Hey, Trump Voters

[MrMoogle]

*snip*
That's probably why the white kids were chanting this while the Latino kids were crying. You know because they couldn't fathom the cost.

That's fine, just don't call me ignorant when I asked for your help.  I just see this as freedom of speech.

I find it surprising and a little disturbing that you would think kids in this situation were not practicing intimidation that was racially charged. If you were surrounded by Muslims yelling "Jesus lover!" at you would you be thinking hey, freedom of religion! Or would you find it intimidating and scary, despite being factually correct (if you are Christian)?

Thanks for the last few comments.  I really wasn't connecting the one line responses. I know a few Latinos who are for securing our borders, so when someone says "build a wall" I'm not seeing it as something (necessarily) racially motivated.  But yes, if it was a bunch of white kids chanting it at Latinos, whether documented or not, is intimidating.  I was missing the context, then when it was provided, I didn't put 2 and 2 together.  Thanks for spelling it out for me.

To me, it's pretty obvious, that the legal means of immigration are not sufficient for the work demand that we have.  Our current process is too slow and our limits are too low.  We need both highly skilled immigrants and lowly skilled ones, since those who have been around for a few generations tend not to be willing to do the same work.  I also think this will help secure our borders.  By reducing the flow of people crossing illegally, it is easier to stop the rest.

Not to be mean but I thought after explaining that it was happening at a middle school, you would have put 2+2 together. My bad for not going into further detail. Just thought it was blatantly obvious. I guess some get it some don't. ( :

I should have gotten it.  I blame work.  Being a holiday, I don't have much, but I keep getting these little mini assignments, so my head has been all over the place today.

[TexasRunner]

I should have gotten it.  I blame work.  Being a holiday, I don't have much, but I keep getting these little mini assignments, so my head has been all over the place today.

How dare you have a job and focus on it when we're trying to salve all the worlds problems!!!!1!!1!1!!!111!!!   
~sarcasm off

:)

[MrMoogle]

I should have gotten it.  I blame work.  Being a holiday, I don't have much, but I keep getting these little mini assignments, so my head has been all over the place today.

How dare you have a job and focus on it when we're trying to salve all the worlds problems!!!!1!!1!1!!!111!!!   
~sarcasm off

:)

I'm the only one around, and my weekend starts in 10 minutes!  Woohoo!

[Mariposa]

I should have gotten it.  I blame work.  Being a holiday, I don't have much, but I keep getting these little mini assignments, so my head has been all over the place today.

Kudos to you, MrMoogle, for your willingness to re-frame your thinking, and publicly saying so. So many problems are caused by people who remain stubbornly oblivious, even after 2 + 2 are put together for them repeatedly.

[Kris]

I should have gotten it.  I blame work.  Being a holiday, I don't have much, but I keep getting these little mini assignments, so my head has been all over the place today.

Kudos to you, MrMoogle, for your willingness to re-frame your thinking, and publicly saying so. So many problems are caused by people who remain stubbornly oblivious, even after 2 + 2 are put together for them repeatedly.

I want to second this. If more were willing to think, listen, and re-frame our thinking, we probably wouldn't be in the polarized cesspit we are in right now.

[Glenstache]

If it makes you feel any less bad, Hillary supporters would've been no less dangerous if Hillary had won.  Perhaps not using the exact same means of heckling people on the streets, but by other means, such as:

• Importing hundreds of thousands of people into this country, a of significant minority of whom absolutely hate this country and will pose all kinds of dangers.
• Legalizing illegal immigrants.

• Promoting subtle racism against the majority white community.[/b]  I'm not white myself, but any kind of racism is bad for the society.

This was a pick-your-poison election.  I picked mine :-(

‘When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression’

I am white, and nothing in the Democratic Party platform or candidates felt like racism to me. I agree with the second part of that bullet, but do not see it applying here.

[frugalnacho]

God damn racist canadians.

It was in California. Maybe there was a follow-up story - it turned out to be Canadians behind it?

Windsor is a canadian city across the border from detroit (where I live).  I didn't know there was a windsor is canada.  I was perplexed how the story was even relevant so I made a joke about it.  I suppose it makes more sense now that I realize it was in california.  I double checked the article and it doesn't seem to mention the state (or country). 

[monarda]

I absolutely denounce anyone being sexist and/or racist in any situation, including the results of the election.  Assault is bad.  There, is everything fixed now? 

Denouncing the offenders isn't helping anyone.  The people doing this stuff don't care about people denouncing them.  That might be why you haven't seen a whole lot about it.  I will say I've seen multiple Trump and Hillary supporters post about both the riots and the assaults and denounce both.  Lots of posts about coming together. 

The people creating narratives of fake attacks certainly aren't adding sympathy to their cause.  I've seen multiple people on facebook post the story about the Nazi flag flying over someone's house as evidence of how horrible Trump supporters are and that this is "Trump's America."  It turns out it was an anti-Trump person making a political statement, but plenty of these same people are using it as "evidence" that anyone who supports Trump is a racist sexist Nazi. 

Yes, it's horrible that certain groups of people feel threatened.  I'm not entirely sure what to do to help other than be a good person to them.

I disagree that denouncing wouldn't help. Maybe less by us in an anonymous internet forum, but it would sure help if it came from Trump himself. Similar to how it was good of Obama to call for calm during a rally where people were starting to get heated over a Trump supporter in their midst.

As for what you can do, denouncing in real life if you see anything and taking the feeling seriously among your minority friends helps. Maybe I am incorrect, but I do not get the impression that Trump supporters are quickly removing their signs from yards/vehicles because they are worried about being beat up or their homes/cars vandalized. Violence on all sides should be denounced, but my white husband isn't worried about being mistaken for a Trump supporter in our bluish-purple area while my Pakistani friend who lives in very blue Chicago is terrified for his family-for good reason, as one of his friends there experienced anti-muslim intimidation. This is not to say that everyone is running around terrified all the time, nor that assault can't happen to certain people but can to others. But to say that I think about it more as a woman than my husband does? Yes. And that any threat of intimidation, assault or harassment has gone up since the election? Yes.

+1
I'm waiting for Trump himself to denounce the hatred.

[RosieTR]

You've probably noticed a lot of your fellow Americans are scared. Particularly those who aren't white, straight, or Christian. Since you voted for Trump and you believe in him, I wanted to ask you instead of assuming: why do you think we should be celebrating with you? why shouldn't we be scared? what do you say to your fellow Trump voters who are now using his victory as a license to heckle and intimidate those of us who are minorities?

This isn't a trick question. I'm honestly asking. You're my fellow Americans, and I've always had faith in you.

I'm feeling that faith may be misplaced, especially given the reactions on this thread. So far I see the responses are basically:
-you don't have to celebrate but you shouldn't be scared. Everything will be fine and you're taking things out of proportion
-you shouldn't be afraid because you aren't breaking the law, and those who break the law will face the consequences
-it's not Trump's fault that people have taken his inflammatory language to heart
-Trump supporters aren't really racist/sexist any more than "the left" and besides see previous points
-Trump didn't really mean any of that, look at his 100 day platform
-At least one allegation against Trump supporter violence has been shown to be false so they probably all are

I think therefore that the Trump supporters on this thread don't care that there are real reasons that non-white, female, and LGBTQ people are worried. Some of it is policy-women are panicking and calling their GYNs for IUDs before it's too late. Repubs have been trying to defund/shut down Planned Parenthood for a long time, and an unintended pregnancy has huge implications in a given woman's life. LBGTQ are worried about the potential status of their marriage, trans-folks are worried about things like getting IDs with their desired gender on them, continued ability to be on hormones, and of course the whole bathroom thing. Muslims are worried about being investigated, possibly being made to "register" which Trump specifically mentioned during the campaign. Anyone of Hispanic lineage is worried about other people dismissing their right to be in the country or asking to provide proof of residency/citizenship regardless (this happened in AZ a few years ago with one of their bills too). Many black people are worried about increases in incarceration and militarization by police.
Will all of this come to fruition? Probably not. But it was all stuff that Trump implied or specifically mentioned during the campaign.

Aside from policy concerns and rights, there's the issue of an uptick in violence against minority groups and just general intimidation. Is it illegal for someone to say "grab her pussy" to a woman on the bus or subway? I'm not sure. Is it intimidating? Of course. These things ARE happening, and because one or two are found to be false does not justify dismissing all of them. Most of these have pictures and some have video, so Trump supporters who are denying this is happening are just being completely insensitive.

A Trump voter who likes his policies (infrastructure, trade, tax reform, etc) but abhors the racism would show this by saying something like "yes, I like a lot of Trump's plans but I really wish he would denounce racist and sexist actions done in his name, and tell his supporters the victory isn't an excuse to do these things." Instead we see justification of it, or redirecting, or trying to somehow lay the blame on Hilllary, Obama or the general "left".

Given all that, I'm not sure I buy the argument that Trump supporters are by and large not racist, sexist jerks but rather just support other aspects of his campaign. If the racism and sexist does bother them, they are pretty quiet about denouncing it which doesn't really help. Nor does trying to tell someone who has legitimate fear that it's baseless, when there's evidence otherwise.

FWIW, I will say that there is a video of several young black men beating an older white man, possibly due to evidence of the older man's Trump support. The attack was terrible and those men should be prosecuted. There is no excuse for that kind of thing, and I hope justice is served and the old man is OK. Nor is there an excuse to destroy property or be violent while protesting Trump. Marching is fine, burning your own stuff is probably fine depending on the circumstances, burning other people's stuff and throwing rocks is NOT fine.

This. All of this. And everything else RosieTR has said on this thread.

Thanks, DCA! I hope you are doing OK!

[Mariposa]

Thanks, DCA! I hope you are doing OK!

When you have personal experience of being harassed and intimidated for being Other, it's hard not to take this election personally. I genuinely thought things were were getting better, that we were learning to live together more harmoniously in our diversity.

Hope you are doing OK, too!

[oldtoyota]

If you're not breaking any laws (and this includes being here illegally), then I don't see why you have anything to be worried about.

History would suggest otherwise.

[Metric Mouse]

I genuinely thought things were were getting better, that we were learning to live together more harmoniously in our diversity.

What gave you this impression, if I may ask? It seems to me in the past few years race relations have been getting worse. Far more riots, demonstrations, marches, and protests than I remember in the decade before that.

[GuitarStv]

I genuinely thought things were were getting better, that we were learning to live together more harmoniously in our diversity.

What gave you this impression, if I may ask? It seems to me in the past few years race relations have been getting worse. Far more riots, demonstrations, marches, and protests than I remember in the decade before that.

Are the riots and demonstrations happening more frequently because oppressed people feel less afraid of being quietly killed / beaten / ignored by the minders of an oppressive system, or because the system is now becoming more oppressive though?

[vern]

I'm waiting for Hillary herself to denounce the hatred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVE0JekVvt0

[Metric Mouse]

I genuinely thought things were were getting better, that we were learning to live together more harmoniously in our diversity.

What gave you this impression, if I may ask? It seems to me in the past few years race relations have been getting worse. Far more riots, demonstrations, marches, and protests than I remember in the decade before that.

Are the riots and demonstrations happening more frequently because oppressed people feel less afraid of being quietly killed / beaten / ignored by the minders of an oppressive system, or because the system is now becoming more oppressive though?

Interesting question. But if relations are not improving, then tactics should change and not continue along the path if degradation. I fail to see how people that think things are getting better would simultaneously feel the need to demonstrate and state that things are not getting better.

[Mariposa]

I genuinely thought things were were getting better, that we were learning to live together more harmoniously in our diversity.

What gave you this impression, if I may ask? It seems to me in the past few years race relations have been getting worse. Far more riots, demonstrations, marches, and protests than I remember in the decade before that.

Are the riots and demonstrations happening more frequently because oppressed people feel less afraid of being quietly killed / beaten / ignored by the minders of an oppressive system, or because the system is now becoming more oppressive though?

Interesting question. But if relations are not improving, then tactics should change and not continue along the path if degradation. I fail to see how people that think things are getting better would simultaneously feel the need to demonstrate and state that things are not getting better.

Given the current incendiary environment, I'm seriously questioning whether things are getting better or not. Lots of people have said they felt put upon to adopt politically correct language; their hearts and minds haven't changed at all. It's depressing, and we're at an impasse.

[GuitarStv]

I genuinely thought things were were getting better, that we were learning to live together more harmoniously in our diversity.

What gave you this impression, if I may ask? It seems to me in the past few years race relations have been getting worse. Far more riots, demonstrations, marches, and protests than I remember in the decade before that.

Are the riots and demonstrations happening more frequently because oppressed people feel less afraid of being quietly killed / beaten / ignored by the minders of an oppressive system, or because the system is now becoming more oppressive though?

Interesting question. But if relations are not improving, then tactics should change and not continue along the path if degradation. I fail to see how people that think things are getting better would simultaneously feel the need to demonstrate and state that things are not getting better.

Well, to give you an example . . . there are very few public protests in North Korea.  Seeing the people protest things on a semi-regular basis would be an indicator that the government has significantly relaxed control over the population.  It doesn't mean that things are perfect (food shortages due to rationing are pretty common through the country for example, as is police brutality, nepotism in government organizations, etc.), it means that things are no longer so bad that people fear to protest.

While things in the US are nowhere near as bad as in North Korea, there are areas of the country that have a long standing history of police brutality towards minorities . . . and this breeds the kind of fear that can have a muzzling effect on public protest.  It's entirely possible that more protests are a sign of increased trust in the system (or at least increased belief that they will be afforded the rights outlined in the constitution).

[former player]

I genuinely thought things were were getting better, that we were learning to live together more harmoniously in our diversity.

What gave you this impression, if I may ask? It seems to me in the past few years race relations have been getting worse. Far more riots, demonstrations, marches, and protests than I remember in the decade before that.

Are the riots and demonstrations happening more frequently because oppressed people feel less afraid of being quietly killed / beaten / ignored by the minders of an oppressive system, or because the system is now becoming more oppressive though?

Interesting question. But if relations are not improving, then tactics should change and not continue along the path if degradation. I fail to see how people that think things are getting better would simultaneously feel the need to demonstrate and state that things are not getting better.

Well, to give you an example . . . there are very few public protests in North Korea.  Seeing the people protest things on a semi-regular basis would be an indicator that the government has significantly relaxed control over the population.  It doesn't mean that things are perfect (food shortages due to rationing are pretty common through the country for example, as is police brutality, nepotism in government organizations, etc.), it means that things are no longer so bad that people fear to protest.

While things in the US are nowhere near as bad as in North Korea, there are areas of the country that have a long standing history of police brutality towards minorities . . . and this breeds the kind of fear that can have a muzzling effect on public protest.  It's entirely possible that more protests are a sign of increased trust in the system (or at least increased belief that they will be afforded the rights outlined in the constitution).

You severely understate the horror that is North Korea by stating that things are not "perfect", and I see no trace that you were using litotes.  You can currently number public protests in North Korea at "none".

In the areas of the US with a long standing history of police brutality, increased protests after a Trump election seem more likely to be fueled by increased desperation than they do increased trust.

[Jack]

I genuinely thought things were were getting better, that we were learning to live together more harmoniously in our diversity.

What gave you this impression, if I may ask? It seems to me in the past few years race relations have been getting worse. Far more riots, demonstrations, marches, and protests than I remember in the decade before that.

Are the riots and demonstrations happening more frequently because oppressed people feel less afraid of being quietly killed / beaten / ignored by the minders of an oppressive system, or because the system is now becoming more oppressive though?

Interesting question. But if relations are not improving, then tactics should change and not continue along the path if degradation. I fail to see how people that think things are getting better would simultaneously feel the need to demonstrate and state that things are not getting better.

Well, to give you an example . . . there are very few public protests in North Korea.  Seeing the people protest things on a semi-regular basis would be an indicator that the government has significantly relaxed control over the population.  It doesn't mean that things are perfect (food shortages due to rationing are pretty common through the country for example, as is police brutality, nepotism in government organizations, etc.), it means that things are no longer so bad that people fear to protest.

While things in the US are nowhere near as bad as in North Korea, there are areas of the country that have a long standing history of police brutality towards minorities . . . and this breeds the kind of fear that can have a muzzling effect on public protest.  It's entirely possible that more protests are a sign of increased trust in the system (or at least increased belief that they will be afforded the rights outlined in the constitution).

That, plus technology. It used to be that they learned not to speak out about the police brutality because there was no "proof" (and testimony from minorities was ignored). Now, they feel empowered to try again because of things like smartphone videos (at least until they realize that racists are perfectly capable of ignoring blatant video evidence too... but hopefully there aren't enough racists left for that tactic to work).

[KBecks]

Given the current incendiary environment, I'm seriously questioning whether things are getting better or not. Lots of people have said they felt put upon to adopt politically correct language; their hearts and minds haven't changed at all. It's depressing, and we're at an impasse.

Things change very slowly.  Treatment of women?  Look at the success of the internet porn industry.  Will it ever change?  No.    Same with racism, people will instinctually notice differences,  and our history from slavery still haunts us, it haunts us for generations.  It is getting better, but slowly, slowly.  Many people don't understand or are afraid of homosexuality and transgender because they are wired different. 

Now, will people behave nicely?  Most of the time.  Are some jerks? Oh yes.   For many racists they understand you can't talk about it in public but what's in someone's heart, you cannot control.  You can only inspire. 

[Mariposa]

Given the current incendiary environment, I'm seriously questioning whether things are getting better or not. Lots of people have said they felt put upon to adopt politically correct language; their hearts and minds haven't changed at all. It's depressing, and we're at an impasse.

Things change very slowly.  Treatment of women?  Look at the success of the internet porn industry.  Will it ever change?  No.    Same with racism, people will instinctually notice differences,  and our history from slavery still haunts us, it haunts us for generations.  It is getting better, but slowly, slowly.  Many people don't understand or are afraid of homosexuality and transgender because they are wired different. 

Now, will people behave nicely?  Most of the time.  Are some jerks? Oh yes.   For many racists they understand you can't talk about it in public but what's in someone's heart, you cannot control.  You can only inspire.

You're right.

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice." --MLK

[Driko]

I've heard things from both sides that are scary no doubt.

I have seen (I don't have cable and I work a ton so my information is limited) a video of an older white male being beaten by a group of black males while onlookers yelled he voted for trump. They beat him and stole his car.

I saw another video where "black power" and  "kill whitey" were painted on public property.

Videos on the other end of the spectrum were of white kids yelling about building a wall and Latino kids crying. (I am part Latino and I believe in LEGAL immigration, like my family and many of my close friends have done. Many of whom are Brazilian and have come to this country legally. Is it insensitive of the white kids to yell stuff like that? Yeah, but they are also kids and hopefully they have adults (parents and teachers) who are talking to them about it.

Until we can realize that we are all humans and we are all born the same and all die the same we will probably continue to have problems, but I don't personally buy into mass panic that the media tries to sell us. The fact that people think Trump will be like Hitler or another evil dictator is just kind of insane to me. Will he be a good president? Who knows, but I doubt he will be much better or worse than all the others we have had.

I honestly don't think the public has anything to fear from Trump. The public should fear the rest of the public.

[Metric Mouse]

The fact that people think Trump will be like Hitler or another evil dictator is just kind of insane to me. Will he be a good president? Who knows, but I doubt he will be much better or worse than all the others we have had.

I honestly don't think the public has anything to fear from Trump. The public should fear the rest of the public.

+1. 

[VladTheImpaler]

A thoughtful look at the issues:

https://youtu.be/xCU7I7CSc8c

[SomedayStache]

It's normal to be scared and upset when your candidate loses.  But you are strong.  You control your life, not the President.  Go be awesome and in time you won't feel as scared and worried as you do now.  You will be OK.  You can be awesome because it that is under your control.  The government doesn't own your life, you do.

I know you mean this in a positive light. I would like to explain that this feels very different from normal disappointment and upset when the hoped-for candidate loses. I am comparing this to GWB's win in 2000, which was similarly close, with the popular vote for Gore and electoral for Bush. Plus all the drama of the hanging chads and Supreme Court. Also, in 2004 when we were in war (which I had protested) still felt like normal disappointment.

I didn't have trouble sleeping or eating for several days after those elections like I have in the past few days. Then I had a feeling of disappointment, yes. But this feeling of dread and anxiety? No, not like this. Did the Trump supporters here feel like this when Obama won in 2008 and 2012? Or just basically disappointed?

Seconding everything Rosie says here.

[music lover]

I'm waiting for Hillary herself to denounce the hatred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVE0JekVvt0

Hillary won't say a thing...now that she has lost, the people that supported her will be ignored because they have outlived their usefulness. They weren't real people to her...they were just votes.

[KBecks]

<<Did the Trump supporters here feel like this when Obama won in 2008 and 2012?>>

Yes, similar fear and dread, and mainly stirred up by the media organizations that profit from causing fear and anxiety and drama.   I remember every Obama cabinet pick causing more anxiety in the base, too.  So this is a playbook I've seen before.

We made it through two Obama terms and the world did not end.  There are things I am fearful of, but they are things that no President has control over. 

[sol]

There are things I am fearful of, but they are things that no President has control over.

So, nuclear war isn't on your list of fears?

[Gin1984]

The fact that people think Trump will be like Hitler or another evil dictator is just kind of insane to me. Will he be a good president? Who knows, but I doubt he will be much better or worse than all the others we have had.

I honestly don't think the public has anything to fear from Trump. The public should fear the rest of the public.

+1.

Except that his election has correlated with an increase in hate crimes against minorities and women.  He emboldened his base and his base is harming people.  And he is not doing a damn thing to stop it.

[Kris]

The fact that people think Trump will be like Hitler or another evil dictator is just kind of insane to me. Will he be a good president? Who knows, but I doubt he will be much better or worse than all the others we have had.

I honestly don't think the public has anything to fear from Trump. The public should fear the rest of the public.

+1.

Except that his election has correlated with an increase in hate crimes against minorities and women.  He emboldened his base and his base is harming people.  And he is not doing a damn thing to stop it.

Nope. Radio silence from him.

But those terrible Hamilton actors? SNL? THOSE are the burning social issues Trump chooses to denounce.

[bacchi]

<<Did the Trump supporters here feel like this when Obama won in 2008 and 2012?>>

Yes, similar fear and dread, and mainly stirred up by the media organizations that profit from causing fear and anxiety and drama.   I remember every Obama cabinet pick causing more anxiety in the base, too.  So this is a playbook I've seen before.

We made it through two Obama terms and the world did not end.  There are things I am fearful of, but they are things that no President has control over.

When Obama was running, his own party members didn't distance themselves because he was a loose cannon. The party leader in the House didn't refuse to say his name. Endorsements didn't unendorse because he made a video about "pussy grabbing."

Yeah, exactly the same.

[Kris]

<<Did the Trump supporters here feel like this when Obama won in 2008 and 2012?>>

Yes, similar fear and dread, and mainly stirred up by the media organizations that profit from causing fear and anxiety and drama.   I remember every Obama cabinet pick causing more anxiety in the base, too.  So this is a playbook I've seen before.

We made it through two Obama terms and the world did not end.  There are things I am fearful of, but they are things that no President has control over.

When Obama was running, his own party members didn't distance themselves because he was a loose cannon. The party leader in the House didn't refuse to say his name. Endorsements didn't unendorse because he made a video about "pussy grabbing."

Yeah, exactly the same.

I don't really remember Obama implying he wouldn't accept the results unless he won, or suggesting to his supporters that they should go out in the streets and riot if he lost, either. Huh.

[MrMoogle]

<<Did the Trump supporters here feel like this when Obama won in 2008 and 2012?>>

Yes, similar fear and dread, and mainly stirred up by the media organizations that profit from causing fear and anxiety and drama.   I remember every Obama cabinet pick causing more anxiety in the base, too.  So this is a playbook I've seen before.

We made it through two Obama terms and the world did not end.  There are things I am fearful of, but they are things that no President has control over.

When Obama was running, his own party members didn't distance themselves because he was a loose cannon. The party leader in the House didn't refuse to say his name. Endorsements didn't unendorse because he made a video about "pussy grabbing."

Yeah, exactly the same.

I don't really remember Obama implying he wouldn't accept the results unless he won, or suggesting to his supporters that they should go out in the streets and riot if he lost, either. Huh.

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

[Gin1984]

<<Did the Trump supporters here feel like this when Obama won in 2008 and 2012?>>

Yes, similar fear and dread, and mainly stirred up by the media organizations that profit from causing fear and anxiety and drama.   I remember every Obama cabinet pick causing more anxiety in the base, too.  So this is a playbook I've seen before.

We made it through two Obama terms and the world did not end.  There are things I am fearful of, but they are things that no President has control over.

When Obama was running, his own party members didn't distance themselves because he was a loose cannon. The party leader in the House didn't refuse to say his name. Endorsements didn't unendorse because he made a video about "pussy grabbing."

Yeah, exactly the same.

I don't really remember Obama implying he wouldn't accept the results unless he won, or suggesting to his supporters that they should go out in the streets and riot if he lost, either. Huh.

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

No, they are not equivalent.  People, not liberals, people are feeling fear.  They are coming to terms with that fact that about half of those who voted are accepting of a rapist bigot being our president.  That the behaviors done by Trump, sexual assault and encouraging other types of assault are acceptable.  We are hearing friends and neighbors who have been attacked since the election.  Yes, I did not like when Bush won, but I did not think I, my family, and my friends were at risk of being harmed because of it.  There is harm here.

[Kris]

<<Did the Trump supporters here feel like this when Obama won in 2008 and 2012?>>

Yes, similar fear and dread, and mainly stirred up by the media organizations that profit from causing fear and anxiety and drama.   I remember every Obama cabinet pick causing more anxiety in the base, too.  So this is a playbook I've seen before.

We made it through two Obama terms and the world did not end.  There are things I am fearful of, but they are things that no President has control over.

When Obama was running, his own party members didn't distance themselves because he was a loose cannon. The party leader in the House didn't refuse to say his name. Endorsements didn't unendorse because he made a video about "pussy grabbing."

Yeah, exactly the same.

I don't really remember Obama implying he wouldn't accept the results unless he won, or suggesting to his supporters that they should go out in the streets and riot if he lost, either. Huh.

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

Seriously? You don't think that the candidate's messages, and how he telegraphs what his supporters should do has any effect on how people feel after an election?

[Northwestie]

I'm somewhat assuaged by the thought of the prolific pace that will be set by political cartoonists during this administration and the continuance of Alec Baldwin's appearances on STL. 

[RosieTR]

I think therefore that the Trump supporters on this thread don't care that there are real reasons that non-white, female, and LGBTQ people are worried. Some of it is policy-women are panicking and calling their GYNs for IUDs before it's too late. Repubs have been trying to defund/shut down Planned Parenthood for a long time, and an unintended pregnancy has huge implications in a given woman's life. LBGTQ are worried about the potential status of their marriage, trans-folks are worried about things like getting IDs with their desired gender on them, continued ability to be on hormones, and of course the whole bathroom thing. Muslims are worried about being investigated, possibly being made to "register" which Trump specifically mentioned during the campaign. Anyone of Hispanic lineage is worried about other people dismissing their right to be in the country or asking to provide proof of residency/citizenship regardless (this happened in AZ a few years ago with one of their bills too). Many black people are worried about increases in incarceration and militarization by police.
Will all of this come to fruition? Probably not. But it was all stuff that Trump implied or specifically mentioned during the campaign.

Changed my mind. I feel worse about this now than a week or so ago, given the people who are rapidly being installed in high positions in the White House.

Also, this:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

Not quite sure the gyrations required here to show that the "alt-right" (aka the folks Bannon elevated out of the shadows via Breitbart), are not flat out fucking Nazis. Not euphemistically. Nazis. Yelling "Heil Trump" and giving the Nazi salute. This isn't in some basement of some fringe church in Alabama, this is in a federal building in Washington DC. This isn't some super-left-wing fake news site, this is the Atlantic, and this wasn't some exclusive thing that nobody else can corroborate.

[Kris]

I think therefore that the Trump supporters on this thread don't care that there are real reasons that non-white, female, and LGBTQ people are worried. Some of it is policy-women are panicking and calling their GYNs for IUDs before it's too late. Repubs have been trying to defund/shut down Planned Parenthood for a long time, and an unintended pregnancy has huge implications in a given woman's life. LBGTQ are worried about the potential status of their marriage, trans-folks are worried about things like getting IDs with their desired gender on them, continued ability to be on hormones, and of course the whole bathroom thing. Muslims are worried about being investigated, possibly being made to "register" which Trump specifically mentioned during the campaign. Anyone of Hispanic lineage is worried about other people dismissing their right to be in the country or asking to provide proof of residency/citizenship regardless (this happened in AZ a few years ago with one of their bills too). Many black people are worried about increases in incarceration and militarization by police.
Will all of this come to fruition? Probably not. But it was all stuff that Trump implied or specifically mentioned during the campaign.

Changed my mind. I feel worse about this now than a week or so ago, given the people who are rapidly being installed in high positions in the White House.

Also, this:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

Not quite sure the gyrations required here to show that the "alt-right" (aka the folks Bannon elevated out of the shadows via Breitbart), are not flat out fucking Nazis. Not euphemistically. Nazis. Yelling "Heil Trump" and giving the Nazi salute. This isn't in some basement of some fringe church in Alabama, this is in a federal building in Washington DC. This isn't some super-left-wing fake news site, this is the Atlantic, and this wasn't some exclusive thing that nobody else can corroborate.

Exactly. And yet, I see basically nothing about this from conservative friends and family. Not one has said anything denouncing, or even expressing discomfort, with this. All I see are excuses.

[RosieTR]

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

I'm truly sorry if you felt the same kind of anxiety and dread that many liberals (not just a few) are feeling now. I really hope you're right that this is just another conservative administration. I can't say I'm convinced at this point.

[MrMoogle]

Re Kris and Gin:
Here was the original question:

I know you mean this in a positive light. I would like to explain that this feels very different from normal disappointment and upset when the hoped-for candidate loses. I am comparing this to GWB's win in 2000, which was similarly close, with the popular vote for Gore and electoral for Bush. Plus all the drama of the hanging chads and Supreme Court. Also, in 2004 when we were in war (which I had protested) still felt like normal disappointment.

I didn't have trouble sleeping or eating for several days after those elections like I have in the past few days. Then I had a feeling of disappointment, yes. But this feeling of dread and anxiety? No, not like this. Did the Trump supporters here feel like this when Obama won in 2008 and 2012? Or just basically disappointed?

To me, it's asking: did Trump supporters feel dread and anxiety after Obama won?  Which was responded to as yes. 
It's not asking if they feel the exact same as you feel now. 

[MrMoogle]

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

I'm truly sorry if you felt the same kind of anxiety and dread that many liberals (not just a few) are feeling now. I really hope you're right that this is just another conservative administration. I can't say I'm convinced at this point.

I never said I did.  I was disappointed when Obama won.  I'm disappointed with his presidency.  I didn't have anxiety or dread.  I also don't have statistics on how many liberals can't sleep at night like you cannot.  I doubt it's that many, but I could be wrong.  I'm sure there were conservatives who couldn't sleep at night after Obama won.  I have no idea if it's more or less than cannot now.

I'm also disappointed Trump won.  I'm not disappointed he beat Hillary. 

I am truly sorry you feel that kind of anxiety and dread.  I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings.  I'm just having trouble understanding them.  As I had trouble with people who had similar feelings about Obama.  And I'm not saying it's the same, but to me, it's similar.  They both seem overblown to me.  Maybe it's a fault in me for not being able to understand.

[Gin1984]

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

I'm truly sorry if you felt the same kind of anxiety and dread that many liberals (not just a few) are feeling now. I really hope you're right that this is just another conservative administration. I can't say I'm convinced at this point.

I never said I did.  I was disappointed when Obama won.  I'm disappointed with his presidency.  I didn't have anxiety or dread.  I also don't have statistics on how many liberals can't sleep at night like you cannot.  I doubt it's that many, but I could be wrong.  I'm sure there were conservatives who couldn't sleep at night after Obama won.  I have no idea if it's more or less than cannot now.

I'm also disappointed Trump won.  I'm not disappointed he beat Hillary. 

I am truly sorry you feel that kind of anxiety and dread.  I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings.  I'm just having trouble understanding them.  As I had trouble with people who had similar feelings about Obama.  And I'm not saying it's the same, but to me, it's similar.  They both seem overblown to me.  Maybe it's a fault in me for not being able to understand.

I don't know how to be clearer.  People are being assaulted, hate crimes are up ever since he won.  He is a rapist and encourages sexual assault. Those things are DIFFERENT than GOP vs Dem.  I know people who have been hurt, three women (two different cases) were assaulted at my undergrad in the last two weeks, during the day.  Can you not see the difference?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[Meowkins]

I never said I did.  I was disappointed when Obama won.  I'm disappointed with his presidency.  I didn't have anxiety or dread.  I also don't have statistics on how many liberals can't sleep at night like you cannot.  I doubt it's that many, but I could be wrong.  I'm sure there were conservatives who couldn't sleep at night after Obama won.  I have no idea if it's more or less than cannot now.

I'm also disappointed Trump won.  I'm not disappointed he beat Hillary. 

I am truly sorry you feel that kind of anxiety and dread.  I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings.  I'm just having trouble understanding them.  As I had trouble with people who had similar feelings about Obama.  And I'm not saying it's the same, but to me, it's similar.  They both seem overblown to me.  Maybe it's a fault in me for not being able to understand.

Quick note: appreciate your nuance and open-mindedness, as well as your willingness to hear others. I so hope that there's more of that as the days go on, and I think there will  be. Trump is going to disappoint Americans in a way that is not partisan.

There are people he supports, people in his close circle of advisors, that are openly white supremacists. Isn't that concerning? If Obama had been a part of a group that talked about how white people were inferior to POCs, don't you think that white people in majority POC areas would be terrified? Especially after hate crimes started occurring without any condemnation from the president-elect?

To reiterate, this is not a partisan issue. This is not liberals vs. conservatives. After the most  horrifying terror attack on our soil, President Bush made a point of telling Americans that Islam and Muslims were not our enemy. That is what a President does. He serves all Americans. Despite my disagreements with Bush re: his policies, I remember very vividly as a child bursting into tears of gratitude that my President had said those words, especially after my heart was in pieces post 9/11.

There are people close to trump using the Japanese internment as a positive precedent for future policies. The internment of Japanese people is a blight on our history, widely regarded to be ineffective, unjust, unAmerican at its core. I can't imagine that it exists in our discourse as anything else but a shameful story of wrongs we will never revisit.

But such are the times. And so, naturally, those of us who are Muslim begin to wonder -- is this just the beginning of worse? And yes, we look to history, at the Holocaust, which still boggles my mind that any sane person could ever be a part of. But an entire nation was. It's strange to be in a position where the worst case scenario feels like hyperbole, but you've got a leader who's making you doubt whether it's impossible it could happen again.

[Kris]

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

I'm truly sorry if you felt the same kind of anxiety and dread that many liberals (not just a few) are feeling now. I really hope you're right that this is just another conservative administration. I can't say I'm convinced at this point.

I never said I did.  I was disappointed when Obama won.  I'm disappointed with his presidency.  I didn't have anxiety or dread.  I also don't have statistics on how many liberals can't sleep at night like you cannot.  I doubt it's that many, but I could be wrong.  I'm sure there were conservatives who couldn't sleep at night after Obama won.  I have no idea if it's more or less than cannot now.

I'm also disappointed Trump won.  I'm not disappointed he beat Hillary. 

I am truly sorry you feel that kind of anxiety and dread.  I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings.  I'm just having trouble understanding them.  As I had trouble with people who had similar feelings about Obama.  And I'm not saying it's the same, but to me, it's similar.  They both seem overblown to me.  Maybe it's a fault in me for not being able to understand.

I'm going to assume that you have not been following the news very closely. People are feeling dread in response to actual increases in violence and hatred since the election. And in response to various appointments by Trump that suggest that the climate for anyone who is not a white, straight, Christian is likely to only get worse in the future.

http://time.com/4569129/racist-anti-semitic-incidents-donald-trump/

http://fortune.com/2016/11/13/trump-election-racist-incidents/

[SisterX]

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

I'm truly sorry if you felt the same kind of anxiety and dread that many liberals (not just a few) are feeling now. I really hope you're right that this is just another conservative administration. I can't say I'm convinced at this point.

I never said I did.  I was disappointed when Obama won.  I'm disappointed with his presidency.  I didn't have anxiety or dread.  I also don't have statistics on how many liberals can't sleep at night like you cannot.  I doubt it's that many, but I could be wrong.  I'm sure there were conservatives who couldn't sleep at night after Obama won.  I have no idea if it's more or less than cannot now.

I'm also disappointed Trump won.  I'm not disappointed he beat Hillary. 

I am truly sorry you feel that kind of anxiety and dread.  I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings.  I'm just having trouble understanding them.  As I had trouble with people who had similar feelings about Obama.  And I'm not saying it's the same, but to me, it's similar.  They both seem overblown to me.  Maybe it's a fault in me for not being able to understand.

If it seems overblown to you, it's probably because you don't have Muslim friends who are afraid to express their religious beliefs in public.
It might be because you're not a woman, so you're not terrified by the idea of having your contraception ripped away and then being forced to give birth. Or, since you're not a woman, you've never had someone actually grab you by the pussy, as if they have any right to. You might not have been subjected to sexual violence and intimidation, in public places where not one person spoke up to defend you. (If the last few sentences seem personal, it's because they are personal experiences. And that was well before we had the Pussy-Grabber-in-Chief. Edited to add: I don't consider my experiences in this realm to be outside of the norm. This is sort of the baseline experience of what it is to be a woman in this country, and still I'm thankful that I don't live in many other countries where this is worse/more rampant.)
You might not have transgender friends who are worried about their healthcare, who are worried about their status (do they get to have IDs reflecting what they feel is their true gender, or not?), or gay friends who are worried that their marriages will be de-legitimized.
You might have friends like this, or be a woman and share some of these experiences. But maybe not. And maybe that's part of the problem.
If you do have friends who are not like yourself, please talk to them. More of them might be afraid than you ever knew or thought about before, and for many more reasons than those I listed.

Also, it's not just a few liberals who are having trouble sleeping. This is not normal outrage at an election that didn't go our way, this is genuine fear for the future and what this means about some of our fellow countrymen/women.

Regarding PC language: I read a good essay a while ago about why we make kids apologize, or say please and thank you. After all, they don't get it. When a kid says they're sorry, they have no idea why that's supposed to make things better or what the hell contrition is. But we keep making them say this, and talking to them about these things, because eventually the reasons behind it will follow. Eventually, they will understand the power of the apology and they will have greater empathy for people because of it and because of those early lessons. I think that PC language is following the same idea. If we change our national discourse then yeah, some people won't get it. They'll follow the crowd without ever understanding what the big deal is. But it will change some people's hearts and minds, and maybe those who didn't get it initially eventually will. Either way, we've changed the national discourse slightly for the better.

Regarding rioting: many of the riots are peaceful. Now, however, we're getting the anarchist groups out, who don't care who won and, realistically, would be protesting either way. They also tend to be the most violent rioters. I'm sure there are anti-Trump people who've been using this as an excuse to stir up trouble, which is horrible, but don't lump all of the peaceful protesters in with the anarchist rioters.

+Whatever my number is to what Rosie has been saying.

Also, +1 to Meowkins' post above. There are lots of legitimate reasons to be concerned by Trump and the people he's elevating to power, no matter your party affiliations. To brush those off is...disturbing.

[MrMoogle]

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

I'm truly sorry if you felt the same kind of anxiety and dread that many liberals (not just a few) are feeling now. I really hope you're right that this is just another conservative administration. I can't say I'm convinced at this point.

I never said I did.  I was disappointed when Obama won.  I'm disappointed with his presidency.  I didn't have anxiety or dread.  I also don't have statistics on how many liberals can't sleep at night like you cannot.  I doubt it's that many, but I could be wrong.  I'm sure there were conservatives who couldn't sleep at night after Obama won.  I have no idea if it's more or less than cannot now.

I'm also disappointed Trump won.  I'm not disappointed he beat Hillary. 

I am truly sorry you feel that kind of anxiety and dread.  I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings.  I'm just having trouble understanding them.  As I had trouble with people who had similar feelings about Obama.  And I'm not saying it's the same, but to me, it's similar.  They both seem overblown to me.  Maybe it's a fault in me for not being able to understand.

I'm going to assume that you have not been following the news very closely. People are feeling dread in response to actual increases in violence and hatred since the election. And in response to various appointments by Trump that suggest that the climate for anyone who is not a white, straight, Christian is likely to only get worse in the future.

http://time.com/4569129/racist-anti-semitic-incidents-donald-trump/

http://fortune.com/2016/11/13/trump-election-racist-incidents/

Do you have stats on this?  Saying it's up doesn't mean much to me.  How does it compare to after Obama's wins?  If it's up 100%, which is the order the article implies (but not states), that certainly is something to be concerned of.  The question was asked on 11/11.  At the time, the only publicized ones I had heard of, were proven to be inaccurate.  And no, I don't follow the news very closely, but I had seen an article similar to this.  Sadly, hate happens daily in the US.  It fits the MSM narrative that Trump is deplorable.  Assigning blame to Trump because hate exists is biased, and I've seen enough bias from the MSM (on both sides).  Now if it truly is hate because of Trump, show me and I'll be more concerned.  Without stats, I cannot make an informed decision.

I'm not sure I'm brushing it off.  You have every right to be concerned, I'm concerned, but I can't understand letting it affect my mental health.  Not being able to sleep is a serious issue.  Maybe I just don't have the data.  Maybe this really is Hitler 2.0, and conservatives just gave the nation away, but I'm not seeing it.  Personally, I'm more concerned about freedom of the press.  Obama had submitted a bill a while ago to require fact checking or something like that.  Trump could easily turn that into something nefarious to attack everyone who had been saying bad things about him.  Then claim, "I just made Obama's bill passable."

Before the election, I went to a few liberal sites to see what they thought of Trump.  And while none of it was good, reading through more of the transcripts made it seem not nearly as bad as had been stated.  Actually it made me feel better about Trump, if that's all they had against him, mostly snippets taken out of context.

I have not looked into his cabinet.  To me, it's not nearly as important, I have no control over it, and there's too much details to learn, I have other things to spend time on.

[golden1]

If a random stranger walked up to you on the street and said the things that Trump has said, you would likely judge him as a deplorable asshole.  You are rationalizing away his comments because you don't want to believe he is really "that bad".  The country is in the process of doing it for the same reason - we don't want to believe it about ourselves .  Looking in the mirror is just too painful, the thought that we might elect someone that furthers the cause of white supremacy and other groups is not something we as a society are ready to grapple with, so it is easier to look the other way and normalize it or minimize it. 

[SomedayStache]

Also, it's not just a few liberals who are having trouble sleeping. This is not normal outrage at an election that didn't go our way, this is genuine fear for the future and what this means about some of our fellow countrymen/women.

Raising my hand as privileged white woman who is having trouble sleeping and experiencing nightmares due to the election results.

I mean, I wasn't happy when Bush was reelected but I kind of laughed at my college roommate who spent the morning after the election curled into a fetal position on the floor.  I was thinking "come on, it's not that bad".  Now that's me and  this time I'm afraid it really is that bad.  Though I hope I'm wrong.  I hope he's a kick ass president and we all laugh at ourselves in a few years.

[MrMoogle]

If a random stranger walked up to you on the street and said the things that Trump has said, you would likely judge him as a deplorable asshole.  You are rationalizing away his comments because you don't want to believe he is really "that bad".  The country is in the process of doing it for the same reason - we don't want to believe it about ourselves .  Looking in the mirror is just too painful, the thought that we might elect someone that furthers the cause of white supremacy and other groups is not something we as a society are ready to grapple with, so it is easier to look the other way and normalize it or minimize it. 

Trump has said a lot of things.  Sure if you pick out his worst lines, I'd think he's deplorable.  I already think he's an asshole.  I don't have a lot of respect for him, I'll respect the office he's about to hold, which is the same I do for Obama (but for completely different reasons).  I'm not sure that I want to believe he really is not "that bad."  I want to make an unbiased opinion of him, which is very difficult based on the sources available.

[MandalayVA]

Why are either of these last two replies relevant to how people felt after the election?  Some (few?) liberals feel dread now, some (few?) conservatives felt dread then.  That was the question, not are Obama and Trump the same people.

I'm truly sorry if you felt the same kind of anxiety and dread that many liberals (not just a few) are feeling now. I really hope you're right that this is just another conservative administration. I can't say I'm convinced at this point.

I never said I did.  I was disappointed when Obama won.  I'm disappointed with his presidency.  I didn't have anxiety or dread.  I also don't have statistics on how many liberals can't sleep at night like you cannot.  I doubt it's that many, but I could be wrong.  I'm sure there were conservatives who couldn't sleep at night after Obama won.  I have no idea if it's more or less than cannot now.

I'm also disappointed Trump won.  I'm not disappointed he beat Hillary. 

I am truly sorry you feel that kind of anxiety and dread.  I'm not trying to dismiss your feelings.  I'm just having trouble understanding them.  As I had trouble with people who had similar feelings about Obama.  And I'm not saying it's the same, but to me, it's similar.  They both seem overblown to me.  Maybe it's a fault in me for not being able to understand.

I distinctly remember a grown man--and notorious right-winger--in my office sobbing after Obama won in 2008, stalking up and down a corridor, yelling into his cell phone about all the "libtards" that would be taking his guns away.  Such are the joys of living in a blue city in a state that's still pretty much red. 

As I've stated numerous times since this election, I've been familiar with Donald Trump since the early eighties.  He has always prided himself on being a maverick and a rebel.  He will say ANYTHING if it gets him what he wants.  ANYTHING.  That ANYONE is taking any of the shit he spouted during the election seriously is what horrifies me.  It's like the first time a baby curses.  He gets attention for it--maybe not good attention, but attention nonetheless, so he says it again.  Louder.  The more screams and gasps he gets, the happier he is, because now people think it's funny and they laugh. 

There were two HUGE mistakes that the left side made in this election--how pissed off the non-intellectual working class was, and how fucking much they hated Hillary Clinton.  As a result ... hello, President Trump.  In all likelihood, though, it'll be like Obama in 2010, with everyone screaming for Trump's head because he "hasn't done anything."