Author Topic: Firearms in the home  (Read 375770 times)

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1800 on: November 01, 2016, 10:49:32 AM »

For me, the gun issue comes down to a pretty important freedom, to have the ability to go outside my house and walk around without getting shot.

Except that "freedom" doesn't exist anywhere.  You may argue it is inherent in "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness" but it isn't codified like the 2A is.

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In Hawaii, we have both the freedom to own as many weapons as we like, including assault rifles and semi-automatics, and the freedom to go anywhere we like without having to worry some asshole with a gun might shoot us. Seems like a pretty good balance to me.

Instead of arguing that it can't be done in the rest of the country, why not be willing to accept some reasonable restrictions on gun ownership in exchange for the freedom to not get shot?

It's simply a fallacy to assume that "restrictive gun laws" leads to "don't have to worry some asshole with a gun might shoot us."  Pro tip, guys who are likely to shoot you are not likely to abide by some gun law given that it's already illegal to shoot you in almost all circumstances.

I don't know how many more times it needs to be said that law-abiding licensed gun owners account for basically zero crime, so outlawing law-abiding licensed gun owners from legally carrying firearms will have a negligible effect on crime and safety. 
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hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1801 on: November 01, 2016, 11:02:13 AM »
At the risk of sounding like I'm defending IN (I'm not...there's plenty wrong with this state), I still don't understand how IN's lack of gun laws is having an impact on Chicago. 

The statement that our firearms laws are "lax", relative to other states, for Indiana residents has merit.  But for Illinois residents, that's completely baseless.  Again, an Illinois resident cannot legally buy any type of firearm in this state without a FFL transfer to IL.  Period.  Sure they can buy them illegally, but that's already illegal....federal law illegal...illegal for every state under all circumstances illegal...punishable by going big-boy jail for a long time illegal.  *FFL transfer is between one federally licensed gun to another, requiring a federal background check when the firearm is picked up by the owner.

I would like to know how tougher IN gun laws will reduce the number of guns available to criminals in Chicago.

Also, believing that people should not be allow to carry a weapon is "reasonable" is a matter of opinion...just like me believing that law abiding citizens should have the right to defend themselves is my opinion.  We're both right...we're both wrong.  Whatever.  You live by your creed and I'll live by mine.  Doesn't mean we can't share the same patch of dirt or be friends. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 11:04:57 AM by hoosier »

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1802 on: November 01, 2016, 11:19:31 AM »
For me the gun issue comes down to a pretty important freedom, to have the ability to defend yourself.  There are all sorts of ways to restrict freedoms and make the world safer, I just draw my line a bit differently than you do.

For me, the gun issue comes down to a pretty important freedom, to have the ability to go outside my house and walk around without getting shot.

In Hawaii, we have both the freedom to own as many weapons as we like, including assault rifles and semi-automatics, and the freedom to go anywhere we like without having to worry some asshole with a gun might shoot us. Seems like a pretty good balance to me.

Instead of arguing that it can't be done in the rest of the country, why not be willing to accept some reasonable restrictions on gun ownership in exchange for the freedom to not get shot?
In HI, you lack the freedom to carry a gun as an effective means of self defense while out and about. I don't personally feel that carrying a gun for defense is needed, but I do respect that many  people feel that is just as important to them as a right to privacy appears to be to you. Both these rights are clearly outlined in the Bill of Rights and both are being threatened in the name of safety.

I would not support mandatory body cameras, because it would infringe on personal privacy. I also don't support having surveillance cameras everywhere, but most Americans seem to tolerate that without much problem. I also don't support allowing the government to monitor our emails, text messages and phone conversations, but apparently many Americans are just fine with that as long as it keeps them "safe" from the scary dark-skinned terrorists.
I think white-skinned terrorists are just as scary as dark-skinned terrorists. I also do not think giving up basic freedoms (such as privacy or the right to bear arms) is not worth the (mostly unfulfilled) promise of safety. Both privacy invading policies and gun regulations are pushed in an environment of rare tragic events that lead to a public outcry for safety.

hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1803 on: November 01, 2016, 11:21:33 AM »

It's simply a fallacy to assume that "restrictive gun laws" leads to "don't have to worry some asshole with a gun might shoot us."  Pro tip, guys who are likely to shoot you are not likely to abide by some gun law given that it's already illegal to shoot you in almost all circumstances.

I don't know how many more times it needs to be said that law-abiding licensed gun owners account for basically zero crime, so outlawing law-abiding licensed gun owners from legally carrying firearms will have a negligible effect on crime and safety.
This.  I worry more about the raged out meth junky than the guy carrying a pistol. 

ooeei

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1804 on: November 01, 2016, 11:41:32 AM »
As the person above me pointed out, Washington DC has equally restrictive gun laws, and is one of the most violent places in the United States.

One of the differences between Washington D.C. and Hawaii is that Washington D.C. has no effective means of preventing guns from entering from neighboring states. As most people enter Hawaii on commercial aircraft, Hawaii does.

This is true.  There are also significant population differences.  What's the gang situation like in Hawaii?

Quote
For me the gun issue comes down to a pretty important freedom, to have the ability to defend yourself.  There are all sorts of ways to restrict freedoms and make the world safer, I just draw my line a bit differently than you do.

For me, the gun issue comes down to a pretty important freedom, to have the ability to go outside my house and walk around without getting shot.

In Hawaii, we have both the freedom to own as many weapons as we like, including assault rifles and semi-automatics, and the freedom to go anywhere we like without having to worry some asshole with a gun might shoot us. Seems like a pretty good balance to me.

Instead of arguing that it can't be done in the rest of the country, why not be willing to accept some reasonable restrictions on gun ownership in exchange for the freedom to not get shot?

It's already illegal to shoot someone.  That's like me saying "I have the freedom to walk around and not get hit by a drunk driver, so alcohol should be illegal (or require extensive background checks, or have breathalyzers in every car, etc)."

Hell, I have the freedom to not get hit in the head with a baseball bat, that doesn't mean kids can't play ball.

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If I told you we could reduce violent crime by 30% by instituting mandatory body cameras on everyone in the general population linked to government databases, would you support making it law?  Why or why not? 

I would not support mandatory body cameras, because it would infringe on personal privacy. I also don't support having surveillance cameras everywhere, but most Americans seem to tolerate that without much problem. I also don't support allowing the government to monitor our emails, text messages and phone conversations, but apparently many Americans are just fine with that as long as it keeps them "safe" from the scary dark-skinned terrorists.

What?  You mean you would sacrifice 4,708 people to be murdered, 27,055 to be raped, and lord knows how many children to be abused, simply to avoid reasonable restrictions on privacy?  Those numbers are per year by the way.

What about my right to walk down the street without being murdered or raped?  Doesn't that outweigh your right to not wear a body camera?

jamesvt

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1805 on: November 01, 2016, 12:41:14 PM »
It's unnecessary to guess what types of gun laws might work in the United States. An example of reasonable gun laws that are already working well can be found in Hawaii.

Plenty of people in Hawaii own guns, especially in the more rural parts of the state, but yet there is very, very little gun violence in Hawaii, due at least in part to Hawaii's relatively strict gun laws.

Plenty of people in Hawaii have MANY guns, including assault rifles, semi automatics, pistols, shotguns, etc. It's totally legal to own as many guns as you want in Hawaii. You can collect them, take them to the range to shoot them, and use them to go hunting. People who are so inclined, can accumulate a pretty good sized arsenal of guns and ammunition that they could potentially use to fight against a future tyrranical government.

What you can't do in Hawaii is walk around on the streets or drive around in your car carrying loaded weapons. You can't carry your AR-15 into Starbucks to pick up a cup of coffee or take your AK-47 with you to the grocery store. You can't carry a loaded pistol in the glove box of your car or carry a Derringer in your purse. That's illegal. If you get caught carrying weapons around with you, other than when you're on our way to the range to go shoot or heading to or from a gun shop, the police arrest you and take you to jail.

To me, that seems like a pretty good compromise. People who are willing to be responsible, keep their guns locked up when they're not using them, not carry them around in public, can own/collect as many guns as they like. It seems to work fine, not only here in Hawaii, but in every. other. rich. industrialized. country. in. the. world. It's not rocket science. We can do it too. We just have to quit believing that it can't be done.
And Vermont has the least restrictive gun laws in the country and also has the lowest violent crime rate and second lowest murder rate in the country. It looks like we found "An example of reasonable gun laws that are already working well" You have states that have strict gun laws with high violent crime rates and you have ones with low violent crime rates. You also have states with lax gun laws with high violent crime rates and you have ones with low violent crime rates.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 12:46:35 PM by jamesvt »

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1806 on: November 01, 2016, 11:24:35 PM »
At the risk of sounding like I'm defending IN (I'm not...there's plenty wrong with this state), I still don't understand how IN's lack of gun laws is having an impact on Chicago. 

The statement that our firearms laws are "lax", relative to other states, for Indiana residents has merit.  But for Illinois residents, that's completely baseless.  Again, an Illinois resident cannot legally buy any type of firearm in this state without a FFL transfer to IL.  Period.  Sure they can buy them illegally, but that's already illegal....federal law illegal...illegal for every state under all circumstances illegal...punishable by going big-boy jail for a long time illegal.  *FFL transfer is between one federally licensed gun to another, requiring a federal background check when the firearm is picked up by the owner.

I would like to know how tougher IN gun laws will reduce the number of guns available to criminals in Chicago.

This question has been asked many times. There has never been an answer, because it wouldn't work.
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MustacheMathTM

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1807 on: November 01, 2016, 11:27:05 PM »
For me, the gun issue comes down to a pretty important freedom, to have the ability to go outside my house and walk around without getting shot.

In Hawaii, we have both the freedom to own as many weapons as we like, including assault rifles and semi-automatics, and the freedom to go anywhere we like without having to worry some asshole with a gun might shoot us. Seems like a pretty good balance to me.

Instead of arguing that it can't be done in the rest of the country, why not be willing to accept some reasonable restrictions on gun ownership in exchange for the freedom to not get shot?

Wait... are there ZERO gun deaths in HI?  Because if there are more than zero, then it would seem that HI doesn't actually have the right you claim it does... And if no one is allowed to carry a gun in public, but people are still being shot, wouldn't that point to the fact that there may be other factors at play?
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1808 on: November 02, 2016, 06:21:01 AM »
For me, the gun issue comes down to a pretty important freedom, to have the ability to go outside my house and walk around without getting shot.

In Hawaii, we have both the freedom to own as many weapons as we like, including assault rifles and semi-automatics, and the freedom to go anywhere we like without having to worry some asshole with a gun might shoot us. Seems like a pretty good balance to me.

Instead of arguing that it can't be done in the rest of the country, why not be willing to accept some reasonable restrictions on gun ownership in exchange for the freedom to not get shot?

Wait... are there ZERO gun deaths in HI?  Because if there are more than zero, then it would seem that HI doesn't actually have the right you claim it does... And if no one is allowed to carry a gun in public, but people are still being shot, wouldn't that point to the fact that there may be other factors at play?

Well, there you go again:  logic.  Whodathunk?

Fishindude

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1809 on: November 02, 2016, 08:56:43 AM »
Can't believe this thread is still alive?

Buy a gun or some ammo today and make America great again !

Gin1984

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1810 on: November 02, 2016, 09:21:28 AM »
At the risk of sounding like I'm defending IN (I'm not...there's plenty wrong with this state), I still don't understand how IN's lack of gun laws is having an impact on Chicago. 

The statement that our firearms laws are "lax", relative to other states, for Indiana residents has merit.  But for Illinois residents, that's completely baseless.  Again, an Illinois resident cannot legally buy any type of firearm in this state without a FFL transfer to IL.  Period.  Sure they can buy them illegally, but that's already illegal....federal law illegal...illegal for every state under all circumstances illegal...punishable by going big-boy jail for a long time illegal.  *FFL transfer is between one federally licensed gun to another, requiring a federal background check when the firearm is picked up by the owner.

I would like to know how tougher IN gun laws will reduce the number of guns available to criminals in Chicago.

This question has been asked many times. There has never been an answer, because it wouldn't work.
There is a simple answer.  People buy in other nearby states and bring the guns in.  Same reason most of the gun violence in Canada is done with guns from the US.  I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1811 on: November 02, 2016, 09:34:14 AM »
At the risk of sounding like I'm defending IN (I'm not...there's plenty wrong with this state), I still don't understand how IN's lack of gun laws is having an impact on Chicago. 

The statement that our firearms laws are "lax", relative to other states, for Indiana residents has merit.  But for Illinois residents, that's completely baseless.  Again, an Illinois resident cannot legally buy any type of firearm in this state without a FFL transfer to IL.  Period.  Sure they can buy them illegally, but that's already illegal....federal law illegal...illegal for every state under all circumstances illegal...punishable by going big-boy jail for a long time illegal.  *FFL transfer is between one federally licensed gun to another, requiring a federal background check when the firearm is picked up by the owner.

I would like to know how tougher IN gun laws will reduce the number of guns available to criminals in Chicago.

This question has been asked many times. There has never been an answer, because it wouldn't work.
There is a simple answer.  People buy in other nearby states and bring the guns in.  Same reason most of the gun violence in Canada is done with guns from the US.  I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

Not legally you can't!!!!!
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JLee

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1812 on: November 02, 2016, 09:41:52 AM »
At the risk of sounding like I'm defending IN (I'm not...there's plenty wrong with this state), I still don't understand how IN's lack of gun laws is having an impact on Chicago. 

The statement that our firearms laws are "lax", relative to other states, for Indiana residents has merit.  But for Illinois residents, that's completely baseless.  Again, an Illinois resident cannot legally buy any type of firearm in this state without a FFL transfer to IL.  Period.  Sure they can buy them illegally, but that's already illegal....federal law illegal...illegal for every state under all circumstances illegal...punishable by going big-boy jail for a long time illegal.  *FFL transfer is between one federally licensed gun to another, requiring a federal background check when the firearm is picked up by the owner.

I would like to know how tougher IN gun laws will reduce the number of guns available to criminals in Chicago.

This question has been asked many times. There has never been an answer, because it wouldn't work.
There is a simple answer.  People buy in other nearby states and bring the guns in.  Same reason most of the gun violence in Canada is done with guns from the US.  I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

How so? I live in NJ.  I have a good friend who's a gun dealer in PA.  He can't even sell me a lower receiver for an AR15, because I could build an AR15 pistol with it (which is illegal in NJ).

PriestTheRunner

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1813 on: November 02, 2016, 09:46:27 AM »
I love how people blanketly say "I could do _____" even though its explicitly illegal.  The ignorance on one side of this issue is absolutely astounding.
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ooeei

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1814 on: November 02, 2016, 09:50:26 AM »
I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

I encourage you to try.  During the background check they require identification, and will not sell to someone without a valid in state ID.

hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1815 on: November 02, 2016, 10:04:32 AM »
People buy in other nearby states and bring the guns in.

Those people are called felons.  Best case scenario they bought from a licensed dealer and falsified their form 4473.  Worst case scenario they bought from an illegal gun seller, which is probably just as easily done in IN as it is IL although I will admit I have no experience buying firearms illegally.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 10:07:56 AM by hoosier »

Gin1984

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1816 on: November 02, 2016, 10:07:58 AM »
I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

I encourage you to try.  During the background check they require identification, and will not sell to someone without a valid in state ID.
Certain states don't require background checks for private sellers.

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hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1817 on: November 02, 2016, 10:14:33 AM »
I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

I encourage you to try.  During the background check they require identification, and will not sell to someone without a valid in state ID.
Certain states don't require background checks for private sellers.

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Try again.  It is already illegal to buy a firearm from a private party out of state without using a FLL transfer.  This has been illegal since 1968.

I guess I could travel to another state, lie to them and tell them I am from their state, buy the firearm, and go back to my state.  In the process of doing so I would be committing a felony though.

PriestTheRunner

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1818 on: November 02, 2016, 10:28:21 AM »
I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

I encourage you to try.  During the background check they require identification, and will not sell to someone without a valid in state ID.
Certain states don't require background checks for private sellers.

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Besides...  I love how you associate the BG check requirement with buying out of state.  You can't buy out of state.  Period.

Quote
How may an unlicensed person receive a firearm in his or her State that he or she purchased from an out–of–State source?

An unlicensed person who is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms may purchase a firearm from an out–of–State source, provided the transfer takes place through a Federal firearms licensee in his or her State of residence.

[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.29]

https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/how-may-unlicensed-person-receive-firearm-his-or-her-state-he-or-she

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 10:37:21 AM by PriestTheRunner »
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1819 on: November 02, 2016, 10:39:24 AM »
I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

I encourage you to try.  During the background check they require identification, and will not sell to someone without a valid in state ID.
Certain states don't require background checks for private sellers.

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True, it wouldn't be all that difficult to do (although it would be costly), but would be a felony.  Granted, even in a state that requires background checks for private sales, someone still CAN do it without much difficulty, it's just illegal as well.

The only way to properly enforce private sale background checks is to create a gun registry, and have the government periodically audit gun owners to ensure they still have the guns they bought and haven't officially sold.  This makes gun owners understandably nervous, as gun laws are frequently shown to be motivated more by politics and feelings than by logic and results.  Adding a registry makes confiscation and prohibition much more feasible.

One compromise to this is to open up the background check system to non FFLs, and allow private citizens to submit potential buyers to the system.  This would allow private citizens to do the same background checks gun stores do, and many of us would probably take advantage of it.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 10:40:56 AM by ooeei »

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1820 on: November 02, 2016, 11:29:23 AM »
I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

I encourage you to try.  During the background check they require identification, and will not sell to someone without a valid in state ID.
Certain states don't require background checks for private sellers.

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Try again.  It is already illegal to buy a firearm from a private party out of state without using a FLL transfer.  This has been illegal since 1968.

I guess I could travel to another state, lie to them and tell them I am from their state, buy the firearm, and go back to my state.  In the process of doing so I would be committing a felony though.

But if we made it so you were committing TWO felonies, I bet that works twice as good.

Right guys?

Right?
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hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1821 on: November 02, 2016, 11:48:38 AM »
I live in NY, I could drive down south and buy guns without an issue that would be illegal in my home state.

I encourage you to try.  During the background check they require identification, and will not sell to someone without a valid in state ID.
Certain states don't require background checks for private sellers.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Try again.  It is already illegal to buy a firearm from a private party out of state without using a FLL transfer.  This has been illegal since 1968.

I guess I could travel to another state, lie to them and tell them I am from their state, buy the firearm, and go back to my state.  In the process of doing so I would be committing a felony though.

But if we made it so you were committing TWO felonies, I bet that works twice as good.

Right guys?

Right?

Wrong.  We should restrict access to firearms for IN residents...no more 30 caliber magazine clips, automatic AK-15's, ghost guns, shoulder things that go up, barrel shrouds, no weapons of war, scary black rifles, none of it.  It doesn't matter that all of these are currently legal there and there has never been a mass shooting and they rank in the top 10 states with the LEAST amount of gun violence.  It doesn't matter than these backwoods rednecks have shown to be responsible with them...I mean...who really needs any of that stuff?  If it could save just 1 life and stuff.  Reasons.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 12:07:48 PM by hoosier »

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1822 on: November 02, 2016, 12:00:50 PM »
^Like.


In related news, I am strongly considering the purchase of an Evil Black Rifle in the next month or two before January.  People may roll their eyes all they want and say "no one is coming for your guns" but they can't say "no one is coming for your AR-15" with a straight face and any credibility.  Source: I'm originally from CT.
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ooeei

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1823 on: November 02, 2016, 01:05:33 PM »
^Like.


In related news, I am strongly considering the purchase of an Evil Black Rifle in the next month or two before January.  People may roll their eyes all they want and say "no one is coming for your guns" but they can't say "no one is coming for your AR-15" with a straight face and any credibility.  Source: I'm originally from CT.

You picked a great year to buy.  There's so much competition and oversupply, you can get a screaming good deal if you look hard enough.  Used ones from forums are also a good option.  Plenty of the people on popular AR-15 websites have buying addictions and are constantly cycling through great guns, getting rid of them after <500 rounds.

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1824 on: November 02, 2016, 01:22:16 PM »
^Like.


In related news, I am strongly considering the purchase of an Evil Black Rifle in the next month or two before January.  People may roll their eyes all they want and say "no one is coming for your guns" but they can't say "no one is coming for your AR-15" with a straight face and any credibility.  Source: I'm originally from CT.

You picked a great year to buy.  There's so much competition and oversupply, you can get a screaming good deal if you look hard enough.  Used ones from forums are also a good option.  Plenty of the people on popular AR-15 websites have buying addictions and are constantly cycling through great guns, getting rid of them after <500 rounds.

I'm thinking a show + cash purchase is the way to go. I have a FOID (IL) so no background check issues here.
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ooeei

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1825 on: November 02, 2016, 02:15:11 PM »
^Like.


In related news, I am strongly considering the purchase of an Evil Black Rifle in the next month or two before January.  People may roll their eyes all they want and say "no one is coming for your guns" but they can't say "no one is coming for your AR-15" with a straight face and any credibility.  Source: I'm originally from CT.

You picked a great year to buy.  There's so much competition and oversupply, you can get a screaming good deal if you look hard enough.  Used ones from forums are also a good option.  Plenty of the people on popular AR-15 websites have buying addictions and are constantly cycling through great guns, getting rid of them after <500 rounds.

I'm thinking a show + cash purchase is the way to go. I have a FOID (IL) so no background check issues here.

I haven't seen too many good deals at shows, but I haven't been to one in awhile.  My local FFL does $15 transfers too, so that helps with keeping shipping/transfer fees in check.

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1826 on: November 02, 2016, 03:06:28 PM »
^Like.


In related news, I am strongly considering the purchase of an Evil Black Rifle in the next month or two before January.  People may roll their eyes all they want and say "no one is coming for your guns" but they can't say "no one is coming for your AR-15" with a straight face and any credibility.  Source: I'm originally from CT.

You picked a great year to buy.  There's so much competition and oversupply, you can get a screaming good deal if you look hard enough.  Used ones from forums are also a good option.  Plenty of the people on popular AR-15 websites have buying addictions and are constantly cycling through great guns, getting rid of them after <500 rounds.

I'm thinking a show + cash purchase is the way to go. I have a FOID (IL) so no background check issues here.

I haven't seen too many good deals at shows, but I haven't been to one in awhile.  My local FFL does $15 transfers too, so that helps with keeping shipping/transfer fees in check.

I'm more concerned with lack of paper trail than getting ever last nickel off the price of the firearm
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1827 on: November 05, 2016, 12:21:09 AM »
Wrong.  We should restrict access to firearms for IN residents...no more 30 caliber magazine clips, automatic AK-15's, ghost guns, shoulder things that go up, barrel shrouds, no weapons of war, scary black rifles, none of it.  It doesn't matter that all of these are currently legal there and there has never been a mass shooting and they rank in the top 10 states with the LEAST amount of gun violence.  It doesn't matter than these backwoods rednecks have shown to be responsible with them...I mean...who really needs any of that stuff?  If it could save just 1 life and stuff.  Reasons.

Finally; someone is thinking of the children!
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Drifterrider

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1828 on: November 07, 2016, 11:13:37 AM »
I love how people blanketly say "I could do _____" even though its explicitly illegal.  The ignorance on one side of this issue is absolutely astounding.

I could do..... means it is possible.  I may do...... means it is legal.  There is a difference.

You will also notice a few posters up the guy who says I can do also mentioned it was illegal.

I can buy a handgun in NY city.  It is illegal for me to do so but then, so is murder.  It happens.

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1829 on: November 07, 2016, 11:48:11 AM »
I love how people blanketly say "I could do _____" even though its explicitly illegal.  The ignorance on one side of this issue is absolutely astounding.

I could do..... means it is possible.  I may do...... means it is legal.  There is a difference.

You will also notice a few posters up the guy who says I can do also mentioned it was illegal.

I can buy a handgun in NY city.  It is illegal for me to do so but then, so is murder.  It happens.

But in this case, pretty sure he Gin was saying there should be a law against it.  Which there already is.  Which I'm 100% Gin didn't know. 
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

ooeei

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1830 on: November 07, 2016, 12:02:02 PM »
^Like.


In related news, I am strongly considering the purchase of an Evil Black Rifle in the next month or two before January.  People may roll their eyes all they want and say "no one is coming for your guns" but they can't say "no one is coming for your AR-15" with a straight face and any credibility.  Source: I'm originally from CT.

You picked a great year to buy.  There's so much competition and oversupply, you can get a screaming good deal if you look hard enough.  Used ones from forums are also a good option.  Plenty of the people on popular AR-15 websites have buying addictions and are constantly cycling through great guns, getting rid of them after <500 rounds.

I'm thinking a show + cash purchase is the way to go. I have a FOID (IL) so no background check issues here.

I haven't seen too many good deals at shows, but I haven't been to one in awhile.  My local FFL does $15 transfers too, so that helps with keeping shipping/transfer fees in check.

I'm more concerned with lack of paper trail than getting ever last nickel off the price of the firearm

In that case, an 80% lower sounds right up your alley.  Haven't done one myself, but they're apparently not too tough.

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1831 on: November 09, 2016, 09:42:52 AM »
Apparently I jumped the gun (heh) on ordering my AR-15 ;)

Doesn't matter, it will be fun to play with anyways.
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hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1832 on: November 09, 2016, 10:26:15 AM »
It will be interesting to see where prices go now.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1833 on: November 09, 2016, 11:53:24 AM »
It will be interesting to see where prices go now.

I hope ammo gets cheap!!!!!
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Lagom

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1834 on: November 09, 2016, 12:04:18 PM »
Gun manufacturers have seen their stock tank so far, probably because a liberal boogeyman is always preferable for business.

hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1835 on: November 09, 2016, 12:21:20 PM »
It will be interesting to see where prices go now.

I hope ammo gets cheap!!!!!

I think that's going to depend a lot on your ZIP code now.  Federal laws aren't likely to have an impact, but MA, CA, NJ, IL, etc may have different plans.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1836 on: November 09, 2016, 12:23:17 PM »
It will be interesting to see where prices go now.

I hope ammo gets cheap!!!!!

I think that's going to depend a lot on your ZIP code now.  Federal laws aren't likely to have an impact, but MA, CA, NJ, IL, etc may have different plans.

Which could presumably go to the Supreme Court which would presumably be 2A friendly.
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hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1837 on: November 09, 2016, 12:24:38 PM »
It will be interesting to see where prices go now.

I hope ammo gets cheap!!!!!

I think that's going to depend a lot on your ZIP code now.  Federal laws aren't likely to have an impact, but MA, CA, NJ, IL, etc may have different plans.

Which could presumably go to the Supreme Court which would presumably be 2A friendly.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Ammo tax being unconstitutional?  I honestly don't know where that line is drawn.

Chris22

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1838 on: November 09, 2016, 12:27:51 PM »
It will be interesting to see where prices go now.

I hope ammo gets cheap!!!!!

I think that's going to depend a lot on your ZIP code now.  Federal laws aren't likely to have an impact, but MA, CA, NJ, IL, etc may have different plans.

Which could presumably go to the Supreme Court which would presumably be 2A friendly.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Ammo tax being unconstitutional?  I honestly don't know where that line is drawn.

I wasn't thinking of a tax, more like a potential restriction driving price up. 

If there's an IL tax, I can just drive to WI.
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1839 on: November 09, 2016, 12:54:23 PM »

Wrong.  We should restrict access to firearms for IN residents...no more 30 caliber magazine clips, automatic AK-15's, ghost guns, shoulder things that go up, barrel shrouds, no weapons of war, scary black rifles, none of it.  It doesn't matter that all of these are currently legal there and there has never been a mass shooting and they rank in the top 10 states with the LEAST amount of gun violence.  It doesn't matter than these backwoods rednecks have shown to be responsible with them...I mean...who really needs any of that stuff?  If it could save just 1 life and stuff.  Reasons.

I can't tell if this one is a joke or serious? The "shoulder things that go up" really got me.

hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1840 on: November 09, 2016, 01:05:32 PM »

Wrong.  We should restrict access to firearms for IN residents...no more 30 caliber magazine clips, automatic AK-15's, ghost guns, shoulder things that go up, barrel shrouds, no weapons of war, scary black rifles, none of it.  It doesn't matter that all of these are currently legal there and there has never been a mass shooting and they rank in the top 10 states with the LEAST amount of gun violence.  It doesn't matter than these backwoods rednecks have shown to be responsible with them...I mean...who really needs any of that stuff?  If it could save just 1 life and stuff.  Reasons.

I can't tell if this one is a joke or serious? The "shoulder things that go up" really got me.

I thought I made the sarcasm extra thick on that one.


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1841 on: November 09, 2016, 03:18:28 PM »

Wrong.  We should restrict access to firearms for IN residents...no more 30 caliber magazine clips, automatic AK-15's, ghost guns, shoulder things that go up, barrel shrouds, no weapons of war, scary black rifles, none of it.  It doesn't matter that all of these are currently legal there and there has never been a mass shooting and they rank in the top 10 states with the LEAST amount of gun violence.  It doesn't matter than these backwoods rednecks have shown to be responsible with them...I mean...who really needs any of that stuff?  If it could save just 1 life and stuff.  Reasons.

I can't tell if this one is a joke or serious? The "shoulder things that go up" really got me.
For those not familiar with the origin of the phrase (and I imagine most of the pro-gun posters here are), Here's a reference

Metric Mouse

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1842 on: November 09, 2016, 06:55:50 PM »
Gun manufacturers have seen their stock tank so far, probably because a liberal boogeyman is always preferable for business.

Umm... source? S&W is still up almost 50% since last year.

Unless you are suggesting that a one-day drop is indicative of a long term market trend?
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1843 on: November 09, 2016, 07:05:37 PM »
Gun manufacturers have seen their stock tank so far, probably because a liberal boogeyman is always preferable for business.

Umm... source? S&W is still up almost 50% since last year.

Unless you are suggesting that a one-day drop is indicative of a long term market trend?

Just fluff, but it was a pretty large one day drop with no other plausible explanation I'm aware of. S&W went up that much under "ZOMG he's gonna take our guns!" Obama. One illustrative article:

http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/654-million-gun-purchases-obama-took-office-91-more-bushs-first-term

I know I've seen lots more along those lines, but too lazy to Google. Regardless, I would think it's rather self-apparent. Gun nuts enthusiasts get scared the big bad Democrats are going to repeal the 2nd amendment and so they go on a buying spree. Seems to happen fairly reliably, but I could be wrong.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1844 on: November 09, 2016, 07:10:06 PM »

Just fluff, but it was a pretty large one day drop with no other plausible explanation I'm aware of. S&W went up that much under "ZOMG he's gonna take our guns!" Obama. One illustrative article:

http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/654-million-gun-purchases-obama-took-office-91-more-bushs-first-term

I know I've seen lots more along those lines, but too lazy to Google. Regardless, I would think it's rather self-apparent. Gun nuts enthusiasts get scared the big bad Democrats are going to repeal the 2nd amendment and so they go on a buying spree. Seems to happen fairly reliably, but I could be wrong.

It does happen reliably; which is why firearm manufacturing companies have been a fantastic investment over the past few years. :D

And since these gun enthusiasts by and large keep their scary black rifles safely secured in their bunkers, there is very little downside to the buying sprees.  I wouldn't mind more affordable ammunition prices though.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 07:21:42 PM by Metric Mouse »
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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1845 on: November 09, 2016, 07:12:34 PM »
I don't mind the buying sprees either, just was making an observation. The alarmism is rather amusing, but I don't fear these people. They are not particularly mustachian, but I suppose we all need our hobbies.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1846 on: November 10, 2016, 08:45:49 AM »

Wrong.  We should restrict access to firearms for IN residents...no more 30 caliber magazine clips, automatic AK-15's, ghost guns, shoulder things that go up, barrel shrouds, no weapons of war, scary black rifles, none of it.  It doesn't matter that all of these are currently legal there and there has never been a mass shooting and they rank in the top 10 states with the LEAST amount of gun violence.  It doesn't matter than these backwoods rednecks have shown to be responsible with them...I mean...who really needs any of that stuff?  If it could save just 1 life and stuff.  Reasons.

I can't tell if this one is a joke or serious? The "shoulder things that go up" really got me.

I thought I made the sarcasm extra thick on that one.

I live in CA, so all the things you quoted can be heard at least once a week on an interview on guns... it's quite disheartening.

hoosier

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1847 on: November 10, 2016, 11:49:30 AM »

Hmmm..... 4% rule for ammo usage?

If only ammo earned compound interest.  Talk about a conflict of interest for a gun enthusiast though.  Shoot 100 rounds now or 108 next year.....hhnnnnggh.

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1848 on: November 10, 2016, 12:22:58 PM »
Cheap ammo...I kid you not...yardsales.  In the past month I purchased .357 hollowpoints 240 total rounds for 15 bucks total (currently priced at a buck a round), .308 ammo 300 rounds for 40 bucks total, a crate of .22 for 25 (something like 500 rounds give or take).  Also purchased a muzzleloader with scope and case for 80 and an old remington 12 gauge for 40.  All the ammo fired fine.  You can usually tell how well it's stored based on the boxes, where you find it etc. 

Also, if you are a hunter, cheaper than dirt in the summer has brand new  ammo for really good prices as well.

ooeei

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Re: Firearms in the home
« Reply #1849 on: November 10, 2016, 12:28:14 PM »
Cheap ammo...I kid you not...yardsales.  In the past month I purchased .357 hollowpoints 240 total rounds for 15 bucks total (currently priced at a buck a round), .308 ammo 300 rounds for 40 bucks total, a crate of .22 for 25 (something like 500 rounds give or take).  Also purchased a muzzleloader with scope and case for 80 and an old remington 12 gauge for 40.  All the ammo fired fine.  You can usually tell how well it's stored based on the boxes, where you find it etc. 

Also, if you are a hunter, cheaper than dirt in the summer has brand new  ammo for really good prices as well.

I suspect over the next few years this will happen more and more.  A quick search on any gun forum will come up with a "here's how much ammo I have" thread where people show off their 100,000+ rounds in their basement/extra bedroom.  Those people don't live forever, and eventually may even decide to downsize.  A Republican president will make them less worried about supply, and a few of them will start to question the wisdom of having $30,000+ worth of ammo in their house.  There's also the non negligible number of people who've been buying up in anticipation of a panic after Hillary was elected, and they'll need to unload stock eventually.  I may keep an eye out for good deals on guns that were bought for similar reasons.