Author Topic: How much will non-vaxxing by GOP reduce the population of voting age republicans  (Read 86601 times)

OtherJen

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5267
  • Location: Metro Detroit
It was, however, effective for a couple people to point this out: "Kate brown literally wants you to die... she wants to keep moralizing at you, knowing it will make you less likely to get the shot. Defy her actual plan and get the shot, and live to vote against her and that hack Fagan another day!"

If that works, it's awesome. Shots in arms. I'm left-of-center and want the US not to get back to a 9/11-number of COVID deaths per day (we're currently at a 9/11 death number every 1.5 days) or end up with tens of millions more people with long-term disability due to COVID. If far-right wingers think they're sticking it to people like me by getting vaxxed, I'm completely fine with that. If they live in precinct 6 in my city, I'll be happy to give them ballots in November because it means they fucking survived to cast another vote for mayor (unlike our previous mayor, who died of COVID in December).

FIPurpose

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
  • Location: ME
    • FI With Purpose
A study came out in Oregon recently. It found that Rural Oregonians would be significantly more likely to get the shot if our governor would quit moralizing those who were hesitant. In response, she said "Na, I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying."

Takeaways:
-Democrat politicians don't really care about vaccination rates. They care about power and politics. (further re-enforced by some redistricting shenanigans happening right now. #Tinamandering

-Rural Oregonians care more about defying their governor than like, living. They like to call people who got the shot "sheep," but I've seen sheep kick and fight me when I was trying to cut a rope off it's neck that was strangling it... so who's the sheep?

It was, however, effective for a couple people to point this out: "Kate brown literally wants you to die... she wants to keep moralizing at you, knowing it will make you less likely to get the shot. Defy her actual plan and get the shot, and live to vote against her and that hack Fagan another day!"

Yeah... I don't believe the people who answered this poll. This was like those large number of people saying "It doesn't have FDA approval yet!" And then moved the goal post once it was. This is just one more goal post that anti-vaxers are using. They're not even bothering to fill in the hole the posts sit in. They're just kind of keeping it stable ready to move it to the next one.
"Well, if you'd just stop moralizing about, I'd get vaxed!"
"Ok, I'll stop. So are you going to go get it?"
"Nope! *insert some other lame excuse here*"

This is unfortunately the direction the country is being forced in. GOP states have gerrymandered themselves majorities in states where they get a minority of the votes and are poised to take the House potentially with a minority vote as well. Dem held states are being forced to fight back at this. This has to be fixed at the federal level to fix state gerrymandering. (My vote is for multi-seat districts)

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
A study came out in Oregon recently. It found that Rural Oregonians would be significantly more likely to get the shot if our governor would quit moralizing those who were hesitant. In response, she said "Na, I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying."

Takeaways:
-Democrat politicians don't really care about vaccination rates. They care about power and politics. (further re-enforced by some redistricting shenanigans happening right now. #Tinamandering

As a pretty far left Oregon Democrat that voted for Kate Brown, I'm going to say that they probably care about both vaccination rates and political power.

GodlessCommie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
  • Location: NoVA
a) people who refuse to take life-saving measures and explains it by someone else being smug or patronizing are, most likely, lying.
b) 99% of the responsibility is on the right-wingers spreading anti-vax BS. 1% is on Dems not calibrating the message exactly right.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 05:14:36 PM by GodlessCommie »

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
99% of the responsibility is on the right-wingers spreading anti-vax BS

Do you remember when there were left wing anti-vaxers? Well, there still are, they just don't have a political bully pulpit. But I've interacted with more than one of them in the last year.

GodlessCommie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
  • Location: NoVA
Do you remember when there were left wing anti-vaxers? Well, there still are, they just don't have a political bully pulpit. But I've interacted with more than one of them in the last year.

Anti-vaxxer w/o a megaphone is pretty much harmless. That they exist or not is a purely academic question. But conservative radio hosts (some of whom got Herman Cain awards) and Tucker Carsons of the world - they kill people by the hundreds.

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Do you remember when there were left wing anti-vaxers? Well, there still are, they just don't have a political bully pulpit. But I've interacted with more than one of them in the last year.

Anti-vaxxer w/o a megaphone is pretty much harmless. That they exist or not is a purely academic question. But conservative radio hosts (some of whom got Herman Cain awards) and Tucker Carsons of the world - they kill people by the hundreds.

Fair enough, I don't know any left-wing anti-vax radio show hosts. But then again I don't know any left wing radio show hosts...

OtherJen

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5267
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Do you remember when there were left wing anti-vaxers? Well, there still are, they just don't have a political bully pulpit. But I've interacted with more than one of them in the last year.

Anti-vaxxer w/o a megaphone is pretty much harmless. That they exist or not is a purely academic question. But conservative radio hosts (some of whom got Herman Cain awards) and Tucker Carsons of the world - they kill people by the hundreds.

Fair enough, I don't know any left-wing anti-vax radio show hosts. But then again I don't know any left wing radio show hosts...

I think we're up to 5 big-market right-wing radio hosts who died of COVID this summer after spouting violent anti-vax rhetoric on their airwaves; Bob Enyart was the fifth, earlier this month. If I weren't an atheist, I might think that their god was pissed off.

I haven't heard that any NPR (America's socialist left wing mouthpiece) hosts have even been hospitalized with it.

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
I think we're up to 5 big-market right-wing radio hosts who died of COVID this summer after spouting violent anti-vax rhetoric on their airwaves; Bob Enyart was the fifth, earlier this month. If I weren't an atheist, I might think that their god was pissed off.

I haven't heard that any NPR (America's socialist left wing mouthpiece) hosts have even been hospitalized with it.

NPR is barely left of center. If there was a left wing equivalent to the right wing radio it would be demanding that we march in the street to cease seize the means of production. Seriously, is there anything approximating radically left wing radio?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 07:55:24 PM by PDXTabs »

PKFFW

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 707
Seriously, is there anything approximating radically left wing radio?
I realise it's been pointed out before but it bears repeating....

There isn't anything of any significance approximating radically left wing anything in the USA.

AOC is about as close as you get and she would be considered pretty stock standard left wing in any other country.

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Seriously, is there anything approximating radically left wing radio?
I realise it's been pointed out before but it bears repeating....

There isn't anything of any significance approximating radically left wing anything in the USA.

AOC is about as close as you get and she would be considered pretty stock standard left wing in any other country.

I think that MMT and the jobs guarantee in the Green New Deal does actually make her pretty radically left wing, and I say that as a card carrying member of the SNP which at least Wikipedia labels a social democracy party. So, as far as I'm concerned AOC is further left than the SNP.

But there is only one of her.

innkeeper77

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 360
NPR is barely left of center. If there was a left wing equivalent to the right wing radio it would be demanding that we march in the street to cease the means of production. Seriously, is there anything approximating radically left wing radio?

Perhaps some podcasts, such as ones by Robert Evans, and the like? However, extreme left is a much less cohesive message, with very different takes by different people and groups. Plus podcasts have much less concentrated and less devoted audiences than local right wing radio.

OtherJen

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5267
  • Location: Metro Detroit
I think we're up to 5 big-market right-wing radio hosts who died of COVID this summer after spouting violent anti-vax rhetoric on their airwaves; Bob Enyart was the fifth, earlier this month. If I weren't an atheist, I might think that their god was pissed off.

I haven't heard that any NPR (America's socialist left wing mouthpiece) hosts have even been hospitalized with it.

NPR is barely left of center. If there was a left wing equivalent to the right wing radio it would be demanding that we march in the street to cease the means of production. Seriously, is there anything approximating radically left wing radio?

I agree, but I see angry right-wing complaints about how NPR and PBS are left-wing socialist propaganda at least weekly on social media, so I figured I’d offer them up for comparison. And no, there isn’t anything far left-wing. I doubt such an effort would last long before all involved were doxxed and harassed into silence.

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
A study came out in Oregon recently. It found that Rural Oregonians would be significantly more likely to get the shot if our governor would quit moralizing those who were hesitant. In response, she said "Na, I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying."

Takeaways:
-Democrat politicians don't really care about vaccination rates. They care about power and politics. (further re-enforced by some redistricting shenanigans happening right now. #Tinamandering

-Rural Oregonians care more about defying their governor than like, living. They like to call people who got the shot "sheep," but I've seen sheep kick and fight me when I was trying to cut a rope off it's neck that was strangling it... so who's the sheep?

It was, however, effective for a couple people to point this out: "Kate brown literally wants you to die... she wants to keep moralizing at you, knowing it will make you less likely to get the shot. Defy her actual plan and get the shot, and live to vote against her and that hack Fagan another day!"

Could you provide a link to the study? I'm interested in how the questions were posed. Were you referring to the study I discuss below?

An OHSU study (not peer-reviewed) https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3886032 found that un-vaccinated Oregonians had distrust of political figures (governor, president) and all news sources in roughly equal amounts (~70%). To simplify things, I divided their categories of "Little or no trust" into "Distrust" while grouping "some trust" and "Moderate or Total Trust" into "Trust".

 Interestingly, the news source most trusted by unvaccinated respondents (some, moderate or total) was NPR (38%), followed by President Biden (32%), then Fox news (30%), then network news (29%). Of these, only Fox news does not strongly promote vaccination. For vaccinated, the most trusted was Biden and NPR, then local papers, then network news. Interestingly, Biden had the strongest moderate or total trust amongst all respondents (14% of unvaccinated and 46% of vaccinated). Distrust of Fox news was similar between vaccinated and unvaccinated (67% and 70%).

The least trusted source amongst unvaccinated was MSNBC (24%). The governor was trusted by 26% of respondents, same as talk radio.

Interestingly, unvaccinated respondents trust their friends and family members as much as their doctors (70, 67 and 69%, respectively). Luckily, 82% distrusted social media news stories and 67% distrusted their friends' social media posts.

Looking at differences in trust between unvaccinated and vaccinated, the unvaccinated were much less likely to trust the CDC (54% vs 87%), county health departments (55% vs 87%), state health department (54% vs 87%), their doctor (69% vs 96%), their religious leaders (45% vs 69%), their family, their friends, and social media. The smallest differential was in friends' social media accounts (67% vs 59%). The largest differential was their doctor (31% vs 4%).

When asked what institutions they trust in general, the only ones the majority trusted were local businesses and their church. The federal government and national companies were trusted the least (30%). Conversely, vaccinated in general trusted most institutions, but the federal government the least (62%).

So I'd say the unvaccinated are generally distrustful by nature and especially of people they have not directly interacted with.

Regarding concerns about vaccination in particular:
Concerns about side effects, speed of development and lack of concern of the effects of COVID-19 on them personally were the main reasons for hesitancy. Fear of needles and fear of infection from the vaccine were the other major ones.

Regarding factors that may convince hesitant people:
40% said there was nothing that could convince them. For those who could be, major factors were more time to see what happens and more information on the vaccine. The poll did not ask what specific information was needed, but likely side effects and efficacy were the main questions based on the other data.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 08:18:25 PM by Abe »

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
Another recent survey from the Pew research foundation (https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/09/15/majority-in-u-s-says-public-health-benefits-of-covid-19-restrictions-worth-the-costs-even-as-large-shares-also-see-downsides/) that was well done had interesting findings.

First, the methodology is important: the vast majority of respondents were recruited agnostic of COVID-19 (both in time of recruitment and reason for recruitment). The response rate was high (93%).
Vaccine rates were similar between men and women (surprising since death and hospitalization rates are 1.5-2x higher amongst men).

Asians were far more likely to have at least one vaccine dose (94% vs 76% Hispanic, 72% White and 70% Black).

Vaccine rates were related to age (86% of those 65 or older, 66% of 18-29yo) and finishing college education (81-89% vs 66-69%). Not surprisingly this translated to income level. The single biggest differences in mutable categories were Christian sect (82% of all Catholics, 73% of White non-Evangelical, and 70% of Black Protestant) and party affiliation (86% of Dem/lean Dem vs 60% of Rep/lean Rep). Though differences in vaccination rate were noted in all categories when sub-divided by party affiliation, 77% of post-graduate educated Republicans and 80% of 65+ Republicans were vaccinated.

In general, non-vaccinated people were more confused by the information given on vaccines (70% vs 50%), thought that public health officials were hiding information (80% vs 44%), and thought there was lack of data on serious side effects from the vaccines (81 vs 54%). These were clearly dependent on level of education (with post-graduates an outlier to college graduates or non-graduates).

Most striking was % agreeing to various non-vaccination measures:
Interestingly, 23% of non-vaccinated agreed that vaccines were the best way to protect Americans, 56% agreed to require masks on public transit/planes/etc, 67% agreed to restricting international travel, and 49%
agreed to avoiding large gatherings. The majority of Republicans supported all of these measures (including vaccination - 60% were vaccinated).

What to make of all this data? My interpretation is:

1) A subset of unvaccinated people can change their mind given sufficient time and a very clear explanation of the risks associated with vaccines. They agree with non-vaccination measures due to the very low risk. This opinion change will be mostly through friends and family who get vaccinated and end up fine, since other sources are highly distrusted.

2) A subset will not change their mind regardless of data presentation and others' efforts. They do not view the pandemic as a serious threat, and are unwilling to take even basic measures to mitigate it.

It's incumbent on us as as society to figure out who's in what category, and put our energies into convincing those in the first one.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8822
  • Location: Avalon
[...]

Interestingly, unvaccinated respondents trust their friends and family members as much as their doctors (70, 67 and 69%, respectively).

Luckily, 82% distrusted social media news stories and 67% distrusted their friends' social media posts.

[...]
So I'd say the unvaccinated are generally distrustful by nature and especially of people they have not directly interacted with.

It's a few years since I looked at Facebook but I'm finding a reported gap of nearly 50% in these figures difficult to believe.  As I recall Facebook presents a screen where everything is pretty much jumbled up and a post from a friend or family member and a "news" story are next to each other in similar formats.  Do most readers of Facebook really discriminate that clearly when scrolling through?

And do these people believe a news story that comes up in a friend or family member's timeline or not?  If someone says "saw this news story about vaccines not being safe" what does the poll receiver believe about that?  "I believe my friend when they post about their day but not when they post about vaccines?" Really?

I think by now most people have heard that there are problems with social media news feeds and will spout the line that they don't believe them but they still see them and it's hard not to be affected by something seen so often.  There's are billion dollar advertising businesses built on our being affected by things seen so often.

talltexan

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5344
A study came out in Oregon recently. It found that Rural Oregonians would be significantly more likely to get the shot if our governor would quit moralizing those who were hesitant. In response, she said "Na, I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying."

Takeaways:
-Democrat politicians don't really care about vaccination rates. They care about power and politics. (further re-enforced by some redistricting shenanigans happening right now. #Tinamandering

As a pretty far left Oregon Democrat that voted for Kate Brown, I'm going to say that they probably care about both vaccination rates and political power.

I completely sympathize with people who just cynically throw their hands up and declare that all politicians "simply are seeking power."

But once a politician is granted public trust, there are moments when that politician can damage our public. In the case of COVID, poor public policy can cause people physical harm and death. In the case of other issues, poor policy weakens the institutions on which our liberty and self-government rest.

And some politicians expose themselves as being willing to trade a lot of damage to these in exchange for increasing their own power. We need to identify such politicians and criticize them relentlessly until their power is given to others.

FIPurpose

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
  • Location: ME
    • FI With Purpose
NPR is barely left of center. If there was a left wing equivalent to the right wing radio it would be demanding that we march in the street to cease the means of production. Seriously, is there anything approximating radically left wing radio?

Perhaps some podcasts, such as ones by Robert Evans, and the like? However, extreme left is a much less cohesive message, with very different takes by different people and groups. Plus podcasts have much less concentrated and less devoted audiences than local right wing radio.

Yeah, you have lefty YouTubers like David Pakman, Kyle Kulinski, The Majority Report, TYT, etc are probably the closest you can get. But a big difference between the left and right here is that the right is paying giant think-tanks that then disseminate talking points to all of their major platforms and speakers. That's at least partially why you hear the exact same phrases every week coming out of the mouths of Sean Hannity, Ben Shapiro, Praeger, Levin, etc. They are all getting the exact same talking points and they all cover the exact same stories and apply the exact same spin.

The left shows however care deeply about being ideologically pure and making sure you understand the nuances of their opinions and don't mind debating each other. They're political opinions are more cohesive than right-wing radio's reactionary takes, but it leaves the left-wing a bit neutered politically because they don't have this large army of left commentators all beating the same drum to more effectively drive a bloc of listeners to the polls. You just have a fuzzy collection of commentators that more or less align politically behind someone like Bernie or AOC, but you'd also hear them disagreeing out loud with these same politicians in certain facets. (Which might leave a listener of multiple lefty programs confused or frustrated at the very left figures left YouTube is trying to promote)

For example, the last election, you would hear on right-wing radio about how Biden would be the end of our country, and that he would bring in a new era a socialism. But on left YouTube, it was more like "Yeah, Biden obviously isn't that great of a pick. But he's the better of the 2 choices." One is obviously more effective at driving votes than the other, but one is also more obviously hyperbolic drivel.

EvenSteven

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
  • Location: St. Louis
A study came out in Oregon recently. It found that Rural Oregonians would be significantly more likely to get the shot if our governor would quit moralizing those who were hesitant. In response, she said "Na, I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying."

Takeaways:
-Democrat politicians don't really care about vaccination rates. They care about power and politics. (further re-enforced by some redistricting shenanigans happening right now. #Tinamandering

As a pretty far left Oregon Democrat that voted for Kate Brown, I'm going to say that they probably care about both vaccination rates and political power.

I completely sympathize with people who just cynically throw their hands up and declare that all politicians "simply are seeking power."

But once a politician is granted public trust, there are moments when that politician can damage our public. In the case of COVID, poor public policy can cause people physical harm and death. In the case of other issues, poor policy weakens the institutions on which our liberty and self-government rest.

And some politicians expose themselves as being willing to trade a lot of damage to these in exchange for increasing their own power. We need to identify such politicians and criticize them relentlessly until their power is given to others.

Are you talking about the Governor of Oregon here? What should she do, pretend to be an anti-vaxxer nut in order to reverse psychology trick rural conservatives into getting the vaccine? At some point the party of personal responsibility needs to take some personal responsibility.

Davnasty

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2793
A study came out in Oregon recently. It found that Rural Oregonians would be significantly more likely to get the shot if our governor would quit moralizing those who were hesitant. In response, she said "Na, I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying."

Can you provide the study you're referring to here? I haven't been able to find it.

ncornilsen

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
A study came out in Oregon recently. It found that Rural Oregonians would be significantly more likely to get the shot if our governor would quit moralizing those who were hesitant. In response, she said "Na, I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying."

Can you provide the study you're referring to here? I haven't been able to find it.

It's behind a paywall, but here it is:

https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2021/07/researchers-urge-gov-kate-brown-to-stop-promoting-vaccines-saying-she-is-the-least-trusted-messenger-for-hesitant-oregonians.html


Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7335


Here is the text:

Gov. Kate Brown should stop urging Oregonians to get vaccinated against COVID-19 because she is the “least trusted” figure for unvaccinated individuals and could be undercutting the state’s efforts to reach herd immunity, according to new survey results released Tuesday.

In recommendations for how the state could further boost vaccinations, researchers at the University of Oregon’s Institute for Policy Research and Engagement were blunt: “less Gov. Brown.”


“Gov. Brown is a polarizing figure for unvaccinated individuals,” wrote Benjamin Clark and Robert Parker, respectively the co-executive director and the director of strategy and technical solutions at the institute. “We would recommend that (the governor) defer being the primary messenger to unvaccinated Oregonians.”

Brown made Oregon’s COVID-19 response the focal point of her governorship over the last year and she has urged people to get shots in weekly pandemic-focused online media briefings. In May, she announced the state would offer a $1 million lottery and other prizes for vaccinated Oregonians and last week, Brown held a photo op with the winner.

The survey, which included 686 Oregonians and took place from late May through the end of June, found that unvaccinated Oregonians’ own doctors are the most trusted messengers, followed by family and friends. Clark and Parker recommended that state and local government agencies do more to help medical providers do outreach to patients on vaccines and they also suggested those governments produce guides for the general public on “how to talk to your unvaccinated friends and family about getting vaccinated.”


The governor is a Democrat and the University of Oregon researchers noted that 41% of Republican survey respondents said they were unvaccinated and 48% of non-affiliated voters who answered the survey said they were unvaccinated. In contrast, only 13% of Democrats who participated in the survey said they were still unvaccinated.

Brown declined through a spokesperson to respond to the findings. The spokesperson, deputy communications director Charles Boyle, indicated the governor will not change her messaging or other work regarding COVID-19 vaccinations.

Five of the researchers’ other recommendations also focused on getting information to a wary or misinformed public, including that vaccines are free and that unvaccinated people make up the bulk of those still getting sick and hospitalized with COVID-19.

They also suggested health agencies apply research on effective messaging when trying to educate the public and enhance those efforts by going to door-to-door -- resource-intensive work that they said could be the only option for additional conversions.

But the university’s first recommendation was far less nuanced. Instead of winning hearts and minds with data, the researchers suggested health officials offer $100 cash.

Such an incentive, their research found, could convince one in five of those who say they won’t get vaccinated, and one in three who say they might.

“This is the most accessible and most direct path to Yes for these individuals,” they wrote.

Unvaccinated survey respondents said a $100 bill or cash card would be twice as persuasive as a $1 million lottery to get them to get their shot.

Clark and Parker said the state could better tailor its financial incentives to get the most bang for the buck. They noted Oregon is starting to pay $100 incentives to state workers vaccinated by the end of July, although approximately 80% of public workers in the state are already vaccinated. In contrast, less than 50% of self-employed Oregonians are vaccinated and nearly 70% of employees at family-owned businesses remain unvaccinated, they wrote.

-- Hillary Borrud; hborrud@Oregonian.com; @hborrud

-- Fedor Zarkhin


jrhampt

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Connecticut
A study came out in Oregon recently. It found that Rural Oregonians would be significantly more likely to get the shot if our governor would quit moralizing those who were hesitant. In response, she said "Na, I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying."

Takeaways:
-Democrat politicians don't really care about vaccination rates. They care about power and politics. (further re-enforced by some redistricting shenanigans happening right now. #Tinamandering

As a pretty far left Oregon Democrat that voted for Kate Brown, I'm going to say that they probably care about both vaccination rates and political power.

I completely sympathize with people who just cynically throw their hands up and declare that all politicians "simply are seeking power."

But once a politician is granted public trust, there are moments when that politician can damage our public. In the case of COVID, poor public policy can cause people physical harm and death. In the case of other issues, poor policy weakens the institutions on which our liberty and self-government rest.

And some politicians expose themselves as being willing to trade a lot of damage to these in exchange for increasing their own power. We need to identify such politicians and criticize them relentlessly until their power is given to others.

Are you talking about the Governor of Oregon here? What should she do, pretend to be an anti-vaxxer nut in order to reverse psychology trick rural conservatives into getting the vaccine? At some point the party of personal responsibility needs to take some personal responsibility.

Right??? 

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23128
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Here is the text:

Gov. Kate Brown should stop urging Oregonians to get vaccinated against COVID-19 because she is the “least trusted” figure for unvaccinated individuals and could be undercutting the state’s efforts to reach herd immunity, according to new survey results released Tuesday.

In recommendations for how the state could further boost vaccinations, researchers at the University of Oregon’s Institute for Policy Research and Engagement were blunt: “less Gov. Brown.”


“Gov. Brown is a polarizing figure for unvaccinated individuals,” wrote Benjamin Clark and Robert Parker, respectively the co-executive director and the director of strategy and technical solutions at the institute. “We would recommend that (the governor) defer being the primary messenger to unvaccinated Oregonians.”

Brown made Oregon’s COVID-19 response the focal point of her governorship over the last year and she has urged people to get shots in weekly pandemic-focused online media briefings. In May, she announced the state would offer a $1 million lottery and other prizes for vaccinated Oregonians and last week, Brown held a photo op with the winner.

The survey, which included 686 Oregonians and took place from late May through the end of June, found that unvaccinated Oregonians’ own doctors are the most trusted messengers, followed by family and friends. Clark and Parker recommended that state and local government agencies do more to help medical providers do outreach to patients on vaccines and they also suggested those governments produce guides for the general public on “how to talk to your unvaccinated friends and family about getting vaccinated.”


The governor is a Democrat and the University of Oregon researchers noted that 41% of Republican survey respondents said they were unvaccinated and 48% of non-affiliated voters who answered the survey said they were unvaccinated. In contrast, only 13% of Democrats who participated in the survey said they were still unvaccinated.

Brown declined through a spokesperson to respond to the findings. The spokesperson, deputy communications director Charles Boyle, indicated the governor will not change her messaging or other work regarding COVID-19 vaccinations.

Five of the researchers’ other recommendations also focused on getting information to a wary or misinformed public, including that vaccines are free and that unvaccinated people make up the bulk of those still getting sick and hospitalized with COVID-19.

They also suggested health agencies apply research on effective messaging when trying to educate the public and enhance those efforts by going to door-to-door -- resource-intensive work that they said could be the only option for additional conversions.

But the university’s first recommendation was far less nuanced. Instead of winning hearts and minds with data, the researchers suggested health officials offer $100 cash.

Such an incentive, their research found, could convince one in five of those who say they won’t get vaccinated, and one in three who say they might.

“This is the most accessible and most direct path to Yes for these individuals,” they wrote.

Unvaccinated survey respondents said a $100 bill or cash card would be twice as persuasive as a $1 million lottery to get them to get their shot.

Clark and Parker said the state could better tailor its financial incentives to get the most bang for the buck. They noted Oregon is starting to pay $100 incentives to state workers vaccinated by the end of July, although approximately 80% of public workers in the state are already vaccinated. In contrast, less than 50% of self-employed Oregonians are vaccinated and nearly 70% of employees at family-owned businesses remain unvaccinated, they wrote.

-- Hillary Borrud; hborrud@Oregonian.com; @hborrud

-- Fedor Zarkhin

Here is the full study:  https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=910024021106116092094103078109099126039006020032019035067003090010126081094065074007039055026029057040105066025117117094068087119055089076076126103098069084069010022053043024097117006123066065114117102093086014114068093000021122127086002097096086081&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE

If that link doesn't work, you can try here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3886032


The study didn't say anything at all about "moralizing".  It has three recommendations to increase vaccination rates:

Recommendation 1:
More Cash Incentives
A $100 cash or debit card incentive appears to be the most straightforward way to encourage the unvaccinated to change their minds. While this incentive may only provide a nudge to a fifth of those with no plans to vaccinate—this is the most accessible and most direct path to Yes for these individuals. For people in the ‘may’ vaccinate camp, this incentive would make up to one third more likely to vaccinate. Governor Brown, OHA, and others should find ways to implement such a program across the state (and emulate a successful effort seen in the Portland metro area).

Recommendation 2:
Less Gov. Brown
For unvaccinated Oregonians, Gov. Brown is the least trusted figure for information on COVID-19. We would recommend not using the governor as a spokesperson for messaging around  vaccination moving forward. Instead, we need to make trusted doctors and healthcare providers the
messengers. However, many of these practices are small and underresourced, particularly in rural parts
of the state. OHA and local public health agencies need to strategically support these providers with
materials that are not branded by the state or local agency (as they are also not trusted by the unvaccinated)— but rather by the provider. While most medical providers are already doing outreach to their patients, additional work is needed to increase support to these providers and their messaging. State and local officials should provide financial and human capital supportive measures to help medical practices in outreach work beyond information.

Recommendation 3:
Free Vaccination Info
Despite informational campaigns to assure people the vaccine is free, for many vaccine-hesitant Oregonians
there is continued concerns over the cost. OHA and other need to continue to drive the message home
that there is no cost to get vaccinated.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 11:55:48 AM by GuitarStv »

talltexan

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5344
At the national level, instead of having elected officials like Donald Trump talk about COVID, we should have career professionals like Anthony Fauci give advice. There isn't a chance that people will start mistrusting Fauci, right?

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23128
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647

The study didn't say anything at all about "moralizing".  It has three recommendations to increase vaccination rates:

Recommendation 1:
More Cash Incentives
A $100 cash or debit card incentive appears to be the most straightforward way to encourage the unvaccinated to change their minds. While this incentive may only provide a nudge to a fifth of those with no plans to vaccinate—this is the most accessible and most direct path to Yes for these individuals. For people in the ‘may’ vaccinate camp, this incentive would make up to one third more likely to vaccinate. Governor Brown, OHA, and others should find ways to implement such a program across the state (and emulate a successful effort seen in the Portland metro area).

Harris county (Houston and suburbs) started offering $100 incentive for vaccination and saw a sharp uptick in first-dose vaccinations (initially 6x increase or about 2400 per day). This has slowed somewhat but remains much higher than before the incentive.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 03:36:14 PM by Abe »

GodlessCommie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 969
  • Location: NoVA
I'm sure @talltexan was sarcastic.

Distrust (in Fauci or Gov. Brown) is not a naturally occurring phenomena. It's a result of coordinated work of the right-wing media ecosystem. If another pro-vax spokesperson appears in Oregon, he or she will be tarred and feathered just the same, and will quickly join the ranks of the mistrusted.

Also, I would take at least some responses with a grain of salt. Getting your news from social media has a (well-deserved) stigma. I'm pretty sure it is under-reported.

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Also, I would take at least some responses with a grain of salt. Getting your news from social media has a (well-deserved) stigma. I'm pretty sure it is under-reported.

Speaking of which, I follow the BBC and the Economist on Facebook. If someone in a survey asks if I get news through social media, I'm going to say "yes." It's a really ambiguous question.

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
I'm not sure that I should admit to having had read this, but: Breitbart: Nolte: Howard Stern Proves Democrats Want Unvaccinated Trump Voters Dead.

It includes this gem:

Final note: How many of you were aware the CDC believes that 99.5 percent of those dying are unvaccinated? I bet not many of you. So why would the metric that is the most convincing one not be all over the place? Once you learn that 99.5 percent of deaths are unvaccinated, it cuts through all the muck. That number is startling, an eye-opener… Forget cases, forget mandates, forget masks, and Howard Stern… When you learn that almost everyone dying is unvaccinated, that’s a come to Jesus moment.

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
ummm…is this one of those ads that say “one trick doctors don’t want you to know about?”  Otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

sonofsven

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2026
I'm not sure that I should admit to having had read this, but: Breitbart: Nolte: Howard Stern Proves Democrats Want Unvaccinated Trump Voters Dead.

It includes this gem:

Final note: How many of you were aware the CDC believes that 99.5 percent of those dying are unvaccinated? I bet not many of you. So why would the metric that is the most convincing one not be all over the place? Once you learn that 99.5 percent of deaths are unvaccinated, it cuts through all the muck. That number is startling, an eye-opener… Forget cases, forget mandates, forget masks, and Howard Stern… When you learn that almost everyone dying is unvaccinated, that’s a come to Jesus moment.

That is hilarious. Talk about pretzel logic. "Look what you mean libs made me do to myself!"

DadJokes

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2360
I'm not sure that I should admit to having had read this, but: Breitbart: Nolte: Howard Stern Proves Democrats Want Unvaccinated Trump Voters Dead.

It includes this gem:

Final note: How many of you were aware the CDC believes that 99.5 percent of those dying are unvaccinated? I bet not many of you. So why would the metric that is the most convincing one not be all over the place? Once you learn that 99.5 percent of deaths are unvaccinated, it cuts through all the muck. That number is startling, an eye-opener… Forget cases, forget mandates, forget masks, and Howard Stern… When you learn that almost everyone dying is unvaccinated, that’s a come to Jesus moment.

If people are unaware that almost all of the covid-related deaths are unvaccinated, then I don't know what to say. I don't follow the news at all, and I'm aware of that fact.

LennStar

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3681
  • Location: Germany
I'm not sure that I should admit to having had read this, but: Breitbart: Nolte: Howard Stern Proves Democrats Want Unvaccinated Trump Voters Dead.

It includes this gem:

Final note: How many of you were aware the CDC believes that 99.5 percent of those dying are unvaccinated? I bet not many of you. So why would the metric that is the most convincing one not be all over the place? Once you learn that 99.5 percent of deaths are unvaccinated, it cuts through all the muck. That number is startling, an eye-opener… Forget cases, forget mandates, forget masks, and Howard Stern… When you learn that almost everyone dying is unvaccinated, that’s a come to Jesus moment.

If people are unaware that almost all of the covid-related deaths are unvaccinated, then I don't know what to say. I don't follow the news at all, and I'm aware of that fact.
And I thought the current train of stupid was "half of the people dying in the hospital are vaccinated, the vaccine does not work", which holds up at least for 5 seconds thought until you remember that the majority (at least in Europe) is fully vaccinated and the most vulnerable people are vaccinated the most, so naturally for everyone not vaccinated who gets Covid-hospitalized there are about 10 vaccinated people who get it and not get hospitalized, which turns out to be the quote promised by the vaccine makers.

jrhampt

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Connecticut
My unvaccinated parents have been sick with covid and on oxygen at home for the past 3 weeks because the hospitals are full and aren't admitting any more covid patients.  My mom has pneumonia and can't walk, and her oxygen has dropped down into the 60s.  There's a mobile morgue at use in their local hospital.  Their hospital spokesperson said that hospitalizations declined by 20 over the weekend but only because people died.

seattlecyclone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7254
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • My blog
I'm not sure that I should admit to having had read this, but: Breitbart: Nolte: Howard Stern Proves Democrats Want Unvaccinated Trump Voters Dead.

It includes this gem:

Final note: How many of you were aware the CDC believes that 99.5 percent of those dying are unvaccinated? I bet not many of you. So why would the metric that is the most convincing one not be all over the place? Once you learn that 99.5 percent of deaths are unvaccinated, it cuts through all the muck. That number is startling, an eye-opener… Forget cases, forget mandates, forget masks, and Howard Stern… When you learn that almost everyone dying is unvaccinated, that’s a come to Jesus moment.

That is hilarious. Talk about pretzel logic. "Look what you mean libs made me do to myself!"

Exactly. "Here's this important fact! You should know this fact! Now I'll try to convince you that this fact generally hasn't come to light. You might even believe me if you only listen to right-wing media."

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8822
  • Location: Avalon
My unvaccinated parents have been sick with covid and on oxygen at home for the past 3 weeks because the hospitals are full and aren't admitting any more covid patients.  My mom has pneumonia and can't walk, and her oxygen has dropped down into the 60s.  There's a mobile morgue at use in their local hospital.  Their hospital spokesperson said that hospitalizations declined by 20 over the weekend but only because people died.
I'm sorry.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8822
  • Location: Avalon
Life expectancy for men in the USA is down by 2.2 years because of covid-19 -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58659717

Relatively speaking it wasn't that great anyway.  Shitty health system, right?

oldladystache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
  • Age: 79
  • Location: coastal southern california
I don't doubt that the majority of people dying from it are unvaccinated, but I haven't seem any statistics. Anyone know where to find them?

DadJokes

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2360
I don't doubt that the majority of people dying from it are unvaccinated, but I haven't seem any statistics. Anyone know where to find them?

I don't have the actual death numbers, but the local hospital posts the hospitalization comparisons. Here was their post for the week ending 9/18:

Hospitalized
U: 144
V: 20

ICU
U: 32
V: 4

Ventilated
U: 14
V: 0

U = Unvaccinated or not yet fully vaccinated
V = Fully vaccinated

I think the fact that unvaxxed are dying at a significantly higher rate can be inferred pretty easily from that information.

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA

sui generis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3104
  • she/her
My unvaccinated parents have been sick with covid and on oxygen at home for the past 3 weeks because the hospitals are full and aren't admitting any more covid patients.  My mom has pneumonia and can't walk, and her oxygen has dropped down into the 60s.  There's a mobile morgue at use in their local hospital.  Their hospital spokesperson said that hospitalizations declined by 20 over the weekend but only because people died.

I'm so sorry. It's unusual (though obviously not unheard of) for older folks to be unvaccinated, even if they are politically conservative. It's just so risky. I am glad they are able to be out of the hospital for now and I hope they hang in there and get better.

SunnyDays

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3489
My province reports:
- of 912,200 people fully immunized, there are 728 infections and 16 deaths.
- of 986,054 people partially immunized (one shot), there are 2215 infections and 45 deaths.

Further:
Of those in hospital with Covid, 69% are unvaccinated; 11% are partially vaccinated and 20% are vaccinated.  There are no fully vaccinated people in ICU.

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
Life expectancy for men in the USA is down by 2.2 years because of covid-19 -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58659717

Relatively speaking it wasn't that great anyway.  Shitty health system, right?

Pretty good to average health system, shitty lifestyle choices. It is really hard to fix 50 years of eating unhealthy food that’s enveloped your organs in several inches of pro-inflammatory fat and infiltrated the liver to the point it can’t filter toxins properly.  Then the pancreas starts to fail and the glucose coats various cells and makes them malfunction. There’s also the agribusinesses and junk food industries promoting that garbage. Not even the vaunted UK NHS can fix that.

Sorry if I sound bitter / victim blaming. Just spent 8 hours wading through said fat to take out a tumor the size of a baseball.if that patient has a complication and dies as a result (extremely rare but have to use some example) it’d look like poor surgery even though risk of all severe complications is directly associated with (if not caused by) obesity. This is especially relevant for covid because death is so strongly related to obesity for both mechanical and physiologic reasons. We’re busting our asses to take care of people who just don’t care about their health. Yeah it’s hard to get vegetable and fruits in some areas, etc but it’s not because we haven’t developed the technology to transport them cheaply, it’s just that demand is not strong in many areas.

Access to good healthcare is an issue in rural areas for many reasons, not the least of which again is lack of demand and interest. Until shit hits the fan and everyone wants an ECMO-capable ICU in their backyard. It’s a macabre Monty Python skit, honestly.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 07:25:28 PM by Abe »

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
I don't doubt that the majority of people dying from it are unvaccinated, but I haven't seem any statistics. Anyone know where to find them?

Ask and ye shall receive:

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
It is really hard to fix 50 years of eating unhealthy food that’s enveloped your organs in several inches of pro-inflammatory fat and infiltrated the liver to the point it can’t filter toxins properly.  Then the pancreas starts to fail and the glucose coats various cells and makes them malfunction. There’s also the agribusinesses and junk food industries promoting that garbage. Not even the vaunted UK NHS can fix that.
...
We’re busting our asses to take care of people who just don’t care about their health. Yeah it’s hard to get vegetable and fruits in some areas, etc but it’s not because we haven’t developed the technology to transport them cheaply, it’s just that demand is not strong in many areas.

I am not a medical professional but I came to similar conclusions on my own.

With that said, at no point in time have any of my doctors told me this. It was all me "doing my own research."

Also, look at what kids are fed in school. Look at the vending machines and the Taco Bells. The industrial complex created this mess for profit. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that they created demand for our expensive healthcare system.

Abe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2647
It is really hard to fix 50 years of eating unhealthy food that’s enveloped your organs in several inches of pro-inflammatory fat and infiltrated the liver to the point it can’t filter toxins properly.  Then the pancreas starts to fail and the glucose coats various cells and makes them malfunction. There’s also the agribusinesses and junk food industries promoting that garbage. Not even the vaunted UK NHS can fix that.
...
We’re busting our asses to take care of people who just don’t care about their health. Yeah it’s hard to get vegetable and fruits in some areas, etc but it’s not because we haven’t developed the technology to transport them cheaply, it’s just that demand is not strong in many areas.

I am not a medical professional but I came to similar conclusions on my own.

With that said, at no point in time have any of my doctors told me this. It was all me "doing my own research."

Also, look at what kids are fed in school. Look at the vending machines and the Taco Bells. The industrial complex created this mess for profit. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that they created demand for our expensive healthcare system.

Oh for sure. Perfect example of expensive externalities. But in some areas if you don’t eat a bunch of meat every day, people look at you like you’re going to die of anemia.

bacchi

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7056
It is really hard to fix 50 years of eating unhealthy food that’s enveloped your organs in several inches of pro-inflammatory fat and infiltrated the liver to the point it can’t filter toxins properly.  Then the pancreas starts to fail and the glucose coats various cells and makes them malfunction. There’s also the agribusinesses and junk food industries promoting that garbage. Not even the vaunted UK NHS can fix that.
...
We’re busting our asses to take care of people who just don’t care about their health. Yeah it’s hard to get vegetable and fruits in some areas, etc but it’s not because we haven’t developed the technology to transport them cheaply, it’s just that demand is not strong in many areas.

I am not a medical professional but I came to similar conclusions on my own.

With that said, at no point in time have any of my doctors told me this. It was all me "doing my own research."

Also, look at what kids are fed in school. Look at the vending machines and the Taco Bells. The industrial complex created this mess for profit. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that they created demand for our expensive healthcare system.

Oh for sure. Perfect example of expensive externalities. But in some areas if you don’t eat a bunch of meat every day, people look at you like you’re going to die of anemia.

"You don't eat meat? But how do you get protein?"

oldladystache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
  • Age: 79
  • Location: coastal southern california
I don't doubt that the majority of people dying from it are unvaccinated, but I haven't seem any statistics. Anyone know where to find them?

Ask and ye shall receive:

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/

Thank you. Exactly what I needed.

LennStar

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3681
  • Location: Germany
It is really hard to fix 50 years of eating unhealthy food that’s enveloped your organs in several inches of pro-inflammatory fat and infiltrated the liver to the point it can’t filter toxins properly.  Then the pancreas starts to fail and the glucose coats various cells and makes them malfunction. There’s also the agribusinesses and junk food industries promoting that garbage. Not even the vaunted UK NHS can fix that.
...
We’re busting our asses to take care of people who just don’t care about their health. Yeah it’s hard to get vegetable and fruits in some areas, etc but it’s not because we haven’t developed the technology to transport them cheaply, it’s just that demand is not strong in many areas.

I am not a medical professional but I came to similar conclusions on my own.

With that said, at no point in time have any of my doctors told me this. It was all me "doing my own research."

Also, look at what kids are fed in school. Look at the vending machines and the Taco Bells. The industrial complex created this mess for profit. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that they created demand for our expensive healthcare system.
One of my favorite movie scenes is from the propaganda movie "Where to invade next" when the fat American shows French school children what their age gets to eat at school in the US.