DST sucks balls.

[GuitarStv]

Fuck DST.

(As a parent of a child who doesn't understand why he randomly had to go to bed an hour earlier and then get up an hour earlier this week.)

Why don't you just change the clocks in the morning?  Then in the evening point to the clock and tell him it's bedtime

lol

[RetiredAt63]

Ontario Hydro has its time of use summer rates from May to October, and winter rates from November to April.  The change is based on changes in peak use over the seasons.  So why do we do the DST change so out of phase?  It doesn't match our energy use, so any savings to be gained in summer and winter are probably lost in weird spring and fall times.

It is nice to have the longer afternoons, but I hate being back to full dark when I get up.

[Pigeon]

DST fills me with happiness.

[cautiouspessimist]

I have been an hour late to work every day this week.*

*Technically, I've not really been late, but I have been arriving an hour later than normal.

Seriously, can we just...you know...not?

[Papa Mustache]

I actually love it.  I don't love the change itself, but I love an extra hour of being able to do stuff outdoors after work.  (Hell, it wish they'd do it in the winter to try to optimize after work daylight hours.)

THIS!

I have to work inside much of the time so I don't care whether it is dark or light during work hours. After work is a different situation. I would give my left -choose body part- for a bit more daylight after work all winter.

Instead it's more or less light when I go to work and dark when I come home at 5-ish. I call winter time the dark, muddy season. Don't dare step off the concrete b/c everything is muddy and its dark anytime I have free time. :(

I need a detached garage and enough space I can build a projects... That would make winter a happier season for me.

Instead I go home and wind up on the couch watching streaming TV too much and getting fat and/or lazy.

This week with summer time I'm already many time more productive in the evening. Cleaned house last night after work, cleaned the garage, played with the kids and dog, and rode my bike.

[Papa Mustache]

I was responding to Jamesqf's insinuation that those of us who enjoy DST more than non-DST are dumb enough to think there are actually more hours of sunlight in the day because of DST :)

I can't speak for you, of course, but it does appear that there are a lot of people who really do think that.

Well, 1/4 of Americans think the sun orbits the earth, so I'm sure some think that.  But nobody on this forum.

source: http://time.com/7809/1-in-4-americans-thinks-sun-orbits-earth/

That's really sad...

Part of my recent education has included the realization that a larger than previously expected portion of population is NUTS and downright uneducated.

I used to believe that this was a tiny portion of the population and that an intelligent person could see them or hear them coming.

Nope.... ;)

[mrpercentage]

It has thrown off all my financial shows.
I can't listen to Squawkbox on my drive home, drop in on Fast Money when I wake up, and now I have to record Mad Money.

Listen world-- Arizona has been smart about this for a while. Quit DST already. Trading is hard enough sleeping while the market is open. You mess with my financial news and I have to stop. I have been resorting to some podcasts on missed stuff

[dramaman]

I love daylight savings time. Love the extra light in the evening. What I can't stand are people who don't know the different acronyms for properly designating timezone AND the observance of daylight saving or standard time. CST does not mean just Central time, it means Central STANDARD (non-daylight savings) Time, which will always be an hour earlier than CDT - Central DAYLIGHT Time. I had one person announce a meeting at 1 PM CST in the summer and was absolutely clueless (not to mention irritated) when I pointed out that 1 PM CST is actually 2 PM CDT.

[RetiredAt63]

That person needs to do more crossword puzzles.  Time zones and standard/daylight saving are consistent clues.  ;-)  Seriously.

I love daylight savings time. Love the extra light in the evening. What I can't stand are people who don't know the different acronyms for properly designating timezone AND the observance of daylight saving or standard time. CST does not mean just Central time, it means Central STANDARD (non-daylight savings) Time, which will always be an hour earlier than CDT - Central DAYLIGHT Time. I had one person announce a meeting at 1 PM CST in the summer and was absolutely clueless (not to mention irritated) when I pointed out that 1 PM CST is actually 2 PM CDT.

[Kris]

I actually love it.  I don't love the change itself, but I love an extra hour of being able to do stuff outdoors after work.  (Hell, it wish they'd do it in the winter to try to optimize after work daylight hours.)

THIS!

I have to work inside much of the time so I don't care whether it is dark or light during work hours. After work is a different situation. I would give my left -choose body part- for a bit more daylight after work all winter.

Instead it's more or less light when I go to work and dark when I come home at 5-ish. I call winter time the dark, muddy season. Don't dare step off the concrete b/c everything is muddy and its dark anytime I have free time. :(

I need a detached garage and enough space I can build a projects... That would make winter a happier season for me.

Instead I go home and wind up on the couch watching streaming TV too much and getting fat and/or lazy.

This week with summer time I'm already many time more productive in the evening. Cleaned house last night after work, cleaned the garage, played with the kids and dog, and rode my bike.

I feel the same way.  I wish they would just leave it at DST all year round.

[GuitarStv]

It's back!

[Boofinator]

Thanks, DST, for sucking my balls.

[Philociraptor]

It's back!

Was just starting to see some sunlight during my morning drive. So much for that! High noon comes at 1:39 pm now >_<

[driftwood]

I would also like not changing clocks at all year-round. I lived in AZ and it was pretty nice getting to ignore DST. The change is artificial and jarring.

For all the other aspects of it, businesses could adjust hours as needed to match what people are up to. If a sunnier/darker morning/evening changes when your customers want to be there spending money, adjust your hours to match. It's a shame we've built a system where that kind of flexibility is difficult and sometimes impossible.

[Papa bear]

It’s so much better than regular time!  Welcome back!  I’ve missed you! 

Plus, if you are FIRE, the damn clock doesn’t matter.  Just get up and go to bed with the sun / your own circadian rhythm. Who cares what time it is? 

I understand if you’re a silly clock slave though. Plus my kids schedules are wonky.


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[MasterStache]

I'll vote for any Presidential candidate who petitions to stop fucking with the clocks ( :

[Boofinator]

Since I covered the other two current threads on DST, I'll chime in again here. For those who want to keep DST all year, it would be no different than just getting up an hour earlier all year. Save us all from the logical inconsistencies and elect to keep standard time but get up an hour earlier (and petition your workplace to start an hour earlier, if this is a concern).

[Philociraptor]

Since I covered the other two current threads on DST, I'll chime in again here. For those who want to keep DST all year, it would be no different than just getting up an hour earlier all year. Save us all from the logistical inconsistencies and elect to keep standard time but get up an hour earlier (and petition your workplace to start an hour earlier, if this is a concern).

Fucking yes. Make noon solar noon again!

[Papa bear]

Since I covered the other two current threads on DST, I'll chime in again here. For those who want to keep DST all year, it would be no different than just getting up an hour earlier all year. Save us all from the logistical inconsistencies and elect to keep standard time but get up an hour earlier (and petition your workplace to start an hour earlier, if this is a concern).

My problem is with doing loud outside work.  No one wants my table saw, compressor, and nail guns at 630 or 7.  But 730/8 is acceptable.  And then I get another hour of “daylight” to crank through my projects on the back end without anyone being concerned that it’s 8pm.

So, as a selfish person who is only making an internet argument, back to you! Can’t you accommodate my tools at 630am??? =)

Plus, like I said in another thread, if you’re not a clock slave like most working people, and what we all are, or aspire to be (FIRE) then the time doesn’t matter.  Just wake up or go to bed when you want.

DST for the win!




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[dragoncar]

Since I covered the other two current threads on DST, I'll chime in again here. For those who want to keep DST all year, it would be no different than just getting up an hour earlier all year. Save us all from the logistical inconsistencies and elect to keep standard time but get up an hour earlier (and petition your workplace to start an hour earlier, if this is a concern).

Fucking yes. Make noon solar noon again!

This is discriminatory against fat states

[Boofinator]

Since I covered the other two current threads on DST, I'll chime in again here. For those who want to keep DST all year, it would be no different than just getting up an hour earlier all year. Save us all from the logistical inconsistencies and elect to keep standard time but get up an hour earlier (and petition your workplace to start an hour earlier, if this is a concern).

My problem is with doing loud outside work.  No one wants my table saw, compressor, and nail guns at 630 or 7.  But 730/8 is acceptable.  And then I get another hour of “daylight” to crank through my projects on the back end without anyone being concerned that it’s 8pm.

So, as a selfish person who is only making an internet argument, back to you! Can’t you accommodate my tools at 630am??? =)

Plus, like I said in another thread, if you’re not a clock slave like most working people, and what we all are, or aspire to be (FIRE) then the time doesn’t matter.  Just wake up or go to bed when you want.

DST for the win!




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My counter would be that people will adapt to the new standard, since they've already adapted to the old standard. Next thing you know, people will be complaining about your table saw (or even the sunlight) at 8:00, and wanting more evening sunlight for recreation, and the solution will be adapting a new daylight saving time that pushes clocks forward two hours during the summer. But then the inevitable backlash from people who can't stand to change clocks twice a year, etc. etc.

In my mind, if it's daylight you can do what you please. My city has an ordinance that prohibits excessive noise from 10pm to 6am. What does your city's ordinance state? If it's unreasonable, consider petitioning your elected leaders.

[Papa bear]

Since I covered the other two current threads on DST, I'll chime in again here. For those who want to keep DST all year, it would be no different than just getting up an hour earlier all year. Save us all from the logistical inconsistencies and elect to keep standard time but get up an hour earlier (and petition your workplace to start an hour earlier, if this is a concern).

My problem is with doing loud outside work.  No one wants my table saw, compressor, and nail guns at 630 or 7.  But 730/8 is acceptable.  And then I get another hour of “daylight” to crank through my projects on the back end without anyone being concerned that it’s 8pm.

So, as a selfish person who is only making an internet argument, back to you! Can’t you accommodate my tools at 630am??? =)

Plus, like I said in another thread, if you’re not a clock slave like most working people, and what we all are, or aspire to be (FIRE) then the time doesn’t matter.  Just wake up or go to bed when you want.

DST for the win!




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My counter would be that people will adapt to the new standard, since they've already adapted to the old standard. Next thing you know, people will be complaining about your table saw (or even the sunlight) at 8:00, and wanting more evening sunlight for recreation, and the solution will be adapting a new daylight saving time that pushes clocks forward two hours during the summer. But then the inevitable backlash from people who can't stand to change clocks twice a year, etc. etc.

In my mind, if it's daylight you can do what you please. My city has an ordinance that prohibits excessive noise from 10pm to 6am. What does your city's ordinance state? If it's unreasonable, consider petitioning your elected leaders.

I honesty don’t see any personal benefit either way anymore.  I go to bed and get up based more on the sun than a clock.

But when I was a wage and clock slave, I did prefer dst.  I hated winters where you go to work in the dark, and get home in the dark. At least when the clock changed, it forced everything to move up and I could enjoy my post work evenings again.  And gaining an extra hour of light post work was much better than an hour pre work where it was spent in the shower or the car.




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[Philociraptor]

Fucking yes. Make noon solar noon again!

This is discriminatory against fat states

Well generally only a small slice of each time zone enjoys solar noon at 12 pm, but that's beside the point. That slice should be in the center of the time zone.

[Boofinator]

But when I was a wage and clock slave, I did prefer dst.  I hated winters where you go to work in the dark, and get home in the dark. At least when the clock changed, it forced everything to move up and I could enjoy my post work evenings again.  And gaining an extra hour of light post work was much better than an hour pre work where it was spent in the shower or the car.

I agree. I start work as early in the day as possible, and over my last 20 years of work started at 5:00, 5:00, 6:30, 6:00, and 6:30. The option is available if people choose to work earlier hours. Businesses would respond if that is the general will of the people.

[GuitarStv]

I don't really care which one you pick, but pick one and stick with it.  My dog doesn't know how to set her clock back or forward . . . so in the fall we all get up an hour earlier for several weeks until she figures it out.  And in the spring she's like "WTF people, you're getting up at the wrong time again" and fights to stay in as we're heading off to work.

[lizzzi]

I don't really care which one you pick, but pick one and stick with it.  My dog doesn't know how to set her clock back or forward . . . so in the fall we all get up an hour earlier for several weeks until she figures it out.  And in the spring she's like "WTF people, you're getting up at the wrong time again" and fights to stay in as we're heading off to work.

+1

[dragoncar]

Fucking yes. Make noon solar noon again!

This is discriminatory against fat states

Well generally only a small slice of each time zone enjoys solar noon at 12 pm, but that's beside the point. That slice should be in the center of the time zone.

Centrist nonsense

[Philociraptor]

Fucking yes. Make noon solar noon again!

This is discriminatory against fat states

Well generally only a small slice of each time zone enjoys solar noon at 12 pm, but that's beside the point. That slice should be in the center of the time zone.

Centrist nonsense

That's me! I'm also a firm believer that congressional districts should be algorithmicly generated to maximize compactness. Commie scum, I know.

[Boofinator]

Fucking yes. Make noon solar noon again!

This is discriminatory against fat states

Well generally only a small slice of each time zone enjoys solar noon at 12 pm, but that's beside the point. That slice should be in the center of the time zone.

Centrist nonsense

That's me! I'm also a firm believer that congressional districts should be algorithmicly generated to maximize compactness. Commie scum, I know.

I'm onboard with leaving people out of the congressional districting process (other than to set up a bipartisan algorithm for such a cause). Gerrymandering should join Elbridge Gerry's name into the obscurity of history books.

[Papa bear]

I think everyone hates DST because you “lose” that hour of sleep, making you irrational and irritable.  But when it switches back to standard time, omg! I got sleep! This must be the best thing ever!

I’m still fully on the DST all the time train.




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[dragoncar]

Fucking yes. Make noon solar noon again!

This is discriminatory against fat states

Well generally only a small slice of each time zone enjoys solar noon at 12 pm, but that's beside the point. That slice should be in the center of the time zone.

Centrist nonsense

That's me! I'm also a firm believer that congressional districts should be algorithmicly generated to maximize compactness. Commie scum, I know.

So the sun wouldn’t be overhead at noon in each congressional district.  This will lead to widespread disenfranchisement of people who have to vote in the dark

[SunnyDays]

I love DST, but I guess it all depends where you live.  In Canada where I am, winter days are so short and cold, that long summer evenings are the only compensation for toughing out November - March.  I imagine that the closer to the equator you are, the less it matters.  Although dark at 8  PM wouldn't thrill me even if the winter is warm(er), because what can you do in the dark?

[GuitarStv]

Goddammit.  Why is this still a thing???

[Kris]

I love DST, and would love for it to become the new year-round 'standard' time. There is a bill moving through Congress, so maybe it will finally become a thing. Not holding my breath, though.

[turketron]

Ugh, yeah. I honestly don't care which time we use, but switching is stupid- just pick Daylight or Standard and stick with it.

[SunnyDays]

I love DST too and would be fine with it being year round.  But I don't really care about the switch much - I mean, I'm retired so my sleep pattern is pretty flexible.

[frugalnacho]

I love DST, and would love for it to become the new year-round 'standard' time. There is a bill moving through Congress, so maybe it will finally become a thing. Not holding my breath, though.

It's so asinine though.  It's all arbitrary and doesn't give us any extra light, just makes everyone wake up an hour earlier to adhere to some preset rigid schedule.  Why not just make double daylight saving time, or maybe even triple?  Get 3 extra hours of every evening for the low cost of waking up 3 hours earlier and making international time coordination needlessly complicated.

[Kris]

I love DST, and would love for it to become the new year-round 'standard' time. There is a bill moving through Congress, so maybe it will finally become a thing. Not holding my breath, though.

It's so asinine though.  It's all arbitrary and doesn't give us any extra light, just makes everyone wake up an hour earlier to adhere to some preset rigid schedule.  Why not just make double daylight saving time, or maybe even triple?  Get 3 extra hours of every evening for the low cost of waking up 3 hours earlier and making international time coordination needlessly complicated.

Right. But it's all arbitrary. My point is, between DST and Standard Time, I much prefer DST. And those are the only likely options "the government" will every choose between, so...

[GuitarStv]

Generally I'm a pretty reasonable guy . . . but I'd be sorely tempted to vote for Donald Trump as president of Canada if he promised to abolish DST (maybe Mexico could pay for the costs associated with it?).

[turketron]

Right. But it's all arbitrary. My point is, between DST and Standard Time, I much prefer DST. And those are the only likely options "the government" will every choose between, so...

Yup it's all arbitrary, so let's split the difference and switch the clocks by 30 minutes, and then just stay there! There are other half hour time zones out there...

[GuitarStv]

Right. But it's all arbitrary. My point is, between DST and Standard Time, I much prefer DST. And those are the only likely options "the government" will every choose between, so...

Yup it's all arbitrary, so let's split the difference and switch the clocks by 30 minutes, and then just stay there! There are other half hour time zones out there...

While we're making things more sensible, can we move to a base 10 time system?  WTF is the point of 12 hrs, 60 minutes, 60 seconds?

Gimme 10 hrs a day, 10 minutes an hour, 10 seconds a minute.  A 9-5 job then works out to .333 days, 3.33 hrs, 33.3 minutes, or 333 seconds.  Genius!

[jehovasfitness23]

everyone hates it and it never changes, welcome to democracy in the US

[frugalnacho]

Just think of the boon to crops and gardens with all that extra sunshine from DST.  Night owls HATE this one weird trick to improve your garden yields. 

[Just Joe]

everyone hates it and it never changes, welcome to democracy in the US

Ain't that the truth? Now get out there and go shopping!

[SunnyDays]

I love DST, and would love for it to become the new year-round 'standard' time. There is a bill moving through Congress, so maybe it will finally become a thing. Not holding my breath, though.

It's so asinine though.  It's all arbitrary and doesn't give us any extra light, just makes everyone wake up an hour earlier to adhere to some preset rigid schedule.  Why not just make double daylight saving time, or maybe even triple?  Get 3 extra hours of every evening for the low cost of waking up 3 hours earlier and making international time coordination needlessly complicated.

Granted, it doesn’t give us any extra hours in total, but we still get extra hours of daylight.  I’m in Canada, at the 49th parallel, where the sun sets at 4:30 PM in winter (you’re not that much further south), so you better believe I want as much daylight in summer as possible.  The sun technically sets around 9:40 at the summer solstice, but it’s still light enough to do stuff outside until almost 10:30.  And it’s light by 5 AM, so summer Standard Time would be a bummer.  Who needs daylight at 4 AM?

[RetiredAt63]

Ontario has passed legislation to go to permanent DST if Quebec and New York State do too.  So if you live in either of those jurisdictions, get pushing.

I'm lucky, Misty didn't mind the change.  Pets and babies are the hardest hit, since you can't explain it to them, and the ones most likely to make our lives miserable.

[RetiredAt63]

Generally I'm a pretty reasonable guy . . . but I'd be sorely tempted to vote for Donald Trump as president of Canada if he promised to abolish DST (maybe Mexico could pay for the costs associated with it?).

That's easy to say since we don't have Presidents.  Now if you wanted him to replace Erin O'Toole I would start to worry.

[Kris]

Huh. I was thoroughly prepared to mock and deride this article, but it did make me pull back a bit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/15/no-more-changing-clocks-history-says-be-careful-what-you-wish-daylight-saving-time/

[RetiredAt63]

Huh. I was thoroughly prepared to mock and deride this article, but it did make me pull back a bit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/15/no-more-changing-clocks-history-says-be-careful-what-you-wish-daylight-saving-time/

From a Canadian perspective, we are further north and the kids going to school in the dark is winter life anyway.  I know there were times in my working life when I only saw the sun through a window, I drove to work in the dark (or into the rising sun, not fun) and drove home in the dark (or into the setting sun, also not fun).  Note to others, if you have to drive to work, arrange to live east of where you work, then the sun will be behind you. Anyway . . . .  Where I see the effect of time zone most is east-west.  For Quebec/Ontario for Eastern Standard time, the sun rises and sets a lot earlier in eastern Quebec than it does in Western Ontario.   I've noticed the difference just between Montreal and Algonquin Park.  And of course for east and west sides of a time zone there is no fix.

I thought I would actually prefer to stick with DST time.  But when I look at actual times I am not so sure. Sunrise is at 5:14 AM DST and sunset is at 8:55 PM DST in Ottawa for the summer solstice this year (I looked it up) which is fine.  Do I want the sun up at 4:14 and setting at 7:55?  No.  Next December solstice sunrise is at 7:39 AM EST and sunset is 4:22 PM EST.  I'm not sure 8:39 and 5:22 are any better.  Maybe we just need to change which weekends we do the switch?    I know we switched a while ago to match the US and it was a lot more disruptive than the old date.

The obvious solution is to lessen the earth's tilt towards the sun.  However it is not a feasible solution.

[frugalnacho]

The obvious solution is to lessen the earth's tilt towards the sun.  However it is not a feasible solution.

Not with that attitude.