How much will non-vaxxing by GOP reduce the population of voting age republicans

[Metalcat]

I got my second shot on saturday and was completely floored sunday, bad monday and today is "a bit fever but mostly okay".
As far as I read and heard experience from relatives, that is about average.

Will that mean that we will have to get a shot each year, with one third of the people being downed for two or three days every year? That would be... very uncomfortable. And maybe lead to people not getting the vaccine anymore?

That's an interesting question.

Feeling sick after getting one of these shots is very common.  My wife had powerful headaches for eight days after getting her first shot - a bunch of tests were done, and our doctor believes it was a reaction to the shot.  I was surprised how bad the shot made me feel, with something like the flu shot I don't feel any difference at all.  Does anyone know about the likelihood of there being significant side effects for booster shots going forward?

I would guess that it will just get incorporated into the annual flu shot, the way H1N1 was. And we all know that the rate of people who get their annual flu shot is already very low.

[GuitarStv]

I got my second shot on saturday and was completely floored sunday, bad monday and today is "a bit fever but mostly okay".
As far as I read and heard experience from relatives, that is about average.

Will that mean that we will have to get a shot each year, with one third of the people being downed for two or three days every year? That would be... very uncomfortable. And maybe lead to people not getting the vaccine anymore?

That's an interesting question.

Feeling sick after getting one of these shots is very common.  My wife had powerful headaches for eight days after getting her first shot - a bunch of tests were done, and our doctor believes it was a reaction to the shot.  I was surprised how bad the shot made me feel, with something like the flu shot I don't feel any difference at all.  Does anyone know about the likelihood of there being significant side effects for booster shots going forward?

I would guess that it will just get incorporated into the annual flu shot, the way H1N1 was. And we all know that the rate of people who get their annual flu shot is already very low.

I get my flu shot every year (except 2020 - didn't seem necessary as I wasn't around any people) and have never needed to take a day off work after getting the shot.  It's hard to imagine that more people will get the flu shot if it continues to do that.

[ixtap]

I got my second shot on saturday and was completely floored sunday, bad monday and today is "a bit fever but mostly okay".
As far as I read and heard experience from relatives, that is about average.

Will that mean that we will have to get a shot each year, with one third of the people being downed for two or three days every year? That would be... very uncomfortable. And maybe lead to people not getting the vaccine anymore?

That's an interesting question.

Feeling sick after getting one of these shots is very common.  My wife had powerful headaches for eight days after getting her first shot - a bunch of tests were done, and our doctor believes it was a reaction to the shot.  I was surprised how bad the shot made me feel, with something like the flu shot I don't feel any difference at all.  Does anyone know about the likelihood of there being significant side effects for booster shots going forward?

I would guess that it will just get incorporated into the annual flu shot, the way H1N1 was. And we all know that the rate of people who get their annual flu shot is already very low.

Except that H1N1 is a flu. We certainly do have multi vaccines, such as MMR, but this is the first I have heard of combining flu and COVID, especially given that there are COVID specific ant vac campaigns.

[Metalcat]

I got my second shot on saturday and was completely floored sunday, bad monday and today is "a bit fever but mostly okay".
As far as I read and heard experience from relatives, that is about average.

Will that mean that we will have to get a shot each year, with one third of the people being downed for two or three days every year? That would be... very uncomfortable. And maybe lead to people not getting the vaccine anymore?

That's an interesting question.

Feeling sick after getting one of these shots is very common.  My wife had powerful headaches for eight days after getting her first shot - a bunch of tests were done, and our doctor believes it was a reaction to the shot.  I was surprised how bad the shot made me feel, with something like the flu shot I don't feel any difference at all.  Does anyone know about the likelihood of there being significant side effects for booster shots going forward?

I would guess that it will just get incorporated into the annual flu shot, the way H1N1 was. And we all know that the rate of people who get their annual flu shot is already very low.

I get my flu shot every year (except 2020 - didn't seem necessary as I wasn't around any people) and have never needed to take a day off work after getting the shot.  It's hard to imagine that more people will get the flu shot if it continues to do that.

Another anecdote: I get very ill after my annual flu shot, and it's never stopped me from getting it.

My point was that even though the regular flu shot rarely makes people ill the way it does for me, the uptake is still abysmally poor. So yes, if the covid vaccine continues to cause ongoing illness in a lot of people, it may deter some of them from getting it, but people are already bad at getting annual flu shots anyway.

Maybe the side effects from the vaccine will level off over time, maybe they won't. Maybe the virus will chill out over time in severity like H1N1 did, and maybe it won't.

At the end of the day, it will all come down to level of motivation vs inconvenience of getting a shot. If the virus remains high in morbidity and mortality, more people will continue getting boosters, if it doesn't fewer people will. Whatever happens, there will be some sort of equilibrium in the end, the same way there was after H1N1.

[Paul der Krake]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

[ncornilsen]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

[Paul der Krake]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

You don't have to force them, just make it a requirement to do anything in society. If they want to go back to being hunter gatherers in the woods, good luck have fun. Kinda like we force people to wear clothes in public.

[FIPurpose]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

You don't have to force them, just make it a requirement to do anything in society. If they want to go back to being hunter gatherers in the woods, good luck have fun. Kinda like we force people to wear clothes in public.

Force people to wear clothes! I don't know... sounds like we should equivocate that with fascism to scare people into voting for lower taxes for rich people.

[GuitarStv]

[ftp][/ftp]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

You don't have to force them, just make it a requirement to do anything in society. If they want to go back to being hunter gatherers in the woods, good luck have fun. Kinda like we force people to wear clothes in public.

Force people to wear clothes! I don't know... sounds like we should equivocate that with fascism to scare people into voting for lower taxes for rich people.

No shirts.  No shoes.  No freedom.

[PDXTabs]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

You don't have to force them, just make it a requirement to do anything in society. If they want to go back to being hunter gatherers in the woods, good luck have fun. Kinda like we force people to wear clothes in public.

Not where I live. Of course you can't go into a restaurant naked. Which may have been your point.

[SunnyDays]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

You don't have to force them, just make it a requirement to do anything in society. If they want to go back to being hunter gatherers in the woods, good luck have fun. Kinda like we force people to wear clothes in public.

My anti-vaxxer friend is sort of planning exactly that.  Going to go off-grid remotely if the government tries to take away her freedom of choice.   But she's willing to give up the freedom to have a job, running water, electricity, convenient food and all the amenities of modern life.  That's quite the trade-off.  Of course, the gov't won't have to do such a thing, because individual businesses will do it instead.

[Metalcat]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

You don't have to force them, just make it a requirement to do anything in society. If they want to go back to being hunter gatherers in the woods, good luck have fun. Kinda like we force people to wear clothes in public.

My anti-vaxxer friend is sort of planning exactly that.  Going to go off-grid remotely if the government tries to take away her freedom of choice.   But she's willing to give up the freedom to have a job, running water, electricity, convenient food and all the amenities of modern life.  That's quite the trade-off.  Of course, the gov't won't have to do such a thing, because individual businesses will do it instead.

I wonder how many people will follow through on this kind of thing, or if it will end up like all the people who said they would move to Canada if Trump won.

Most people can barely bring themselves to leave a job they hate, much less totally upend their entire lives.

[Paul der Krake]

Almost none of them will. Take away their paychecks and their toys and they will cave.

Call their bluff. Offer extremely narrow exceptions, then just do it. Fire the transit employees. Fire the nurses. Fire the teachers. They will all cave if the political leaders show that they are serious.

[Mr. Green]

I just saw something this morning that Florida now has more COVID deaths that DeSantis' margin of victory. I'm sure not everyone who had died voted for him but as the number of deaths creeps up there you gotta wonder.

[OtherJen]

Almost none of them will. Take away their paychecks and their toys and they will cave.

Call their bluff. Offer extremely narrow exceptions, then just do it. Fire the transit employees. Fire the nurses. Fire the teachers. They will all cave if the political leaders show that they are serious.

Private employers are already doing this. Seems fair to me. People have the choice whether to keep their jobs or find other employment.

[nereo]

Where did people get this notion that the Constitution and our Founding Fathers gave them the right to do whatever the F__ they want. This seems to be a pervasive belief, particularly in some conservative and libertarian circles.

There is no Right enshrined in the constitution so absolute that reasonable limitations cannot be placed upon it, and we have 240 years of case law and legislation to prove it.

THe people who shout “…but Freedom!” Seem to be the ones who understand our government the least.

[Paul der Krake]

Almost none of them will. Take away their paychecks and their toys and they will cave.

Call their bluff. Offer extremely narrow exceptions, then just do it. Fire the transit employees. Fire the nurses. Fire the teachers. They will all cave if the political leaders show that they are serious.

Private employers are already doing this. Seems fair to me. People have the choice whether to keep their jobs or find other employment.

Yes, a couple private employers are flexing their muscles. They're mostly the prestigious, white collar institutions. The vast, vast majority of employers are on the fence because they don't want to be the first people to defend lawsuits, it's easier to let someone else take the heat and take half measures.

The public sector needs to take charge and show the way instead of cowing to their unions. Yes, easier said than done.

[OtherJen]

Almost none of them will. Take away their paychecks and their toys and they will cave.

Call their bluff. Offer extremely narrow exceptions, then just do it. Fire the transit employees. Fire the nurses. Fire the teachers. They will all cave if the political leaders show that they are serious.

Private employers are already doing this. Seems fair to me. People have the choice whether to keep their jobs or find other employment.

Yes, a couple private employers are flexing their muscles. They're mostly the prestigious, white collar institutions. The vast, vast majority of employers are on the fence because they don't want to be the first people to defend lawsuits, it's easier to let someone else take the heat and take half measures.

The public sector needs to take charge and show the way instead of cowing to their unions. Yes, easier said than done.

It's starting to happen. I saw that Washington DC is mandating all public sector workers to be vaccinated. My public alma mater is doing the same for students, faculty, and staff. The US armed forces just issued a COVID vaccine mandate.

[SunnyDays]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

You don't have to force them, just make it a requirement to do anything in society. If they want to go back to being hunter gatherers in the woods, good luck have fun. Kinda like we force people to wear clothes in public.

My anti-vaxxer friend is sort of planning exactly that.  Going to go off-grid remotely if the government tries to take away her freedom of choice.   But she's willing to give up the freedom to have a job, running water, electricity, convenient food and all the amenities of modern life.  That's quite the trade-off.  Of course, the gov't won't have to do such a thing, because individual businesses will do it instead.

I wonder how many people will follow through on this kind of thing, or if it will end up like all the people who said they would move to Canada if Trump won.

Most people can barely bring themselves to leave a job they hate, much less totally upend their entire lives.

That’s exactly what I said to her.

This is someone who makes her living on a computer, has to have the indoor temperature at 22C year round, uses 2 full bathtubs of water a day and has no gardening, building or survival skills at all.  She wouldn’t make it more than a few days on her own and no community of like minded people would want her because she has nothing to offer them.  Not to mention that she’s pushing 60, is in poor physical shape and has next to no savings or assets. But the plan seems reasonable to her, which tells you a lot about her judgment right there.

[Metalcat]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

You don't have to force them, just make it a requirement to do anything in society. If they want to go back to being hunter gatherers in the woods, good luck have fun. Kinda like we force people to wear clothes in public.

My anti-vaxxer friend is sort of planning exactly that.  Going to go off-grid remotely if the government tries to take away her freedom of choice.   But she's willing to give up the freedom to have a job, running water, electricity, convenient food and all the amenities of modern life.  That's quite the trade-off.  Of course, the gov't won't have to do such a thing, because individual businesses will do it instead.

I wonder how many people will follow through on this kind of thing, or if it will end up like all the people who said they would move to Canada if Trump won.

Most people can barely bring themselves to leave a job they hate, much less totally upend their entire lives.

That’s exactly what I said to her.

This is someone who makes her living on a computer, has to have the indoor temperature at 22C year round, uses 2 full bathtubs of water a day and has no gardening, building or survival skills at all.  She wouldn’t make it more than a few days on her own and no community of like minded people would want her because she has nothing to offer them.  Not to mention that she’s pushing 60, is in poor physical shape and has next to no savings or assets. But the plan seems reasonable to her, which tells you a lot about her judgment right there.

I'm really starting to worry about people.

What kind of distress and mistrust must these people exist in to end up this way? It's horrible.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I keep contemplating how unstable these people must feel, how dangerous and scary the world must seem to them.

This is what a constant diet of fear does to people.

[PDXTabs]

I'm really starting to worry about people.

What kind of distress and mistrust must these people exist in to end up this way? It's horrible.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I keep contemplating how unstable these people must feel, how dangerous and scary the world must seem to them.

This is what a constant diet of fear does to people.

I agree, but I also don't believe it to be new. In particular, I had a left leaning professor in college tell me with a straight face that he didn't believe the numbers in the FBI Unified Crime Report because he thought that the US Government was intentionally hiding firearms deaths from the public.

[Paper Chaser]

I got my second shot on saturday and was completely floored sunday, bad monday and today is "a bit fever but mostly okay".
As far as I read and heard experience from relatives, that is about average.

Will that mean that we will have to get a shot each year, with one third of the people being downed for two or three days every year? That would be... very uncomfortable. And maybe lead to people not getting the vaccine anymore?

That's an interesting question.

Feeling sick after getting one of these shots is very common.  My wife had powerful headaches for eight days after getting her first shot - a bunch of tests were done, and our doctor believes it was a reaction to the shot.  I was surprised how bad the shot made me feel, with something like the flu shot I don't feel any difference at all.  Does anyone know about the likelihood of there being significant side effects for booster shots going forward?

The people in my circle that have had covid infection seem to have had much less reaction to the vaccines than those who have not had covid. So perhaps some exposure (either through natural infection or prior vaccination) will reduce the negative side effects of any future vaccination. That seems like the whole point really. Prior exposure to the virus leads to lessened reactions to future exposure.

[Metalcat]

I'm really starting to worry about people.

What kind of distress and mistrust must these people exist in to end up this way? It's horrible.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I keep contemplating how unstable these people must feel, how dangerous and scary the world must seem to them.

This is what a constant diet of fear does to people.

I agree, but I also don't believe it to be new. In particular, I had a left leaning professor in college tell me with a straight face that he didn't believe the numbers in the FBI Unified Crime Report because he thought that the US Government was intentionally hiding firearms deaths from the public.

No, of course the phenomenon isn't new, but we're seeing it on a rather large scale right now, especially in the US.

[OtherJen]

I'm really starting to worry about people.

What kind of distress and mistrust must these people exist in to end up this way? It's horrible.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I keep contemplating how unstable these people must feel, how dangerous and scary the world must seem to them.

This is what a constant diet of fear does to people.

I agree, but I also don't believe it to be new. In particular, I had a left leaning professor in college tell me with a straight face that he didn't believe the numbers in the FBI Unified Crime Report because he thought that the US Government was intentionally hiding firearms deaths from the public.

No, of course the phenomenon isn't new, but we're seeing it on a rather large scale right now, especially in the US.

Forty-plus years of right-wing evangelical anti-science brainwashing will do that: https://theconversation.com/how-the-religious-right-shaped-american-politics-6-essential-reads-89005, https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/6/2/the-power-worshippers-a-look-inside-the-american-religious-right, https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/10/what-caused-the-u-s-anti-science-trend/

[chemistk]

Where did people get this notion that the Constitution and our Founding Fathers gave them the right to do whatever the F__ they want. This seems to be a pervasive belief, particularly in some conservative and libertarian circles.

There is no Right enshrined in the constitution so absolute that reasonable limitations cannot be placed upon it, and we have 240 years of case law and legislation to prove it.

THe people who shout “…but Freedom!” Seem to be the ones who understand our government the least.

Where does the notion originate? From the the people and the moral ideologies that birthed the founding fathers - especially and importantly Locke (although many others are invoked in the dicourse). The modern invocation of the Constitution/rights is a mild perversion of Locke's philosophy on an individual's (shit who am I kidding - a white man's) right to property, religious freedom, etc.

The extrapolation between Locke and the Constitution is drawn through the actions of the revolution and more or less has precipitated as the notion that because our country was founded in direct opposition to the Crown and to establish the rights of the individual white man to do as he sees fit, his government only exists in the most idealistic sense to provide his individual property and liberty protection from enemies.

This narrow and selective interpretation of the genesis of the Constitution and the United States as we know it today allows for a platform from which individual liberty is greater than anything other than God himself. Taking that view allows one to selectively ignore and sweep under the rug any moral conundrums and ideological inconsistencies that would perverse the view that the individual white man and personal property is anything other than the highest good.

Now, I'm glossing over way too much, and I'm probably making one or two generalizations that I shouldn't, but some of the people I graduated with spent 8 years studying this exact interpretation of the birth of our nation and I only took the minimum required courses on the topic. For reference, I went to an incredibly conservative college and have very mixed feelings about spending time there.

I also want to provide a post-commentary that I do think there is plenty of food for thought in Locke and many of his ideas ain't all that bad, but again, he and what his thoughts led to are the moral foundation that the "But my rights" argument is built from.

[RetiredAt63]

I also want to provide a post-commentary that I do think there is plenty of food for thought in Locke and many of his ideas ain't all that bad, but again, he and what his thoughts led to are the moral foundation that the "But my rights" argument is built from.

Why Canadians and Americans have different world views:

“We have no absolute rights among us. The rights of each man, in our state of society, end precisely at the point where they encroach upon the rights of others.” - Sir Wilfrid Laurier

[Roots&Wings]

I'm really starting to worry about people.

What kind of distress and mistrust must these people exist in to end up this way? It's horrible.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I keep contemplating how unstable these people must feel, how dangerous and scary the world must seem to them.

This is what a constant diet of fear does to people.

I agree, but I also don't believe it to be new. In particular, I had a left leaning professor in college tell me with a straight face that he didn't believe the numbers in the FBI Unified Crime Report because he thought that the US Government was intentionally hiding firearms deaths from the public.

No, of course the phenomenon isn't new, but we're seeing it on a rather large scale right now, especially in the US.

Forty-plus years of right-wing evangelical anti-science brainwashing will do that: https://theconversation.com/how-the-religious-right-shaped-american-politics-6-essential-reads-89005, https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/6/2/the-power-worshippers-a-look-inside-the-american-religious-right, https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/10/what-caused-the-u-s-anti-science-trend/

Yep, it's amazing the fear some of these people live in. Driving through Trump country and seeing the Trump flags paired with signs like "This home is protected by the Good Lord & Guns", or ugly high fences around houses with blinds closed and security camera signs to "Beware", or banners that "Black Guns Matter".

They're fed so much fear and hate from many sources.

[OtherJen]

I'm really starting to worry about people.

What kind of distress and mistrust must these people exist in to end up this way? It's horrible.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I keep contemplating how unstable these people must feel, how dangerous and scary the world must seem to them.

This is what a constant diet of fear does to people.

I agree, but I also don't believe it to be new. In particular, I had a left leaning professor in college tell me with a straight face that he didn't believe the numbers in the FBI Unified Crime Report because he thought that the US Government was intentionally hiding firearms deaths from the public.

No, of course the phenomenon isn't new, but we're seeing it on a rather large scale right now, especially in the US.

Forty-plus years of right-wing evangelical anti-science brainwashing will do that: https://theconversation.com/how-the-religious-right-shaped-american-politics-6-essential-reads-89005, https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/6/2/the-power-worshippers-a-look-inside-the-american-religious-right, https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/10/what-caused-the-u-s-anti-science-trend/

Yep, it's amazing the fear some of these people live in. Driving through Trump country and seeing the Trump flags paired with signs like "This home is protected by the Good Lord & Guns", or ugly high fences around houses with blinds closed and security camera signs to "Beware", or banners that "Black Guns Matter".

They're fed so much fear and hate from many sources.

Yep. We drove through some of the red part of the state earlier this week en route to a lovely and well-maintained state park. Lots of signage about Jesus, guns, and Trump 2024. According to several flags, we can go fuck ourselves because we voted for Biden (good Christian values and family-friendly language). Needless to say, we didn't spend much money outside of the park; when we did, it was in the left-wing-leaning city about 30 min. away.

[GodlessCommie]

I just saw something this morning that Florida now has more COVID deaths that DeSantis' margin of victory. I'm sure not everyone who had died voted for him but as the number of deaths creeps up there you gotta wonder.

A disproportional share of dead are Black and Latino.

[GodlessCommie]

I'm really starting to worry about people.

What kind of distress and mistrust must these people exist in to end up this way? It's horrible.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I keep contemplating how unstable these people must feel, how dangerous and scary the world must seem to them.

This is what a constant diet of fear does to people.

I cannot find that article now, but I saw results of a poll that indicate that one of the best predictors of a Trump vote is a positive answer to this question:

"I often contemplate starting the society over after a major cataclysm".

[LennStar]

I cannot find that article now, but I saw results of a poll that indicate that one of the best predictors of a Trump vote is a positive answer to this question:

"I often contemplate starting the society over after a major cataclysm".

That's funny, because that is nearly the same as what everyone (not far right) in the rest of the world thought when he got elected.
Luckily he was even less competent than imagined.


Similar things happen here with the Greens. Just today I answered those "The Greens want to forbid us everything. No SUVs! No flights to the other side of the world! Super high taxes for the poor!" with the mention that just last week there was a study (and not the only one) that showed that the Greens proposed changes would actually lower taxes for poor people a bit.
(Of course I also mentioned that poor people cannot afford to fly or drive a SUV, but that always gets ignored.)
And the response was: And on what website did you get your brainwash?

That person did not even consider it could be true. Btw. the brainwashing website was the Institute of the Economy (or whatever the translation would be). As you might guess from the name not exactly the most leftist-green institute there is.
And of course, the parties that would increase the tax burden on poor people the most are those right wing parties that person will likely vote for. As is was the last time.

[GodlessCommie]

Similar things happen here with the Greens.

I have to say, observing from afar, I'm pleasantly surprised with the German Greens. They appear to be less ideological, more practical, and more responsible than most of their counterparts on other countries - without sacrificing their main goals. I hope they continue getting traction.

[Mr. Green]

I'm really starting to worry about people.

What kind of distress and mistrust must these people exist in to end up this way? It's horrible.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I keep contemplating how unstable these people must feel, how dangerous and scary the world must seem to them.

This is what a constant diet of fear does to people.

I agree, but I also don't believe it to be new. In particular, I had a left leaning professor in college tell me with a straight face that he didn't believe the numbers in the FBI Unified Crime Report because he thought that the US Government was intentionally hiding firearms deaths from the public.

No, of course the phenomenon isn't new, but we're seeing it on a rather large scale right now, especially in the US.

Forty-plus years of right-wing evangelical anti-science brainwashing will do that: https://theconversation.com/how-the-religious-right-shaped-american-politics-6-essential-reads-89005, https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/6/2/the-power-worshippers-a-look-inside-the-american-religious-right, https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/10/what-caused-the-u-s-anti-science-trend/

Yep, it's amazing the fear some of these people live in. Driving through Trump country and seeing the Trump flags paired with signs like "This home is protected by the Good Lord & Guns", or ugly high fences around houses with blinds closed and security camera signs to "Beware", or banners that "Black Guns Matter".

They're fed so much fear and hate from many sources.

There's some irony there. Living in fear of an unknown criminal element but being so worried about a face mask projecting fear that they refuse.

[Just Joe]

Stop coddling the morons. Apply pressure and the long hard stick of the modern nation state until they cave.

Your authoritarian is showing.

You don't have to force them, just make it a requirement to do anything in society. If they want to go back to being hunter gatherers in the woods, good luck have fun. Kinda like we force people to wear clothes in public.

My anti-vaxxer friend is sort of planning exactly that.  Going to go off-grid remotely if the government tries to take away her freedom of choice.   But she's willing to give up the freedom to have a job, running water, electricity, convenient food and all the amenities of modern life.  That's quite the trade-off.  Of course, the gov't won't have to do such a thing, because individual businesses will do it instead.

I thought this was the purpose of Alaska. A place for people like your friend.

[Just Joe]

I'm really starting to worry about people.

What kind of distress and mistrust must these people exist in to end up this way? It's horrible.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I keep contemplating how unstable these people must feel, how dangerous and scary the world must seem to them.

This is what a constant diet of fear does to people.

I agree, but I also don't believe it to be new. In particular, I had a left leaning professor in college tell me with a straight face that he didn't believe the numbers in the FBI Unified Crime Report because he thought that the US Government was intentionally hiding firearms deaths from the public.

No, of course the phenomenon isn't new, but we're seeing it on a rather large scale right now, especially in the US.

Forty-plus years of right-wing evangelical anti-science brainwashing will do that: https://theconversation.com/how-the-religious-right-shaped-american-politics-6-essential-reads-89005, https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/6/2/the-power-worshippers-a-look-inside-the-american-religious-right, https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/10/what-caused-the-u-s-anti-science-trend/

Yep, it's amazing the fear some of these people live in. Driving through Trump country and seeing the Trump flags paired with signs like "This home is protected by the Good Lord & Guns", or ugly high fences around houses with blinds closed and security camera signs to "Beware", or banners that "Black Guns Matter".

They're fed so much fear and hate from many sources.

Part of the problem is relying on God for protection and deliverance from crisis can be unreliable in 2021...

[teen persuasion]

I got my second shot on saturday and was completely floored sunday, bad monday and today is "a bit fever but mostly okay".
As far as I read and heard experience from relatives, that is about average.

Will that mean that we will have to get a shot each year, with one third of the people being downed for two or three days every year? That would be... very uncomfortable. And maybe lead to people not getting the vaccine anymore?

That's an interesting question.

Feeling sick after getting one of these shots is very common.  My wife had powerful headaches for eight days after getting her first shot - a bunch of tests were done, and our doctor believes it was a reaction to the shot.  I was surprised how bad the shot made me feel, with something like the flu shot I don't feel any difference at all.  Does anyone know about the likelihood of there being significant side effects for booster shots going forward?

The people in my circle that have had covid infection seem to have had much less reaction to the vaccines than those who have not had covid. So perhaps some exposure (either through natural infection or prior vaccination) will reduce the negative side effects of any future vaccination. That seems like the whole point really. Prior exposure to the virus leads to lessened reactions to future exposure.

That's odd - I'd heard the opposite.  Those who'd had Covid had a worse reaction to the vaccine, leading many to be wary to get the vax.  The theory being that their system recognized and reacted to it.


Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

My boss and I got our vaccinations the same day/place/type.  She got hers after working early, I scheduled mine before going in to work the late shift.  Both had a sore arm but nothing more (mine took 6 hours to develop).  Second shot, same schedule, but we both planned to have the weekend off to recuperate, if needed.  I had the same sore arm, no more.  DH and I went on a hike the next day.  Boss spent her birthday sleeping off fever and chills, and then it lifted completely.  She said as miserable as she felt, it's still preferable to getting Covid.  She has a cousin fighting long covid, and it's significantly impacting her future (both are young, no kids yet).

[MudPuppy]

I don’t think there’s a hard and fast rule to the experience people who’ve had infection get from the vaccine. Some have a big reaction some have nothing.

[Omy]

My fitness freak friend who was on a ventilator from covid in March 2020 had a horrible reaction to the vaccine in March 2021. However, the vaccine seemed to reset her system and a lot of her long covid symptoms went away after being vaccinated.

I haven't had covid (to my knowledge). My first Moderna shot  made my arm hurt for 2 days, but I was otherwise fine. The 2nd shot was a doozie... I had covid arm, fever, chills, horrible headache, vomiting, dry heaves. 3 crappy days but well worth it since I now feel protected instead of fearful. I swear they put something in the vaccine that makes you feel invincible.

[dougules]

My fitness freak friend who was on a ventilator from covid in March 2020 had a horrible reaction to the vaccine in March 2021. However, the vaccine seemed to reset her system and a lot of her long covid symptoms went away after being vaccinated.

I haven't had covid (to my knowledge). My first Moderna shot  made my arm hurt for 2 days, but I was otherwise fine. The 2nd shot was a doozie... I had covid arm, fever, chills, horrible headache, vomiting, dry heaves. 3 crappy days but well worth it since I now feel protected instead of fearful. I swear they put something in the vaccine that makes you feel invincible.

Anecdotally Moderna seems to be the worst for side effects, but the preliminary results from a Mayo Clinic study suggest it may give better protection against delta than the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. 

[Kris]

My fitness freak friend who was on a ventilator from covid in March 2020 had a horrible reaction to the vaccine in March 2021. However, the vaccine seemed to reset her system and a lot of her long covid symptoms went away after being vaccinated.

I haven't had covid (to my knowledge). My first Moderna shot  made my arm hurt for 2 days, but I was otherwise fine. The 2nd shot was a doozie... I had covid arm, fever, chills, horrible headache, vomiting, dry heaves. 3 crappy days but well worth it since I now feel protected instead of fearful. I swear they put something in the vaccine that makes you feel invincible.

I also have a friend who was a long-hauler who had her long-term symptoms go away after she was vaccinated. Oh, and actually I know a guy whose sense of taste went away when he got Covid, and it came back after he got vaccinated.

[PKFFW]

Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

Anecdotally, I had severe head spins starting about 18 hours after the vaccine that lasted 5 days.  And by severe, I mean could hardly walk around my house for falling over.  I also had a sore arm that lasted about a day but I get that after every vaccine.

Not a problem though, actually quite enjoyable and reminded me of what "a friend" ;-) told me about their younger days taking some party enhancement substances.

[Mr. Green]

Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

In an odd reversal, my reaction was to the first dose. Tiniest fever, chills, and strong fatigue for a few hours. No reaction to the second.

[LennStar]

My fitness freak friend who was on a ventilator from covid in March 2020 had a horrible reaction to the vaccine in March 2021. However, the vaccine seemed to reset her system and a lot of her long covid symptoms went away after being vaccinated.

I haven't had covid (to my knowledge). My first Moderna shot  made my arm hurt for 2 days, but I was otherwise fine. The 2nd shot was a doozie... I had covid arm, fever, chills, horrible headache, vomiting, dry heaves. 3 crappy days but well worth it since I now feel protected instead of fearful. I swear they put something in the vaccine that makes you feel invincible.

Anecdotally Moderna seems to be the worst for side effects, but the preliminary results from a Mayo Clinic study suggest it may give better protection against delta than the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

Now that "reset" is an interesting thing. Would be nice if that worked on at least a few people.

I also had Moderna. And it does seem to be the most effective from all I read, so I won't complain about two bad days.

[dougules]

Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

In an odd reversal, my reaction was to the first dose. Tiniest fever, chills, and strong fatigue for a few hours. No reaction to the second.

Did you have COVID that you know of?

[Mr. Green]

Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

In an odd reversal, my reaction was to the first dose. Tiniest fever, chills, and strong fatigue for a few hours. No reaction to the second.

Did you have COVID that you know of?

No. My wife and I were tested once in November when she got the sniffles and we checked for safety because she was in early pregnancy. Now you're making me wonder! Haha. I haven't been sick since the pandemic started but I know there are plenty of asymptomatic cases out there. Hmm.

[teen persuasion]

Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

Anecdotally, I had severe head spins starting about 18 hours after the vaccine that lasted 5 days.  And by severe, I mean could hardly walk around my house for falling over.  I also had a sore arm that lasted about a day but I get that after every vaccine.

Not a problem though, actually quite enjoyable and reminded me of what "a friend" ;-) told me about their younger days taking some party enhancement substances.

Five days? Wow - that does not sound fun to me!

I'm curious - did the effects taper off over time, or just stop?  Everyone has told me any tiredness/fever/chills/etc just lifted like magic, and they felt fully normal the next day.

All I got was a sore arm, which actually surprised me.  I never feel soreness from vaccinations that others complain about.  I'm kind of glad I got SOME reaction, though, to know something was active - when you hear about stories like the anti-vax nurse who replaced the vaccine with saline when giving shots.  My 91 yo dad had no reaction to the J&J shot; he wonders how much protection he has.

[Metalcat]

Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

Anecdotally, I had severe head spins starting about 18 hours after the vaccine that lasted 5 days.  And by severe, I mean could hardly walk around my house for falling over.  I also had a sore arm that lasted about a day but I get that after every vaccine.

Not a problem though, actually quite enjoyable and reminded me of what "a friend" ;-) told me about their younger days taking some party enhancement substances.

Five days? Wow - that does not sound fun to me!

I'm curious - did the effects taper off over time, or just stop?  Everyone has told me any tiredness/fever/chills/etc just lifted like magic, and they felt fully normal the next day.

All I got was a sore arm, which actually surprised me.  I never feel soreness from vaccinations that others complain about.  I'm kind of glad I got SOME reaction, though, to know something was active - when you hear about stories like the anti-vax nurse who replaced the vaccine with saline when giving shots.  My 91 yo dad had no reaction to the J&J shot; he wonders how much protection he has.

I *always* get horribly sick with vaccines and I had virtually no reaction to either of my shots, one was Pfizer and the other moderna.

[wenchsenior]

Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

Anecdotally, I had severe head spins starting about 18 hours after the vaccine that lasted 5 days.  And by severe, I mean could hardly walk around my house for falling over.  I also had a sore arm that lasted about a day but I get that after every vaccine.

Not a problem though, actually quite enjoyable and reminded me of what "a friend" ;-) told me about their younger days taking some party enhancement substances.

Five days? Wow - that does not sound fun to me!

I'm curious - did the effects taper off over time, or just stop?  Everyone has told me any tiredness/fever/chills/etc just lifted like magic, and they felt fully normal the next day.

All I got was a sore arm, which actually surprised me.  I never feel soreness from vaccinations that others complain about.  I'm kind of glad I got SOME reaction, though, to know something was active - when you hear about stories like the anti-vax nurse who replaced the vaccine with saline when giving shots.  My 91 yo dad had no reaction to the J&J shot; he wonders how much protection he has.

I *always* get horribly sick with vaccines and I had virtually no reaction to either of my shots, one was Pfizer and the other moderna.

Conversely, I never get sick from vaccinations (other than sore arm) and got extremely sick after my second Moderna shot.  Totally 100% worth it.

[HPstache]

Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

Anecdotally, I had severe head spins starting about 18 hours after the vaccine that lasted 5 days.  And by severe, I mean could hardly walk around my house for falling over.  I also had a sore arm that lasted about a day but I get that after every vaccine.

Not a problem though, actually quite enjoyable and reminded me of what "a friend" ;-) told me about their younger days taking some party enhancement substances.

Five days? Wow - that does not sound fun to me!

I'm curious - did the effects taper off over time, or just stop?  Everyone has told me any tiredness/fever/chills/etc just lifted like magic, and they felt fully normal the next day.

All I got was a sore arm, which actually surprised me.  I never feel soreness from vaccinations that others complain about.  I'm kind of glad I got SOME reaction, though, to know something was active - when you hear about stories like the anti-vax nurse who replaced the vaccine with saline when giving shots.  My 91 yo dad had no reaction to the J&J shot; he wonders how much protection he has.

I *always* get horribly sick with vaccines and I had virtually no reaction to either of my shots, one was Pfizer and the other moderna.

Conversely, I never get sick from vaccinations (other than sore arm) and got extremely sick after my second Moderna shot.  Totally 100% worth it.

Same.  I did not even know that some people felt sick after vaccinations because I never did.  That was until I got my 2nd Moderna...

[GuitarStv]

Anecdotally, I haven't heard of vax side effects lasting more than a day.  Some had little to no effects, most had a sore arm, some had sleepiness and/or flu-like symptoms, fewer had a fever and/or headache issues.  But everyone felt back to normal the next morning.  Any side effects were stronger with the second dose.

Anecdotally, I had severe head spins starting about 18 hours after the vaccine that lasted 5 days.  And by severe, I mean could hardly walk around my house for falling over.  I also had a sore arm that lasted about a day but I get that after every vaccine.

Not a problem though, actually quite enjoyable and reminded me of what "a friend" ;-) told me about their younger days taking some party enhancement substances.

Five days? Wow - that does not sound fun to me!

I'm curious - did the effects taper off over time, or just stop?  Everyone has told me any tiredness/fever/chills/etc just lifted like magic, and they felt fully normal the next day.

All I got was a sore arm, which actually surprised me.  I never feel soreness from vaccinations that others complain about.  I'm kind of glad I got SOME reaction, though, to know something was active - when you hear about stories like the anti-vax nurse who replaced the vaccine with saline when giving shots.  My 91 yo dad had no reaction to the J&J shot; he wonders how much protection he has.

I *always* get horribly sick with vaccines and I had virtually no reaction to either of my shots, one was Pfizer and the other moderna.

Conversely, I never get sick from vaccinations (other than sore arm) and got extremely sick after my second Moderna shot.  Totally 100% worth it.

Same.  I did not even know that some people felt sick after vaccinations because I never did.  That was until I got my 2nd Moderna...

Me also.  Never felt bad from any vaccine before, but I felt very sick the day after getting my first AZ shot.  My wife had some pretty debilitating migraines for a week and a half after getting it.  The Pfizer shot was no big deal though.