Author Topic: Firearms in the home  (Read 437072 times)

Alim Nassor

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2600 on: June 02, 2017, 04:07:49 AM »
We keep guns in our house for a variety of reasons.  Home protection, self defense, defense of liberty, hunting, and maybe most of all, because they are fun as shit to shoot.   My 2 grown sons and I went hog hunting the other day, all armed with AR-15's.  We killed 7 for sure and probably several more we couldn't track down.   Most fun I've had in a while.  When I go by myself, my favorite hog gun is my S&W MP15-22.    .22 Long Rifle with a suppressor shooting subsonic round nose bullets.  If I limit my shots to less than 100 yards, a couple put between the eye and ear, drops them in their tracks.

scottish

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2601 on: June 02, 2017, 05:26:56 PM »
Defense of liberty?    Is this where you have a duty to overthrow an oppressive government?  (He asks, apropos of nothing whatsoever!)

Are these hogs for eatin' or are they just pests?

Alim Nassor

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2602 on: June 02, 2017, 05:34:39 PM »
Defense of liberty?    Is this where you have a duty to overthrow an oppressive government?  (He asks, apropos of nothing whatsoever!)

That's correct.

Are these hogs for eatin' or are they just pests?

They destroy our crops and pasture land.  They are extremely destructive to native wildlife.  90% of the time I leave em lay where they drop.  Buzzards gotta eat too.

fdhs_runner

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2603 on: June 04, 2017, 06:42:43 AM »
Posted a couple times upthread, but didn't answer the OP.

1.   Why don't you move to a less dangerous area?    It can't be much fun, being constantly on edge that someone is going to invade your house or assault you on the street.

I'm actually not on edge about that. Statistically I'm far more likely to get hit by a drunk, careless, and/or distracted driver (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-cops-killers-victims-20160107-story.html). I also bike to work, even though apparently I'm statistically more likely than a driver to get killed per mile traveled. However I live 1.5 miles from work while many co-workers commute in from 20 + miles away.

2.  Do you regularly practice with your firearm?   (I used to shoot cans with a .22 when I was a kid, but that's about the limit of my experience.   When I eventually FIRE, I'd like to try some practical shooting if I can find a good range.   But I don't have time for another hobby right now.)

Yes, although that might not matter quite as much as you'd think (https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Victim-Resistance-and-Offender-Weapon-Effects-in-Robbery.pdf).

3.  If you have children or a spouse, how have you trained them to stay out of the way if there's an incident?  i.e. so they don't get shot?

I've trained them not to open the door.

4.  How to you plan to deal with the first responders after an incident?    Will the police arrest you?   Do you have a lawyer ready to call on your phone?  Or does your jurisdiction take the view that you're allowed to shoot in your home, so you don't expect to have issues with the authorities?

For the record, we don't have any firearms in the house.   In fact, DW can't stand them, so we're not likely to anytime soon.

The same way I did after the fatal car wreck I was right behind? Honestly I put more thought into stuff like this http://bicyclesafe.com/#rightcross. After all, what's the alternative? Hope that a violent criminal who breaks into an occupied residence will be nice?

BTW, I'm surprised you didn't ask about safes. In spite of the stats (https://www.cdc.gov/safechild/pdf/cdc-childhoodinjury.pdf, page 29) the kids go to the pool with us, go on walks with us, go places in the car, and have bikes. The guns stay in the safe.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 07:17:13 AM by fdhs_runner »

Julard

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2604 on: June 05, 2017, 02:39:27 AM »
I'm curious (as an Australian) - when gun-owning Americans travel overseas, do you feel vulnerable without your guns?  Or okay because you're in countries where gun ownership is uncommon, so there's less sense of danger from other gun owners?

Shane

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2605 on: June 05, 2017, 04:43:08 AM »
Not sure, but there may not be a whole lot of overlap between Americans who regularly carry guns around with them in the US and Americans who regularly travel outside of the US...

jlcnuke

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2606 on: June 05, 2017, 12:26:35 PM »
I'm curious (as an Australian) - when gun-owning Americans travel overseas, do you feel vulnerable without your guns?  Or okay because you're in countries where gun ownership is uncommon, so there's less sense of danger from other gun owners?

Neither of the above. I don't feel vulnerable when I don't have a gun on me unless I get into a situation/area where I feel it might be needed (accidentally end up in a bad part of town etc), regardless if I'm in the US or abroad. My preference to have a firearm available to me is similar to my preference to maintain adequate amounts of insurance (life/auto/home/umbrella/etc) - because I'd rather have it on the off-chance I need it than to need it and not have it. That said, I wasn't constantly worried when I didn't have an umbrella insurance policy (despite the tragic outcomes that are possible without such insurance) and I'm not constantly worried if I don't have access to a firearm since, like my chances of needing insurance to prevent a catastrophic financially tragedy, the odds that I'll ever need it are exceptionally low.

Statistically speaking, gun ownership rates have had very little correlation with violent crime statistics (for instance, in the 15 years after Australia "banned" guns effectively their overall violent crime rates have remained relatively steady despite the weapons of choice etc varying for violent crimes). There are places I'll avoid going because of their crime rates, government stability, etc (including places in the US and abroad); but for places I'll visit I feel no less or more "sense of danger" because of changes in gun laws from here to there.

Alim Nassor

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2607 on: June 05, 2017, 04:51:06 PM »
Not sure, but there may not be a whole lot of overlap between Americans who regularly carry guns around with them in the US and Americans who regularly travel outside of the US...


LOL.  Really?   What would make you think that?   Some kind of idea you have that gun owners are backward, unworldly hicks?  I know that's the general thinking by most of the American left.

About the only thing I have more of than guns is stamps in my passport. 

JLee

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2608 on: June 05, 2017, 07:01:00 PM »
I'm curious (as an Australian) - when gun-owning Americans travel overseas, do you feel vulnerable without your guns? Or okay because you're in countries where gun ownership is uncommon, so there's less sense of danger from other gun owners?

I don't/didn't carry a gun because I feel/felt "a sense of danger." Actually I don't at all anymore because it's effectively impossible to carry in my state.

Fun fact - the last time I went shooting, I was outside of the US. The last gun show I went to wasn't in the US, either.

For someone who's carried a gun for years, both at work and off work, not having one feels kinda like driving a car without a seatbelt on. Something feels off. After a few years, I've adjusted to where it feels normal now.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 07:05:54 PM by JLee »

Fishindude

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2609 on: June 06, 2017, 06:42:05 AM »
I'm an avid gun owner, shooter, hunter and have a whole lot of guns, a concealed carry permit, etc.   My home state is very nonrestrictive and it's pretty easy to get a carry permit.
Having said all of that, I also have to say that it really creeps me out the way some of these Rambo wannabe's open carry in public places like stores and restaurants.  It's almost like they are advertising, that they are looking for an opportunity to get into a situation with their firearm. 

With the exception of law enforcement, if you're going to carry, carry concealed.  On the rare occasion you would actually ever need your gun, concealed carry will give you the element of surprise advantage.

ooeei

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2610 on: June 06, 2017, 07:57:09 AM »
I'm curious (as an Australian) - when gun-owning Americans travel overseas, do you feel vulnerable without your guns?

No.

Quote
Or okay because you're in countries where gun ownership is uncommon, so there's less sense of danger from other gun owners?

A bit of a loaded question there, don't you think? 

I feel okay in other countries without guns for the same reason I feel okay in areas of the US I travel to without guns, because there is virtually no chance I'll need them.  I have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen at home, but I wouldn't feel vulnerable if I travelled somewhere to an Air BNB and they didn't have one. 

The fact that there are less legal gun owners in those other countries doesn't really put me at ease, as there are a hell of a lot of ways to kill or threaten people that don't involve guns.   If I were a woman there are certainly places in the world I'd avoid due to being restricted in how I protect myself, but as a relatively young in shape male I'm not exactly a prime target.

Shane

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2611 on: June 06, 2017, 11:16:32 AM »
Not sure, but there may not be a whole lot of overlap between Americans who regularly carry guns around with them in the US and Americans who regularly travel outside of the US...


LOL.  Really?   What would make you think that?   Some kind of idea you have that gun owners are backward, unworldly hicks?  I know that's the general thinking by most of the American left.

About the only thing I have more of than guns is stamps in my passport.

Alim, sorry, if you took my comment as an insult. It wasn't meant to be. The fact that you own guns and also happen to like international travel doesn't really disprove my claim, though.

Less than half of Americans even hold a valid passport.

Not certain, but my guess is people living in blue states along both coasts of the U.S. probably tend to travel outside of the country more often than folks who live in the middle. The top ten states for gun ownership are Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, South Dakota, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, Idaho, Mississippi and North Dakota. Maybe I'm stereotyping, but those states don't strike me as being very likely to have high percentages of people interested in world travel.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 11:28:54 AM by Shane »

Gin1984

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2612 on: June 06, 2017, 11:23:40 AM »
Not sure, but there may not be a whole lot of overlap between Americans who regularly carry guns around with them in the US and Americans who regularly travel outside of the US...


LOL.  Really?   What would make you think that?   Some kind of idea you have that gun owners are backward, unworldly hicks?  I know that's the general thinking by most of the American left.

About the only thing I have more of than guns is stamps in my passport.

Alim, sorry, if you took my comment as an insult. It wasn't meant to be. The fact that you own guns and also happen to like international travel doesn't really disprove my claim, though.

Less than half of Americans even hold a valid passport.

Not certain, but my guess is people living in blue states along both coasts of the U.S. probably tend to travel outside of the country more often than folks who live in the middle. The top ten states for gun ownership are Alaska, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, Montana, Oklahoma, Wyoming, New Mexico and Tennessee. Maybe I'm stereotyping, but those states don't strike me as having a high percentage of people who are interested in world travel.

What do you think?
New Mexico I could see having a decent amount of travelers being so close to the Mexican border.

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Kris

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2613 on: June 06, 2017, 11:29:02 AM »
Not sure, but there may not be a whole lot of overlap between Americans who regularly carry guns around with them in the US and Americans who regularly travel outside of the US...


LOL.  Really?   What would make you think that?   Some kind of idea you have that gun owners are backward, unworldly hicks?  I know that's the general thinking by most of the American left.

About the only thing I have more of than guns is stamps in my passport.

Alim, sorry, if you took my comment as an insult. It wasn't meant to be. The fact that you own guns and also happen to like international travel doesn't really disprove my claim, though.

Less than half of Americans even hold a valid passport.

Not certain, but my guess is people living in blue states along both coasts of the U.S. probably tend to travel outside of the country more often than folks who live in the middle. The top ten states for gun ownership are Alaska, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, Montana, Oklahoma, Wyoming, New Mexico and Tennessee. Maybe I'm stereotyping, but those states don't strike me as having a high percentage of people who are interested in world travel.

What do you think?

There is indeed a correlation. Of those states, less than one in five residents of Mississippi are passport holders, the lowest in the nation. and just one in four residents of Alabama and Arkansas. The rest of them are also among the lowest in the nation. Only Montana, Wyoming, and Alaska have rates of passport ownership above 40%. Alaska is the only one above 60% (there are probably specific reasons why Alaska might be an outlier due to its location). 

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/03/americas-great-passport-divide/72399/
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Shane

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2614 on: June 06, 2017, 11:39:02 AM »
Sorry, after posting, realized I'd mistakenly copied down the top ten states for gun deaths. Went back and edited my comment to reflect the actual top ten states for gun ownership, which I got from this source:

The top ten states for gun ownership are Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, South Dakota, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, Idaho, Mississippi and North Dakota.

Maybe people from North Dakota go to Canada a lot? :)

Kris

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2615 on: June 06, 2017, 12:04:00 PM »
Sorry, after posting, realized I'd mistakenly copied down the top ten states for gun deaths. Went back and edited my comment to reflect the actual top ten states for gun ownership, which I got from this source:

The top ten states for gun ownership are Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, South Dakota, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, Idaho, Mississippi and North Dakota.

Maybe people from North Dakota go to Canada a lot? :)

Huh. Yeah, similar correlation -- with the addition of North Dakota in the list of states with passport ownership above 40% but less than 50%.
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Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2616 on: June 06, 2017, 12:05:58 PM »
Sorry, after posting, realized I'd mistakenly copied down the top ten states for gun deaths. Went back and edited my comment to reflect the actual top ten states for gun ownership, which I got from this source:

The top ten states for gun ownership are Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, South Dakota, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, Idaho, Mississippi and North Dakota.

Maybe people from North Dakota go to Canada a lot? :)

How many of those states have international airports?

I don't actually know, but...
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Car Jack

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2617 on: June 06, 2017, 12:13:21 PM »
I feel ultra safe in my home.  I have a gun safe but no guns.  We keep medications in it.  Someone breaks in....I'm loading up an insulin needle and jabbing the intruder. 

Kris

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2618 on: June 06, 2017, 01:56:18 PM »
Sorry, after posting, realized I'd mistakenly copied down the top ten states for gun deaths. Went back and edited my comment to reflect the actual top ten states for gun ownership, which I got from this source:

The top ten states for gun ownership are Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, South Dakota, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, Idaho, Mississippi and North Dakota.

Maybe people from North Dakota go to Canada a lot? :)

How many of those states have international airports?

I don't actually know, but...

All of them.
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Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2619 on: June 06, 2017, 03:46:44 PM »
Sorry, after posting, realized I'd mistakenly copied down the top ten states for gun deaths. Went back and edited my comment to reflect the actual top ten states for gun ownership, which I got from this source:

The top ten states for gun ownership are Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, South Dakota, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, Idaho, Mississippi and North Dakota.

Maybe people from North Dakota go to Canada a lot? :)

How many of those states have international airports?

I don't actually know, but...

All of them.

You sure about that?  At a glance, doesn't appear ID, SD, or AR do.
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Kris

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2620 on: June 06, 2017, 03:53:46 PM »
Sorry, after posting, realized I'd mistakenly copied down the top ten states for gun deaths. Went back and edited my comment to reflect the actual top ten states for gun ownership, which I got from this source:

The top ten states for gun ownership are Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, South Dakota, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, Idaho, Mississippi and North Dakota.

Maybe people from North Dakota go to Canada a lot? :)

How many of those states have international airports?

I don't actually know, but...

All of them.

You sure about that?  At a glance, doesn't appear ID, SD, or AR do.


It doesn't take much to make an international airport. There are airports that do not even have ANY scheduled passenger flights that are designated as international, purely due to presence of customs services.

That said, you're right. SD and AR don't have that. ID does, in Boise (BOI).
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cheapass

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2621 on: June 06, 2017, 04:22:48 PM »
I feel ultra safe in my home.  I have a gun safe but no guns.

I felt ultra safe in my car until I got into an accident. Man, I sure was glad I was wearing my seat belt just in case!
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Julard

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2622 on: June 07, 2017, 03:19:27 AM »
Quote
A bit of a loaded question there, don't you think?
It wasn't meant to be, I'm just passingly curious about cultural differences and what they're based on. 53 pages of debate (which I haven't read) over something that's not an issue where I'm from.  I've never known anyone who owned a handgun or expressed an interest in having one.  I do know a couple of people with shotguns, but that's associated with farm management and I was only looking at the subject line re guns in the home.

KBecks

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2623 on: June 07, 2017, 06:28:00 AM »
Not sure, but there may not be a whole lot of overlap between Americans who regularly carry guns around with them in the US and Americans who regularly travel outside of the US...

Most Americans don't travel outside the US, and particularly not regularly.  If you're talking regularly, then you're going to be talking about businesspeople or wealthier travelers.   The US is so big that its possible to do a lot of great travel within our borders.   My family has been to Florida, San Diego, Washington DC, Las Vegas and the Grand Canyon in recent years, all really nice trips.   There are many more places in the US that I'd like to see, too.   I would love to go to Italy, but when we considered it, we ended up going to San Francisco and Napa Valley instead.  Maybe someday we'll get to Europe but it's not critical that we get there.

KBecks

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2624 on: June 07, 2017, 06:29:44 AM »
For states without an international airport, you'd just take a two-leg flight to another airport and then get on your international flight in New York or Detroit or California, etc.

ooeei

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2625 on: June 07, 2017, 08:01:51 AM »
Quote
A bit of a loaded question there, don't you think?
It wasn't meant to be, I'm just passingly curious about cultural differences and what they're based on. 53 pages of debate (which I haven't read) over something that's not an issue where I'm from.  I've never known anyone who owned a handgun or expressed an interest in having one.  I do know a couple of people with shotguns, but that's associated with farm management and I was only looking at the subject line re guns in the home.

Fair enough, that makes sense.  That style of question asking where you already have the answer in mind is just a bit disarming.

"Is pizza your favorite food?  Or are you a psychopath who hates things that taste good?"

FWIW I've got a few guns and hope/expect I'll never have to use them.  Then again, if a situation comes up where I do need them, I'll be pretty glad I have them.

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2626 on: June 07, 2017, 08:21:16 AM »
For states without an international airport, you'd just take a two-leg flight to another airport and then get on your international flight in New York or Detroit or California, etc.

Yes, you can, but if you're starting in, say, Montana, that can be a long-ass journey.  And expensive.   
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trollwithamustache

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2627 on: June 07, 2017, 08:34:44 AM »
That style of question asking where you already have the answer in mind is just a bit disarming.

I see what you did there.

Seriously to the question asker... yes sometimes we feel less safe overseas. But, also sometimes we feel safer!  Some places like the middle east I felt totally safe but would never be comfortable with my wife being over there and no gun would make it safe for her.  Shades of gray always ruin a good armchair philosopher when they try to run for office!

Alim Nassor

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2628 on: June 07, 2017, 05:59:42 PM »
We lived in Malaysia a couple of time for a year or more each time, and travelled back and forth quite often.  Every place we rented, and these were NICE condo's, had bars on the windows and cages on the door.   It was pretty common to read about pahrang attacks.   A pahrang is pretty much like a machete.  Gun ownership is almost impossible, but at every bank, there was an armed guard. 

I've never had bars on my windows at home, hardly ever lock our doors, and none of the banks in our area have guards.

Now, did I feel unsafe while there?  Not really.  I'm 6'4" and can handle myself pretty well.   But, I always made sure my wife walked on the building side of the sidewalks, due to the prevalence of scooter snatch thieves, that have occasionally dragged people to their deaths.   At home, I never worry about such things.   I've never worried about pickpockets here either, but on our first day in Paris, I caught a guy with his hand in my wife's purse.   

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2629 on: June 08, 2017, 09:30:29 AM »
Quote
A bit of a loaded question there, don't you think?
It wasn't meant to be, I'm just passingly curious about cultural differences and what they're based on. 53 pages of debate (which I haven't read) over something that's not an issue where I'm from.  I've never known anyone who owned a handgun or expressed an interest in having one.  I do know a couple of people with shotguns, but that's associated with farm management and I was only looking at the subject line re guns in the home.
Most of those 53 pages were more about the US Constitutional Right (or not) to own and/or carry various types of firearms and less about who owns them or keeps them for home or personal protection and why.

I think the small amount of discussion about actual ownership showed a fairly large number of people in the US and abroad owned shotguns or rifles they used for hunting, critter management on their property or recreational sports shooting rather than for protection. Most were unloaded and locked away when not in use. A smaller number of people had defensive weapons - handguns and certain types of rifles and shotguns- in their homes for protection or recreational shooting. Many kept them unloaded and locked away due to having kids, some others kept them loaded and near by for immediate protection in their homes. A smaller number of people carried a loaded firearm on them outside the home - with a conceal carry permit - depending on their state laws (in the US the individual states determine most of their own gun ownership and carry laws not the federal government).

 It seemed like those who had guns purely for home or personal protection were a fairly small number compared to those who kept them for hunting and/or recreational shooting, and only a small number carried a firearm outside their homes ever. So doubt many people felt any more afraid when travelling outside the US then they did traveling in the US since most never carry their guns outside their homes. Too bad there wasn't a poll associated with this thread.

There's an element of mixed use for me.  I don't own any weapons purely for self defense.  I wouldn't bother spending the money on something so specialized (for instance, I don't desire to own a small-frame "carry" pistol). 

That being said, if I'm going to own weapons in the house, they might as well serve dual roles, so I store some of them in the way that they are useful defensively, even though I don't really plan to use them that way.  My shotgun that's fun for skeet shooting also makes a fine home defense weapon, so might as well store it under the bed in the master bedroom rather than in a closet in the basement. 

Same with various carry permits; my lifestyle doesn't generally lend itself to carrying a firearm regularly (can't bring a gun to work, and most of my leaving the house revolves around going to work) so I don't, but I got a CCW anyways because I wanted to avoid 'technical' violations of the law.  For instance, if I wear a shoulder holster with a pistol in it, and want to wear a coat over it, now it's "concealed" so it's better to just have the permit to make sure I'm not hassled over it. 
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Kathryn K.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2630 on: June 08, 2017, 09:33:13 AM »
Haven't read the whole thread, but thought I'd chime in since I feel like I have a unique perspective, having come from a non-gun owning family and marrying my husband who is a devoted gun owner and carries concealed whenever he is able to.  (Tip for thinner/smaller people, my husband has found that an ankle holster is by far the best way for him to carry.)  Some people are just very self-reliant and it's very important to them to stack the odds in their own favor as much as possible to be able protect their family (my husband didn't start carrying until after our daughter was born.)  On my own, I probably wouldn't have a gun but I respect my husband's desires to.  Guns are also fun to target shoot with.

1.   Why don't you move to a less dangerous area?    It can't be much fun, being constantly on edge that someone is going to invade your house or assault you on the street.

We live in a safe area, however, even around here (rural Midwest) there is crime and some people are deeply self-reliant and prefer to have the option to defend themselves and their families should the need ever arise.  In a lot of cases, the police won't be able to get to you in time to protect you should a situation come up.

2.  Do you regularly practice with your firearm? 


Yes, we live in the country so can shoot on our own property. My husband also has military training from being in the national guard and grew up hunting.  I don't have as much experience but have used and am comfortable with the revolver we have in our bedside safe.


3.  If you have children or a spouse, how have you trained them to stay out of the way if there's an incident?  i.e. so they don't get shot?


We are extremely respectful of our guns so would make sure to keep out of the way/check carefully to make sure none of us are in the way before using them.

4.  How to you plan to deal with the first responders after an incident?    Will the police arrest you?   Do you have a lawyer ready to call on your phone?  Or does your jurisdiction take the view that you're allowed to shoot in your home, so you don't expect to have issues with the authorities?

From what my husband has shared from the concealed carry classes he has attended, if you shoot someone just plan on being arrested initially, but if you were justified in doing it, that will come out and you'll be ok in the end.  So besides the obvious one of possibly hurting or killing another human being, that is why you need to take using a firearm very seriously and only as a last resort.

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2631 on: June 08, 2017, 09:51:10 AM »
From what my husband has shared from the concealed carry classes he has attended, if you shoot someone just plan on being arrested initially

I've heard this, but I think it is only true if you shoot someone outside your home (i.e., out in the 'real world'.)  If you are in your home and shoot an intruder who is also  *IN* (not in the back yard, down the street, etc) your home, I don't think you have to plan to be arrested.  Questioned/investigated, probably, but not likely arrested. 
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Kathryn K.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2632 on: June 08, 2017, 10:08:14 AM »
From what my husband has shared from the concealed carry classes he has attended, if you shoot someone just plan on being arrested initially

I've heard this, but I think it is only true if you shoot someone outside your home (i.e., out in the 'real world'.)  If you are in your home and shoot an intruder who is also  *IN* (not in the back yard, down the street, etc) your home, I don't think you have to plan to be arrested.  Questioned/investigated, probably, but not likely arrested.

Very possibly. I imagine it's highly dependent on whether your state has the castle doctrine and the vagaries of your local law enforcement.  Hopefully I'll never be in a position to find out...

RetiredAt63

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2633 on: June 08, 2017, 11:03:31 AM »
Not sure, but there may not be a whole lot of overlap between Americans who regularly carry guns around with them in the US and Americans who regularly travel outside of the US...

Most Americans don't travel outside the US, and particularly not regularly.  If you're talking regularly, then you're going to be talking about businesspeople or wealthier travelers.   The US is so big that its possible to do a lot of great travel within our borders.   My family has been to Florida, San Diego, Washington DC, Las Vegas and the Grand Canyon in recent years, all really nice trips.   There are many more places in the US that I'd like to see, too.   I would love to go to Italy, but when we considered it, we ended up going to San Francisco and Napa Valley instead.  Maybe someday we'll get to Europe but it's not critical that we get there.
I know its a bit off topic, but I have 2 general travel goals.  One is to see my own country, which is also vast and full of different cultures.  Two is to visit foreign countries, which have truly different cultures because the history and mode of government is different.  Once I got past the accents I felt more at home in Australia and New Zealand than I do in the US, because shared Commonwealth background.  So no matter how much of Canada I visit, if that is all I do I am missing out on the foreign experience.  And if I only go to foreign countries, I am not seeing the rest of my own country.  I think we need to do both.
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fdhs_runner

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2634 on: June 08, 2017, 05:24:07 PM »
I'm curious (as an Australian) - when gun-owning Americans travel overseas, do you feel vulnerable without your guns?  Or okay because you're in countries where gun ownership is uncommon, so there's less sense of danger from other gun owners?

Depends on the country in question. Korea is quite safe, I just spent a year working there and I was able to bike all over Seoul without having to worry about crossing the wrong street and suddenly getting the stink eye from 3 or 4 dudes with baseball bats and machetes.

Here even though the crime is worse than Seoul, I'm still far more likely to get hit by a drunk, reckless, careless, or distracted driver than attacked. This place, unlike Seoul with its excellent infrastructure, lacks sidewalks, crosswalks, and honestly looks like it was intentionally set up to be hostile to pedestrians.

Crime wise, D.C. is probably the worst place I've spent much time. Course I can't legally carry a gun there. The states are quite a patchwork of vastly different laws. I'm not sure if all foreigners realize that. It seems like our media likes to portray everywhere stateside as having D.C.'s homicide rate and Vermont's laws.

GuitarStv

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2635 on: June 08, 2017, 05:56:53 PM »
If you legally shoot someone who is breaking in to your home do you get to keep the carcass?

greaper007

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2636 on: June 08, 2017, 06:18:25 PM »
If you legally shoot someone who is breaking in to your home do you get to keep the carcass?

I believe so, sort of like hitting a deer with your car.   But a responsible home owner would make sure to eat the animal and make a nice coat out of the hide.

GuitarStv

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2637 on: June 08, 2017, 06:43:17 PM »
If you legally shoot someone who is breaking in to your home do you get to keep the carcass?

I believe so, sort of like hitting a deer with your car.   But a responsible home owner would make sure to eat the animal and make a nice coat out of the hide.

Well, obviously you would taxidermy the head and mount it on a wall somewhere, and if there's not enough skin for a nice jacket you could probably get some decent leather gloves . . . but what is the best way to prepare burglar meat for enhanced flavour?

KBecks

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2638 on: June 08, 2017, 06:45:29 PM »
Tastes like bacon.

Shane

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2639 on: June 08, 2017, 11:16:20 PM »
We lived in Malaysia a couple of time for a year or more each time, and travelled back and forth quite often.  Every place we rented, and these were NICE condo's, had bars on the windows and cages on the door.   It was pretty common to read about pahrang attacks.   A pahrang is pretty much like a machete.  Gun ownership is almost impossible, but at every bank, there was an armed guard. 

Alim, as my family and I are about to head to KL for the summer, your comment about pahrang attacks was a little bit troubling. Where did you live in Malaysia that those were common? lol.

Alim Nassor

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2640 on: June 08, 2017, 11:30:37 PM »
Hi Shane.  I'm sorry to make you worry, they were common enough to make the newspaper once a week or so, but KL is a huge city.   I wouldn't worry too much about those, it's the snatch thieves that are your main concern.  We lived in Ipoh, about 3 hours north of KL, but I spent many weeks in KL since the company had factories in both cities.

Enjoy your trip, there's crime everywhere, the odds of it affecting you directly are very slim.

Alim Nassor

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2641 on: June 08, 2017, 11:39:00 PM »
We lived in Malaysia a couple of time for a year or more each time, and travelled back and forth quite often.  Every place we rented, and these were NICE condo's, had bars on the windows and cages on the door.   It was pretty common to read about pahrang attacks.   A pahrang is pretty much like a machete.  Gun ownership is almost impossible, but at every bank, there was an armed guard. 

Alim, as my family and I are about to head to KL for the summer, your comment about pahrang attacks was a little bit troubling. Where did you live in Malaysia that those were common? lol.

I did a search in the Malaysia Star newspaper for "parang" and here are the results.  I guess I misspelled it. 

http://www.thestar.com.my/search/?q=parang&qsort=newest&qrec=10&qstockcode=&pgno=3

A lot of the results don't have anything to do with crime, and it's spread out among the whole country, not just KL and other big cities.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 11:41:15 PM by Alim Nassor »

Shane

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2642 on: June 09, 2017, 02:13:15 AM »
Hi Shane.  I'm sorry to make you worry, they were common enough to make the newspaper once a week or so, but KL is a huge city.   I wouldn't worry too much about those, it's the snatch thieves that are your main concern.  We lived in Ipoh, about 3 hours north of KL, but I spent many weeks in KL since the company had factories in both cities.

Enjoy your trip, there's crime everywhere, the odds of it affecting you directly are very slim.

Thanks Alim. I agree with you that we're probably pretty unlikely to be directly affected by crime in Malaysia. Several friends and acquaintances regularly travel to Malaysia with their young children, and none of them have ever mentioned any concerns about personal safety. Everyone I've spoken with so far has raved about how wonderful KL is for families.

Pretty sure the greatest danger to us where we are now in Vietnam is getting run over by a crazy motor bike driver going too fast in the wrong lane or up on the sidewalk or whatever. Being a victim of crime is relatively low on my list of concerns while traveling in Asia.

Shane

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2643 on: June 09, 2017, 02:27:42 AM »
We lived in Malaysia a couple of time for a year or more each time, and travelled back and forth quite often.  Every place we rented, and these were NICE condo's, had bars on the windows and cages on the door.   It was pretty common to read about pahrang attacks.   A pahrang is pretty much like a machete.  Gun ownership is almost impossible, but at every bank, there was an armed guard. 

Alim, as my family and I are about to head to KL for the summer, your comment about pahrang attacks was a little bit troubling. Where did you live in Malaysia that those were common? lol.

I did a search in the Malaysia Star newspaper for "parang" and here are the results.  I guess I misspelled it. 

http://www.thestar.com.my/search/?q=parang&qsort=newest&qrec=10&qstockcode=&pgno=3

A lot of the results don't have anything to do with crime, and it's spread out among the whole country, not just KL and other big cities.

Thanks for the link Alim. Hopefully nobody will bother us. We've each only got one little <7kg carry-on bag, so our wardrobes are pretty sparse, and none of us wears flashy jewelry or expensive watches or anything, so pretty sure we won't present a real enticing target.

Your comment about watching out for guys on passing motorbikes who like to snatch women's purses is well taken. My wife carries a little bag strapped across her chest. Although there's nothing really valuable inside, she always wears it on the side facing away from the street just to make it less likely somebody will try to grab it. I wish she wouldn't carry it at all. I keep telling her to put everything under her clothing where it's not visible to anyone, but she likes the convenience of having the little bag over her shoulder, and I'm choosing to respect her choice. I just don't want her to get knocked down and dragged over a dumb bag with a tiny bit of cash and some tissues and hand wipes in it...

Alim Nassor

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2644 on: June 09, 2017, 04:03:12 AM »
Hi Shane.  I'm sorry to make you worry, they were common enough to make the newspaper once a week or so, but KL is a huge city.   I wouldn't worry too much about those, it's the snatch thieves that are your main concern.  We lived in Ipoh, about 3 hours north of KL, but I spent many weeks in KL since the company had factories in both cities.

Enjoy your trip, there's crime everywhere, the odds of it affecting you directly are very slim.

Thanks Alim. I agree with you that we're probably pretty unlikely to be directly affected by crime in Malaysia. Several friends and acquaintances regularly travel to Malaysia with their young children, and none of them have ever mentioned any concerns about personal safety. Everyone I've spoken with so far has raved about how wonderful KL is for families.

Pretty sure the greatest danger to us where we are now in Vietnam is getting run over by a crazy motor bike driver going too fast in the wrong lane or up on the sidewalk or whatever. Being a victim of crime is relatively low on my list of concerns while traveling in Asia.

We LOVED Vietnam, but holy shit, you're right about the scooters.  We were in Ho Chi Minh City one time and there must have been at least 1000 scooters stopped at a red light, my wife stepped out into the lane with her camera and hollered "SMILE" and took a picture.   The first 4 or 5 rows all burst out laughing.   We rented a scooter and rode all the way around the island of Phu Quoc.   Very enjoyable, but no traffic to deal with.

Drifterrider

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2645 on: June 14, 2017, 01:12:10 PM »
With the exception of law enforcement, if you're going to carry, carry concealed.  On the rare occasion you would actually ever need your gun, concealed carry will give you the element of surprise advantage.

In some states it is difficult/impossible to carry concealed.  NC has been an open carry state longer than I've been alive but the existence of a CCP is a relatively new thing (1990s).  Prior to that, it just didn't exist for anyone other than law enforcement.

Some people carry openly in order to exercise their rights.  Rights are like muscles; without use they atrophy.

Open carry can be more of a deterrent than anything else.

cheapass

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2646 on: June 14, 2017, 01:48:48 PM »
With the exception of law enforcement, if you're going to carry, carry concealed.  On the rare occasion you would actually ever need your gun, concealed carry will give you the element of surprise advantage.

In some states it is difficult/impossible to carry concealed.  NC has been an open carry state longer than I've been alive but the existence of a CCP is a relatively new thing (1990s).  Prior to that, it just didn't exist for anyone other than law enforcement.

Some people carry openly in order to exercise their rights.  Rights are like muscles; without use they atrophy.

Open carry can be more of a deterrent than anything else.

Texas just legalized OC last year. I have yet to see anyone carry openly as I think most of us are concerned about blowback if the soccer moms get their jimmies rustled and start pushing back on our rights. Funny how nobody seems to have a problem with the 3-4% of the population that carry under a thin piece of fabric.
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BDWW

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2647 on: June 14, 2017, 01:52:49 PM »
For states without an international airport, you'd just take a two-leg flight to another airport and then get on your international flight in New York or Detroit or California, etc.

Yes, you can, but if you're starting in, say, Montana, that can be a long-ass journey.  And expensive.   

Yep, it takes time to load up the pack mules, stock provisions, and journey into the civilized world...

Or I can drive ten minutes to the airport and take a direct flight to -
 off the top of my head - Seattle,Portland,SF,Vegas,Den,SLC,Chicago,Phoenix,LA,NYC,Dallas...

JLee

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2648 on: June 14, 2017, 02:35:20 PM »
With the exception of law enforcement, if you're going to carry, carry concealed.  On the rare occasion you would actually ever need your gun, concealed carry will give you the element of surprise advantage.

In some states it is difficult/impossible to carry concealed.  NC has been an open carry state longer than I've been alive but the existence of a CCP is a relatively new thing (1990s).  Prior to that, it just didn't exist for anyone other than law enforcement.

Some people carry openly in order to exercise their rights.  Rights are like muscles; without use they atrophy.

Open carry can be more of a deterrent than anything else.

That's generally the excuse I see from people who open carry because they want to be assholes and intentionally create drama.

Open carry for most people is a poor tactical decision. Unless you're using a triple retention holster (and know how to defend yourself from a gun grab, which is still possible with an excellent holster), you're ripe for something like this:


libertarian4321

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2649 on: June 14, 2017, 04:02:30 PM »
With the exception of law enforcement, if you're going to carry, carry concealed.  On the rare occasion you would actually ever need your gun, concealed carry will give you the element of surprise advantage.

In some states it is difficult/impossible to carry concealed.  NC has been an open carry state longer than I've been alive but the existence of a CCP is a relatively new thing (1990s).  Prior to that, it just didn't exist for anyone other than law enforcement.

Some people carry openly in order to exercise their rights.  Rights are like muscles; without use they atrophy.

Open carry can be more of a deterrent than anything else.

That's generally the excuse I see from people who open carry because they want to be assholes and intentionally create drama.

Open carry for most people is a poor tactical decision. Unless you're using a triple retention holster (and know how to defend yourself from a gun grab, which is still possible with an excellent holster), you're ripe for something like this:

Open carry one pistol.  Concealed carry the second to shoot the bastard who might try to steal the open carry weapon.