Author Topic: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?  (Read 32206 times)

Will

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Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« on: November 03, 2012, 11:13:45 PM »
I live in the Pacific NW where it is often rainy and gloomy.  Plus, as Winter approaches, the days get shorter and shorter and shorter (and it is dark when I go to work and dark when I get home, which sucks!).  I was thinking about getting one of those "Happy Lights"  which makes the following claims:  "The ****** emulates natural sunshine with up to 6,000 LUX of white light therapy to help prompt your body’s natural energy enhancers to lift spirits, sharpen concentration and improve energy levels. ****** bathes you in invigorating Natural Spectrum® light to address the effects of reduced exposure to natural sunlight such as seasonal change, winter blues, shift work and jet lag. Relax, focus and revitalize with the ******."  (I've removed the actual brand name since this isn't meant as an advertisement or anything.)  Costco has one which they usually sell for $50, and until next Sunday, it is $10 off.  Do any of you have anecdotal (or otherwise) evidence or thoughts as to whether or not something like this would be worthwhile or if you think it is a scam?

sol

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2012, 11:58:07 PM »
If you're a light skinned person, your body is adapted get enough light in northern climates.  Spend a few minutes outside each day, say while biking to work, and you'll be fine.

If you're a dark skinned person your body is adapted to protect you from too much sunlight, and you may not get enough light in northern climates.  Take a daily multivitamin, and skip the $50 lamp. 

JJ

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2012, 01:34:20 AM »
If you tend to get really sluggish or depressed during long, dark winters they can make a difference (I have a close family member who uses and benefits from one).  I'm sure they don't work for everyone.  Google SAD light therapy if you want more info.  I found http://www.sad.org.uk/ pretty quickly and right there on the front page it has some info on whether light boxes may work for you and how to shop for one.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 09:31:35 PM by JJ »

herisff

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2012, 06:59:40 AM »
For some people SAD can be an issue. I too live in the PNW and totally agree how sucky the winter darkness can be. I use full spectrum lightbulbs instead of a single light source, since I'm often all over the house getting chores done. That and having light-colored walls works for me at keeping depression under control. It would be nice if I could get out into the sun at least once a day, but I work inside all day and don't have the chance to get outside (where it's usually gray and rainy anyway). If you are willing to stay in one place for the time needed for your dose of light, than the lamp could work for you.

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2012, 08:23:29 AM »
As for the suggestion of taking a multi-vitamin, that's not enough for some people.

My doctor told me that most of us Canadians are deficient in vitamin D, and that supplementing is recommended year round for everyone.  She also said that for some, a SAD light is a way better, cheaper, and drug-free way to treat 'the winter blues'.

Will

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2012, 08:53:27 AM »
Going to the referenced page definitely has me rethinking the model that I mentioned.  It says you need at least 10,000 lux, and that Costco one is only 6,000.

SoftwareGoddess

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2012, 08:57:01 AM »
I'm affected by SAD. I've used a SAD light in the winter for years and found it to be very effective. However, I've read in a few places that lights must emit at least 10,000 lux in order to be effective against SAD, so I wouldn't purchase a 6,000 lux light myself. (Also, if the packaging actually says LUX instead of lux, I'd be concerned that the manufacturer doesn't know what he is talking about.)

OTOH, my mother bought a lower-lux full spectrum light which she says is effective for her. So YMMV and/or there may be a placebo effect at work in her case.

caligulala

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2012, 02:03:16 PM »
Will, my mom uses a light to help with her SAD during the Portland winters. I love the grey and found sunshine in the winter to be extremely disconcerting when I moved to the midwest, but I know it really drags some people down. The lights seem to help my mom quite a lot - she turns it on next to her bed right when she wakes up.

sol

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2012, 07:38:32 PM »
This is probably going to rub some folks the wrong way, but I'm in that kind of a mood.

Part of me thinks that SAD, like so many other new-age maladies for which you can buy an easy fix-all remedy, is more marketing scheme than medical science.

Is your aura unbalanced?  This magnetic bracelet will set you right.  Overweight?  Try our magic calorie-free sugar substitute.  Shin splints?  I have some fancy non-shoes that will put you back in touch with your primal running self.

All of these "problems" have known causes, and known solutions, and the answer isn't buying some fancy new product.  For a website that claims to be trying to teach people to break free of their consumerist mindset, the forums sure are full of people endorsing products for whatever ails you.  Here's a thought; instead of buying a prepackaged solution of dubious merit, research the topic with sources that don't make money off it, and decide for yourself.

Or at the very least, if you simply must BUYBUYBUY your way to enlightenment, consider a wide spectrum bulb instead of a whole sun lamp.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 11:13:27 PM by sol »

Erica/NWEdible

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2012, 08:09:08 PM »
Part of me thinks that SAD, like so many other new-age maladies for which you can buy an easy fix-all remedy, is more marketing scheme than medical science.

^^^ Says the guy with the ironic username who probably doesn't want to kill himself every-single-February in Seattle for no apparent reason.

Look I get where you are coming from encouraging people to not fall prey to the Mumbo Jumbo, but there are many cases of high intensity phototherapy being used medically, from babies with bilirubin issues to people with skin conditions to treatment of seasonal depression. This isn't like coffee enemas or shaman-blessed jade sex eggs.

As you know, a Pac NW winter isn't like Maine, or Colorado winter. The light intensity can be basically nil for months at a time. Even if you get outside, you're not really "out in the sun." Some people, like me, love the feeling of the giant grey sky blanket. Others, including relatives of mine, have annual, predictable seasons of depression in winter and have found tremendous relief in therapeutic Vit D dosages and high-intensity light boxes.

Frankly, for many people the alternative to light box therapy is either moving to the South (often impractical) or prescription antidepressants. Both of these options are more expensive than phototherapy and and if there's anything that deserves a skeptical eye and extensive research, it's happiness-in-a-pill.

OP Will, I recommend you go find your friendly local "indoor sun / pot grow op" shop and walk in one dark, gloomy NW day. Spend ten minutes admiring the cacti and the "hydroponic grow set-up" type things. If after this you feel like someone just took a 60 pound backpack off your back and you think you might like to do some push-ups while working on the Sunday Times crossword (ie., invigorated), look at their lightbox type offerings. I'd personally skip the Costco offer until you've done more targeted research.

totoro

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2012, 09:59:32 PM »
As an INTJ skeptic I can relate to the naysayers but, having had a range of experiences, I am quite convinced we don't have it all figured out.  Take it from a former agnostic who has experienced some illogical spiritual events :)

People are different and I'm firmly in the camp of experimentation with the goal of greater happiness.  I say try the light therapy and vitamin therapy and see if there is a difference. 

It is not all marketing.  Life is too short to bash everything as a consumer marketing trick. 

 

Taylor

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2012, 08:56:55 AM »
I'm a psychotherapist and work with people with Depression all the time (Seasonally related or otherwise). I haven't seen Light Therapy be very helpful for a majority of people. Research consistently shows the best things to do for any kind of depression are the Big Three behavioral habits: Eating a healthy diet, Sleeping enough, and Exercise.

Before spending big bucks on a high-powered light, I would revamp the Big Three and see if that's helpful.

sibamor

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2012, 09:47:06 AM »
"Vitamin D is all you need"

strider3700

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2012, 04:00:17 PM »
SAD lights are expensive.  A heat lamp coupled with a few big bright full spectrum fluorescent bulbs was way cheaper and gives my wife the feel of mexico while she sews at night.  It's really helped  for her.

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2012, 06:46:32 AM »
Part of me thinks that SAD, like so many other new-age maladies for which you can buy an easy fix-all remedy, is more marketing scheme than medical science.


... but SAD isn't a crazy, evidence free, new age thing. It's in the DSM-IV. I've been told by three different professionals, repeatedly, that I absolutely cannot under any circumstances stop taking my antidepressants until spring, even though I was being treated for situational depression and the stress has mostly lifted. Why? SAD. 

Now, SAD is part of depression, and the usual depressive treatments may work better-- not everyone responds to light therapy, as I understand it. So I'd suggest to the OP to do as  Erica/NWEdible suggests and check out the hydroponics store and see how they respond to that light. Good plan. I'd also suggest OP goes outtside and stays active in the winter, as lack of exercise can be a depressive trigger in a lot of people. If it's really bad and not just a "man, winter sucks. I'm bummed." sort of feeling, see professional. Seriously.

grantmeaname

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2012, 08:16:01 AM »
... but SAD isn't a crazy, evidence free, new age thing. It's in the DSM-IV.
I don't think psychiatry is as ossified and mature a field as you think it is. Remember, homosexuality was in the DSM just a little while ago.

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2012, 03:31:50 PM »
... but SAD isn't a crazy, evidence free, new age thing. It's in the DSM-IV.
I don't think psychiatry is as ossified and mature a field as you think it is. Remember, homosexuality was in the DSM just a little while ago.
And they needed plenty of evidence for homosexuality to get it in there. :P
That was a value judgment-- just a little while ago, lots of people honestly thought homosexuality was abhorrent. So they put it in as an aberration. I agree that it was the wrong judgment, but I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison.

grantmeaname

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2012, 08:50:29 PM »
I agree that the specifics of the two differ. I'm just advocating a little more skepticism and a little less dogmatic acceptance of the results of capital-s Science as capital-f Fact.

GuitarStv

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2012, 10:22:26 AM »
... but SAD isn't a crazy, evidence free, new age thing. It's in the DSM-IV.
I don't think psychiatry is as ossified and mature a field as you think it is. Remember, homosexuality was in the DSM just a little while ago.
And they needed plenty of evidence for homosexuality to get it in there. :P
That was a value judgment-- just a little while ago, lots of people honestly thought homosexuality was abhorrent. So they put it in as an aberration. I agree that it was the wrong judgment, but I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison.

The problem with the DSM-IV is one common to psychology as a whole . . . it's not entirely science based.  Entries change based on societal and political whim at the time, rather than reproducible evidence.  Part of the problem is that much of psych has been trying to study the mind without measurable data.

How do you quantify someone's feeling of depression?  How do you compare the feelings of one person to another?  How do you prove a treatment is working over a placebo if it's not possible to run double blind tests in a clinical study?  Modern EM and biochemical sciences have started to advance to the point where we can start to identify measurable brain chemical differences for some things now, which is a good first step.  I would not be surprised if much of the current psychological treatment/theories gets thrown out the window over the next 50 - 70 years as we start applying real science to this field of patchy guesswork.

totoro

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2012, 10:36:53 AM »
I'm not sure there will be a factual reliable external measure of internal emotional states.  Although we are similar to one another, we do not have the same perception of experiences, although brain chemistry may be altered in a similar manner.

Depression is measured through subjective reporting based on standardized tests/questions and scaled responses.  I'm not sure what is wrong with this measure?  How could an external scientific measure be more accurate than a self-report? 

If you are lying about your level of depression perhaps you have some other issues going on - maybe it is okay to respond to the self reports as valid despite a lack of scientific data. 

I don't view self-reporting measures of testing as generally unreliable.

zoltani

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2012, 10:54:20 AM »
I'm a psychotherapist and work with people with Depression all the time (Seasonally related or otherwise). I haven't seen Light Therapy be very helpful for a majority of people. Research consistently shows the best things to do for any kind of depression are the Big Three behavioral habits: Eating a healthy diet, Sleeping enough, and Exercise.

Before spending big bucks on a high-powered light, I would revamp the Big Three and see if that's helpful.

I think that is a very good point, as I think that a lot of people simply stop exercising as much in the PNW winters.  Here at my office the bike room is filled to capacity during the summer, but really drops off in the winter, even though it isn't even really cold or worse for riding.  The key is to still get out there and expose yourself to fresh air, the elements, and get the heart and lungs (and brain) pumping.

GuitarStv

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2012, 11:53:28 AM »
I'm not sure there will be a factual reliable external measure of internal emotional states.  Although we are similar to one another, we do not have the same perception of experiences, although brain chemistry may be altered in a similar manner.

Anything that exists can be measured.  Emotional states have already been shown to be linked to chemical, physical, and electrical changes in the brain.  We already treat emotional ailments chemically


Depression is measured through subjective reporting based on standardized tests/questions and scaled responses.  I'm not sure what is wrong with this measure?  How could an external scientific measure be more accurate than a self-report? 

People suck at self reporting (we tend to lie for many reasons - maybe we want to feel special, maybe we want access to some drugs, maybe we've just talked ourselves into believing there's a problem).  Standardized tests/questions and scaled responses that are currently used for many things also suck.  Here's a study that shows about 5 minutes of google lets most people fake the standard test for ADHD for example . . . http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mouse-man/201007/how-easy-is-it-fake-adhd

An external measure is essential to determine what the problem is, and after treatment to determine if the problem has been solved.


If you are lying about your level of depression perhaps you have some other issues going on - maybe it is okay to respond to the self reports as valid despite a lack of scientific data. 

Sure, lying about your level of depression might be an indication of other issues.  That's why the objective, measurable evidence that is lacking from the field is so important.  If people are basing tests and studies on invalid data . . . well, that's bad science, and potentially dangerous for patients.


I don't view self-reporting measures of testing as generally unreliable.

Self reporting introduces bias, and drastically reduces reproducibility.  It eliminates the possibility of double blind tests.  This damages our ability to actually help people.  When you're working on guesswork and fuzzy feelings sometimes crazy errors go on for years before their caught.  Like when we realized that Prozac doesn't work any better than taking no drugs (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/feb/26/mentalhealth.medicalresearch) for most depressed people.

totoro

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2012, 12:45:04 PM »
Yes, it is an interesting debate but the possibility of being told that my subjective experiences are invalid because they don't match a chemical marker or pass an electrical stimulus test seems pretty crazy-making to me - and potentially inhumane.   Seems pretty patriarchal and prone to "expert" bias and error to discount personal experience/reality/perception as a test for subjective psychological state data.

I did ask the question to a physician once who specialized in DSM testing about bias and distortion on the tests ie. how can you screen out a liar or someone motivated for a result?  Her response was that liars are not consistent and there are criteria built into the comprehensive testing that identify inconsistent results.

I don't have the answer and this is not my field.  I would pay attention to people's self-reports and treat them accordingly unless their reports were inconsistent and/or seemed to be motivated by something other than seeking assistance. 

 


kisserofsinners

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2012, 12:54:03 PM »
Without getting too into the "science", I have a good friend who is using a Philips light box that cost him about $20 and makes him very happy.

For $20 i would never deny him the relief he appears to get from the thing.

vwDavid

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Re: Happy Light: Worth it or a scam?
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2012, 01:10:13 PM »
My MD has suggested he cannot say anything about the costco ones, but the genuine SAD lights are verified to deliver the appropriate UV radiation whereas the cheapies are not.

I have a costco happy light. Its ok. It is not a miracle.