Author Topic: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...  (Read 88927 times)

bUU

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #200 on: July 19, 2013, 09:31:01 AM »
Please show me where I said that I get to bestow fundamental human rights.
That isn't what I said... I said, "You're trying to say that fundamental human rights are what you personally dictate." Subtle difference. Regardless: Here:

I do disagree with some of that
I agree, no games. I'd prefer everyone speak plainly about how "fundamental human rights" are defined.

grantmeaname

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #201 on: July 19, 2013, 10:06:25 AM »
...
You never addressed my point. Jump start alums don't do any better in sixth grade than their non-jump-start peers. If there's no permanence to Jump Start, why should my tax dollars pay for it?

ace1224

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #202 on: July 19, 2013, 10:16:10 AM »
...
You never addressed my point. Jump start alums don't do any better in sixth grade than their non-jump-start peers. If there's no permanence to Jump Start, why should my tax dollars pay for it?
i did not know that it all evened out by sixth grade.  thank you for telling me.  the only reason i can think of is to help children do better in elementary school and not have to struggle so much.  i will admit i am empathetic to the plight of the child struggling very hard to read so perhaps that is coloring my view. 
so i was wrong, i guess.  i think its important but, to address your question i guess you shouldn't have to if there is no lasting benefit.  unfortunately for all of us we don't get to pick where our taxes go.  there are quite a few things i would like to fund, and some i would  like to cut.

renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #203 on: July 19, 2013, 10:19:09 AM »
Please show me where I said that I get to bestow fundamental human rights.
That isn't what I said... I said, "You're trying to say that fundamental human rights are what you personally dictate." Subtle difference.

But I haven't dictated anything. I have never created a list of what I think should be rights, nor do I believe I have the authority to decide what rights are.

So, no, you're just plain wrong about me.

I see that you're trying to force the issue about where I believe rights come from, and I'm not going to go there. It really shouldn't be difficult to figure it out on your own though. But I understand that others don't subscribe to the same belief system. I don't believe the UN's list is that different from the one I acknowledge, but I'm not interested in taking either of them point-by-point.

Russ

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #204 on: July 19, 2013, 10:55:37 AM »
Fundamental human rights are just, like, a social construct man. Not very fundamental if someone has to decide which ones are fundamental or not amirite?

Jamesqf

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #205 on: July 19, 2013, 11:30:33 AM »
i don't think you have a "right" to have children

It's a fundamental human right.

I don't see how it logically can be (especially if you believe in personhood from conception), since it involves doing things to other humans (the children) who can't give their consent.

bUU

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #206 on: July 19, 2013, 11:37:33 AM »
But I haven't dictated anything.
Thanks for back-pedaling. Effectively I understand you've now said nothing with regard to what we were discussing, so if you'd like to start over and make a definitive comment, I'll be happy to reply.

I see that you're trying to force the issue about where I believe rights come from, and I'm not going to go there.
That sounds like you want to criticize what you want to criticize without providing foundation for your criteria. Okay, that's your choice. Please just let me point that out, when applicable, and we can move on.


renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #207 on: July 19, 2013, 11:39:36 AM »
Thanks for back-pedaling. Effectively I understand you've now said nothing with regard to what we were discussing, so if you'd like to start over and make a definitive comment, I'll be happy to reply.

That sounds like you want to criticize what you want to criticize without providing foundation for your criteria. Okay, that's your choice. Please just let me point that out, when applicable, and we can move on.

All right, I've tried humoring you.

I'm going to direct all my ensuing efforts toward people who want to have a civil and mature conversation about this. Yes, I know you wrongly think that means I'm evading. But I really don't care what you think.

renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #208 on: July 19, 2013, 11:40:31 AM »
Fundamental human rights are just, like, a social construct man. Not very fundamental if someone has to decide which ones are fundamental or not amirite?

No, I don't think any person has to decide what is a right.

They are fundamental. They exist whether we say they are or aren't rights.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 11:43:58 AM by renbutler »

renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #209 on: July 19, 2013, 11:42:59 AM »
i don't think you have a "right" to have children

It's a fundamental human right.

I don't see how it logically can be (especially if you believe in personhood from conception), since it involves doing things to other humans (the children) who can't give their consent.

That child's fundamental rights begin because and after the rights to procreate have been exercised.

Procreation doesn't happen to a child. It creates the child, which pulls the child into the same arena of rights.

bUU

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #210 on: July 19, 2013, 11:48:40 AM »
All right, I've tried humoring you.
I would have preferred you take my comments seriously and respectfully.

ace1224

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #211 on: July 19, 2013, 11:50:57 AM »
i don't think you have a "right" to have children

It's a fundamental human right.

I don't see how it logically can be (especially if you believe in personhood from conception), since it involves doing things to other humans (the children) who can't give their consent.

That child's fundamental rights begin because and after the rights to procreate have been exercised.

Procreation doesn't happen to a child. It creates the child, which pulls the child into the same arena of rights.
totally random tangent but i'm curious.  when a woman is pregnant do you believe the fetus's fundamental rights supercede the mother's?  ie mother needs cancer treatment which would end up terminating the pregnancy.  whose rights in those scenarios are more important

mpbaker22

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #212 on: July 19, 2013, 12:13:29 PM »
totally random tangent but i'm curious.  when a woman is pregnant do you believe the fetus's fundamental rights supercede the mother's?  ie mother needs cancer treatment which would end up terminating the pregnancy.  whose rights in those scenarios are more important

Firstly, that wasn't totally random ;)
I can't answer for renbutler, but I'll guess it's something like this.

That wouldn't be one person's rights superceding another.  This would be a case of taking the best possible route.  In your scenario, you say cancer treatment would end up terminating the pregnancy, but the intent is not to kill the child, it's just a likely end scenario. 

The proper action would be to save the mother's life while taking all reasonable precautionary action to save the child's life as well.

I'm guessing you're looking to say something about this being the same thing as supporting abortion, but there is a very clear distinction.  Abortion, at least the form that we want made illegal, is the willful ending of a prenatal child's life.  Whereas this is the willful saving of a mother's life with the unfortunate, and possibly likely, side effect of the end to the child's life.

renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #213 on: July 19, 2013, 12:14:37 PM »
totally random tangent but i'm curious.  when a woman is pregnant do you believe the fetus's fundamental rights supercede the mother's?  ie mother needs cancer treatment which would end up terminating the pregnancy.  whose rights in those scenarios are more important

Supercede? Absolutely not. I do not believe the child's right to life trumps the mother's in any way. If this occurs, the mother and (if involved) the father, in consultation with the doctor, should have the sole discretion to determine the desired course of action.

It's vaguely similar to legal self-defense laws. I do not have to sacrifice my life to avoid taking the life of somebody who presents a clear, direct, malicious danger to my life (or somebody else's).

In both cases, however, the criteria for willfully ending a life are extremely stringent, and should be used only as a last resort.

EDIT: I would also concur with baker's response.

smalllife

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #214 on: July 19, 2013, 12:22:37 PM »
totally random tangent but i'm curious.  when a woman is pregnant do you believe the fetus's fundamental rights supercede the mother's?  ie mother needs cancer treatment which would end up terminating the pregnancy.  whose rights in those scenarios are more important

Supercede? Absolutely not. I do not believe the child's right to life trumps the mother's in any way. If this occurs, the mother and (if involved) the father, in consultation with the doctor, should have the sole discretion to determine the desired course of action.

So what about women for whom going through a pregnancy would result in severe psychological trauma, only to be exasperated by the long term effects of pregnancy and childbirth?  Severe tokophobia for example.   Why is cancer any different from being forced to endure unwanted physical pains for 9 months followed by permanent dis-figuration?  Not everyone thinks of pregnancy and childbirth the way you do .  . .

ace1224

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #215 on: July 19, 2013, 12:25:18 PM »
totally random tangent but i'm curious.  when a woman is pregnant do you believe the fetus's fundamental rights supercede the mother's?  ie mother needs cancer treatment which would end up terminating the pregnancy.  whose rights in those scenarios are more important

Firstly, that wasn't totally random ;)
I can't answer for renbutler, but I'll guess it's something like this.

That wouldn't be one person's rights superceding another.  This would be a case of taking the best possible route.  In your scenario, you say cancer treatment would end up terminating the pregnancy, but the intent is not to kill the child, it's just a likely end scenario. 

The proper action would be to save the mother's life while taking all reasonable precautionary action to save the child's life as well.

I'm guessing you're looking to say something about this being the same thing as supporting abortion, but there is a very clear distinction.  Abortion, at least the form that we want made illegal, is the willful ending of a prenatal child's life.  Whereas this is the willful saving of a mother's life with the unfortunate, and possibly likely, side effect of the end to the child's life.
i actually wasn't going to go into abortion at all, i was just generally curious as to who he thought was more important in a life or death scenario the mother or child. 
I do not believe the child's right to life trumps the mother's in any way......It's vaguely similar to legal self-defense laws. I do not have to sacrifice my life to avoid taking the life of somebody who presents a clear, direct, malicious danger to my life (or somebody else's).
he answered it.

mpbaker22

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #216 on: July 19, 2013, 12:27:52 PM »
So what about women for whom going through a pregnancy would result in severe psychological trauma, only to be exasperated by the long term effects of pregnancy and childbirth?  Severe tokophobia for example.   Why is cancer any different from being forced to endure unwanted physical pains for 9 months followed by permanent dis-figuration?  Not everyone thinks of pregnancy and childbirth the way you do .  . .

because the original question posed issues that would be life threatening, so you've totally changed the argument.
totally random tangent but i'm curious.  when a woman is pregnant do you believe the fetus's fundamental rights supercede the mother's?  ie mother needs cancer treatment which would end up terminating the pregnancy.  whose rights in those scenarios are more important

Firstly, that wasn't totally random ;)
I can't answer for renbutler, but I'll guess it's something like this.

That wouldn't be one person's rights superceding another.  This would be a case of taking the best possible route.  In your scenario, you say cancer treatment would end up terminating the pregnancy, but the intent is not to kill the child, it's just a likely end scenario. 

The proper action would be to save the mother's life while taking all reasonable precautionary action to save the child's life as well.

Quote
i actually wasn't going to go into abortion at all, i was just generally curious as to who he thought was more important in a life or death scenario the mother or child. 
My apologies, but a sincere question is often times brought up as a baiting technique to invoke a certain response leading into a secondary response back.

smalllife

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #217 on: July 19, 2013, 12:31:34 PM »
So what about women for whom going through a pregnancy would result in severe psychological trauma, only to be exasperated by the long term effects of pregnancy and childbirth?  Severe tokophobia for example.   Why is cancer any different from being forced to endure unwanted physical pains for 9 months followed by permanent dis-figuration?  Not everyone thinks of pregnancy and childbirth the way you do .  . .

because the original question posed issues that would be life threatening, so you've totally changed the argument.


I find severe depression to be life threatening, as well as the increased risk of death from child birth as opposed to an abortion.   You are still advocating inflicting severe mental and physical trauma on a woman, which is slightly disturbing to me.

ace1224

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #218 on: July 19, 2013, 12:34:13 PM »

[/quote]
My apologies, but a sincere question is often times brought up as a baiting technique to invoke a certain response leading into a secondary response back.
[/quote]

no problem.  i usually stay out of abortion threads so it wasn't my intent to turn it into that.  i was looking at it from the fundamental human rights thing of who is more important in that situation.

renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #219 on: July 19, 2013, 12:36:47 PM »
Why is cancer any different from being forced to endure unwanted physical pains for 9 months followed by permanent dis-figuration?  Not everyone thinks of pregnancy and childbirth the way you do .  . .

Wait, is there some sort of agenda that you believe I expressed that leads you to this line of discussion?

It sounds like you are making some pretty grand assumptions about me and my views, and you're being pretty argumentative about it.

We were simply exchanging thoughts, and I believe you have read some pretty significant things into what I've said.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 12:39:26 PM by renbutler »

smalllife

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #220 on: July 19, 2013, 12:45:54 PM »
So what about women for whom going through a pregnancy would result in severe psychological trauma, only to be exasperated by the long term effects of pregnancy and childbirth?  Severe tokophobia for example.   Why is cancer any different from being forced to endure unwanted physical pains for 9 months followed by permanent dis-figuration?  Not everyone thinks of pregnancy and childbirth the way you do .  . .

Wait, is there some sort of agenda that you believe I expressed that leads you to this line of discussion?

It sounds like you are making some pretty grand assumptions about me.

I think I snipped the wrong quote by accident, I was referencing this from mpbaker. Apologies!

Quote
   This would be a case of taking the best possible route.  In your scenario, you say cancer treatment would end up terminating the pregnancy, but the intent is not to kill the child, it's just a likely end scenario. 

I wasn't making grand assumptions or referencing an agenda, not intentionally at least.  I would rather kill myself than be forced to carry a pregnancy to term and live with the ensuing moral and mental depravity (a whole other discussion, feel free to PM if you actually want to know).  That is a minority view, although I know I am not alone in that view.  It is also a view that gets ignored when talking about pregnancy, which is where I am coming from - simply trying to present the fact that pregnancy physically killing the woman is not the only severe adverse effect that can occur when taking away the option to terminate the fetus.


renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #221 on: July 19, 2013, 01:15:08 PM »
It is also a view that gets ignored when talking about pregnancy, which is where I am coming from - simply trying to present the fact that pregnancy physically killing the woman is not the only severe adverse effect that can occur when taking away the option to terminate the fetus.

I don't think it's ignored. Threats to the mother's psychological state have been discussed pretty widely as part of a "health of the mother" exception.

The problem is that it's a pretty gray area. It seems like the kind of thing that could be widely abused (although that's not grounds on its own for exclusion). "Well, she is going to be sad if she has this baby, so the health exception allows her to have an abortion." I'm not saying it would happen, but well written laws don't open these kinds of loopholes.

If the exception for the health of the mother could include very detailed and stringent rules for determining severe and exceptional psychological harm -- beyond things like very real but more manageable depression -- the health exception would probably be easier for the typical pro-lifer to accept.

brewer12345

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #222 on: July 19, 2013, 05:32:41 PM »
Its amazing how many posts are on this thread from members of my ignore club.

That said, there is a really easy way to 100% avoid pregnancy: stick to buttsex.  Voila, problem solved.

renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #223 on: July 19, 2013, 06:27:53 PM »
That said, there is a really easy way to 100% avoid pregnancy: stick to buttsex.  Voila, problem solved.

I imagine there are some fairly significant side effects!




ouch

golden1

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #224 on: July 20, 2013, 03:19:12 AM »
This is hilarious....

I suggest you go find a place to live that has no public education and see how you like it.  You don't HAVE to live here. 

nktokyo

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #225 on: July 20, 2013, 03:35:54 AM »
You originally went to a school and other people paid taxes that contributed to that. What goes around comes around....

oldtoyota

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #226 on: July 20, 2013, 08:56:22 AM »
It's pretty widespread.
Less than one in 50. Would it kill you to look for a statistic to support your ridiculous opinions just once?

It may not be "fraud" but a woman who keeps pumping out baby after baby while on welfare is as bad a fraud. There should be personal accountability.  But the system rewards these losers with paying them to have more children. The more irresponsible they are the more they will be rewarded.

Wow. I always thought it took a man AND a woman to make a baby.


oldtoyota

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #227 on: July 20, 2013, 08:57:27 AM »
Repeat offenders only. And they can always so no but then the FREE $$$$$ has to stop. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization     

Do these people just not understand that they need to stop making babies? Are they really that stupid. STOP REWARDING BAD LIFE CHOICES.   Things will never change so you should be happy!

You are a hilarious troll. lol Ridiculous.

oldtoyota

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #228 on: July 20, 2013, 08:58:52 AM »
We had our kids in the hospital. We never even considered home birth.

We did not want a home birth and had one anyway. It was not too hard--and very frugal. ;-)

mpbaker22

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #229 on: July 20, 2013, 10:35:10 AM »
Wow. I always thought it took a man AND a woman to make a baby.

This could potentially open some interesting discussions.  A large amount of poverty is caused by the man not being around post-birth.  There was actually a law in St. Louis in the 50s/60s that basically stated a woman could only receive welfare for her children if the father lived in another state - I bet we can all imagine what kind of problems that created now that a vast majority of households in the 'ghettos' of St. Louis don't have father-figures.

Another logical conclusion from the whole "it's my body I can do what I want" movement is that a father should not be required to pay child support.  After all, it's the woman's body and she did with it what she wanted.  Perhaps in this case we could keep a government record of all women who have had abortions and take them off the list for child support from the father?

That second paragraph isn't my actual thought, but it's the logical conclusion of the crowd that advocates the rights of the woman's body over the child's.

Eric

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #230 on: July 20, 2013, 11:58:34 AM »

Another logical conclusion from the whole "it's my body I can do what I want" movement is that a father should not be required to pay child support.  After all, it's the woman's body and she did with it what she wanted.  Perhaps in this case we could keep a government record of all women who have had abortions and take them off the list for child support from the father?

That second paragraph isn't my actual thought, but it's the logical conclusion of the crowd that advocates the rights of the woman's body over the child's.

That's not a logical conclusion at all.  Child support is to help the child.  It doesn't really matter how the child got here.  If there's a child here, it needs support.  It's inconsequential whether the child was wanted by both parties or not.

oldtoyota

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #231 on: July 20, 2013, 01:45:09 PM »
...
You never addressed my point. Jump start alums don't do any better in sixth grade than their non-jump-start peers. If there's no permanence to Jump Start, why should my tax dollars pay for it?

Agreed. Same with bombs. If bombs don't work, I don't want to pay for them. We've been bombing people for years. What is the efficacy of bombing? Why are we spending so much $$ on it?? Why do I have to have my taxes go to that? I think each bomb is at least $150K.

Sofa King

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #232 on: July 20, 2013, 01:58:40 PM »
Get a load of this piece of sh!t woman.

"Someone need to pay for all my children"  "Someone needs to be held accountable" 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykdtrp7KHzU

15 kids with 3 different babydaddy's and now prego with #16.  She is payed to breed by the government.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 02:01:43 PM by Sofa King »

matchewed

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #233 on: July 20, 2013, 02:18:31 PM »
Get a load of this piece of sh!t woman.

"Someone need to pay for all my children"  "Someone needs to be held accountable" 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykdtrp7KHzU

15 kids with 3 different babydaddy's and now prego with #16.  She is payed to breed by the government.

Do you have anything other than anecdotes and pure outrage to fuel your viewpoint? I'm sure that for every person you show who is abusing the system I can show more using it in the way it was meant to. In fact I think this post demonstrated it. -
It's pretty widespread.
Less than one in 50. Would it kill you to look for a statistic to support your ridiculous opinions just once?

Sofa King

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #234 on: July 20, 2013, 02:38:57 PM »
This is a great idea!!!

It seeks to send a message to poor women that having more children will only increase hardship and deprivation – not bring extra cash. That message is intended to be so clear and harsh that it will reach into the most private sexual relationships, persuading women to stop having children they cannot support.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/welfare/stories/wf033097.htm


matchewed

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #235 on: July 20, 2013, 02:50:52 PM »
This is a great idea!!!

It seeks to send a message to poor women that having more children will only increase hardship and deprivation – not bring extra cash. That message is intended to be so clear and harsh that it will reach into the most private sexual relationships, persuading women to stop having children they cannot support.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/welfare/stories/wf033097.htm

Sounds good in a way that is punitive, rather than educational and improving someones situation, but proven to not be effective.

Sofa King

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #236 on: July 20, 2013, 03:03:20 PM »
That's why I suggested this.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization


As long as we continue keep paying people to breed things will never start to improve.

matchewed

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #237 on: July 20, 2013, 03:10:16 PM »
That's why I suggested this.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization


As long as we continue keep paying people to breed things will never start to improve.

I don't say things like this lightly. You're a terrible human being. Who are you to dictate whether someone is allowed to have children or not? Why not encourage economic stability and education which has a proven track record of effectiveness rather than being a monster.

grantmeaname

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #238 on: July 20, 2013, 03:29:36 PM »
Don't feed the troll, folks.

Sofa King

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #239 on: July 20, 2013, 03:32:04 PM »
LOL!!!  This coming from a guy who has responded at least a dozen times on this thread!!!  LOL!!!   



NEXT!!!

oldtoyota

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #240 on: July 20, 2013, 04:15:32 PM »
Get a load of this piece of sh!t woman.

"Someone need to pay for all my children"  "Someone needs to be held accountable" 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykdtrp7KHzU

15 kids with 3 different babydaddy's and now prego with #16.  She is payed to breed by the government.

What about the father(s)? Where is he?

Funny how you continue to think only women make babies.

Your comments reveal a lot about you and your level of intelligence and your regard for women and humankind.

For instance, you define the woman in terms of "3 different babydaddy's" but you are not defining men in terms of how many "babymommas" they have. This seems to indicate you are okay with men making babies and leaving the scene to then make more babies elsewhere.




Sofa King

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #241 on: July 20, 2013, 04:50:13 PM »
Get a load of this piece of sh!t woman.

"Someone need to pay for all my children"  "Someone needs to be held accountable" 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykdtrp7KHzU

15 kids with 3 different babydaddy's and now prego with #16.  She is payed to breed by the government.

What about the father(s)? Where is he?

Funny how you continue to think only women make babies.



For instance, you define the woman in terms of "3 different babydaddy's" but you are not defining men in terms of how many "babymommas" they have. This seems to indicate you are okay with men making babies and leaving the scene to then make more babies elsewhere.

Sorry.....my bad.  Maybe it's time for another million man march?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNohGQv9o9g   

Eric

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #242 on: July 20, 2013, 07:00:52 PM »
I can't believe the Mustache Forum has it's own dedicated troll.  That's big time!  I bet MMM is pretty proud.

Sofa King

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #243 on: July 20, 2013, 10:49:15 PM »
i don't think you have a "right" to have children, as in i can't afford them but i'm gonna have them anyways dammit because i love them in reference to the whole benefits/punishing parents/not punishing kids.  i still stand by you shouldn't have kids you can't afford and then expect government assistance, it isn't "right" and it shouldn't be something you should be able to do just because you have the "right" to do so.


I concur.

bUU

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #244 on: July 21, 2013, 04:59:57 AM »
Fundamental rights aren't reflections of what you personally want or think those rights should be. They're the reflection of consensus and compromise in full recognition of the fact that reasonable people disagree and differ in their beliefs and values. There is no logical basis for assertion of one's own personal preferences in this context; the only rational path for determine such rights is acknowledgement of the variances between people and acceptance that the fundamental rights are those that best fit what the vast majority of people can abide, even though none agree with all of it.

Sofa King

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #245 on: July 21, 2013, 11:06:53 AM »
That's your opinion.   LOL!!  :  )

renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #246 on: July 21, 2013, 03:05:11 PM »
Fundamental rights aren't reflections of what you personally want or think those rights should be. They're the reflection of consensus and compromise in full recognition of the fact that reasonable people disagree and differ in their beliefs and values. There is no logical basis for assertion of one's own personal preferences in this context; the only rational path for determine such rights is acknowledgement of the variances between people and acceptance that the fundamental rights are those that best fit what the vast majority of people can abide, even though none agree with all of it.

That's not the definition of fundamental rights.

People can debate them and disagree with them all they want, but those rights are fundamental and cannot be changed.

There are additional rights that governments can bestow upon people based on community values, but those rights are not fundamental.

grantmeaname

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #247 on: July 21, 2013, 04:33:01 PM »
Fundamental rights are in no way inherent to the universe. They are ideas created by humans just like any other law or right. Any distinction you choose to make is arbitrary.

hoodedfalcon

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #248 on: July 21, 2013, 04:56:46 PM »
Fundamental rights are in no way inherent to the universe. They are ideas created by humans just like any other law or right. Any distinction you choose to make is arbitrary.

+1

renbutler

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Re: I Hate Paying School Taxes When I Have No Kids...
« Reply #249 on: July 21, 2013, 06:56:18 PM »
You're free to disagree all you want, but I'm going to agree with the Declaration of Independence, and the majority of others who see great truth in the universal, inherent rights mentioned therein (which wasn't an all-inclusive list), along with the statement about their origins.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 06:59:48 PM by renbutler »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!