Author Topic: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?  (Read 4661 times)

LindseyS

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How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« on: February 03, 2016, 02:04:16 PM »
Just wondering what everyone elses criteria is for when they purchase a new vehicle.

I am driving a 2004 Toyota Sienna minivan that has 288k miles on it.  In October the alternator went out and today the starter did.  While having it replaced we were told that it also needs a new timing belt and serpentine belt (this last one I am not completely sure of...)

I just wonder if this is the beginning of "one thing after another." I originally hoped to keep this vehicle for 1.5 more years at which point my oldest will be out of the house and I could more easily get something smaller.   I am hoping to spend $10k or less on whatever it is that I do get in the future and will be paying cash if that makes a difference.  The van I bought new around 12 years ago and paid on it for 4 years.  I now know better.  :-)

Thanks for any input!

HPstache

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2016, 02:50:10 PM »
If it actually needs a new timing belt, just get the work done and keep driving it.  You could just as easily buy a "new to you" used vehicle and find out that is due for a timing belt or has things that need fixing right away.  Do you have any maintenance records for your Sienna, do you know when the last time the timing belt was changed?  Is the mechanic basing this on a known time frame or did he visually inspect the timing belt?  How many miles have you owned it for?  The reason I ask is because timing belt change intervals are based on miles, and in your case if it would break there would be catostrophic engine damage (interference engine).

Gone Fishing

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2016, 03:07:44 PM »
Let's start with 288k is great.  Very few people get that out of a vehicle.  Personally, I don't fix things on a car unless they are A. Broken and B. Prevent it from driving or being legal.  So that would rule out the timing and serpentine belt for me unless I could see obvious tears, shredding, or excessive wear.  Yes, a broken timing belt might very well trash your engine, but with 288k, the replacement belts (especially if they want to throw in a water pump), would cost nearly 50% of the value of the car.  Not worth it if they look just fine.   

I am actually pretty willing to pay for most readily identifiable issues that do not involve replacing an entire engine or transmission.  I am not willing to pay for "exploratory surgery" or part swapping to solve mysterious problems.  We sold a still running Taurus due to electrical gremlins that resulting in random stalling several mechanics offered no better solutions than swapping parts and hoping for the best.  My only other sale was a Civic that got towed off with a shot engine.  If I can stay under $1k a year in repairs I am at least even with the depreciation on a newer vehicle (and the insurance is cheaper, as well).  So unless the vehicle is a gas hog, totally unreliable with no identifiable solution, or needs a $1000+ repair, I usually keep it.   

We've got a 2002 Sienna with 235k+ miles, original timing belt as far as I know and even the plugs for that matter. It needs a catalytic converter to pass inspection.  I will probably have it replaced.  It did break a serpentine once and was still drivable for 5-10 miles until the battery died and it was no longer able to run.  We watch AAA deals closely and just got a year for $19.  Comes in handy from time to time.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 03:12:25 PM by So Close »

theSlowTurtle

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2016, 03:11:20 PM »
If you aren't familiar with Joshua's podcast its great. He did an episode on whether to repair or no  https://radicalpersonalfinance.com/255-how-to-decide-if-you-should-repair-your-car-or-replace-it/

ketchup

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2016, 03:51:11 PM »
I'd fix the car, and do the maintenance.

288k is fantastic.  It can do a bit more from the sounds of things.  And with $10k budgeted for a new car, you're looking at a pretty long-term car (certainly more than a 1.5 year car), and it would make sense to get a smaller car with that in a year and a half, since that's what you'll want then.

I hope that made sense.  Basically you want to put off the replacement of the van until you no longer need a van, which won't be too much longer.

gooki

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 12:40:11 AM »
There's a high chance it'll survive the next 1.5 years without the preventative maintenance.

If it was $500 sure I'd do it. If it's $1000 plus I'd risk it.

JLee

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 12:46:20 PM »
Just wondering what everyone elses criteria is for when they purchase a new vehicle.

I am driving a 2004 Toyota Sienna minivan that has 288k miles on it.  In October the alternator went out and today the starter did.  While having it replaced we were told that it also needs a new timing belt and serpentine belt (this last one I am not completely sure of...)

I just wonder if this is the beginning of "one thing after another." I originally hoped to keep this vehicle for 1.5 more years at which point my oldest will be out of the house and I could more easily get something smaller.   I am hoping to spend $10k or less on whatever it is that I do get in the future and will be paying cash if that makes a difference.  The van I bought new around 12 years ago and paid on it for 4 years.  I now know better.  :-)

Thanks for any input!

Starter = 288k is a long life. You might get 200k out of another one.
Alternator, same.

Timing belt = routine maintenance, anything with a timing belt will need that changed. If you haven't done this and you got 288k miles of it, thank your lucky stars and all the gods ever created!
Serpentine belt - same; this is routine maintenance.

Chris22

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 03:25:01 PM »
Serpentine belt can, in general (not sure about this car in particular) be done in a driveway by any idiot who knows which end of a wrench to hold.  Which also means it can be done by a mechanic for probably +/- $100.  Or free if you get the timing belt done (ie, I'd only pay parts for the belt, not labor, and a belt should be +/- $20.)

Timing belt is a much more involved process.  On the Sienna, the engine is an "interference" design, meaning if the belt breaks, the valves hit the pistons and you buy a new engine.  Personally, that's not something I'd mess around with, I'd either get it done/do it myself, or sell the van.  The interval for a change is 90k miles, so you're either 18k over or 200k over (or, I suppose, 108k over?)  A timing belt break would be catastrophic, engine seize, and you stop right there, no more moving.  I wouldn't drive a car on the highway much more if I'm 18k or more over the interval on that one. 

So really, up to you to pay or not, but I would suggest your options are fix or sell; I would not suggest you continue on driving it anywhere it would cause an issue (highway) if it was suddenly dead. 

Glenstache

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 05:51:57 PM »
Given the mileage and that your driving logistics/needs are going to change in a year or two, I'd say fix it. But, you can go with a rebuilt or cheapo starter and alternator instead of OEM to reduce cost of parts. At the age of the car, they don't need to last 150k+ more miles like the OEM would. As Chris said, the serpentine belt is easy to change (I recently did one in my 01 toyota and it was awkward, but not hard and  a$20 part). As for the timing belt, this is probably about a $600 repair. Toyota makes two types of engines: interference and non-interference engines. If yours is an interference engine and the belt snaps, the pistons will hit and destroy the valves, and the engine will likely seize. If the belt snaps on a non-interference engine, the engine will misfire a bit and stop running and you  will go nowhere. I'm not sure which you have. If it has a timing chain (as opposed to belt), then that should only be replaced if it is actually rattling or showing signs of significant wear. A broken timing chain is similar to and a bit worse than a snapped belt on an interference engine. Timing chain replacement on Toyotas tends to be an expensive repair because it is labor intensive (12-14 hours plus parts).

Larabeth

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 11:03:05 PM »
Sounds like you can fix it without a huge expense and then drive it for awhile longer.  Though you may want to decide on an amount you're willing to spend and when you hit that number, be done with it.

I gave up my Honda when the transmission went out for the second time in 5 years. 

JLee

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2016, 12:23:44 AM »
A broken timing belt wouldn't cause an engine to seize. Catastrophic piston and valve damage, however (on an interference engine) is almost guaranteed.

Your Sienna has a 3.3 liter 3MZ-FE V6. It is an interference engine with a timing belt.

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2016, 10:25:31 PM »
Your Sienna is worth one price running. It is worth a much lower amount if you run it until the engine is trashed. It is worth something in between if you sell it running but in need of a timing belt.

If you are the type that trades-in your vehicles then trade it in now and get the next vehicle that fills your needs.

I look at vehicle ownership a little differently than other people. Many people look at the resale or trade-in value of a vehicle when deciding what to do about a repair.

I look at how much the car is costing me per year to operate (I do most of my own repairs) vs what a replacement vehicle would cost me (cash or payments).

I'd drive the vehicle as long as the engine is solid - not suffering from mechanical failure i.e. bearings worn or piston rings worn or valve guides worn. Everything else bolts onto the outside of the engine. Gaskets, belts and things like starters/alternators are not expensive.

Also judge how good the transmission is. With a manual transmission - worn bearings or synchronizers are easy to notice. With automatics - does it shift at appropriate times or do the clutches slip?

Lastly - what condition is the body and interior? I don't like to drive vehicles that are suffering from a myriad of appearance issues like torn upholstery or rust or collision damage. Those kinds of things only get worse.

Occasionally I spend a couple of hours and detail the car end to end and decide if I still like it.

aFrugalFather

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2016, 10:35:16 PM »
Alternatator is standard wear and tear, and Timing belt is also regular preventative maintainance.  If the transmission was going or the engine needed replacement then that is probably the time to really look hard at whether to retire the car.  Just my 2 cents. 

mrpercentage

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2016, 10:46:09 PM »
When the repairs will cost more than a year of payments and the odds are high that you will need another repair in a year.

Otherwise stated, if you are making the payment to drive a new car, but its just the inconvenient repairs on an old one--- buy a new or newer one.

It would look like this

Kelly blue book 3,200
Repairs 3,000
Millage 179,000
Average year 25,000 miles
equals buy a new car

MayDay

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2016, 10:57:36 AM »
We have an 04 sienna with 185k miles. We just put its third timing belt on, to the tune of 400$, and our mechanic said the old one was pretty shredded.

Between tires, timing belt, water pump, a repair to the exhaust system, and one other issue this year, we averaged~120 a month in repairs for 2015. But that's still way less than buying a new van, and we should be good for a while now.

Our goal is to get about 8-10 more years out of her, but we'll see. At this point as long as the repair is under 1k, we'll do it.

BlueMR2

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2016, 03:53:51 PM »
I've replied to this types of queries before with different answers depending on my state of mind.  However, it's all been academic for me.  "When do I think I should get a new vehicle" as I've never made the decision and pulled the trigger on a new one.  I can however offer my thoughts on why I've kept ones that most others would have replaced:

I've owned my current daily driver for 20 years as of this month (and it was 5 years old then).  I thought I'd replace it at 250k miles, but that's come and gone.  I'd contemplated replacing it when the engine died at 180k, but while the car was only "worth" $2500 and a new engine was $4500, there's no way I could buy a $4500 car off a lot that was in comparable shape (especially once the new engine was in).

I also own a 22 year old "fun car" which I'm currently looking at $12k in repairs (worst case as we're still trying to determine exactly what all is wrong, but we suspect a failing engine and a large chunk of failing driveline).  Once again I think about scrapping it (it's "worth" $1500 now in this shape).  However, I can't even begin to get something used that's comparable, once the new parts and the increase in life expectancy from them are factored in, for $12k.  Now, if I'd decided to go "practical", I *could* use this as a great opportunity to get a NICE little CR-Z instead.  However, I don't need to go from 400hp down to 80 as this vehicle is used so little and while the CR-Z is a great little practical commuter, it's not exactly "fun"...

alsoknownasDean

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2016, 04:57:39 AM »
Usually when the repair costs are more than the value of the car, although it depends on the nature of the repair.

However, in the case of 'repair', I don't consider stuff like timing belt replacements and the like repair, they're just scheduled maintenance. I bought my car a bit over a year ago for $3000 and spent $1300 on a major service a year later. Still happy to keep it for a long time.

In your case, I'd probably go ahead and get the timing belt and serpentine belt done (probably less labor to do both at once). Then the van should keep on trucking for another year or two until you're ready to replace it with something else.

Chris22

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Re: How do you decide when to get a new vehicle?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 10:21:33 AM »
A broken timing belt wouldn't cause an engine to seize. Catastrophic piston and valve damage, however (on an interference engine) is almost guaranteed.

You're right, I misspoke, but it's a distinction without a real difference.  If a timing belt lets go in an interference engine going 65 down the highway, it's going to stop running immediately, and the car will coast to a stop with catastrophic damage.  This isn't one of those "oh crap, let's limp it to the next exit" type things like a serpentine belt could be.  This is a "you're done, right here" event.