Author Topic: Grammar nazi  (Read 92711 times)

MandalayVA

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #500 on: October 12, 2015, 03:41:50 PM »
Hangry is when you're so hungry you're angry and need a snickers :)

I don't watch TV that much so I must have missed that commercial.  :D

It was not born on TV, keep your smugness in check; "hangry" has been around quite awhile, it's a combination of hungry and angry, minus the Snickers bit.

Hope you didn't hurt yourself jumping to conclusions like that.  :D
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #501 on: October 12, 2015, 03:49:26 PM »
Hangry is when you're so hungry you're angry and need a snickers :)

I don't watch TV that much so I must have missed that commercial.  :D

It was not born on TV, keep your smugness in check; "hangry" has been around quite awhile, it's a combination of hungry and angry, minus the Snickers bit.

Hope you didn't hurt yourself jumping to conclusions like that.  :D

;D

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #502 on: November 10, 2015, 02:44:15 PM »

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #503 on: November 10, 2015, 04:18:09 PM »
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #504 on: January 02, 2016, 01:26:57 PM »
"So" as the first word in reply to a question has made the Lake Superior State University 2016 Banned Words List.

Quote
'So' has already been banned once by LSSU back in 1999, in the context of a verb modifier ('I am so done with this'), but organizers felt it merited a second appearance due to its change in use.

According to Bob Forrest, from Tempe, Arizona: 'Currently, it is being overused as the first word in the answer to ANY question.

'For instance, "How did you learn to play the piano?" Answer: "So my dad was in a classical music club..."'

Thomas Weiss, from Mt. Pleasant, Michigan, added: 'Frequently used to begin a sentence, particularly in response to a question, this tiresome and grammatically incorrect replacement for "Like," or "Um," is even more irksome. It hurts my ears, every single time I hear it!'

Finally, taking a somewhat sarcastic tone, David Simpson, of Laurel, Maryland, said: 'So it's getting really annoying. So can we please put a stop to this?'
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RetiredAt63

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #505 on: January 03, 2016, 01:42:18 PM »
NOOOOoooooo!  I use "so," at the beginning of sentences.  "Therefore" is so much longer.  So unhappy.  Oh well........

Yes the "so unhappy" was on purpose  ;-)

"So" as the first word in reply to a question has made the Lake Superior State University 2016 Banned Words List.

Quote
'So' has already been banned once by LSSU back in 1999, in the context of a verb modifier ('I am so done with this'), but organizers felt it merited a second appearance due to its change in use.

According to Bob Forrest, from Tempe, Arizona: 'Currently, it is being overused as the first word in the answer to ANY question.

'For instance, "How did you learn to play the piano?" Answer: "So my dad was in a classical music club..."'

Thomas Weiss, from Mt. Pleasant, Michigan, added: 'Frequently used to begin a sentence, particularly in response to a question, this tiresome and grammatically incorrect replacement for "Like," or "Um," is even more irksome. It hurts my ears, every single time I hear it!'

Finally, taking a somewhat sarcastic tone, David Simpson, of Laurel, Maryland, said: 'So it's getting really annoying. So can we please put a stop to this?'

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #506 on: January 04, 2016, 09:20:28 PM »
I imagine this might have been mentioned further up, but I have seen this so many times in the past few days, and it's driving me crazy:

Why is it so hard for people to make a plural possessive?!  I just don't understand how adults don't know that if you're talking about the house that belongs to your parents, it's your parents' house, not your parent's house!!!

Saved me today. It felt somehow natural to type it 's, but then I recalled this thread. Fixed s' and I felt just a little wiser for once.

TheBuddha

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #507 on: January 05, 2016, 01:23:38 AM »
NOOOOoooooo!  I use "so," at the beginning of sentences.  "Therefore" is so much longer.  So unhappy.  Oh well........

Yes the "so unhappy" was on purpose  ;-)

Well there are plenty of words left :)

I can't believe they didn't also ban "right?" which often finishes sentences begun with "so".

Were it up to me, I would have also banned "awesome" and derivatives (I nearly quit an audiobook today over repeated use of "awesome" and "awesomeness").
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Kris

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #508 on: January 05, 2016, 08:48:30 AM »
I imagine this might have been mentioned further up, but I have seen this so many times in the past few days, and it's driving me crazy:

Why is it so hard for people to make a plural possessive?!  I just don't understand how adults don't know that if you're talking about the house that belongs to your parents, it's your parents' house, not your parent's house!!!

Saved me today. It felt somehow natural to type it 's, but then I recalled this thread. Fixed s' and I felt just a little wiser for once.

Woo hoo! Made my day! Thanks for letting me know!
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RetiredAt63

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #509 on: January 06, 2016, 06:43:05 AM »
Feel free to ban "right" at the end of a sentence, I hate it too.  I am Canadian, so no pain, there is always "eh?"  ;-)

So I'm OK, eh?

NOOOOoooooo!  I use "so," at the beginning of sentences.  "Therefore" is so much longer.  So unhappy.  Oh well........

Yes the "so unhappy" was on purpose  ;-)

Well there are plenty of words left :)

I can't believe they didn't also ban "right?" which often finishes sentences begun with "so".

Were it up to me, I would have also banned "awesome" and derivatives (I nearly quit an audiobook today over repeated use of "awesome" and "awesomeness").

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #510 on: January 06, 2016, 11:50:15 AM »
NOOOOoooooo!  I use "so," at the beginning of sentences.  "Therefore" is so much longer.

I think the issue is not when using "so" in place of "therefore".  That makes sense.  What doesn't make sense (at least to me) is when someone begins a conversation with the word "so".  In fact, I have seen many threads here in which the very first post starts with "so".  The person might write, "So, I am 35 years old and want to retire by 40."  Why begin that sentence with "so"?
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #511 on: January 06, 2016, 06:30:21 PM »
"ROTH IRA".

Roth is not an acronym. It is named after the late Senator Roth who sponsored the legislation that established the Roth IRA.

Now granted, some people are capitalizing Roth for emphasis, but there are still quite a few people who capitalize it regardless.

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #512 on: January 06, 2016, 07:48:59 PM »
What doesn't make sense (at least to me) is when someone begins a conversation with the word "so".  In fact, I have seen many threads here in which the very first post starts with "so".  The person might write, "So, I am 35 years old and want to retire by 40."  Why begin that sentence with "so"?

I had hardly noticed that this was happening till somebody brought it to my attention. I have to admit I kinda like it. It seems to be used mostly by fairly well-educated younger folks, and it really does fill a gap in the system. You can use it to mean "introducing a topic here" or "let me fill you in on some background" or "here's the deal"... it's short, it's a natural outgrowth from an earlier use of "so"... what's not to like?
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TheBuddha

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #513 on: January 07, 2016, 10:05:41 PM »
it really does fill a gap in the system.

No :)

It's meaningless throat-clearing that makes the reply to a question sound unresponsive. If it "means" anything, it's "I'm going to say what I'd intended to say, regardless of your question".

ETA: I see you were referring to using "so, " in writing specifically. It's even worse in that case because it's even more obvious that it's useless; it can be removed without changing the meaning of the sentence at all. It adds nothing. And the writer can't even use a verbal tic as an excuse.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 10:14:53 PM by TheBuddha »
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Malaysia41

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #514 on: January 07, 2016, 10:55:51 PM »
it really does fill a gap in the system.

No :)

It's meaningless throat-clearing that makes the reply to a question sound unresponsive. If it "means" anything, it's "I'm going to say what I'd intended to say, regardless of your question".

ETA: I see you were referring to using "so, " in writing specifically. It's even worse in that case because it's even more obvious that it's useless; it can be removed without changing the meaning of the sentence at all. It adds nothing. And the writer can't even use a verbal tic as an excuse.

When a comment begins with "So..." or its evil cousin, "Ooh Story Time!" I immediately skip to the next comment. 

Such constructs are red flag.  They're used by callow bores to dress up interminable burbling. Pass.

Writing those sentences felt awfully cynical. However, they honestly convey how I feel when I see posts starting with "So..."

TBH, I'm sure I've started a few posts with "so,"  but in my defense, I was young, foolish, and desperate for upvotes. (Yes, I too can be a bore).
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #515 on: January 08, 2016, 12:06:26 AM »
You mean a boor?

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #516 on: January 08, 2016, 12:49:57 AM »
You mean a boor?

YES!  I even looked it up in an online dictionary because  'bore' felt wrong. I found a definition here, so I went with it.  I'll admit, it didn't feel right.

Evolving language?
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NinetyFour

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #517 on: January 08, 2016, 05:27:29 AM »
Lake Superior State University's 41st Annual List of Banished Words

So, if the wordsmiths at Lake Superior State University get their way, this is the last time a story lead like this will ever make it into print or broadcast.

Answering a question by beginning with the word "so" is just one of a dozen forms of wordplay that made it onto LSSU's 41st annual List of Words Banished from the Queen's English for Mis-use, Over-use and General Uselessness.


SO

So the word that received the most nominations this year was already banished, but today it is being used differently than it was in 1999, when nominators were saying, “I am SO down with this list!”  Nominations came from across the country.

    “Currently, it is being overused as the first word in the answer to ANY question. For instance, "How did you learn to play the piano?" Answer: "So my dad was in a classical music club..." – Bob Forrest, Tempe Ariz.

    “Tune in to any news channel and you’ll hear it. The word serves no purpose in the sentence and to me is like fingernails on a chalkboard. So, I submit the extra, meaningless, and overused word ‘so.’” – Scott Shackleton, Sault Ste. Marie, Mich.

    “Politicians, especially, are using this word when asked a question and not answering said question. It is used by all parties in Canada's Federal election. – Karen Newton, Sault Ste. Marie, Ont.

    “Frequently used to begin a sentence, particularly in response to a question, this tiresome and grammatically incorrect replacement for "Like," or "Um," is even more irksome…It hurts my ears, every single time I hear it! – Thomas H. Weiss, Mt. Pleasant, Mich.

    “So it's getting really annoying. So can we please put a stop to this?” – David G. Simpson, Laurel, Md.

    “It has become widespread to the point of an epidemic,” said a sickened John from Philadelphia, Penn.
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #518 on: January 08, 2016, 10:37:42 AM »

When a comment begins with "So..." or its evil cousin, "Ooh Story Time!" I immediately skip to the next comment. 

Such constructs are red flag.  They're used by callow bores to dress up interminable burbling. Pass.

Writing those sentences felt awfully cynical. However, they honestly convey how I feel when I see posts starting with "So..."


I think I am "guilty" of starting a sentence like this on occasion. Huh. Little did I know the irritation I may have been unleashing...

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #519 on: January 08, 2016, 10:39:20 AM »
Do you know what annoys me more than any grammatical error in recent times? People's tendency to use "then" instead of "than".

"...earning less then their parents".

"...working more then 40 hours a week".

It's fucking THAN, people!!! Then refers to time.

*sigh*

I'd love to know what annoys others. Just so I can put my little peeve into perspective.

The one I've seen lately that bothers me most is using defiantly or definately instead of definitely

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #520 on: January 08, 2016, 12:43:34 PM »

When a comment begins with "So..." or its evil cousin, "Ooh Story Time!" I immediately skip to the next comment. 

Such constructs are red flag.  They're used by callow bores to dress up interminable burbling. Pass.

Writing those sentences felt awfully cynical. However, they honestly convey how I feel when I see posts starting with "So..."


I think I am "guilty" of starting a sentence like this on occasion. Huh. Little did I know the irritation I may have been unleashing...

So yeah, the only time that bugs me...shit!!
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #521 on: January 08, 2016, 01:19:25 PM »
"ROTH IRA".

Roth is not an acronym. It is named after the late Senator Roth who sponsored the legislation that established the Roth IRA.

Now granted, some people are capitalizing Roth for emphasis, but there are still quite a few people who capitalize it regardless.

Here's one I hate also. It's when people say irregardless, which is not a word. It's just "regardless"... But if irregardless was a word it would be a double negative which would mean the opposite of what they are trying to say, so just stop it already.

 Furthermore there is the statement "I could care less". When I hear that I inevitably reply oh, so you DO care a bit? Obviously if you could care less then you must care at some level because it is possible for you to care less than you do right now. Perhaps you meant to say "I couldn't care less"?

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #522 on: January 08, 2016, 01:37:20 PM »
"ROTH IRA".

Roth is not an acronym. It is named after the late Senator Roth who sponsored the legislation that established the Roth IRA.

Now granted, some people are capitalizing Roth for emphasis, but there are still quite a few people who capitalize it regardless.

Here's one I hate also. It's when people say irregardless, which is not a word. It's just "regardless"... But if irregardless was a word it would be a double negative which would mean the opposite of what they are trying to say, so just stop it already.

 Furthermore there is the statement "I could care less". When I hear that I inevitably reply oh, so you DO care a bit? Obviously if you could care less then you must care at some level because it is possible for you to care less than you do right now. Perhaps you meant to say "I couldn't care less"?

Uh were you quoting me because it reminded you of that, or because you thought I used "irregardless"? Because I didn't.

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #523 on: January 08, 2016, 03:02:08 PM »
So, irregardless, you defiantly reminded me.

johnny847

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #524 on: January 08, 2016, 03:13:24 PM »
So, irregardless, you defiantly reminded me.

Excellent! Haha

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #525 on: January 08, 2016, 03:58:56 PM »
heighth - it's height folks, yes I know all the other expressions of size have a "th", width, depth, length, but this one, well, it's just height - with a hard t at the end.

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #526 on: January 08, 2016, 04:04:21 PM »
I have a darling husband who has many unique colloquialisms that frankly make my ears bleed.  But just recently I've learned to keep my irritation to myself as no amount of correction or encouragement changes things.  I am a slow learner.  We've been married 12 years now. 

Here are a few examples -

wheelbarrel
bob wire fence
joyce and jouyces  (for joist and joists)

That's just the beginning folks.

One of my all time favorites comes from my brother in law.  He mispronounces misdemeanor as Mr. Meanor, at least that's what it sounds like to me. 

Gotta love 'em.

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #527 on: January 08, 2016, 04:12:49 PM »
It annoys me when people say, "I resemble that remark." When someone says this, they are almost never attempting to be humorous and they really mean to say, "I resent that remark."

I say "I resemble that remark" and I mean it.  It's so much easier to stand in the ugly light of day.  I'd rather make fun of myself than make fun of you :)


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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #528 on: January 08, 2016, 04:25:42 PM »
Jooles I would go absolutely nuts.

I used to work with a guy who said "ole" for oil and "shar" for shower and "hep" for help. Just kill me now.

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #529 on: January 09, 2016, 06:49:05 PM »
It's meaningless throat-clearing that makes the reply to a question sound unresponsive. If it "means" anything, it's "I'm going to say what I'd intended to say, regardless of your question".


But throat clearing isn't meaningless! These are all just efficient ways of organizing discourse, prepping the listener/reader for where you're going, and all that. Unless you're one of those wacky people who thinks that the point of conversation is to transmit information efficiently from one person to another. :-)
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #530 on: January 10, 2016, 12:03:29 AM »
I work with a team of developers from India, for whatever reason they spell out didn't as dint ALL THE TIME in email.... GRRR!

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #531 on: January 10, 2016, 05:18:56 AM »
I work with a team of developers from India, for whatever reason they spell out didn't as dint ALL THE TIME in email.... GRRR!
Could this be text speak?  I'm not savvy enough to the ways of the young folk, but I do see an uptick in the substitution of prolly for probably. And I think that comes from the language of text. God help us.
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #532 on: January 10, 2016, 05:51:39 AM »
It's prolly not that.

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #533 on: January 10, 2016, 12:34:48 PM »
It's prolly not that.

Ain't it? Well I a'reckon not then.

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #534 on: January 11, 2016, 01:51:05 PM »
I have a darling husband who has many unique colloquialisms that frankly make my ears bleed.  But just recently I've learned to keep my irritation to myself as no amount of correction or encouragement changes things.  I am a slow learner.  We've been married 12 years now. 

Here are a few examples -

wheelbarrel
bob wire fence
joyce and jouyces  (for joist and joists)

That's just the beginning folks.

One of my all time favorites comes from my brother in law.  He mispronounces misdemeanor as Mr. Meanor, at least that's what it sounds like to me. 

Gotta love 'em.

My darling husband is generally good with pronunciation (although it was really funny when he said the word "adolescent" with the stress on the second syllable rather than the first and third! I still kid him about that). But he has some interesting word choices. The worst is when he starts calling people "ignorant" when the people are actually just "rude" or "mean." For example, a man purposely cuts in line, so my husband gets really angry and starts saying the guy is "really ignorant."

I always think of the Princess Bride and want to say to him, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means!"
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #535 on: January 11, 2016, 02:07:31 PM »
That's a relatively common usage that I've definitely heard dozens of times. Urban dictionary makes references to it in a few definitions and a google search of "ignorant as rude" turns up quite a few related discussions too. So while you may not like it, it isn't something your husband just made up or something. (Fwiw, I don't mind this usage at all.)

mlejw6

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #536 on: January 11, 2016, 02:20:46 PM »
That's a relatively common usage that I've definitely heard dozens of times. Urban dictionary makes references to it in a few definitions and a google search of "ignorant as rude" turns up quite a few related discussions too. So while you may not like it, it isn't something your husband just made up or something. (Fwiw, I don't mind this usage at all.)

Hmm, guess I'll chalk this up in my "learn something everyday" column.
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #537 on: January 11, 2016, 04:28:15 PM »
Ignorant of proper behaviour?  That would make sense.

That's a relatively common usage that I've definitely heard dozens of times. Urban dictionary makes references to it in a few definitions and a google search of "ignorant as rude" turns up quite a few related discussions too. So while you may not like it, it isn't something your husband just made up or something. (Fwiw, I don't mind this usage at all.)

Hmm, guess I'll chalk this up in my "learn something everyday" column.

Primm

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #538 on: January 12, 2016, 04:58:56 AM »
Someone at work today put a notice on our electronic noticeboard. They were selling some furniture.

Including a Chester Draws.

*sigh*

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #539 on: January 12, 2016, 06:33:29 AM »
I'm usually on here defending new or non-standard uses ('cause most of them make sociolinguistic sense or have a long history and are "wrong" only in the sense that they differ from what we're used to), but today I'm here to bitch and moan: Yesterday I heard a guy in the airport lounge tell someone on the phone, "I don't have much time... just give me the details." No. Don't do that. Think before you speak.

I actually used to hear that one a lot more, but I thought it had died out due to ridicule or forced sterilization of its users or something.
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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #540 on: January 12, 2016, 10:13:38 AM »
Someone at work today put a notice on our electronic noticeboard. They were selling some furniture.

Including a Chester Draws.

*sigh*

So a book then? Of Chester drawing? Haha

BlueHouse

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #541 on: January 12, 2016, 07:15:52 PM »
Someone at work today put a notice on our electronic noticeboard. They were selling some furniture.

Including a Chester Draws.

*sigh*
I've always wanted one of those! 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

Malaysia41

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #542 on: January 13, 2016, 04:51:30 AM »
I have a darling husband who has many unique colloquialisms that frankly make my ears bleed.  But just recently I've learned to keep my irritation to myself as no amount of correction or encouragement changes things.  I am a slow learner.  We've been married 12 years now. 

Here are a few examples -

wheelbarrel
bob wire fence
joyce and jouyces  (for joist and joists)

That's just the beginning folks.

One of my all time favorites comes from my brother in law.  He mispronounces misdemeanor as Mr. Meanor, at least that's what it sounds like to me. 

Gotta love 'em.

My darling husband is generally good with pronunciation (although it was really funny when he said the word "adolescent" with the stress on the second syllable rather than the first and third! I still kid him about that). But he has some interesting word choices. The worst is when he starts calling people "ignorant" when the people are actually just "rude" or "mean." For example, a man purposely cuts in line, so my husband gets really angry and starts saying the guy is "really ignorant."

I always think of the Princess Bride and want to say to him, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means!"

My husband, bless his heart,  pronounces the word 'which' like this: IIR(pronunciation syntax)C: /wutsh/

Drives me friggin' monkey bananas every time. And I keep it to myself, because it's petty.  Also, his entire family does not seem to understand the concept that 'her' is a direct object and not a subject F'n'A. FFS. But I keep that shit to myself... besides sharing it with all y'all.
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RetiredAt63

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #543 on: January 14, 2016, 08:51:15 AM »
Let's be kind and assume that the person he was talking to tends to ramble and/or vent.  In that case, "Just give me the details" would mean "Don't tell me all the circumstances and extras, just the important part."

I'm usually on here defending new or non-standard uses ('cause most of them make sociolinguistic sense or have a long history and are "wrong" only in the sense that they differ from what we're used to), but today I'm here to bitch and moan: Yesterday I heard a guy in the airport lounge tell someone on the phone, "I don't have much time... just give me the details." No. Don't do that. Think before you speak.

I actually used to hear that one a lot more, but I thought it had died out due to ridicule or forced sterilization of its users or something.

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #544 on: January 16, 2016, 06:30:24 PM »
I'd like to continue in the tradition of this ostensibly grammar-related thread by posting a purely prescriptive complaint about the use of language, even though my complaint actually has nothing whatsoever to do with grammar, a quality it shares with most of the complaints posted in this thread. My non-grammar-related complaint concerns the use of the word "mortgage".

All across this forum, I see posts where people use the term "mortgage" to mean a loan obtained to purchase a house or to refinance another such loan. That is not the technical meaning of "mortgage". Rather, "[a] mortgage is an interest in real property that secures a creditor's right to repayment". Johnson v. Home State Bank, 501 US 78, 82 (1991). The exact nature of the interest varies by jurisdiction, but one thing is consistent: a mortgage is not a debt; it is "merely security for a debt". Bank of NY v. Silverberg, 86 AD 3d 274, 280 (NY App Div 2011) (quoting another case).

In my posts on the forum, I usually use the phrase "mortgage loan" to refer to the debt secured by a mortgage, but that is not a term of art; variants would also be acceptable. The reason I complain here about using "mortgage" itself to mean "mortgage loan" is that the mortgage is an analytically distinct construct from the debt. Using the same term for each of them is confusing.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 08:08:05 PM by Cathy »
This post contains only general information on the issues raised by this topic. This post does not provide help tailored to your specific situation. There are many facts that could be relevant to your specific situation and I am not in possession of those facts. If you need help tailored to your specific situation, you should retain an appropriate professional and not rely on this post.

MDM

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #545 on: January 16, 2016, 06:39:04 PM »
My non-grammar-related complaint concerns the use of the word "mortgage".

I'd be happy if people used "mortgage [loan] payment" to mean only the Principal and Interest portion that ends when the mortgage [loan] is paid, rather than include any escrowed tax, insurance, HOA, etc. that continues forever.  Don't know whether that makes me more or less easily satisfied....

Cathy

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #546 on: January 16, 2016, 07:28:30 PM »
I'd be happy if people used "mortgage [loan] payment" to mean only the Principal and Interest portion that ends when the mortgage [loan] is paid, rather than include any escrowed tax, insurance, HOA, etc. that continues forever. ...

I think the term "mortgage payment" could be construed broadly as "the sum of all payments secured by a mortgage". A property owner frequently will grant a mortgage to a bank not only as security for a loan, but also as security for the payment of property taxes and insurance. E.g., In re Rorie, 98 BR 215, 217 n 1 (Bankr Ct ED PA 1989) ("The mortgage agreement called for the mortgagor to escrow monthly with the mortgagee payments for real estate taxes and insurance").

By contrast, as a matter of ordinary English, the term "mortgage loan payment" should probably include only the amounts related to the loan (i.e. interest and principal payment). However, in the context of a specific document, the terms may be given other meanings. For example, the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac Security Instruments generally define the term "loan" to include "all sums due under this [document]", which is broader than the ordinary meaning of "loan". If one wants to refer exclusively to the interest and principal payment, the only unambiguous option might be to write "the interest and principal payment".
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 07:31:53 PM by Cathy »
This post contains only general information on the issues raised by this topic. This post does not provide help tailored to your specific situation. There are many facts that could be relevant to your specific situation and I am not in possession of those facts. If you need help tailored to your specific situation, you should retain an appropriate professional and not rely on this post.

MDM

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #547 on: January 16, 2016, 08:50:04 PM »
I think the term "mortgage payment" could be construed....

Yes, it can indeed be construed in many ways, leading to the problem of deciphering which way is meant.

In http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-write-a-'case-study'-topic/ there is this suggestion: "For mortgage payments, separate the P&I (which stop when the mortgage is paid) from the T&I (and anything else) which continue as long as you own the property."

Unfortunately, said suggestion is often overlooked....

Zx

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #548 on: January 16, 2016, 11:10:15 PM »
I'd like to continue in the tradition of this ostensibly grammar-related thread by posting a purely prescriptive complaint about the use of language, even though my complaint actually has nothing whatsoever to do with grammar, a quality it shares with most of the complaints posted in this thread. My non-grammar-related complaint concerns the use of the word "mortgage".

All across this forum, I see posts where people use the term "mortgage" to mean a loan obtained to purchase a house or to refinance another such loan. That is not the technical meaning of "mortgage". Rather, "[a] mortgage is an interest in real property that secures a creditor's right to repayment". Johnson v. Home State Bank, 501 US 78, 82 (1991). The exact nature of the interest varies by jurisdiction, but one thing is consistent: a mortgage is not a debt; it is "merely security for a debt". Bank of NY v. Silverberg, 86 AD 3d 274, 280 (NY App Div 2011) (quoting another case).

In my posts on the forum, I usually use the phrase "mortgage loan" to refer to the debt secured by a mortgage, but that is not a term of art; variants would also be acceptable. The reason I complain here about using "mortgage" itself to mean "mortgage loan" is that the mortgage is an analytically distinct construct from the debt. Using the same term for each of them is confusing.

This post completely and utterly overwhelmed me. As an intellectual I am finished. I will fight no more forever.

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Re: Grammar nazi
« Reply #549 on: January 17, 2016, 08:04:34 AM »
Using the same term for each of them is confusing.
Really? When someone says "I'm working really hard to pay off my mortgage early" you can't intuit that they're referring to the loan and not the bank's security interest?