Author Topic: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.  (Read 31633 times)

englyn

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2013, 09:37:40 PM »
Haha, just found something (kind of) relevant:
http://www.nwedible.com/2012/08/tragedy-healthy-eater.html

arebelspy

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2013, 09:41:40 PM »
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
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Paul der Krake

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2013, 04:48:56 AM »
Haha, just found something (kind of) relevant:
http://www.nwedible.com/2012/08/tragedy-healthy-eater.html
This is why I hate using the internet when I know nothing about a subject and can't tell what is important and what isn't. Whatever you were looking to fix, it only takes a few clicks to convince you that you need to change absolutely everything or you, your children, and everyone you love, are heading straight for the abyss.

In other news, don't ever go to webmd.com.

brighteye

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2013, 06:14:32 AM »
Overall, I'd say you are already eating pretty healthy. The most important points in my opinion
- Eat real food (avoid processed food). You're already doing quite good here.
- No (little) sugar. Again, sounds like you do this already.
- choose healthy fats (good: animal fats, coconut oil, olive oil, butter. Bad: margarine, seed oils)
My suggestions: Maybe eat more protein (eggs are healthy and not expensive)
And: Don't eat breakfast if you are not hungry. It seems that your appetite/hunger signaling works perfectly fine, so no need to change something in this regard.

I second http://www.marksdailyapple.com and Michael Pollan's books. Also I like "The Protein Power Lifeplan" by Dr. Michael and Dr. Mary Dan Eades.
Although he stopped blogging, I still love "Archevore" by Kurt Harris MD. Start here: http://www.archevore.com/get-started/ or his manifesto: http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/3/30/paleo-20-a-diet-manifesto.html

Erica/NWEdible

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nktokyo

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2013, 06:43:55 PM »
If you're interested in some underlying knowledge about all things food, then Eat, Drink and Be Healthy is worth a read. It's a older book, will only take a few days to read and you should be able to get it into your library. It also comes with a bunch of recipes to try.

My biggest take away was there are really easy changes you can make that yield big results. The biggest for me was to reduce my carb intake (I replaced with a little more meat and a lot more vegetables) and go from "white and simple" to "brown and complex" - less potatoes, white rice, pasta and bread to more sweet potatoes, whole durum pasta and brown rice. In terms of "hard to do" it meant cook an extra eggplant and switch to less of a different color rice. The change in my energy levels was huge. I also switched to higher energy breakfasts - avocado, bacon, eggs etc.

My friend is a trained dietician and she has a bit of a chuckle at Paleo, especially the anti-legume stance. As she explains it.... people cut out soft drinks, beer, cheese, processed food, all sorts of artificial stuff, fast food, fluffy white processed carbs, snacks and just about everything bad. Then they halve their portions of what they do eat and when they lose weight, they high-five each other and exclaim "yeah! No carbs!"

A side of rice or some pasta (especially "brown carbs") in a properly portioned meal when you're also taking in meat or fish and a decent amount of vegetables is not going to make you fat. Ever. Nor are you taking in toxic poison if you eat some beans. Coke is bad for you. Beans are beans. Just cook the damn things and - as with anything - eat in moderation.

arebelspy

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2013, 08:49:38 PM »
The only family issues I am aware of is obesity and type II diabetes, ditto the wife, but neither of us seem at much risk for that.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
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arebelspy

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2013, 09:45:41 PM »
Awesome, thanks for the tips Mom!
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
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oldladystache

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2013, 09:03:54 PM »
I've given it a lot of thought. I understand in Asia generations have survived on rice and little else. In Alaska they survived for generations on little more than blubber. Others have survived on potatoes and little else. Or fish.

That tells me the typical American diet, no matter how bad it seems, is really pretty good.

And I've been around long enough to see eggs go from good to bad and back to good. And coffee has done the same. As has butter.

When I was growing up we worried about the coming ice age.

Bottom line, don't believe everything the experts tell you. In 20 years they'll probably tell you the opposite.

I eat what I want, when I want.

arebelspy

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2013, 10:39:32 PM »
I've given it a lot of thought. I understand in Asia generations have survived on rice and little else. In Alaska they survived for generations on little more than blubber. Others have survived on potatoes and little else. Or fish.

That tells me the typical American diet, no matter how bad it seems, is really pretty good.

I'm about halfway through In Defense of Food, and in it he says almost the same thing as your first paragraph (seafood works, almost all meat, blood milk diet works, plants, etc.) with the opposite conclusion as you drew: basically all those work, but the Western Diet has some serious problems leading to type II diabetes, heart issues, cancer, etc.

Humans can survive on a lot of things, but our Western Diet is apparently pretty bad.

Though I think he'd agree with your assessment that they may tell you something different in twenty years (and thus would conclude to worry less about nutrients, more about whole foods).  But like I said, I'm only halfway through.  I'm waiting for the shocking twist at the end (McDonalds healthiest of all?)
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

jpo

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2013, 06:44:29 AM »
Pretty much every meal has a main entree component (chicken usually), a side dish (rice or potato), and vegetables.

So I figured I'd start my search with the Paleo diet, cause I know MMM sort of does it, and I know some people here are hot on it, and I know nothing, so I figured it's a place to start.
As you suspected, Paleo isn't all it's cracked up to be: http://www.nsca.com/uploadedFiles/NSCA/Inactive_Content/Program_Books/PTC_2013_Program_Book/Aragon.pdf

If I was you I would try to do better reading ingredients labels. Try to buy things without ingredients that seem like they don't really belong in that food, i.e. guar gum in ice cream, corn syrup, etc. Doing this will help you cut out the crappy TV dinners and pasta roni. If you like to eat those things, find a way to make it yourself using real ingredients.

For your wife's cereal habit, has she tried rolled oats with fruit instead of buying premade cereal?

I'm a fan of Mark Bittman's How To Cook Everything, saw it recommended somewhere else on the forums and checked it out at my library. Simple recipes and simple ingredients, and super tasty.

GuitarStv

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2013, 07:40:54 AM »
I don't know about your wife, but you are absolutely not healthy.  112-115 lbs at a height of 6ft is not a healthy weight.  Because so few people in western society follow proper eating habits, people have a badly skewed version of 'healthy'.  We tend to equate 'not fat' with 'healthy'.  You're not obese (the more common unhealthy condition), but make no mistake . . . your body is not well right now.  You should put on weight . . . probably in the range of an extra 20 lbs at a minimum.  You don't need a new diet, you need to wrap your head around basic normal eating habits.

Some important facts to start out with:
- More calories in at same rate of exercise = more weight gain.
- Fast metabolism is a myth.  Without measuring everything that you eat on a given day, you are overestimating the number of calories you eat.
- Skinny people need exercise just as much as fat people.  You can be incredibly unhealthy without being fat.

If I were you I would start a journal and begin tracking everything that passes my mouth during a day (you don't need to do this for the rest of your life, but you should do it for a couple months so that you get a better idea of how many calories you are honestly consuming).  At your height, you should be eating at least 2000 calories a day if you live a completely sedentary life.  Any exercise that you do will add to that number.  If you only eat two meals a day, you will probably feel uncomfortable eating this much food.  Try snacking between your meals, having a late breakfast before lunch (since you don't like to eat in the morning), and having a snack before bed time.

At this point, the single most important thing you can do is eat more.  If you want to get really picky, your macro nutrient break down should follow roughly a 40-30-30 split of carbs-protein-fats.  These numbers aren't written in stone, they can swing slightly higher or lower depending on lifestyle factors.  If you want to follow a vegetarian diet for example, you want to slightly boost your protein intake and cut back on the carbs a bit (since vegetable protein isn't the greatest quality, it's not a bad idea to increase the amounts your body gets).  It may take a while to get your body used to normal, non-eating disorder habits.  If you care about your health at all though, you should spend some time doing this.

What foods should you be eating?  This isn't rocket science.  Good protein sources (includes chicken, fish, pork, turkey, eggs, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.), good carb sources (includes rice, pasta, potatoes, bread, quinoa, millet, oats, etc.), good fat sources (includes olive oil, nuts of all kinds, avocado, seeds).  Cook your own foods as much as possible so you can control the sodium levels, and the macro nutrient breakdown.

Now on to exercise.  Can you run three miles in twenty odd minutes?  Do 30 pushups?  10 pullups?  100 situps?  Carry a 100 lb sack somewhere?  A healthy person can do all of these things easily, one after the other.  If you can't, it's time to stop being unhealthy and involve some regular exercise in your day.  You want energy?  Your body is a machine that adapts to stresses placed upon it.  Right now that machine has been running on empty for many years.  Your heart is weak, your back is weak, your legs are weak, you have reduced bone density.  You need to stress your body regularly to force an adaptive change to become stronger.  Don't be ridiculous about it, but find some activity that you like to do, and start doing it.  Walk->jog->run, get some free weights and slowly increase your strength by following a program, do body weight exercises for higher reps.  At this point, what you do doesn't matter.  You need to do something.

The younger you are, the easier you body handles adversity.  You don't have to follow all of the above, but you're begging for health problems as you age if you keep on the way you've been going.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 07:44:49 AM by GuitarStv »

totoro

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2013, 08:30:03 AM »
You seem to be doing okay to me.  The real question is whether you could be doing better.

Good health is your biggest asset.  I suspect you will do well reading about it yourself and coming up with a plan if you decide it is worth a shot to improve your health. 

We've recently made some eating changes and will keep doing so.  It is fun to experiment and see what makes you feel even better even if nothing is currently "wrong".  What I have been doing with my health is like living paycheque to paycheque - not bad and maintaining - but not optimizing anything or looking to the future.

I would like to have optimal health because I do believe it is more important than hitting FI.  I've found getting started with changes is like pushing a big rock on a hill, hard to get rolling but once you do there is momentum. 

Even though you hate exercise maybe there is something that would work for you - like a set of those bands that you can use for work-outs at home - or a perfect pushup thingy.  Worth giving something a try if you believe it might improve your health.  You'll be able to tell if it works or not by how you feel.

Do it for the benefits.  This is what I tell myself when motivation is hard to come by.
 

cbr shadow

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2013, 08:33:46 AM »
Sorry if I missed this part, but are you saying you're 5' 10" tall and 115 lbs?

GuitarStv

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2013, 09:13:49 AM »
Sorry if I missed this part, but are you saying you're 5' 10" tall and 115 lbs?

No, he said 6' and 113-115.  That's a BMI of 15.3-15.6, which is dangerously underweight.  Increased risks of osteoperosis, heart problems, anemia, etc. etc.  That's indicative of a real problem.  Honestly, the OP should go see a doctor not an internet forum on this issue.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 09:22:57 AM by GuitarStv »

GuitarStv

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2013, 09:31:51 AM »
You seem to be doing okay to me.  The real question is whether you could be doing better.

Really?  The guy has a BMI that well into anorexic territory (http://simplycalculator.com/anorexic-BMI-calculator.aspx), and you're telling him he's doing fine?  Do you give a recovering alcoholic a couple drinks and then hand him some car keys too?  Jesus Christ.

arebelspy

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2013, 10:26:10 AM »
you are overestimating the number of calories you eat.

I don't think I am, as I've never once given an estimation of how many calories I eat.

you will probably feel uncomfortable eating this much food.

Yeah, I'm not sure I see a huge benefit to force feeding myself.  I'm onboard with tweaking or changing what I eat, I'm not onboard with forcing myself to eat more.

Can you run three miles in twenty odd minutes?  Do 30 pushups?  10 pullups?  100 situps?  Carry a 100 lb sack somewhere?

Yes, yes, no, maybe, maybe.  Either just barely yes or real close on all of them.

You want energy?

No.  You may have missed where I said I have plenty of energy.

You seem to be quite agitated over this.  Really, I'm okay.  People always worry when they hear my weight (mainly because I don't look emaciated, so they think I'm more like 135-140, and then hear my weight and think I'm sick or something), then spend time around me and see that I'm healthy.

Honestly, the OP should go see a doctor not an internet forum on this issue.

Well I've had maybe 3 or 4 physicals and overall comprehensive exams, including bloodwork, since I've been this "BMI" (aka since I've stopped growing taller and been this weight), the most recent maybe 2-3 years ago.  All have come back completely fine and healthy, multiple different doctors have had no concerns whatsoever about my health.  (That being said, that doesn't mean I couldn't be eating better, thus the point of this thread).

I'll be going again soon, and wouldn't expect anything to differ from the last few times this exact thing was done.
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totoro

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2013, 10:34:47 AM »
You seem to be doing okay to me.  The real question is whether you could be doing better.

Really?  The guy has a BMI that well into anorexic territory (http://simplycalculator.com/anorexic-BMI-calculator.aspx), and you're telling him he's doing fine?  Do you give a recovering alcoholic a couple drinks and then hand him some car keys too?  Jesus Christ.

He seems to be okay on his diet with both energy and composition of food intake - not sure about quantity because must be lower than average to maintain the underweight status. 

That said, while arebelspy might hit an anorexic BMI he does not demonstrate anorexic food avoidance in his posts.  Eating may not be optimal, and his BMI might need to be addressed, but I don't know that it can be equated to a serious addiction/disorder as you have indicated. 

I would suggest that a doctor might have a better opinion on the health status re. BMI.  I am not a doctor.  I agree that being underweight is correlated with higher risks.  Probably best to check that out - not in a forum - but in the real world with a doctor.

totoro

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2013, 10:38:08 AM »
Well, there you go.  Posted before reading your response arebelspy.

Here is the thing.  I do think you could optimize your health a bit.  Might be a very fun challenge for you given the way you have embraced strategic thinking on finances.... and lots of other things.  The ROI on the time/effort might be well worth it. 

It is experiential though, got to come up with a plan and do it before you will know.

DoubleDown

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2013, 11:02:07 AM »
I realize you've repeatedly said you don't particularly like exercising, but I'd really add to the chorus of those (like Erica) who have suggested weight lifting. I used to be skinny when I was young, and once I took up weight lifting, I added about 15% body weight within 6-8 weeks without changing my diet at all*. That weight addition was in all probability 100% muscle mass. You'll likely notice a dramatic improvement in how you feel, appearance, posture, and rapidly gained muscle weight.

30 minutes, 3 times a week of moderate to heavy weights will do it.

* If I ate any more of what I was already eating, it just happened. I made no conscious effort to change my eating habits like adding meals, drinking protein shakes, etc.

Good luck!

arebelspy

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2013, 11:02:24 AM »
I do think you could optimize your health a bit.  Might be a very fun challenge for you given the way you have embraced strategic thinking on finances.... and lots of other things.  The ROI on the time/effort might be well worth it. 

No doubt.  I absolutely should exercise more.

I haven't found an effective way to keep doing so beyond a few weeks.  Brute force willpower I guess.
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arebelspy

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2013, 11:04:08 AM »
I'd really add to the chorus of those (like Erica) who have suggested weight lifting.

Dang it, that's my least favorite type of exercise!

Noted, and I agree.  :)

We'll see if and when it happens.
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totoro

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2013, 11:11:03 AM »
My friend uses the big rubbery bands (proper weight-lifting type) over barbells.  He has tried all the stuff.  These are relatively inexpensive and very easy to store.  He also recommended the perfect pushup thingy from walmart as an excellent way to do pushups properly.  My friend has gained a lot of muscle using these things and doing situps.  No gym and no expensive equipment. We are going to try them out.

As far as motivation - maybe not just brute willpower?  Maybe you could see what has worked for you in the past?  For me, the health benefits that you feel work.  Doing it with my husband works too.  Structured times and routines also help for me.  Some people like tracking progress on a chart - I don't.

Caveat: not an expert, merely doing the steps rather imperfectly myself.

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2013, 11:20:10 AM »
Find exercise you like. There's got to be something! Bodyweight exercises, swimming, cycling, ultimate frisbee, soccer, basketball, hiking, mountain biking...

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2013, 11:21:03 AM »
Already many responses so I haven't read it all. It seems people mostly agree.  If things generally work for you, I wouldn't touch the macronutrient ratios (carbs, fat, protein).  I'd be wary of changing them because your metabolism might work differently with, say, fewer carbs. 

The one thing I'd do is try to choose "healthier" alternatives.  Where healthieer means whole fooda with senser nutrients.  Yams instead of potatoes, slow cooked oatmeal instead of cereal, etc. 

At one point I read so much "Internet nutrition" that I didn't know what was up or down.  It seemed like almost anything could be characterized as healthy or unhealthy and conflicting studies were always cited.  What I took away was: avoid anything with (artificial) transfat like the plague.  Avoid other artificial ingredients if possible (meats with nitrates, fresh juice instead of soda, etc.). Eat your veggies. 

As others have said, watch yourself over the years.  You may very well want to change your macronutrient mix in 15 years.  Or you may decide you want to improve sports performance or something which has different considerations.

Russ

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2013, 11:23:00 AM »
No doubt.  I absolutely should exercise more.

I haven't found an effective way to keep doing so beyond a few weeks.  Brute force willpower I guess.

kinda OT, but I've been reading Joshua Spodek's blog (I think he comes around here every so often) from front to back and found his series on willpower to be very informative. He presents willpower as a tool to get you over a hump of initial reluctance on the way to doing something you think will eventually bring you a feeling of enjoyment or reward. Based on that, if you don't ever get reward from the exercises you've been doing, there's not much you can do to brute-force your way into it for more than a few weeks, as you've done. You have to either find something new that's rewarding about the activity you want to enjoy (e.g. if you don't like running for exercise, maybe you'll like running for the sense of exploration it can give you), or find a different activity altogether.

Unsolicited advice of course so take it or leave it, but I've found it has helped me.

totoro

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2013, 11:29:57 AM »
No doubt.  I absolutely should exercise more.

I haven't found an effective way to keep doing so beyond a few weeks.  Brute force willpower I guess.

kinda OT, but I've been reading Joshua Spodek's blog (I think he comes around here every so often) from front to back and found his series on willpower to be very informative. He presents . Based on that, if you don't ever get reward from the exercises you've been doing, there's not much you can do to brute-force your way into it for more than a few weeks, as you've done. You have to either find something new that's rewarding about the activity you want to enjoy (e.g. if you don't like running for exercise, maybe you'll like running for the sense of exploration it can give you), or find a different activity altogether.

Unsolicited advice of course so take it or leave it, but I've found it has helped me.

Thanks for this reference - I'm going to read this.

I agree with that statement.  In my experience willpower is "a tool to get you over a hump of initial reluctance on the way to doing something you think will eventually bring you a feeling of enjoyment or reward". 

Once you feel a sense of reward, however small, habit is pretty good for keeping things going too in my experience. 

Of course, the easiest way is necessity.  Ie. you have to ride your bike to get somewhere or you are renovating and need to lift stuff - or your job is physical. 

I often frame changes as interesting research projects and experiments.  I'm into that - always have been.

GuitarStv

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2013, 11:39:22 AM »
you are overestimating the number of calories you eat.

I don't think I am, as I've never once given an estimation of how many calories I eat.

Even working out in high school several times per week and drinking 3000 calorie shakes and such wouldn't let me put on a pound.

The number of calories you need in a day to maintain your weight is about 1800.  If you're exercising a hell of a lot, you might burn an additional 1000 calories in a day.  Assuming you only drank a single 3000 calorie shake during the day and ate nothing else, you would still have a net surplus of calories and put on weight.  You didn't, hence my comment.


you will probably feel uncomfortable eating this much food.

Yeah, I'm not sure I see a huge benefit to force feeding myself.  I'm onboard with tweaking or changing what I eat, I'm not onboard with forcing myself to eat more.

When you've developed poor eating habits, it can be tough to break them.  The issue isn't really what you're eating, it really comes down to quantity.  The benefit of course, would be that your currently elevated risk for a number of health conditions would be reduced (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underweight#Problems).


Can you run three miles in twenty odd minutes?  Do 30 pushups?  10 pullups?  100 situps?  Carry a 100 lb sack somewhere?

Yes, yes, no, maybe, maybe.  Either just barely yes or real close on all of them.

Good!  If you can perform all of these actions one after the other, then you're quite strong!  It's just quite unusual for someone with a BMI classified in the starvation range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index#United_States) or what the WHO calls 'severe thinness' (http://apps.who.int/bmi/index.jsp?introPage=intro_3.html) to be physically robust.

You want energy?

No.  You may have missed where I said I have plenty of energy.

You seem to be quite agitated over this.  Really, I'm okay.  People always worry when they hear my weight (mainly because I don't look emaciated, so they think I'm more like 135-140, and then hear my weight and think I'm sick or something), then spend time around me and see that I'm healthy.

I did misread the section where you said you have plenty of energy.  My mistake.  I have known people who were hospitalized for eating disorders with BMI higher than what you've indicated you have . . . which is the cause for my concern.  They felt that they were just fine too.

Honestly, the OP should go see a doctor not an internet forum on this issue.

Well I've had maybe 3 or 4 physicals and overall comprehensive exams, including bloodwork, since I've been this "BMI" (aka since I've stopped growing taller and been this weight), the most recent maybe 2-3 years ago.  All have come back completely fine and healthy, multiple different doctors have had no concerns whatsoever about my health.  (That being said, that doesn't mean I couldn't be eating better, thus the point of this thread).

I'll be going again soon, and wouldn't expect anything to differ from the last few times this exact thing was done.

If you're getting regular checkups to manage your condition, then good.  Children and teens aren't finished developing, and often measure lower body weight than adults.  I'm assuming that you're an adult now, though?  I find it hard to believe that the doctors doing your checkup would not even mention your extremely low weight.  Is it possible that your scale is wrong, and you're actually closer to a healthier weight of around 130 lbs?  That would make more sense based on what you're telling me. . .
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 11:58:08 AM by GuitarStv »

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2013, 11:53:41 AM »
Could we quit fixating on this BMI thing? If you think he's too skinny, say so, but BMI has never been anything but a shitty-as-hell tool to make very rough, broad statements for statistical exercises like underwriting.

Russ

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2013, 11:58:45 AM »
BMI has never been anything but a shitty-as-hell tool to make very rough, broad statements for statistical exercises like underwriting.

I vote for full-body pics

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #80 on: July 18, 2013, 12:04:40 PM »
Could we quit fixating on this BMI thing? If you think he's too skinny, say so, but BMI has never been anything but a shitty-as-hell tool to make very rough, broad statements for statistical exercises like underwriting.

OK.  I think he's at a dangerous weight.  If he was badly hurt/sick, ended up in the hospital and lost some weight from his already emaciated condition, it would be very bad.

Don't get me wrong, BMI is a shitty tool for measuring general health.  It will report someone who's athletic and heavily muscled as being a fatass.  It doesn't lie on the low end of the scale though.  I'd be pretty interested to read the name of the doctor who thinks a 6 ft tall man who is 115lbs or under is healthy.  To give you some context . . . my wife is 5'4", asian, and small boned.  She weighs between 100 - 110 lbs and the doctors typically tell her that she should eat more when she gets a checkup.  This guy is eight inches taller than her, and 5 lbs heavier.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 12:07:10 PM by GuitarStv »

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #81 on: July 18, 2013, 12:16:43 PM »
Find exercise you like. There's got to be something! Bodyweight exercises, swimming, cycling, ultimate frisbee, soccer, basketball, hiking, mountain biking...

Hiking is probably closest, but my wife hates hiking, and it also isn't something I can do quite frequently (and have to drive to do so).

No doubt.  I absolutely should exercise more.

I haven't found an effective way to keep doing so beyond a few weeks.  Brute force willpower I guess.

kinda OT, but I've been reading Joshua Spodek's blog (I think he comes around here every so often) from front to back and found his series on willpower to be very informative. He presents willpower as a tool to get you over a hump of initial reluctance on the way to doing something you think will eventually bring you a feeling of enjoyment or reward. Based on that, if you don't ever get reward from the exercises you've been doing, there's not much you can do to brute-force your way into it for more than a few weeks, as you've done. You have to either find something new that's rewarding about the activity you want to enjoy (e.g. if you don't like running for exercise, maybe you'll like running for the sense of exploration it can give you), or find a different activity altogether.

Unsolicited advice of course so take it or leave it, but I've found it has helped me.

I agree with a lot of that.  Unfortunately I've never felt the "reward" from exercising, even after weeks (or, in a few cases in the past, months).


you are overestimating the number of calories you eat.

I don't think I am, as I've never once given an estimation of how many calories I eat.

Even working out in high school several times per week and drinking 3000 calorie shakes and such wouldn't let me put on a pound.

The number of calories you need in a day to maintain your weight is about 1800.  If you're exercising a hell of a lot, you might burn an additional 1000 calories in a day.  Assuming you only drank a single 3000 calorie shake during the day and ate nothing else, you would still have a net surplus of calories and put on weight.  You didn't, hence my comment.

I know I'm not underestimating it in that case, as I actually drank those shakes.  However, I've said nothing about the number of calories I eat (present tense), and I know it is low, as I eat until I'm full, and I fill quickly.


Can you run three miles in twenty odd minutes?  Do 30 pushups?  10 pullups?  100 situps?  Carry a 100 lb sack somewhere?

Yes, yes, no, maybe, maybe.  Either just barely yes or real close on all of them.

Good!  If you can perform all of these actions one after the other, then you're quite strong!  It's just quite unusual for someone with a BMI classified in the starvation range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index#United_States) or what the WHO calls 'severe thinness' (http://apps.who.int/bmi/index.jsp?introPage=intro_3.html) to be physically robust.

Not one after the other on the overlapping ones.  Pushups after running? Sure.  Pullups after pushups, or carrying a 100lb bag (some unspecified distance)?  No.

If you're getting regular checkups to manage your condition, then good.  Children and teens aren't finished developing, and often measure lower body weight than adults.  I'm assuming that you're an adult now, though?  I find it hard to believe that the doctors doing your checkup would not even mention your extremely low weight.  Is it possible that your scale is wrong, and you're actually closer to a healthier weight of around 130 lbs?  That would make more sense based on what you're telling me. . .

I'm not getting "regular checkups to manage [my] condition" - I don't have a condition. I get checkups on occasion, which have all indicated that I'm perfectly healthy.  My scale is fine.

Quote
I'd be pretty interested to read the name of the doctor who thinks a 6 ft tall man who is 115lbs or under is healthy.

As far as wanting to hear doctors names, like I said, it has been multiple doctors (as I've moved from WA, to CA, to NV) over multiple years, none of whom were concerned in the slightest.

/shrug

Donno what to tell you.
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GuitarStv

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #82 on: July 18, 2013, 12:21:58 PM »
OK.  It's your life, your choice.

I will bow out of this conversation.

Kriegsspiel

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #83 on: July 18, 2013, 04:18:39 PM »
I'm with Russ, SHOW US YOUR NIPS!!!! RAAWWWWW *grabs pitchfork*

« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 04:20:19 PM by Kriegsspiel »

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #84 on: July 18, 2013, 08:36:47 PM »
I do think you could optimize your health a bit.  Might be a very fun challenge for you given the way you have embraced strategic thinking on finances.... and lots of other things.  The ROI on the time/effort might be well worth it. 

No doubt.  I absolutely should exercise more.

I haven't found an effective way to keep doing so beyond a few weeks.  Brute force willpower I guess.

I'm reading "the power of habit" right now. It has some fascinating things to say on the subject.

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #85 on: July 18, 2013, 09:26:41 PM »
Wut... how did we start talking about being underweight?  Unless he is showing signs of malnutrition (hair falling out, low energy, etc.) or has some kind of eating disorder, there's nothing wrong with low weight.

arebelspy

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #86 on: July 18, 2013, 10:25:09 PM »
Wut... how did we start talking about being underweight?  Unless he is showing signs of malnutrition (hair falling out, low energy, etc.) or has some kind of eating disorder, there's nothing wrong with low weight.

Because I'm tall and thin, I fall outside the normal parameters.  I'm an outlier, but I don't think an unhealthy one.

I'm reading "the power of habit" right now. It has some fascinating things to say on the subject.

Thanks.  That's on my guilty reading list.
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dragoncar

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #87 on: July 18, 2013, 11:23:19 PM »
Wut... how did we start talking about being underweight?  Unless he is showing signs of malnutrition (hair falling out, low energy, etc.) or has some kind of eating disorder, there's nothing wrong with low weight.

Because I'm tall and thin, I fall outside the normal parameters.  I'm an outlier, but I don't think an unhealthy one.

Reminds me of advice on some (baby oriented?) forum where people got worried that a frugal person needed to go see a psychologist to treat their crippling spending disorder.

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #88 on: July 18, 2013, 11:28:49 PM »
I think it's a fair question, it's one I'm used to.  Most people have it initially, but fears wear off after they see that I'm physically able and seemingly healthy.  I'll have another doctor's visit soon to confirm, but everything seems fine.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
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Paul der Krake

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #89 on: July 20, 2013, 03:25:47 AM »
Grant is right on the money when he says you need to find a type of exercise you like. It's a widely held belief that swimming is one of the best types of exercise out there and 90% of the first world health-related problems would be annihilated if everyone swam for one hour three times a week, but people just don't work like that. It is much easier to motivate oneself to play with friends and chase a ball around (tennis, football, you name it) than stare at the bottom of the pool on your own.

Anything that keeps you engaged regularly will yield great results.

nktokyo

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2013, 03:34:07 AM »
I'm in your boat with the exercise thing, but I have had success this site http://www.12minuteathlete.com/

It's 12 minutes... if I don't do it I know I'm an idiot because there's no way I can rationalize NOT exercising because of other commitments when it takes longer to make and drink a coffee. It takes longer than 12 minutes for some of my responses on these forums :P

golden1

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #91 on: July 20, 2013, 04:22:52 AM »
Congrats on wanting to eat healthier!  I haven't read "In defense of food" but "The Omnivore's dilemma" is a really interesting read. 

I do some research on the subject of food and fitness, and it seems that lately there are two general "trends" in what people think are healthy diets that are opposed to one another: "Vegan" or "Primal/Paleo".  There are lots of differences but the commonalities in both are vegetables, vegetables, vegetables as well as a general avoidance of refined sugar.  It sounds like you are already doing that so well done!

My only concern is your weight.  It seems incredibly low and I have to wonder if you would feel a bit better with a bit more muscle mass.  That would involve eating more protein and lifting.  It may be worth a try. I have a good compound exercise dumbbell routine that only takes about 20-25 minutes that I do twice a week.  I find that having a bit of muscle on my frame helps my back and posture, which I know you said you have issues with.  I have a sore shoulder, but when I am weight training it goes away.

FYI, people who are thinner generally have slower metabolisms, not faster.  It is common health myth that has been debunked.



Daleth

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #92 on: July 20, 2013, 04:13:44 PM »
One important thing is to make sure you don't go too far afield from what you are used to too right away. If I were you, I would slowly try to incorporate healthy/healthier things in with what you are already eating. Not sure how you feel about organic, but I think one thing you could do is transition over to organic/hormone free meat. Same with eggs and dairy. Try to find local sources for your food if possible. It may be more expensive, but that could help you reduce the amount of meat you are eating.

+1 on that. Your normal diet sounds a little heavy on bleached grains, but otherwise nothing jumps out at me as a definite bad idea, and I'm a total health nut. So my version of Hoodedfalcon's advice is:
  • Don't make huge changes to the actual stuff you eat (e.g., sandwiches, pizza); just upgrade their quality (e.g., whole grain bread, organic fruit spread (no added sugar) instead of normal jam, sometimes make the pizza yourselves rather than getting it out of a box, etc.). It's pointless to do a diet that you won't stick with, and it's a lot easier to stick with "continue normal food habits except with higher-quality versions of those foods."


  • Go organic as much as possible. If your budget requires you to be selective about what to go organic on, think about it rationally: do you eat the skin or is the skin super thin (e.g., apple, tomato)? Or is there no skin (e.g., grains)? If so, get it organic; if not (e.g., banana, avocado...), that's where you can most safely dispense with it being organic. Meat, dairy and eggs should also be organic as much as possible, because animals are at the top of the food chain so they contain all the pesticides, etc., of everything they've eaten--IOW they have higher concentrations of pesticides.


  • Throw fruit and veg in wherever you can. For instance, the wife's cereal could involve blueberries or whatever else she likes; grab fresh ones, or buy bags of frozen and microwave them before use. And your pizzas could have more veg--when my husband makes pizza from a box (he always gets the organic or mostly-organic kind), he often cuts up fresh veggies and puts them on it before cooking.
For exercising, an approach that's worked for us was to get a very QUIET and compact exercise bike, put it next to the couch, and ride it while watching TV. We take turns. It requires almost no motivation because it's such a small change--you're watching TV whenever you usually watch it, but you just happen to be sitting in a different "chair" while doing so. This is the bike we got--it's incredibly CHEAP for a good exercise bike, and many reviewers remarked on how quiet it was, so it fit the bill:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004O6TXVS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 04:22:43 PM by Daleth »

matchewed

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #93 on: July 21, 2013, 08:37:15 AM »
(Split individual replies into the post right below this one, as this was too long otherwise.)

Thanks for the thoughts everyone, I really appreciate it.

/Snip for brevity

Multivitamin: some said yes (Rural, Kriegsspiel), some no (gooki, footnote).  I don't currently eat one.  I agree that getting the vitamins from food itself would be better and that you generally don't get all the nutrients in the vitamin but excrete the bulk of it, but given I don't eat that much, does it make sense to try and get a supplement of them from a multi-vitamin?  Or do I even need more vitamins?  Again, I feel healthy and it with good energy levels.

Whole grain: A lot of people recommended whole grain pasta, or brown rice.  We've tried these and just don't care for them as much.  I'm sure we can get used to it, if it's really that much healthier, and not just slightly so.  Is it?

On the topic of multivitamins there is an interesting article in The Atlantic. It is definitely against multivitamins but it is worth a read as it has some good depth to it. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/

totoro

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #94 on: July 21, 2013, 10:53:30 AM »
One important thing is to make sure you don't go too far afield from what you are used to too right away. If I were you, I would slowly try to incorporate healthy/healthier things in with what you are already eating. Not sure how you feel about organic, but I think one thing you could do is transition over to organic/hormone free meat. Same with eggs and dairy. Try to find local sources for your food if possible. It may be more expensive, but that could help you reduce the amount of meat you are eating.

+1 on that. Your normal diet sounds a little heavy on bleached grains, but otherwise nothing jumps out at me as a definite bad idea, and I'm a total health nut. So my version of Hoodedfalcon's advice is:
  • Don't make huge changes to the actual stuff you eat (e.g., sandwiches, pizza); just upgrade their quality (e.g., whole grain bread, organic fruit spread (no added sugar) instead of normal jam, sometimes make the pizza yourselves rather than getting it out of a box, etc.). It's pointless to do a diet that you won't stick with, and it's a lot easier to stick with "continue normal food habits except with higher-quality versions of those foods."


  • Go organic as much as possible. If your budget requires you to be selective about what to go organic on, think about it rationally: do you eat the skin or is the skin super thin (e.g., apple, tomato)? Or is there no skin (e.g., grains)? If so, get it organic; if not (e.g., banana, avocado...), that's where you can most safely dispense with it being organic. Meat, dairy and eggs should also be organic as much as possible, because animals are at the top of the food chain so they contain all the pesticides, etc., of everything they've eaten--IOW they have higher concentrations of pesticides.


  • Throw fruit and veg in wherever you can. For instance, the wife's cereal could involve blueberries or whatever else she likes; grab fresh ones, or buy bags of frozen and microwave them before use. And your pizzas could have more veg--when my husband makes pizza from a box (he always gets the organic or mostly-organic kind), he often cuts up fresh veggies and puts them on it before cooking.
For exercising, an approach that's worked for us was to get a very QUIET and compact exercise bike, put it next to the couch, and ride it while watching TV. We take turns. It requires almost no motivation because it's such a small change--you're watching TV whenever you usually watch it, but you just happen to be sitting in a different "chair" while doing so. This is the bike we got--it's incredibly CHEAP for a good exercise bike, and many reviewers remarked on how quiet it was, so it fit the bill:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004O6TXVS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks for the bike recommendation.  I think this would work well for us.

arebelspy

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #95 on: July 21, 2013, 11:18:41 AM »
My in-laws did the same thing with the bike (use while watching TV).  I think they kinda petered out after a month or two (the initial rush of it).  Think they have that exact same model.

We don't really watch TV, maybe a half hour per day while eating dinner, but I do like the idea for someone that watches TV.
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totoro

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #96 on: July 21, 2013, 11:25:30 AM »
We don't have cable but we do have Netflix and library rentals.  I think our kids will use this too.

killingxspree

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2013, 04:51:40 AM »
Hmm... I'm probably going to err on the side of asshole with this post but I'll say it anyway.

It seems like a bit of contradiction that you used to eat 3000 calories and not gain weight and now you eat a pb&j sandwich and a dinner and are at a low weight. I don't think you have a fast metabolism. I think you just don't eat enough.

Personally I would add more nuts, oats, fruit and legumes into your diet.

Wildflame

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2013, 08:30:13 AM »
Killingxspree brings up a good point. It seems to be an endemic problem in dealing with dietary issues that the subjects are not aware of what they actually are eating. I personally did not realise until I kept a food diary that I substituted approximately 1500 calories of chocolate a day for 'real' meals - hence why I always skipped breakfast and ate a light lunch. I got my calories from endless snacking, instead.

I strongly recommend you keep a food diary for a day, or better, a week - it may prove illuminating. It could identify whether you truly have a fast metabolism or just undereat. It also harnesses the power of 'what gets measured gets managed'.

Now, where's my chocolate cashews?

anastrophe

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Re: I know nothing about food - Help me choose a diet.
« Reply #99 on: July 22, 2013, 09:05:22 AM »
Killingxspree brings up a good point. It seems to be an endemic problem in dealing with dietary issues that the subjects are not aware of what they actually are eating. I personally did not realise until I kept a food diary that I substituted approximately 1500 calories of chocolate a day for 'real' meals - hence why I always skipped breakfast and ate a light lunch. I got my calories from endless snacking, instead.

I strongly recommend you keep a food diary for a day, or better, a week - it may prove illuminating. It could identify whether you truly have a fast metabolism or just undereat. It also harnesses the power of 'what gets measured gets managed'.

Now, where's my chocolate cashews?

I keep a food diary too and it's helpful. I've been able to correlate my mood and general outlook on life to some extent with what I eat. There are also apps for your phone which will also estimate calories and nutrients, which can be illuminating (on the flip side, they're fiddly to use and the databases are not super accurate, and a notebook is just plain simpler).

One question I didn't see up above: do you enjoy cooking? Does experimenting with different types of cuisines and new ingredients excite you? Do you know how to use different techniques for preparing food?

(And I know this seems to have been settled a page ago, but I feel the need to just mention that eating disorders are a mental illness and unless you have some emotional suffering as well, size is just a physical thing. Sure you could gain some muscle and tweak your eating, but that doesn't mean you're sick.)