15) and having moved from Kenya or as I tell all Americans "Africa" because Kenya gives everyone and I mean everyone, a blank look.
Nonetheless, obviously there are stereotypes about "Africa" hence the following are dumb questions I've been asked.
1.) How did you get here? I actually didn't understand this one at first but then I sarcastically answered I swam here and someone legitimately asked, "Really?" Another person told me that I could have come by ship. I had only been in America two weeks then, do you know how long a ship takes?
2.) "Why is your English so good?" or "Wow, your English is really good." I still get that to this very day. Someone told me this a month ago and I was like "Yes, I only speak it natively." I've known English my whole life!
3.) Do your ride elephants, walk around naked, live with lions, live in huts, live in the middle of the jungle, etc
4.) Do you speak African? Kenya itself has about forty languages and this is not unique to Kenya. Almost all African countries have multiple languages (NOT DIALECTS, we have dialects too). So this is like asking, do you speak European?
5.) I told someone in class that I had read Lord of The Flies in 8th grade and they were like "You read books in Africa?" I said no, we read leaves.
On a funnier note:
On an African comment section I was in I asked fellow Africans what lies we tell Americans and there were two funny ones.
1.) The air hostess taught me English.
2.) On the how did you get here question: All Africans are spiritually connected with animals and we use animals as a guide to travel hence we communicated with animals and walked across countries until we crossed the ocean and came here.
You'd be amazed what people can believe!
This is not unique to America, my African friends in the UK have similar experiences though not as bad as mine. However, even friends who are in Australia report the same questions. I also have had Australians tell me that Americans have asked them if they ride Kangaroos and I've had Americans get asked the same questions in other countries. Are we all fat?
Share your ridiculous questions as an immigrant. A great way to kill stereotypes.
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As a southern man abroad I get a lot of Cowboy, big American, and comments about elvis. Non southern Americans generally think I am stupid and grew up on a farm because of the way I sound.
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I am not an immigrant; I'm a US citizen. I was born in Africa: North Africa.
I sometime check "African-American" on the government forms (to make a statement and because I object to the classification).
I've never been asked but I can see it in their eyes they are thinking "But you don't look black".
I've had a ready reply just in case someone ever does say it out loud :)
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I am a (white) South African, which means that I get some very special questions. As an expat in Asia, it really confounds people when you tell them you are from Africa but are white. You can almost see the wheels turning in their heads when they try and figure out how that is possible. Perhaps, they think I am an albino? But I explain about colonialism and then it makes more sense. But some seem doubtful, regardless!
But some questions/comments I have come across: (other than those already mentioned)
"Did you have lions in your backyard?"
(During the Ebola outbreak) "Is your family worried about getting Ebola?" [No, we weren't because they would have needed to fly for 10 hours or so to get to the hot zone...]
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I am a (white) South African, which means that I get some very special questions. As an expat in Asia, it really confounds people when you tell them you are from Africa but are white. You can almost see the wheels turning in their heads when they try and figure out how that is possible. Perhaps, they think I am an albino? But I explain about colonialism and then it makes more sense. But some seem doubtful, regardless!
But some questions/comments I have come across: (other than those already mentioned)
"Did you have lions in your backyard?"
(During the Ebola outbreak) "Is your family worried about getting Ebola?" [No, we weren't because they would have needed to fly for 10 hours or so to get to the hot zone...]
Were I you I think I would have taken the time to have a little sport.
"Did you have lions in your backyard"? YES or We were too poor to afford a back yard.
"Is your family worried about getting Ebola"? Not anymore.
But when you think about it, how many people from your "home country" know very much about your home country? (this applies to all readers)>
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I am not an immigrant; I'm a US citizen. I was born in Africa: North Africa.
I sometime check "African-American" on the government forms (to make a statement and because I object to the classification).
I've never been asked but I can see it in their eyes they are thinking "But you don't look black".
I've had a ready reply just in case someone ever does say it out loud :)
My brother-in-law told me (he's a real estate lawyer) that on some forms for mortgages where they ask for demographic information, if you do NOT fill out the questions about race and ethnicity, the loan writers are supposed to fill in the information based on what they think.
The final section on the 1003 – “Information for Government Reporting Purposes” – is
related to government statistics. The section is referred to as the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act
(HMDA) Section. It requests information regarding race, sex and national origin. None of this
information can be used to discriminate against the borrower, and it is at the applicant’s
discretion whether he/she completes this section. If the applicant decides not to furnish this
Mortgage Loan Origination Activities 10
(v7 | REV 2.0)
information, it will be up to the loan originator to make an “educated guess” concerning the
demographic information to report to the government (only in regards to face-to-face
applications; not internet, mail, or telephone).
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I am not an immigrant; I'm a US citizen. I was born in Africa: North Africa.
I sometime check "African-American" on the government forms (to make a statement and because I object to the classification).
I've never been asked but I can see it in their eyes they are thinking "But you don't look black".
I've had a ready reply just in case someone ever does say it out loud :)
My brother-in-law told me (he's a real estate lawyer) that on some forms for mortgages where they ask for demographic information, if you do NOT fill out the questions about race and ethnicity, the loan writers are supposed to fill in the information based on what they think.
The final section on the 1003 – “Information for Government Reporting Purposes” – is
related to government statistics. The section is referred to as the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act
(HMDA) Section. It requests information regarding race, sex and national origin. None of this
information can be used to discriminate against the borrower, and it is at the applicant’s
discretion whether he/she completes this section. If the applicant decides not to furnish this
Mortgage Loan Origination Activities 10
(v7 | REV 2.0)
information, it will be up to the loan originator to make an “educated guess” concerning the
demographic information to report to the government (only in regards to face-to-face
applications; not internet, mail, or telephone).
A govt agency once told me to do the same for employees on a diversity survey. This was the "diversity department" of a state agency! This came up because I explained that we do not collect this data on our employees. They really wanted me to go "well, gee, she looks like she could be Asian. He might be XYZ, etc". It was nuts!
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I always decline to disclose anything on these surveys.
It's none of their business if I'm a black female handicapped veteran or just a average white dude with too much reddit karma.
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I'm doing research using the national cancer database, and they sure do get specific on what part of Asia you are from:
These are the options for Race:
White
Black
American Indian, Aleutian, or Eskimo
Chinese
Japanese
Filipino
Hawaiian
Korean
Vietnamese
Laotian
Hmong
Kampuchean (including Khmer and Cambodian)
Thai
Asian Indian or Pakistani, NOS (formerly code 09)
Asian Indian
Pakistani
Micronesian, NOS
Chamorran
Guamanian, NOS
Polynesian, NOS
Tahitian
Samoan
Tongan
Melanesian, NOS
Fiji Islander
New Guinean
Other Asian, including Asian, NOS and Oriental, NOS
Pacific Islander, NOS
Other
Unknown
I never though of these as races, but Ethnicities within (Asian/Pacific Islander). I find the Pakistani vs. Indian "race" designations amusing since they weren't separate anythings until 1948. That's like saying Irish in Northern Ireland are a separate race from Irish in the Republic of Ireland.
Apparently ethnicities are reserved for hispanics and/or people with "Spanish" sounding names:
Non-Spanish; non-Hispanic
Mexican (includes Chicano)
Puerto Rican
Cuban
South or Central America (except Brazil)
Other specified Spanish/Hispanic origin (includes European)
Spanish, NOS; Hispanic, NOS; Latino, NOS (There is evidence other than surname or maiden name that the person is Hispanic, but he/she cannot be assigned to any category of 1 - 5)
Spanish surname only (The only evidence of the person's Hispanic origin is surname or maiden name, and there is no contrary evidence that the person is not Hispanic)
Dominican Republic
Unknown whether Spanish or not; not stated in patient record
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DH used to take calls as part of tech support. Often, the client would have to wait for a minute or two at a time, an be on the phone with him for up to 20 minutes to resolve the issue.
Client "So you are located in Canada, huh?"
DH: "Yes, indeed".
Client "What part?"
DH: "The west coast"
Client "Oh, I thought you said you were in Canada".
.....dum. dum. de. dum........
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Apparently ethnicities are reserved for hispanics and/or people with "Spanish" sounding names:
Yeah, for whatever reason the demographic questions recently changed. Now you have to answer what your race is AND ethnicity, where ethnicity is either hispanic or not hispanic. Ethnicity seems more like a cultural grouping but other than that I don't really understand the point.
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The tourist agencies here have published lists of strange questions from tourists, like "when do the fjords close", and "why does the midnight sun look just like the normal sun".
When I entered the Grand Canyon park I asked the ranger what time the park closed, with a smile she said "we kick everyone out at 6pm - no the place is open 24/7, have fun". Every park in my area closes at sundown or such.
I was an exchange student to Australia way back in the day. While going there with a bunch of fellow USA-ers we had a long discussion about if it would be summer or winter when the plane landed, we were not sure if "summer" was defined as the months when it is hot or the months of June/July/August. We knew the temperature would be opposite but were unsure of the seasons name. Is funny but did someone ever sit you down and explain that? :-)
I mostly grew up in California and everyone outside the state thinks everyone lives in LA and surfs with movie stars. Woman I dated for over two years always thought I was from a rich family in LA when I was actually from a lower middle class family and lived in a small ag town in Nor-Cal. Few out of California get how big and diverse the state is.
Years back I was on site in the Netherlands supporting a Dutch company that had hired a lot of ethnically diverse Canadians. Ten or so of us North Americans went out to lunch one day but no one at the restaurant spoke English and none of us spoke Dutch. One of the Canadians tried seeking French with the restaurant hostess; that worked and we got seated. Knowing the French speaking Canadian was born and raised in Vietnam I asked if she learned French growing up (France was a colonizer of Vietnam). This seemed a reasonable question to me but she burst out laughing and said no she learned after she moved to Montreal. I was not able to learn in what way it was so funny (are the Vietnamese pissed at the French or did she go to a small school that had no language programs or would French be the dumbest most useless language to learn there?), but she did not seem to take personal offence.
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I was born in Alaska... I live in Alaska. I grew up in Oregon. Because of the following map (popular in most text books for our impressionable school-aged children) I have been asked "why is it so cold in Alaska, and so hot in Hawaii? They're next to each other!" and "How come they always say that Alaska is North? That's not North!"
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--gtjVX_onkA/VUjYRqhKVEI/AAAAAAAAFzM/U0JgTDmud80/s1600/USA-Map-showing-50-states-compressor.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--gtjVX_onkA/VUjYRqhKVEI/AAAAAAAAFzM/U0JgTDmud80/s1600/USA-Map-showing-50-states-compressor.jpg)
Because of the Arctic Circle, I've been asked if I live in igloos, have seen polar bears, etc. Do I like the month of darkness? (in Southeast Alaska we only get down to about 6 hours of light... and it is often raining or snowing, but that not what folks are getting at).
Also, I'm white... Blonde with green eyes. But, I grew up on a reservation. To the person(s) who may or may not know Dr. Patel, I have been asked to define Indian as Casino vs. Convenience Store. For seriously. Apparently in the US it is not possible for Native Americans to own an convenience store. Neither is it possible for someone whose family might hail from the Indian Sub-Continent to own or work at a casino. Never mind that "all men created equal" jazz. Or the bootstrap fantasy. I can't wait until I am able to start traveling internationally. Maybe for others Alaska is not in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
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The tourist agencies here have published lists of strange questions from tourists, like "when do the fjords close", and "why does the midnight sun look just like the normal sun".
When I entered the Grand Canyon park I asked the ranger what time the park closed, with a smile she said "we kick everyone out at 6pm - no the place is open 24/7, have fun". Every park in my area closes at sundown or such.
We have more than a thousand fjords, starting in south at the Swedish border with Iddefjorden, and ending in north at the Russian border with Varangerfjorden, spread over 100 000 km of coast line. Closing the fjords can only be done by closing our entire border (land and sea). And that doesn't count the fjords in Svalbard, etc. 90 % of the towns are located at or in a fjord. So I'm pretty sure that tourist had already crossed at least one fjord, and/or would see one if he looked out the window.
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Apparently ethnicities are reserved for hispanics and/or people with "Spanish" sounding names:
Yeah, for whatever reason the demographic questions recently changed. Now you have to answer what your race is AND ethnicity, where ethnicity is either hispanic or not hispanic. Ethnicity seems more like a cultural grouping but other than that I don't really understand the point.
Well, I don't know how it is for other ethnicities, but the way the term hispanic is used can be confusing, because it really is not a race. I guess it depends on what the questions are intended to bring out in the survey above.
For example, Cubans can be black, white, middle eastern (lots of Lebanese), Chinese origin, and of course the native Cuban people before everyone else arrived.
I am not sure how I would answer the survey above as I was born American of Cuban born parents, of Spanish born grandparents. It seems like I'd hit at least 3 of the categories in that survey.
I do get a lot of "you don't look hispanic" comments in other parts of the US and it kind of pisses me off, but I realize it's more people's unfamiliarity with the wide range of people that consider themselves hispanic.
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Why do you need those etnicity categories? I get that it can be interesting in some types of statistics, but it seems like you collect that data for anything and everything. I can't remember ever being asked those questions in the Nordic countries. For my little family, it would look really weird, since my daughters identify as indigenous (Sami), while neither my husband nor I do.
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Why do you need those etnicity categories? I get that it can be interesting in some types of statistics, but it seems like you collect that data for anything and everything. I can't remember ever being asked those questions in the Nordic countries. For my little family, it would look really weird, since my daughters identify as indigenous (Sami), while neither my husband nor I do.
This is probably a stupid question but how can your children be Indigenous if you and your husband arent?
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Why do you need those etnicity categories? I get that it can be interesting in some types of statistics, but it seems like you collect that data for anything and everything. I can't remember ever being asked those questions in the Nordic countries. For my little family, it would look really weird, since my daughters identify as indigenous (Sami), while neither my husband nor I do.
Not sure what your feelings are on the subject, and it's not my fight, so sorry if I come off as insensitive with this post:
Perhaps if certain Nordic governments collected statistics and information about Sami they would pay more attention to Sami needs and at least make an effort to reduce discrimination against them.
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...
The tourist agencies here have published lists of strange questions from tourists, like "when do the fjords close", and "why does the midnight sun look just like the normal sun".
When I entered the Grand Canyon park I asked the ranger what time the park closed, with a smile she said "we kick everyone out at 6pm - no the place is open 24/7, have fun". Every park in my area closes at sundown or such.
We have more than a thousand fjords, starting in south at the Swedish border with Iddefjorden, and ending in north at the Russian border with Varangerfjorden, spread over 100 000 km of coast line. Closing the fjords can only be done by closing our entire border (land and sea). And that doesn't count the fjords in Svalbard, etc. 90 % of the towns are located at or in a fjord. So I'm pretty sure that tourist had already crossed at least one fjord, and/or would see one if he looked out the window.
:-) I was assuming "when do the fjords close" was not as dumb as that ie referring to a fjord in front of the asker.
As for closing the border, the US is working on that one :-(
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I have a coworker from Spain. He has a freckles and glorious ginger hair. Is he supposed to check the "hispanic" box?
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I have a coworker from Spain. He has a freckles and glorious ginger hair. Is he supposed to check the "hispanic" box?
Yes. Hispanic is a cultural group that is generally defined as encompassing the entire Iberian peninsula, Mexico, Central and South America, plus parts of the Caribbean that were colonized by Spain and Portugal.
Your coworker is white and Hispanic. My blond-haired, blue-eyed husband and father-in-law are white and Hispanic.
Ronaldinho is black and Hispanic. Evo Morales is indigenous and Hispanic.
However, only Ronaldinho and Evo Morales are Latino (or "latinx", which seems to be preferred?). That term typically excludes the Iberian peninsula to focus on the colonized areas of the Western Hemisphere.
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Why do you need those etnicity categories? I get that it can be interesting in some types of statistics, but it seems like you collect that data for anything and everything. I can't remember ever being asked those questions in the Nordic countries. For my little family, it would look really weird, since my daughters identify as indigenous (Sami), while neither my husband nor I do.
This is probably a stupid question but how can your children be Indigenous if you and your husband arent?
Because the definition of Sami is that you have at least one great grandparent who was Sami, and that you self identify as Sami. My husband is at least 1/4 Sami, but due to the old discrimination he has lost the identity (it was not something their family would speak about). Our girls have grown up learning to be proud of their heritage, and have managed to get their grandmother to speak about it again.
Why do you need those etnicity categories? I get that it can be interesting in some types of statistics, but it seems like you collect that data for anything and everything. I can't remember ever being asked those questions in the Nordic countries. For my little family, it would look really weird, since my daughters identify as indigenous (Sami), while neither my husband nor I do.
Not sure what your feelings are on the subject, and it's not my fight, so sorry if I come off as insensitive with this post:
Perhaps if certain Nordic governments collected statistics and information about Sami they would pay more attention to Sami needs and at least make an effort to reduce discrimination against them.
Why? How? As it is, we have plenty of information to show us there are problems. The Sami parliament has described those problems, and what they think are some of the solutions. We need to focus on implementing the solutions, not on more data gathering. When the Sami Parliament tells us that we should not use their reindeer grazing areas for gold mines, it makes no difference whether there are 10 000 or 12 000 Sami people 1600 km away in Oslo, and which bank they choose. To preserve the south sami language, the last school has to be kept, although we only know about 300 language users. Would it make a difference if there were 471 known language users? No.
Daily discrimination and racism is a big problem. But I don't see how registering random data will help? Especially since there is no reliable way you can tell a Norwegian and a Sami person apart visually. These three guys show some of the variation: https://digitaltmuseum.no/011013407743/roland-bonaparte-sin-samling-portrett-av-jon-aslaksen-mienna-aslak-jonsen?i=12 Some of the worst slurs come from people who are in fact trying to hide that they have Sami background.
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Are you defining "White / Black / Indigenous Hispanic" based only on their physical attributes and/or the options given in government forms?
For my family, Ronaldinho and Evo Morales, I used what they themselves have stated as their identity. This is also consistent with US census data, except that US forms would use "American Indian" while Bolivian ones use "Indigenous" ("indígeno/a"), but both terms mean "of a racial group native to North and South America".
Technically, Ronaldinho's racial and ethnic identity is rooted in Brazilian conventions for those groups, which are different than US ones and not something I'm familiar enough with to explain. But he has self-identified as "black", specifically around racial slights he suffered while playing in La Liga in Spain.
I don't know how Paul's coworker self-identifies, but someone who is fair and has red hair is generally understood to be white. He would be considered "Hispanic" according to most definitions because he is from Spain.
Over the years I've simplified these designations to three categories:
Spanish/Español - People from Spain (España).
Hispanic/Hispano - Any spanish speaking person from a Spanish speaking country (Not Spain).
Latin/Latino - South American and Caribbean people - regardless of language. For example, Brazilians and Haitians are latin but not Hispanics since Spanish is not their native tongue.
I have also heard these same definitions, but they are not the most common or what is used by the US census.
The definition of Hispanic or Latino Origin used in the 2010 Census is: “Hispanic or Latino” refers to a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race.
The main difference that I see with your definitions as opposed to most common ones is separating people from Spain from the larger Hispanic group.
It is somewhat more common to exclude Portuguese and Brazilians from "Hispanic", but to include Brazilians in "Latino". This ends up getting weird fast if the definitions include Spain and its colonies, plus Brazil, but exclude Portugal.
I don't follow the whole White-Hispanic (or other) designations. I just think at that point you get into a subdivision which gets more difficult than needed. It's unfortunate that we divide ourselves based on a piece of rock which we stand on. If we were inclusive I think life would be easier.
It might help you to think of this not as breaking down the pie into ever-smaller pieces, but as different ways to slice the pie in ways that make different kinds of research possible.
For example, if you are looking into hemophilia and malaria resistance, you care much more about someone's race than their ethnic group. You would want to look at Michelle Obama, Ronaldinho and Nelson Mandela, but not Jill Biden, Ronaldo or Oscar Pistorius. It doesn't matter if those groups don't make sense from a cultural perspective, you care about genetics.
On the other hand, let's say you were looking at what factors impact success at school. If the data showed that Hispanic children across all races are behind their non-Hispanic counterparts, you might make a conclusion that points to cultural factors (rates of English spoken in the home) rather than racial ones. That might lead to a solution around English Language Learning programs. If you treated Hispanic as a racial group, you might miss this because of data noise around the interplay of race and ethnicity.
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Why do you need those etnicity categories? I get that it can be interesting in some types of statistics, but it seems like you collect that data for anything and everything. I can't remember ever being asked those questions in the Nordic countries. For my little family, it would look really weird, since my daughters identify as indigenous (Sami), while neither my husband nor I do.
Not sure what your feelings are on the subject, and it's not my fight, so sorry if I come off as insensitive with this post:
Perhaps if certain Nordic governments collected statistics and information about Sami they would pay more attention to Sami needs and at least make an effort to reduce discrimination against them.
Why? How? As it is, we have plenty of information to show us there are problems. The Sami parliament has described those problems, and what they think are some of the solutions. We need to focus on implementing the solutions, not on more data gathering. When the Sami Parliament tells us that we should not use their reindeer grazing areas for gold mines, it makes no difference whether there are 10 000 or 12 000 Sami people 1600 km away in Oslo, and which bank they choose. To preserve the south sami language, the last school has to be kept, although we only know about 300 language users. Would it make a difference if there were 471 known language users? No.
Daily discrimination and racism is a big problem. But I don't see how registering random data will help? Especially since there is no reliable way you can tell a Norwegian and a Sami person apart visually. These three guys show some of the variation: https://digitaltmuseum.no/011013407743/roland-bonaparte-sin-samling-portrett-av-jon-aslaksen-mienna-aslak-jonsen?i=12 Some of the worst slurs come from people who are in fact trying to hide that they have Sami background.
Again, apologies for my ignorance - what I meant is that sometimes statistics collection can be vital to showing people that this racism exists and has real effects*, whether by monitoring the different health outcomes of Sami and non-Sami, employment rates, etc. Perhaps such statistics can be used by special interest groups campaigning for Sami rights, in order to pressure the governments to care about these issues?
As said above by other users, this can also be relevant when monitoring diseases, this can also be relevant to medical research.
* Verbal attacks can have real effects as well, but many privileged people easily discount them.
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Per a friend in Costa Rica where we were both spending a semester abroad.
Tico: Where are you from
Friend: The USA.
Tico: No where are you from
Friend: Arizona
Tico: No where are you from
Friend: Well my grandparents emigrated to the US from Mexico, but both my parents and I were born in Arizona.
Tico: So you are Mexican.
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Why do you need those etnicity categories? I get that it can be interesting in some types of statistics, but it seems like you collect that data for anything and everything. I can't remember ever being asked those questions in the Nordic countries. For my little family, it would look really weird, since my daughters identify as indigenous (Sami), while neither my husband nor I do.
This is probably a stupid question but how can your children be Indigenous if you and your husband arent?
Because the definition of Sami is that you have at least one great grandparent who was Sami, and that you self identify as Sami. My husband is at least 1/4 Sami, but due to the old discrimination he has lost the identity (it was not something their family would speak about). Our girls have grown up learning to be proud of their heritage, and have managed to get their grandmother to speak about it again.
Why do you need those etnicity categories? I get that it can be interesting in some types of statistics, but it seems like you collect that data for anything and everything. I can't remember ever being asked those questions in the Nordic countries. For my little family, it would look really weird, since my daughters identify as indigenous (Sami), while neither my husband nor I do.
Not sure what your feelings are on the subject, and it's not my fight, so sorry if I come off as insensitive with this post:
Perhaps if certain Nordic governments collected statistics and information about Sami they would pay more attention to Sami needs and at least make an effort to reduce discrimination against them.
Why? How? As it is, we have plenty of information to show us there are problems. The Sami parliament has described those problems, and what they think are some of the solutions. We need to focus on implementing the solutions, not on more data gathering. When the Sami Parliament tells us that we should not use their reindeer grazing areas for gold mines, it makes no difference whether there are 10 000 or 12 000 Sami people 1600 km away in Oslo, and which bank they choose. To preserve the south sami language, the last school has to be kept, although we only know about 300 language users. Would it make a difference if there were 471 known language users? No.
Daily discrimination and racism is a big problem. But I don't see how registering random data will help? Especially since there is no reliable way you can tell a Norwegian and a Sami person apart visually. These three guys show some of the variation: https://digitaltmuseum.no/011013407743/roland-bonaparte-sin-samling-portrett-av-jon-aslaksen-mienna-aslak-jonsen?i=12 Some of the worst slurs come from people who are in fact trying to hide that they have Sami background.
Thanks for the explanation of the Sami definition.
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Tico: Where are you from
Friend: The USA.
Tico: No where are you from
Friend: Arizona
Tico: No where are you from
Friend: Well my grandparents emigrated to the US from Mexico, but both my parents and I were born in Arizona.
Tico: So you are Mexican.
I happen to be Polish - as in Polish straight from the old country.
Ten years ago, in Texas: "Isn't Poland still communist"?
Fifteen years ago, in North Carolina: "Still speaking with that accent?"
Twenty five years ago, on a university campus: "Do you speak German in your country, or do you have some native dialect?"
Twenty-seven years ago, in a very small town in Idaho: "Do you have toilet paper?"
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The tourist agencies here have published lists of strange questions from tourists, like "when do the fjords close", and "why does the midnight sun look just like the normal sun".
When I entered the Grand Canyon park I asked the ranger what time the park closed, with a smile she said "we kick everyone out at 6pm - no the place is open 24/7, have fun". Every park in my area closes at sundown or such.
I was an exchange student to Australia way back in the day. While going there with a bunch of fellow USA-ers we had a long discussion about if it would be summer or winter when the plane landed, we were not sure if "summer" was defined as the months when it is hot or the months of June/July/August. We knew the temperature would be opposite but were unsure of the seasons name. Is funny but did someone ever sit you down and explain that? :-)
Last year, I landed back in Australia (I'm Australian, but we came from LA, and everyone around me had US accents) on 21st June. About an hour before we landed, the university student behind me was telling her seat mates that they would really love Sydney, because it was light at 5am each day there. When I pointed out that it wouldn't be light until considerably later on the shortest day of the year, and the middle of winter, my seat mates asked me to confirm what I had said - from what they said, I suspect they thought it was the middle of summer.
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Last year, I landed back in Australia (I'm Australian, but we came from LA, and everyone around me had US accents) on 21st June. About an hour before we landed, the university student behind me was telling her seat mates that they would really love Sydney, because it was light at 5am each day there. When I pointed out that it wouldn't be light until considerably later on the shortest day of the year, and the middle of winter, my seat mates asked me to confirm what I had said - from what they said, I suspect they thought it was the middle of summer.
Non-science students.
I love this map.
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That map's obviously wrong, because Antartica would've slipped off the top of the globe by now!
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https://youtu.be/OH1bZ0F3zVU
Had to be posted.
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https://youtu.be/OH1bZ0F3zVU
Had to be posted.
Never saw that - but loved it!
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This thread has got me thinking about something and it's kind of a weird question but I hope you'll understand what I'm getting at:
How come some people never ever lose their accent in their second language? Like, imagine you spoke French from 0-18 then moved to England and only ever spoke English and you were now 65 and still had a French accent. I just can't imagine how you wouldn't ever lose the accent.
Even if I moved to Wales I'd probably end up picking up a slight accent after living there for a few decades. If I moved to Poland and had to learn Polish from scratch and never ever spoke English again, I can't imagine still having accented Polish after forty years.
Is it something physiological? Is it different depending on the age when you learnt your second language? Are some people just accent-deaf?
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This thread has got me thinking about something and it's kind of a weird question but I hope you'll understand what I'm getting at:
How come some people never ever lose their accent in their second language? Like, imagine you spoke French from 0-18 then moved to England and only ever spoke English and you were now 65 and still had a French accent. I just can't imagine how you wouldn't ever lose the accent.
Even if I moved to Wales I'd probably end up picking up a slight accent after living there for a few decades. If I moved to Poland and had to learn Polish from scratch and never ever spoke English again, I can't imagine still having accented Polish after forty years.
Is it something physiological? Is it different depending on the age when you learnt your second language? Are some people just accent-deaf?
It really depends on you and the people you are interacting with. A friend went to London for number of years. When he came back to Australia, we all thought he had an English accent (with no Australian overtones), while the people he had interacted with in London knew he still had an Australian accent. Each language has certain sounds that are limited to very few languages, so it is difficult for an adult even to hear the sound - let alone to reproduce it. It doesn't matter how long a New Zealander has lived in Australia - we can still recognise their accent - one of my friends came over when he was 11, and would now be in his 60s and he still has a NZ accent!
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This thread has got me thinking about something and it's kind of a weird question but I hope you'll understand what I'm getting at:
How come some people never ever lose their accent in their second language? Like, imagine you spoke French from 0-18 then moved to England and only ever spoke English and you were now 65 and still had a French accent. I just can't imagine how you wouldn't ever lose the accent.
Even if I moved to Wales I'd probably end up picking up a slight accent after living there for a few decades. If I moved to Poland and had to learn Polish from scratch and never ever spoke English again, I can't imagine still having accented Polish after forty years.
Is it something physiological? Is it different depending on the age when you learnt your second language? Are some people just accent-deaf?
I think a lot of people do. I can think of multiple family members/acquaintances who are non-native English speakers but don't have a discernible accent.
Specifically, I'm thinking about my FIL and his brother. They moved to the US at ages 15 and 14 (I think). FIL has a noticeable but not strong accent, Uncle has basically no accent.
Is it because of the (slight) age difference? Is it because Uncle is generally more social/talkative? Is it because Uncle just has some innate language ability that FIL doesn't have?
This is more regional, but I lived in various parts of the US when I was young and moved to Minnesota when I was 11. When I moved here, I could hear the differences between my speech and my peers. When I was 18-22, I was repeatedly told that I definitely didn't have a "Minnesotan" accent. Now (31) I'm told by east coast coworkers that I do. I have no idea if that's true or not.
(Translation for Brits: It's like if I was born in Swindon, lived in Southampton, London and Leicester and then moved to Sheffield.)
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This thread has got me thinking about something and it's kind of a weird question but I hope you'll understand what I'm getting at:
How come some people never ever lose their accent in their second language? Like, imagine you spoke French from 0-18 then moved to England and only ever spoke English and you were now 65 and still had a French accent. I just can't imagine how you wouldn't ever lose the accent.
Even if I moved to Wales I'd probably end up picking up a slight accent after living there for a few decades. If I moved to Poland and had to learn Polish from scratch and never ever spoke English again, I can't imagine still having accented Polish after forty years.
Is it something physiological? Is it different depending on the age when you learnt your second language? Are some people just accent-deaf?
It really depends on you and the people you are interacting with. A friend went to London for number of years. When he came back to Australia, we all thought he had an English accent (with no Australian overtones), while the people he had interacted with in London knew he still had an Australian accent. Each language has certain sounds that are limited to very few languages, so it is difficult for an adult even to hear the sound - let alone to reproduce it. It doesn't matter how long a New Zealander has lived in Australia - we can still recognise their accent - one of my friends came over when he was 11, and would now be in his 60s and he still has a NZ accent!
I had a friend in high school who's dad was born in the UK and moved to the US in his 20s. Everyone in the US (myself included) would say he had a very UK accent. But when he went back there to visit, the Brits would say he had an American accent. It makes sense on one level but on another it is downright baffling.
Granted, I also know someone that was in Australia for a few months and came back talking at least 10% Aussie to my ears, so there is that too.
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This thread has got me thinking about something and it's kind of a weird question but I hope you'll understand what I'm getting at:
How come some people never ever lose their accent in their second language? Like, imagine you spoke French from 0-18 then moved to England and only ever spoke English and you were now 65 and still had a French accent. I just can't imagine how you wouldn't ever lose the accent.
Even if I moved to Wales I'd probably end up picking up a slight accent after living there for a few decades. If I moved to Poland and had to learn Polish from scratch and never ever spoke English again, I can't imagine still having accented Polish after forty years.
Is it something physiological? Is it different depending on the age when you learnt your second language? Are some people just accent-deaf?
I made the same observation when I lived in Europe and came to the following conclusions:
One huge factor is the age in which you learn the 'new' language. Those who learn before puberty are generally able to speak accent-free.
AND
Ability and talent. No other way to put it. Some people can dunk basketballs; even lots of 'regular' kids in High School. No amount of practice ever helped me dunk a basketball no matter how I tried.
However, with lots of hard work and effort I was able to grind most of the American accent off of my German even though I didn't start learning until age 19. I had lived in Austria and Bavaria and could convince non-Bavarian Germans that I was from Bavaria if there was a little background noise in the room. I could never pull this off with a real Bavarian, though. Since moving back to the USA, though, my American accent is back whenever I speak German, even though I speak it everyday with work :(
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+1 to age being a factor I think. DH is Czech - came to Canada when he was 16, and still has a slight accent after 40 years here. His brother is 3 years younger, and his sister is 6 years younger. Brother has a tiny accent only on a few words. Sister has no accent whatsoever. DH thinks he has no accent, and is always surprised when people ask him where he's from.
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I believe the biggest factor in carrying an accent for the rest of your life is the age in which you learned the second language and how quickly you "outgrew" your first. I came to the US in '94. I still have an accent. My younger brother who was 6yo at the time does not.
The outgrowing part is the everyday use of the language. I would say it took me until I was about 21yo to speak/use English more than Spanish on a regular basis. So although I knew English, it wasn't my main language even though I was in the US.
It definitely varies person to person though. I work with a guy in his 30s that has been in the US for 20 years and knew English for years before that, but still has a rather thick (and awesome) Slovak accent. Amusingly, he'll poke fun at a different coworker with a New Jersey accent (we work in the Chicago area) and the way she says words like orange (are-ange).
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Another example regarding language is the fact that I have what is called "Frenillo Lingual" (Google translate shows "Bridle Tongue" as the English translation but it's description it's rather incorrect imo) which means I can't roll my R's in Spanish. Which kind of sucks lol.
I had the operation to remove the tendon (?) underneath my tongue in order to be able to roll my R's when I was about 5yo, but even with the operation and linguistic therapy, I couldn't/can't. Apparently my mind can't break the habit. Crazy how that works.
By tendon, did you have your tongue clipped (when you have extra flesh connecting your tongue to the bottom of your mouth)? I had that done and had trouble with my R's. It was a terrible pain when the doctor clipped it, and it took me years until I learned how to curl my tongue to make the R sound correctly. Instead, I was replacing the R with a W sound. I think I had mine done in '91 or '92.
When I was in school, I had a friend studying for speech therapy. She said that I was lucky to have the procedure done because they've stopped doing it.
I attempted Spanish as my second language, but I never figured out how to roll my R's. That made me pretty discouraged.
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Another example regarding language is the fact that I have what is called "Frenillo Lingual" (Google translate shows "Bridle Tongue" as the English translation but it's description it's rather incorrect imo) which means I can't roll my R's in Spanish. Which kind of sucks lol.
I had the operation to remove the tendon (?) underneath my tongue in order to be able to roll my R's when I was about 5yo, but even with the operation and linguistic therapy, I couldn't/can't. Apparently my mind can't break the habit. Crazy how that works.
Join the club with us native English speakers. My lingual frenulum is just fine, but no amount of trying seems to get to being able to roll my R's in Spanish. "Perro rojo" generally comes out like somebody is crushing gravel. I'm still practicing when nobody is listening, though.
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This is all so interesting. French is my best additional language and even though I only took it at school people used to ask me if I had French family as apparently my accent was perfect whatever-the-French-equivalent-of-RP-is.
I have a friend who I thought for ages was born in Ireland. Nope - she was born in Germany and moved to Ireland when she was 18. You would never know she wasn't a native English speaker just from listening to her.
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I had to have speech therapy when I was a child because my mouth muscles hadn't fully developed yet. I had to practice words and sounds even though the medical advice was "when her mouth is fully developed, she will be able to make the sounds", but the speech therapists told my parents that if I wasn't moving my mouth to make those sounds, my mouth (or brain maybe?) wouldn't be able to even after the muscles developed.
That was also just about the time that my family moved from New England to the mid-atlantic region.
These are words that I remember as very different - both to my ears and to my new classmates
"Or"-enge v. "R"-enge (for Orange)
"May-ry v. "Mah"-ry (for Mary)
Bayck-woods v. bahk-wards (for backwards)
Wicked Smart (you know this one)
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My husband was born in Cuba, but his family moved to the US when he was 5. He speaks American English natively with no accent whatsoever. His brother, who is only about 15 months older, also speaks natively, but has a slight accent. So it's interesting how they can be so close in age but far enough apart to learn English differently.
I've always wondered if my husband has any sort of accent when he speaks Spanish, or if there is any difference between his and his brother's accents. I'll probably never know--I definitely don't speak well enough to really discern accents (although I can tell between N/C/S American and Castilian speakers), and he says he can't tell.
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I've never lived anywhere long enough to fully imprint a distinctive accent in my speech. People are confused as hell when they try to pinpoint where I'm from. I've heard guesses from South Africa to Poland.
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Haha just came back from a test-drive and saw a car with a license plate bracket that had a decal on it that read, "Speak English - Or get the fuck out!"
I mean whatever lol.
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/national_language.jpg)
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Haha just came back from a test-drive and saw a car with a license plate bracket that had a decal on it that read, "Speak English - Or get the fuck out!"
I mean whatever lol.
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/national_language.jpg)
I can't see what this has to do with anything. In fact, this comic might even be making the situation worse. Of course, most issues that are reduced to a comic strip only make the situation worse.
When you go to a Cherokee-speaking country, you can expect that the people there will speak Cherokee. Just like every other country or people group in the world.
Is the author implying that THIS is a Cherokee-speaking country, and so we should all learn Cherokee? Well, he's wrong.
Is the author implying that the early settlers to the New World found themselves in a Cherokee-speaking country, and so should have learned Cherokee? Well, he's wrong.
The fact is, when you go to a place where the people speak a different language, you need to speak that language too. To expect the people to begin speaking YOUR language is the height of ridiculousness.
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Is the author implying that the early settlers to the New World found themselves in a Cherokee-speaking country, and so should have learned Cherokee? Well, he's wrong.
The fact is, when you go to a place where the people speak a different language, you need to speak that language too. To expect the people to begin speaking YOUR language is the height of ridiculousness.
These two statements seem to contradict each other. The settlers came to a Cherokee-speaking* country, and didn't learn the language. So, you're saying that the artist of the comic is wrong in insinuating that the settlers should have learned Cherokee. Then, you say that going to another country, you should learn that language.
*Or whichever tribe's language was common near said settlers.
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This is aside from the fact of whether or not foreign language speakers should be welcome to speak their own language wherever they go. Of course they can speak whatever language they choose. If they're unable to speak the local language well, it will impact their ability to work and live comfortably, but they shouldn't be forced to learn the local language. That would be "the height of ridiculousness".
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I have a friend who I thought for ages was born in Ireland. Nope - she was born in Germany and moved to Ireland when she was 18. You would never know she wasn't a native English speaker just from listening to her.
This is how tricky language can be. If you live in the UK, you (or I) might not be able to differentiate her from a native Irish speaker. However, the true test is if the Irish hear an accent or not.
Not to belabor the point, but when I lived in Poland I met a few Polish teachers of English. They all had what I considered to be amazing British English accents. The local Brits in town weren't impressed, however.
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I have a friend who I thought for ages was born in Ireland. Nope - she was born in Germany and moved to Ireland when she was 18. You would never know she wasn't a native English speaker just from listening to her.
This is how tricky language can be. If you live in the UK, you (or I) might not be able to differentiate her from a native Irish speaker. However, the true test is if the Irish hear an accent or not.
Not to belabor the point, but when I lived in Poland I met a few Polish teachers of English. They all had what I considered to be amazing British English accents. The local Brits in town weren't impressed, however.
But so many British accents. I used to do volunteer activities with 3 Brits - 3 totally different accents.
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I've always suspected that older transplants keep their accents because everyone is too polite to correct an adult, but the younger the person is the more likely people will help him learn his new language correctly. Plus, younger people accept the corrections more easily.
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I've always suspected that older transplants keep their accents because everyone is too polite to correct an adult, but the younger the person is the more likely people will help him learn his new language correctly. Plus, younger people accept the corrections more easily.
I'm not a speech therapist, but I know some people that are and I think the reason is that your speech patterns, ability to format certain sounds are developed in the early few years of life.
That's one of the reasons why my speech tberapist sister-in-law insisted that my 2nd generation American nephews learn to speak Spanish solely in their first few years so that they could get the linguistic training done early. She knew tbey would pick up English easier in school. My brother and sister-in-law speak both English and Spanish fluently and without any "accent" in each and so do their kids.
I was born in the US, but my parents forced us to speak Spanish at home so that we would be fully bilingual. Among my siblings and friends growing up, we preferred to speak in English, watched English language TV, but as adults we have all embraced our full bilingualism and appreciate our parents' effort to force us to speak Spanish. We sound purely American in English and our Spanish doesn't have a gringo accent.
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Another example regarding language is the fact that I have what is called "Frenillo Lingual" (Google translate shows "Bridle Tongue" as the English translation but it's description it's rather incorrect imo) which means I can't roll my R's in Spanish. Which kind of sucks lol.
I had the operation to remove the tendon (?) underneath my tongue in order to be able to roll my R's when I was about 5yo, but even with the operation and linguistic therapy, I couldn't/can't. Apparently my mind can't break the habit. Crazy how that works.
I wonder if my sister has this problem. She can't roll her double R's in Spanish either.
I must be a mean person because I love to taunt her and excessively roll my R's around her and it drives her nuts.
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Another example regarding language is the fact that I have what is called "Frenillo Lingual" (Google translate shows "Bridle Tongue" as the English translation but it's description it's rather incorrect imo) which means I can't roll my R's in Spanish. Which kind of sucks lol.
I had the operation to remove the tendon (?) underneath my tongue in order to be able to roll my R's when I was about 5yo, but even with the operation and linguistic therapy, I couldn't/can't. Apparently my mind can't break the habit. Crazy how that works.
I wonder if my sister has this problem. She can't roll her double R's in Spanish either.
I must be a mean person because I love to taunt her and excessively roll my R's around her and it drives her nuts.
My American wife does the same thing lol.
I notice in my Spanish class, everyone has this problem (Americans) except me and like another person. Probably because we speak other languages. For instance, when we went through the Spanish alphabet, I thought to myself, heavens, this is a breeze! Very similar to the Swahili alphabet and considering my username is what my family and my Kenyan friends call me. I've got the Rs on lock down.
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Another example regarding language is the fact that I have what is called "Frenillo Lingual" (Google translate shows "Bridle Tongue" as the English translation but it's description it's rather incorrect imo) which means I can't roll my R's in Spanish. Which kind of sucks lol.
I had the operation to remove the tendon (?) underneath my tongue in order to be able to roll my R's when I was about 5yo, but even with the operation and linguistic therapy, I couldn't/can't. Apparently my mind can't break the habit. Crazy how that works.
I wonder if my sister has this problem. She can't roll her double R's in Spanish either.
I must be a mean person because I love to taunt her and excessively roll my R's around her and it drives her nuts.
My American wife does the same thing lol.
I notice in my Spanish class, everyone has this problem (Americans) except me and like another person. Probably because we speak other languages. For instance, when we went through the Spanish alphabet, I thought to myself, heavens, this is a breeze! Very similar to the Swahili alphabet and considering my username is what my family and my Kenyan friends call me. I've got the Rs on lock down.
In every Spanish class I ever took (I've taken Spanish I and II many times because of graduation requirements at various levels), I've only encountered a single person who couldn't roll his Rs. I'm wondering if that's because I was raised in New Mexico, so basic Spanish (and pronunciation) was part of the curriculum from a young age. I still remember the tune of the "dias de la semana" song I learned in preschool.
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Another example regarding language is the fact that I have what is called "Frenillo Lingual" (Google translate shows "Bridle Tongue" as the English translation but it's description it's rather incorrect imo) which means I can't roll my R's in Spanish. Which kind of sucks lol.
I had the operation to remove the tendon (?) underneath my tongue in order to be able to roll my R's when I was about 5yo, but even with the operation and linguistic therapy, I couldn't/can't. Apparently my mind can't break the habit. Crazy how that works.
I wonder if my sister has this problem. She can't roll her double R's in Spanish either.
I must be a mean person because I love to taunt her and excessively roll my R's around her and it drives her nuts.
My American wife does the same thing lol.
I notice in my Spanish class, everyone has this problem (Americans) except me and like another person. Probably because we speak other languages. For instance, when we went through the Spanish alphabet, I thought to myself, heavens, this is a breeze! Very similar to the Swahili alphabet and considering my username is what my family and my Kenyan friends call me. I've got the Rs on lock down.
I think it must be one of those things that some people can do easily, and others can't. After moving to South Texas, I picked it up easily. It just seemed sort of natural, no big deal. But I know a lot of other native English speakers just can't do it- or find it very difficult.
For any American who has trouble, look at the bright side. At least you aren't Chinese. My wife is Chinese and occasionally has some difficulty with "American" Rs, even though her English, in general, sounds almost native. I tried to teach her to roll her Rs when speaking Spanish.
I think I would have had a better chance of teaching Verne Troyer to be an NBA power forward. It just wasn't going to happen.
:)
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For any American who has trouble, look at the bright side. At least you aren't Chinese. My wife is Chinese and occasionally has some difficulty with "American" Rs, even though her English, in general, sounds almost native. I tried to teach her to roll her Rs when speaking Spanish.
(http://i.imgur.com/Zvet0.gif)
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I've never lived anywhere long enough to fully imprint a distinctive accent in my speech. People are confused as hell when they try to pinpoint where I'm from. I've heard guesses from South Africa to Poland.
When I was in college in Mississippi, and knew a family with the husband from NZ and the wife who was from the US. The kids had started out in NZ, but they'd been in Mississippi for a year or two. It was a bit of a trippy experience to hear their son talk with an accent that was half Kiwi half Mississippi drawl.
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Interesting fact: I am a native english speaker, but learned basic french starting at ages 5-8.
As an adult, when I tried to learn spanish for the first time, i had a french accent. Apparently, to me, all foreign languages are french ennunciation.
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Another example regarding language is the fact that I have what is called "Frenillo Lingual" (Google translate shows "Bridle Tongue" as the English translation but it's description it's rather incorrect imo) which means I can't roll my R's in Spanish. Which kind of sucks lol.
I had the operation to remove the tendon (?) underneath my tongue in order to be able to roll my R's when I was about 5yo, but even with the operation and linguistic therapy, I couldn't/can't. Apparently my mind can't break the habit. Crazy how that works.
I wonder if my sister has this problem. She can't roll her double R's in Spanish either.
I must be a mean person because I love to taunt her and excessively roll my R's around her and it drives her nuts.
My American wife does the same thing lol.
I notice in my Spanish class, everyone has this problem (Americans) except me and like another person. Probably because we speak other languages. For instance, when we went through the Spanish alphabet, I thought to myself, heavens, this is a breeze! Very similar to the Swahili alphabet and considering my username is what my family and my Kenyan friends call me. I've got the Rs on lock down.
Lots of languages have rolled R's, so plenty of third language speakers wouldn't have trouble with that aspect of Spanish. Even the Scots roll their r's. It's just not a thing in American English and English English.
Another example regarding language is the fact that I have what is called "Frenillo Lingual" (Google translate shows "Bridle Tongue" as the English translation but it's description it's rather incorrect imo) which means I can't roll my R's in Spanish. Which kind of sucks lol.
I had the operation to remove the tendon (?) underneath my tongue in order to be able to roll my R's when I was about 5yo, but even with the operation and linguistic therapy, I couldn't/can't. Apparently my mind can't break the habit. Crazy how that works.
I wonder if my sister has this problem. She can't roll her double R's in Spanish either.
I must be a mean person because I love to taunt her and excessively roll my R's around her and it drives her nuts.
My American wife does the same thing lol.
I notice in my Spanish class, everyone has this problem (Americans) except me and like another person. Probably because we speak other languages. For instance, when we went through the Spanish alphabet, I thought to myself, heavens, this is a breeze! Very similar to the Swahili alphabet and considering my username is what my family and my Kenyan friends call me. I've got the Rs on lock down.
I think it must be one of those things that some people can do easily, and others can't. After moving to South Texas, I picked it up easily. It just seemed sort of natural, no big deal. But I know a lot of other native English speakers just can't do it- or find it very difficult.
For any American who has trouble, look at the bright side. At least you aren't Chinese. My wife is Chinese and occasionally has some difficulty with "American" Rs, even though her English, in general, sounds almost native. I tried to teach her to roll her Rs when speaking Spanish.
I think I would have had a better chance of teaching Verne Troyer to be an NBA power forward. It just wasn't going to happen.
:)
In college we tried to teach a Korean friend to pronounce "mirror." Not possible. Then it got hard for me when I started thinking about it too much.
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Does this mean that my Anglophone French "r"s will transfer to Spanish?
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I have a friend who I thought for ages was born in Ireland. Nope - she was born in Germany and moved to Ireland when she was 18. You would never know she wasn't a native English speaker just from listening to her.
This is how tricky language can be. If you live in the UK, you (or I) might not be able to differentiate her from a native Irish speaker. However, the true test is if the Irish hear an accent or not.
Not to belabor the point, but when I lived in Poland I met a few Polish teachers of English. They all had what I considered to be amazing British English accents. The local Brits in town weren't impressed, however.
But so many British accents. I used to do volunteer activities with 3 Brits - 3 totally different accents.
http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/07/amazing-run-17-british-accents.html
I've been following this thread for a while. As a non-immigrant I've found it incredibly interesting, even though I have nothing to add. As it has morphed into a discussion on accents, I will comment two things. I have met a few people of various ethnicities (e.g. Indian, Lebanese) that were first generation US and perfectly bilingual in english and their parent's native language. However, they said that they were instantly picked out as american while visiting the other country simply by the way they carried themselves (even in traditional attire). I can't think of a time I have thought the reverse when meeting a person here in the US (perfect accent, but obviously foreign). Am I just unaware?
Also, I have a friend that moved to the US from Nepal when she was 11. She grew up learning English in Nepal and she doesn't have any noticeable accent. But she uses words just a little funny, for example, if offering gum she would say, "would you like a gum?"
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I have met a few people of various ethnicities (e.g. Indian, Lebanese) that were first generation US and perfectly bilingual in english and their parent's native language. However, they said that they were instantly picked out as american while visiting the other country simply by the way they carried themselves (even in traditional attire). I can't think of a time I have thought the reverse when meeting a person here in the US (perfect accent, but obviously foreign). Am I just unaware?
No, you are not unaware. It's just that the reverse never very very rarely happens. That is to say, not many Americans emigrate and try and assimilate culturally to their new country. American missionaries may go and may send their kids back to the USA, but I wouldn't say that they assimilate culturally--they're bringing their culture with them.
When I was younger and traveled the world, I noticed that there was only one country where Americans emigrated to in any sort of large numbers; Israel.
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I have met a few people of various ethnicities (e.g. Indian, Lebanese) that were first generation US and perfectly bilingual in english and their parent's native language. However, they said that they were instantly picked out as american while visiting the other country simply by the way they carried themselves (even in traditional attire). I can't think of a time I have thought the reverse when meeting a person here in the US (perfect accent, but obviously foreign). Am I just unaware?
No, you are not unaware. It's just that the reverse never very very rarely happens. That is to say, not many Americans emigrate and try and assimilate culturally to their new country. American missionaries may go and may send their kids back to the USA, but I wouldn't say that they assimilate culturally--they're bringing their culture with them.
When I was younger and traveled the world, I noticed that there was only one country where Americans emigrated to in any sort of large numbers; Israel.
Americans are very "loose" and lax with their bodies, as a whole. We slouch, we drape our arms over things, take up space in ways that are very noticeable to people in other countries who have a more rigid carriage. The distinction between public and private space in the US is very permeable, whereas in many other cultures it's not, so what we might consider just sitting (e.g. on public transport) looks to someone in another culture as "making ourselves at home", and not in a good way.
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I'm not an immigrant, I'm a first gen American.
The two questions I was repeatedly asked growing up were:
1) Where are you from?
I learned quickly that 'Michigan' is not the answer they want to hear.
2) So what does your name mean?
I've never known how to answer this one, or even why so many people assume foreign sounding names must automatically 'mean' something.
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I'm not an immigrant, I'm a first gen American.
The two questions I was repeatedly asked growing up were:
2) So what does your name mean?
I've never known how to answer this one, or even why so many people assume foreign sounding names must automatically 'mean' something.
"What's your name?"
"X."
"What does it mean?"
"It means person named X."
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Good one MrDelane! That reminds me of my experience:
"Why do you pronounce your name like that?"
The good: only three times in a year. The bad: this happened with the people I need to interact with most.
[I do not spell my name in an exotic way like Jayceson or Shan d'leer, and English speakers have no problem pronouncing it. German speakers however pronounce some consonants and vowels differently and some assume that although they're speaking English, and reading someone else's name in English, the name is "spelled wrong". Same thing happens to my coworker - she has a "ei" in her name which is pronounced /eɪ/ (as in pain), but our advisor pronounces it /aɪ/ (as in rice). After she corrected him several times, he said she should "write it correctly" if she wants it pronounced that way. I've been told on one occasion that I'm the one pronouncing my name wrong, and I should really stop because it confuses them]
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I'm not an immigrant, I'm a first gen American.
The two questions I was repeatedly asked growing up were:
1) Where are you from?
I learned quickly that 'Michigan' is not the answer they want to hear.
2) So what does your name mean?
I've never known how to answer this one, or even why so many people assume foreign sounding names must automatically 'mean' something.
I moved to North Carolina when I was 6 (from Ukraine) so I don't really have an accent. I also don't have a southern accent either, compared to most people in rural areas. But people still ask me where I'm from immediately after meeting them...I didn't think I particularly look foreign but whatever. I think what they really mean is, "You sound funny, why do you sound funny?" I don't always feel like going into the full history of where I was born (it's not like I remember anything) so a lot of times I just say North Carolina. Probably pretty disappointing for people.
I get the name meaning questions constantly too. Yours probably has some sort of meaning if you google it, but I think they mean that the name itself is a word in another language or something...
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My last name is norther German/Dutch and I have spent much time there for work and almost universally the Dutch pronounced it 'in English'. I am not sure if this is active on there part or they just read my last name as any other English word and it sorts it self out. Strangely I get way more trouble in the US with people trying to say or spell my name despite it being 10000% English phonetic.
When I was younger and traveled the world, I noticed that there was only one country where Americans emigrated to in any sort of large numbers; Israel.
No-lots of us move to Florida too :-)
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I have met a few people of various ethnicities (e.g. Indian, Lebanese) that were first generation US and perfectly bilingual in english and their parent's native language. However, they said that they were instantly picked out as american while visiting the other country simply by the way they carried themselves (even in traditional attire). I can't think of a time I have thought the reverse when meeting a person here in the US (perfect accent, but obviously foreign). Am I just unaware?
No, you are not unaware. It's just that the reverse never very very rarely happens. That is to say, not many Americans emigrate and try and assimilate culturally to their new country. American missionaries may go and may send their kids back to the USA, but I wouldn't say that they assimilate culturally--they're bringing their culture with them.
When I was younger and traveled the world, I noticed that there was only one country where Americans emigrated to in any sort of large numbers; Israel.
Americans are very "loose" and lax with their bodies, as a whole. We slouch, we drape our arms over things, take up space in ways that are very noticeable to people in other countries who have a more rigid carriage. The distinction between public and private space in the US is very permeable, whereas in many other cultures it's not, so what we might consider just sitting (e.g. on public transport) looks to someone in another culture as "making ourselves at home", and not in a good way.
As a visitor to several countries I must stand out enough that often I am spoken to (without me speaking first) in English. Especially in a place like Amsterdam.
On the other hand, I remember walking down a main street in Taipei (after being there for about a month and a half), noticing some oddness about a person 2 blocks away. On closer inspection, the person was Western European descended. It was instructive to note that the oddness was "that person looks a lot like me".
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I have met a few people of various ethnicities (e.g. Indian, Lebanese) that were first generation US and perfectly bilingual in english and their parent's native language. However, they said that they were instantly picked out as american while visiting the other country simply by the way they carried themselves (even in traditional attire). I can't think of a time I have thought the reverse when meeting a person here in the US (perfect accent, but obviously foreign). Am I just unaware?
No, you are not unaware. It's just that the reverse never very very rarely happens. That is to say, not many Americans emigrate and try and assimilate culturally to their new country. American missionaries may go and may send their kids back to the USA, but I wouldn't say that they assimilate culturally--they're bringing their culture with them.
When I was younger and traveled the world, I noticed that there was only one country where Americans emigrated to in any sort of large numbers; Israel.
Americans are very "loose" and lax with their bodies, as a whole. We slouch, we drape our arms over things, take up space in ways that are very noticeable to people in other countries who have a more rigid carriage. The distinction between public and private space in the US is very permeable, whereas in many other cultures it's not, so what we might consider just sitting (e.g. on public transport) looks to someone in another culture as "making ourselves at home", and not in a good way.
As a visitor to several countries I must stand out enough that often I am spoken to (without me speaking first) in English. Especially in a place like Amsterdam.
On the other hand, I remember walking down a main street in Taipei (after being there for about a month and a half), noticing some oddness about a person 2 blocks away. On closer inspection, the person was Western European descended. It was instructive to note that the oddness was "that person looks a lot like me".
When I travel alone in Europe, I am not immediately recognized as American before I speak (and in France, not even after I speak). When I travel in Europe with my husband, I/we are often immediately greeted in English, so clearly recognized as American. Interestingly, this happens to me when I travel with my husband there, even if I have gone out alone in search of something. This tells me that having another one "of my people" with me affects my bearing and makes me adopt a more American way of conducting myself, even if I don't mean to do it.
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Minds are blown when I try to explain how I am a white latina. Not hispanic, because my country is not a spanish speaking one. I had someone ask if that meant that I was pacific islander.
It always amuses me to think how people's minds would blow if a white person born in Africa got dual American-African citizenship--a white African American.
I worked with a very nice woman who was from South Africa. She was white. Green card in California. And very willing to answer (intelligent) questions about her birthplace. I appreciated it.
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On any number of trips to Germany, I am almost universally thought to be German. I have a German first and last name, I am of German descent (second generation), and do not speak German. I only know enough phrases to say "I'm sorry, I don't speak German, do you speak English?"
Other countries peg me as American immediately.
In Japan, actions like blowing your nose and crossing your legs is a big giveaway. Also, I felt like a lumbering oaf in the way I walked compared to Japanese women -- most had very small strides compared to what I think is a normal American walk. (10 years ago, so maybe different now?)
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My last name is norther German/Dutch and I have spent much time there for work and almost universally the Dutch pronounced it 'in English'. I am not sure if this is active on there part or they just read my last name as any other English word and it sorts it self out. Strangely I get way more trouble in the US with people trying to say or spell my name despite it being 10000% English phonetic.
It's not their level of reading and speaking in English that's the problem (although in my experience Dutch have better English skills than Germans/Austrians/Americans/Brits), but insistence that their way is the only correct way and discounting what immigrants say.
A few months ago at the pharmacy, after I asked if my insurance covers a certain medication: "Did you come to this country because you thought everything here is free?"
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As a visitor to several countries I must stand out enough that often I am spoken to (without me speaking first) in English. Especially in a place like Amsterdam.
This is a very common thing in places where there are lots of tourists. I sometimes visit a town in the Netherlands where many Germans visit and get spoken to in German, although I look Dutch. It's just their habit. Same with English in Amsterdam.
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Huh, all this reminds me of last year when I went to Avignon with my husband and our friend. I speak decent French, husband speaks a little French, friend speaks no French... But all of is true regardless of who spoke first. When I went out alone, I could have whole conversations in French with shop assistants and suchlike. When I went out with my husband, if we walked into a cafe they'd usually greet us in both French and English and see what we replied in. When we were out with our friend, English and the tourist menu every time.
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I've always suspected that older transplants keep their accents because everyone is too polite to correct an adult, but the younger the person is the more likely people will help him learn his new language correctly. Plus, younger people accept the corrections more easily.
Yes this! The only people that correct my Spanish anymore are my Mexican nieces. They laugh at me and make fun of me, but I'm so glad because then I can ask, ok what's the right way to say it?
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I have met a few people of various ethnicities (e.g. Indian, Lebanese) that were first generation US and perfectly bilingual in english and their parent's native language. However, they said that they were instantly picked out as american while visiting the other country simply by the way they carried themselves (even in traditional attire). I can't think of a time I have thought the reverse when meeting a person here in the US (perfect accent, but obviously foreign). Am I just unaware?
No, you are not unaware. It's just that the reverse never very very rarely happens. That is to say, not many Americans emigrate and try and assimilate culturally to their new country. American missionaries may go and may send their kids back to the USA, but I wouldn't say that they assimilate culturally--they're bringing their culture with them.
When I was younger and traveled the world, I noticed that there was only one country where Americans emigrated to in any sort of large numbers; Israel.
Americans are very "loose" and lax with their bodies, as a whole. We slouch, we drape our arms over things, take up space in ways that are very noticeable to people in other countries who have a more rigid carriage. The distinction between public and private space in the US is very permeable, whereas in many other cultures it's not, so what we might consider just sitting (e.g. on public transport) looks to someone in another culture as "making ourselves at home", and not in a good way.
Very well said. I live in Mexico and Mexicans dress up in public more. More polite with their voices, their language, and their bodies when in the public space. Public speech is painfully polite "If you would be so kind as to .... [i wanted to make up something to demonstrate my point but I'm failing, so.]"
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I've always suspected that older transplants keep their accents because everyone is too polite to correct an adult, but the younger the person is the more likely people will help him learn his new language correctly. Plus, younger people accept the corrections more easily.
Yes this! The only people that correct my Spanish anymore are my Mexican nieces. They laugh at me and make fun of me, but I'm so glad because then I can ask, ok what's the right way to say it?
Indeed, people are way to polite to adults, but they are not doing them a favor. I have had a few good colleagues during the years who have corrected my mistakes in Norwegian, but the rest doesn't bother. Maybe they think it is normal that an immigrant has an accent and therefore don't correct it. I usually don't correct my American colleague when he makes mistakes. I do however correct my DH who speaks Norwegian almost like a native, but pronounces one sound wrongly, the y.
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Good one MrDelane! That reminds me of my experience:
"Why do you pronounce your name like that?"
The good: only three times in a year. The bad: this happened with the people I need to interact with most.
[I do not spell my name in an exotic way like Jayceson or Shan d'leer, and English speakers have no problem pronouncing it. German speakers however pronounce some consonants and vowels differently and some assume that although they're speaking English, and reading someone else's name in English, the name is "spelled wrong". Same thing happens to my coworker - she has a "ei" in her name which is pronounced /eɪ/ (as in pain), but our advisor pronounces it /aɪ/ (as in rice). After she corrected him several times, he said she should "write it correctly" if she wants it pronounced that way. I've been told on one occasion that I'm the one pronouncing my name wrong, and I should really stop because it confuses them]
This happens to me too! It drives me crazy. My name contains a syllable that can be pronounced in two ways (like read could sound like reed or red). I'm not bothered when people guess wrong; but when they tell me that I'M saying MY NAME wrong or even correct me after I've said it - not cool folks.
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Good one MrDelane! That reminds me of my experience:
"Why do you pronounce your name like that?"
The good: only three times in a year. The bad: this happened with the people I need to interact with most.
[I do not spell my name in an exotic way like Jayceson or Shan d'leer, and English speakers have no problem pronouncing it. German speakers however pronounce some consonants and vowels differently and some assume that although they're speaking English, and reading someone else's name in English, the name is "spelled wrong". Same thing happens to my coworker - she has a "ei" in her name which is pronounced /eɪ/ (as in pain), but our advisor pronounces it /aɪ/ (as in rice). After she corrected him several times, he said she should "write it correctly" if she wants it pronounced that way. I've been told on one occasion that I'm the one pronouncing my name wrong, and I should really stop because it confuses them]
This happens to me too! It drives me crazy. My name contains a syllable that can be pronounced in two ways (like read could sound like reed or red). I'm not bothered when people guess wrong; but when they tell me that I'M saying MY NAME wrong or even correct me after I've said it - not cool folks.
Yea I just don't get it. If I pronounce a name wrong I apologize and ask how to pronounce it correctly to avoid future mistakes. May I ask where this insistence happens?
I remembered another coworker example - someone's name ends with dj as in budge, but people who have known him for years will pronounce it "dee". AFAIK no German words even end with dj, much less pronounced that way! But their guess is more valid than anything he has to say, even though he immigrated many years ago.
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May I ask where this insistence happens?
School, work, checking into hotels, calling the tax office.
There was one teacher at school who had a long, unfamiliar Polish surname. We spent the first lesson learning how to spell it and when one student got it wrong a year later she was screamed at in front of the class until she cried. Teacher kept going on about how disrespecting the name was disrespecting the person. The main person who would correct my name, this asshair teacher.
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I actually meant which country/region, but I assume from your answer that this is in the UK?
That teacher sounds brutal... Thankfully neither my teachers nor students ever had trouble with my name, but perhaps I should emulate her response as it seems to leave a lasting impression ;)
Many 2-3+ generation Americans with Polish surnames pronounce an anglicized version (Brzezinski -> Bur-zuh instead of Bzhuh) while some more recent immigrants prefer the Polish pronunciation. Can be tricky to guess and mistakes are allowed, but you can't tell people their names are wrong.
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May I ask where this insistence happens?
School, work, checking into hotels, calling the tax office.
There was one teacher at school who had a long, unfamiliar Polish surname. We spent the first lesson learning how to spell it and when one student got it wrong a year later she was screamed at in front of the class until she cried. Teacher kept going on about how disrespecting the name was disrespecting the person. The main person who would correct my name, this asshair teacher.
I had to return a call to a potential client in Texas, whom I had never met. (I am from Canada). The last name was Jacques. The receptionist had no idea who I was asking for, and I had no idea who she was suggesting when I told her the title of the person I wanted. Why? She (and likely he) pronounced it "Jack-Wee" not "Jawk" (forgive the phonetic spelling, that looks horrible, I must spell in french, too). Boy did I want to tell her she said the name wrong -- but I just barely didn't.
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I've always suspected that older transplants keep their accents because everyone is too polite to correct an adult, but the younger the person is the more likely people will help him learn his new language correctly. Plus, younger people accept the corrections more easily.
Yes this! The only people that correct my Spanish anymore are my Mexican nieces. They laugh at me and make fun of me, but I'm so glad because then I can ask, ok what's the right way to say it?
Indeed, people are way to polite to adults, but they are not doing them a favor. I have had a few good colleagues during the years who have corrected my mistakes in Norwegian, but the rest doesn't bother. Maybe they think it is normal that an immigrant has an accent and therefore don't correct it. I usually don't correct my American colleague when he makes mistakes. I do however correct my DH who speaks Norwegian almost like a native, but pronounces one sound wrongly, the y.
It's really hard to change one's "accent" in another language not learned as a child.
For example, try as we might, my mother cannot pronounce "beach" or "sheet" without offending someone. So she has found replacement words for all of these. "Beach" becomes "let's go to the ocean", "sheet" becomes "blanket".
I know an older gentleman that came to the US during his high school years. He speaks fluent English, but still with a Spanish accent. He's really into photography and struggles with the word "focus". I'll let you figure out what that sounds like when he says that...not good! Unfortunately we have not found a replacement word for focus in photography for him to use.
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Not an immigrant, but my Asian spouse, born and raised in Hawaii, always gets asked if she's Hawaiian. Not exactly sure what they're thinking, as she doesn't look remotely Hawaiian and where you're born has no bearing on your ethnicity. In general, I see people use the term "Hawaiian," and it's hard to tell if they realize it's an ethnicity or if they're try to use the term like "Californian." Of course she's gotten some semi-serious questions about if she takes a canoe around, lives in a hut, etc.
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I actually meant which country/region, but I assume from your answer that this is in the UK?
That teacher sounds brutal... Thankfully neither my teachers nor students ever had trouble with my name, but perhaps I should emulate her response as it seems to leave a lasting impression ;)
Many 2-3+ generation Americans with Polish surnames pronounce an anglicized version (Brzezinski -> Bur-zuh instead of Bzhuh) while some more recent immigrants prefer the Polish pronunciation. Can be tricky to guess and mistakes are allowed, but you can't tell people their names are wrong.
In the UK, the name comes from Ireland but uses English sounds (rather than Gaelic). The name was Anglicised a few centuries ago (the words were translated rather than the sound changing).
Yes, in the same way that Sara can sound like Sarah or rhyming with Zara; there is no problem with someone making a mistake, but it isn't my mistake about my name.
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For example, try as we might, my mother cannot pronounce "beach" or "sheet" without offending someone. So she has found replacement words for all of these. "Beach" becomes "let's go to the ocean", "sheet" becomes "blanket".
Friend of a friend, same thing with Count. Particularly amusing when being used as a title.
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This thread has got me thinking about something and it's kind of a weird question but I hope you'll understand what I'm getting at:
How come some people never ever lose their accent in their second language? Like, imagine you spoke French from 0-18 then moved to England and only ever spoke English and you were now 65 and still had a French accent. I just can't imagine how you wouldn't ever lose the accent.
Even if I moved to Wales I'd probably end up picking up a slight accent after living there for a few decades. If I moved to Poland and had to learn Polish from scratch and never ever spoke English again, I can't imagine still having accented Polish after forty years.
Is it something physiological? Is it different depending on the age when you learnt your second language? Are some people just accent-deaf?
I speak English with slight Russian accent. Moved here when I was 14. Been in US for almost 30 years now. My accent is not going anywhere. Though it's not strong, I am always asked 'where I"m from and people are never satisfied that I'm from NY. They are much happier when they find out that I was born in Ukraine.
However, that starts the whole new set of questions: no I don't speak Ukrainian, only Russian; yes I can read and write (barely) in Russian but my written grammar sucks; no I'm neither Russian nor Ukrainian; no my nationality wasn't Russian or Ukrainian even when I lived there; yes I am US citizen; no I don't have Russian or Ukrainian citizenship, and the list goes on and on and on - bears in the streets, vodka, balaika, Putin, why do I get cold in the winder when I'm from Russia and it's always freezing there, etc etc etc.
My sister on the other hand was 9 when we moved here and she has no accent. My friend moved here also at age 14 same time as I did and to this day she has very strong Russian accent to the point that at times her English 'sounds' bad.
When I was in Paris last summer I ran into a Georgian woman (country, not state) who moved to Paris about a year earlier. She spoke Georgian, Russian, and French. We started speaking in Russian and she said I speak Russian with English accent. She's probably correct.
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I speak Norwegian with a Dutch accent. My Dutch husband speaks Norwegian without an accent. Differences between us:
I went to a Norwegian course in the Netherlands for three years, with a Dutch teacher. I could read and speak it when we emigrated there. I have a low voice and people often don't understand me well. Therefore I articulate more, something Norwegians don't do.
My DH could not speak Norwegian when we emigrated. He went to a course in Norway with a Norwegian teacher and worked in a Norwegian company at the same time. When he isn't understood, he just mumbles a bit. That sounds much more Norwegian than articulating.