Author Topic: Game of Thrones is back!!  (Read 12134 times)

ncornilsen

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 875
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #200 on: May 14, 2019, 11:05:19 AM »
I think Bronn's talk of former cutthroats ruling the world was prophetic - I predict he will become king of westeros at the end. because reasons.

BicycleB

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
  • Location: Live Music Capital of the World
  • Older than the internet, but not wiser... yet
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #201 on: May 14, 2019, 11:10:15 AM »

Psychstache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #202 on: May 14, 2019, 11:33:31 AM »
I wonder if Bran could warg into Drogon, and kill Dany that way?


I've lost the belief he's going to do anything like that. He's been useless as tits on a boar for a while now. His warging has been so vastly underused lately at times it should have been obvious to use it --a lot like Arya's faces -- that those powers may as well not even exist anymore.

This right here might be the best use of Bran yet!

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/14/18618634/game-of-thrones-bran-kings-landing-burned-daenerys

Samuel

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • Location: the slippery slope
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #203 on: May 14, 2019, 12:19:35 PM »
Feeling a bit surly. Cheered by this, would have been cooler:

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-better-way-game-of-thrones-could-have-arrived-at-this-1834720538

That would have been so much better.

The last season (or two, really) just feel like they took a rushed first draft and went ahead and shot it. Maybe they had to fire all the writers because the CGI budget used up the whole 90 million (the estimates for the cost of season 8).

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #204 on: May 14, 2019, 12:35:04 PM »
Jon when he finds out they blew a $90M budget this season, but didn't have enough left for him to pet his wolf good bye:


techwiz

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 690
  • Location: Ontario
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #205 on: May 14, 2019, 12:46:41 PM »
Jon when he finds out they blew a $90M budget this season, but didn't have enough left for him to pet his wolf good bye:

Jon might going back north above the wall to live with his direwolf Ghost after all this is over, maybe find another Ygritte.   

Lulee

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: NH
  • "We'll jump off that bridge when we come to it."
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #206 on: May 19, 2019, 08:53:35 PM »
Jon might going back north above the wall to live with his direwolf Ghost after all this is over, maybe find another Ygritte.   

techwiz for the win!

Damn if they didn't go and give us all a happily ever after ending (well, what passes for one in Westeros)!!!!!

BicycleB

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
  • Location: Live Music Capital of the World
  • Older than the internet, but not wiser... yet
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #207 on: May 19, 2019, 11:51:50 PM »
Jon Snow, the Queen Slayer...

not our Mustachian @Jon_Snow, of course.

PS. Somewhat fitting that Sansa was the objector to Bran, in that she is most realpolitik type of the remaining lords/ladies. Also interesting that Bran's rise is sort of like Rome's Emperor Claudius.

Nick_Miller

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 966
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #208 on: May 20, 2019, 07:04:40 AM »
6/10. I am disappointed but it's not like I'm going to petition for a new 8th season. We have real life dragons to deal with.

MVP: Ummm...I guess Tyrion? He pushed Jon to act, and he pushed the council to act. Killing Dany and picking a new ruler were two things that had to happen, and he forced the issue on both. Plus, he's the hand again (for what, the third time?)

I'll say this, casting/acting we good to the bitter end. No complaints there. I would anticipate most of the cast are already in new projects. Peter Dinklage could carry all sorts of shows. The guy who plays Davos is amazing. And would I follow Arya in a spin-off? Yeah I would, assuming new writers are involved.

Biggest issues I had:

1) So...is Drogan like human-level intelligent? Are we to infer that he understood why Jon killed Dany, and that he further made the mental leap that Jon was not really "responsible" for Dany's death, but rather Dany's lust for the iron throne had caused her downfall? I mean...is that what we saw? I knew they had to "write Drogan off" (see my comments from last week), but having him flying off after having such a philosophical moment was sort of confusing and weak to me.

2) When did the Dothraki get so...civilized? Two weeks or so after their Queen has been murdered, they are chumming around on the docks like "This ain't no thing". I would have expected plundering, rape, etc., (i.e. that they would have been a continuing problem in Westeros, especially as they appear leaderless)

3) So the unSullied are going to...what? Go to some island and inhabit it? I guess some islands might welcome thousands of former slaves turned murderous butchers (who can't procreate) but the proposition wouldn't seem so appealing to me.

4) BRAN? "Who has had a better story?" Come on Tyrion, Arya has had a better story! Sansa has had a better story! Hell, Brienne and Davos had better stories! Freakin' Podric had a better story.

Things I liked: Sansa claiming the North, Arya doing her own thing, and Tyrion surrounding himself the best surviving characters. Just seeing Brienne, Sam, and Davos at the table tells the viewer that there is going to be some wise stewardship for years to come. And Bronn will keep it interesting.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 07:48:41 AM by Nick_Miller »

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #209 on: May 20, 2019, 07:29:57 AM »
6/10. I am disappointed but it's not like I'm going to petition for a new 8th season. We have real life dragons to deal with.

MVP: Ummm...I guess Tyrion? He pushed Jon to act, and he pushed the council to act. Killing Dany and picking a new ruler were two things that had to happen, and he forced the issue on both. Plus, he's the hand again (for what, the third time?)

I'll say this, casting/acting we good to the bitter end. No complaints there. I would anticipate most of the cast are already in new projects. Peter Dinklage could carry all sorts of shows. The guy who plays Davos is amazing. And would I follow Arya in a spin-off? Yeah I would, assuming new writers are involved.

Biggest issues I had:

1) So...is Drogan like human-level intelligent? Are we to infer that he understood why Jon killed Dany, and that he further made the mental leap that Jon was not really "responsible" for Dany's death, but rather Dany's lust for the iron throne had caused her downfall? I mean...is that what we saw? I knew they had to "write Drogan off" (see my comments from last week), but having him flying off after having such a philosophical moment was sort of confusing and weak to me.

2) When did the Dothraki get so...civilized? Two weeks or so after their Queen has been murdered, they are chumming around on the docks like "This ain't no thing". I would have expected plundering, rape, etc., (i.e. that they would have been a continuing problem in Westeros, especially as they appear leaderless)

3) So the unSullied are going to...what? Go to some island and inhabit it? I guess some islands might welcome thousands of former slaves turned murderous butchers (who can't procreate) but the proposition wouldn't seem so appealing to me.

4) BRAN? "Who has had a better story?" Come on Tyron, Arya has had a better story! Sansa has had a better story! Hell, Brienne and Davos had better stories! Freakin' Podric had a better story.

Things I liked: Sansa claiming the North, Arya doing her own thing, and Tyrion surrounding himself the best surviving characters. Just seeing Brienne, Sam, and Davos at the table tells the viewer that there is going to be some wise stewardship for years to come. And Bronn will keep it interesting.

All your WTFs are my WTFs, too. I spent last week having conversations with Mr. Kris that went: “Well, Dany has to die, but then that opens up a whole shitshow, because now they have a an angry, out of control dragon, and Grey Worm on the rampage, and this huge army of dothraki and unsullied to contend with. Those are huge problems that won’t just go away.”

I guess they just... went away.

Sigh.

Philociraptor

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 921
  • Age: 29
  • Location: DFW, TX
  • Eat. Sleep. Invest. Repeat.
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #210 on: May 20, 2019, 07:54:32 AM »
It feels like the best ending that we could have expected given the writing of the past couple seasons.

Jon Snow turned out to be The Prince That Was Promised after all! He tempered his sword in ice (fighting the White Walkers), killing a lion (helping bring the Lannisters down), and eventually through the heart of his lover (Daenerys). He just never got to become King (unless the wildlings recognize him as King Beyond the Wall).

Bran saying he came south to become king then telling Jon he was exactly where he needed to be made it sound like he was playing the Game of Thrones all along. I was hoping that we'd see him viewing some point the past needed to get to this point, like Ned's beheading or Rheagar running off with Lyanna; this would open up the possibility for an evil Bran/3ER plotting to take over the seven kingdoms. I'd bet the Ironborn and Dorne rebel within a few years, considering he gave the North independence.

I kinda hated how after Daenerys' death it turned into a comedy, especially the line about Tyrion not being mentioned in The Song of Ice and Fire; it was clearly a joke for the show watchers, made absolutely zero sense in the story considering how the War of the Five Kings arguably started with Tyrion's kidnapping.

Overall, I have many thoughts, but definitely look forward to (hopefully) reading how it all ends from GRRM himself.

simonsez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
  • Age: 33
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #211 on: May 20, 2019, 09:04:58 AM »
Overall, I have many thoughts, but definitely look forward to (hopefully) reading how it all ends from GRRM himself.
Yes!  I am very excited to read the next novel.  No idea if the 7th will ever be released by him but generally more is better and the 6th book would be better than nothing.

Weird season but it ended alright.  I don't mind a bit of fan service that has resolution for most storylines as an ending, it wasn't the most exciting episode but I think that's sorta inevitable.  I can't believe the maneuvering the Starks were able to accomplish, though!  They get the king AND get to be independent with their own queen while all the other kingdoms remain united?  Odd Yara was okay with that.

BTW, did I miss something at the beginning where Grey Worm executed that guy?  Jon and Davos are like - alright we're going to go to talk to the queen about this.  Grey Worm seemingly stays behind to further be awful to those other prisoners and then when Jon is walking up steps, Grey Worm is already there at the top?  I get Jon was "dramatically walking" but felt like a scene was missing to explain how Jon got there at the steps after Grey Worm.  Not like this was integral to the show, I just had to do a double-take.

The Drogon resolution was tricky.  If he flames Jon, seems he would likely stay put and continue to wreak havoc.  But must be something about being a dragonrider and/or a Targaryen (or just now that Dany was dead and Drogon changed) that Drogon just felt like retiring to Valyria or wherever and chilling for awhile.

Jon's whole ending though does give rise to many more questions for both the Night's Watch and Bran - but just fun food for thought.  I did think it was beautiful how the new "children of the forest" are returning north and plants are now growing and all that. 

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #212 on: May 20, 2019, 09:24:40 AM »
Who has a better story? Jon.  Fucking Jon. He was murdered and brought back to life, that is infinitely better than being crippled. He was lord commander of the night's watch.  He is the king in the north. He's a fucking legit Targaryen and heir to the iron throne.

Also the north is just independent now?  But not the Iron Islands or Dorne? Yara didn't realize that was an option until Sansa did it.  Once you say aye there are no take backs I guess.

And Tyrion not being mentioned? The man credited with murdering King Jofferey, the man who murdered Tywin Lannister arguably the most powerful man in the world, the man who served as hand to two monarchs is not mentioned?  He did tons of other stuff that I didn't even mention.

I feel very unsatisfied with this entire season.

Lulee

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: NH
  • "We'll jump off that bridge when we come to it."
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #213 on: May 20, 2019, 09:25:56 AM »
For those of us still digesting the finale, here's a funny idea for a GOT spin-off posted today --- https://www.reasonsmysoniscrying.com/.

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #214 on: May 20, 2019, 09:34:33 AM »
Pretty decent ending, thematically, IMO, and much happier for a lot of the characters than I expected.  I had actually never considered Bran becoming king until this very thread, but that works fine thematically, esp with Jon and Arya going outside the kingdom. 

As I commented last week, reconciling things that are thematically satisfying with logical plot doesn't always work, and didn't always work here.  I agree that Bran is liable to be dealing with rebellions within 10 years or so, 'cause that's the way these things roll.  That's likely to happen no matter who is on the throne, though.  I'm not too bothered b/c I'm more interested in themes and characters than plot, but criticisms noted above are certainly valid.

LOVED Drogon melting the iron throne; wasn't expecting that.  But man, those poor dragons. I have felt so crappy for them most of this series, and never more than last night.

Gondolin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 567
  • Location: Northern VA
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #215 on: May 20, 2019, 09:54:15 AM »
Quote
that are thematically satisfying

Honest question, what theme is being satisfied in this finale?

The show HAD themes but I think they got thrown out in S6 with the characters once all the narrative pruning started.



One more for the WTF pile: None of the Southern lords reacted to talk of an army of the dead or the 3ER. Tyrion says “He became the 3ER” and they all nod along as if they’ve been watching the show with the audience from the beginning.

ReadySetMillionaire

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1009
  • Location: The Buckeye State
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #216 on: May 20, 2019, 10:03:12 AM »
What made last night so frustrating was knowing in the back of your mind that the writers just completely botched this on two fronts:

(1) Sorry for repeating this, but the last two seasons should have been ten episodes, no questions asked.

(2) What piled onto this error was that the writers chose cinematic drama (battles and CGI) over storytelling.  Battle of Blackwater Bay, Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards were all less than half an episode, and those are some of the highest ranked episodes of all time. Yet in Season 8, we spent two entire episodes in a six episode season on battles. It just seemed so incredibly unnecessary when there was so many loose ends to tie up.

In Season 7, imagine if we had a couple more episodes to set up the Loot Train Battle -- more accurate movements, more ability to lay out character's motives, perhaps more groundwork for Dany eventually going mad. And then imagine if we had a couple more episodes for the Beyond the Wall action, which would have given more time to set everything up.

In Season 8, imagine if we had two or three episodes leading up to Dany going mad; and then a couple episodes with Dany, John, Tyrian, etc. wrestling with the destruction and future plans, and then a couple episodes to select a new king.

The battles were certainly entertaining, but the greatest scene in Season 8 was Jon and Tyrian talking about what to do moving forward.  THAT is Game of Thrones -- two people talking in a room about their actions that will have consequences far beyond their own footprint. GoT abandoned those scenes for the sake of battle porn.

Seasons 1-6, and especially seasons 3 and 4, are arguably the greatest TV productions in history. They built their own high standards, and then they fell way short of them.

Rimu05

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 223
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #217 on: May 20, 2019, 10:05:56 AM »
Well, that was terrible.

I guess the plan is to leave us with nothing.

By nothing, do you mean nothing in terms of quality of the show?  That's fair, though I'm not as irritated as many people seem to be, given that I thought the author's plotting started going off the rails in book 4, and to pretty much complete shit in book 5. So the show has sometimes been an improvement.

Or did you mean in terms of nothing and no one happy and prosperous at the end?  I feel like it was inevitable from book 3 that this series was not going to end well for any of the main characters. It's just slow-mo emotional torture to get invested in any of them (which, of course, I am).

I will give the show credit for surprising me: the only character I ever was absolutely sure would live through the series was Arya, and on my short list of 'very likely to live', Varys was at the head of the line.  Oops.   Bronn is my other one, so we'll see how that comes out...

I don't watch the show but get the spoilers and watch clips but I really hope the books don't go this way and yes, book 4 left me thinking WTF? However, I felt book 5 redeemed book 4 in that I finally could see where we were going. I will admit though, a few useless characters in both books that took up to much focus yet died. Normally ASOIAF deaths leave me speechless, these just left me thinking. What did this guy do other than sail the sea?

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #218 on: May 20, 2019, 10:06:48 AM »
What made last night so frustrating was knowing in the back of your mind that the writers just completely botched this on two fronts:

(1) Sorry for repeating this, but the last two seasons should have been ten episodes, no questions asked.

(2) What piled onto this error was that the writers chose cinematic drama (battles and CGI) over storytelling.  Battle of Blackwater Bay, Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards were all less than half an episode, and those are some of the highest ranked episodes of all time. Yet in Season 8, we spent two entire episodes in a six episode season on battles. It just seemed so incredibly unnecessary when there was so many loose ends to tie up.

In Season 7, imagine if we had a couple more episodes to set up the Loot Train Battle -- more accurate movements, more ability to lay out character's motives, perhaps more groundwork for Dany eventually going mad. And then imagine if we had a couple more episodes for the Beyond the Wall action, which would have given more time to set everything up.

In Season 8, imagine if we had two or three episodes leading up to Dany going mad; and then a couple episodes with Dany, John, Tyrian, etc. wrestling with the destruction and future plans, and then a couple episodes to select a new king.

The battles were certainly entertaining, but the greatest scene in Season 8 was Jon and Tyrian talking about what to do moving forward.  THAT is Game of Thrones -- two people talking in a room about their actions that will have consequences far beyond their own footprint. GoT abandoned those scenes for the sake of battle porn.

Seasons 1-6, and especially seasons 3 and 4, are arguably the greatest TV productions in history. They built their own high standards, and then they fell way short of them.

I completely agree. This is almost exactly what I've said to Mr. Kris numerous times. With ten episodes in seasons 7 and 8, pretty much all the big problems could have been resolved. (That, and if they had realized back in season 4 or 5 that they needed to prune narrative threads that were not going to end up going anywhere.)

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #219 on: May 20, 2019, 10:34:47 AM »
Bran: I don't want.
Also Bran: Why do you think I'm here?

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #220 on: May 20, 2019, 11:03:56 AM »
Quote
that are thematically satisfying

Honest question, what theme is being satisfied in this finale?

The show HAD themes but I think they got thrown out in S6 with the characters once all the narrative pruning started.



One more for the WTF pile: None of the Southern lords reacted to talk of an army of the dead or the 3ER. Tyrion says “He became the 3ER” and they all nod along as if they’ve been watching the show with the audience from the beginning.

Well, I'm sure not all the themes/character arcs hang together, but I feel like most of the main characters' do/did (some issues with Jamie, as I discussed earlier).  Keep in mind it's been years since I read any of the books, though, so it's certainly open to debate.

Jon started out feeling like an outsider from his family, then found a place north of the wall, then got drawn into politics against his will causing multiple bad outcomes (he'd be a just king, but probably make bad practical decisions as a ruler of Westeros b/c he always overestimates peoples' moral character), then discovered he actually IS an outsider within his family (in terms of not actually being sibling) and ended by avoiding politics and going back north of the wall. 

Arya started out an adventurer rebelling against her place in society/role of daughter of a noble house, had a long character arc of struggling against being consumed by vengeance and sociopathy, and ended being a more mature adventurer still unwilling to take on a traditional role by marrying or being involved in the politics of her noble house. 

Sansa started out immature, self involved, and consumed by romantic fantasies about the 'trappings' of being a daughter of a noble house, had a character arc that systematically shredded those notions and taught her about practical, cold-blooded politics. She ended up very suited to ruling by skill set and cunning (in any capacity, but certainly in the north), but I think questions remain about her mental state (probably that would be clear in the hypothetical books).  Sansa and Dany had somewhat parallel character arcs, with Sansa appearing to retain sanity and learn practical diplomatic realpolitik from her experiences, while Dany went the other way, going insane and developing a god complex. 

Dany - Her arc was strongly foreshadowed throughout the books and show as a possibility.  I always assumed that either Dany or Sansa (but not both) would go insane or turn 'villainous' at the end b/c of their similar arcs.

Cersei started out sociopathically self-involved, emotionally isolated except for Jamie, and viewing Jamie as an extension of herself. She was striving first for premiere place with her father, then premiere place for her children, and then finally for premiere place for herself.  As Jamie's character arc took him to a place of more individual identity and psychological separation from her, she lost her last remnant of human connection (symbolically, the last arguably good part of herself), and became fully self-destructive, as well as villainous. The other crucial part of her character was that, like Tyrion, she always thought she was a little smarter than she actually was, and her final plan for conquering Westeros wasn't as smart as she thought it was.  And she died having not learned very much at all, but in the arms of her only remaining human connection/narcissistic self-projection (Jamie).

Tyrion started cynical about politics and rulers, viewed with suspicion by others, thinking he was more clever than he sometimes was, and striving for respect from his family and other power brokers by attempting to play the political game at a high level. As he periodically gained and lost power through the story, his original cynical view of politics was mostly proven correct, and he learned he wasn't as clever at politics or judging character as he thought.  In the end, with his family finally out of the picture  and most of the kingdom ignorant of both his good and bad efforts/decisions on their behalf, he was wise enough to try to opt out of politics altogether, but (in accordance with his cynical view of things) was ordered back in (ironically, by the man he argued be put on the throne). Pretty fitting.

Bran was the first main character we ever met in the books IIRC (so it kind of makes sense that he's being set up to be the final 'hero' figure), and his viewpoint throughout has been of the observer and story-keeper and someone who sees many possibilities in the future, not just those pertaining to his own good. His early injury stripped him of his traditional power-broker position as son of a noble house. He seems to have his father's sense of moral justice and goodness, without his father's naivete about human nature (and possibly a better judgement about who makes good advisors). His character arc did not include as much direct trauma as most of the other main characters who could have (thematically speaking) reasonably ended up ruling, which means he's probably more mentally stable (ironic, right?) than the other likely rulers. He also seems to be one of the few characters that truly believes in the possibility of the future being truly new and good, and not just a bloody repeat of the past.  It seems fitting thematically that since the past was full of rulers taking and keeping the throne by bloody strife, that the series ends with the one person on it who can't fight (for himself) and has no stake in elevating any particular part of the kingdom above any other part. With Sansa ruling in the North, and no offspring to worry about, Bran is essentially free of obligation to any person, family, or house and can instead be obligated to the greater good.

Will it work out? My cynical side says 'no'.  But thematically, it's pretty satisfying.

Btw, IMO, it also would have been thematically satisfying to have 1) Jon and Dany married and co-ruling like Targaryeans of old, with Sansa going slowly power mad and looming as the main threat to future peace; 2) Dany on the throne, with the implication of endless war and misery on the horizon, and most of the other characters dead...probably by her hand; 3) Jon on the throne with plenty of support and the kingdom temporarily stable, but completely traumatized and miserable, with the implication that he's going to totally misjudge someone's character and get stabbed in the back (again). I've never been able to think of another ending that would be as satisfying as any of these four, but I'm happy to hear others' ideas.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 11:10:01 AM by wenchsenior »

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #221 on: May 20, 2019, 11:48:21 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRhObOsfL8&feature=youtu.be

Season 7 Episode 3, skip to 1:06 for the quote

Bran:  I can never be lord of winterfell.  I can never be lord of anything.  I'm the three eyed raven. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moM00oXhmes

Season 8 Episode 6, skip to 2:46:

Tyrion: If we choose you, will you wear the crown?...

Bran: Why do you think I came all this way?

WHAT. THE. FUCK?  This makes no sense.  He can't be lord of anything, except he can be lord of the seven six kingdoms!?






v8rx7guy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1238
  • Location: Bellingham, WA
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #222 on: May 20, 2019, 12:01:02 PM »
I was not as disappointed with the first 5 episodes as many of you all here plus the rest of the internet seemed to be.  But this final episode really opened my eyes to how terrible the season really was.

Don't forget to cancel your HBO Now subscription, if you subscribed the day of the season opener, you'll be billed again tomorrow for another month.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #223 on: May 20, 2019, 12:03:15 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRhObOsfL8&feature=youtu.be

Season 7 Episode 3, skip to 1:06 for the quote

Bran:  I can never be lord of winterfell.  I can never be lord of anything.  I'm the three eyed raven. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moM00oXhmes

Season 8 Episode 6, skip to 2:46:

Tyrion: If we choose you, will you wear the crown?...

Bran: Why do you think I came all this way?

WHAT. THE. FUCK?  This makes no sense.  He can't be lord of anything, except he can be lord of the seven six kingdoms!?

I guess? I can see the logic? He can't be lord of Winterfell because he's no longer a Stark of Winterfell.

But the Three Eyed Raven can be king. ??? And it was his destiny? IDK.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #224 on: May 20, 2019, 12:05:03 PM »
I was not as disappointed with the first 5 episodes as many of you all here plus the rest of the internet seemed to be.  But this final episode really opened my eyes to how terrible the season really was.

Don't forget to cancel your HBO Now subscription, if you subscribed the day of the season opener, you'll be billed again tomorrow for another month.

Yea I over looked a lot of garbage from Season 7 and was still a fan boy and so hyped for season 8.  It retrospect the warning signs were there, and I was just in denial.   But season 8 really let me down.


frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #225 on: May 20, 2019, 12:06:55 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRhObOsfL8&feature=youtu.be

Season 7 Episode 3, skip to 1:06 for the quote

Bran:  I can never be lord of winterfell.  I can never be lord of anything.  I'm the three eyed raven. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moM00oXhmes

Season 8 Episode 6, skip to 2:46:

Tyrion: If we choose you, will you wear the crown?...

Bran: Why do you think I came all this way?

WHAT. THE. FUCK?  This makes no sense.  He can't be lord of anything, except he can be lord of the seven six kingdoms!?

I guess? I can see the logic? He can't be lord of Winterfell because he's no longer a Stark of Winterfell.

But the Three Eyed Raven can be king. ??? And it was his destiny? IDK.

He said he can't be lord of anything.  His title is literally: Bran the Broken, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Six Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #226 on: May 20, 2019, 12:09:52 PM »
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see? 

:not snark, truly curious:

Cool Friend

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 295
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #227 on: May 20, 2019, 12:11:14 PM »
Man I'm just grateful we got some quality shots of Tyrion arranging chairs.

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #228 on: May 20, 2019, 12:15:40 PM »
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see? 

:not snark, truly curious:

Honestly, for me, it would have been okay if everything ended up in the exact same spot... if it hadn't been so damn rushed. Instead of a story, it started to feel like the showrunners just crossing plot items off their to-do list.

never give up

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1722
  • Location: UK
  • Not spending like there is tomorrow
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #229 on: May 20, 2019, 12:23:25 PM »
Do you think some of the disappointment is actually masked by the fact that people are actually sad it’s over? Whenever I have been fully immersed into anything fictional I don’t think I’ve ever had an ending that has satisfied me. Even with something like sports, and my team has been successful and won a trophy, within an hour of winning, I’m kind of thinking, when is the next game?

Concluding something is fine but actually I enjoy the journey and not knowing what a fictional ending will be or whether my team will win or not, more than the actual ending/result.

There is no doubt the pacing of the last two series was miles off. There is no doubt that there were so many characters and plot lines developed that it became difficult to control them all. However it was beautifully shot, with some absolutely fantastic characters and one liners, and I have really enjoyed watching these last few years.

I am sad it’s over, but I do not believe any ending would have satisfied me. I preferred it when all the pieces were in play and there were more questions to ask than had been answered.

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #230 on: May 20, 2019, 12:26:34 PM »
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see? 

:not snark, truly curious:

Honestly, for me, it would have been okay if everything ended up in the exact same spot... if it hadn't been so damn rushed. Instead of a story, it started to feel like the showrunners just crossing plot items off their to-do list.

I agree with that, for sure.

bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3655
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #231 on: May 20, 2019, 12:28:19 PM »
Man I'm just grateful we got some quality shots of Tyrion arranging chairs.

It reminds me of the Hobbit Part I where the adventurers spent an hour deciding what to pack.

Johnez

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
  • Location: Southern California
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #232 on: May 20, 2019, 12:50:32 PM »
For those of us still digesting the finale, here's a funny idea for a GOT spin-off posted today --- https://www.reasonsmysoniscrying.com/.

Thank you for this site!

Rimu05

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 223
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #233 on: May 20, 2019, 01:00:12 PM »
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see? 

:not snark, truly curious:

I must ask this of show watchers too. With no source material to work with, it would have been strange if the show was still top quality. The writers couldn't possibly have looked into GRRM's head to know what to do and even if he gave them some expectation as to where the show should head, it's completely different to the damn near 900 page book of details.

I still think the show poorly handled the Night King. If I was a watcher I would have raged for a week.

v8rx7guy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1238
  • Location: Bellingham, WA
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #234 on: May 20, 2019, 01:26:41 PM »
As others have said, felt very rushed.  To me it was also somewhat obvious where the books left off and the producers came up with their own ending.  Obviously it was based on overarching themes that GRRM passed along to them, but it was clear that the planning was rushed and not well thought out.  I also felt that major plots and setups were never used even though it felt clear that they should be more significant.  Arya's face changing ability and the story of Bran just seemed so pointless (even though he did end up being king).

Psychstache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #235 on: May 20, 2019, 01:36:09 PM »
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see? 

:not snark, truly curious:

Prior to the start of this season, I envisioned a protracted conflict with the Army of the Undead. We make plans to halt the army, but have limited success. Maybe a couple of the NK's generals are off'ed and portions of the undead army are cut down to keep it manageable, but the living keep getting outmanuevered and keep falling back to the south, losing some folks along the way as we go. We have a final stand in King's Landing where all the living put there petty political squabbles aside for the good of humanity, unite together and....fall short and all die. The final shot of the season is the Night King walking through the Red Keep and coming to sit on the Iron Throne with our now blue eyed heroes standing around in his thrall. Fin.

Obviously nothing like that was ever going to happen, so I'll take Kris's answer: The ending was mostly fine, we just need more time to flesh out the arcs that get them there so we don't feel rushed.

Though I really dislike Bran and don't really care to see him King, but again I'm sure we could flesh that out more if S7 and 8 are full seasons.

doggyfizzle

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 351
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #236 on: May 20, 2019, 02:20:37 PM »
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see? 

:not snark, truly curious:

1) As others have said, the conflict between the living/Night King should have been drawn out, maybe over an entire season.  I mean a gigantic wall was built to keep the undead out a thousand years ago, all the Wildlings were fleeing south as this guy was gathering his army and then...poof...he's gone in a single episode.  It would have been great to even have a bit of dialog between him and Jon Snow or Bran.
2) No resolution with the Iron Bank, Dorne, Iron Islands, Mereen, etc.
3) I would have liked to see Nymeria (arya's direwolf) come back.  From what I remember in the books, she's out messing sh*t up in the Riverlands and it would have been cool to see her reunited with Arya.  I was hoping the direwolves would have had a little bit more "constant" presence in the show, but they took a back seat as the shift to CGI dragon battles to precedence.

The character development and scheming of the first 6 seasons was what made the show great for me, and this season seemed to disregard too much of what happened early on and just mis-mashed everything together (oh hello Edmure Tully and Robin Arryn) because so much was spent on CGI.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 02:26:40 PM by doggyfizzle »

Lulee

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: NH
  • "We'll jump off that bridge when we come to it."
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #237 on: May 20, 2019, 03:14:45 PM »
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological."  The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own.  Cool read.

Noodle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1146
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #238 on: May 20, 2019, 07:33:16 PM »
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see? 

:not snark, truly curious:

Well, during the Battle of Winterfell, I would have liked to be able to see anything!

Actually, I didn't hate the season. I really liked the second episode, when they're all at Winterfell waiting for the army of the Night King to arrive. The Battle of Winterfell disappointed me, because I have always found their battle scenes to be incredibly compelling (even though in most movies I don't care for them), and while the battle against the Night King had spectacular moments (that scene where the Dothraki ride out with flaming swords and the all the lights just...go out), I didn't think the directors did as good a job creating a narrative throughline. I didn't even mind that the show killed off Daenarys, but the show skipped way too many steps between strong-willed ruler and genocide.

The one minor hope that didn't go anywhere was that I always thought Tyrion and Sansa would make a good pair (other than the age difference) if they went back to being married. I thought maybe they were hinting around during the scenes in the crypt, but it didn't go anywhere.

itchyfeet

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 757
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #239 on: May 20, 2019, 08:06:45 PM »
Tyrion picks a zombie to rule Westeros so that it is in fact Tyrion who has the true power. Well played Tyrion...
..... although after 8 seasons of bemoaning people calling you the imp, maybe Tyrion could have been a bit empathetic and not called a Bran broken. I am sure Bran would rather be called Bran the Brilliant.

What was the whole point of Jon being the true heir to the throne, and of us watching 8 seasons of us to being told what a great ruler he was? I suppose the conclusion is that Sansa and Tyrion were the best at playing the game of thrones and they got him shipped off to the Wall where he can’t be a threat to their power games.

Maybe they should have had a scene where Tyrion and Sansa plotted together to end up with Tyrion as the true power of Kings Landing and Sansa as the Queen of the North.it would have been better than Bran simply knowing all along he’d be King of nothing and allowing millions to die whilst he sat under the shade of an old tree day dreaming.

I thought Brienne made an oath to serve Sansa. Another oath breaker in the Kings guard.

Poor Greyworm. I guess he’ll have to find solace at the bottom of a bottle.


StarBright

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1268
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #240 on: May 20, 2019, 08:59:01 PM »
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological."  The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own.  Cool read.

I thought it was GREAT read! Thanks for sharing that.

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2102
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #241 on: May 20, 2019, 10:01:01 PM »
So for those of you that have hated this season...what specifically were you wanting to see/expecting to see? 

:not snark, truly curious:

Well, during the Battle of Winterfell, I would have liked to be able to see anything!

Actually, I didn't hate the season. I really liked the second episode, when they're all at Winterfell waiting for the army of the Night King to arrive. The Battle of Winterfell disappointed me, because I have always found their battle scenes to be incredibly compelling (even though in most movies I don't care for them), and while the battle against the Night King had spectacular moments (that scene where the Dothraki ride out with flaming swords and the all the lights just...go out), I didn't think the directors did as good a job creating a narrative throughline. I didn't even mind that the show killed off Daenarys, but the show skipped way too many steps between strong-willed ruler and genocide.

The one minor hope that didn't go anywhere was that I always thought Tyrion and Sansa would make a good pair (other than the age difference) if they went back to being married. I thought maybe they were hinting around during the scenes in the crypt, but it didn't go anywhere.

DH was also rooting for Sansa/Tyrion the entire show, so he was also kind of bummed out.

Re the battle at Winterfell, I had no idea until the week afterward how many people literally could not see it well enough to even know what characters they were watching, and thus couldn't even follow the action. That is incredible, and certainly would have affected our enjoyment if it had been the case at our house. I'd have been pissed!   But we didn't have any trouble like that.  We just have a regular tv (more than 10 years old) and regular subscription HBO, and while a couple scenes (mainly some aerial stuff of ravens flying and the dragons flying through ash, smoke, and snow) were dark and murky and a little pixelated b/c of all the dark shades layered on each other, all the rest of the episode was perfectly viewable and we had no trouble identifying who was fighting and/or dying in any given scene. And we both assumed those aerial shots were supposed to be very difficult to see and disorienting (I think Drogon and Jon's dragon almost collided at one point b/c of lack of visibility...)   

I agree with criticism in this thread that the battle itself wasn't very logical or well-strategized. 


GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13346
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #242 on: May 21, 2019, 06:48:40 AM »
I had no idea until the week afterward how many people literally could not see it well enough to even know what characters they were watching, and thus couldn't even follow the action.

Makes you realize how few people understand what the basic brightness and contrast controls on their televisions do.  We were watching the episode and it was hard to see what was going on, so I paused it and fiddled with the controls for a second until it was perfectly watchable.  This isn't a new invention.  I remember having to do it in a particularly dark scene in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III.  :P

ReadySetMillionaire

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1009
  • Location: The Buckeye State
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #243 on: May 21, 2019, 07:01:56 AM »
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological."  The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own.  Cool read.

This is the best observation I've read about the show.

Thanks for sharing.

Lulee

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: NH
  • "We'll jump off that bridge when we come to it."
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #244 on: May 21, 2019, 08:41:23 AM »
Scientific American had a really cool article (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/) that posits that the reason so many of us were frustrated these last few seasons: "It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological."  The writer feels that "the appeal of a show that routinely kills major characters signals a different kind of storytelling" and that it was a kind of storytelling Benioff and Weiss simply couldn't manage to do on their own.  Cool read.

This is the best observation I've read about the show.

Thanks for sharing.

I'm glad you and StarBright enjoyed it too.  I appreciated having an explanation of how it was not just a style change between writers but an entirely different manner of storytelling that changed the show to something less than it was.   Benioff, Weiss & Co. didn't service their characters well lately but even if they had done better, it seemed like something beyond that & the rushed pacing that was I dunno ... dimming ... the compellingness (is that a word?) of the series.  I look at GRRM's writing with a whole new appreciation than I had until now.

talltexan

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2394
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #245 on: May 21, 2019, 09:16:00 AM »
New fan theory:

3-eyed raven has basically assumed Bran's consciousness and body (Bran repeatedly insisting he "isn't Bran"). Bran is basically a parasitic host that has tricked everyone into installing it as King. Oh, and it's immortal and can warg anything or anyone. So no worries about whether he can have an heir.

Bran basically provided enough information for the Targaeryans to turn on each other. And Sansa is the only one who figured it out, hence her secession.

FIRE Artist

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 563
  • Location: YEG
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #246 on: May 21, 2019, 09:30:48 AM »
2) No resolution with the Iron Bank

I wondered about that one, don’t know the inheritance rules of Westeros, wondering if Tyrion now owns the Lannister debt and has to pay for Cersei’s army. Casterly Rock is supposedly worthless and Highgarden was given to Bronn.

simonsez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
  • Age: 33
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #247 on: May 21, 2019, 10:18:40 AM »
2) No resolution with the Iron Bank

I wondered about that one, don’t know the inheritance rules of Westeros, wondering if Tyrion now owns the Lannister debt and has to pay for Cersei’s army. Casterly Rock is supposedly worthless and Highgarden was given to Bronn.
Should be fine as long as the Golden Company didn't have life insurance.  Peter/Paul, all that.

Psychstache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #248 on: May 21, 2019, 10:20:09 AM »
2) No resolution with the Iron Bank

I wondered about that one, don’t know the inheritance rules of Westeros, wondering if Tyrion now owns the Lannister debt and has to pay for Cersei’s army. Casterly Rock is supposedly worthless and Highgarden was given to Bronn.

Sure hope they have a re-insurer, because this investment did not pan out. Some analyst is due for some King's Justice.

Telecaster

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1779
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Game of Thrones is back!!
« Reply #249 on: May 21, 2019, 02:03:42 PM »
I had no idea until the week afterward how many people literally could not see it well enough to even know what characters they were watching, and thus couldn't even follow the action.

Makes you realize how few people understand what the basic brightness and contrast controls on their televisions do.  We were watching the episode and it was hard to see what was going on, so I paused it and fiddled with the controls for a second until it was perfectly watchable.  This isn't a new invention.  I remember having to do it in a particularly dark scene in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III.  :P

If everyone has to fiddle with the brightness and contrast to make it watchable, it is too dark.