Author Topic: How does one find a job after getting fired?  (Read 3428 times)

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
How does one find a job after getting fired?
« on: September 11, 2018, 09:23:32 PM »
Never though I'd have to write that question out, but there it is.  Not fired, but I'd say I have a coin flip's chance in the environment I'm in now.

Some questions popping up:

Do you disclose that you were fired?
How do you disclose?
If yes, how does one discuss the circumstances?

For the curious, I work in a warehouse and I yelled at a coworker, abusive language, no threats.  Currently suspended pending investigation.  I've a union here to defend me, though I'm not sure how much help they are going to be with HR making the decision.  I've prepared my statement with apology, promise not to do it again, and explaining my situation.  If I stay on I'm looking for work elsewhwere immediately, looking already.  Anyone ever been in this situation?  Any tips on dealing with HR?

Linda_Norway

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3563
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2018, 03:22:38 AM »
You could also quit your job yourself so you won't get fired. Or, if your employer chooses to fire you, ask if they let you quit voluntarily instead.

If you quit yourself, try to sell it as if you needed to take a break from work.
In general, I personally think you shouldn't lie when being asked anything directly. Just try to wrap the truth as nicely as you can.

Try to avoid being questioned about why you are fired. I think that yelling would not make you an attractive employee to hire. So better to quit yourself and tell a white lie, then to get fired and having to choose between telling a real lie or an unattractive truth.

My DH was once unjustly fired, in a way that the employer ended up having to pay him a 9 month salary in compensation. DH negotiated that he could quit himself and told the next boss that he wanted a different position.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 03:24:34 AM by Linda_Norway »

MayDay

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3698
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2018, 05:25:32 AM »
I don't know how skilled your Warehouse job is, or how many warehouses there are where you live, but the warehouses around here are so desperate for people that I seriously doubt they would care.

Good luck. Sounds like a tough situation.

bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3129
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2018, 09:02:21 AM »
Lie. Lie like a dog. No company is going to take a legal chance with you.

It's a great economy and you decided to take a short break to...spend time with your older parents/kids/nature. It doesn't matter. Admitting to being fired inevitably brings up the question, "Why were you fired?" There's no good answer to that question.

Sibley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3206
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Chicago, IL
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2018, 12:01:19 PM »
Ask a manager has some good advice on this topic.

Totally doable. I've done it. Don't lie, but you need to have a plausible explanation. Also, if you're not yet, start job searching.

therethere

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 576
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2018, 12:13:52 PM »
It wasn't a good fit. Because xxxxxxx (something the new company doesn't do).

Most companies have an HR policy that even if they are called for reference they will only disclose Jim Smith worked here with xxxx title from Jan 2000 to Aug 2018. Nothing after that.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 08:27:26 AM by therethere »

hoping2retire35

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
  • Location: UPCOUNTRY CAROLINA
  • just want to see where this appears
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 07:14:19 AM »
Don't lie! Even if not for your own conscience and honor but for the simply fact of a possible hire to going to (if they find out you lied) to an absolute no; and future black list.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 12096
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2018, 07:15:52 AM »
Fired, or laid off?  They're quite different.  I've been laid off three times.  Never been fired though.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3358
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2018, 07:18:04 AM »
How likely is a prospective employer to contact your previous employer for a reference? That's something to plan for, too.

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2018, 06:24:43 PM »
How likely is a prospective employer to contact your previous employer for a reference? That's something to plan for, too.

It is a Fortune 500 company and they're very lawsuit averse so I think they'd just stick with the employment facts (date hired/left, position, etc.). Every previous employer would have good things to say though.

GuitarStv-
Fired, gee I wish I could explain it as a layoff!

With regards to lying or not, I think I'll stick with the avoid and/or spin strategy. If I get asked details, I'll share and give the prepared "how much I've learned" spiel. The amount of people I've known who've made mistakes and gotten ahead gives me a lot of hope.

Thanks all for reading and chiming in.

Papa bear

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
  • Location: Ohio
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2018, 07:06:49 PM »
Find yourself a reference.  A former supervisor, someone who is sympathetic to your situation, friend in another department, that can speak on your behalf. 

I get twitchy when I can't get a reference from someone at a job. Surely you can find someone, anyone, that likes you there. Use their cell phone. Big companies HR group references are worse than having none at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fuzzy math

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 631
  • Location: PNW ---> Midwest (for now)
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 07:57:54 AM »
The code question I’ve heard to get around the lawsuit issue is

“Is this person eligible for rehire?”

Can someone speak to whether this is used frequently? I believe your biggest issue lies here, whether they can comment or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papa bear

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
  • Location: Ohio
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2018, 10:11:25 AM »
The code question I’ve heard to get around the lawsuit issue is

“Is this person eligible for rehire?”

Can someone speak to whether this is used frequently? I believe your biggest issue lies here, whether they can comment or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That question is ubiquitous in third party firms.  HR can usually answer, though other references may not know.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BTDretire

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2239
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2018, 10:26:08 AM »
Fired, or laid off?  They're quite different.  I've been laid off three times.  Never been fired though.
Funny story about that. My dad was a union carpenter,  so when one job was finished he got laid off until the next job was started. I was a young boy and saw my dad would work and then not work, I ask my mother, "why does dad keep getting fired" she had to explain to me that he wasn't fired he was laid off and about the construction business and houses or buildings being started and finished.

wbranch

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 114
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Some Mountain Ridge
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2018, 10:54:05 AM »
Fired, or laid off?  They're quite different.  I've been laid off three times.  Never been fired though.
Funny story about that. My dad was a union carpenter,  so when one job was finished he got laid off until the next job was started. I was a young boy and saw my dad would work and then not work, I ask my mother, "why does dad keep getting fired" she had to explain to me that he wasn't fired he was laid off and about the construction business and houses or buildings being started and finished.

I know quite a few union construction guys. They like to say they have never been fired, just laid off when the company is hiring.

Silverado

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 170
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 04:48:04 PM »
Good luck. Hopefully you are not fired. I miss the days of 'sticks and stones...'

At my company, we are not allowed to be references for people who leave (for whatever reason).

Tough situation, ai am definitely in the better tell the truth camp. A spun truth is fine, but still the truth.

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 05:15:04 PM »
Yep. Crazy thing is if the place wasn't union I'd probably have to shake the other dude's hand and apologize. Which I would have done-and moved on! Yet now I'll either get fired or have to sign an LCA with the threat of firing hanging over me, and expect to be a happy camper....

But I've moved on. Got a haircut and am about to scour the net for opportunities.

bendixso123

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 08:59:15 PM »
The same way you get a job when you weren't fired.

You apply to a gazillion different places, have like 20 interviews, and out of those there's a chance at least a few of them will hire you.

Oftentimes, a person who was fired is just a person who was about to quit but waited too long. Cultural differences and different personalities can simply not mesh well together, and it leads to these sorts of situations. People hang on because everyone needs money.

If there were a machine objectively determining which employees are great and which ones aren't, and all decisions to fire someone were made from the data it collects, then there might be a good reason to never hire someone who was previously fired from their job. But all too often it's a squishy human being doing the assessment, and humans are fallible and biased.

When companies need people in jobs, they don't scrutinize so heavily. Don't lie, but also don't bring it up. If they don't bring it up it's probably because there's a huge need to be filled and they figure they'll hire a bunch of people and then fire the lazy ones later on.

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2018, 04:27:32 PM »
Well shit, I've just been canned. Canned for a phrase I didn't even utter. I swear if I would have been fired for cussing that would have hurt, but I'd really have noone to blame but myself. Nope. I suppose it doesn't matter anyway.

DavidAnnArbor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2018, 04:33:52 PM »
Sorry you're going through this. It must be emotionally very painful.

The good news is the economy is so strong right now that presumably there's lots of job opportunities.

pachnik

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1710
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2018, 04:35:07 PM »
Well shit, I've just been canned. Canned for a phrase I didn't even utter. I swear if I would have been fired for cussing that would have hurt, but I'd really have noone to blame but myself. Nope. I suppose it doesn't matter anyway.

I've been there too.  You will find something else (I did!).

Parton

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2018, 01:02:49 PM »
And what is the actual problem to find another job? If you were fired according to the article of fraud or inconsistencies in the position, it will be difficult, but in general there are a lot of jobs.

norabird

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7018
  • Location: Brooklyn NY
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2018, 01:11:29 PM »
I've been fired once, and 'resigned' once--I really had to resign though, so it was forced in some ways, though I did it very very voluntarily. It honestly has rarely been an issue. I remember the first interview after the first firing they asked why I left the company and I really froze up, but otherwise, it usually didn't get mentioned. It happened amidst a lot of layoffs, and I mostly coasted on that (lying by omission I guess but I do. not. believe at ALL that it's important or necessary to disclose).

After the resignation I got a service job that was still adjacent to my industry and plugged right on with job searching. I was sort of pivoting back to a different area in my field so that was my explanation, I guess. 'X wasn't a good fit for me, Im looking for Y'.

Both were very very long job hunts, party due to the timing--first one was in the recession--and then just because, well, my resume got a bit weird. Now I'm several jobs on from the 'resignation' and the gap on my resume just isn't a big issue anymore; it's all water under the bridge and literally never gets brought up when interviewing. I don't bother explaining in my cover letter anymore. With time, it will all sort itself out, honestly!!

Are you job hunting now? Get started for sure if you feel iffy--I would have been much better off if I had left those places when it started not being a fit. Actually, I think that is what has driven some mild job hopping since then. If a place or a role or a boss relationship doesn't feel entirely secure I take heed of that and try to leave.

But basically I think a lot of the time it's about departmental dynamics and doesn't say *tooo* much about you, and it is absolutely not disqualifying. You'll learn from it, and it doesn't decrease your value as a person. Probably it will just open up space in your life for a positive change.

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2018, 03:16:37 PM »
And what is the actual problem to find another job? If you were fired according to the article of fraud or inconsistencies in the position, it will be difficult, but in general there are a lot of jobs.

The difficulty is that with multiple candidates to choose from, why take a risk with a guy that got fired? I've had what I've thought were very promising leads go nowhere. If I even had a modicum of experience in the field I'm trying to enter (beside the schooling), I would most likely be able to overcome the firing. With firing and zero experience, it's a tough sell. Tempted to coast on my company's impending layoffs though as cover, since it's also probably factoring into why they are playing hardball with my union in trying to get me back into my position.

Thanks for the encouragement and stories guys. And hell yeah I'm job hunting heh. I'm getting pickier as I become more educated in this sector and the good/bad employers. There is definitely a cost to working with a subpar employer, mainly in training practices. A good employer will set you up for a career, a bad one will stymie any progress.

Linda_Norway

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3563
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2018, 03:09:42 AM »
And what is the actual problem to find another job? If you were fired according to the article of fraud or inconsistencies in the position, it will be difficult, but in general there are a lot of jobs.

The difficulty is that with multiple candidates to choose from, why take a risk with a guy that got fired? I've had what I've thought were very promising leads go nowhere. If I even had a modicum of experience in the field I'm trying to enter (beside the schooling), I would most likely be able to overcome the firing. With firing and zero experience, it's a tough sell. Tempted to coast on my company's impending layoffs though as cover, since it's also probably factoring into why they are playing hardball with my union in trying to get me back into my position.

Thanks for the encouragement and stories guys. And hell yeah I'm job hunting heh. I'm getting pickier as I become more educated in this sector and the good/bad employers. There is definitely a cost to working with a subpar employer, mainly in training practices. A good employer will set you up for a career, a bad one will stymie any progress.

You could also go for a temporary job at any employer and then find something new after a year at a better employer.

norabird

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7018
  • Location: Brooklyn NY
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2018, 07:19:23 AM »
Quote
The difficulty is that with multiple candidates to choose from, why take a risk with a guy that got fired? I've had what I've thought were very promising leads go nowhere. If I even had a modicum of experience in the field I'm trying to enter (beside the schooling), I would most likely be able to overcome the firing. With firing and zero experience, it's a tough sell. Tempted to coast on my company's impending layoffs though as cover, since it's also probably factoring into why they are playing hardball with my union in trying to get me back into my position.

Granted I've never gotten official advice on this, but I would absolutely not be explicit about your firing and let people come to whatever conclusion they want about why you aren't there anymore.

Kl285528

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 114
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2018, 07:23:28 AM »
Went through some career counseling at The Five O'Clock Club (great resource, btw, look for the book series by Kate Wendleton - I think they call themselves GetFive now). Anyway, listening to a talk by Kate Wendleton, she went through a scenario where a hiring manager asks some questions about your background, etc. She emphasized that the hiring manager is in a position where they really want to hire someone, and you do yourself no favors by "totally honest" where it is detrimental to your goal of being hired, and the goal of the hiring manager to hire someone. Don't lie, but do not feel the need to be overly forthcoming about anything that is potentially negative about you or your background.

therethere

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 576
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2018, 08:45:59 AM »
Layoffs at the previous company are a great guise for being fired. Most companies try to clean house by any rules possible before layoffs to lower the amount of severance packages they have to provide. In that way, they may have been purposefully looking for people doing wrong in order to slim the numbers. I'd stop feeling self conscious about it and decide you are going to move forward. It doesn't make for the most comfortable interviewing mindset but its the best you can do for yourself. Wordsmith a "reason" you can say with a straight face and say it over and over again. If you leave it vague they will likely just assume you were laid off with the rest of them. I know you feel awful but things move forward. You'll be okay. This is one situation where dumb corporate games and rules will help you out.

Parton

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2018, 03:20:07 PM »
I didnít want to look for a job for a long time after I quit my job, first I wanted to rest, and secondly I constantly compared work conditions with the previous ones.

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2018, 04:25:04 PM »
Oy, another depressing week and we're only half way in.  Have followed up on leads by phone, turned resumes in person, and have found that getting ahold of actual people isn't too hard, but turning an interview into a job is harder than I thought.  Found out my firing is in the books and no "Last Chance Agreement" will be offered.  Arbitration is 12 months away, and will meet with union and attorney to discuss if this is even a possibility.  As my company is facing a struggle financially going forward, I think I'm ready to move on.  Am considering the possibility of staying on UE for as long as I can and focus on finishing my AA and let my SO bring in the bacon and get some health insurance.  This is actually a financially smart decision, but admitting failure on the job front bites.

Went through some career counseling at The Five O'Clock Club (great resource, btw, look for the book series by Kate Wendleton - I think they call themselves GetFive now). Anyway, listening to a talk by Kate Wendleton, she went through a scenario where a hiring manager asks some questions about your background, etc. She emphasized that the hiring manager is in a position where they really want to hire someone, and you do yourself no favors by "totally honest" where it is detrimental to your goal of being hired, and the goal of the hiring manager to hire someone. Don't lie, but do not feel the need to be overly forthcoming about anything that is potentially negative about you or your background.

This is an interesting perspective, never approached the interview with this in mind.  Thanks for sharing!  I mean it's truly obvious, but I guess sometimes it feels more like they are the wizard with a staff ready to say "You shall not pass!" haha.  Yep, I think I'm moving on from explicitly informing the interviewers of the details.  I truly wanted to be open and honest, but in reality, there's no reward for giving a guy a chance, just finding the right guy to do the job.  Just got to convince them of that part.

I'll attach my cover letter to this post if anyone wants to chime in.  I've read quite a few resume and cover tips, but am not sure what a "real person's" perspective on it is.  A few people around me say it's fine but long, and am not sure how to fix that without cutting out important details I'm trying to sell myself on.


lhamo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8552
  • Location: Seattle
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2018, 04:54:09 PM »
It seems overly wordy -- can you condense the experience down into bullet points, preferably ones that directly correspond to the skills/technical experience they ask for in the job listing?

Linda_Norway

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3563
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2018, 05:50:18 AM »
Your cover letter is way too long. I think much of the text could be transferred to your CV, which can be longer than the cover letter. The cover letter should only make it attractive for them to read your CV.

When I write a cover letter, I write shortly about my personal qualities that would fit with the specific job, maybe 2 sentences. And then about my motivation for that job and that employer, another 2 sentences. And refer shortly to my number of years with relevant working experience. Maybe also the last relevant education for it.

The details are in my CV, which I try to keep maximum 2 pages long. Also the CV therefore needs to be to the point. Keeping the CV short is challenging the more working experience I get. I cut out the eldest parts. 

hoping2retire35

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
  • Location: UPCOUNTRY CAROLINA
  • just want to see where this appears
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2018, 06:59:13 AM »
Overall, it is a good start. I do not think it is too long or wordy or needs bullet points, it is a cover letter. However, you do need to cut out some of the passive voice and be direct. Use action verbs when possible, "utilize', 'assist', etc. The other thing that stuck out to me is the order of the entire document. Rearrange it in a logical manner. State your purpose, education and work history briefly in the beginning paragraph. Follow up in the other paragraphs with your detailed experience. You have a good writing style and it will flow better once you work on it some more.

There are a few comments I quickly made, correct those and other similar mistakes along with rearranging it and it should be good.

norabird

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7018
  • Location: Brooklyn NY
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2018, 07:43:32 AM »
Don't get discouraged by job hunting too quickly!! I found I got around 1 interview for 10 applications (just as a back of envelope calculation). It's a lower ratio than when job hunting while employed, usually. I didn't worry too much about the results (you don't control hiring managers), but just on doing one thing a day for my search--meeting someone for coffee, reaching out, applying. Focus on what you control and don't expect instant results--job hunting is about the long haul.

norabird

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7018
  • Location: Brooklyn NY
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2018, 07:47:21 AM »
For cover letters, also mirror the *exact* language in the listing. They want someone who fits into x culture with y skill--you fit into x culture and have y skill!

Roadrunner53

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2018, 09:02:06 AM »
Here is a nice example of a cover letter. I like the formatting, the bullet points and first paragraph is good.

https://d.novoresume.com/images/docs/professional-cover-letter-template.png

Johnez, have you tried to contact some HVAC companies to inquire about their apprenticeship programs? My hub is a HVAC Technician with a contractor license. He learned most of it on the job and went to seminars and technical schools. The hub is retired now but this year alone, he has gotten letters and postcards with job offers all over our state. He probably received 10-12 so far. There is a real shortage of licensed HVAC people. I also see that some grocery stores have their own crews of HVAC guys. I see their vans parked at the stores all the time. There are lots of opportunities in HVAC. My hub worked in the field (residential) for about 12 years, then worked for a paper mill (commercial) and did their HVAC for a mill that was 20 acres under the roof. He then went to work for a school system to work on their HVAC then went to an HVAC company and did research on valves that went bad in the field and rebuilt them too. He would break them down and analyze what the problems were. He could have taken a position where he would fly around the country to trouble shoot the valves but was not interested. He would have been away every week and only home for weekends. I have often told him he would have been a good teacher at a technical school but he rejected that idea!

Bateaux

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1239
  • Location: Port Vincent
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2018, 10:50:34 AM »
As a warehouse employee, I wouldn't worry.  Lots of turnover in jobs like that.  Just start putting out applications.   You'll probably find a better job in your search.

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2018, 11:08:32 PM »
^Yeah, basically any job would be an improvement for sure.  It was a very well paying union job though, and it'll take a bit of time to match where I was at.

So, in retrospect, do you wish you would have quit before they fired you? 

I actually think the whole sending out resumes thing is the wrong approach.  You're better off finding a friend or an acquaintance who works at the company you want to work at, and then leveraging them as your in.  When you do it that way, the "interview" -- if there even is one -- is a complete formality.   

My way will involve speaking to more people and actual networking, which many people find revolting, but if you can do it, you're going to jump in front of all the chickens only sending out resumes. 

Keep your head up.  You're going to be fine.

Definitely wish I would have quit.  I wasn't expecting this outcome, however I'm over it and am moving with what I have going on now.  I agree with the assessment that sending out resumes and cover letters in a blitz attack isn't the best approach and have sent the feelers out to some of my contacts, some promising leads may pan out with time.

For cover letters, also mirror the *exact* language in the listing. They want someone who fits into x culture with y skill--you fit into x culture and have y skill!

90% of postings have basically the same requirements, which I tried to cram into my cover letter.  I'll try this with some of the more promising companies (the ones explicitly stating zero experience required). 

Overall, it is a good start. I do not think it is too long or wordy or needs bullet points, it is a cover letter. However, you do need to cut out some of the passive voice and be direct. Use action verbs when possible, "utilize', 'assist', etc. The other thing that stuck out to me is the order of the entire document. Rearrange it in a logical manner. State your purpose, education and work history briefly in the beginning paragraph. Follow up in the other paragraphs with your detailed experience. You have a good writing style and it will flow better once you work on it some more.

There are a few comments I quickly made, correct those and other similar mistakes along with rearranging it and it should be good.

Thanks, I've downloaded your suggestions and you're right about the passive language-it immediately detracts from the message and contributes to the longish feel of the cover letter.  I don't like the bullet points approach either because that to me sounds like a resume, but I guess the message there is that people tend to get lost in paragraphs when they're looking for the facts.

@Roadrunner53
There are tons of HVAC jobs out there, literally everywhere.  It's amazing and I can't wait till I get some experience, and that's the thing they all seem to require that-or a completed program/degree.  The opportunity is endless, and I've already checked out the requirements for the C-38 contractor's license because there really is a ton of work.  Sounds like your dad would have been a great teacher, has he considered teaching adjunct?  Some of my instructors are still working in the field and it's great to have people in the industry sharing knowledge as opposed to guys 10 years removed from the trade.

***

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, it's amazing how many people care here.  I'm going to take a little break from job hunting for now and reset.  It's been quite some time since I've been out of work (have worked continuously for 14 years and have never lost a job).  The stress and anxiety seems to be leaking out to my SO and driving her crazy so I'm going to also take a break from the screen for a while and enjoy my family. 


Roadrunner53

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2018, 06:08:48 AM »
Johnez, Just one little correction, it was my husband, not my dad, who has the HVAC experience.

It is very important to make your cover letter mesh with the potential employers advertisement. Go over the words in the advertisement and try to link those words to describe your talents. If they say they are looking for someone who is open minded, you might say in your cover letter that you are always open to new ideas and challenges. Whatever they say, you need to be able to use their words to describe yourself, you abilities, your desires to work at such a company that aligns with your talents.

I have been told that companies get hundreds of resumes for just one job. They want a cover letter that is brief, concise and somewhat boiled down. They do not want a long, long letter of your entire life. Your letter might have a 3 second chance of getting read if it is short and to the point.

My suggestion is that before you send out any more cover letters or resumes is to sit down at your computer and find, on the internet, some good examples of cover letters and resume's. Ask yourself if your cover letter and resume are as well put together. You may not like certain things like bullet points but they stand out and catch the readers attention. Make sure you have some space between paragraphs, make sure your sentences make sense. Make sure you spell check every single word. Do not depend on auto spell check, read each word one by one. Little mistakes can throw you out of the hiring process. They figure if you can't write a cover letter or resume with out errors, what mistakes will you make at work?

Also remember, that each cover letter must be tweaked for every job. The employer in each job advertisement may have different requirements that you need to address in your cover letter to tell them what they want to hear. For instance, they advertise for a person who can walk a tight rope, carrying a monkey on his back while juggling 3 balls. You must tell them that you have great balance, that you are well versed in load handling and that you can juggle many tasks simultaneously.

The cover letter is the cherry on top of the resume. This gives you the opportunity to tell them that you have all the skills they want and you are open to learning new skills and procedures for their unique organization.

Be sure to use the Thesaurus in Word to expand your vocabulary. You might want to use a variety of words that mean the same thing. Rather than say the word 'company' 4 times you might want to say corporation, manufacturer, organization, whatever seems appropriate.

Also, here is some information on using the right font: What font should resume be in?

When you are selecting a font for your resume, the font size should be between 10 and 12 to allow for readability. Your name (which should be placed at the top of your resume) can be slightly larger. Typically, you should use a readable, book-print font such as Times New Roman, Arial, or Calibri.


One more thing, here is an article of explaining the reason for getting fired at a job interview: https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/How-Do-I-Explain-Getting-Fired

I was laid off 3 times in my life. One job I worked 10 years, the second job 18 years and the third job 4 years. Finding a new job is stressful but finding a job is now your full time job! Good luck, I have been there!

Maenad

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
  • Location: Minneapolis 'burbs
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2018, 08:33:24 AM »
... focus on finishing my AA and let my SO bring in the bacon and get some health insurance.  This is actually a financially smart decision, but admitting failure on the job front bites.

This detail can actually give you a good story for why you aren't working if your unemployment lasts a few months - "I wanted to focus on finishing up my AA degree and giving that my full attention."

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2018, 04:11:32 PM »
^Yep, thankfully I've two forms of cover haha, thanks.

Ok guys, finished my new cover letter.  Planning on tailoring this to each employer, but this is going to be the basic format.  It's not perfect, but I've agonized over all the words and paragraphs for too long now.  This meshes with my resume, sharing info that companies are asking for (own tools, good driving history) and expanding on a few select things I bring to the table (customer service experience, experience with tools, etc).  I know it seems weird to put "no criminal history," but a large majority of ads have this as a requirement, dealing with public, schools, and gov't buildings necessitate this I guess.  Thanks everyone, especially @Roadrunner53 and @hoping2retire35  .

edit-oops, forgot to anonymize the company, going to take this down in a few days.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 04:21:46 PM by Johnez »

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4348
  • Age: 10
  • Location: USA
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2018, 04:27:48 PM »
Dropping the "I have no criminal record or DUIs" from the cover letter was a good idea.


Roadrunner53

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2018, 05:29:23 AM »
Johnez, Cover letter looks good!  The one thing I would leave out is "no criminal history". I know you have commented on government agencies, schools and others stating they want employees with no criminal records but if that is the case they will do a background check. They are not going to take someone's word for it. Just my opinion, not sure if others would agree.

Again, your latest cover letter is vastly improved. It flows nicely, has good eye appeal with the spaces between paragraphs and the bullet points.

Please keep us posted on your future success!

DavidAnnArbor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2018, 06:22:15 AM »
There's a severe shortage of all the trades in construction, electrical, plumbing, heating/cooling, carpentry, etc.

Kl285528

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 114
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2018, 07:42:41 AM »
yeah, I have a friend who owns a company that subcontracts on large government construction contracts - he bids on installation of large projects, like the new wing of the airport. Very hard for him to find workers that can pass criminal background and drug tests. Probably ok with referencing that in your line of work.

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2018, 06:14:29 PM »
Well fucking A I got my chance-woohoo! I'll be a working man as of tomorrow when I start. Thanks all for your contributions. Figured out a way to get past the firing, didn't mention it and told them plant is shutting down. Not a lie! The cover letter got particular praise, hiring manager liked that it was like a story and explained my growth well. I'm excited but am proceeding with bated breath. Thanks again everyone for guidance and encouragement.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 06:16:14 PM by Johnez »

Roadrunner53

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2018, 08:22:45 PM »
Johnez, can you tell us more? Is it an HVAC company?

SOOO, glad to hear you got a job! That is awesome!

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2018, 08:37:03 PM »
Refrigeration actually, exactly where I wanted to be. This company is a manufacturer of commercial kitchen refrigeration equipment (no hot equipment) and employs techs to maintain machines under warranty and perform preventive maintenance. It's rather limited in scope, no walk in freezers, no HVAC, no compressor racks, but it's a foot in the door of this industry and troubleshooting in general is useful in all of the sub sections of the HVAC/R field from my understanding. And yes, if I had a bottle of bubbly I'd pop the cork-pretty dang happy. If probabtion period works out, taking the family out for dinner for sure.

Telecaster

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1351
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2018, 08:49:18 PM »
Woot!  A win for the good guys! 

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Location: Southern California
Re: How does one find a job after getting fired?
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2018, 10:22:19 PM »
^Heck yeah!

@Roadrunner53 the point is moot now heh, but I noticed I didn't answer your question if I applied at any HVAC places-and yes I did. They seemed more amenable to training as well and I almost got hired by one company. All I know is I'm not closing any doors to an opportunity, might just end up in HVAC one day! Thanks again for sharing your *husband's* experience and advice.