Author Topic: Firearms in the home  (Read 464697 times)

JLee

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2350 on: February 28, 2017, 09:04:05 PM »
^ You mean unicorns WITH guns ;-)

lol ah yes, that. Poorly phrased on my part.

Gin1984

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2351 on: March 01, 2017, 06:43:33 AM »
I live in NYS, can you explain to me how the safe act is confiscation?
It's not a blanket confiscation, but it's happening: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Gun-confiscation-prompts-lawsuit-10818702.php
I agree with her lawsuit, she should have had a lawyer.  However, that is not blanket confiscation.  It is set to remove guns from people who are mentally not competent and there was an error, which could have been avoided if she had a lawyer.  Seems a simple solution and not blanket confiscation.

MishMash

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2352 on: March 01, 2017, 07:13:35 AM »
^ You mean unicorns WITH guns ;-)

BWAHAHAHA  Love it!

Felicity

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2353 on: March 01, 2017, 08:15:22 AM »
I definitely did not read through the whole thread, but I didn't see any mention of this podcast episode: https://gimletmedia.com/episode/guns/

Science Vs is an awesome show  ^_^

All their references are listed there on the site as well.
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golden1

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2354 on: March 01, 2017, 08:17:56 AM »
I do agree that "gun violence" is a broad umbrella term that demands separate solutions to some degree. 

Suicide is an interesting one because it touches me personally.  As someone who has depression, I would be hesitant to own a gun, and I probably shouldn't ever own one TBH.  As I said upthread, one of my friends from high school killed himself with one of many guns he owned, and it looked like he was contemplating taking other out with him.  He was diagnosed with major depression and had made suicidal threats multiple times.   Yet the Trump administration wants to make it easier for people like me and him to own a gun.  While it could mean that a mentally ill violent person could cause a mass shooting, the more likely outcome is a bump in the suicide rate.  I could totally see how access to a gun in a bad moment could lead to successful suicide much easier than other methods.  There is no current mental illness treatment that could detect or counteract that with any reliability. 


golden1

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2355 on: March 01, 2017, 08:23:54 AM »
And when I say liberals should become "gun nuts", I am more talking about extremist groups like the Black Panther party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

When "certain" people carry guns, gun control becomes okay.  Even Reagan agreed. 
 
Strangely enough, nothing similar seemed to happen when a bunch of separatists in Oregon started causing trouble. 

Metric Mouse

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2356 on: March 01, 2017, 08:25:17 AM »
African Americans are statistically several times more likely to be victimized by  African Americans than by white Trump supporters. Arming themselves for the wrong boogie man.
Let's be careful not to conflate correlation with causation here.  The likelihood has little to do with color, and more to do with gang affiliation.

It's proximity. White people are more likely to be victimized by other white people, as well. God, that old "black on black crime" horse gets tiresome.

Of course it's proximity.

All he was trying to say is black people arming themselves against white trump supporters is about as foolish as, for example, white trump supporters arming themselves against muslims.

Not quite.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers
Oh please... did you even read this? It exactly backs up my points.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2357 on: March 01, 2017, 08:30:18 AM »
And when I say liberals should become "gun nuts", I am more talking about extremist groups like the Black Panther party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

When "certain" people carry guns, gun control becomes okay.  Even Reagan agreed. 
 
Strangely enough, nothing similar seemed to happen when a bunch of separatists in Oregon started causing trouble.
Anything from this thread indicating people engaged in this conversation feel thay way, or just a 50 year old law from one of the most pro gun control states in the union, which very few people are arguing should be a model for national laws. And those that are, are not on the pro gun rights side of the argument.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:53:55 PM by Metric Mouse »
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zolotiyeruki

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2358 on: March 01, 2017, 09:48:38 AM »
I live in NYS, can you explain to me how the safe act is confiscation?
It's not a blanket confiscation, but it's happening: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Gun-confiscation-prompts-lawsuit-10818702.php
I agree with her lawsuit, she should have had a lawyer.  However, that is not blanket confiscation.  It is set to remove guns from people who are mentally not competent and there was an error, which could have been avoided if she had a lawyer.  Seems a simple solution and not blanket confiscation.
I wasn't trying to claim that this was blanket confiscation.  But it illustrates clearly 1) how registration leads to confiscation, and 2) how easily that confiscation can happen and/or be abused when there is no due process.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2359 on: March 02, 2017, 04:14:05 PM »
African Americans are statistically several times more likely to be victimized by  African Americans than by white Trump supporters. Arming themselves for the wrong boogie man.
Let's be careful not to conflate correlation with causation here.  The likelihood has little to do with color, and more to do with gang affiliation.

It's proximity. White people are more likely to be victimized by other white people, as well. God, that old "black on black crime" horse gets tiresome.

Of course it's proximity.

All he was trying to say is black people arming themselves against white trump supporters is about as foolish as, for example, white trump supporters arming themselves against muslims.

Not quite.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers
  Wow, that chart is disturbing.  I had no idea blacks were killing so many whites in comparison to the reverse.  Thanks for shattering my illusions, Kris.

Kris

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2360 on: March 02, 2017, 04:28:36 PM »
African Americans are statistically several times more likely to be victimized by  African Americans than by white Trump supporters. Arming themselves for the wrong boogie man.
Let's be careful not to conflate correlation with causation here.  The likelihood has little to do with color, and more to do with gang affiliation.

It's proximity. White people are more likely to be victimized by other white people, as well. God, that old "black on black crime" horse gets tiresome.

Of course it's proximity.

All he was trying to say is black people arming themselves against white trump supporters is about as foolish as, for example, white trump supporters arming themselves against muslims.

Not quite.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

From your source:

"The vast majority of homicide victims are killed by people of their own race." "...However, the share of black-on-black homicides as a proportion of black people killed actually fell by just under 1 percentage point, to 89.3 percent."   

So, I don't understand what I got wrong. The trend seems to show white people as a slightly increasing, but relatively small, source of violence for black people.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but if you find the portion of my statement about it being foolish for white people to arm themselves specifically against Muslim violence to be objectionable, then it would be hard to reconcile that with your unstated but implied support of black people arming themselves against white people.

I'd like to compare Metric Mouse's statement to a statement in the article you linked:

MM:
"African Americans are statistically several times more likely to be victimized by  African Americans than by white Trump supporters. Arming themselves for the wrong boogie man."
 
US News:
"The vast majority of homicide victims are killed by people of their own race. "

Sort of seems like MM overstated the risk black people face from Trump supporters.

If your point is that there was a slight increase in the proportion of black victims of white violence, then, well, yeah.. trends change, and racial tensions are growing for whatever reason, and that's manifesting itself as a marginal change in the break down of what races are doing violence to others.

I don't think we're in disagreement about the facts, so maybe it's interpretation?

I look at this data and conclude that it's foolish for a black person to arm themselves specifically to ward off the threat of white people. Exactly as I look other data and think it's foolish to for a white person to arm themselves specifically to ward off the threat of black or Muslim people. I do, however, think it's a great idea for all people to arm themselves, train themselves, and throw off the victim mentality to increase their self sufficiency and ability to protect themselves, from any source of violence they encounter.

If you disagree with my statement, what am I to conclude? Semi-condescending quips like 'not quite' don't really help anything.

Sigh.

I said "not quite." As in, it's more complicated than that. As this article shows.

The article points out that inter-racial homicide is on the rise. It's one of the few areas where the rates are increasing.

"The number of black people killed by whites a demographic in the FBI report that includes those of Hispanic descent surged by nearly a quarter in 2015 from the year before, as the number of whites killed by blacks jumped 12 percent. Together, such interracial killings increased about 13 percent from 2014."

The number of black people who killed whites and the number of whites who killed blacks climbed to levels not seen since 2008.

It's quite possible that this trend will continue. I will refrain from speculating as to what specific cultural trends in our society might help contribute to that, but I think one might manage to point to a few factors that would lead one to conclude that this upward trend may continue.

Therefore, I think it's not too surprising that blacks would perceive a greater threat from whites more recently. And that perception in and of itself may contribute to the problem in the future.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2361 on: March 02, 2017, 07:40:06 PM »
Therefore, I think it's not too surprising that blacks would perceive a greater threat from whites more recently. And that perception in and of itself may contribute to the problem in the future.
Oh, no doubt there are several reasons people might perceive that they are more threatened by one group than another. They are completely wrong, and silly for thinking such a thing in face of overwhelming contrary evidence, but people's perceptions are funny things.

This is what is so great about this thread; it offers evidence to combat people's perceptions of the dangers of firearms. And certainly African Americans are in far more danger from other African Americans with guns than whites. And, from your link, whites are in more danger from African Americans with guns than African Americans are from whites with guns, statically speaking, though both those dangers are rising in small amounts, absolutely speaking.
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2362 on: March 03, 2017, 02:36:00 PM »
I am another liberal who is not pushing more gun control laws.  My husband owns the firearms and the permits since he is former military and I don't want the hassle of dealing with it myself.

tyort1

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2363 on: March 03, 2017, 05:10:57 PM »
I'm also a liberal that is perfectly fine with people owning guns.  I have several firearms that are still kept on the farm where I spent my summers growing up in Texas.  I don't have them in the city where I live now because crime is so low, we have a dog and a child.  Dogs seem to be more of a deterrent than guns in low crime areas.  And I don't mind teaching my daughter to shoot at the farm, but it's just too risky to keep in the house we live in.  These are my choices.  Others can do what they please.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2364 on: March 04, 2017, 02:42:13 PM »
I'm also a liberal that is perfectly fine with people owning guns.  I have several firearms that are still kept on the farm where I spent my summers growing up in Texas.  I don't have them in the city where I live now because crime is so low, we have a dog and a child.  Dogs seem to be more of a deterrent than guns in low crime areas.  And I don't mind teaching my daughter to shoot at the farm, but it's just too risky to keep in the house we live in.  These are my choices.  Others can do what they please.
Awesome.

Do you think people who have grown up with guns, or have spouses who own guns (mil/le experience, as above) are more aware of how guns can be used and stored safely than some other people, and thus less inclined to infringe upon other's rights?
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tyort1

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2365 on: March 04, 2017, 03:12:36 PM »
I'm also a liberal that is perfectly fine with people owning guns.  I have several firearms that are still kept on the farm where I spent my summers growing up in Texas.  I don't have them in the city where I live now because crime is so low, we have a dog and a child.  Dogs seem to be more of a deterrent than guns in low crime areas.  And I don't mind teaching my daughter to shoot at the farm, but it's just too risky to keep in the house we live in.  These are my choices.  Others can do what they please.
Awesome.

Do you think people who have grown up with guns, or have spouses who own guns (mil/le experience, as above) are more aware of how guns can be used and stored safely than some other people, and thus less inclined to infringe upon other's rights?

Oh sure.  Its just like with gay people.  If you personally know someone that is gay, you're way less likely to be homophobic.  And with guns - if you know people and they treat guns with the respect and safety that's needed, its a lot easier to be OK about guns.
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JLee

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2366 on: March 04, 2017, 06:49:14 PM »
I'm also a liberal that is perfectly fine with people owning guns.  I have several firearms that are still kept on the farm where I spent my summers growing up in Texas.  I don't have them in the city where I live now because crime is so low, we have a dog and a child.  Dogs seem to be more of a deterrent than guns in low crime areas.  And I don't mind teaching my daughter to shoot at the farm, but it's just too risky to keep in the house we live in.  These are my choices.  Others can do what they please.
Awesome.

Do you think people who have grown up with guns, or have spouses who own guns (mil/le experience, as above) are more aware of how guns can be used and stored safely than some other people, and thus less inclined to infringe upon other's rights?

Oh sure.  Its just like with gay people.  If you personally know someone that is gay, you're way less likely to be homophobic.  And with guns - if you know people and they treat guns with the respect and safety that's needed, its a lot easier to be OK about guns.

Yeah, this.  If you travel internationally, chances are you're less scared of foreign countries than someone who never left their hometown.

PizzaSteve

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2367 on: March 04, 2017, 07:42:54 PM »
Regarding racial violence stat trends, most of gun violence is among people who know each other.   Hence since historically races have been somewhat community-based and segregated, vuala, the stats.  Now add a trend for less segregation and more mixed race families and relationships, then the cross race violence rates go up, at a greater pace.  Has less to do with changing rated of interracial violence, then following overall population "racial mingling" trends that gun violence.  I imagine the rising percentages of cross racial job references and marriages are similar.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 07:54:38 PM by PizzaSteve »
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Lagom

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2368 on: March 04, 2017, 10:27:51 PM »
I'm also a liberal that is perfectly fine with people owning guns.  I have several firearms that are still kept on the farm where I spent my summers growing up in Texas.  I don't have them in the city where I live now because crime is so low, we have a dog and a child.  Dogs seem to be more of a deterrent than guns in low crime areas.  And I don't mind teaching my daughter to shoot at the farm, but it's just too risky to keep in the house we live in.  These are my choices.  Others can do what they please.
Awesome.

Do you think people who have grown up with guns, or have spouses who own guns (mil/le experience, as above) are more aware of how guns can be used and stored safely than some other people, and thus less inclined to infringe upon other's rights?

Oh sure.  Its just like with gay people.  If you personally know someone that is gay, you're way less likely to be homophobic.  And with guns - if you know people and they treat guns with the respect and safety that's needed, its a lot easier to be OK about guns.

This is a great comparison. 2nd Amendment crusaders who lean right take note.

Kris

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2369 on: March 05, 2017, 06:51:48 AM »
I'm also a liberal that is perfectly fine with people owning guns.  I have several firearms that are still kept on the farm where I spent my summers growing up in Texas.  I don't have them in the city where I live now because crime is so low, we have a dog and a child.  Dogs seem to be more of a deterrent than guns in low crime areas.  And I don't mind teaching my daughter to shoot at the farm, but it's just too risky to keep in the house we live in.  These are my choices.  Others can do what they please.
Awesome.

Do you think people who have grown up with guns, or have spouses who own guns (mil/le experience, as above) are more aware of how guns can be used and stored safely than some other people, and thus less inclined to infringe upon other's rights?

Oh sure.  Its just like with gay people.  If you personally know someone that is gay, you're way less likely to be homophobic.  And with guns - if you know people and they treat guns with the respect and safety that's needed, its a lot easier to be OK about guns.

This is a great comparison. 2nd Amendment crusaders who lean right take note.

And with transgender kids who need a place to pee without being assaulted.
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GuitarStv

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2370 on: March 05, 2017, 07:54:40 AM »
I'm also a liberal that is perfectly fine with people owning guns.  I have several firearms that are still kept on the farm where I spent my summers growing up in Texas.  I don't have them in the city where I live now because crime is so low, we have a dog and a child.  Dogs seem to be more of a deterrent than guns in low crime areas.  And I don't mind teaching my daughter to shoot at the farm, but it's just too risky to keep in the house we live in.  These are my choices.  Others can do what they please.
Awesome.

Do you think people who have grown up with guns, or have spouses who own guns (mil/le experience, as above) are more aware of how guns can be used and stored safely than some other people, and thus less inclined to infringe upon other's rights?

Oh sure.  Its just like with gay people.  If you personally know someone that is gay, you're way less likely to be homophobic.  And with guns - if you know people and they treat guns with the respect and safety that's needed, its a lot easier to be OK about guns.

I grew up with guns in the house (rifles and shotguns) and spent a lot of my childhood hunting.  I'm OK with guns.  I'm also OK with gun control, because I grew up in a country with sensible gun laws.  Maybe more people in the US need this exposure to allay the palpable fear that the words "gun control" elicit.

Drifterrider

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2371 on: March 06, 2017, 05:53:46 AM »
I'm also OK with gun control, because I grew up in a country with sensible gun laws.  Maybe more people in the US need this exposure to allay the palpable fear that the words "gun control" elicit.

Perhaps if people who constantly use the term "gun control" would be honest and say "people control", "gun control" would not be equated with the abolition of private ownership of firearms (which seems to be the non-stop message from people who use the term "gun control").

As to "sensible gun laws" (your term), one man's sensible is another man's tyranny.

Americans have the constitution specifically because our founding fathers knew not to trust government :)

Shortly after overthrowing the lawful government (the king, at that time) by force of arms, our government made it a crime to overthrow the lawful government, by force of arms.


Metric Mouse

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2372 on: March 06, 2017, 07:29:44 AM »
I'm also OK with gun control, because I grew up in a country with sensible gun laws.  Maybe more people in the US need this exposure to allay the palpable fear that the words "gun control" elicit.

Perhaps if people who constantly use the term "gun control" would be honest and say "people control", "gun control" would not be equated with the abolition of private ownership of firearms (which seems to be the non-stop message from people who use the term "gun control").

As to "sensible gun laws" (your term), one man's sensible is another man's tyranny.

Americans have the constitution specifically because our founding fathers knew not to trust government :)

Shortly after overthrowing the lawful government (the king, at that time) by force of arms, our government made it a crime to overthrow the lawful government, by force of arms.
I would argue there is a middle ground of 'sensible' gun control laws. We already have most of them: violent felons can't possess guns, mentally unhealthy persons can't possess guns, kids can't own guns, businesses and governmental buildings and private residences can largely ban guns from their premise if they wish, background check systems exist to vet owners, destructive devices that explode are more tightly monitored, people can't just go waving guns around and shooting into the air (despite what Joe Biden would wish) etc.  The most sensible changes are really relatively small - increase the number of people that get background checked and increase the number of people who have safety training with firearms.  The fine points of these are sources of contentious debates (should mentally incompetent people be entered into a database? Should all people be exposed to firearm safety training? Should background checks be mandated to be performed only by licensed gun dealers?) but overall I think there is a lot of agreement in the direction things could go, if not exactly the path to get there.
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2373 on: March 06, 2017, 01:03:27 PM »
I thought this was an interesting article.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/boston-the-second-amendment-right-to-be-afraid-the-night-i-came-face-to-face-with-my-gun-toting-neighbour

By the way, those who talk about shootings in Canada - we have lots of long guns, controls in place but perfectly legal.  It is hand guns that are very strictly limited.  I know this has been said here before, but it tends to be forgotten.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2374 on: March 06, 2017, 01:13:12 PM »
I thought this was an interesting article.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/boston-the-second-amendment-right-to-be-afraid-the-night-i-came-face-to-face-with-my-gun-toting-neighbour

By the way, those who talk about shootings in Canada - we have lots of long guns, controls in place but perfectly legal.  It is hand guns that are very strictly limited.  I know this has been said here before, but it tends to be forgotten.

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(My car) is extremely quiet (ideal for sneaking up on people and killing them) and also you can drive for hours without stopping for gas after murdering people, which is very convenient. The Yakima roof rack is also perfect for transporting dead bodies without messing up the interior.
- kinda friggin' disturbing.
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2375 on: March 06, 2017, 01:16:58 PM »
I thought this was an interesting article.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/boston-the-second-amendment-right-to-be-afraid-the-night-i-came-face-to-face-with-my-gun-toting-neighbour

By the way, those who talk about shootings in Canada - we have lots of long guns, controls in place but perfectly legal.  It is hand guns that are very strictly limited.  I know this has been said here before, but it tends to be forgotten.

Quote
"Somehow, my (veterinary) surgery training kicks in and I keep my cool."
  Thanks for the smile. :D

Though trained as a veterinary surgeon:
Quote
(My car) is extremely quiet (ideal for sneaking up on people and killing them) and also you can drive for hours without stopping for gas after murdering people, which is very convenient. The Yakima roof rack is also perfect for transporting dead bodies without messing up the interior.
- kinda friggin' disturbing.

She was mostly being sarcastic, I thought - but she does make a point.  Maybe the macho big truck people should be thinking about her points?  ;-)
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2376 on: March 06, 2017, 01:21:18 PM »
I thought this was an interesting article.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/boston-the-second-amendment-right-to-be-afraid-the-night-i-came-face-to-face-with-my-gun-toting-neighbour

By the way, those who talk about shootings in Canada - we have lots of long guns, controls in place but perfectly legal.  It is hand guns that are very strictly limited.  I know this has been said here before, but it tends to be forgotten.

Was the author more scared of the gun or the fact he didn't have his shirt on?  I wasn't really sure.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2377 on: March 06, 2017, 01:34:08 PM »
She was mostly being sarcastic, I thought - but she does make a point.  Maybe the macho big truck people should be thinking about her points?  ;-)

That they should wear shirts when they apologize? I was confused on what her point was...
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2378 on: March 06, 2017, 01:41:56 PM »
She was mostly being sarcastic, I thought - but she does make a point.  Maybe the macho big truck people should be thinking about her points?  ;-)

That they should wear shirts when they apologize? I was confused on what her point was...

I took her commentary to mean they should wear shirts unless they were athletic and hairless.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2379 on: March 06, 2017, 01:57:33 PM »
I thought this was an interesting article.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/boston-the-second-amendment-right-to-be-afraid-the-night-i-came-face-to-face-with-my-gun-toting-neighbour

By the way, those who talk about shootings in Canada - we have lots of long guns, controls in place but perfectly legal.  It is hand guns that are very strictly limited.  I know this has been said here before, but it tends to be forgotten.

Was the author more scared of the gun or the fact he didn't have his shirt on?  I wasn't really sure.
Considering she wrote "I have no idea who he is or what is going on, but I am pretty sure that I am going to die right here.", I think she was more afraid of the gun.  She is a vet.  She is used to fur.
 
Come on, people, read, don't skim.

ETA: I don't usually post on threads like this, because they get weird.  The point of the article was not to be an anecdata, it was to make the point that the second amendment promotes people living in an attitude of fear.  If that is less important than people having easy access to guns even though they are not part of a well-regulated militia, then let it lie.  But don't be silly about it (the guy wearing no shirt, what kind of car she was driving, etc.).
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 02:24:55 PM by RetiredAt63 »
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2380 on: March 06, 2017, 02:17:30 PM »
http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/stephen-gutowski/

Since we're posting annecdotes; single mother defends herself and young son from home invaders with firearm. It seems that they were very scared of the gun as well.
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2381 on: March 06, 2017, 02:27:47 PM »
I thought this was an interesting article.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/boston-the-second-amendment-right-to-be-afraid-the-night-i-came-face-to-face-with-my-gun-toting-neighbour

By the way, those who talk about shootings in Canada - we have lots of long guns, controls in place but perfectly legal.  It is hand guns that are very strictly limited.  I know this has been said here before, but it tends to be forgotten.

Was the author more scared of the gun or the fact he didn't have his shirt on?  I wasn't really sure.
Considering she wrote "I have no idea who he is or what is going on, but I am pretty sure that I am going to die right here.", I think she was more afraid of the gun.  She is a vet.  She is used to fur.
 
Come on, people, read, don't skim.

I read the entire article. 

She paints this guy as a fat, hairy ignorant redneck and makes fun of his religion.  He may be be those things, but her portrayal (including at least one obvious inaccuracy), causes me to question her credibility.  After she portrays him in that light, she then decides the 2nd amendment is an utter failure.

If you read the article carefully, you'll not that it wasn't just the farmer that perceived her as a threat, there was another group as well. 

Given her leanings and the fact 2 separate groups perceived her as a threat, I think the story could just as easily be farmer on private property stopped potential intruder while holding (not pointing) a gun.  Farmer found out it wasn't an intruder and apologized.  Anti-gun Canadian refused apology and wrote article.

Obviously neither you nor I was there so who knows what actually happened.  It could have happened exactly as described, or maybe not.

To your point about living in fear.  They are in a rural area.  Maybe they have or are having problems with theft, intruders etc.  Who knows.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 02:31:24 PM by Midwest »

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2382 on: March 06, 2017, 02:56:05 PM »
^agree.  Based on number of times she said "automatic weapon" or "assault rifle" she had some pretty extreme prejudice going in. 
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2383 on: March 07, 2017, 07:52:23 PM »
Hey, what's with open carry?  I saw some photos of protesters carrying and chatting with the police (but now I can't find them.)  It looks like this is regulated at the state level.   i.e. it's banned in New York, but not in New Mexico or Texas.

Do any of you guys open carry?   isn't it a pain lugging a couple of pounds around on your belt?




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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2384 on: March 08, 2017, 04:43:45 AM »
Hey, what's with open carry?  I saw some photos of protesters carrying and chatting with the police (but now I can't find them.)  It looks like this is regulated at the state level.   i.e. it's banned in New York, but not in New Mexico or Texas.

Do any of you guys open carry?   isn't it a pain lugging a couple of pounds around on your belt?

Open carry is legal in Texas and has been for a couple years. I haven't seen anyone doing it though, I choose to carry concealed because:
I prefer to have the element of surprise
I don't want to spook the soccer moms and cause knee-jerk political backlash

Many people here don't realize that 2 to 4 out of every 100 people they encounter are (legally) carrying.

As for the inconvenience/weight, it doesn't matter if it's open or concealed. As long as you have a quality belt and holster it is pretty comfortable.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 04:47:34 AM by cheapass »
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2385 on: March 08, 2017, 07:14:31 AM »
Hey, what's with open carry?  I saw some photos of protesters carrying and chatting with the police (but now I can't find them.)  It looks like this is regulated at the state level.   i.e. it's banned in New York, but not in New Mexico or Texas.

Do any of you guys open carry?   isn't it a pain lugging a couple of pounds around on your belt?
MishMash addresses why she open carries in reply 2235 on page 45. Just one perspective, but other posters commented that it has changed their views on open carry.
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2386 on: March 08, 2017, 07:48:03 AM »
I am pretty sure discrediting someone when you don't agree with what they are saying is about the biggest tell for cognitive dissonance that there is. 


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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2387 on: March 08, 2017, 08:06:01 AM »
I am pretty sure discrediting someone when you don't agree with what they are saying is about the biggest tell for cognitive dissonance that there is.
If you're referring to the Canadian... well, demonstrating a clear bias on the part of a person telling an anecdotal story is fair play, since all we're offered for actual proof is her credibility. She clearly has none, has an agenda, and her own story partially discredits her.

It's not like she's a scientist offering verifiable data and conslusions, while the plebs make fun of her hair or something.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2388 on: March 08, 2017, 04:54:34 PM »
Yeah, I guess.   "Open carry" when you're hunting makes sense, it's not like you can hunt without your rifle.   Or does open carry imply a pistol?

To me carrying a pistol around in the city is a bit like carrying around a chain saw.    I don't live in an area with a high crime rate so I don't see a need for a pistol when I walk around.    Similarly, I'm not cutting down trees, so I can leave my chainsaw at the cottage.    The right tools for the right job and all that.

Plus up here you can get in a lot of trouble for walking around with your pistol.    Even the local range says:

Quote
Can I open/conceal carry a firearm on the property?
NO. You may only carry a holstered firearm on range 4 & 5 and only if you have completed your Black Badge or IDPA holster course with tangible documentation/badges to support it.

You must also obtain permission from the range officer per session to do so, and cannot make any vertical or horizontal movements unless a sanctioned practice or match is in session.

*You cannot step foot off the range past the fence with a holstered firearm. This includes going to your car.

If you want to transport a pistol within Canada, it has to be unloaded, locked (I think this means a trigger lock), the weapon has to be locked in a container and you need a transport authorization.

Back on page 45, I noticed one of the hunters mentioned they carried a pistol for dealing with bears.   Anyone ever had to shoot a charging black bear with their pistol?   I think that would be terrifying.   I used to spend a lot of time in the rockies and I got about 4 weeks in the Yukon.   Bear avoidance was pretty important.    A friend of mine was treed by a young grizzly in the Yukon.   She handled it pretty well.   The bear well, it wandered into a native village a few weeks later and was shot.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2389 on: March 09, 2017, 07:55:29 AM »
Back on page 45, I noticed one of the hunters mentioned they carried a pistol for dealing with bears.   Anyone ever had to shoot a charging black bear with their pistol?   I think that would be terrifying.   I used to spend a lot of time in the rockies and I got about 4 weeks in the Yukon.   Bear avoidance was pretty important.    A friend of mine was treed by a young grizzly in the Yukon.   She handled it pretty well.   The bear well, it wandered into a native village a few weeks later and was shot.

I have not, but one of the guys I hunt with has, on our property.  He was in a ground blind with basically no way to get out easily and the bear approached him.  Emptied his sidearm into the bear (he was bow hunting, or he would've shot him with his rifle).  Not sure if he was carrying a .45 or a .44 Mag, but it killed the bear just fine.  It would be terrifying, but it would be more terrifying to not have the sidearm.  Believe it was a brown bear. 
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2390 on: March 09, 2017, 08:00:54 AM »
I have not, but one of the guys I hunt with has, on our property.  He was in a ground blind with basically no way to get out easily and the bear approached him.  Emptied his sidearm into the bear (he was bow hunting, or he would've shot him with his rifle).  Not sure if he was carrying a .45 or a .44 Mag, but it killed the bear just fine.  It would be terrifying, but it would be more terrifying to not have the sidearm.  Believe it was a brown bear.

Sad that many people would prefer he not have that method of self-defense and that he be mauled to death instead.
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2391 on: March 09, 2017, 08:02:41 AM »
The whole "bear threat" thing is very over stated.
I've hunted Alaska six times in the middle of grizzly / brown bear country and we cooked and kept food in the tent every trip.  I challenged the guide on the matter on my first trip, and his response was ..... I hope one does show up, then we won't have to wander all over the countryside tomorrow looking for one.

In most cases, bears avoid you and run off just like deer do. 
In places such as national parks where they are protected, is where most problems occur.  They have no natural fear of man in these locations.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2392 on: March 09, 2017, 08:19:31 AM »
The whole "bear threat" thing is very over stated.

Maybe, maybe not.  We have two buried on our property.  We have trail cam footage of more.  It was three years ago the guy I mentioned above shot that one.  We have plenty of evidence of stuff getting trashed by bears (blinds, chairs, damage to sheds where they tried to get in, etc).  Pretty easy to say it is over stated when it's not your hide.  Also, AK is very very big and open.  We're on 100 acres, but it is MUCH more dense, there's simply fewer places for the bear to run off to. 
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2393 on: March 09, 2017, 09:05:52 AM »
Since you're on a 100 acre place, I assume you are in the lower 48 huh Chris?
A couple posts above, you state "Believe it was a Brown bear".   Guess what ... there are no Brown bears in the lower 48, only place they exist in north America is coastal BC and Alaska.

You also state AK is very big and open.  Guessing you've not been there either. 
Yea it's big, but there areas of brush so dense you can't see ten feet, try to walk thru an Alder thicket.

Your buddy in the ground blind probably could have hollered and ran that BLACK bear off, but instead chose to shoot it.
Not to be a dick, but your bear expertise is suspect at best.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2394 on: March 09, 2017, 10:19:13 AM »
Since you're on a 100 acre place, I assume you are in the lower 48 huh Chris?
A couple posts above, you state "Believe it was a Brown bear".   Guess what ... there are no Brown bears in the lower 48, only place they exist in north America is coastal BC and Alaska.

Guilty.  Northern WI.  I'm not a bear expert.  Guess it was a black bear.


Quote
You also state AK is very big and open.  Guessing you've not been there either. 
Yea it's big, but there areas of brush so dense you can't see ten feet, try to walk thru an Alder thicket.

I have been there, but only briefly and not in the wild.  However, it's not about how dense the brush is, it's about how densely populated the land is.  In a place that is sparsely populated, you are less likely to run into a bear because there is more open land.  Shark in a swimming pool versus shark in an ocean. 

Quote
Your buddy in the ground blind probably could have hollered and ran that BLACK bear off, but instead chose to shoot it.

Woulda coulda shoulda.  In WI, you have to be in imminent fear for your life to shoot a bear without an (extremely hard to get) bear tag.  DNR warden called it a good shoot.  I wasn't there, and neither were you. 


Quote
Not to be a dick, but your bear expertise is suspect at best.

It's completely suspect.  I don't know squat about bears.  But I DO know that they are prevalent where we hunt given how many we've encountered and seen on trail cams, so the thought that "it's overstated" is laughable to me. 
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2395 on: March 09, 2017, 10:55:58 AM »
I am pretty sure discrediting someone when you don't agree with what they are saying is about the biggest tell for cognitive dissonance that there is.
Yes, the author was clearly experiencing strong cognitive dissonance around the events. Her terrible off- color descriptions of her neighbors was a clear sign; good to point it out.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 11:01:34 AM by Metric Mouse »
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2396 on: March 09, 2017, 11:39:02 AM »
The whole "bear threat" thing is very over stated.
I've hunted Alaska six times in the middle of grizzly / brown bear country and we cooked and kept food in the tent every trip.  I challenged the guide on the matter on my first trip, and his response was ..... I hope one does show up, then we won't have to wander all over the countryside tomorrow looking for one.

In most cases, bears avoid you and run off just like deer do. 
In places such as national parks where they are protected, is where most problems occur.  They have no natural fear of man in these locations.
Are people actually mad about hunters carrying a pistol? I mean, they have a high powered rifle in their other hand; I can't imagine that having a pistol in the woods is more of a danger to anyone other than bears. And yes, if a bear is close enoigh to be taken with a pistol, it clearly is far too close. We could argue whether yelling would stop a bear: can't argue with a dead bear full of lead.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 04:02:17 PM by Metric Mouse »
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2397 on: March 09, 2017, 03:53:07 PM »
Nope, I'm not angry about hunters carrying a pistol.    Black bears are pretty common and they can take their chances as far as I'm concerned.   Grizzly bears are endangered though so I have mixed feelings about shooting one if there are other options.   There was a really nasty video on youtube of some kids shooting a grizzly, I think it was in the BC coast ranges.   That made me pretty unhappy.

I was trying to picture a 400 lb bear charging me whilst I try to aim and shoot it.   (Doesn't help that I haven't shot in over 20 years).

We've been breeding bears to be afraid of people for what, 500 years?   Most of them are shy and will run away.    If they get habituated to people they cause problems.   Up north, once in a while, you get one that just avoided the breeding program and thinks people are food, but this is unusual.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2398 on: March 10, 2017, 04:08:42 PM »
YMMV and all . . . but I spent a fair amount of my childhood hunting in Northern Ontario.  We came across black bears in the woods pretty often.  Never had to shoot one (we fired a few rounds in the air to scare them off if they got very close).  Never had one 'sneak up' on me.  I've got a few friends who still live up north and regularly hunt who have never needed to shoot a bear either.

I'm not mad about a hunter carrying a hand gun, but it just seems weird.  It's like wearing a cuirass every time you go hunting.  Theoretically it could be useful, but it doesn't make any kind of sense in reality.  A hand gun isn't going to be more effective than the rifle you're already carrying.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #2399 on: March 10, 2017, 04:50:06 PM »
YMMV and all . . . but I spent a fair amount of my childhood hunting in Northern Ontario.  We came across black bears in the woods pretty often.  Never had to shoot one (we fired a few rounds in the air to scare them off if they got very close).  Never had one 'sneak up' on me.  I've got a few friends who still live up north and regularly hunt who have never needed to shoot a bear either.

I'm not mad about a hunter carrying a hand gun, but it just seems weird.  It's like wearing a cuirass every time you go hunting.  Theoretically it could be useful, but it doesn't make any kind of sense in reality.  A hand gun isn't going to be more effective than the rifle you're already carrying.

Unless you're not carrying a rifle.