Graham Crackers - closer to a Cookie or a Cracker?

[deborah]

Crackers are a type of biscuit.

Still doesn't solve it.

"Do graham crackers, the biscuit, go under the sub category of cracker, or a different sub category of biscuit?"

Unless you are saying crackers==biscuit (they're interchangeable).  If there is a difference in the terms, the question is which term does it fall under.

In Australia, there is a biscuit aisle in the supermarket. It includes crackers (but not cookies) as a subcategory. Biscotti are biscuits in the biscuit aisle, as are many other things here.

Animal crackers are sold in the cracker section of the biscuit aisle, but they are NOT sweet (that sounds revolting!).

Graham crackers appear to be a form of digestive biscuit (they appear to be most similar to Marie biscuits, which are round with holes in them). Digestive biscuits were invented by some doctors in Scotland who wanted a biscuit that eased the digestion. In the US Graham had similar ideas (he had probably eaten digestive biscuits from Scotland and wanted to make some himself). There are a variety of similar biscuits readily available in Australia - Nice, Shreaded Wheatmeal, Milk Coffee and Arrowroot. All of these are used in cheesecake recipes (along with Gingernut Snaps which make a wonderful crust once you have managed to crumb them - they are rather hard) for crusts.

However, these are all somewhat bland sweet biscuits (so they are NOT crackers, which, by Australian definition are SAVORY), and they mainly have holes in them. They don't come in flavours like cinnamon and the other ridiculous flavours people have mentioned that Graham crackers come in these days (I think Graham would have apoplexy if he knew how his invention had been debauched).

There are some recipes for deserts made with crackers. And one of our favourite biscuits is a lemon cream between two cracker style biscuits. Of course, the Tim Tam is one of the Australian biscuits that EVERYONE seems to find somewhat special.

It is a pity that the vote has no categories that I could use.

[happy]

Crackers are a type of biscuit.

Still doesn't solve it.

"Do graham crackers, the biscuit, go under the sub category of cracker, or a different sub category of biscuit?"

Unless you are saying crackers==biscuit (they're interchangeable).  If there is a difference in the terms, the question is which term does it fall under.

Edit: oops posted without answering.

I would say both!
Crackers are usually a subset of biscuits, and usually refer to a savoury sort of biscuit. However there are water biscuits, which are plain crackers, so in this example its used interchangeably.

[Alternatepriorities]

I'd like to add that cheesecake is not a cake, it's a pie because it has a crust

Brownies have a crust on them when baked.  Are they a pie?

Bread has a crust.

I reject your idea that a crust is what defines a pie, and that all foods with a crust are pies. :)

Good point, I have a new theory, cake is not allowed to have a crust, cheesecake has a crust and therefore it cannot be a cake, so it must be a pie

Baking a birthday "cheese pie" doesn't sound right... I propose we rename the layer of crumbs, butter, and sugar that prevents the cheesecake batter from sticking to the pan. Many cake recipes suggest coating the pan with butter and flour to avoid the cake sticking...

Recipe for cheesecake with a graham cracker cookie crumb base to facilitate removal from pan and portion transportation:

Removal facilitation layer:
1 1/2 cups graham cracker crumbs
1/4 cup white sugar
1/4 cup butter, melted

Cheesecake:
5 (8 ounce) packages cream cheese, softened
5 eggs
2 egg yolks
1 1/4 cups white sugar
1/8 cup all-purpose flour
1/4 cup heavy whipping cream
1 Tablespoon vanilla

Directions

Preheat oven to 200 degrees F.

Removal facilitation layer:
Mix the graham cracker crumbs, 1/4 cup of the white sugar, and the melted butter together. Press mixture into the bottom of a 10 inch springform pan.

Filling:
In a large bowl, combine cream cheese, eggs and egg yolks; mix until smooth. Add the remaining 1 1/4 cups white sugar, the flour, the heavy cream and the vanilla. Blend until smooth. Pour batter into prepared pan.


Bake at 200 degrees F for about 3.5 hours until filling is set. Crack the oven door and let the cheesecake cool slowly, then refrigerate overnight for best results.

Blueberry Topping (Optional):
3 cups AK blueberries
1/2 cup water
1/4 cup sugar
1-1/2 tablespoons cornstarch dissolved into 3 tablespoons water
1 teaspoon vanilla

Place 1/2 of blueberries in a small pan with water, sugar and vanilla. Heat at medium-high until mixture comes to a low boil.
Add dissolved cornstarch to saucepan and bring mixture to a rolling boil. Turn heat down and simmer on low heat for 2-3 minutes, or until sauce reaches desired consistency. Add water as required to reduced viscosity. Remove from heat. Stir in remaining blueberries.

[Alternatepriorities]

I'd like to add that cheesecake is not a cake, it's a pie because it has a crust

Brownies have a crust on them when baked.  Are they a pie?

Bread has a crust.

I reject your idea that a crust is what defines a pie, and that all foods with a crust are pies. :)

Brownies are cookies -- BAR COOKIES.

Jeesh, Peeple!   This is just the basics...  Brownie receipes (and blondies) are even listed in the COOKIE section of the Better Homes and Gardens cookbook (the one with the red and white check cover).

BH&G and the US Military agree... see specification MIL-C-44072C

[dragoncar]

Removal facilitation layer:
1 1/2 cups graham cracker crumbs
1/4 cup white sugar
1/4 cup butter, melted

Oho!  So the supposed "cookie crust" isn't just graham crackers, but requires the addition of sugar and butter.  This nullifies the argument that graham cracker is a cookie because the crust is occasionally called a cookie crust.  What's next, flour is a cookie because it's sometimes called a cookie when you add sugar and butter and bake it?

[LeRainDrop]

Removal facilitation layer:
1 1/2 cups graham cracker crumbs
1/4 cup white sugar
1/4 cup butter, melted

Oho!  So the supposed "cookie crust" isn't just graham crackers, but requires the addition of sugar and butter.  This nullifies the argument that graham cracker is a cookie because the crust is occasionally called a cookie crust.  What's next, flour is a cookie because it's sometimes called a cookie when you add sugar and butter and bake it?

Boom, lawyered!!!

[nereo]

Oh dear...

Last week I made some southern-style buttermilk biscuits to go with our meal.  This prompted the questions about what they were called.  My Canadian friend referred to them as "scones", because a biscuit (to her) is a cookie, and what I'd call a scone (think sweet, with dried fruit in it) she insisted was a "tea-cake" and a graham cracker was actually a kind of shortbread. 

Cookies - Biscuits - Scones - Shortbread - Crackers - Tea-cakes ...if we can't agree on what to call something how will we ever get along??

[Glenstache]

Oh dear...

Last week I made some southern-style buttermilk biscuits to go with our meal.  This prompted the questions about what they were called.  My Canadian friend referred to them as "scones", because a biscuit (to her) is a cookie, and what I'd call a scone (think sweet, with dried fruit in it) she insisted was a "tea-cake" and a graham cracker was actually a kind of shortbread. 

Cookies - Biscuits - Scones - Shortbread - Crackers - Tea-cakes ...if we can't agree on what to call something how will we ever get along??

probably by sharing our delicious graham crackers and biscuits.

[deborah]

Oh dear...

Last week I made some southern-style buttermilk biscuits to go with our meal.  This prompted the questions about what they were called.  My Canadian friend referred to them as "scones", because a biscuit (to her) is a cookie, and what I'd call a scone (think sweet, with dried fruit in it) she insisted was a "tea-cake" and a graham cracker was actually a kind of shortbread. 

Cookies - Biscuits - Scones - Shortbread - Crackers - Tea-cakes ...if we can't agree on what to call something how will we ever get along??

That is correct in Australia too, and probably all the English speaking world EXCEPT for the US.

[nereo]

Oh dear...

Last week I made some southern-style buttermilk biscuits to go with our meal.  This prompted the questions about what they were called.  My Canadian friend referred to them as "scones", because a biscuit (to her) is a cookie, and what I'd call a scone (think sweet, with dried fruit in it) she insisted was a "tea-cake" and a graham cracker was actually a kind of shortbread. 

Cookies - Biscuits - Scones - Shortbread - Crackers - Tea-cakes ...if we can't agree on what to call something how will we ever get along??

That is correct in Australia too, and probably all the English speaking world EXCEPT for the US.

Hmm.., to which I have my retort: you do realize  the majority of native English speakers are from the US - why should the total number of countries be more important than the total number of speakers?  :-P

[Metric Mouse]

Oh dear...

Last week I made some southern-style buttermilk biscuits to go with our meal.  This prompted the questions about what they were called.  My Canadian friend referred to them as "scones", because a biscuit (to her) is a cookie, and what I'd call a scone (think sweet, with dried fruit in it) she insisted was a "tea-cake" and a graham cracker was actually a kind of shortbread. 

Cookies - Biscuits - Scones - Shortbread - Crackers - Tea-cakes ...if we can't agree on what to call something how will we ever get along??

That is correct in Australia too, and probably all the English speaking world EXCEPT for the US.

Hmm.., to which I have my retort: you do realize  the majority of native English speakers are from the US - why should the total number of countries be more important than the total number of speakers?  :-P

Right? And if the U.S. Military agrees, who can really argue?

BH&G and the US Military agree... see specification MIL-C-44072C

[MonkeyJenga]

Where's the polling option for raw meat, found in the freezer aisle?

[deborah]

Oh dear...

Last week I made some southern-style buttermilk biscuits to go with our meal.  This prompted the questions about what they were called.  My Canadian friend referred to them as "scones", because a biscuit (to her) is a cookie, and what I'd call a scone (think sweet, with dried fruit in it) she insisted was a "tea-cake" and a graham cracker was actually a kind of shortbread. 

Cookies - Biscuits - Scones - Shortbread - Crackers - Tea-cakes ...if we can't agree on what to call something how will we ever get along??

That is correct in Australia too, and probably all the English speaking world EXCEPT for the US.

Hmm.., to which I have my retort: you do realize  the majority of native English speakers are from the US - why should the total number of countries be more important than the total number of speakers?  :-P

I didn't say that was the majority of native English speakers. However, it is interesting just how many English speakers there are in the world, and given that the Pakistani and Indian populations speak British English, it probably would be the majority of English speakers who use the same definitions used in Canada and Australia for these items of food.

[nereo]

Oh dear...

Last week I made some southern-style buttermilk biscuits to go with our meal.  This prompted the questions about what they were called.  My Canadian friend referred to them as "scones", because a biscuit (to her) is a cookie, and what I'd call a scone (think sweet, with dried fruit in it) she insisted was a "tea-cake" and a graham cracker was actually a kind of shortbread. 

Cookies - Biscuits - Scones - Shortbread - Crackers - Tea-cakes ...if we can't agree on what to call something how will we ever get along??

That is correct in Australia too, and probably all the English speaking world EXCEPT for the US.

Hmm.., to which I have my retort: you do realize  the majority of native English speakers are from the US - why should the total number of countries be more important than the total number of speakers?  :-P

I didn't say that was the majority of native English speakers. However, it is interesting just how many English speakers there are in the world, and given that the Pakistani and Indian populations speak British English, it probably would be the majority of English speakers who use the same definitions used in Canada and Australia for these items of food.

It that's what's so fascinating, and so odd... we all share a remarkably similar history linguistically, a bunch of outcasts, misfits, explorers from GB forced to mingle with natives and other country's outcasts and misfits.  But our language has taken bizarre groupings.  Sure, the US says cokie while much of the rest of English speaking countries say biscuit, but the brits say chips when others ( not just united statsians) say fries.  There seems to be no easy division, but rather counter by country for all sorts of words. 

As for population, depending on how you define "English speaker" (whether it's someone's dominant, preferred , or simply one of their fluent languages) there anywhere between 400 and 700 million speakers.  About 250MM are in the us.

[deborah]

We say chips. However, recently people seem to be making a distinction between very thin chips and the fatter ones. The thin ones now are often termed "french fries" or "fries". However, the things that come out of a packet are chips - even though they are thinner.

I have often thought the differences in language are because of American Independence. It really occurred before dictionaries were around, and English was more diverse and fluid. Remember that Shakespeare was contemporary with the first English colonies in America, and he spelt his name umpty-ump different ways. American Spanish and Portuguese are also somewhat different to the European version of the same languages, for similar reasons.

On the other hand, the remainder of the British Empire didn't split up until well after English had been standardised via dictionaries and universal education, so it tends to be US vs the rest of the English speaking world.

[Metric Mouse]

We say chips. However, recently people seem to be making a distinction between very thin chips and the fatter ones. The thin ones now are often termed "french fries" or "fries". However, the things that come out of a packet are chips - even though they are thinner.

I have often thought the differences in language are because of American Independence. It really occurred before dictionaries were around, and English was more diverse and fluid. Remember that Shakespeare was contemporary with the first English colonies in America, and he spelt his name umpty-ump different ways. American Spanish and Portuguese are also somewhat different to the European version of the same languages, for similar reasons.

On the other hand, the remainder of the British Empire didn't split up until well after English had been standardised via dictionaries and universal education, so it tends to be US vs the rest of the English speaking world.

Great points.  It's always interesting to be reminded of things that were contemporous to each other, but that are never thought of 'together'.  Shakespeare and colonial America, for instance.

[LeRainDrop]

It's always interesting to be reminded of things that were contemporous to each other, but that are never thought of 'together'.  Shakespeare and colonial America, for instance.

That's probably because "Colonial America" is traditionally discussed around the English colonies, beginning with Jamestown in 1607, even though, by that time, there were other French, Spanish, Dutch, etc. colonies existing on this continent.  Shakespeare lived from 1564 to 1616, so he mostly precedes that.  Graham cracker.

[Glenstache]

And, according to wikipedia, GCs were not invented until sometime in the 1830s, so the split from Britain is old news by that point. Interesting, they were part of a temperance diet intended to quell sexual desire, so that would definitely push against a cookie categorization. Folks in the temperance movement would be much more in line with a cracker or a wafer instead of something as lusty as a cookie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_Graham

[nereo]

And, according to wikipedia, GCs were not invented until sometime in the 1830s, so the split from Britain is old news by that point. Interesting, they were part of a temperance diet intended to quell sexual desire, so that would definitely push against a cookie categorization. Folks in the temperance movement would be much more in line with a cracker or a wafer instead of something as lusty as a cookie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_Graham

That's it!  no more graham crackers for me before bed!  So... not a cookie, not a cracker, but some form of herbal medicine?

[Metric Mouse]

And, according to wikipedia, GCs were not invented until sometime in the 1830s, so the split from Britain is old news by that point. Interesting, they were part of a temperance diet intended to quell sexual desire, so that would definitely push against a cookie categorization. Folks in the temperance movement would be much more in line with a cracker or a wafer instead of something as lusty as a cookie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_Graham

That's it!  no more graham crackers for me before bed!  So... not a cookie, not a cracker, but some form of herbal medicine?

If unflavored, they'd taste like baked sawdust - so maybe there's an arguement they could be a building material?