Author Topic: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .  (Read 11645 times)

GuitarStv

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Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« on: June 29, 2023, 12:22:01 PM »
Well, we've had several pretty brutal days of poisoned air now spread over a couple weeks here in Toronto . . . and we're nowhere near peak wildfire season yet.  Yesterday I walked the two blocks to pick up my son from school and my eyes were running and throat was feeling pretty raw from the smoke.  I ended up building an air filter from some furnace filters, duct tape, and a fan which at least cleared the house out.

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?  I miss just being able to leave the house in the morning without worrying about what cannister I need to fit in my gas mask.  :P

neo von retorch

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2023, 12:33:32 PM »
Science in Action: How to Build a Corsi-Rosenthal Box

We built one a few weeks ago when the wildfires were affecting Pennsylvania. Wasn't sure if it was going to be worth it since it never happened before. And yet, today the outside air quality is pretty terrible again. Visible haze over relatively short distances, and PM2.5 near 200 in some areas around here.

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2023, 12:48:39 PM »
Science in Action: How to Build a Corsi-Rosenthal Box

We built one a few weeks ago when the wildfires were affecting Pennsylvania. Wasn't sure if it was going to be worth it since it never happened before. And yet, today the outside air quality is pretty terrible again. Visible haze over relatively short distances, and PM2.5 near 200 in some areas around here.

Yep.  Looks just like the one I built last night.  Didn't help my puppy get over missing her walks for the day.  :P

Kris

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2023, 01:07:10 PM »
I'm guessing this is what it will indeed look like going forward. We in the global north are starting to move from climate change as something whose effects we will "start to see" in the future, to something whose effects we are now living. Happy summer.

Thanks, climate deniers.

Monocle Money Mouth

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2023, 01:10:32 PM »
The smoke is pretty bad down in Cleveland too. I just got back from a vacation yesterday. Looking out the airplane window, normally I can see Lake Erie and downtown before landing. I couldn't see the ground until we were a few minutes away from landing. It was just milky white haze. Today isn't much better.

I've never seen wildfire smoke this bad before. It's usually a non-issue in this part of the world.

Davnasty

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2023, 01:29:53 PM »


Speaking of Cleveland...

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2023, 01:37:35 PM »
It really has an apocalyptic feel to it.

Kmp2

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2023, 01:59:47 PM »
It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

It's amazing how some really, really terrible air quality can leave the general public thinking that an 8, or 9 on the scale is acceptable to be out and about exercising in.
It is also incredibly amazing how little people remember how bad it got previously, so be prepared for that in the future. Not speaking of you easterners this year, but we've been dealing with many smoke hours/year for the last 5-7 years. We've had some days in 2017/2018 where I couldn't see the houses down the block (aqi over 800), this year everyone was exclaiming again that this is the worst it's ever been - it was no where close, maybe aqi 300. It possibly hit closer to home because kids were still in school and not on summer break? We spent one summer inside isolating from smoke and covid (before we made a bunch of portable CR boxes). Now that we have clean air to breathe inside all day and night, I'm much more willing to take the kids out from some low exertion activities on moderately smoky days, and we'll wear masks and play outside for short periods up to about 200aqi. This has definitely helped our mental health and I think it is a good balance between the two risks. Praying for rain, even if it doesn't hit the forest fires, it does knock a lot of smoke out of the air.

I'm afraid the pine beetle has moved far enough north in Alberta that it is likely going to be able to expand all the way through the northern prairie provinces and down into the forests of Ontario and Quebec. The high altitude cold had kept it west of the mountains, but warmer winters meant it moved eastward. That's gonna be a lot of dead wood that fires can burn out, so yes more of this still to come.








MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2023, 02:11:28 PM »
California checking in - yes, this is unfortunately what I've come to expect for late summer/early fall. I love being outside, and it's miserable to be trapped indoors. We went 30 days in 2020 with spare the air alerts. 30 days. In a row. It was incredibly miserable, and part of why we bought exercise equipment for our house (we normally would just run outside). In 2020, gyms were also not an option.

FrugalShrew

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2023, 02:15:22 PM »
Science in Action: How to Build a Corsi-Rosenthal Box

We built one a few weeks ago when the wildfires were affecting Pennsylvania. Wasn't sure if it was going to be worth it since it never happened before. And yet, today the outside air quality is pretty terrible again. Visible haze over relatively short distances, and PM2.5 near 200 in some areas around here.

That's super cool! Although your reason for needing to build one obviously sucks...

The increasingly prevalence of wildfires is pretty scary.

curious_george

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2023, 02:19:16 PM »
It is kind of concerning. I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

Definitely has an apocalyptic feel to it.

I've been internally debating at what aqi should I stop walking outside at. Walked outside at 200 aqi yesterday.

I will wait for it to drop below 150 before running outside again.

SunnyDays

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2023, 02:30:39 PM »
I live between @GuitarStv and @Kmp2 and so far we’ve had a few days of mild smoke here and there but nothing really bad or sustained. I guess the air currents have been in our favour because we also have fires up north.  Hopefully it stays that way.  Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time.

StarBright

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2023, 02:55:16 PM »
It is kind of concerning. I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

Definitely has an apocalyptic feel to it.

I've been internally debating at what aqi should I stop walking outside at. Walked outside at 200 aqi yesterday.

I will wait for it to drop below 150 before running outside again.

I'm in Ohio too. I had to run an errand last night and driving through our little downtown, I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner! We were also over 200 yesterday and the smoke was visible and you could smell it. Ohioans remain blithely unconcerned apparently :)

I took the dog on a short walk yesterday just so he could use the bathroom and came back with a scratchy throat and itchy eyes. So I'm not planning on being outside without a mask until we get below 150 again.

Frugal Lizard

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2023, 03:07:54 PM »
Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety.

It is better today, but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2023, 04:19:27 PM »
California checking in - yes, this is unfortunately what I've come to expect for late summer/early fall. I love being outside, and it's miserable to be trapped indoors. We went 30 days in 2020 with spare the air alerts. 30 days. In a row. It was incredibly miserable, and part of why we bought exercise equipment for our house (we normally would just run outside). In 2020, gyms were also not an option.
Californian here too and dreading the fire season also. Plan to be gone during much of it (Mid-Aug to Oct) but it seems to last longer every year - last year being the exception. I didn't realize it was that bad in the upper Midwest (no TV or news for over a month) but wow it's bad!. Seems no where is safe anymore.

We would sometimes vacation on the Oregon coast to escape, but guess what? They've had wildfires there as well when we were vacationing. There's truly no place safe. It's wild. And, agreed that it's just getting longer & longer, last year as the exception.

Just Joe

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2023, 06:59:48 PM »
I'm further south by several states and we are seeing the smoke too. I woke up a few weeks ago and thought I smelled smoke inside the house so I walked through all the rooms and garage. Then noticed the smoke was outside and not likely from local sources thanks to the news. Very hazy for days here. Fortunately rains today cleared everything out for a bit.

I fear nothing will make the climate change deniers change their minds seeing there is a big overlap with other recent topics in politics. If they can't see the reality there, I doubt they'll ever accept the science. I guess decisions will have to be made without them to clean up the environment i.e. more transit, more BEVs, less gas guzzlers over time.

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2023, 07:51:10 PM »
Chicago area has had it pretty bad too, which is also really bad timing because mom is recovering from pneumonia and can't tolerate the poor air quality.

Masks help (N95). Irritated eyes I find the artificial tears eye drops (not redness reducing) can help. Gargling with salt water soothes the throat. Plenty of water to stay hydrated also helps some.

Hope everyone gets some rain. Would probably help with the fires, would help lay the smoke, and would help with the drought.

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2023, 08:07:12 PM »
We've had some days in 2017/2018 where I couldn't see the houses down the block (aqi over 800)

800?  That's horrifying.  Over 150 starts to feel irritating to my throat and lungs.

HPstache

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2023, 12:21:12 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

Cassie

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2023, 01:21:56 AM »
I have lived in Nevada for 26 years and I remember that fires weren’t a big problem back then. The last 7 years have been bad. One year I didn’t leave the house for a month because of the smoke and I have asthma. I bought a pedal bike for inside but it doesn’t replace the ability to walk outside for exercise. My dogs are little so can get their exercise in the house but enjoy the social aspect of walking outside.  I really feel for the people suffering.

curious_george

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2023, 05:59:39 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

Some people are much more sensitive to air pollution than other people. Some people don't seem to be phased much at all. I think this depends on the person, imo.

For example, I have a cousin who will have an asthma attack within 50 feet of someone smoking outside. She moved out into the country, and she still has an asthma attack if her neighbor has a bonfire 500 feet away. She is probably sitting inside right now with her hepa purifiers running on full blast.

On the flip side I have a friend who is ex-military, 220 pounds, solid muscle, served in Iraq, and I'm pretty sure he can breathe in sand when it's 120 degrees outside, for 12 hours straight, while on patrol with 50 pounds of gear on his back, while being shot at, and he would say everything is fine and he is having a good time. He would probably run straight through the forest fire, just so he could brag about running through a forest fire, lol. No amount of heat, cold, smoke, etc seems to phase him at all. And even if it did - he would not say anything. He would just choke to death quietly, while pretending he is not choking, because his greatest fear is to admit to any form of weakness.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2023, 06:14:48 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

Some of you people are too young to realize just how much things have changed in the last 50 years.  IMO.


Story time.  Sudbury used to have lush forests.  Then it had nickel refineries and the forests died and they practised with the lunar module outside Sudbury,  Then they re-greened.  People who played in the lunar landscape as kids grew up thinking that was normal, and were a bit disconcerted when they saw the new trees (I've talked with them, this is what they told me).  People who remembered the forests knew it was not normal, and saw the return of the forest as a return to how things should be.  You are the kid playing in a lunar landscape and thinking it is normal.

Metalcat

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2023, 06:22:18 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?

I just had a few days of poor air quality out here in Newfoundland, very brief because the fires are pretty far and we've had the rainiest spring on record, but I woke up with my eyes puffy and red and my throat in pain.

I looked and felt like I had had a rough night of excessive drinking and puking. My DH was fine, just a slight sore throat and he was more thirsty than normal.

Cool for you if the smoke doesn't affect you much, but smoke is highly inflammatory and it's around in levels where the public health advice is to not go outside because the air is literal poison.

Even if it doesn't affect you, surely you are aware of the vast number of seniors and medically more fragile folks who exist in these affected areas. Or even for medically robust folks how unpleasant it can be to not be able to get outside, especially in northern climates where summer months are brief.

I'm so grateful to be currently sitting outside on a beautiful clear day because the weather here is inhospitable 9 months of the year.

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2023, 07:17:43 AM »
Cool for you if the smoke doesn't affect you much, but smoke is highly inflammatory and it's around in levels where the public health advice is to not go outside because the air is literal poison.

Even if the smoke doesn't cause enough burning/irritation to bother somebody, the smoke is still effecting them - and probably in a big way.  PM 2.5 particles are small enough to enter your bloodstream through your lungs . . . and have been linked to a variety of heart and lung problems further down the road.  Not to mention the cancer risks.

Metalcat

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2023, 07:28:01 AM »
Cool for you if the smoke doesn't affect you much, but smoke is highly inflammatory and it's around in levels where the public health advice is to not go outside because the air is literal poison.

Even if the smoke doesn't cause enough burning/irritation to bother somebody, the smoke is still effecting them - and probably in a big way.  PM 2.5 particles are small enough to enter your bloodstream through your lungs . . . and have been linked to a variety of heart and lung problems further down the road.  Not to mention the cancer risks.

Lol, yes, I know, I was trying to be nice. But that's why I referred to smoke as being highly inflammatory and the air being toxic.

neo von retorch

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2023, 07:42:19 AM »
Quote from: TreeLeaf
Definitely has an apocalyptic feel to it.

Probably what was being referred to. Note this comment says "has a feel" - i.e. this makes me think of.

Given that we spend the vast majority of our lives not seeing anything like this at all, or this severity of massive fires smoking up the skies, for this to feel like the world is changing in a way that could end a lot of lives isn't drama, it's natural observation.

But perhaps more interesting is why someone would try to call out such things to downplay them and presumably mock such an impression?

What's the goal there... ?

jrhampt

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2023, 07:53:55 AM »
Yes, it is sad, and it feels like doom is in the air.  I miss morning runs in the bright blue days of spring and summer.  My eyes burn, but it's more depressing than anything else.  I have an air filter now, which I expect to use multiple times this summer.

jrhampt

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2023, 07:58:12 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

Some of you people are too young to realize just how much things have changed in the last 50 years.  IMO.


Story time.  Sudbury used to have lush forests.  Then it had nickel refineries and the forests died and they practised with the lunar module outside Sudbury,  Then they re-greened.  People who played in the lunar landscape as kids grew up thinking that was normal, and were a bit disconcerted when they saw the new trees (I've talked with them, this is what they told me).  People who remembered the forests knew it was not normal, and saw the return of the forest as a return to how things should be.  You are the kid playing in a lunar landscape and thinking it is normal.

Yep.  I remember a New England where snow stayed on the ground through March/April, and if you even had air conditioner you might use it for a handful of days in July.  My neighborhood was not in a flood plain until a few years ago.

Kris

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2023, 08:10:42 AM »
Quote from: TreeLeaf
Definitely has an apocalyptic feel to it.

Probably what was being referred to. Note this comment says "has a feel" - i.e. this makes me think of.

Given that we spend the vast majority of our lives not seeing anything like this at all, or this severity of massive fires smoking up the skies, for this to feel like the world is changing in a way that could end a lot of lives isn't drama, it's natural observation.

But perhaps more interesting is why someone would try to call out such things to downplay them and presumably mock such an impression?

What's the goal there... ?

To me, it functions as a thought-terminating cliche. The right has hammered the "these fears are false/silly/overblown" for so long that it has become a sort of automatic response by anyone of that persuasion to any discussion of the effects of climate change. The automatic response is tripped, sort of like when a fuse is blown, and that's it. No more thinking required.

HPstache

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2023, 08:13:06 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

poisoned air

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

It really has an apocalyptic feel to it.

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time.

I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!

Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety.

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

jrhampt

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2023, 08:21:42 AM »
It's not that the people in this thread are being dramatic; it's that these are dramatic changes. 

curious_george

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2023, 08:23:14 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

poisoned air

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

It really has an apocalyptic feel to it.

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time.

I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!

Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety.

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

Are you a Christian, Republican, man, who drives a truck, perhaps?

(Please read this as a simple curiosity, not as an accusation)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 08:27:51 AM by TreeLeaf »

HPstache

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2023, 08:25:45 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

poisoned air

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

It really has an apocalyptic feel to it.

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time.

I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!

Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety.

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

Are you a Christian, Republican, man, who drives a truck, perhaps?

Nice one, got me good

curious_george

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2023, 08:28:55 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

poisoned air

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

It really has an apocalyptic feel to it.

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time.

I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!

Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety.

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

Are you a Christian, Republican, man, who drives a truck, perhaps?

Nice one, got me good

Oh, awesome. I was just curious.

Nothing wrong with that. :)

ETA: I am a political independent, agnostic, man, who drives a car.

And yes I am overly dramatic. :D
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 08:33:36 AM by TreeLeaf »

HPstache

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2023, 08:37:57 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

poisoned air

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

It really has an apocalyptic feel to it.

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time.

I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!

Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety.

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

Are you a Christian, Republican, man, who drives a truck, perhaps?

Nice one, got me good

Oh, awesome. I was just curious.

Nothing wrong with that. :)

ETA: I am a political independent, agnostic, man, who drives a car.

And yes I am overly dramatic. :D

I'm only about half of those things, mostly offended that you think I'm a republican

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2023, 08:47:47 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

poisoned air

The air is literally poisoned . . . that's what we're dealing with here - https://www.epa.gov/wildfire-smoke-course/why-wildfire-smoke-health-concern

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

The general consensus seems to be that wildfires will significantly increase going forward due to climate change:

https://public.wmo.int/en/media/news/number-of-wildfires-forecast-rise-50-2100

https://www.preventionweb.net/publication/climate-change-and-wildfires-projecting-future-wildfire-potential

https://www.washington.edu/news/2021/07/27/possible-future-for-western-wildfires-decade-long-burst-followed-by-gradual-decline/

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Research confirms this to be true:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-as-an-outlier/202306/the-effects-of-wildfires-on-mental-health#:~:text=Unsurprisingly%2C%20all%20of%20the%20studies,et%20al.%2C%202023).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34562964/

https://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/home/topics/general-psychiatry/impact-of-wild-fires-mental-health/

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/assets/info/amh/if-amh-mhpip-disaster-wildfire-smoke-mental-health-public.pdf

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

Seems about right - https://atmosphere.copernicus.eu/europe-experiences-significant-transport-smoke-canada-wildfires


but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

Yes, this did happen - https://www.blogto.com/city/2023/06/toronto-moves-top-spot-worst-air-quality-world/.  Typically, Toronto has pretty good air quality so this is certainly concerning to many of us who live here.



You can argue about some of the language used maybe, but most of the things listed as 'overly dramatic' are scientifically verifiable and completely true.

Metalcat

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2023, 08:58:06 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

poisoned air

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

It really has an apocalyptic feel to it.

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time.

I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!

Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety.

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

But... many of these are just stating facts.

"I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much."

This is just a statement of fact. People from certain regions are less accustomed to major natural events. How is this an extreme statement?

"poisoned air"

Smokey air is poisonous. This isn't an opinion, it's a medical fact. Some jurisdictions are looking at banning gas ranges because of the safety to people exposed to them, so an air full of very noticeable particulate for long periods of time is inarguably poisonous. This isn't rhetoric for dramatic effect, it's simple fact.

"I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?"

This isn't dramatic at all, it's just restating what literally every expert is publicly saying, repeatedly, and asking governments to better prepare because their current approach is insufficient. Again, just someone observing that they are going to have to accept a fact.

"It really has an apocalyptic feel to it."

I mean, it does. Even just esthetically. When I looked outside at the orange sun and the smoke so thick that I couldn't see the ocean in front of my house, it was fucking freaky looking. Behind my house was totally clear and this thick, stinky cloud was moving in at us. It was literally exactly like the scene from "The Mist," but with the crazy looking orange sun.

When the world around you suddenly looks dramatically different and you know it's because a nearby fire has been deemed "out of control", it's pretty reasonable to say it has an apocalyptic feel. Especially in regions where people have never experienced it before.

"It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days."


Again, do you live in a northern climate? These are fires in Canada.

Do you know what it's like for nice summer weather to be a precious thing? In my region, the moment there's a bit of sun, people are outside BBQing in t-shirts even if it's still literally freezing and the ground is still covered in snow. We wait half the year to be able to just leave the house without having to plan protective gear. Losing that is emotionally hard, especially when you are being told to accept that it will likely happen more often.

Also, "pea soup smoke" sounds incredibly accurate to me. The air is yellow and thick and gross. Throw in heat waves where the air already feels like "soup" and it makes perfect sense. In my home city, the worst of the smoke coincided with temps of over 40C/104F.

"Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time."

This might have been my quote?? If it is, then I'm currently at my summer home in Newfoundland where it was snowing 8 days ago. I'm not being dramatic about the weather here, the weather here is dramatic. May and half of June here were winter weather. Half the year there are hurricane winds here and it's hard to go outside. When the heavy smoke came in, it was during our first hospitable weather of the year and we were told to stay inside. It was unpleasant outside, and people were extremely upset that our first days of sun, in late June, we couldn't comfortably spend time outside. Everyone here is grateful that our weather turned back to being fucking cold and rainy because it made the smoke go away.

You try living in northern Newfoundland, lol, I guarantee you too will get a little dramatic about the weather.

"I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!"

I don't know where this was or how bad the smoke was there, but in some places with how heavy it has been, that would be surprising to see.

"Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety."

I mean, again, this is just stating a fact. If someone is having throat pain despite wearing an N95 mask, that would be reasonably distressing, especially if the smoke hangs around for a long time

"There's truly no place safe. It's wild."

When I'm not in Newfoundland, I live in an inland city where growing up I had never seen a single extreme weather event except for many epic winter storms. In the past few years we've had major tornadoes, 2 "hundred year floods," and now weeks on end of uncontrollable wildfires.

It was a place that less than 10 years ago I would have assumed would never really deal with any of these things, so it's not unreasonable for people to find it "wild" that there really don't seem to be any places left where you don't have to worry about major natural events.

If you know of an area that doesn't experience these events, feel free to share.

"but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world."

Again, this is just a fact. How is it overly dramatic to state a fact? My inland city often gets colder than Mars. That's just a fact. It's not over dramatizing the cold to state a fact. If a place is colder than Mars, it is just factually colder than Mars. If the air quality in Toronto is the worst in the world, then it is the worst in the world.

I can't imagine what that's like. Our few days of heavy smoke waaaaay out here on this remote island were pretty unpleasant, but nowhere near as bad as it was back home (my other home is not far from Toronto). With how badly swollen my eyes were out here, I'm incredibly grateful that I'm here and not at my other home dealing far worse air quality for weeks on end.

So again, if you have a body that doesn't react much to literally poisonous air, or you don't live in a region that is heavily affected by smoke, then that's great for you.

But I'm truly surprised by you categorizing statements of fact as overly dramatic.

I hate to say this because it sets people off, but that is literally the definition of gaslighting.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 09:02:02 AM by Metalcat »

HPstache

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2023, 09:00:47 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

poisoned air

The air is literally poisoned . . . that's what we're dealing with here - https://www.epa.gov/wildfire-smoke-course/why-wildfire-smoke-health-concern

Ctrl + F, no use of an over dramatic word like poison.  Please don't tell my wife that we are poisoning our children on our next camping trip, or the rest of history where people sat around fires ever day that they are poisoning themselves.  Over Dramatic.

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

The general consensus seems to be that wildfires will significantly increase going forward due to climate change:

https://public.wmo.int/en/media/news/number-of-wildfires-forecast-rise-50-2100

https://www.preventionweb.net/publication/climate-change-and-wildfires-projecting-future-wildfire-potential

https://www.washington.edu/news/2021/07/27/possible-future-for-western-wildfires-decade-long-burst-followed-by-gradual-decline/

Mutliple people have mentioned "first" and "never before" in this thread... so one time now logically means it will be this way forever?  Over dramatic.

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Research confirms this to be true:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-as-an-outlier/202306/the-effects-of-wildfires-on-mental-health#:~:text=Unsurprisingly%2C%20all%20of%20the%20studies,et%20al.%2C%202023).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34562964/

https://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/home/topics/general-psychiatry/impact-of-wild-fires-mental-health/

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/assets/info/amh/if-amh-mhpip-disaster-wildfire-smoke-mental-health-public.pdf

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

Seems about right - https://atmosphere.copernicus.eu/europe-experiences-significant-transport-smoke-canada-wildfires

Straight up over dramatic after the pandemic where half the population thought staying indoors was the best solution.


but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

Yes, this did happen - https://www.blogto.com/city/2023/06/toronto-moves-top-spot-worst-air-quality-world/.  Typically, Toronto has pretty good air quality so this is certainly concerning to many of us who live here.

Yes, it did.  But it also means pretty much nothing, it's a over dramatic thing to point out.



You can argue about some of the language used maybe, but most of the things listed as 'overly dramatic' are scientifically verifiable and completely true.

Using certain, overly dramatic, language is mostly my problem

neo von retorch

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2023, 09:03:02 AM »
But I'm truly surprised by you categorizing statements of fact as overly dramatic.

I hate to say this because it sets people off, but that is literally the definition of gaslighting.

That was my thought exactly. I haven't had to block anyone in a while (mostly because I try to refrain from posting and following a lot of threads 😅), but I don't think anyone needs gaslighting in their life if it can be avoided.

Kris

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2023, 09:07:11 AM »
But I'm truly surprised by you categorizing statements of fact as overly dramatic.

I hate to say this because it sets people off, but that is literally the definition of gaslighting.

That was my thought exactly. I haven't had to block anyone in a while (mostly because I try to refrain from posting and following a lot of threads 😅), but I don't think anyone needs gaslighting in their life if it can be avoided.

Truth. And also, he is gaslighting himself. See "thought-terminating cliche" above.

Republican politicians don't even really have to do this anymore. Because their base is now doing the work for them.

HPstache

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2023, 09:17:06 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

poisoned air

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

It really has an apocalyptic feel to it.

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time.

I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!

Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety.

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

But... many of these are just stating facts.

"I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much."

This is just a statement of fact. People from certain regions are less accustomed to major natural events. How is this an extreme statement?

No it's not.  Ohio is not dealing with a natural disaster, don't let people who have actually dealt with a natural disaster hear this.  They are experiencing smoke from a forest fire (natural disaster) in Canada.

"poisoned air"

Smokey air is poisonous. This isn't an opinion, it's a medical fact. Some jurisdictions are looking at banning gas ranges because of the safety to people exposed to them, so an air full of very noticeable particulate for long periods of time is inarguably poisonous. This isn't rhetoric for dramatic effect, it's simple fact.

Yes, it is rhetoric for dramatic effect.  Maybe that's also why there was talk of gas mask canister sticky out tongue at the end of the post, maybe I drew the wrong line about what was serious and what was silly in the post.

"I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?"

This isn't dramatic at all, it's just restating what literally every expert is publicly saying, repeatedly, and asking governments to better prepare because their current approach is insufficient. Again, just someone observing that they are going to have to accept a fact.

See above.

"It really has an apocalyptic feel to it."

I mean, it does. Even just esthetically. When I looked outside at the orange sun and the smoke so thick that I couldn't see the ocean in front of my house, it was fucking freaky looking. Behind my house was totally clear and this thick, stinky cloud was moving in at us. It was literally exactly like the scene from "The Mist," but with the crazy looking orange sun.

When the world around you suddenly looks dramatically different and you know it's because a nearby fire has been deemed "out of control", it's pretty reasonable to say it has an apocalyptic feel. Especially in regions where people have never experienced it before.

"It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days."


Again, do you live in a northern climate? These are fires in Canada.

Do you know what it's like for nice summer weather to be a precious thing? In my region, the moment there's a bit of sun, people are outside BBQing in t-shirts even if it's still literally freezing and the ground is still covered in snow. We wait half the year to be able to just leave the house without having to plan protective gear. Losing that is emotionally hard, especially when you are being told to accept that it will likely happen more often.

Also, "pea soup smoke" sounds incredibly accurate to me. The air is yellow and thick and gross. Throw in heat waves where the air already feels like "soup" and it makes perfect sense. In my home city, the worst of the smoke coincided with temps of over 40C/104F.

Yes, I live in Northwest WA and we have been dealing with this for years.

"Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time."

This might have been my quote?? If it is, then I'm in Newfoundland where it was snowing 8 days ago. I'm not being dramatic about the weather here, the weather here is dramatic. May and half of June here were winter weather. Half the year there are hurricane winds here and it's hard to go outside. When the heavy smoke came in, it was during our first hospitable weather of the year and we were told to stay inside. It was unpleasant outside, and people were extremely upset that our first days of sun, in late June, we couldn't comfortably spend time outside. Everyone here is grateful that our weather turned back to being fucking cold and rainy because it made the smoke go away.

You try living in northern Newfoundland, lol, I guarantee you too will get a little dramatic about the weather.

ALL THE TIME

"I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!"

I don't know where this was or how bad the smoke was there, but in some places with how heavy it has been, that would be surprising to see.

JUST SO SHOCKING TO SEE SOMEONE OUTSIDE EATING BY THEIR CAMPFIRE TOO

"Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety."

I mean, again, this is just stating a fact. If someone is having throat pain despite wearing an N95 mask, that would be reasonably distressing, especially if the smoke hangs around for a long time

Maybe this is more snark... but do they work or not?  I keep hearing conflicting info.

"There's truly no place safe. It's wild."

When I'm not in Newfoundland, I live in an inland city where growing up I had never seen a single extreme weather event except for many epic winter storms. In the past few years we've had major tornadoes, 2 "hundred year floods," and now weeks on end of uncontrollable wildfires.

It was a place that less than 10 years ago I would have assumed would never really deal with any of these things, so it's not unreasonable for people to find it "wild" that there really don't seem to be any places left where you don't have to worry about major natural events.

If you know of an area that doesn't experience these events, feel free to share.

"but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world."

Again, this is just a fact. How is it overly dramatic to state a fact? My inland city often gets colder than Mars. That's just a fact. It's not over dramatizing the cold to state a fact. If a place is colder than Mars, it is just factually colder than Mars. If the air quality in Toronto is the worst in the world, then it is the worst in the world.

See above.  What does it really mean?

I can't imagine what that's like. Our few days of heavy smoke waaaaay out here on this remote island were pretty unpleasant, but nowhere near as bad as it was back home (my other home is not far from Toronto). With how badly swollen my eyes were out here, I'm incredibly grateful that I'm here and not at my other home dealing far worse air quality for weeks on end.

So again, if you have a body that doesn't react much to literally poisonous air, or you don't live in a region that is heavily affected by smoke, then that's great for you.

But I'm truly surprised by you categorizing statements of fact as overly dramatic.

I hate to say this because it sets people off, but that is literally the definition of gaslighting.

Listen, I was told to explain why this thread is being overly dramatic and I stated my case.  If you disagree, that's fine.


Metalcat

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2023, 09:23:02 AM »
Fair enough, agree to radically disagree.

But remember, you're the one who came into a thread and directly criticized and invalidated all of the people posting.

Don't be surprised when people don't take that well.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2023, 09:29:27 AM »
I'm old.

I have been watching the climate change in my local area for about 60 years now (since I was old enough to actually pay attention).  HPstache is young (36 is young) and lacks perspective.

Just for southwestern Quebec/eastern Ontario:
I have watched the growing season get longer.
I've watched ticks with Lyme disease go from incredibly rare to over 50% infected (plus more ticks in total).
I have watched ice storms go from extremely rare events to commonplace every winter. 
I've watched average snowfall decrease.  Snow is a protector/insulator, its absence has a lot of negative effects.
I've watched extreme storms get more common.  I had never even heard the term derecho wind used until a few years ago. 
I've seen northern Ontario/Quebec forest fires go from common in late summer but contained to common in early summer and now late spring, and uncontained.

(I also got to see contaminated air in Auckland from fires in Australia.  The Tasman Sea is 2,250 km (1,400 mi) wide.)

I don't think anyone responding negatively to all this is being overly dramatic. 


StarBright

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2023, 09:31:01 AM »

"I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!"

I don't know where this was or how bad the smoke was there, but in some places with how heavy it has been, that would be surprising to see.

JUST SO SHOCKING TO SEE SOMEONE OUTSIDE EATING BY THEIR CAMPFIRE TOO


This was me^.  FWIW - When the wind starts blowing the campfire smoke in my face, I move to the other side of the campfire.

Anyways, I was shocked to see people outside because our riverwalk looked like the attached picture. And it smelled like burnt plastic. I love dining outside, but if it smells bad and has bad visibility (and also is considered hazardous), I wouldn't do it. I was shocked that it didn't bother other people at all.


neo von retorch

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2023, 09:38:19 AM »
FWIW - When the wind starts blowing the campfire smoke in my face, I move to the other side of the campfire.

I have an air quality monitor, and I used it around my campfire. The PM2.5 was no worse than any other outdoor air around me unless I put the monitor in the path of the smoke. The thing about a tiny fire in the outdoors is that diffusion works quickly and efficiently to distribute particulate matter far and wide, and the ratio of "outside air" to a campfire is... really large.

Dicey

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2023, 09:47:09 AM »
Well, we've had several pretty brutal days of poisoned air now spread over a couple weeks here in Toronto . . . and we're nowhere near peak wildfire season yet.  Yesterday I walked the two blocks to pick up my son from school and my eyes were running and throat was feeling pretty raw from the smoke.  I ended up building an air filter from some furnace filters, duct tape, and a fan which at least cleared the house out.

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?  I miss just being able to leave the house in the morning without worrying about what cannister I need to fit in my gas mask.  :P
Uh, how about a little sympathy for the people who are experiencing the fires first hand? As for the smoke, don't you have any N-95s on hand?

neo von retorch

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2023, 09:50:38 AM »
Uh, how about a little sympathy for the people who are experiencing the fires first hand? As for the smoke, don't you have any N-95s on hand?

Hmm, I need more clarity of perspective here. I'm not sure pointing out the downsides of the situation are you in discounts the downsides of being in worse situations. We are all viewing the world from our position and our own perspective, and that's natural. Sure, it's nice to also recognize people that are not you and have things worse off but I'm not sure why you have to be reprimanded in some way if you don't do so.

Just Joe

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2023, 10:07:00 AM »
"It really has an apocalyptic feel to it."

I mean, it does. Even just esthetically. When I looked outside at the orange sun and the smoke so thick that I couldn't see the ocean in front of my house, it was fucking freaky looking. Behind my house was totally clear and this thick, stinky cloud was moving in at us. It was literally exactly like the scene from "The Mist," but with the crazy looking orange sun.

When the world around you suddenly looks dramatically different and you know it's because a nearby fire has been deemed "out of control", it's pretty reasonable to say it has an apocalyptic feel. Especially in regions where people have never experienced it before.

Reminds me of the scenes in Blade Runner 2049 in Vegas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osaiN-RcxqM

Anyone having trouble with their home's smoke alarms being triggered by the Canadian smoke? Not mine but I've wondered about it in places further north.

curious_george

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2023, 10:19:08 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

I am in Ohio. We normally don't have to deal with natural disasters much.

poisoned air

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?

It really has an apocalyptic feel to it.

It is very hard on your mental health to be socked in by pea soup smoke on what should be our best, brightest summer days.

Summers are too short here to be stuck inside all the time.

I was shocked to see tons of people sitting outdoors eating dinner!

Nothing like a raw throat despite wearing an N95 while watering the garden to up the climate change anxiety.

There's truly no place safe. It's wild. 

but yesterday mid day Toronto had the worst air quality in the world.

Are you a Christian, Republican, man, who drives a truck, perhaps?

Nice one, got me good

Oh, awesome. I was just curious.

Nothing wrong with that. :)

ETA: I am a political independent, agnostic, man, who drives a car.

And yes I am overly dramatic. :D

I'm only about half of those things, mostly offended that you think I'm a republican

Ah - gotcha. I don't think being a Republican is offensive, personally. People identify with certain political parties for all sorts of different reasons, and I have helped vote some Republicans into office. I have several Republican friends I get along with just as well as my Democrat friends.

I thought maybe you did not believe in climate change and saw the forest fires as a threat to your belief system and was downplaying everyone's thoughts and feelings for this reason.

If you go in to a group of people and invalidate and criticize everyone's thoughts and feelings, at the same time, you should expect people to get offended though. I mean, that's just common sense.

GuitarStv

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Re: Getting kinda bummed out about these wildfires . . .
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2023, 11:22:47 AM »
Some of you people are being a little overdramatic.  IMO

I'm curious what part you think is over dramatic?


Some samples:

poisoned air

The air is literally poisoned . . . that's what we're dealing with here - https://www.epa.gov/wildfire-smoke-course/why-wildfire-smoke-health-concern

Ctrl + F, no use of an over dramatic word like poison.  Please don't tell my wife that we are poisoning our children on our next camping trip, or the rest of history where people sat around fires ever day that they are poisoning themselves.  Over Dramatic.

If ability to comprehend is limited to use of keyboard shortcuts, then certainly I can understand the confusion.  Perhaps this will help?

poi·son - a substance, natural or synthetic, that causes damage to living tissues and has an injurious or fatal effect on the body, whether it is ingested, inhaled, or absorbed or injected through the skin

If you are forcing your children to sit directly in the smoke from your campfire for hours and days at a time on your camping trips, you are indeed poisoning them.  That probably qualifies as child abuse to be honest.  It's not quite as bad as wildfire smoke though . . . which appears to become significantly more toxic as it spends time in the atmosphere - https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/four-times-more-toxic-how-wildfire-smoke-ages-over-time.



Well, we've had several pretty brutal days of poisoned air now spread over a couple weeks here in Toronto . . . and we're nowhere near peak wildfire season yet.  Yesterday I walked the two blocks to pick up my son from school and my eyes were running and throat was feeling pretty raw from the smoke.  I ended up building an air filter from some furnace filters, duct tape, and a fan which at least cleared the house out.

I guess this is what summer will be like going forwards?  I miss just being able to leave the house in the morning without worrying about what cannister I need to fit in my gas mask.  :P
Uh, how about a little sympathy for the people who are experiencing the fires first hand? As for the smoke, don't you have any N-95s on hand?

My dad's farm is just outside of Ottawa, and he has had a couple weeks this years already where it wasn't safe to leave the house because of the smoke.  Certainly much worse than what we've had.  It wasn't my intent to dismiss the suffering of others.

The fact that it's impacting so many people from all over is an aspect of this that I find very depressing.