Government shutdown

[partgypsy]

I'm a federal employee, so this affects me. I think it's extreme that, a budget that cuts almost all federal agencies (other than defense, VA naatch) up to 30%, while increasing wall building, was still considered too "soft" for some members  of the house Republicans. Where do we go from here? 

[Sailor Sam]

A rolling 6 year plan to replace all 538 of the little gits?

[Michael in ABQ]

Republicans will cave and nearly everyone affected will get a paid vacation. It may be a few days or a few weeks but they'll cave in like they always do.

[Mr. Green]

Not gonna work out very well for them politically

[Travis]

Not gonna work out very well for them politically

Which ironically most of them appear to be aware of. Their performative votes from the last couple nights should play well in campaign ads next summer.

[Fomerly known as something]

Republicans will cave and nearly everyone affected will get a paid vacation. It may be a few days or a few weeks but they'll cave in like they always do.

As one whose entire office goes to work, I don’t get the everyone gets a vacation.  Anyone know how many people actually get furloughed.  At my agency it is mostly Pathways interns and people in training.

[GilesMM]

Luckily it is the tail end of the season for most National Parks.

[Mr. Green]

Republicans will cave and nearly everyone affected will get a paid vacation. It may be a few days or a few weeks but they'll cave in like they always do.

As one whose entire office goes to work, I don’t get the everyone gets a vacation.  Anyone know how many people actually get furloughed.  At my agency it is mostly Pathways interns and people in training.

I worked in the DoD machine during the 2013 shutdown and the impact is significant. At least half. We had contracts shutdown, etc. It was a real mess. Not to mention the whole week of productivity lost leading up to it to prepare and then another week when it was over recovering.

[Fomerly known as something]

Luckily it is the tail end of the season for most National Parks.

I live near to a National Recreation area.  I consider it my backyard.  I was in a meeting with NPS law enforcement last week on an unrelated issue, I asked about access.  He said parking lots and facilities may close, but the area will remain open, mainly because there are no entrance gates, heck at my old apartment a community built unofficial trail connected into the area at the end of the street.  Signs may go up stating “if you get in trouble help might be slower getting to you”. 

[Tass]

My workplace mostly runs on NIH funding (biomedical research). We won't shut down but some of our funding has already been delayed as the NIH has been preparing for the shutdown. It affects what work can be done.

[Travis]

Republicans will cave and nearly everyone affected will get a paid vacation. It may be a few days or a few weeks but they'll cave in like they always do.

As one whose entire office goes to work, I don’t get the everyone gets a vacation.  Anyone know how many people actually get furloughed.  At my agency it is mostly Pathways interns and people in training.

I worked in the DoD machine during the 2013 shutdown and the impact is significant. At least half. We had contracts shutdown, etc. It was a real mess. Not to mention the whole week of productivity lost leading up to it to prepare and then another week when it was over recovering.

Shutdowns end up costing the government billions in the long run because of disrupted contract work. Thanks to the 2013 shut down the DoD ended up a year behind on depot-level maintenance of planes and ships.

[simonsez]

I've worked about 20 hours of OT this pay period just working on contingency plans and specs that were sitting with my federal team (and were due in the first two weeks of October) simply so our 3rd party contractors (who would not be shutdown) can have something to work on while feds are shutdown.

Of course we'll get back pay eventually and spend even more time to pick up the pieces.

Huge.  Waste.  Of.  Taxpayer.  Dollars.

Some shutdowns I've been furloughed, others I've worked, it really depends on what my specific Cabinet leaders specify.

[wenchsenior]

I've worked about 20 hours of OT this pay period just working on contingency plans and specs that were sitting with my federal team (and were due in the first two weeks of October) simply so our 3rd party contractors (who would not be shutdown) can have something to work on while feds are shutdown.

Of course we'll get back pay eventually and spend even more time to pick up the pieces.

Huge.  Waste.  Of.  Taxpayer.  Dollars.

Some shutdowns I've been furloughed, others I've worked, it really depends on what my specific Cabinet leaders specify.

Husband is in the same boat. It's going to be hugely disruptive and expensive if it goes more than a few days. His October is absolutely packed with work-related travel and responsibilities, many of which involve cooperative projects/funding with nonFederal entities who are then affected by the fact that he isn't supposed to work.

Of course, he always DOES work. Every fucking year this happens, he swears that this time he's going to not work. But there's always way way too much stuff to handle (not get behind on work + extra additional work that the shutdown itself generates).

[jinga nation]

Republicans will cave and nearly everyone affected will get a paid vacation. It may be a few days or a few weeks but they'll cave in like they always do.

As one whose entire office goes to work, I don’t get the everyone gets a vacation.  Anyone know how many people actually get furloughed.  At my agency it is mostly Pathways interns and people in training.

I worked in the DoD machine during the 2013 shutdown and the impact is significant. At least half. We had contracts shutdown, etc. It was a real mess. Not to mention the whole week of productivity lost leading up to it to prepare and then another week when it was over recovering.

Been working in DoD contracting since 2006. The contracts I've worked on have been funded well enough to prevent shutdown impacts. However, in 2013, since the gov civilians were furloughed and couldn't come to the office, we weren't allowed to work "unsupervised". My employer gave us until the end of the year to work the "missed 24 hours" that we were paid ahead for, or take PTO. No paid vacation.

This time, the agency I'm with has "mission essential" civilians ready to go to the office so that contractors can keep working. Those civilians will be paid later. The uniformed personnel will not be coming in. They run some key functions so if anyone needs support from them, proper fucked, and then maybe some level of SHTF. Contractor engineers and civilian managers who travel to other sites for equipment maintenance and engineering upgrades have cancelled all travel. Impacts will be felt.

The productivity and morale hit is definitely a royal PITA. Then everyone has to work together to clear backlogs. So damn fucking annoying. Shutdowns are a BOHICA.

[jinga nation]

Republicans will cave and nearly everyone affected will get a paid vacation. It may be a few days or a few weeks but they'll cave in like they always do.

Paid vacation is only for uniformed personnel and civilians. Mission essential civvies still have to show up and work unpaid; they get reimbursed later when the clusterfuck is unraveled partially.
Contractors get a "Fuck You" and have to make up hours or take forced PTO, ruining Thanksgiving/Christmas planned vacations. And they still have to work to make sure those projects are completed on schedule otherwise they get dinged on performance scores and risk losing contract renewals or re-bids.

[uniwelder]

Republicans will cave and nearly everyone affected will get a paid vacation. It may be a few days or a few weeks but they'll cave in like they always do.

As one whose entire office goes to work, I don’t get the everyone gets a vacation.  Anyone know how many people actually get furloughed.  At my agency it is mostly Pathways interns and people in training.

I worked in the DoD machine during the 2013 shutdown and the impact is significant. At least half. We had contracts shutdown, etc. It was a real mess. Not to mention the whole week of productivity lost leading up to it to prepare and then another week when it was over recovering.

Shutdowns end up costing the government billions in the long run because of disrupted contract work. Thanks to the 2013 shut down the DoD ended up a year behind on depot-level maintenance of planes and ships.

Since the shutdown also coincides with a deadline to renew FAA authority to collect ticket taxes, the federal government won't be collecting $54 million dollars per day from the airlines.  A 20 day shutdown equates to over 1 billion dollars of uncollected revenue.

[RetiredAt63]

I'm reading all this and thinking your government is insane.  Sorry.

I know your system has many advantages, but the Parliamentary system where a vote of no confidence (i.e. a budget vote fails) means an election has its advantages.  Voters are often not kind to parties that force an election when voters think it is premature.  Members of Parliament think long and hard about defeating a budget vote.

And during that election period things just chug along as usual.

[jinga nation]

I'm reading all this and thinking your government is insane.  Sorry.

The government is insane, but it is our insane. LOL

The entire nation knows the shutdown is insane. Because Congress keeps on doing the same shit every year, expecting a different outcome.

[Chris Pascale]

All is well now.

Gov't fully funded...........for 6 or so weeks.

[bacchi]

All is well now.

Gov't fully funded...........for 6 or so weeks.

McCarthy will be gone by the end of this week. Instead of working on funding the government, the House will be in chaos until a new Speaker is chosen. The MAGA crowd has furthered its goal.

[Chris Pascale]

All is well now.

Gov't fully funded...........for 6 or so weeks.

McCarthy will be gone by the end of this week. Instead of working on funding the government, the House will be in chaos until a new Speaker is chosen. The MAGA crowd has furthered its goal.

Some people may not realize that this Continuing Resolution is extending another one from a few months back.

Fun fact about my part in saving the gov't last time:

So, there I was, getting a call from my boss - an Associate CFO of the IRS. Upon answering, I see I'm in an executive call. There's a pause and my boss stops everyone.

"Okay, I've brought in Chris. Chris, as you know we're going to run out of money this week. We're here to come up with a game plan on how we're going to be able to run things if that happens. Now, the reason I brought you onto the call is......"

My mind is racing, because I know that he's about to say 'the reason I brought you onto the call is because you have special skills and we need you to figure out how many days we can keep going based on various parameters. It may bring some late nights, and we may need to bring you to DC through the weekend, but if the House can't come together on the budget, it might just buy us enough time.'

Back to reality, "......the reason I brought you onto the call is because I need you to clear my calendar for the rest of the day."

And then I did!

ETA: You're welcome.

[jinga nation]

The fact that these shutdowns are comically happening on an annual basis, predictable yet chicken-little drama, you'd think that Gov agencies and departments would have a plan of action, essential functions and personnel lists, etc.

Just like how folks have disaster preparedness plans and supplies for hurricanes, snowstorms, tornados, fires, or whatever natural disaster their area is most susceptible to.

The govt likes to plan for everything, but it seems not to plan for a kick to its own nuts.
That's just..... nuts.

[economista]

The fact that these shutdowns are comically happening on an annual basis, predictable yet chicken-little drama, you'd think that Gov agencies and departments would have a plan of action, essential functions and personnel lists, etc.

Just like how folks have disaster preparedness plans and supplies for hurricanes, snowstorms, tornados, fires, or whatever natural disaster their area is most susceptible to.

The govt likes to plan for everything, but it seems not to plan for a kick to its own nuts.
That's just..... nuts.

I mean, my agency does. The people (or rather, positions) who are "essential" and have to work vs the ones who stay home are the same every shutdown. What is different about my agency is that we are backed by a special fund that allows us to have carryover funds and the amount of carryover funding isn't always the same. In 2013 we had none. In 2018/19 we had almost 2 weeks, so everyone worked for the first two weeks of the shutdown and then all of us who are non-essential stayed home until it ended. This time they told us we had 13 days and would be furloughed starting on the 14th if a shutdown went that long. 

[partgypsy]

Not gonna work out very well for them politically

  you would think? I thought Jan 6 was the end of extremists in the Gop. That they would be universally condemned. But nope. And now we are going to have to deal w chronic gov shutdowns from the same group of people. I think if they hate gov so much they should fire themselves first. I work at the VA. We are pretty much spared, simply due to political.expediency. if denying vets healthcare was politically expedient, no doubt we would be cut as well. Trump was pushing really hard for the VA to become privatized and divided up. 

[simonsez]

Not gonna work out very well for them politically

  you would think? I thought Jan 6 was the end of extremists in the Gop. That they would be universally condemned. But nope. And now we are going to have to deal w chronic gov shutdowns from the same group of people. I think if they hate gov so much they should fire themselves first. I work at the VA. We are pretty much spared, simply due to political.expediency. if denying vets healthcare was politically expedient, no doubt we would be cut as well. Trump was pushing really hard for the VA to become privatized and divided up.

Government shutdowns and budgetary posturing existed well before the Jan 6 fiasco.

I mean, don't get me wrong - there is one major political party that can shoulder more blame than the other major political party with regard to the "why" of how shutdowns happen but to act like it's always stemming from only the most extreme factions of the GOP doesn't seem accurate unless you are only looking at recent events and extrapolating back in time.  At times it seems like standard operating procedure from the majority of the GOP and not just MTG and her cronies.  You can't shutdown the government without a majority of legislators agreeing to this.  The vast majority of the GOP condemn the Jan 6 attacks so I don't think it's fair to act like our democracy is overrun by extremists.

[ChpBstrd]

If Biden had a spine he would sue Congress for not extending the debt ceiling or re-enacting the Gephart Rule and instruct the Treasury to fund the government anyway. The president cannot NOT follow the budget passed by Congress and also NOT violate the debt ceiling, so it's a form of entrapment. Since budgets are specific, further the goals of the government, and have served as debt instructions in the past, the budget supersedes a Congressional rule that applies to Congress and that Congress refuses to follow. Sounds to me like a winning case that could kill the stupid debt ceiling stunts forever.

But Biden doesn't have much spine. The Republicans who passed this law that they can't follow would impeach him for continuing to run the government as normal. Winning impeachment would be another way to kill the debt ceiling, but the chance of being impeached is too risky for him. Of course, what he's not taking into account is that the Republicans are going to impeach him for breathing their air one of these days anyway.

[SunnyDays]

Does impeachment actually mean anything anymore?

[ChpBstrd]

Does impeachment actually mean anything anymore?

It means voters are polarized and everyone else is indifferent, so instead of appealing to voters to obtain power - i.e. democracy - politicians now plan to use mechanisms once reserved for severe cases of corruption to disrupt their opponents and appeal to their own base. It is, essentially, a symptom of voters viewing democracy as a team sport where cheating is allowed rather than respecting the sanctity of processes and punishing those who abuse those processes.

[blue_green_sparks]

The vast majority of the GOP condemn the Jan 6 attacks so I don't think it's fair to act like our democracy is overrun by extremists.

That was not my impression. Some of the ones running for their lives complained about being attacked at the scene but that was about the extent of it. The GOP leaders approved a resolution that says Jan. 6 was ‘legitimate political discourse’.

G.O.P. Declares Jan. 6 Attack ‘Legitimate Political Discourse’
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/04/republicans-capitol-attack-legitimate-political-discourse-cheney-kinzinger-pence

[jinga nation]

The vast majority of the GOP condemn the Jan 6 attacks so I don't think it's fair to act like our democracy is overrun by extremists.

That was not my impression. Some of the ones running for their lives complained about being attacked at the scene but that was about the extent of it. The GOP leaders approved a resolution that says Jan. 6 was ‘legitimate political discourse’.

G.O.P. Declares Jan. 6 Attack ‘Legitimate Political Discourse’
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/politics/republicans-jan-6-cheney-censure.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/04/republicans-capitol-attack-legitimate-political-discourse-cheney-kinzinger-pence

Most of the GOP members who were inside on Jan 6th would vote for Trump without skipping a beat. They don't have the cojones to actually defy Trump and the MAGA crowd. They'll still vote to Gaslight, Obstruct, and Project. So to say they "condemned" actually means they felt bad this happened and I'm sure they hope it won't happen again. Remember what Susan Collins said about Trump learning his lesson? Aged like milk. Same way, I'm sure these fine GOPers learned their lesson on Jan 6th.
Fuck them all, fuck them good, fuck them now. Man-baby enablers. Trump's their economic outpatient and they let him continue his grift.

[Chris Pascale]

Gaslight, Obstruct, and Project

I see what you did there.

[Just Joe]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

Is this really about protecting profit streams for GOP supporters? I have a hard time thinking they give a flip about anything else.

[bacchi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

Is this really about protecting profit streams for GOP supporters? I have a hard time thinking they give a flip about anything else.

It's hard to raise money when your party's a mess and there's no speaker to lead fundraising.

The National Republican Congressional Committee, the GOP’s House campaign arm, postponed its upcoming fall gala in Dallas that McCarthy was supposed to headline. The committee said McCarthy helped it raise more than $40 million during the last election cycle and $20-plus million so far this cycle.

[GuitarStv]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

Is this really about protecting profit streams for GOP supporters? I have a hard time thinking they give a flip about anything else.

It's hard to raise money when your party's a mess and there's no speaker to lead fundraising.

The National Republican Congressional Committee, the GOP’s House campaign arm, postponed its upcoming fall gala in Dallas that McCarthy was supposed to headline. The committee said McCarthy helped it raise more than $40 million during the last election cycle and $20-plus million so far this cycle.

 . . . because members of your party worked hard to oust their own speaker just to be dicks.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

Is this really about protecting profit streams for GOP supporters? I have a hard time thinking they give a flip about anything else.

It's hard to raise money when your party's a mess and there's no speaker to lead fundraising.

The National Republican Congressional Committee, the GOP’s House campaign arm, postponed its upcoming fall gala in Dallas that McCarthy was supposed to headline. The committee said McCarthy helped it raise more than $40 million during the last election cycle and $20-plus million so far this cycle.

 . . . because members of your party worked hard to oust their own speaker just to be dicks.

Could it be that we're witnessing the extreme end-game of professional tantrum artistry?

[Chris Pascale]

The House has a speaker.

If you judge a book by its cover, he looks Presidential.

If you read what's on the inside, well........don't read what's on the inside.

[jinga nation]

The House has a speaker.

If you judge a book by its cover, he looks Presidential.

If you read what's on the inside, well........don't read what's on the inside.

He's a slick, shady RW nutjob. That's what I read on the outside. That look screams "scammy salesman", at least to me.

[ChpBstrd]

The House has a speaker.

If you judge a book by its cover, he looks Presidential.

If you read what's on the inside, well........don't read what's on the inside.

Definite groomer vibe.

[GuitarStv]

I guess election denial is now a requirement to be respected in the Republican party?  Doesn't bode well for America's future.

[uniwelder]

What happened to Emmer as the nominee? He was actually a moderate and I thought democrats would have voted for him. Did he get a general floor vote or just within republicans?  I’m surprised I haven’t heard much about it.

[sonofsven]

What happened to Emmer as the nominee? He was actually a moderate and I thought democrats would have voted for him. Did he get a general floor vote or just within republicans?  I’m surprised I haven’t heard much about it.

No, he dropped out almost immediately.

[Fomerly known as something]

What happened to Emmer as the nominee? He was actually a moderate and I thought democrats would have voted for him. Did he get a general floor vote or just within republicans?  I’m surprised I haven’t heard much about it.

No, he dropped out almost immediately.

538 podcast mentioned there is no way that Democrats would vote for any Republican and I agree, it would not be in their interest to do so.  I would think the same if the Party in Majority was flipped.

I would say the November shutdown is now on 75% certain and not 100% certain.

[uniwelder]

What happened to Emmer as the nominee? He was actually a moderate and I thought democrats would have voted for him. Did he get a general floor vote or just within republicans?  I’m surprised I haven’t heard much about it.

No, he dropped out almost immediately.

538 podcast mentioned there is no way that Democrats would vote for any Republican and I agree, it would not be in their interest to do so.  I would think the same if the Party in Majority was flipped.

I would say the November shutdown is now on (only?) 75% certain and not 100% certain.

I downloaded the episode I think you're talking about--- 'First Ever House Speaker Draft' and will listen tomorrow.  Electing a moderate seemed to me the surest way to avoid a future shutdown and is what the general public wants--- actual compromise and a legislature focused on governing.  Without someone like Emmer, the republicans were sure to pick an extremist, which they did.  I don't see how this is a win for the democrats, unless they're just counting on more disfunction and self made political emergencies, but I don't see how that works in their favor anymore.

Did you mean to say a shutdown in November is less likely now?  I don't get that.  Why is the legislature more stable with an extremist in charge of the house?

edited to add--- I listened to the podcast.  There was brief mentioning of Emmer (this was a week ago, so he wasn't nominated yet) being the most likely choice for speaker, though without any democrats thought to be voting for him.  They did discuss a particular California republican representative that was in a generally liberal area, had voted to impeach Trump, and was the only republican to do so without getting challenged in a primary the next election cycle.  Even if he was nominated (they imagined it would never happen), they presumed democrats would not vote for him because they would also want spots on various committees and that would never go through.

[Tass]

I don't see how this is a win for the democrats, unless they're just counting on more disfunction and self made political emergencies, but I don't see how that works in their favor anymore.

Did you mean to say a shutdown in November is less likely now?  I don't get that.  Why is the legislature more stable with an extremist in charge of the house?

I think they think it makes Republicans look bad and will continue to do so, which is therefore inherently good for Democrats. It's zero-sum-game thinking, but that's what the two-party system encourages.

[Travis]

Emmer was only the nominee for about four hours. He was nominated, Trump trash talked him an hour or two later, and a couple hours after that he withdrew his name. Whether the god-emperor having an opinion made everyone change their minds, or Emmer simply realized he wasn't going to win and the voting would drag on longer I don't know. The next day the entire GOP got in line behind Johnson without a single word of concern so they might have finally given up and just went with the #2 pick. Gaetz went back on Bannon's show that evening to basically gloat "look at how much power I have." He has very little experience as a legislator and has never held a leadership position in Congress. His political opinions will make for plenty of chatter in the news, and while he's got the gavel we're going to get to hear him say "God" and "Bible" every 10th word so that should be fun.

[GuitarStv]

His disdain for separation of church and state, coupled with his disdain for peaceful transfer of power is worrisome.

[Ron Scott]

So long as the Democrats’ and Republicans’ have the power to force our elected officials to vote like lemmings, as they demand vs. voting with the will of the people in mind, we will have this bullshit and more. And we will continue to see legislation won or lost on party-line voting.

It’s simple: We are not really “represented”. Taxation without representation works great…until it doesn’t.

[Villanelle]

His disdain for separation of church and state, coupled with his disdain for peaceful transfer of power is worrisome.

And his disdain for women, other than as being the incubators of "able-bodied workers".

[tj]

I was hoping for my first shut down as a government employee, we'll see if it comes to fruition.  The continuing resolutions are super annoying - they tie our hands so much with being able to purchase stuff during these CRs.

[Chris Pascale]

I was hoping for my first shut down as a government employee, we'll see if it comes to fruition.  The continuing resolutions are super annoying - they tie our hands so much with being able to purchase stuff during these CRs.

There's still a chance, but they may be reluctant not to put in another continuing resolution with Christmas on the horizon.