Author Topic: Election irregularities and voter suppression  (Read 4702 times)

Poundwise

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
Election irregularities and voter suppression
« on: November 07, 2024, 04:58:10 AM »
Did you or someone in your family have trouble voting? My son in college requested his absentee ballot twice (NY to IL) and it never arrived (the request and mail dates could be checked on our BOE website.)  A casual survey of about twenty friends revealed four students and one elderly parent did not get their absentees.

Record voter registration and turnout but millions fewer voted. Why?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2024, 05:14:09 AM by Poundwise »

Herbert Derp

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Age: 34
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2024, 05:25:38 AM »
My theory is that many leftists disliked Harris’ centrist platform so much that they refused to vote.

These are the “from the river to the sea”, “nobody is illegal”, “defund the police” crowd. Harris campaigned on supporting Israel, secure borders, and law and order. It’s no wonder the leftists didn’t like her, and many of them probably sat the election out in disgust.

Bernie Sanders seems to agree:
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/11/06/2024-election-results-live-coverage-updates-analysis/bernie-sanders-election-response-00187980

So does The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/11/kamal-harris-gaza-democrats-arab-american-voters-donald-trump
« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 05:42:32 AM by Herbert Derp »

neo von retorch

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5531
  • Location: SE PA
    • Fi@retorch - personal finance tracking
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2024, 05:26:13 AM »
Record voter registration and turnout but millions fewer voted. Why?

On the one hand, I'm against conspiracy theories without overwhelming evidence!

And millions of votes have not yet been counted. While lots of sites estimate "95-98%" of votes have been counted in most states, I believe those really are just estimates. Additionally, California alone has something like 9 million votes that have not yet been added to any tallies.

I'm in a state that does not begin to count absentee / mail-in ballots until 7AM on election day. According to my state web site, my ballot still shows I've returned it, but not that they've counted it. They received it on Oct. 15th.

But I am feeling a bit like I don't know if it will ever be counted...

ChpBstrd

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8371
  • Location: A poor and backward Southern state known as minimum wage country
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2024, 06:31:26 AM »
Just a note but isn't it funny how Trump's win extinguished all the talk in media / social media about rigged elections and voter fraud?

It's like when the state in Orwell's 1984 went to war with another country and changed the history to say they'd always been at war with that country. Well, elections have always been fair and that's why Trump won.

Raenia

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2968
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2024, 07:30:18 AM »
My DH had a hard time voting - he had apparently been removed from the rolls without his knowledge. It took a call to our local voter center, a trip to our previous address, and some extra paperwork to get his vote in.

Now we'll know to double check our registrations every year, even if everything went fine last time.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 25624
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2024, 08:45:52 AM »
I'm not aware of any real evidence at all of voter fraud.  Until there is, the election is over.  Trump won.  Move on.  Don't spend four years trying to mirror the ridiculous shit-show that was the total Republican denial of the last election.

dandarc

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5959
  • Age: 42
  • Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2024, 08:47:25 AM »
Just a note but isn't it funny how Trump's win extinguished all the talk in media / social media about rigged elections and voter fraud?

It's like when the state in Orwell's 1984 went to war with another country and changed the history to say they'd always been at war with that country. Well, elections have always been fair and that's why Trump won.
I mean, that talk was mainly coming from Trump and his people. No need for it to continue. Class from the left, conspiracies and hate from the right. As it has always been.


GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 25624
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2024, 09:10:00 AM »
I'm not aware of any real evidence at all of voter fraud.  Until there is, the election is over.  Trump won.  Move on.  Don't spend four years trying to mirror the ridiculous shit-show that was the total Republican denial of the last election.

Easy to say when it wasn't your own vote that was disenfranchised.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/11/04/georgia-mail-absentee-ballots-cobb-county-voting/407adcf4-9afb-11ef-b90e-a2320192900f_story.html
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2024/11/06/many-texan-students-did-not-receive-their-mail-in-ballots/
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/government/politics-elections/2024/11/07/absentee-ballot-issues-force-some-students-drive
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/politics/elections/st-louis-county-man-concerned-about-absentee-ballots/63-442d7465-f831-4674-b2c1-173e6da447b1
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/06/us/politics/montgomery-county-pa-absentee-ballots.html

Just a small sampling.

The whole US system is set up to disenfranchise voters.  That's the purpose of the electoral college system.  No use getting upset about it just because the side you support lost.  Texas was going Republican no matter what - these votes never mattered there.  Georgia though is a maybe in that it's a pretty close state.  Are there enough absentee ballots under question here to actually swing the vote anywhere?

dandarc

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5959
  • Age: 42
  • Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2024, 09:11:38 AM »
yeah - that's not fraud per-se. I know someone who sent her ballot back by fedex because it arrived too late to get it there on time.

Raenia

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2968
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2024, 09:14:54 AM »
Complaining about systemic disenfranchisement is not the same thing as denying the election results. We can be upset about disenfranchisement even if we believe it had no impact on the outcome.

FIRE@50

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 582
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2024, 04:58:15 PM »
Did you or someone in your family have trouble voting? My son in college requested his absentee ballot twice (NY to IL) and it never arrived (the request and mail dates could be checked on our BOE website.)  A casual survey of about twenty friends revealed four students and one elderly parent did not get their absentees.

Record voter registration and turnout but millions fewer voted. Why?

Your son tried to vote in two different states? That's illegal, right?

dandarc

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5959
  • Age: 42
  • Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2024, 05:07:57 PM »
Did you or someone in your family have trouble voting? My son in college requested his absentee ballot twice (NY to IL) and it never arrived (the request and mail dates could be checked on our BOE website.)  A casual survey of about twenty friends revealed four students and one elderly parent did not get their absentees.

Record voter registration and turnout but millions fewer voted. Why?

Your son tried to vote in two different states? That's illegal, right?
Votes in NY, school in Illinois is what I read.

ATtiny85

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2024, 06:28:50 PM »
Did you or someone in your family have trouble voting? My son in college requested his absentee ballot twice (NY to IL) and it never arrived (the request and mail dates could be checked on our BOE website.)  A casual survey of about twenty friends revealed four students and one elderly parent did not get their absentees.

Record voter registration and turnout but millions fewer voted. Why?

Your son tried to vote in two different states? That's illegal, right?

No, just twice in one state apparently.

dandarc

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5959
  • Age: 42
  • Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2024, 07:01:47 PM »
Did you or someone in your family have trouble voting? My son in college requested his absentee ballot twice (NY to IL) and it never arrived (the request and mail dates could be checked on our BOE website.)  A casual survey of about twenty friends revealed four students and one elderly parent did not get their absentees.

Record voter registration and turnout but millions fewer voted. Why?

Your son tried to vote in two different states? That's illegal, right?

No, just twice in one state apparently.
What would you do if your requested ballot didn't show up a reasonable amount of time after it was supposedly sent?

Poundwise

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2024, 08:13:10 PM »
Did you or someone in your family have trouble voting? My son in college requested his absentee ballot twice (NY to IL) and it never arrived (the request and mail dates could be checked on our BOE website.)  A casual survey of about twenty friends revealed four students and one elderly parent did not get their absentees.

Record voter registration and turnout but millions fewer voted. Why?

Your son tried to vote in two different states? That's illegal, right?

No, just twice in one state apparently.
What would you do if your requested ballot didn't show up a reasonable amount of time after it was supposedly sent?

Correct. Home residence in NY, college in IL.  Requested ballot in early October, when it didn't arrive two weeks later, he called the Board of Elections and they say they sent it out the same day. They sent him another, but the second one didn't arrive either. He's been asking around among his friends, and though not many requested absentee (from different states), none of those who did, received their ballots.

rantk81

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 973
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2024, 03:35:14 AM »
This election wasn't really even close.
Were there some scattered "irregularities and suppression"?  I'm sure there was, and it sucks if you or people you know were affected by it.
But I doubt it was a huge or wide-spread as to have affected the outcome overall.  I want the Democrats to be the adult in the room, and not whine, falsely, about a "stolen election" for 4 years, like the Republicans did.
Right or wrong, a lot of people were pissed off at the increase in costs of living over the Biden term, and I think they would have blamed the Democrats in the voting-booth, no matter who was on the ticket.
We have to live with the consequences of this for the foreseeable future, and hope, and work to make sure the union can survive the incoming shitstorms.

neo von retorch

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5531
  • Location: SE PA
    • Fi@retorch - personal finance tracking
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2024, 05:31:38 AM »
This election wasn't really even close.
Were there some scattered "irregularities and suppression"?  I'm sure there was, and it sucks if you or people you know were affected by it.
But I doubt it was a huge or wide-spread as to have affected the outcome overall.

Mostly agree but it was close. 30k votes in WI, 82k in MI, 138k in PA.

And each of those states still have an estimated ~1-2% uncounted. That's considered a very close race (electoral college wise.) That accounts for 44 votes and would've landed Harris 270.

My PA absentee vote still has not counted.

EDIT: Also as the popular votes continue to come in, mostly from the West Coast states, the popular vote gap has closed.

Harris has received the 4th most popular votes of any election (behind Biden, Trump 2024, Trump 2020.) She's at just about 70m, while Trump is at about the same 74m he received in 2020.

Clinton had roughly 3m more than Trump in 2016, a bit under 66m.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2024, 06:00:31 AM by neo von retorch »

ATtiny85

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2024, 05:32:45 AM »
Did you or someone in your family have trouble voting? My son in college requested his absentee ballot twice (NY to IL) and it never arrived (the request and mail dates could be checked on our BOE website.)  A casual survey of about twenty friends revealed four students and one elderly parent did not get their absentees.

Record voter registration and turnout but millions fewer voted. Why?

Your son tried to vote in two different states? That's illegal, right?

No, just twice in one state apparently.
What would you do if your requested ballot didn't show up a reasonable amount of time after it was supposedly sent?

Correct. Home residence in NY, college in IL.  Requested ballot in early October, when it didn't arrive two weeks later, he called the Board of Elections and they say they sent it out the same day. They sent him another, but the second one didn't arrive either. He's been asking around among his friends, and though not many requested absentee (from different states), none of those who did, received their ballots.

Sounds like some systematic issue in Illinois. Were these requests using a campus address? I could certainly see some bad apple of a student working in the campus mail chain being malicious. Gross incompetence seems unlikely unless there are other things not being delivered.

I guess it could be a bad character in the USPS side of things, but that feels quite risky.

dandarc

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5959
  • Age: 42
  • Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2024, 11:00:50 AM »
I find it kind of odd ATtine85 & FIRE@50 assumed OP's son was trying to do something illegal as a first reaction to what was written. Why do you think that is?

ATtiny85

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1184
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2024, 02:14:06 PM »
I find it kind of odd ATtine85 & FIRE@50 assumed OP's son was trying to do something illegal as a first reaction to what was written. Why do you think that is?

I did it as a retort for fun, since I thought it was somewhat clear from the post that the kid was in another state. Though I will say I was not sure whether IL or NY was home. That was a tad ambiguous to me.

Since the thread title has voter suppression in it I figured it was fair game to poke fun in any direction with any set of assumptions I wanted.

The OP assumed something illegal had been done to their kid and others. Why do you think that is?

skp

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
  • Location: oh
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2024, 03:04:33 PM »
OP I assume you informed your Board of Elections.  That sounds unacceptable.   
I've worked as a poll worker in Ohio.  People who request absentee ballots who for some reason didn't fill them out and return them can still vote in person on election day provisionally.  Their ballot will get checked out and be counted after it is affirmed that they didn't already vote.  I realize your son would have had to make a HUGE effort to do this and it's not meant to be an excuse.  Just curious are all these people you personally know about college students?
I'd make sure the state Board of Elections knows about this also.
As an aside- I tried to send cookies to my kids when they were in college. The post office wouldn't deliver them. They were going to have to take 2 buses to pick them up.  Maybe it's something with college mail.

 
 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2024, 03:07:41 PM by skp »

Fru-Gal

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2024, 03:32:21 PM »
Quote
Why do you think that is?

Double standards much?

caracarn

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1975
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2024, 08:53:25 PM »
I am a Voting Location Manager in Ohio and have run elections for about 5 years now so jumping in here.

My first point of advice to anyone who is concerned, is if you truly are, take the 3 hours it will take in any state to get trained as a poll worker.   It will likely end any of your concerns.

To the OP absentee ballots not showing up is not abnormal and not evidence of anything except the postal system loses mail.  I saw one story of someone finding absentee ballots in a storm drain and it was like a dozen, not some vast haul, and the investigation found it was likely someone in the neighborhood who took them out of people's mailboxes and dumped them in the drain.   Given the widespread belief that college students would lean Democrat IF, and it's a big if, something nefarious happened it's likely someone locally refusing to deliver the ballots to lower Democrat votes.   The solution to that is to monitor your ballot and deal with not getting it far ahead of the election, or participate in in person early voting which is pretty common in most states.  As a poll worker I cannot vote on Election Day.  I do not work in my precinct, so I must either do absentee or early vote.   Never had a problem.   I can monitor my absentee ballot for all parts and if it gets lost in the mail (takes more than 3-4 days after it says it was mailed) I file another application online.   They will send you multiple ballots because they know they will only count one so sending you multiples does not cause any issues. 

To the point by someone above on the Ohio process, yes if you request an absentee you can vote a provisional ballot on election day.  You cannot show up with your absentee ballot and ask to vote on the equipment.   I have no way of knowing the above, if you asked for multiple and already sent one in and the one in hand is just another one, so to avoid that you must follow systems that are all manually verified.  I have no reason to believe all states are not similar.   

There has never been any evidence of voter fraud at scale to impact the results of an election.   This is the key point.   There are incidents that happen.   The fact that we know about them verifies the system works and should increase your confidence not lessen it in much the same way that you know murderers are in jail should increase your confidence that police catch murderers not make you concerned that the crime rate is rising.  We caught the fraud.   Also the stories of people voting who should not, are I would contend 100% people not understanding the system.   As a poll worker it is my job to defer to the fact you should be able to vote than to find reasons you cannot.   So if you insist that you are registered and have the proper ID (in Ohio that is now basically a driver's license, state ID or passport) if you are not in the rolls I let you vote provisionally.   The people on the news claiming that their friend who is ineligible voted are those who think that because I let their friend fill out a ballot they voted.   There are multiple checks on the back end at the BOE to verify that vote before it is counted.   If they cannot find the voter registered anywhere in the state that ballot is not counted.   The misinformation that exists is that people just assume because they filled out a ballot it is counted.  It is not.  It is only counted if we are 100% sure it is for a registered voter and that voter has not voted another way. 

On the college student front, yes it is illegal to vote in two states.  This applies to retirees who have homes in Florida and somewhere else too and there are cases where those have been prosecuted.  As a voter you pick one.  Your student applying for absentee ballots in NY and IL is technically OK but if they had returned both and voted for president on both that would be an issue.   Since elections are run by states there is no national database to cross check but if they are caught it is illegal because they are casting multiple votes. 

Happy to answer any other questions, but stop worrying about massive fraud.   It does not exist and is propaganda designed to impact integrity of the system and those of us who do this hard work and adminster it really do not appreciate the distrust all this lying has caused.

iris lily

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6220
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2024, 06:45:14 AM »
Caracarn, I think you are right about provisional ballots. People don’t understand how those work.

I could theoretically go to every polling place I could reach, multiple polling places in one day and fill out a provisional ballot. I could ‘ vote” often, in other words, but that doesn’t mean those ballots will be counted.

DH was an election judge for years, he just stopped during the Covid years, but he is back at it. He used to do it in the urban environment where people moved house every five minutes. Now we’re out in a rural area where the population is more stable in their residencies and things are calmer, far fewer provisional ballots.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2024, 06:47:19 AM by iris lily »

neo von retorch

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5531
  • Location: SE PA
    • Fi@retorch - personal finance tracking
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2024, 07:07:41 AM »
Record voter registration and turnout but millions fewer voted. Why?

There are still over 6 million uncounted votes in CA alone.

According to Bloomberg the current vote count is 75.6m Trump, 71.7m Harris. That plus uncounted votes (just from CA, not including WA and OR which have a bunch, too) is at least 153.3 million. There were just over 155.4 million votes cast for Biden and Trump in 2020.

On top of that, absentee / mail-in voting was very popular in 2020, but many people returned to in-person voting in 2024 (with a mix of early and election day). When 153 million people are voting and many are in-person, perceived turnout is going to be absolutely massive. Consider that in 2016 only 136 million votes were cast for presidential candidates including ~7.5m for third parties.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2024, 07:09:40 AM by neo von retorch »

skp

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
  • Location: oh
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2024, 07:21:02 AM »
They just Had a segment on the local news about a significant amount of voters casting a ballot and skipping voting for president. Double haters? I also overheard a hairdresser when I was getting my hair cut who said she was getting a ration of grief from everyone because she refused to vote. She said she didn’t feel she knew enough and wasn’t motivated to find out
.

Raenia

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2968
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2024, 08:57:05 AM »
To the point by someone above on the Ohio process, yes if you request an absentee you can vote a provisional ballot on election day.  You cannot show up with your absentee ballot and ask to vote on the equipment.   I have no way of knowing the above, if you asked for multiple and already sent one in and the one in hand is just another one, so to avoid that you must follow systems that are all manually verified.  I have no reason to believe all states are not similar.  

This is definitely not the case everywhere. I'm not a poll worker, but I did exactly that this year (in PA). Requested and received a mail-in ballot, then decided to vote in person instead, surrendered my mail-in to the election judge, and voted normally. If I had not brought my mail-in to turn in, I would have had to vote a provisional ballot, but since I did turn it in, it was a normal in-person ballot. I can only assume that means that PA will not send a second mail-in ballot if the first gets lost, or they have some other way of tracking them.

Louise

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 221
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2024, 09:03:42 AM »
They just Had a segment on the local news about a significant amount of voters casting a ballot and skipping voting for president. Double haters? I also overheard a hairdresser when I was getting my hair cut who said she was getting a ration of grief from everyone because she refused to vote. She said she didn’t feel she knew enough and wasn’t motivated to find out
.

In my state, the Dem Senator (woman, if that matters) had 135K more votes than Harris.

Poundwise

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2024, 11:29:40 AM »
I am a Voting Location Manager in Ohio and have run elections for about 5 years now so jumping in here.

My first point of advice to anyone who is concerned, is if you truly are, take the 3 hours it will take in any state to get trained as a poll worker.   It will likely end any of your concerns.


I have been a poll worker for a decade. The problem wasn't with my son, or his mailroom (he lives in an apartment), or our county BOE. But possibly somewhere on the route from NY to IL.

Poundwise

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2024, 11:30:23 AM »
I'm not claiming anything about countrywide fraud, but it does exist. Should we have let this person keep doing this year after year?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/colorado-postal-carrier-and-a-friend-accused-of-forging-stolen-mail-ballots-to-test-voting-security/ar-AA1tDNUw

Poundwise

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2024, 11:36:01 AM »

On the college student front, yes it is illegal to vote in two states.  This applies to retirees who have homes in Florida and somewhere else too and there are cases where those have been prosecuted.  As a voter you pick one.  Your student applying for absentee ballots in NY and IL is technically OK but if they had returned both and voted for president on both that would be an issue.   Since elections are run by states there is no national database to cross check but if they are caught it is illegal because they are casting multiple votes. 


My son did not apply for absentee ballots in two states. He applied, legally, for his ballot from ONE STATE. And when it did not arrive, he asked the county BOE for another, which was sent. The envelope for the previous one was cancelled, so it would not have been counted. Both were sent, neither arrived.

We sent him a care package of Halloween candy which arrived before the election.

We know the law very well. I double checked his account with the BOE and the ballots were requested as he said. Anybody implying that we attempted to break the law is insulting my intelligence, or is just being malicious.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2024, 11:38:24 AM by Poundwise »

caracarn

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1975
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2024, 01:09:32 PM »
Poundwise, I was providing information and stating IF actions were taken what would or would not be venturing into illegal.   Had I been in that situation I would have selected a jurisdiction I was eligible to vote in and pursued that location only not asked for a ballot in both so that is where our thought processes differ, that is all.  Looking briefly at the MSN article, these people were caught so the system worked.   It does not show fraud in the system, which is what all the claims are, it show some people make stupid choices.  I do not take this as an example of fraud existing.   Someone trying to test the system is certainly a far outlier and showing they are still prosecuted deters this from becoming anything to be concerned over.  And on your third response, the mail system can break down anywhere.  With a lost ballot you have no idea where it was lost so not sure how you can be assured his apartment mailroom or anywhere outside of the BOE was not the point of failure.  The only data point you have is the BOE sent all the ballots requested.  What happened after that is unknown. 

skp

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
  • Location: oh
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2024, 02:35:19 PM »
Personally, after having 2 absentee ballots "gone missing" and not being able to vote, I'd change my voter's registration to the state where I am currently going to college. He is actually living in an apartment at college and would be considered a resident of that state.   College students can choose either- vote from their former homes or where they are going to school, but that incurs a risk. I'd rather vote where I have the choice of absentee or in person. That way I can vote in person if my absentee ballot doesn't appear.
 
If I remember right-  I just didn't vote when I was in college.  I wonder where most college students register.  I know there is a big push at colleges to register voters.

caracarn

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1975
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2024, 03:18:59 PM »
I'd rather vote where I have the choice of absentee or in person. That way I can vote in person if my absentee ballot doesn't appear.

This is the best process because with early voting you should certainly be able to get there in person in the last week or two before Election Day if the ballot is lost in the mail.

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11991
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2024, 06:49:34 PM »
I am a Voting Location Manager in Ohio and have run elections for about 5 years now so jumping in here.

My first point of advice to anyone who is concerned, is if you truly are, take the 3 hours it will take in any state to get trained as a poll worker.   It will likely end any of your concerns.


I have been a poll worker for a decade. The problem wasn't with my son, or his mailroom (he lives in an apartment), or our county BOE. But possibly somewhere on the route from NY to IL.
I will say that my sister mailed me an envelope from PA to CA, and it took more than 2 weeks for me to get it.  It was paperwork for my stepfather's death - so, my sibs couldn't get anything until I filed my paperwork.

Eventually, she emailed me the info for his financial advisor, and I filled everything out and faxed it over.  I got the package THE NEXT DAY.  Something was up with the post office.

I will say, that I keep hearing grumblings of voter fraud from the left.  And, we should absolutely check.  We had recounts in 2000, 2020, and if there is any doubt - recount!  We owe it to the voters to do that, and we owe it to everyone to count their votes.  (Also, I don't trust Musk as far as I can throw him.)

But I still think the US is a racist, sexist country, and I'm not surprised a bunch of people didn't vote for prez.

They just Had a segment on the local news about a significant amount of voters casting a ballot and skipping voting for president. Double haters? I also overheard a hairdresser when I was getting my hair cut who said she was getting a ration of grief from everyone because she refused to vote. She said she didn’t feel she knew enough and wasn’t motivated to find out
.

In my state, the Dem Senator (woman, if that matters) had 135K more votes than Harris.
Is she black?

caracarn

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1975
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2024, 07:48:41 PM »
I am a Voting Location Manager in Ohio and have run elections for about 5 years now so jumping in here.

My first point of advice to anyone who is concerned, is if you truly are, take the 3 hours it will take in any state to get trained as a poll worker.   It will likely end any of your concerns.


I have been a poll worker for a decade. The problem wasn't with my son, or his mailroom (he lives in an apartment), or our county BOE. But possibly somewhere on the route from NY to IL.
I will say that my sister mailed me an envelope from PA to CA, and it took more than 2 weeks for me to get it.  It was paperwork for my stepfather's death - so, my sibs couldn't get anything until I filed my paperwork.

Eventually, she emailed me the info for his financial advisor, and I filled everything out and faxed it over.  I got the package THE NEXT DAY.  Something was up with the post office.

I will say, that I keep hearing grumblings of voter fraud from the left.  And, we should absolutely check.  We had recounts in 2000, 2020, and if there is any doubt - recount!  We owe it to the voters to do that, and we owe it to everyone to count their votes.  (Also, I don't trust Musk as far as I can throw him.)

But I still think the US is a racist, sexist country, and I'm not surprised a bunch of people didn't vote for prez.

They just Had a segment on the local news about a significant amount of voters casting a ballot and skipping voting for president. Double haters? I also overheard a hairdresser when I was getting my hair cut who said she was getting a ration of grief from everyone because she refused to vote. She said she didn’t feel she knew enough and wasn’t motivated to find out
.

In my state, the Dem Senator (woman, if that matters) had 135K more votes than Harris.
Is she black?

I mail things to my parents in FL and they routinely take 3 weeks or more or never get there.   I'm all investigating any real issues.  What I am not for is this constant hand wringing.   You may also find it intriguing that many prosecuted cases of voter fraud that are uncovered are conservatives violating the laws more than liberals.   As long as we keep spouting of unverified talking points of "a friend told me" we will never get anywhere on any discussion.   Again, find HARD data, then talk with people. 

Poundwise

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2024, 08:50:08 PM »
Poundwise, I was providing information and stating IF actions were taken what would or would not be venturing into illegal.   Had I been in that situation I would have selected a jurisdiction I was eligible to vote in and pursued that location only not asked for a ballot in both so that is where our thought processes differ, that is all. 
We happen to live in a swing House district. My son's vote mattered and he should have received his absentee ballots. He did not ask for ballots in two different jurisdictions. He asked for a ballot from his home address, and as was his right if the ballot did not arrive, asked for a second ballot from the same location. I never said he asked for two different ballots from different states. That was the malicious implication of another poster.


Quote
Looking briefly at the MSN article, these people were caught so the system worked.   It does not show fraud in the system, which is what all the claims are, it show some people make stupid choices.  I do not take this as an example of fraud existing.   Someone trying to test the system is certainly a far outlier and showing they are still prosecuted deters this from becoming anything to be concerned over. 
You take them at their word that they were trying to "test the system" 12 times? No, they were trying to commit fraud and got caught.

Quote
And on your third response, the mail system can break down anywhere.  With a lost ballot you have no idea where it was lost so not sure how you can be assured his apartment mailroom or anywhere outside of the BOE was not the point of failure.  The only data point you have is the BOE sent all the ballots requested.  What happened after that is unknown.
There is no apartment mailroom. They have mailboxes. You have been making a lot of assumptions.

Allow me to make an assumption. In my opinion, it was somebody in the USPS causing ballots to be lost somehow.

Why is it so unthinkable that somebody from within the system could have been taking absentee ballots?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 09:05:46 PM by Poundwise »

Louise

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 221
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2024, 12:36:44 PM »
I am a Voting Location Manager in Ohio and have run elections for about 5 years now so jumping in here.

My first point of advice to anyone who is concerned, is if you truly are, take the 3 hours it will take in any state to get trained as a poll worker.   It will likely end any of your concerns.


I have been a poll worker for a decade. The problem wasn't with my son, or his mailroom (he lives in an apartment), or our county BOE. But possibly somewhere on the route from NY to IL.
I will say that my sister mailed me an envelope from PA to CA, and it took more than 2 weeks for me to get it.  It was paperwork for my stepfather's death - so, my sibs couldn't get anything until I filed my paperwork.

Eventually, she emailed me the info for his financial advisor, and I filled everything out and faxed it over.  I got the package THE NEXT DAY.  Something was up with the post office.

I will say, that I keep hearing grumblings of voter fraud from the left.  And, we should absolutely check.  We had recounts in 2000, 2020, and if there is any doubt - recount!  We owe it to the voters to do that, and we owe it to everyone to count their votes.  (Also, I don't trust Musk as far as I can throw him.)

But I still think the US is a racist, sexist country, and I'm not surprised a bunch of people didn't vote for prez.

They just Had a segment on the local news about a significant amount of voters casting a ballot and skipping voting for president. Double haters? I also overheard a hairdresser when I was getting my hair cut who said she was getting a ration of grief from everyone because she refused to vote. She said she didn’t feel she knew enough and wasn’t motivated to find out
.

In my state, the Dem Senator (woman, if that matters) had 135K more votes than Harris.
Is she black?

No, it's Amy Klobachar. She's pretty popular among moderates and some Republicans too though. The person running against her was ridiculous too.

Herbert Derp

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Age: 34
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2024, 12:39:11 PM »
What do you guys think about the oddly popular conspiracy theory that Elon Musk used StarLink to hack votes?

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 25624
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2024, 12:46:47 PM »
What do you guys think about the oddly popular conspiracy theory that Elon Musk used StarLink to hack votes?

How would that even work?

Herbert Derp

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Age: 34
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2024, 12:55:53 PM »
How would that even work?

Honesty, I don’t know, because the voting machines aren’t connected to the Internet or even a local network. Also, encryption.

Nevertheless, the StarLink vote hacking conspiracy theory has become extremely popular:
https://www.newsweek.com/starlink-musk-trump-election-conspiracy-theory-spreads-online-1983444
« Last Edit: November 13, 2024, 12:59:32 PM by Herbert Derp »

ChpBstrd

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8371
  • Location: A poor and backward Southern state known as minimum wage country
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2024, 08:34:44 PM »
What do you guys think about the oddly popular conspiracy theory that Elon Musk used StarLink to hack votes?
Well he did use X to hack votes. The platform is tilted to expose people to more right-wing content.

neo von retorch

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5531
  • Location: SE PA
    • Fi@retorch - personal finance tracking
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2024, 08:19:55 AM »
2020
Code: [Select]
Joe Biden       81,283,501 51.3%
Donald Trump    74,223,975 46.8%
(155.5 million)

2024
Code: [Select]
Donald Trump     76,811,815
Kamala Harris    73,660,736
(150.4 million so far)

WA, OR, CA, CO, and NY still have 3-13% votes uncounted. 2 million in CA alone.

Just Joe

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7766
  • Location: In the middle....
  • Teach me something.
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2024, 09:17:13 AM »
I can't speak to the condition of mail delivery anywhere but where I live and where my parents live. Both districts are understaffed. My parent says another district near their's is the same.

When I visit my parents I sometimes see mail trucks still running around at 9PM at night. In my town they make up for the backlog on Sundays.

I feel like the feds are starving the post office for funding which might assist hiring more manpower. Kind of goes along with what Trump's crew was doing last term.

oldtoyota

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2024, 09:22:40 AM »
1. Yes, I had trouble voting. The first ballot box was taped over. I drive 30 min away to another ballot box after looking up a location on a hard-to-read non-web-friendly website. Many others do not have cars or would not go to the trouble to locate and drive to another location.

2. Today is November 15th, and I received an email today that my vote had been counted today.

3. I know of two young adults who did not receive their mail-in ballots as soon as expected. A third young adult asked their parent to pick them up from college to drive them back home to vote. Did they all request the ballots too late, or is something wrong? I don't know.




simonsez

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1689
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2024, 04:21:42 PM »
I can't speak to the condition of mail delivery anywhere but where I live and where my parents live. Both districts are understaffed. My parent says another district near their's is the same.

When I visit my parents I sometimes see mail trucks still running around at 9PM at night. In my town they make up for the backlog on Sundays.

I feel like the feds are starving the post office for funding which might assist hiring more manpower. Kind of goes along with what Trump's crew was doing last term.
So you're saying Biden's crew is acting similarly toward the post office as Trump's crew did?

If you just mean the post office is understaffed and underfunded, okay I agree but I'd say that goes back to a time well before Trump was a politician.  USPS was in the red for the entirety of the 60s, 70s, and 80s.  Every single year it operated at a loss and has done so again since about 2005 onward.  PAEA* was 2006, which if you look at the legislation it's hard to call it necessarily "bad" or "good", just no doubt that it was pecuniarily onerous on the USPS.  Biden passed legislation^ which removed the requirement to have the pension pre-funded, which has made the costs lower but kicks other issues down the road.  Email is a newish phenomenon which coincides with the decline of first class mail from its peak in 2001 and also the first class postage is governed to never outpace inflation (which is a good idea IMO).

I'm okay with the USPS both existing and operating at a loss, same way I feel about public transit.  I do hope it stays around and I also hope that vote-counting can occur in a timely manner.  It's weird to me states finish their vote counting at such different paces, but maybe it's always been that way and we're just more aware of it now?  It leaves the door open to speculation.  It's been breezy lately, not a good look.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Accountability_and_Enhancement_Act
^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Service_Reform_Act_of_2022

Just Joe

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7766
  • Location: In the middle....
  • Teach me something.
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2024, 02:05:42 PM »
I went back and read up a bit better. I thought the problem mostly started with Louis DeJoy. I see that it did not. Much longer standing problem.

Also: "The USPS Fairness Act, introduced in 2021 with bipartisan support by Peter DeFazio in the U.S. House and by Steve Daines and Brian Schatz in the U.S. Senate, would undo substantial parts of the PAEA.[17] It eventually passed the Senate as part of the Postal Service Reform Act of 2022."

So someone in power saw the problems and did something about it. I'm sure it isn't perfect though.

Herbert Derp

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Age: 34
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2025, 06:10:09 AM »
This is all over Reddit right now:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14303395/elon-musk-donald-trump-conspiracy-theory-voter-fraud-computers.html

Apparently Trump just admitted that Elon Musk rigged the election by hacking voting machines:
Quote from: Donald Trump
He knows those computers better than anybody. All those computers, those vote-counting computers, and we ended up winning Pennsylvania like in a landslide. So, it was pretty good, it was pretty good. So, thank you to Elon.

Link to video:
https://youtu.be/zKKt90I_eUk&t=3m44s

Anyone buying this new conspiracy?

Fru-Gal

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
Re: Election irregularities and voter suppression
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2025, 10:11:14 AM »
I think he’s made statements like that before, so it’s not new to me anyway. There was a Starlink conspiracy after the election as well (hacking voting machines via Starlink, IIRC).

More funny/tragic to me is how Elon continues to use his child X as a human shield during these rallies.