Author Topic: Happiness Index  (Read 20436 times)

hybrid

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2013, 07:21:28 PM »
Touchy this evening Grant?  Bring it down a notch or two please.

grantmeaname

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2013, 07:38:45 PM »
Not touchy, just sick of repeating myself for no greater purpose than to be ignored and insulted.

hybrid

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2013, 07:39:48 PM »
So some politicians hurt your feelings, and now your opinions are too goddamned important for you to consider what I have to say? I have lots of respect for that!

Your ridiculous emotional attachment to being mad at politicians is apparently preventing you from reading the other ninety percent of what I have to say. I never even said that I think deficit spending is appropriate, just that 1) it's not categorically inappropriate, and 2) you desire lots of other things that require deficit spending, as does the rest of the electorate, and neither you nor anyone else has acknowledged that and proposed how exactly these competing demands should be balanced. Quit being grumpy for two minutes and read!

Actually Grant I want a lot more cuts than spending in the grand scheme.  When I say reform Social Security, that most certainly does not mean more SS, much less actually.  Defense?  Cuts there.  Reformed health care?  We spend 15% of GDP on health care, Canada spends 10% and produces remarkably similar results.  Our system is just grossly inefficient, burdening employers with providing insurance and burying providers in paperwork.  There simply must be a better way.  Education can and should be streamlined as well.

Are there areas (infrastructure) that I want more spending on?  Assuredly.  But on the whole I would like to see our government become much leaner that it currently is.  And I am willing to compromise to get there.

And lastly, you are the one being emotional.  I point out that we come from different perspectives because of our age.  That's my opinion, certainly not an unreasonable one, you aren't required to like it.  You are, however, required to take a respectful tone in the forums.  So spare us all the "your opinions are too goddamned important" and "ridiculous emotional attachment".  You are in fact the one blowing a gasket.  I simply disagree with you.

grantmeaname

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2013, 07:54:29 PM »
Reformed health care?  We spend 15% of GDP on health care, Canada spends 10% and produces remarkably similar results.  Our system is just grossly inefficient, burdening employers with providing insurance and burying providers in paperwork.

You haven't demonstrated either that the results are comparable (I'd argue they're really not), or that the costs are really comparable and that we should be able to get the same results for the same costs. That aside: exactly which third of healthcare would you eliminate? Are you arguing that a third of healthcare spending in this country is pure waste? I want "more efficient healthcare", and everyone else does too, but what does that even mean?

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Education can and should be streamlined as well.
That's just as meaningless as your last statement. Streamlined how? Pay the teachers less? Increase class sizes? Physically attach teachers to their buildings so urban teachers stop quitting two years after they get their bachelors? Put magical "be more attentive parents" drugs in the water supply? Eliminate music education because it doesn't turn children into engineers?

Everyone wants "better government", "more efficiency", "less pork", and "less waste". But if we can't talk clearly about what those things are and how we measure them, much less how we change them, how's that any different than everyone wanting no taxes, tons of services, a unicorn, a pony, and no deficit?

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I point out that we come from different perspectives because of our age.
You pointed out that my opinion counted for less because I'm younger than you, not that we have differing opinions about the topic at hand. Those aren't equivalent.

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You are, however, required to take a respectful tone in the forums.

I'm bad at following rule #1, you're bad at following rule #2. Sorry.

hybrid

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2013, 08:21:15 PM »
Done.  Have a good evening.  I leave you with one thought.  I've been 21.  You've never been 47.  You cannot have an appreciation for what it is like to become jaded by politicians and decades of their lies, you aren't old enough to be that jaded yet.  That is the age difference and perspective I was pointing out, its not personal.

Jamesqf

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2013, 09:59:03 PM »
Not touchy, just sick of repeating myself for no greater purpose than to be ignored and insulted.

How to say this politely?  Perhaps when someone keeps repeating their ideas while ignoring other people's seemingly valid criticisms of those ideas, they should not be all that surprised to find themselves ignored, or even insulted.  See for instance the thread on free energy as a sort of cautionary example.

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There are a sort of men, whose visages
 Do cream and mantle like a standing pond;
 And do a willful stillness entertain,
 With purpose to be dress'd in an opinion
 Of wisdom, gravity, profound conceit;
 As who should say, "I am Sir Oracle,
 And when I ope my lips, let no dog bark!"
Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice"

grantmeaname

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2013, 06:10:55 AM »
There have been a large handful of threads on this site that have made me substantially change my opinion on the topic of discussion (about weak-form EMH, SS, unions, government spending, charity). I'm not immune to 'seemingly valid criticisms', but I think the seemingly valid criticisms of my arguments in this thread add up to maybe a half of a post total, and the remainder is foot-stamping and my-opinion-is-better-than-yours rants. Or in other words: the free energy thread contained valid criticisms of FYC2's ideas, which (s)he chose to ignore.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2013, 08:09:54 AM »
Actually it's the same issue. There is an incentive to radicalize and destabilize. War is profit. Once you see the game for what it really is, it becomes rather clear.

Sorry, but no.   Those who have radicalized & destabilized (in the past century or so of US politics) have had no other issue than to push their particular religion* or political philosophy.  Now this may lead to their profit, or put them in positions of power, but there has been no general profit.  To claim to think otherwise is just to ignore history, and do a good job of burying one's head in the sand.

Are really just pointing your finger solely at Islam?

There are radicals in all walks of life. Zionism, Islam, NeoConserviatism, etc. Even sub-tribes within those group fight with each other. You can't just cherry pick one and say it's all their fault. And their agenda is not just to pound their pound their religious chest, it is power and control.

And to say there has been no general profit motive is naive at best. Governments, intelligence agencies, military industrial complex, corporate tycoons and international banks ALL stir that shit up for financial gain. And we pay the price. I suggest that is people in the US might not be so happy. I guess there are always those people to just want to blame them A-rabs though.

Jamesqf

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2013, 11:57:06 AM »
Are really just pointing your finger solely at Islam?

There are radicals in all walks of life. Zionism, Islam, NeoConserviatism, etc. Even sub-tribes within those group fight with each other. You can't just cherry pick one and say it's all their fault. And their agenda is not just to pound their pound their religious chest, it is power and control.

Certainly there are radicals in all religions.  However, in Islam subjugating the infidel is not in any sense radical, it is a religious duty set forth in the Koran.  Likewise for killing people who reject your version of Islam.


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And to say there has been no general profit motive is naive at best. Governments, intelligence agencies, military industrial complex, corporate tycoons and international banks ALL stir that shit up for financial gain. And we pay the price. I suggest that is people in the US might not be so happy.

I suppose there is an inverse profit motive, in that allowing some external group to conquer your country, expropriate your goods, and send you and your family off to re-education or extermination camps could be said to be unprofitable.

But as to your claim that shit is stirred up for financial gain, how about some actual evidence?  I'd have to say, just from general knowledge of the history of say the last century or so, that vast amounts of money have in fact been spent precisely to try to keep the shit unstirred.  After all, it's hard to maintain profitable trading relationships in the middle of a war.

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I guess there are always those people to just want to blame them A-rabs though.

Your ignorance is showing.  Not all Muslims are "A-rabs" (indeed, I'd guess only a minority are, though I can't be bothered to search for exact figures), just as not all Arabs are Muslims.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2013, 01:09:02 PM »
Are really just pointing your finger solely at Islam?

There are radicals in all walks of life. Zionism, Islam, NeoConserviatism, etc. Even sub-tribes within those group fight with each other. You can't just cherry pick one and say it's all their fault. And their agenda is not just to pound their pound their religious chest, it is power and control.

Certainly there are radicals in all religions.  However, in Islam subjugating the infidel is not in any sense radical, it is a religious duty set forth in the Koran.  Likewise for killing people who reject your version of Islam.


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And to say there has been no general profit motive is naive at best. Governments, intelligence agencies, military industrial complex, corporate tycoons and international banks ALL stir that shit up for financial gain. And we pay the price. I suggest that is people in the US might not be so happy.

I suppose there is an inverse profit motive, in that allowing some external group to conquer your country, expropriate your goods, and send you and your family off to re-education or extermination camps could be said to be unprofitable.

But as to your claim that shit is stirred up for financial gain, how about some actual evidence?  I'd have to say, just from general knowledge of the history of say the last century or so, that vast amounts of money have in fact been spent precisely to try to keep the shit unstirred.  After all, it's hard to maintain profitable trading relationships in the middle of a war.

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I guess there are always those people to just want to blame them A-rabs though.

Your ignorance is showing.  Not all Muslims are "A-rabs" (indeed, I'd guess only a minority are, though I can't be bothered to search for exact figures), just as not all Arabs are Muslims.

Ok, so you didn't get my mockery of ignorance on the A-rabs thing. lol.

I'm not a scholar of Islam but I know there are many tribes and you can't paint them with such a broad brush no more than you can do so to Christianity by calling out Westboro Baptist Church. I think almost every religion has a version of the Golden Rule...outside of that is distorted to hell and back. War radicalizes all religion. Its used against humanity instead of for it.

As for evidence of a profit motive in starting wars... are you denying that no one benefits from it? The US alone is 10 trillion MORE in debt since 9/11. You can't make that claim that there is no profit motive in starting wars. The first thing the (US funded) "rebels" did in Libya was establish a central bank and an oil company. Hellooooo???

Cui bono?

Jamesqf

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2013, 02:15:59 PM »
Ok, so you didn't get my mockery of ignorance on the A-rabs thing. lol.

Oh, I did.  I was just mocking your mockery, since you were displaying the same degree of ignorance (though in a different direction) as those you were trying to mock.

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I'm not a scholar of Islam but I know there are many tribes and you can't paint them with such a broad brush no more than you can do so to Christianity by calling out Westboro Baptist Church.

Well, then I would suggest that you actually learn something about Islam before discussing it, then, or trying to whitewash it with your big brush.  Start by reading the Koran, then some of the Hadith (which are first-person accounts of what Mohammed actually said and did).  Might surprise you.

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I think almost every religion has a version of the Golden Rule...outside of that is distorted to hell and back. War radicalizes all religion. Its used against humanity instead of for it.

But again, you seem to be arguing from ignorance.  Not only your admitted ignorance of Islamic scriptures, but an ignorance of history.  Islam has from its very beginning been a religion which made war on anyone who opposed it, or simply wanted to be left in peace.  The first concerted act, after Mohammed and his followers had established themselves in Medina, was to ambush and rob a merchant caravan going to Mecca.  The second was to return to Medina and massacre the Jews there.

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As for evidence of a profit motive in starting wars... are you denying that no one benefits from it?

Of course not.  I'm arguing that those who stand to lose vastly outnumber those who stand to benefit.

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The US alone is 10 trillion MORE in debt since 9/11. You can't make that claim that there is no profit motive in starting wars.

Now let's see here.  You're arguing that because the US wound up $10 trillion more in debt, that it had a profit motive in starting a war?  I fail to see the logic here :-)

It's also at odds with the facts.  The US did nothing to start war.  In fact, it ignored attacks repeated over decades, while trying (at considerable expense) to make peace.

Albert

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2013, 02:46:01 PM »
Islam might indeed qualify as the most aggressive major religion of all time, but let's not pretend that Christianity was spread mostly by soft persuasion. It most certainly was not. But whatever the history we'll have to co-habit the planet with them for centuries to come, hopefully mostly peacefully.


Jamesqf

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2013, 09:08:14 PM »
Islam might indeed qualify as the most aggressive major religion of all time, but let's not pretend that Christianity was spread mostly by soft persuasion.

I suppose that would be a point, if I were a Christian.  You do need to recall (history again) that we - that is, Western civiization - have spent the last several centuries trying to chain down the Christian dragon, with at least some success.

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But whatever the history we'll have to co-habit the planet with them for centuries to come, hopefully mostly peacefully.

Why?  I wonder exactly how you expect to peacefully co-exist with a religion (or a political philosophy &c), when a core belief of that religion is that they are to attack non-Muslims, and fight them until they submit to Islam?

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Happiness Index
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2013, 12:14:23 PM »
Well, then I would suggest that you actually learn something about Islam before discussing it, then, or trying to whitewash it with your big brush.  Start by reading the Koran, then some of the Hadith (which are first-person accounts of what Mohammed actually said and did).  Might surprise you.

Sorry I'm not going to spend my time reading the Koran. I have no interest really in studying much of any religion or studying the culture of tribalism. There is so much hypocrisy in all of it that you can't profile an entire group of people based on their religion, which you seem quite good at doing. Perhaps because you put so much stock in this 'history' as it is some sort of undisputed truth. His-story is written by the winners.

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The US did nothing to start war.
Nah, they hate for our freedom!

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I fail to see the logic here :-)
Denying there is a profit motive in starting wars is indeed a failure of logic. I can't argue with that, so I'll defer to Major General Smedley Butler, the most decorated Marine of his time.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 12:16:06 PM by Mr.Macinstache »