Author Topic: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?  (Read 11894 times)

Syonyk

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #100 on: January 11, 2018, 05:23:01 PM »
I didn't know there were such a thing as studded bike tires - do they work in 7" drifts?  I've seen fat tire bikes in the snow, but I don't have one (and won't buy one either).  Anyone who bikes to work in subzero temperatures through snow drifts and miles of unplowed roads in business clothes is pure badass.  I'm not a pure badass.

It depends.  You can certainly punch through a 7" drift if they're infrequent, though narrow tires are better for that than the wide ones.  I was dealing mostly with loose fresh snow and then the ice pack that happens after an unplowed road gets driven on for a while in the cold (that thick layer of glaze), and studded tires worked very well on that.  I struggled to get through more than a few inches of crusted snow, though.  I could do it, barely.  And not for that long.

The fat bikes probably aren't ideal unless you're dealing with a lot of powder, at which point, yeah, they might be the best option.  I don't know enough about your roads to have a strong opinion there.

Toss the business clothes in a bag and change at the office. :p  Wear good riding gear.  You'll definitely want good fenders, but adjust them loose in the winter so they don't pack up with snow.
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Syonyk

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #101 on: January 11, 2018, 05:24:23 PM »
But back then... before I was even into MMM, I realized that living in Boondockville Buttfuck meant everything was inefficient, so I sold my house, sold my car, and relocated and got a new job. THAT WAS BEFORE MMM. If you want to start throwing facepunches, lets start with your lifestyle choice that just screams inefficient environmental disaster.

It depends rather heavily on how one lives in the rural area, wouldn't it?  If you're heating with wood from your property and have a good solar array up, and decent gardens, the impact is fairly low.
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Prospector

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #102 on: January 11, 2018, 05:37:27 PM »
But back then... before I was even into MMM, I realized that living in Boondockville Buttfuck meant everything was inefficient, so I sold my house, sold my car, and relocated and got a new job. THAT WAS BEFORE MMM. If you want to start throwing facepunches, lets start with your lifestyle choice that just screams inefficient environmental disaster.

It depends rather heavily on how one lives in the rural area, wouldn't it?  If you're heating with wood from your property and have a good solar array up, and decent gardens, the impact is fairly low.

Not if he's driving to work daily. Our place was a South-facing Viceroy with massive thermal gain, wood heat, and a 1.5 acre lot. Spent so much time/money on the commute that nothing else could make up for it. When you are gassing up 2-3X weekly, your savings anyplace else go straight into the gas tank. We were raising chickens for meat/eggs and had some pretty bad gardens going. No time to weed them when you are constantly cutting lawns and commuting.

Now he hasn't manned up to say how long this un-bikeable commute is, but he has caught himself in a catch-22. Either he's living so far from work that he has an inefficient lifestyle and needs to make wholesale changes, or he's close enough he could be biking/using transit and needs to make wholesale lifestyle changes. Either way, he has no business calling out the forum for being too soft until he makes some choices. Even when my commute was 85 km, I would drive halfway and bike the rest.

If he wants the old facepunch days, we can deliver.
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boarder42

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #103 on: January 11, 2018, 05:39:56 PM »
Well said @Prospector that in general was my point. You put the words together much better than I could.
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WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #104 on: January 11, 2018, 05:53:33 PM »
But back then... before I was even into MMM, I realized that living in Boondockville Buttfuck meant everything was inefficient, so I sold my house, sold my car, and relocated and got a new job. THAT WAS BEFORE MMM. If you want to start throwing facepunches, lets start with your lifestyle choice that just screams inefficient environmental disaster.

It depends rather heavily on how one lives in the rural area, wouldn't it?  If you're heating with wood from your property and have a good solar array up, and decent gardens, the impact is fairly low.

I prefer living in the suburbs to living in an urban area. Groceries are cheaper. Mortgage is cheaper. I have a yard that I can use for stuff. It's quiet all the time. No crime to speak of.

The downside is that I need to own a car, but I only use it to commute to my job, so it'll probably last 25-30 years. I use my bicycle to go places in town or I just walk there. I wish there were more bike paths and sidewalks, but it's fine for my needs.

furrychickens

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #105 on: January 11, 2018, 05:56:02 PM »
People go through phases. I am a full time SAHD now and rarely hop on my bike. Family time is more important to me, especially since I homeschool. For a couple years, though, I was one of the most hardcore bikers on the forum. I biked down to -40, biked in 6Ē+ snowstorms, all of that.

I call bullshit on the frugality=environmentalism angle that a lot of yíall are claiming here. Resisting consumerism when it comes to gadgets? Absolutely that is better for the planet. Thereís a big BUT coming, though, in that absolute frugality with food is incredibly damaging to the environment. I have become deeply immersed in learning about regenerative farming practices and so much of our cheap calorie food system is grossly unsustainable. It might even worse than the environmental damage from cheap plastic crap from China, but both are bad.

I bring this up to illustrate the point that sometimes spending more is the more sustainable option. The super cheap grocery budgets many hardcore MMMers have create an awful lot of damage around through globe, just like consumer sukkas who spend $$$$$

So donít feel holier than thou, you have flaws too. Iím not saying Iím the greatest either. I currently spend money on food and goods Iím not 100% in favor of as well, because Iím trying to balance the higher priorities, including not having my wife work forever at a high stress job.
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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #106 on: January 11, 2018, 09:44:17 PM »
Can't tell if you're trolling or just the garden variety paste-eater...
<70 posts vs. > 6200 posts kinda indicates which side the troll might be on. And the rest of your comment is beyond the pale. It has been reported to the mods as a clear rule #1 violation. When it's corrected, I will remove this post, so there's no record of your poor manners. You're welcome.

So 6200+ posts user can justify encouraging a <70 posts user to likely commit suicide by hypothermia and not be assumed to be either a troll or daft?

Back on topic though, it seems like the forum is softening.
Relevance is that the person with the higher post count clearly knows the forum rules. You sir, do not seem to be as well versed, possibly because you have been here a far shorter time. It's not about anything but name calling and Forum Rule #1.
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boarder42

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #107 on: January 12, 2018, 06:21:21 AM »
many of you are missing the fundamental point i was trying to make

i dont care if you drive a car - i dont care if you eat out every day - but dont make a post thinking youre a badass hardcore mustachian that involves driving a car or eating out or whatever then start another thread about the forum going soft.  I dont care how long you've been here if i made a post like how awesome it is to own a boat and how i do it cheaply, which i've done - b/c i dont claim to be a hardcore mustachian - i wouldnt follow that post up 2 days later with why is this forum so soft.  Compound that with a new kid on the block doing both of these things and it just doesnt really add up and the OP should stick around here and learn some things before calling the forum soft and considering driving a vehicle 120 miles hardcore badassity b/c they saved 10c on gas by not running a heater.
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Dabnasty

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #108 on: January 12, 2018, 07:12:50 AM »
People go through phases. I am a full time SAHD now and rarely hop on my bike. Family time is more important to me, especially since I homeschool. For a couple years, though, I was one of the most hardcore bikers on the forum. I biked down to -40, biked in 6Ē+ snowstorms, all of that.

I call bullshit on the frugality=environmentalism angle that a lot of yíall are claiming here. Resisting consumerism when it comes to gadgets? Absolutely that is better for the planet. Thereís a big BUT coming, though, in that absolute frugality with food is incredibly damaging to the environment. I have become deeply immersed in learning about regenerative farming practices and so much of our cheap calorie food system is grossly unsustainable. It might even worse than the environmental damage from cheap plastic crap from China, but both are bad.

I bring this up to illustrate the point that sometimes spending more is the more sustainable option. The super cheap grocery budgets many hardcore MMMers have create an awful lot of damage around through globe, just like consumer sukkas who spend $$$$$

So donít feel holier than thou, you have flaws too. Iím not saying Iím the greatest either. I currently spend money on food and goods Iím not 100% in favor of as well, because Iím trying to balance the higher priorities, including not having my wife work forever at a high stress job.
It's not just the cheap calories that harm the environment, it's farming practices in general. there is little correlation between the cost of calories and environmental impact. You may even be referring to something other than just organic and I agree improving farming practices is something we should pursue but products grown with regenerative farming are not available to many. Although, depending on what you mean by regenerative farming there are actually lot's of examples in conventional food production that fit that definition.

I would argue regardless of production method the amount of meat we consume has the greatest impact and meat is expensive. Cut out meat, save money, help the environment. And what about fresh produce vs. grains? Oatmeal, grits, rice, dry beans; all high calorie, very cheap, and by far have less impact per calorie than low calorie vegetables that need to be picked, transported and often refrigerated no matter how they were grown.

Most of the savings for low budget grocery shoppers on here come from not buying brand name, not wasting food, making things at home vs. prepared and not buying too much meat. These all generally benefit the environment.


« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 07:15:33 AM by Dabnasty »

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #109 on: January 12, 2018, 07:46:48 AM »
@Dabnasty You're correct that expensive calories aren't inherently better. I wasn't implying that, just that food grown in regenerative systems is typically much more labor intensive, thus it can't be as cheap as the heavily industrialized food a typical cheap diet depends on.

You're incorrect that cutting out meat is a solution. While it's true that low meat/vegetarian/vegan is better than heavy meat diets if that meat comes from the CAFO system, all regenerative farming depends on animals. Properly managed animals have an amazingly healing effect on landscapes, and are the key to sustainable/regenerative farming both ecologically and economically.

If unfamiliar with the work of someone like Joel Salatin, permaculturalists like Ben Falk, or my new favorite Richard Perkins, strongly encourage you to check them out. I used to believe the same about low/no meat diets being more sustainable but it just absolutely isn't the case. Numerous examples are out there showing agricultural systems involving animals building soil at rates approaching 100 times or more what the wild areas in their climate zones do.

Also, some folks have a genetic/biological makeup that makes them need a relatively high amount of animal protein to be healthy and sated. Myself and my family are that way. We went very low meat for several years but as we've added meat back to our diet we feel much, much better. We raise a large amount of it ourselves and purchase most of the rest from producers we trust and know.
Factory farming is evil. Nor can you design a vegetarian (let alone vegan) holistic agricultural system that works. There is a third and better way.

All flesh is grass. All life requires death.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #110 on: January 12, 2018, 08:12:58 AM »
Can you name some of Richard Perkins' books?  He doesn't show up in amazon.ca
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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #111 on: January 12, 2018, 08:20:11 AM »
Can you name some of Richard Perkins' books?  He doesn't show up in amazon.ca

He does have a book, but it's his youtube channel that I enjoy. I'll be picking up his book probably next month, but from what I know of it it's more of a technical book and fairly expensive.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3111rvadtBPUY9JJBqdmzg

His farm is really neat. I discovered him late last year and am currently working through all his videos from 2017, in July right now.
Factory farming is evil. Nor can you design a vegetarian (let alone vegan) holistic agricultural system that works. There is a third and better way.

All flesh is grass. All life requires death.

Dabnasty

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #112 on: January 12, 2018, 09:03:15 AM »
@Dabnasty You're correct that expensive calories aren't inherently better. I wasn't implying that, just that food grown in regenerative systems is typically much more labor intensive, thus it can't be as cheap as the heavily industrialized food a typical cheap diet depends on.

You're incorrect that cutting out meat is a solution. While it's true that low meat/vegetarian/vegan is better than heavy meat diets if that meat comes from the CAFO system, all regenerative farming depends on animals. Properly managed animals have an amazingly healing effect on landscapes, and are the key to sustainable/regenerative farming both ecologically and economically.

If unfamiliar with the work of someone like Joel Salatin, permaculturalists like Ben Falk, or my new favorite Richard Perkins, strongly encourage you to check them out. I used to believe the same about low/no meat diets being more sustainable but it just absolutely isn't the case. Numerous examples are out there showing agricultural systems involving animals building soil at rates approaching 100 times or more what the wild areas in their climate zones do.

Also, some folks have a genetic/biological makeup that makes them need a relatively high amount of animal protein to be healthy and sated. Myself and my family are that way. We went very low meat for several years but as we've added meat back to our diet we feel much, much better. We raise a large amount of it ourselves and purchase most of the rest from producers we trust and know.
I am familiar with Joel Salatin and I've read books on the topic but those books are written by people who are in favor of what they're writing about, they are biased and they tend to over promise on the benefits of what they do. This is true when someone writes a book on almost any topic, their way is the best way. And I'm not saying there is no merit to what they do, there is, but don't take everything you read about these guys as fact.

But that's all really besides the point because most people don't have access to food produced using the methods you're talking about. So no, I am not incorrect that cutting out meat is better for the environment and that holds true both for meat raised on a CAFO and for almost every other meat available to consumers. Even the environmental benefits of Polyface farms are questionable when customers are driving from northern VA or even other states to buy a few chickens.

My main issue with your original comment is that you're criticizing low budget grocery shoppers as being worse for the environment but you're not really comparing low budget to high budget, you're comparing a typical way of purchasing food to an atypical way of purchasing food. The fact that I spend very little on my food has nothing to do with this scenario, in fact my cheap groceries correlate directly with lower environmental impact than if I were buying more expensive foods at the same store. If I'm buying grains and eating them that is without a doubt better for the environment than feeding the grain to an animal and eating the meat. (for the record I do eat meat but I stick to mostly chicken and eggs. Far from great but I get my precious animal proteins with less environmental impact than pork or beef.)


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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #113 on: January 12, 2018, 10:03:45 AM »
many of you are missing the fundamental point i was trying to make

i dont care if you drive a car - i dont care if you eat out every day - but dont make a post thinking youre a badass hardcore mustachian that involves driving a car or eating out or whatever then start another thread about the forum going soft.  I dont care how long you've been here if i made a post like how awesome it is to own a boat and how i do it cheaply, which i've done - b/c i dont claim to be a hardcore mustachian - i wouldnt follow that post up 2 days later with why is this forum so soft.  Compound that with a new kid on the block doing both of these things and it just doesnt really add up and the OP should stick around here and learn some things before calling the forum soft and considering driving a vehicle 120 miles hardcore badassity b/c they saved 10c on gas by not running a heater.

Not trying to be a dick, but I still don't know what your point is.

I never said anything about 120 mile commutes or 10c gas savings.  It seems like you are making me up to be a straw man in your head, and then attacking that straw man.  I can't follow your argument because it doesn't follow a coherent narrative that is grounded in reality.

My original point: when I share examples of people making obvious financially self destructive choices, a chorus of support shows up in this forum.  In addition, with the Vitamix example, people in a forum about frugality and efficient living openly attack others who think an $800 blender is a foolish thing to buy.

As for the money saving thread, I started it for people to share ideas about how to save more money/ optimize spending by using non-traditional and slightly uncomfortable means.

Now that I have explicitly laid out each of the points you didn't grasp, I would encourage you to re-evaluate why you are being so reticent.

boarder42

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #114 on: January 12, 2018, 10:23:25 AM »
You started a thread titled what HARDCORE mustachian thing have you done today to save money.

and posted your "supposed Hardcore thing" - which i dont think anyone here would consider HARDCORE

I drove my car to work in -3F without turning the heater on.  This saved me about 2 mpg.

What HARDCORE MUSTACHIAN thing did you do to save money today?

why is it not hardcore b/c you drove a car - i'm not telling you to bike in -3F conditions i'm telling you that b/c you consider yourself mustachian(this is an assumption) that doesnt make all of your choices hardcore mustachian. 

You then followed that up with a thread insulting the users of the forum - this thread.

when in fact you are one of the soft users who just happens to think all your decisions are badass.

can i spell that out more clearly?

The HARDCORE mustachian thing to do would be to sell the car and live as close as possible to everything you do so you dont even need to bike anywhere and can save the cost and maint of owning a bike.

saving 2mpg with a hybrid is not really much of a cost savings in the grand scheme of anything -  2mpgs out of 40mpgs is 5% savings on the drive if gas costs 2 dollars a gallon and you drove 120 miles roundtrip you saved 30 cents on the trip.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 10:41:42 AM by boarder42 »
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DS

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #115 on: January 12, 2018, 10:48:15 AM »
Mods - feel free to delete this thread as it looks like this topic has already been fleshed out relatively recently.

This!

Just live your life and do your best for yourself and who cares what anyone is doing with their money? Their spending helps you if you are investing. *shrug*

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #116 on: January 12, 2018, 10:51:37 AM »
I think the essential question is what constitutes mustachianism?

To understand the nature that this forum has taken we have to start with that.

Furthermore, what constitutes frugality?

Person 1, has a $50,000 car, lives in a five bedroom house, is known to buy relatively cheap breakfasts at McDonalds, but that is eating out. By Mustachian standards, this is a complete waste, but if we said person 1 is Warren Buffet. Would this constitute frugality?

ManlyFather

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #117 on: January 12, 2018, 11:12:36 AM »
You started a thread titled what HARDCORE mustachian thing have you done today to save money.

and posted your "supposed Hardcore thing" - which i dont think anyone here would consider HARDCORE

I drove my car to work in -3F without turning the heater on.  This saved me about 2 mpg.

What HARDCORE MUSTACHIAN thing did you do to save money today?

why is it not hardcore b/c you drove a car - i'm not telling you to bike in -3F conditions i'm telling you that b/c you consider yourself mustachian(this is an assumption) that doesnt make all of your choices hardcore mustachian. 

You then followed that up with a thread insulting the users of the forum - this thread.

when in fact you are one of the soft users who just happens to think all your decisions are badass.

can i spell that out more clearly?

The HARDCORE mustachian thing to do would be to sell the car and live as close as possible to everything you do so you dont even need to bike anywhere and can save the cost and maint of owning a bike.

saving 2mpg with a hybrid is not really much of a cost savings in the grand scheme of anything -  2mpgs out of 40mpgs is 5% savings on the drive if gas costs 2 dollars a gallon and you drove 120 miles roundtrip you saved 30 cents on the trip.

You still missed the point.  If I continue to try to engage with you, I believe you'll continue to attack me.  I can't help you understand, especially when you keep making things up (not sure what this 120 miles and 40 mpg and 30 cent stuff is coming from - I think you are pretty confused).  Given your confusion and propensity to attack me, I will be disengaging from interacting with you now as I don't think we can have a constructive debate.  You are free to have the last word as I won't be interacting with you (or others displaying troll behavior) in this thread from this point onward.

boarder42

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #118 on: January 12, 2018, 11:15:52 AM »
You started a thread titled what HARDCORE mustachian thing have you done today to save money.

and posted your "supposed Hardcore thing" - which i dont think anyone here would consider HARDCORE

I drove my car to work in -3F without turning the heater on.  This saved me about 2 mpg.

What HARDCORE MUSTACHIAN thing did you do to save money today?

why is it not hardcore b/c you drove a car - i'm not telling you to bike in -3F conditions i'm telling you that b/c you consider yourself mustachian(this is an assumption) that doesnt make all of your choices hardcore mustachian. 

You then followed that up with a thread insulting the users of the forum - this thread.

when in fact you are one of the soft users who just happens to think all your decisions are badass.

can i spell that out more clearly?

The HARDCORE mustachian thing to do would be to sell the car and live as close as possible to everything you do so you dont even need to bike anywhere and can save the cost and maint of owning a bike.

saving 2mpg with a hybrid is not really much of a cost savings in the grand scheme of anything -  2mpgs out of 40mpgs is 5% savings on the drive if gas costs 2 dollars a gallon and you drove 120 miles roundtrip you saved 30 cents on the trip.

You still missed the point.  If I continue to try to engage with you, I believe you'll continue to attack me.  I can't help you understand, especially when you keep making things up (not sure what this 120 miles and 40 mpg and 30 cent stuff is coming from - I think you are pretty confused).  Given your confusion and propensity to attack me, I will be disengaging from interacting with you now as I don't think we can have a constructive debate.  You are free to have the last word as I won't be interacting with you (or others displaying troll behavior) in this thread from this point onward.

very interesting you think i'm a troll b/c you cant open your eyes and see the hillarity in your contradiction between two posts.  could you please start a thread that defines what hardcore mustachianism is so we can follow it

from what i've gathered so far it doesnt include a vitamix but includes a car to get you to work. 

i'm not attacking you i'm attacking your ideas - which is what we do on this forum - you're the one who attacked me earlier in the thread.  Learning these are different things and what makes this forum great will go along way for you.
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Rimu05

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #119 on: January 12, 2018, 11:16:36 AM »
@Dabnasty You're correct that expensive calories aren't inherently better. I wasn't implying that, just that food grown in regenerative systems is typically much more labor intensive, thus it can't be as cheap as the heavily industrialized food a typical cheap diet depends on.

You're incorrect that cutting out meat is a solution. While it's true that low meat/vegetarian/vegan is better than heavy meat diets if that meat comes from the CAFO system, all regenerative farming depends on animals. Properly managed animals have an amazingly healing effect on landscapes, and are the key to sustainable/regenerative farming both ecologically and economically.

If unfamiliar with the work of someone like Joel Salatin, permaculturalists like Ben Falk, or my new favorite Richard Perkins, strongly encourage you to check them out. I used to believe the same about low/no meat diets being more sustainable but it just absolutely isn't the case. Numerous examples are out there showing agricultural systems involving animals building soil at rates approaching 100 times or more what the wild areas in their climate zones do.

Also, some folks have a genetic/biological makeup that makes them need a relatively high amount of animal protein to be healthy and sated. Myself and my family are that way. We went very low meat for several years but as we've added meat back to our diet we feel much, much better. We raise a large amount of it ourselves and purchase most of the rest from producers we trust and know.

Nothing to dispute, but I am one of those people who just cooks based on my country's general diet. On that note, I come from a country where the one of the tribes is the Maasai people. They are a nomadic tribe who mostly consume a lot of animal products. In fact, some tribes eat no vegetables at all. However, they are pretty darn healthy and have a very low disease rate. Of course being nomadic, they do a copious amount of walking. However, I notice this pattern with other nomadic tribes. Even the people who are fatter, are still healthy...

ManlyFather

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #120 on: January 12, 2018, 11:19:18 AM »
Mods - feel free to delete this thread as it looks like this topic has already been fleshed out relatively recently.

This!

Just live your life and do your best for yourself and who cares what anyone is doing with their money? Their spending helps you if you are investing. *shrug*

Yeah, this thread is pretty sideways now thanks to some folks displaying odd behavior and thinking patterns, it looks like it has been thoroughly derailed and the original intent has long been forgotten.  Mods feel free to kick this thread to the curb.

As for the spending = good for my investments: I do smile a little inside when I find out someone bought an iPhone X.  This makes me slightly richer given my significant exposure to AAPL in my large index fund holdings.

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #121 on: January 12, 2018, 11:37:45 AM »
You still missed the point.  If I continue to try to engage with you, I believe you'll continue to attack me.  I can't help you understand, especially when you keep making things up (not sure what this 120 miles and 40 mpg and 30 cent stuff is coming from - I think you are pretty confused).  Given your confusion and propensity to attack me, I will be disengaging from interacting with you now as I don't think we can have a constructive debate.  You are free to have the last word as I won't be interacting with you (or others displaying troll behavior) in this thread from this point onward.

very interesting you think i'm a troll b/c you cant open your eyes and see the hillarity in your contradiction between two posts.  could you please start a thread that defines what hardcore mustachianism is so we can follow it

from what i've gathered so far it doesnt include a vitamix but includes a car to get you to work. 

i'm not attacking you i'm attacking your ideas - which is what we do on this forum - you're the one who attacked me earlier in the thread.  Learning these are different things and what makes this forum great will go along way for you.

That sounds plausible to me? And yes, no name calling.

But overall I don't think it's fair to say someone is disqualified from starting a thread like this just because they commute by car. I don't commute by car but if my current situation dictated that it's the best option I would do it. Even if I had intentions to move closer to work I would be driving in the meantime. For some work locations it may even be truly unsafe or impossible to bike (not the average persons definition of unsafe biking, truly unsafe).

Besides, from the beginning I thought this thread was about the more extreme cases of excess spending being reinforced by other comments. That definitely exists and according to users that have been around longer than I, it has become much more common. You're taking the fact that MFer (that's what I'm calling you from now on if you're cool with it :) started one thread about being hardcore, you disagree with his definition of hardcore, and you use that to disqualify his criticisms of anyone else. That seems like a stretch.



boarder42

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #122 on: January 12, 2018, 12:22:27 PM »
You still missed the point.  If I continue to try to engage with you, I believe you'll continue to attack me.  I can't help you understand, especially when you keep making things up (not sure what this 120 miles and 40 mpg and 30 cent stuff is coming from - I think you are pretty confused).  Given your confusion and propensity to attack me, I will be disengaging from interacting with you now as I don't think we can have a constructive debate.  You are free to have the last word as I won't be interacting with you (or others displaying troll behavior) in this thread from this point onward.

very interesting you think i'm a troll b/c you cant open your eyes and see the hillarity in your contradiction between two posts.  could you please start a thread that defines what hardcore mustachianism is so we can follow it

from what i've gathered so far it doesnt include a vitamix but includes a car to get you to work. 

i'm not attacking you i'm attacking your ideas - which is what we do on this forum - you're the one who attacked me earlier in the thread.  Learning these are different things and what makes this forum great will go along way for you.

That sounds plausible to me? And yes, no name calling.

But overall I don't think it's fair to say someone is disqualified from starting a thread like this just because they commute by car. I don't commute by car but if my current situation dictated that it's the best option I would do it. Even if I had intentions to move closer to work I would be driving in the meantime. For some work locations it may even be truly unsafe or impossible to bike (not the average persons definition of unsafe biking, truly unsafe).

Besides, from the beginning I thought this thread was about the more extreme cases of excess spending being reinforced by other comments. That definitely exists and according to users that have been around longer than I, it has become much more common. You're taking the fact that MFer (that's what I'm calling you from now on if you're cool with it :) started one thread about being hardcore, you disagree with his definition of hardcore, and you use that to disqualify his criticisms of anyone else. That seems like a stretch.

again my issue really isnt with commuting by car and asking if the community has gone soft - its the hyperbole

its equating commuting by car to being HARDCORE and then asking why people are soft on the other hand.

a post of why i'm so awesome (which i think we can all agree isnt really awesome) followed by a post of why do you all suck.
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Dabnasty

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #123 on: January 12, 2018, 12:35:23 PM »
You still missed the point.  If I continue to try to engage with you, I believe you'll continue to attack me.  I can't help you understand, especially when you keep making things up (not sure what this 120 miles and 40 mpg and 30 cent stuff is coming from - I think you are pretty confused).  Given your confusion and propensity to attack me, I will be disengaging from interacting with you now as I don't think we can have a constructive debate.  You are free to have the last word as I won't be interacting with you (or others displaying troll behavior) in this thread from this point onward.

very interesting you think i'm a troll b/c you cant open your eyes and see the hillarity in your contradiction between two posts.  could you please start a thread that defines what hardcore mustachianism is so we can follow it

from what i've gathered so far it doesnt include a vitamix but includes a car to get you to work. 

i'm not attacking you i'm attacking your ideas - which is what we do on this forum - you're the one who attacked me earlier in the thread.  Learning these are different things and what makes this forum great will go along way for you.

That sounds plausible to me? And yes, no name calling.

But overall I don't think it's fair to say someone is disqualified from starting a thread like this just because they commute by car. I don't commute by car but if my current situation dictated that it's the best option I would do it. Even if I had intentions to move closer to work I would be driving in the meantime. For some work locations it may even be truly unsafe or impossible to bike (not the average persons definition of unsafe biking, truly unsafe).

Besides, from the beginning I thought this thread was about the more extreme cases of excess spending being reinforced by other comments. That definitely exists and according to users that have been around longer than I, it has become much more common. You're taking the fact that MFer (that's what I'm calling you from now on if you're cool with it :) started one thread about being hardcore, you disagree with his definition of hardcore, and you use that to disqualify his criticisms of anyone else. That seems like a stretch.

again my issue really isnt with commuting by car and asking if the community has gone soft - its the hyperbole

its equating commuting by car to being HARDCORE and then asking why people are soft on the other hand.

a post of why i'm so awesome (which i think we can all agree isnt really awesome) followed by a post of why do you all suck.

Maybe we're just reading the title differently?

I see it as "Have there always been some users who are soft". Maybe you read it as "All forum members are now soft". Understandable if you read it that way, I'm not a fan of the title but certainly no one thinks everyone on here is soft.

boarder42

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #124 on: January 12, 2018, 12:44:51 PM »
You still missed the point.  If I continue to try to engage with you, I believe you'll continue to attack me.  I can't help you understand, especially when you keep making things up (not sure what this 120 miles and 40 mpg and 30 cent stuff is coming from - I think you are pretty confused).  Given your confusion and propensity to attack me, I will be disengaging from interacting with you now as I don't think we can have a constructive debate.  You are free to have the last word as I won't be interacting with you (or others displaying troll behavior) in this thread from this point onward.

very interesting you think i'm a troll b/c you cant open your eyes and see the hillarity in your contradiction between two posts.  could you please start a thread that defines what hardcore mustachianism is so we can follow it

from what i've gathered so far it doesnt include a vitamix but includes a car to get you to work. 

i'm not attacking you i'm attacking your ideas - which is what we do on this forum - you're the one who attacked me earlier in the thread.  Learning these are different things and what makes this forum great will go along way for you.

That sounds plausible to me? And yes, no name calling.

But overall I don't think it's fair to say someone is disqualified from starting a thread like this just because they commute by car. I don't commute by car but if my current situation dictated that it's the best option I would do it. Even if I had intentions to move closer to work I would be driving in the meantime. For some work locations it may even be truly unsafe or impossible to bike (not the average persons definition of unsafe biking, truly unsafe).

Besides, from the beginning I thought this thread was about the more extreme cases of excess spending being reinforced by other comments. That definitely exists and according to users that have been around longer than I, it has become much more common. You're taking the fact that MFer (that's what I'm calling you from now on if you're cool with it :) started one thread about being hardcore, you disagree with his definition of hardcore, and you use that to disqualify his criticisms of anyone else. That seems like a stretch.

again my issue really isnt with commuting by car and asking if the community has gone soft - its the hyperbole

its equating commuting by car to being HARDCORE and then asking why people are soft on the other hand.

a post of why i'm so awesome (which i think we can all agree isnt really awesome) followed by a post of why do you all suck.

Maybe we're just reading the title differently?

I see it as "Have there always been some users who are soft". Maybe you read it as "All forum members are now soft". Understandable if you read it that way, I'm not a fan of the title but certainly no one thinks everyone on here is soft.

everyone some one - doesnt really matter how many people its aimed at -  its a new guy on the block posting about how badass he is on something thats not really bad ass followed by posting about how soft others are - i think prospector summed it up pretty well above. 
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Syonyk

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #125 on: January 12, 2018, 12:46:48 PM »
Where does "Built a solar powered office on your property and have a 30 second walk from the house to the office" fit in?  I'm not driving, but I'm not biking either...

I mean, to be fair, my solar power setup is because I didn't think trenching through that much basalt was feasible on the timeframe I had...
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boarder42

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #126 on: January 12, 2018, 12:48:11 PM »
Where does "Built a solar powered office on your property and have a 30 second walk from the house to the office" fit in?  I'm not driving, but I'm not biking either...

I mean, to be fair, my solar power setup is because I didn't think trenching through that much basalt was feasible on the timeframe I had...

you should have started this thread. 
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ManlyFather

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #127 on: January 12, 2018, 12:48:23 PM »
You're taking the fact that MFer (that's what I'm calling you from now on if you're cool with it :)

You're cool, you can call me whatever you want :)

Syonyk

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #128 on: January 12, 2018, 01:27:30 PM »
you should have started this thread.

*shrug*  I'd get shouted off the board for doing something like that.  I have my path in life, and it involves things like owning a truck because driving into town to rent a truck to haul stuff and then driving back in to return it is stupid.  And my savings rate this year is quite negative, because I've been investing a lot of time and money into useful property improvements (storage, vehicle shelter, firebreaks, etc).  Another few years of that should leave me mostly self sufficient in terms of energy/food/water on the property, with the associated savings rate, but I'm going about it rather differently than most people here.
My random project blog - ebikes, DIY, fans, and more: http://syonyk.blogspot.com

FrugalToque

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Re: Have MMM forum users always been so soft?
« Reply #129 on: January 12, 2018, 02:12:27 PM »
[Enough of this thread.  I don't have time to police it well enough.]