Poll

I voted:

For Trump and am happy about it.
23 (8.3%)
For Trump and regret it.
2 (0.7%)
For Clinton and am happy about it.
185 (66.5%)
For Clinton and regret it.
1 (0.4%)
For 3rd party candidate and am happy about it.
48 (17.3%)
For 3rd party candidate and regret it.
3 (1.1%)
I'm not eligible and therefore did not vote.
16 (5.8%)

Total Members Voted: 278

Voting closed: March 02, 2017, 05:19:57 PM

Author Topic: Election follow up poll  (Read 15029 times)

radram

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #150 on: February 03, 2017, 08:55:40 AM »
OK so I'm going to place the blame for a Trump win squarely on Joe Biden's shoulders for refusing to run. Bad Joe bad!

I bet he would have ran if he could. Losing a wife and daughter, followed by a son some decades later. Wow. I can understand why he didn't have it in him to run. I would not wish that agony on my worst enemy.
I can imagine that being VP was enough of a taste of the crap a president has to deal with on a daily basis that he may have been turned off of the job.

He has floated a 2020 run and is staying active.  He has said the death of his son was too recent for him to focus on the race, and he knew based on how the primaries were going that if he got on a debate state and someone started baiting him with "you are running because of your son" or "you shouldn't run because you should be mourning your son.", he would likely walk across the stage and beat the ever loving **** out of them.  Which would be awesome TV, but probably not good for election chances.


I guess time will tell. I am not sure I can vote for a 78 year old. I still very much like and respect him, but being 82, or 86 and being prez? I just don't know.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #151 on: February 03, 2017, 09:03:00 AM »
OK so I'm going to place the blame for a Trump win squarely on Joe Biden's shoulders for refusing to run. Bad Joe bad!

I bet he would have ran if he could. Losing a wife and daughter, followed by a son some decades later. Wow. I can understand why he didn't have it in him to run. I would not wish that agony on my worst enemy.
I can imagine that being VP was enough of a taste of the crap a president has to deal with on a daily basis that he may have been turned off of the job.

He has floated a 2020 run and is staying active.  He has said the death of his son was too recent for him to focus on the race, and he knew based on how the primaries were going that if he got on a debate state and someone started baiting him with "you are running because of your son" or "you shouldn't run because you should be mourning your son.", he would likely walk across the stage and beat the ever loving **** out of them.  Which would be awesome TV, but probably not good for election chances.


I guess time will tell. I am not sure I can vote for a 78 year old. I still very much like and respect him, but being 82, or 86 and being prez? I just don't know.

against Trump or Pence?  Absolutely.  Just need to pick a good VP.

golden1

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #152 on: February 03, 2017, 09:29:39 AM »
Yeah, I could get behind something like Biden/Booker or Biden/Gillibrand. 

deadlymonkey

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #153 on: February 03, 2017, 09:32:42 AM »
Yeah, I could get behind something like Biden/Booker or Biden/Gillibrand.

I am really into Franken right now.  He has been smart, worked very hard for his constituents and isn't afraid to go toe to toe with the Republicans.  All great VP characteristics.

Glenstache

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #154 on: February 03, 2017, 10:13:43 AM »
Yeah, I could get behind something like Biden/Booker or Biden/Gillibrand.

I am really into Franken right now.  He has been smart, worked very hard for his constituents and isn't afraid to go toe to toe with the Republicans.  All great VP characteristics.
And he's good enough, and smart enough, and - gosh darnit- people like him.

(but yes, he has proven himself a worthy advocate)
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Unique User

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #155 on: February 03, 2017, 10:27:50 AM »
Yeah, I could get behind something like Biden/Booker or Biden/Gillibrand.

I am really into Franken right now.  He has been smart, worked very hard for his constituents and isn't afraid to go toe to toe with the Republicans.  All great VP characteristics.

I think Franken would make an awesome VP, maybe not with Biden though.  I would have voted for Biden enthusiastically last year.  But in order to win in 2020 I think we need a young charismatic front runner in the likes of JFK, Bill Clinton or Obama.  Someone to fire up the independents.   

radram

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #156 on: February 03, 2017, 11:45:39 AM »
OK so I'm going to place the blame for a Trump win squarely on Joe Biden's shoulders for refusing to run. Bad Joe bad!

I bet he would have ran if he could. Losing a wife and daughter, followed by a son some decades later. Wow. I can understand why he didn't have it in him to run. I would not wish that agony on my worst enemy.
I can imagine that being VP was enough of a taste of the crap a president has to deal with on a daily basis that he may have been turned off of the job.

He has floated a 2020 run and is staying active.  He has said the death of his son was too recent for him to focus on the race, and he knew based on how the primaries were going that if he got on a debate state and someone started baiting him with "you are running because of your son" or "you shouldn't run because you should be mourning your son.", he would likely walk across the stage and beat the ever loving **** out of them.  Which would be awesome TV, but probably not good for election chances.


I guess time will tell. I am not sure I can vote for a 78 year old. I still very much like and respect him, but being 82, or 86 and being prez? I just don't know.

against Trump or Pence?  Absolutely.  Just need to pick a good VP.

My comment was specifically with regard to Biden. He would be 78 in 2020. Anyone in their 70's is getting up there for the roll of president of the free world, and would factor into my decision. This past election, Trump and Clinton were a wash (69 and 70). Not a litmus test for me, just a factor.

I think we the people dropped the ball a little bit with Reagan and we got lucky. In hindsight, his mental state certainly was in question toward the end of his second term. He could have made some disastrous decisions. Reagan was a few days from 70 when he first became president. Trump is right there. For a second term for Trump, age would definitely be a factor for me. Could you imagine the second term of Reagan combined with Trump of today?

While I disagree with much of what Trump says, I completely discount anyone's claims regarding his mental state today. I do not see that as a fair criticism of his policies or actions, and does nothing to try to get the public to change their mind about him. I hope I can always say that for his entire presidency.

Just Joe

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #157 on: February 08, 2017, 08:08:24 AM »
I don't feel like arguing the point.  But the "my way or the highway" sentiment of liberals right now IS part of the sentiment that got Trump elected.  Bicker over whether or not it's bullying or not, I think liberals are now in the practice of shouting down and demonizing all dissent or disagreement in such a scorched earth way that I don't think does them any favors. 

Headed home soon, feel free to argue more but I'm not engaging.

Maybe this is regional but aren't both parties guilty of "my way or the highway"? Whoever is in power sets the rules just as Trump is reversing everything Obama accomplished - no matter what the liberals think.

I'm in a very red state (in more ways than one). Maybe the perception is different in a liberal state?

mtn

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #158 on: February 08, 2017, 08:13:41 AM »
I don't feel like arguing the point.  But the "my way or the highway" sentiment of liberals right now IS part of the sentiment that got Trump elected.  Bicker over whether or not it's bullying or not, I think liberals are now in the practice of shouting down and demonizing all dissent or disagreement in such a scorched earth way that I don't think does them any favors. 

Headed home soon, feel free to argue more but I'm not engaging.

Maybe this is regional but aren't both parties guilty of "my way or the highway"? Whoever is in power sets the rules just as Trump is reversing everything Obama accomplished - no matter what the liberals think.

I'm in a very red state (in more ways than one). Maybe the perception is different in a liberal state?

I'm from the same state as Chris22.

My view: Nationally, both Democrats and Republicans have had a "my way or the highway" mentality. Dems force a horrible healthcare bill down the throats of everyone, they can't even get a single republican vote. Repubs refuse to vote on Supreme Court. Its been going both ways. Now we're getting it again, but the Repubs have all the power.

On the state level, I'm so pissed off at the Democrats  (actually, just THE Democrat) that I will likely "blindly" vote a straight republican ticket in every local and state election until THE Democrat is gone. The Republicans here have tried to compromise with the Democrats; the Democrats have been unwilling to compromise and it is going to ruin our state. It is hard to not let that leak into a national viewpoint for me.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #159 on: February 08, 2017, 08:29:41 AM »
I don't feel like arguing the point.  But the "my way or the highway" sentiment of liberals right now IS part of the sentiment that got Trump elected.  Bicker over whether or not it's bullying or not, I think liberals are now in the practice of shouting down and demonizing all dissent or disagreement in such a scorched earth way that I don't think does them any favors. 

Headed home soon, feel free to argue more but I'm not engaging.

Maybe this is regional but aren't both parties guilty of "my way or the highway"? Whoever is in power sets the rules just as Trump is reversing everything Obama accomplished - no matter what the liberals think.

I'm in a very red state (in more ways than one). Maybe the perception is different in a liberal state?

I'm from the same state as Chris22.

My view: Nationally, both Democrats and Republicans have had a "my way or the highway" mentality. Dems force a horrible healthcare bill down the throats of everyone, they can't even get a single republican vote. Repubs refuse to vote on Supreme Court. Its been going both ways. Now we're getting it again, but the Repubs have all the power.


Lets take a stroll down memory lane shall we:
Prior to submission:
1.The first summit about the need for national health care was held at the White House in early 2009.http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/health/jan-june09/healthcare_03-05.html   Citizens from several walks of life came together including health care workers, law makers, lobbyists, physicians and many more groups!
2.Between March/2009 and May/2009 there were no less than 17 different meetings between members of Congress discussing how the Affordable Care Act should look. (http://www.finance.senate.gov/issue/?id=32be19bd-491e-4192-812f-f65215c1ba65 )
3.During the summer of 2009 a bi-partisan committee made up of three Democrats and three Republicans met 31 times for a period of over 60 hours to develop what would ultimately become the Affordable Care Act. (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/politics/supreme-court-health-timeline/index.html)

In committee:
1.In July, 2009 The Senate’s Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee passed The Affordable Health Choices Act. This bill contained more than 160 amendments all added by the Republican members of the committee and all were approved.   (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/politics/supreme-court-health-timeline/index.html)    In fact, this bill remained in committee for over a month.  The 160 amendments to the bill will live in infamy as a bill that was “marked up” or changed by amendments as one of the largest changes in history.
2.Between July and December 2009 the bill was referred to several committees and a great deal of negotiation and compromise between the two parties continued during these meetings.
3.Each committee makes a decision about whether to table the bill, which means the bill is basically dead, or they can pass the bill, or they can hold hearings and further discuss the bill.  The bill which would ultimately become the Affordable Care Act was passed by all the committees that reviewed it in the House and the Senate and sent to the full House and Senate for a vote.

There was significant negotiation on the ACA with republican ideas being incorporated into the bill.  The fact that none voted for final passage was a political stunt.  There was never any my way or highway.

Point of Order.  Obama came into the presidency hoping to bridge the divide and work with the Republicans.  What was McConnell's first statement?  "Our primary goal is to make him a one-term president" and for 8 years took every legally allowed step to obstruct and REFUSE to work with the Ds.

Just Joe

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #160 on: February 08, 2017, 08:36:13 AM »
Yep me too. Which is why gay marriage bans still in place in some states is utterly ridiculous. And same sex couples having to travel to get married proves preferential treatment for hetero couples still exist. Of course if they refused them extra time to travel it just reinforces the preference towards heterosexual couples.

Keep in mind that some of the same states that ban same-sex marriage were also the last states to ban interracial marriage. And going forward focusing so much ire on gay marriage will seem just as stupid as racism does today.

What absolutely blows my mind is the religious element in all these types of topics. Jesus was the original hippie. The guy loved everyone and accepted everyone. I can't help but think Jesus would have had an attitude of "live and let live". Love each other no matter what kind of wrapper we are born with (gender, ethnicity) - and take care of each other.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 08:50:44 AM by Tasty Pinecones »

Just Joe

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #161 on: February 08, 2017, 08:38:59 AM »
Who exactly is this shadowy figure you're claiming has control of 'the media', academia, and Hollywood?

Mr. or Ms. Enlightenment...

Education is important.

mtn

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #162 on: February 08, 2017, 09:52:53 AM »
I don't feel like arguing the point.  But the "my way or the highway" sentiment of liberals right now IS part of the sentiment that got Trump elected.  Bicker over whether or not it's bullying or not, I think liberals are now in the practice of shouting down and demonizing all dissent or disagreement in such a scorched earth way that I don't think does them any favors. 

Headed home soon, feel free to argue more but I'm not engaging.

Maybe this is regional but aren't both parties guilty of "my way or the highway"? Whoever is in power sets the rules just as Trump is reversing everything Obama accomplished - no matter what the liberals think.

I'm in a very red state (in more ways than one). Maybe the perception is different in a liberal state?

I'm from the same state as Chris22.

My view: Nationally, both Democrats and Republicans have had a "my way or the highway" mentality. Dems force a horrible healthcare bill down the throats of everyone, they can't even get a single republican vote. Repubs refuse to vote on Supreme Court. Its been going both ways. Now we're getting it again, but the Repubs have all the power.



There was significant negotiation on the ACA with republican ideas being incorporated into the bill.  The fact that none voted for final passage was a political stunt.  There was never any my way or highway.

Point of Order.  Obama came into the presidency hoping to bridge the divide and work with the Republicans.  What was McConnell's first statement?  "Our primary goal is to make him a one-term president" and for 8 years took every legally allowed step to obstruct and REFUSE to work with the Ds.

Your opinion. I think it was not a political stunt--I think it was voting no on a very bad act--unless, of course, it was designed to break the system, in which case it was great.

I do agree with your McConnell statement though. He needs to leave, now more than ever.

Lagom

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #163 on: February 08, 2017, 10:23:17 AM »
Your opinion. I think it was not a political stunt--I think it was voting no on a very bad act--unless, of course, it was designed to break the system, in which case it was great.

I do agree with your McConnell statement though. He needs to leave, now more than ever.

How is a highly detailed list of resources proving a massive bipartisan effort an "opinion"? o.O

Now claiming it is a "very bad act" that "was designed to break the system" on the other hand...

mtn

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #164 on: February 08, 2017, 10:37:52 AM »
Your opinion. I think it was not a political stunt--I think it was voting no on a very bad act--unless, of course, it was designed to break the system, in which case it was great.

I do agree with your McConnell statement though. He needs to leave, now more than ever.

How is a highly detailed list of resources proving a massive bipartisan effort an "opinion"? o.O


I think that no republicans voting for it described as a political stunt was an opinion. I've proposed things at work, worked hard on them, offered my suggestions, and then "voted" against them even though they were my idea because they weren't right. Just because there was bipartisan effort doesn't mean it was good or fair.

I think it was a horrible act and wrote to my representatives (Dem and Rep) to vote against it. It had some excellent parts to it, for sure, but overall it was horrible in my opinion (although very good for me--but I didn't need any help). And I am not, nor was I then, against universal healthcare. I was just against ACA.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #165 on: February 13, 2017, 01:32:58 AM »
Your opinion. I think it was not a political stunt--I think it was voting no on a very bad act--unless, of course, it was designed to break the system, in which case it was great.

I do agree with your McConnell statement though. He needs to leave, now more than ever.

How is a highly detailed list of resources proving a massive bipartisan effort an "opinion"? o.O


I think that no republicans voting for it described as a political stunt was an opinion. I've proposed things at work, worked hard on them, offered my suggestions, and then "voted" against them even though they were my idea because they weren't right. Just because there was bipartisan effort doesn't mean it was good or fair.

I think it was a horrible act and wrote to my representatives (Dem and Rep) to vote against it. It had some excellent parts to it, for sure, but overall it was horrible in my opinion (although very good for me--but I didn't need any help). And I am not, nor was I then, against universal healthcare. I was just against ACA.
Right? If my input were asked about the ACA (as a theoretical congressperson) I probably would have had all sorts of ideas. I might have even had one good enough to amend the bill. Doesn't mean that the bill was good over all, or that 150 of the other amendments made by other persons were actually making the bill better, in my hypothetical eyes.
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Lagom

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #166 on: February 13, 2017, 10:25:09 AM »
Perhaps you two are correct, but all I see in your posts is speculation, not actual proof of anything. Also, we know the ACA is a GOP originated idea in the first place, which immediately makes your conclusions suspect, absent any additional data points.

mtn

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #167 on: February 13, 2017, 10:50:17 AM »
Perhaps you two are correct, but all I see in your posts is speculation, not actual proof of anything. Also, we know the ACA is a GOP originated idea in the first place, which immediately makes your conclusions suspect, absent any additional data points.

And that is why I said things like "I think" and "my opinion".

We can't get data points unless all the congressmen who voted against it stated that it was a political stunt, and not because it was a bad act. I'm sure there was at least one (and probably a lot more) that liked it but voted against it because of politicking, but out of 218 Republicans in Congress at the time, 217 voted against it and 1 abstained from voting. I draw my own conclusions, and you must do the same--I really don't care if they're different as long as they're informed, but we won't have any real data points for such a subjective conversation.

Gin1984

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #168 on: February 13, 2017, 11:48:43 AM »
Perhaps you two are correct, but all I see in your posts is speculation, not actual proof of anything. Also, we know the ACA is a GOP originated idea in the first place, which immediately makes your conclusions suspect, absent any additional data points.

And that is why I said things like "I think" and "my opinion".

We can't get data points unless all the congressmen who voted against it stated that it was a political stunt, and not because it was a bad act
. I'm sure there was at least one (and probably a lot more) that liked it but voted against it because of politicking, but out of 218 Republicans in Congress at the time, 217 voted against it and 1 abstained from voting. I draw my own conclusions, and you must do the same--I really don't care if they're different as long as they're informed, but we won't have any real data points for such a subjective conversation.
Would you consider multiple GOP leadership comments about how government insurance would cause them to lose elections to be evidence that their votes against it were political in nature not against the idea itself?

Metric Mouse

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #169 on: February 13, 2017, 12:06:05 PM »
Perhaps you two are correct, but all I see in your posts is speculation, not actual proof of anything. Also, we know the ACA is a GOP originated idea in the first place, which immediately makes your conclusions suspect, absent any additional data points.

And that is why I said things like "I think" and "my opinion".

We can't get data points unless all the congressmen who voted against it stated that it was a political stunt, and not because it was a bad act
. I'm sure there was at least one (and probably a lot more) that liked it but voted against it because of politicking, but out of 218 Republicans in Congress at the time, 217 voted against it and 1 abstained from voting. I draw my own conclusions, and you must do the same--I really don't care if they're different as long as they're informed, but we won't have any real data points for such a subjective conversation.
Would you consider multiple GOP leadership comments about how government insurance would cause them to lose elections to be evidence that their votes against it were political in nature not against the idea itself?
Would they lose elections because its a bad idea and their constituents don't vote for people who support bad ideas?
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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GuitarStv

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #170 on: February 13, 2017, 12:25:37 PM »
Perhaps you two are correct, but all I see in your posts is speculation, not actual proof of anything. Also, we know the ACA is a GOP originated idea in the first place, which immediately makes your conclusions suspect, absent any additional data points.

And that is why I said things like "I think" and "my opinion".

We can't get data points unless all the congressmen who voted against it stated that it was a political stunt, and not because it was a bad act
. I'm sure there was at least one (and probably a lot more) that liked it but voted against it because of politicking, but out of 218 Republicans in Congress at the time, 217 voted against it and 1 abstained from voting. I draw my own conclusions, and you must do the same--I really don't care if they're different as long as they're informed, but we won't have any real data points for such a subjective conversation.
Would you consider multiple GOP leadership comments about how government insurance would cause them to lose elections to be evidence that their votes against it were political in nature not against the idea itself?
Would they lose elections because its a bad idea and their constituents don't vote for people who support bad ideas?

It's pretty evident that good ideas are not important to the electorate.  See [[Election of Donald Trump]].

Metric Mouse

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #171 on: February 13, 2017, 01:39:56 PM »
Perhaps you two are correct, but all I see in your posts is speculation, not actual proof of anything. Also, we know the ACA is a GOP originated idea in the first place, which immediately makes your conclusions suspect, absent any additional data points.

And that is why I said things like "I think" and "my opinion".

We can't get data points unless all the congressmen who voted against it stated that it was a political stunt, and not because it was a bad act
. I'm sure there was at least one (and probably a lot more) that liked it but voted against it because of politicking, but out of 218 Republicans in Congress at the time, 217 voted against it and 1 abstained from voting. I draw my own conclusions, and you must do the same--I really don't care if they're different as long as they're informed, but we won't have any real data points for such a subjective conversation.
Would you consider multiple GOP leadership comments about how government insurance would cause them to lose elections to be evidence that their votes against it were political in nature not against the idea itself?
Would they lose elections because its a bad idea and their constituents don't vote for people who support bad ideas?

It's pretty evident that good ideas are not important to the electorate.  See [[Election of Donald Trump]].
Well then we must content ourselves when our representatives support good ideas and oppose bad ones, even if they only do so for political reasons.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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Re: Election follow up poll
« Reply #172 on: February 13, 2017, 05:03:50 PM »
Perhaps you two are correct, but all I see in your posts is speculation, not actual proof of anything. Also, we know the ACA is a GOP originated idea in the first place, which immediately makes your conclusions suspect, absent any additional data points.
And that is why I said things like "I think" and "my opinion".

We can't get data points unless all the congressmen who voted against it stated that it was a political stunt, and not because it was a bad act
. I'm sure there was at least one (and probably a lot more) that liked it but voted against it because of politicking, but out of 218 Republicans in Congress at the time, 217 voted against it and 1 abstained from voting. I draw my own conclusions, and you must do the same--I really don't care if they're different as long as they're informed, but we won't have any real data points for such a subjective conversation.
Would you consider multiple GOP leadership comments about how government insurance would cause them to lose elections to be evidence that their votes against it were political in nature not against the idea itself?
Would they lose elections because its a bad idea and their constituents don't vote for people who support bad ideas?

It's pretty evident that good ideas are not important to the electorate.  See [[Election of Donald Trump]].
Well then we must content ourselves when our representatives support good ideas and oppose bad ones, even if they only do so for political reasons.
See: [[confirmation of Betsy DeVos]]
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