Author Topic: How will the shutdown get resolved?  (Read 6212 times)

DarkandStormy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2018, 11:09:24 AM »
Looks like Dems cave and will agree to a CR for three weeks (through Feb. 8th) and 6 years funding of CHIP.


Still has to be signed off by DJT.  Curious whether he'll sign off on it as a "win!" or force this to drag on longer to extract yet more concessions.

Not sure how postponing this for another 2.5 weeks will play out for either party, though.

Democrats got a very public commitment from McConnell to have a vote on DACA and the Dreamers by Feb. 8th.  If he refuses they get to proclaim it loudly.  If he does, it puts pressure on the House, which is much more conservative.

Risky play but they got CHIP funding for 6 years (finally...a$$hole Republicans sat on it after letting it expire 4 months ago).
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AdrianC

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2018, 11:15:20 AM »

What was there, four Republicans voted against? Haven't looked into it. Probably grandstanding. I'm guessing one of them was Rand Paul. He votes against just about everything of consequence.

Six (see above).  Plus Five Dems voted FOR the latest CR.
I can't see this as Dems shutting down the government when GOP defections outnumber the minority-party's support.

McCain wasn't there. McConnell's vote was for procedural reasons. So 4 Republicans against, 44 Dems against. Looks like the Dems got it.

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/22/579397310/shutdown-question-who-s-out-of-touch-with-the-american-people

Polls show at least three Americans in four agree the DACA population should have legal status to stay. But a clear majority of Americans also think it was not worth shutting the government down over DACA. That's true too, and the shutdown is the issue of the moment, right?

Optics were very bad for the Dems. Looks like they caved.

partgypsy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2018, 11:44:04 AM »
I guess the question is, who caused the shutdown of the government over Daca. Daca wasn't an issue until Trump unilaterally shut it down this fall (my view, is because Obama created it, and he has a problem with anything associated with Obama, that "Kenyan" guy). It was a problem created by Trump in the first place, and he even allowed the gov to be shut down over it. How many more of these created problems will we go through in the next 3 years, and government shutdowns, because Trump enjoys throwing his weight around? Anyone's guess?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 12:08:02 PM by partgypsy »

sol

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2018, 11:47:13 AM »
Optics were very bad for the Dems. Looks like they caved.

Of course they caved.  They always cave.

They've caved three times in the past four months, agreeing to short term CRs and getting nothing in return.  At least they time they got a temporary chip fix by postponing their caving for a weekend.

Is that really what it takes to get republicans in congress to pass popular bipartisan legislation?  They have to literally threaten to close the doors in order to get them to pass anything at all?

How many more of these created problems will we go through in the next 3 years, and government shutdowns, because Trump enjoys throwing his weight around? Anyone's guess?

I'm betting on another one in another three weeks.  Nothing will have changed.  Republicans still don't have the votes to pass a budget of any sort, filibuster or not.  Dreamers are still being deported.  Trump still hates everyone and thinks a shutdown makes for good tv. 

DarkandStormy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2018, 12:06:35 PM »
This is what will happen.

Some version of the Durbin/Graham will pass the Senate in the coming weeks (which McConnell ALREADY AGREED TO before this shutdown).  McConnell will rope-a-dope Dems into voting for a budget bill as well since he help up his end of the deal.

The bipartisan bill will die in the House because the Freedom Caucus is full of racists hell bent on stopping anything related to immigration other than a wall.

The House will pass the budget bill and the government will be funded for 2018.

Dreamers will then start getting deported because Republicans are mostly racist now and don't care about these kids who were brought here and know no other home.

McConnell can then say he allowed a vote on the DACA extension and blame Democrats if they withhold votes on the budget bill.

Unless Democrats grow a spine in two weeks, McConnell will have played them.
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AdrianC

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2018, 01:31:51 PM »
They've caved three times in the past four months, agreeing to short term CRs and getting nothing in return.  At least they time they got a temporary chip fix by postponing their caving for a weekend.

Is that really what it takes to get republicans in congress to pass popular bipartisan legislation?  They have to literally threaten to close the doors in order to get them to pass anything at all?

So I'm not from around here and I guess I'm missing something, but...why would the Democrats need to get something in return simply for funding our government?

cliffhanger

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2018, 01:34:55 PM »
It appears that my suspicions about the last shutdown in 2013 are all but confirmed due to this shutdown.

The most memorable stories for me were of barricades being put up people being turned away from parks and memorials, including every National Park like the Grand Canyon. Since much of these are passive memorials/parks, I was suspicious that the Obama administration unnecessarily closed them to paint a more damaging picture of government shutdowns than reality.

Fast forward to the current shutdown. None of this is happening. Grand Canyon, for example, remains open along with all these other parks that were closed last time.

Current notice from https://www.nps.gov/grca/index.htm for reference:
Quote
Grand Canyon National Park remains accessible to the public. NPS operated facilities are closed. All applicable laws and regulations are in place. Businesses operating within the park remain open, including lodging, restaurants, and retail.

I don't think the democrats come out looking good from this, but time will tell.

DarkandStormy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2018, 01:37:40 PM »
It appears that my suspicions about the last shutdown in 2013 are all but confirmed due to this shutdown.

The most memorable stories for me were of barricades being put up people being turned away from parks and memorials, including every National Park like the Grand Canyon. Since much of these are passive memorials/parks, I was suspicious that the Obama administration unnecessarily closed them to paint a more damaging picture of government shutdowns than reality.

Fast forward to the current shutdown. None of this is happening. Grand Canyon, for example, remains open along with all these other parks that were closed last time.

Current notice from https://www.nps.gov/grca/index.htm for reference:
Quote
Grand Canyon National Park remains accessible to the public. NPS operated facilities are closed. All applicable laws and regulations are in place. Businesses operating within the park remain open, including lodging, restaurants, and retail.

I don't think the democrats come out looking good from this, but time will tell.

Obama made sure military personnel got funding.  Democrats tried multiple time to pass military funding and Republicans killed it before it was put up for a vote.
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DarkandStormy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2018, 01:40:15 PM »
They've caved three times in the past four months, agreeing to short term CRs and getting nothing in return.  At least they time they got a temporary chip fix by postponing their caving for a weekend.

Is that really what it takes to get republicans in congress to pass popular bipartisan legislation?  They have to literally threaten to close the doors in order to get them to pass anything at all?

So I'm not from around here and I guess I'm missing something, but...why would the Democrats need to get something in return simply for funding our government?

There are disagreements on how to spend government money, if there should be caps in place, etc.

The Democrats have almost no leverage except for this budget process right now.  They were promised votes on DACA and CHIP and the Republicans sat on those for four months while passing a tax cut that will add $1.5 trillion to the deficit with 83% of the benefits going to the top 1% of this country.

So what the Democrats were trying to do was to push for votes on DACA, CHIP, disaster relief, etc. (DACA and CHIP being the main two) in exchange for giving Republicans the necessary 60 votes in the Senate to pass the 2018 budget while also allowing for funding for more border security (and possibly "the wall").
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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2018, 01:41:34 PM »
They've caved three times in the past four months, agreeing to short term CRs and getting nothing in return.  At least they time they got a temporary chip fix by postponing their caving for a weekend.

Is that really what it takes to get republicans in congress to pass popular bipartisan legislation?  They have to literally threaten to close the doors in order to get them to pass anything at all?

So I'm not from around here and I guess I'm missing something, but...why would the Democrats need to get something in return simply for funding our government?
Why are we only asking this of the Democrats?  The GOP used this CR to roll back health-care taxes.  Does the GOP get some of their 'wish-list' items but not the Dems?  Why are we still on CRs after 4 months?
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cliffhanger

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #60 on: January 22, 2018, 01:55:37 PM »
It appears that my suspicions about the last shutdown in 2013 are all but confirmed due to this shutdown.

The most memorable stories for me were of barricades being put up people being turned away from parks and memorials, including every National Park like the Grand Canyon. Since much of these are passive memorials/parks, I was suspicious that the Obama administration unnecessarily closed them to paint a more damaging picture of government shutdowns than reality.

Fast forward to the current shutdown. None of this is happening. Grand Canyon, for example, remains open along with all these other parks that were closed last time.

Current notice from https://www.nps.gov/grca/index.htm for reference:
Quote
Grand Canyon National Park remains accessible to the public. NPS operated facilities are closed. All applicable laws and regulations are in place. Businesses operating within the park remain open, including lodging, restaurants, and retail.

I don't think the democrats come out looking good from this, but time will tell.

Obama made sure military personnel got funding.  Democrats tried multiple time to pass military funding and Republicans killed it before it was put up for a vote.

You mean this bill which passed unanimously in both chambers? https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/3210

Good for Congress! Good for Obama!

Now what does it have to do with the argument I presented?

AdrianC

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2018, 02:38:57 PM »
They've caved three times in the past four months, agreeing to short term CRs and getting nothing in return.  At least they time they got a temporary chip fix by postponing their caving for a weekend.

Is that really what it takes to get republicans in congress to pass popular bipartisan legislation?  They have to literally threaten to close the doors in order to get them to pass anything at all?

So I'm not from around here and I guess I'm missing something, but...why would the Democrats need to get something in return simply for funding our government?
Why are we only asking this of the Democrats?  The GOP used this CR to roll back health-care taxes.  Does the GOP get some of their 'wish-list' items but not the Dems?  Why are we still on CRs after 4 months?

I was just wondering why non-budgetary items, like DACA, get attached to government funding in the first place. It's the game we play, I guess.

Watching how the sausage is made...

I did find a nice flowchart on the budget process:

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/federal-budget-process/


partgypsy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2018, 02:53:56 PM »
They've caved three times in the past four months, agreeing to short term CRs and getting nothing in return.  At least they time they got a temporary chip fix by postponing their caving for a weekend.

Is that really what it takes to get republicans in congress to pass popular bipartisan legislation?  They have to literally threaten to close the doors in order to get them to pass anything at all?

So I'm not from around here and I guess I'm missing something, but...why would the Democrats need to get something in return simply for funding our government?
Why are we only asking this of the Democrats?  The GOP used this CR to roll back health-care taxes.  Does the GOP get some of their 'wish-list' items but not the Dems?  Why are we still on CRs after 4 months?

I was just wondering why non-budgetary items, like DACA, get attached to government funding in the first place. It's the game we play, I guess.

Watching how the sausage is made...

I did find a nice flowchart on the budget process:

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/federal-budget-process/
One answer, is that Daca, in additional to legal and ethical considerations, has budgetary implications. Not saying this is the reason, but rescinding Daca without having a plan in place would cost our country.
http://www.newsweek.com/rescinding-daca-will-cost-us-economy-200-billion-666288

I think it's sad that the government shut down because of this. But it's also ridiculous because Daca is a noncontroversial program, as is CHIP.  If the current administration and congress can't come to agreements for programs with popular support, sure don't see how they are going to deal with more complicated situations. Part of the problem is that the Republican party has a far right minority (Freedom caucus) that has become a poison pill for anything except for their minority right wing agenda.   

DarkandStormy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2018, 02:57:21 PM »
It appears that my suspicions about the last shutdown in 2013 are all but confirmed due to this shutdown.

The most memorable stories for me were of barricades being put up people being turned away from parks and memorials, including every National Park like the Grand Canyon. Since much of these are passive memorials/parks, I was suspicious that the Obama administration unnecessarily closed them to paint a more damaging picture of government shutdowns than reality.

Fast forward to the current shutdown. None of this is happening. Grand Canyon, for example, remains open along with all these other parks that were closed last time.

Current notice from https://www.nps.gov/grca/index.htm for reference:
Quote
Grand Canyon National Park remains accessible to the public. NPS operated facilities are closed. All applicable laws and regulations are in place. Businesses operating within the park remain open, including lodging, restaurants, and retail.

I don't think the democrats come out looking good from this, but time will tell.

Obama made sure military personnel got funding.  Democrats tried multiple time to pass military funding and Republicans killed it before it was put up for a vote.

You mean this bill which passed unanimously in both chambers? https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/3210

Good for Congress! Good for Obama!

Now what does it have to do with the argument I presented?

You're saying the Democrats don't look good in this because they shuttered national parks in the 2013 shutdown, but now (under a Republican POTUS) the national parks are staying open.  You are implying Obama/the Democrats used the national parks as a political ploy in the last shutdown.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/government-shutdown-military-soldiers-302007

Quote
“Despite bipartisan support for a budget resolution, a minority in the Senate has decided to play politics with military pay," Pence said at a base near the Syrian border. “But you deserve better. You and your families shouldn't have to worry about getting paid.”

Democrats fired back by accusing Republicans of hypocrisy, noting that GOP leaders have blocked a stand-alone bill that would keep paychecks, bonuses, housing allowances and other benefits flowing to troops and their families. Congress took such a step when the last government shutdown in 2013 appeared imminent.

The GOP didn't even allow a stand-alone vote on paying our military.  They opted to use them as a bargaining chip.  It's disgusting.
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Travis

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2018, 03:15:37 PM »
They've caved three times in the past four months, agreeing to short term CRs and getting nothing in return.  At least they time they got a temporary chip fix by postponing their caving for a weekend.

Is that really what it takes to get republicans in congress to pass popular bipartisan legislation?  They have to literally threaten to close the doors in order to get them to pass anything at all?

So I'm not from around here and I guess I'm missing something, but...why would the Democrats need to get something in return simply for funding our government?
Why are we only asking this of the Democrats?  The GOP used this CR to roll back health-care taxes.  Does the GOP get some of their 'wish-list' items but not the Dems?  Why are we still on CRs after 4 months?

I was just wondering why non-budgetary items, like DACA, get attached to government funding in the first place. It's the game we play, I guess.

Watching how the sausage is made...

I did find a nice flowchart on the budget process:

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/federal-budget-process/

Regarding your link, we're 4 months into this FY without a budget, and next month the process is supposed to begin for the next one.  I've lost track of what years we've actually had a budget since we've had so many CRs.  There are supposed to be 12 spending bills each year, but I think the last time each one got its own vote was in the mid 1990s.  Every year it's DoD and "everyone else."  Which reminds me, I want to start punching people for bemoaning how service members and border patrol are left out in the cold in government shut downs.  The White House Press Secretary mentioned it only about 10 times this morning.  Why are we the only ones deserving of mention?  We're not the only ones whose livelihoods are dependent on federal appropriations.
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Kris

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2018, 04:25:39 PM »
From activist Jim Wright’s FB feed:

————

Senate Dems: WE WILL NEVER YIELD!

Left: Yeah!

Senate Dems: WE'RE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY!

Left: Yes!

Senate Dems: WE ARE MIGHTY!

Left: Yes! Yes!

Senate Dems: WE ARE RIGHTEOUS!

Left: Never surrender!

Senate Dems: WE WILL NEVER GIVE IN!

Left: Never give in! Never give in!

Senate Dems: WE....

McConnell: So, how about maybe trade for these magic beans?

Senate Dems: Ooooooooooh!

Left: WHAT ARE YOU DOING? IT'S A HORRIBLE FUCKING DEAL! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT!

Senate Dems: Shiny!

_____

And so it goes.

Predictably, Democrats folded. Can't say I'm surprised, given that none of them own a spine and never have.

McConnell, a man who has never kept his word to anybody, ever, promised Democrats that he'd allow a vote on DACA in exchange for another Continuing Resolution which extends government operation to February 8th.

Then we're right back to this same exact point.

Now, of course, Mitch McConnell IS lying. Because that's what he does. That's all he does.

You know it.

I know it.

McConnell knows it.

Republicans know it.

Democrat know it.

We all know it, but we're all going to pretend like we didn't hear him call jinx.  When McConnell finds a way to weasel out of his promise, AND HE WILL, we're all supposed to act surprised that Mitch McConnell is a dirty rotten lying son of a bitch. What? Whaaaaaaaaaat? No way, he's never been a dirty rotten lying son of a bitch before, we had no way to know! Oh woe! Oh betrayal! <insert Macaulay Culkin Home Alone face here>

But here's the thing:

A lot of Americans are going to laugh nasty little laughs at how Mitch McConnell trolled Democrats.

And then they're going to go to the polls and reelect every one of these horrible people while Democrats cry in the corner about the fact that they trusted him and he was a dirty rotten lying son of bitch.

Ask yourself this: What leverage do Democrats have to hold Mitch McConnell or Donald Trump to this promise?

What?

What is it? Show it to me.

If McConnell yanks the football away, what can democrats actually do about it?

C'mon, show me.

Yeah.

Charlie Brown had it right, they're all rats.
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the_fixer

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2018, 04:53:06 PM »


From activist Jim Wright’s FB feed:

————

Senate Dems: WE WILL NEVER YIELD!

Left: Yeah!

Senate Dems: WE'RE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY!

Left: Yes!

Senate Dems: WE ARE MIGHTY!

Left: Yes! Yes!

Senate Dems: WE ARE RIGHTEOUS!

Left: Never surrender!

Senate Dems: WE WILL NEVER GIVE IN!

Left: Never give in! Never give in!

Senate Dems: WE....

McConnell: So, how about maybe trade for these magic beans?

Senate Dems: Ooooooooooh!

Left: WHAT ARE YOU DOING? IT'S A HORRIBLE FUCKING DEAL! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT!

Senate Dems: Shiny!

_____

This right here had me laughing at my desk. Not sure if you intended it to be funny but the mental picture you drew made my week.


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nereo

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #67 on: January 22, 2018, 04:59:46 PM »
I’ve been thinking a lot about the criticism that a political party (here mostly the Dems) shouldn’t make demands on a CR that keeps the government open.  Various issues should be brought up later, and a “clean” CR bill should be put forth for a simple “up or down” vote.

Here’s the problem I have with this - we’re supposed to have a budget where funding for everything the government does is set for a year. Instead we’re using these CRs as stop-gap measures.  By default they have become the funding mechanism for much of the FY.  In that light fighting over CHIP or border security or whatever seems appropriate... but with the very real pitfall that failure to approach a CR leads to the s-show we had over this extended weekend. It’s also the reason why we’re supposed to have 60 votes and not a simple majority (to encourage/facilitate compromises).

Yeah, it’s really not operating as it should, but I don’t get the criticism that the minority party shouldn’t use these CRs to push their objectives.
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pecunia

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #68 on: January 22, 2018, 06:19:12 PM »
I look at this thing from a distance.

If you stand back six months and look at what was wanted, it makes the Republican party seem sort of cruel.  They wouldn't give young people already in this country a chance to succeed.  they wanted to send them to countries where basically they have never been.  A few months before that they tried & are trying to take health care from sick poor people.  They get away with blaming pretty much every thing that is wrong on America's first black president who is no longer in office or on the woman who lost the election to a boob.

Me and Dr Evil are really getting to like these guys.

wenchsenior

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #69 on: January 22, 2018, 07:16:19 PM »
From activist Jim Wright’s FB feed:

—�—�—�—�

Senate Dems: WE WILL NEVER YIELD!

Left: Yeah!

Senate Dems: WE'RE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY!

Left: Yes!

Senate Dems: WE ARE MIGHTY!

Left: Yes! Yes!

Senate Dems: WE ARE RIGHTEOUS!

Left: Never surrender!

Senate Dems: WE WILL NEVER GIVE IN!

Left: Never give in! Never give in!

Senate Dems: WE....

McConnell: So, how about maybe trade for these magic beans?

Senate Dems: Ooooooooooh!

Left: WHAT ARE YOU DOING? IT'S A HORRIBLE FUCKING DEAL! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT!

Senate Dems: Shiny!

_____

And so it goes.

Predictably, Democrats folded. Can't say I'm surprised, given that none of them own a spine and never have.

McConnell, a man who has never kept his word to anybody, ever, promised Democrats that he'd allow a vote on DACA in exchange for another Continuing Resolution which extends government operation to February 8th.

Then we're right back to this same exact point.

Now, of course, Mitch McConnell IS lying. Because that's what he does. That's all he does.

You know it.

I know it.

McConnell knows it.

Republicans know it.

Democrat know it.

We all know it, but we're all going to pretend like we didn't hear him call jinx.  When McConnell finds a way to weasel out of his promise, AND HE WILL, we're all supposed to act surprised that Mitch McConnell is a dirty rotten lying son of a bitch. What? Whaaaaaaaaaat? No way, he's never been a dirty rotten lying son of a bitch before, we had no way to know! Oh woe! Oh betrayal! <insert Macaulay Culkin Home Alone face here>

But here's the thing:

A lot of Americans are going to laugh nasty little laughs at how Mitch McConnell trolled Democrats.

And then they're going to go to the polls and reelect every one of these horrible people while Democrats cry in the corner about the fact that they trusted him and he was a dirty rotten lying son of bitch.

Ask yourself this: What leverage do Democrats have to hold Mitch McConnell or Donald Trump to this promise?

What?

What is it? Show it to me.


If McConnell yanks the football away, what can democrats actually do about it?

C'mon, show me.

Yeah.

Charlie Brown had it right, they're all rats.

I'm a (almost entirely) consistent Dem voter, and I find that hilariously accurate.  It's also exactly why picking any hill to 'die on but really just swoon for a few days' is stupid, when you are the party that doesn't control ANY of the three branches involved in legislating, but remain the party more committed to actually governing.  Dems legislators are terrible at strategy, and their leftist base is ALWAYS distracted by 'sexy' grandstanding, marching, etc. as opposed to actually running local candidates and building a long game.

I say this as a (mostly) committed Dem voter.  :sigh:

sol

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #70 on: January 22, 2018, 08:22:06 PM »
the party that doesn't control ANY of the three branches involved in legislating, but remain the party more committed to actually governing. 

This is an interesting point. 

Republicans shut down the government in 2013 because they opposed popular legislation that had already passed, and wanted it overturned.

Democrats shut down the government in 2017 because the supported popular legislation that republicans were refusing to vote on.

In both cases, what I see here is democrats trying to "govern", by fighting to do something positive, and republicans fighting to do nothing at all.  I mean it's disappointing that democrats let Trump bait them into the shutdown he's been promising for the past nine months, but at least they took a stand in order to force the republicans to actually pass something, instead of just stall perpetually on everything.  If I have to take one day off of work every three weeks in order for Congress to pass every single bill that needs passing, that's probably not the end of the world.

dmc

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #71 on: January 23, 2018, 06:49:46 AM »
If Obama would have kept his promise to take care of immigration reform back in 08 when the dems had a 60 vote majority we wouldn’t be worrying about it today.  So did he lie?  Or was it really not that important to the democrats at the time.


DarkandStormy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2018, 08:15:37 AM »
The glass half full view on it (if you're a liberal/progressive/not a racist) is that the Democrats got CHIP funding for 6 years (sad that they "got" that given it polls at like 90% and the GOP has said for 4 months they support it....but whatever).  McConnell can no longer send out those despicable ads of choosing between 9 million CHIP kids or the 800k DACA recipients.

So they took a point of leverage off the table for the GOP.  They have a commitment in a very public stage from McConnell that the Dreamers will get protection.  We now have multiple sources on the record from back in October that Paul Ryan said DACA will be part of a long-term spending bill.

They gave themselves three weeks to see if the GOP can follow through on their word.

But yeah, they ****ing caved after 72 hours.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 09:28:19 AM by DarkandStormy »
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A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #73 on: January 23, 2018, 09:20:45 AM »
I don't see how the Dems could have played this any differently. They are in the minority. What is your alternative? Keep the government shutdown until November when hopefully the American people elect Bernie Sanders Emperor and universal health care is bestowed to all?

Scortius

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #74 on: January 23, 2018, 11:24:36 AM »
If Obama would have kept his promise to take care of immigration reform back in 08 when the dems had a 60 vote majority we wouldn’t be worrying about it today.  So did he lie?  Or was it really not that important to the democrats at the time.

This seems to come up a lot. The Dems had a super-majority for essentially 70 days, not two years, and that super-majority was incredibly fragile, depending on votes from two independent senators (Sanders and Lieberman) as well as a number of 'Blue-Dog' Democrats from centrist states unwilling push the envelope. Remember that Franken was stuck in a recount for months, and then shortly after Ted Kennedy died and was replaced with Republican Scott Brown.

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partgypsy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2018, 02:20:44 PM »
Damn that was fast. Sanders already held press conference that the Flake-Graham-Durbin deal (for DACA) should be considered "dead on arrival" and completely unacceptable. WTF.  They get what they want and then even before it's discussed reject it.

DarkandStormy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2018, 02:57:14 PM »
Damn that was fast. Sanders already held press conference that the Flake-Graham-Durbin deal (for DACA) should be considered "dead on arrival" and completely unacceptable. WTF.  They get what they want and then even before it's discussed reject it.

Because Trump can't provide a consistent response on what he wants or would accept.  He's a completely inept leader.

Donald "I'll sign whatever they come up with" Trump is already rejecting a bipartisan deal that likely has at least 56 votes in the Senate.

He's not playing 4D chess.  He's an idiot.
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Mac_MacGyver

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2018, 06:38:33 PM »
Round 2 is only a few days out.

sol

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2018, 06:47:40 PM »
Round 2 is only a few days out.

Republicans are already predicting that democrats will capitulate on every point, and let the Republicans pass any sort of budget they want to without any concessions.  No limits to spending.  No immigration reform.  Nothing.  Just carte blanche to pass the Paul Ryan dream budget, which probably means cuts to medicaid and medicare.

Mac_MacGyver

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2018, 07:13:08 PM »
Round 2 is only a few days out.

Republicans are already predicting that democrats will capitulate on every point, and let the Republicans pass any sort of budget they want to without any concessions.  No limits to spending.  No immigration reform.  Nothing.  Just carte blanche to pass the Paul Ryan dream budget, which probably means cuts to medicaid and medicare.

A bold prediction,  I am curious what the future holds.

Ocinfo

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2018, 10:22:35 AM »
Main question right now is how far down the road they kick the can or, perhaps more likely, how hard do they fall when they whiff.  I have not seen any movement towards compromise in the last 2+ weeks so what good would another short term extension do?   I would guess that we’ll have a longer shutdown this week as I don’t think Democrats have anything to lose as ultimately the majority party gets blamed long term when a budget can’t be passed. The other option is that they completely capitulate with a bet that they’ll take back the house and be able to limit actual funding for Republican initiatives in 2019 and beyond.


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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #81 on: February 08, 2018, 09:37:24 PM »
It's now 9pm Mountain time.  I'm watching Lindsay Graham (who never met a war he didn't like) going off the rails on how Congress' only job is to fund the military.  His rant can be summed up to 3 phrases which he used repeatedly: "God bless Donald Trump" "Military, military, military" and "Rand Paul is wrong."  When he says Congress he really means the Republican Party.  I'm so tired of being that party's motto.  Do we need more resources to do what we've been called on to do? Yes.  Is Graham a war hawk? Oh hell yes.  It's also just plain disgusting that he thinks shoveling money at us is Congress' primary job. His words.  There are 300 million other people who aren't working for or affiliated with the DoD who require Congress to be functional, but the DoD is apparently his only concern. 
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DarkandStormy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2018, 08:51:51 AM »
So....Dems caved again?  I'm shocked.
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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2018, 08:59:11 AM »
So....Dems caved again?  I'm shocked.
I'm not sure this is Dems caving so much as this is just an orgy of money to grease everyone's wheels.
The Dems get a big uptick in domestic spending, the GOP-hawks get their bigger military. Any claims of being 'fiscally responsible' have been washed away (on both sides) as it'l add another $320B to teh deficit over the next 10 years.

DACA gets punted, but that seemed inevitable based on previous promises to take it up in its own bill.
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A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: How will the shutdown get resolved?
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2018, 09:21:07 AM »
Yeah, I think the Dems got as good a deal as they could, but it's still pretty hilarious that they are going to shutdown govt over DACA, and then just vote a 2 year extension without DACA getting resolved.

Politicians spout a lot of bullshit, though, so same old, same old. I'm not going to hold it against Dems. Huzzah for massive deficits, in combination with the tax cut, we got a big hole.