DST sucks balls.

[Midwest]

DST just needs to go the way of the buggy whip.  It was a bad idea back in the day, now it's just stupid.  It's finally getting light enough that people don't have to turn on the lights in the house in the morning, so lets make it dark again, so they have to use their lights for an extra month or so.  Then we can also irritate them by having it be light out in the middle of Summer when they're trying to sleep and the natural light ends up being wasted.  Got to be a plot by the power companies to bump up revenue.

You go to sleep @ 9:30 p.m.?  That's about as late as sunset get's here.  DST is awesome.  Get's dark at 7:45 tonight.  We should just stay on DST.

[BlueMR2]

You go to sleep @ 9:30 p.m.?  That's about as late as sunset get's here.  DST is awesome.  Get's dark at 7:45 tonight.  We should just stay on DST.

Before then.  Usually 8:30pm, sometimes as late as 9pm.  I'm up and going between 5-6am in the morning to get ready for work.

[chicagomeg]

Could be worse y'all. Crazy Australians are half on daylight savings time & half not, and don't even get me started on how the state of South Australia is 1/2 hour behind New South Wales instead of a full hour. Having survived that chaos, I will take our (almost) universal DST. Although overall, I would be happier like others if we just picked a system and stuck with it.

[GuitarStv]

Could be worse y'all. Crazy Australians are half on daylight savings time & half not, and don't even get me started on how the state of South Australia is 1/2 hour behind New South Wales instead of a full hour. Having survived that chaos, I will take our (almost) universal DST. Although overall, I would be happier like others if we just picked a system and stuck with it.

Heh . . . we have something similar in Canada with Newfoundland time.  It's UTC−03:30 . . . AND follows DST.

[chicagomeg]

Could be worse y'all. Crazy Australians are half on daylight savings time & half not, and don't even get me started on how the state of South Australia is 1/2 hour behind New South Wales instead of a full hour. Having survived that chaos, I will take our (almost) universal DST. Although overall, I would be happier like others if we just picked a system and stuck with it.

In Indiana most of the state used to not follow DST, but a sliver at the bottom of the state is technically a different time zone and did follow DST. So until the rest of the state switched to DST a few years ago that sliver would be at the same time rest for part of the year and an hour off the rest.

Ahh yes. As an Ohio native who went to college in Chicago & took the megabus home many a time, I remember the Indiana DST mess. Luckily it wasn't long after I started school that they switched. Changing the time 3 times for one trip was way too many.

[GuitarStv]

This is still sucking.

[rocksinmyhead]

This is still sucking.

I still hold by my position that I wish we would stay on DST year round. Now it's gonna be dark when I get home from work every day! The only bonus was that we had people over Saturday and ended up staying up REALLY late, but when I looked at the clock and thought, "Holy shit! It's 3AM!!!" it was at least only 2AM. Still bad, not quite as bad.

[lizzzi]

Yes, the usual twice-yearly annoyance. I can't remember if I posted last spring that I've lived in Arizona and Guam, where they did not change the time. And guess what? Life went on just fine.

[RetiredAt63]

Back to darkness, sigh.  And my dog does not believe me when I say it is only 6:00 AM - she knows (KNOWS!!!) that it is 7:00 and time for breakfast.  Nothing like having a dog giving big damp noisy sighs in your ear to get you up.

[Sid Hoffman]

Article: America should only have two timezones and no DST

I saw the article above last year and his reasoning is that it's already somewhat the truth anyway, since people in the modern America actually adjust their schedule based on TV-watching, and there's only two live TV timezones, aside from nationally televised events, of which of course everyone already has to watch at the same time anyway.  The author argues that two timezones would be better for business and interstate commerce.  I know with my company we already effectively span 5 timezones because my team has employees in all 4 regular timezones plus Arizona, which is its own timezone known exclusively as MST, not "Mountain" which of course switches between Standard Time and Daylight Time.

I've read the article and agree.  Although it might seem odd to some people to no longer have the solar noon quite as close to their own noon time, you'd get used to it in the same way you get used to the fact that days are much longer or shorter depending on season and latitude anyway.  Two timezones and no DST makes interstate commerce more efficient.

[dragoncar]

Article: America should only have two timezones and no DST

I saw the article above last year and his reasoning is that it's already somewhat the truth anyway, since people in the modern America actually adjust their schedule based on TV-watching, and there's only two live TV timezones, aside from nationally televised events, of which of course everyone already has to watch at the same time anyway.  The author argues that two timezones would be better for business and interstate commerce.  I know with my company we already effectively span 5 timezones because my team has employees in all 4 regular timezones plus Arizona, which is its own timezone known exclusively as MST, not "Mountain" which of course switches between Standard Time and Daylight Time.

I've read the article and agree.  Although it might seem odd to some people to no longer have the solar noon quite as close to their own noon time, you'd get used to it in the same way you get used to the fact that days are much longer or shorter depending on season and latitude anyway.  Two timezones and no DST makes interstate commerce more efficient.

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

[rocksinmyhead]

Back to darkness, sigh.  And my dog does not believe me when I say it is only 6:00 AM - she knows (KNOWS!!!) that it is 7:00 and time for breakfast.  Nothing like having a dog giving big damp noisy sighs in your ear to get you up.

Ha! I didn't even think of this, but our puppy has started waking us up around 4:30 AM many mornings (SUPER annoying because my boyfriend gets up around 5, and I usually get up around 5:30, so basically my last hour of sleep is total crap). But this morning she woke us up at 3:30!

[senecando]

From that article:

People arrive at work in Washington at 9:00 and Chicago at 8:00--that is, simultaneously--they have lunch at 12:30 and 11:30, the watch local newscasts at 6:00 and 5:00 and they dine at restaurants at 8:00 and 7:00.

Is this based on literally anything other than the financial bits of Chicago?

[frugalnacho]

+1 to the idea that DST is full blown retard.

[BlueMR2]

Back to darkness, sigh.  And my dog does not believe me when I say it is only 6:00 AM - she knows (KNOWS!!!) that it is 7:00 and time for breakfast.  Nothing like having a dog giving big damp noisy sighs in your ear to get you up.

Hmmm, here when DST ends, we finally get light again in the morning when we're trying to move around.  It gets darker earlier in the evening, but that's fine since we're home by then...

[Sid Hoffman]

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Read the article.  Alaska already deals with this, as does China.  Anybody who wants more daylight really needs to move further south anyway, rather than forcing the will of the privileged and politically connected (NYC, Boston, Washington DC, Chicago Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, etc are all well up in the northern latitudes) on the rest of the nation that gets plenty of daylight year-round by virtue of living closer to the equator.

Your statement also exhibits a lot of both pessimism and entitlement/victim mentality.  "I am a special flower, so I deserve more hours of daylight than anyone else, regardless of what it costs the greater good of the nation!"  Meanwhile, all the special flowers in the northern latitudes get more daylight than anyone else during summer, which most would argue is the most valuable time to have more daylight available in the first place.  I live way down south and was amazed on a business trip to Minneapolis one summer in late June at the fact that there was sunlight available pretty much any time I was awake.

Northerners can either choose to play the victim by saying they are "getting screwed" in winter, or acknowledge reality in that they're getting more sunshine than southerners during summer, when you are best able to exploit all that sunshine for outdoor activities.

[frugalnacho]

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Read the article.  Alaska already deals with this, as does China.  Anybody who wants more daylight really needs to move further south anyway, rather than forcing the will of the privileged and politically connected (NYC, Boston, Washington DC, Chicago Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, etc are all well up in the northern latitudes) on the rest of the nation that gets plenty of daylight year-round by virtue of living closer to the equator.

Your statement also exhibits a lot of both pessimism and entitlement/victim mentality.  "I am a special flower, so I deserve more hours of daylight than anyone else, regardless of what it costs the greater good of the nation!"  Meanwhile, all the special flowers in the northern latitudes get more daylight than anyone else during summer, which most would argue is the most valuable time to have more daylight available in the first place.  I live way down south and was amazed on a business trip to Minneapolis one summer in late June at the fact that there was sunlight available pretty much any time I was awake.

Northerners can either choose to play the victim by saying they are "getting screwed" in winter, or acknowledge reality in that they're getting more sunshine than southerners during summer, when you are best able to exploit all that sunshine for outdoor activities.

I think his point is that while 2 time zones with no DST might be better for business, etc, it still is a physically large time zone.  The sunset time between the east and west edges of such a time zone are going to be several hours apart.  Someone will be getting screwed in that scenario in terms of evening day light hours.

[dragoncar]

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Read the article.  Alaska already deals with this, as does China.  Anybody who wants more daylight really needs to move further south anyway, rather than forcing the will of the privileged and politically connected (NYC, Boston, Washington DC, Chicago Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, etc are all well up in the northern latitudes) on the rest of the nation that gets plenty of daylight year-round by virtue of living closer to the equator.

Your statement also exhibits a lot of both pessimism and entitlement/victim mentality.  "I am a special flower, so I deserve more hours of daylight than anyone else, regardless of what it costs the greater good of the nation!"  Meanwhile, all the special flowers in the northern latitudes get more daylight than anyone else during summer, which most would argue is the most valuable time to have more daylight available in the first place.  I live way down south and was amazed on a business trip to Minneapolis one summer in late June at the fact that there was sunlight available pretty much any time I was awake.

Northerners can either choose to play the victim by saying they are "getting screwed" in winter, or acknowledge reality in that they're getting more sunshine than southerners during summer, when you are best able to exploit all that sunshine for outdoor activities.

Are you for real?

[Sid Hoffman]

I think his point is that while 2 time zones with no DST might be better for business, etc, it still is a physically large time zone.  The sunset time between the east and west edges of such a time zone are going to be several hours apart.  Someone will be getting screwed in that scenario in terms of evening day light hours.

Again, that's just bias.  I personally want the sun to go down sooner in the evening because I do all my best work in the morning.  I personally would rather have my schedule focused on the morning productivity time.  There is no "getting screwed" since businesses can still set their hours to whatever they want (as they already do; most businesses open anywhere from 6am to 10am already) it is all just personal preference along with a healthy dose of fear of change.

We continue to use DST because people are afraid of change.  It would literally be just as easy to leave the time zone alone and simply have businesses voluntarily have seasonal hours, just as many businesses do anyway.  In fact in a lot of ways it would be better to have businesses change their hours but again, people are so obsessed with television and sports that they refuse to change their schedules if it will interfere with TV watching at certain times.

[frugalnacho]

I think his point is that while 2 time zones with no DST might be better for business, etc, it still is a physically large time zone.  The sunset time between the east and west edges of such a time zone are going to be several hours apart.  Someone will be getting screwed in that scenario in terms of evening day light hours.

Again, that's just bias.  I personally want the sun to go down sooner in the evening because I do all my best work in the morning.  I personally would rather have my schedule focused on the morning productivity time.  There is no "getting screwed" since businesses can still set their hours to whatever they want (as they already do; most businesses open anywhere from 6am to 10am already) it is all just personal preference along with a healthy dose of fear of change.

We continue to use DST because people are afraid of change.  It would literally be just as easy to leave the time zone alone and simply have businesses voluntarily have seasonal hours, just as many businesses do anyway.  In fact in a lot of ways it would be better to have businesses change their hours but again, people are so obsessed with television and sports that they refuse to change their schedules if it will interfere with TV watching at certain times.

I don't understand how the articles suggestion improves anything then.  What you really want is for businesses and people to simply adjust to changing sunset/sunrise.  Sun rises at 4am? Then start your day and open your business at 4am.  Sun doesn't rise until 10am? Then start your day and open your business at 10am.  You are still going to have issues with live sports not lining up.  If you play a game on the west coast, it is going to be 4 hours later (4 real hours of sun movement regardless of what the clock says) on the east coast .

[Sid Hoffman]

Yes, although the problems you mentioned are exactly the same as they are already.  We are already dealing with that whenever there's a presidential speech, the Superbowl, or any other live event that people are supposed to tune in to.  It would simply be a little easier on the human side of business to have fewer time zones.  It's all psychological anyway.  Numerical times don't actually mean anything to your body, nor does changing your time zone alter what the sun does to the planet.  It's just a psychological thing built out of tradition, and boy oh boy do people love to cling to tradition!  I seriously doubt anything will ever change though, simply because there is so much inertia behind the tradition and the psychological trickery aspect of it.

[Davin]

Article: America should only have two timezones and no DST

I saw the article above last year and his reasoning is that it's already somewhat the truth anyway, since people in the modern America actually adjust their schedule based on TV-watching, and there's only two live TV timezones, aside from nationally televised events, of which of course everyone already has to watch at the same time anyway.  The author argues that two timezones would be better for business and interstate commerce.  I know with my company we already effectively span 5 timezones because my team has employees in all 4 regular timezones plus Arizona, which is its own timezone known exclusively as MST, not "Mountain" which of course switches between Standard Time and Daylight Time.

I've read the article and agree.  Although it might seem odd to some people to no longer have the solar noon quite as close to their own noon time, you'd get used to it in the same way you get used to the fact that days are much longer or shorter depending on season and latitude anyway.  Two timezones and no DST makes interstate commerce more efficient.

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Are you serious? In the winter, it is dark when I leave for work in the morning and dark when I get home. In the summer it is light when I leave for work in the morning and light when I get home. Seasons change slowly and we adjust to them naturally. Arbitrarily switching the time around abruptly and capriciously accomplishes nothing. Nobody gets "screwed" by having a consistent clock. I say set it and forget it, like and index fund allocation strategy.

[frugalnacho]

Article: America should only have two timezones and no DST

I saw the article above last year and his reasoning is that it's already somewhat the truth anyway, since people in the modern America actually adjust their schedule based on TV-watching, and there's only two live TV timezones, aside from nationally televised events, of which of course everyone already has to watch at the same time anyway.  The author argues that two timezones would be better for business and interstate commerce.  I know with my company we already effectively span 5 timezones because my team has employees in all 4 regular timezones plus Arizona, which is its own timezone known exclusively as MST, not "Mountain" which of course switches between Standard Time and Daylight Time.

I've read the article and agree.  Although it might seem odd to some people to no longer have the solar noon quite as close to their own noon time, you'd get used to it in the same way you get used to the fact that days are much longer or shorter depending on season and latitude anyway.  Two timezones and no DST makes interstate commerce more efficient.

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Are you serious? In the winter, it is dark when I leave for work in the morning and dark when I get home. In the summer it is light when I leave for work in the morning and light when I get home. Seasons change slowly and we adjust to them naturally. Arbitrarily switching the time around abruptly and capriciously accomplishes nothing. Nobody gets "screwed" by having a consistent clock. I say set it and forget it, like and index fund allocation strategy.

What if we went to a single world wide timezone that is 12 hours different from your current one, but businesses, schools, and markets didn't adjust to the local sun and still were open from 9am to 5pm, and in order to conform to the new world wide time zone and schedule you had to spend 8 hours sleeping during daylight.  How would you not be getting screwed out of valuable daylight in that extreme scenario?  This is exactly what dragoncar is talking about.  How does nobody else understand this?

[Davin]

Article: America should only have two timezones and no DST

I saw the article above last year and his reasoning is that it's already somewhat the truth anyway, since people in the modern America actually adjust their schedule based on TV-watching, and there's only two live TV timezones, aside from nationally televised events, of which of course everyone already has to watch at the same time anyway.  The author argues that two timezones would be better for business and interstate commerce.  I know with my company we already effectively span 5 timezones because my team has employees in all 4 regular timezones plus Arizona, which is its own timezone known exclusively as MST, not "Mountain" which of course switches between Standard Time and Daylight Time.

I've read the article and agree.  Although it might seem odd to some people to no longer have the solar noon quite as close to their own noon time, you'd get used to it in the same way you get used to the fact that days are much longer or shorter depending on season and latitude anyway.  Two timezones and no DST makes interstate commerce more efficient.

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Are you serious? In the winter, it is dark when I leave for work in the morning and dark when I get home. In the summer it is light when I leave for work in the morning and light when I get home. Seasons change slowly and we adjust to them naturally. Arbitrarily switching the time around abruptly and capriciously accomplishes nothing. Nobody gets "screwed" by having a consistent clock. I say set it and forget it, like and index fund allocation strategy.

What if we went to a single world wide timezone that is 12 hours different from your current one, but businesses, schools, and markets didn't adjust to the local sun and still were open from 9am to 5pm, and in order to conform to the new world wide time zone and schedule you had to spend 8 hours sleeping during daylight.  How would you not be getting screwed out of valuable daylight in that extreme scenario?  This is exactly what dragoncar is talking about.  How does nobody else understand this?

I'm not arguing for that crap, I am opposing the notion of fucking with the clock. I don't particularly care what time it is, as long as it is consistent. Setting your time zone by a TV schedule is about as dumb of an idea as I've ever heard, but if they leave it be from that point on I'll learn to live with it.

[frugalnacho]

Article: America should only have two timezones and no DST

I saw the article above last year and his reasoning is that it's already somewhat the truth anyway, since people in the modern America actually adjust their schedule based on TV-watching, and there's only two live TV timezones, aside from nationally televised events, of which of course everyone already has to watch at the same time anyway.  The author argues that two timezones would be better for business and interstate commerce.  I know with my company we already effectively span 5 timezones because my team has employees in all 4 regular timezones plus Arizona, which is its own timezone known exclusively as MST, not "Mountain" which of course switches between Standard Time and Daylight Time.

I've read the article and agree.  Although it might seem odd to some people to no longer have the solar noon quite as close to their own noon time, you'd get used to it in the same way you get used to the fact that days are much longer or shorter depending on season and latitude anyway.  Two timezones and no DST makes interstate commerce more efficient.

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Are you serious? In the winter, it is dark when I leave for work in the morning and dark when I get home. In the summer it is light when I leave for work in the morning and light when I get home. Seasons change slowly and we adjust to them naturally. Arbitrarily switching the time around abruptly and capriciously accomplishes nothing. Nobody gets "screwed" by having a consistent clock. I say set it and forget it, like and index fund allocation strategy.

What if we went to a single world wide timezone that is 12 hours different from your current one, but businesses, schools, and markets didn't adjust to the local sun and still were open from 9am to 5pm, and in order to conform to the new world wide time zone and schedule you had to spend 8 hours sleeping during daylight.  How would you not be getting screwed out of valuable daylight in that extreme scenario?  This is exactly what dragoncar is talking about.  How does nobody else understand this?

I'm not arguing for that crap, I am opposing the notion of fucking with the clock. I don't particularly care what time it is, as long as it is consistent. Setting your time zone by a TV schedule is about as dumb of an idea as I've ever heard, but if they leave it be from that point on I'll learn to live with it.

I responded directly to your bolded sentence with a scenario where someone does get screwed by a consistent clock.  If it is consistently time shifted away from a normal schedule (which is exactly what would happen to people on at the edges of a sufficiently large time zone) you certainly do get screwed.  I don't want to have to learn to live with my normal daily routine (of working, grocery shopping, running errands, going to the dr) to be during non day light hours.   

[Davin]

Article: America should only have two timezones and no DST

I saw the article above last year and his reasoning is that it's already somewhat the truth anyway, since people in the modern America actually adjust their schedule based on TV-watching, and there's only two live TV timezones, aside from nationally televised events, of which of course everyone already has to watch at the same time anyway.  The author argues that two timezones would be better for business and interstate commerce.  I know with my company we already effectively span 5 timezones because my team has employees in all 4 regular timezones plus Arizona, which is its own timezone known exclusively as MST, not "Mountain" which of course switches between Standard Time and Daylight Time.

I've read the article and agree.  Although it might seem odd to some people to no longer have the solar noon quite as close to their own noon time, you'd get used to it in the same way you get used to the fact that days are much longer or shorter depending on season and latitude anyway.  Two timezones and no DST makes interstate commerce more efficient.

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Are you serious? In the winter, it is dark when I leave for work in the morning and dark when I get home. In the summer it is light when I leave for work in the morning and light when I get home. Seasons change slowly and we adjust to them naturally. Arbitrarily switching the time around abruptly and capriciously accomplishes nothing. Nobody gets "screwed" by having a consistent clock. I say set it and forget it, like and index fund allocation strategy.

What if we went to a single world wide timezone that is 12 hours different from your current one, but businesses, schools, and markets didn't adjust to the local sun and still were open from 9am to 5pm, and in order to conform to the new world wide time zone and schedule you had to spend 8 hours sleeping during daylight.  How would you not be getting screwed out of valuable daylight in that extreme scenario?  This is exactly what dragoncar is talking about.  How does nobody else understand this?

I'm not arguing for that crap, I am opposing the notion of fucking with the clock. I don't particularly care what time it is, as long as it is consistent. Setting your time zone by a TV schedule is about as dumb of an idea as I've ever heard, but if they leave it be from that point on I'll learn to live with it.

I responded directly to your bolded sentence with a scenario where someone does get screwed by a consistent clock.  If it is consistently time shifted away from a normal schedule (which is exactly what would happen to people on at the edges of a sufficiently large time zone) you certainly do get screwed.  I don't want to have to learn to live with my normal daily routine (of working, grocery shopping, running errands, going to the dr) to be during non day light hours.

I agree that reducing the number of time zones is a bad idea, but why throw the no DST baby out with the two time zones bathwater? I may be missing part of dragoncar's point, but you seem to be missing mine completely, so I will restate it. The benefits of not fucking with the clock outweigh the inconvenience of having a little daylight fluctuation around the margins.

[frugalnacho]

I agree that reducing the number of time zones is a bad idea, but why throw the no DST baby out with the two time zones bathwater? I may be missing part of dragoncar's point, but you seem to be missing mine completely, so I will restate it. The benefits of not fucking with the clock outweigh the inconvenience of having a little daylight fluctuation around the margins.

Yes I agree, DST is full blown retard and should be abolished.  There is no good reason for us to be moving the time around.

Dragoncar's comment was a direct reply to SidHoffman who posted an article suggesting america switch to 2 time zones.  Dragoncar brought up (validly) that people on the edges of such a large time zone will be getting screwed by having their time zone permanently off shifted from a normal time zone.  I mean if all of america was a single time zone, and businesses still operated on the "9-5" schedule, then someone, somewhere in that large time zone, is going to be getting out of work at 5pm and it will be dark, not because they have less overall daylight due to axial tilt, but because the time zone is simply too large for everyone to be on the same schedule simultaneously.

[dragoncar]

Article: America should only have two timezones and no DST

I saw the article above last year and his reasoning is that it's already somewhat the truth anyway, since people in the modern America actually adjust their schedule based on TV-watching, and there's only two live TV timezones, aside from nationally televised events, of which of course everyone already has to watch at the same time anyway.  The author argues that two timezones would be better for business and interstate commerce.  I know with my company we already effectively span 5 timezones because my team has employees in all 4 regular timezones plus Arizona, which is its own timezone known exclusively as MST, not "Mountain" which of course switches between Standard Time and Daylight Time.

I've read the article and agree.  Although it might seem odd to some people to no longer have the solar noon quite as close to their own noon time, you'd get used to it in the same way you get used to the fact that days are much longer or shorter depending on season and latitude anyway.  Two timezones and no DST makes interstate commerce more efficient.

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Are you serious? In the winter, it is dark when I leave for work in the morning and dark when I get home. In the summer it is light when I leave for work in the morning and light when I get home. Seasons change slowly and we adjust to them naturally. Arbitrarily switching the time around abruptly and capriciously accomplishes nothing. Nobody gets "screwed" by having a consistent clock. I say set it and forget it, like and index fund allocation strategy.

What if we went to a single world wide timezone that is 12 hours different from your current one, but businesses, schools, and markets didn't adjust to the local sun and still were open from 9am to 5pm, and in order to conform to the new world wide time zone and schedule you had to spend 8 hours sleeping during daylight.  How would you not be getting screwed out of valuable daylight in that extreme scenario?  This is exactly what dragoncar is talking about.  How does nobody else understand this?

I'm not arguing for that crap, I am opposing the notion of fucking with the clock. I don't particularly care what time it is, as long as it is consistent. Setting your time zone by a TV schedule is about as dumb of an idea as I've ever heard, but if they leave it be from that point on I'll learn to live with it.

I responded directly to your bolded sentence with a scenario where someone does get screwed by a consistent clock.  If it is consistently time shifted away from a normal schedule (which is exactly what would happen to people on at the edges of a sufficiently large time zone) you certainly do get screwed.  I don't want to have to learn to live with my normal daily routine (of working, grocery shopping, running errands, going to the dr) to be during non day light hours.

I agree that reducing the number of time zones is a bad idea, but why throw the no DST baby out with the two time zones bathwater? I may be missing part of dragoncar's point, but you seem to be missing mine completely, so I will restate it. The benefits of not fucking with the clock outweigh the inconvenience of having a little daylight fluctuation around the margins.

You're quoting the wrong series of posts if that's your only point.  The above thread discusses the downsides of living on the edge of a giant timezone. 

[Davin]

Article: America should only have two timezones and no DST

I saw the article above last year and his reasoning is that it's already somewhat the truth anyway, since people in the modern America actually adjust their schedule based on TV-watching, and there's only two live TV timezones, aside from nationally televised events, of which of course everyone already has to watch at the same time anyway.  The author argues that two timezones would be better for business and interstate commerce.  I know with my company we already effectively span 5 timezones because my team has employees in all 4 regular timezones plus Arizona, which is its own timezone known exclusively as MST, not "Mountain" which of course switches between Standard Time and Daylight Time.

I've read the article and agree.  Although it might seem odd to some people to no longer have the solar noon quite as close to their own noon time, you'd get used to it in the same way you get used to the fact that days are much longer or shorter depending on season and latitude anyway.  Two timezones and no DST makes interstate commerce more efficient.

Doesn't that mean that some people on the edge are getting extra screwed by having fewer daylight hours after work?

Are you serious? In the winter, it is dark when I leave for work in the morning and dark when I get home. In the summer it is light when I leave for work in the morning and light when I get home. Seasons change slowly and we adjust to them naturally. Arbitrarily switching the time around abruptly and capriciously accomplishes nothing. Nobody gets "screwed" by having a consistent clock. I say set it and forget it, like and index fund allocation strategy.

What if we went to a single world wide timezone that is 12 hours different from your current one, but businesses, schools, and markets didn't adjust to the local sun and still were open from 9am to 5pm, and in order to conform to the new world wide time zone and schedule you had to spend 8 hours sleeping during daylight.  How would you not be getting screwed out of valuable daylight in that extreme scenario?  This is exactly what dragoncar is talking about.  How does nobody else understand this?

I'm not arguing for that crap, I am opposing the notion of fucking with the clock. I don't particularly care what time it is, as long as it is consistent. Setting your time zone by a TV schedule is about as dumb of an idea as I've ever heard, but if they leave it be from that point on I'll learn to live with it.

I responded directly to your bolded sentence with a scenario where someone does get screwed by a consistent clock.  If it is consistently time shifted away from a normal schedule (which is exactly what would happen to people on at the edges of a sufficiently large time zone) you certainly do get screwed.  I don't want to have to learn to live with my normal daily routine (of working, grocery shopping, running errands, going to the dr) to be during non day light hours.

I agree that reducing the number of time zones is a bad idea, but why throw the no DST baby out with the two time zones bathwater? I may be missing part of dragoncar's point, but you seem to be missing mine completely, so I will restate it. The benefits of not fucking with the clock outweigh the inconvenience of having a little daylight fluctuation around the margins.

You're quoting the wrong series of posts if that's your only point.  The above thread discusses the downsides of living on the edge of a giant timezone.

Sorry I thought your question was intended as a rejection of  both ideas, not just the part about combining time zones. This is a part of a larger discussion of how and why DST sucks balls after all, and getting rid of it was a part of the proposal in the linked article. I guess I was a little snippy about it; I blame it on the time change.

[Sid Hoffman]

I'd like to point out that the way timezones are currently drawn, there is already an edge to the timezone.  Currently because of the 1-hour granularity, people at the edge of a timezone would be approximately 30 minutes ahead or behind solar noon.  Going to two timezones (east & west) would simply increase the maximum variance from the already existing 30 minute deviation to a maximum of 60 minutes.  Granted, even the 30-minute remark is laughable since current boundaries are designed around state boundaries, not actual proximity to the solar noon for each time zone.

Also the assumption that businesses would not change their hours is unlikely if the nation went to a single timezone.  China and Alaska serve as examples of that.  Still, doing two timezones & eliminating DST wouldn't be a dramatic change for America, and yet would still make the human interaction aspect of nationwide business easier and thus more profitable through efficiency.

Again, if arguing against the 2 timezones thing, look at how crazy-freaking wide Central already is at the southern end, or how wide eastern is at the northern end:



I can't find anything that describes exactly how far each extreme is away from solar noon, but I guarantee it's more than 30 minutes already.

[senecando]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/02/21/how_wrong_is_your_time_zone_map_shows_how_far_ahead_or_behind_the_world.html

And, the higher res version:
http://i0.wp.com/poisson.phc.unipi.it/~maggiolo/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/SolarTimeVsStandardTime.png

[dycker1978]

Who would have thought that Saskatchewan had it right.  It is sure a pain to figure out when you can call out of provice business after the change, espically when you dont pay attention to it.

[dragoncar]

I'd like to point out that the way timezones are currently drawn, there is already an edge to the timezone.  Currently because of the 1-hour granularity, people at the edge of a timezone would be approximately 30 minutes ahead or behind solar noon.  Going to two timezones (east & west) would simply increase the maximum variance from the already existing 30 minute deviation to a maximum of 60 minutes.  Granted, even the 30-minute remark is laughable since current boundaries are designed around state boundaries, not actual proximity to the solar noon for each time zone.

Also the assumption that businesses would not change their hours is unlikely if the nation went to a single timezone.  China and Alaska serve as examples of that.  Still, doing two timezones & eliminating DST wouldn't be a dramatic change for America, and yet would still make the human interaction aspect of nationwide business easier and thus more profitable through efficiency.

Again, if arguing against the 2 timezones thing, look at how crazy-freaking wide Central already is at the southern end, or how wide eastern is at the northern end:



I can't find anything that describes exactly how far each extreme is away from solar noon, but I guarantee it's more than 30 minutes already.

Just because there's already an edge to the timezones doesn't mean it's OK to make it worse.  You already pay taxes, so you're fine with doubling them, right?

Ohh, Alaska and China "already deal with this?"  Lets adopt their crappy system so that we can also "deal with it" ourselves!  Yay?

From the article:

Similarly, China declared itself one time zone in 1949, though it spans give geographical time zones. But more than 90 percent of Chinese then and now lived in the Chinese equivalent of our Eastern and Central time zones, making the adjustment to a similar time zone relatively minor--and also, if anyone has forgotten, it was a vicious dictatorship which imposed much more onerous adjustments on the people it ruled than a single time zone

Goodie, can't wait to be more like China.  Can we also get a piece of Alaska's weather?

[Sid Hoffman]

And, the higher res version:
http://i0.wp.com/poisson.phc.unipi.it/~maggiolo/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/SolarTimeVsStandardTime.png

Perfect, that's exactly what I was looking for!  It's pretty cool seeing how virtually all of western Europe aside from the UK and Portugal are in a single time zone.  That is proof positive that USA can do two timezones: east and west.  Western Europe spans the same distance as each 1/2 of USA.

[solon]

Trailer for a movie about DST.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4EUTMPuvHo

[frugalnacho]

Trailer for a movie about DST.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4EUTMPuvHo

lmao

[solon]

Trailer for a movie about DST.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4EUTMPuvHo

lmao

I know! I had tears in my eyes. My wife and I have said many of the same things in the movie.

ETA: 250! I'm a Magnum!

[BlueMR2]

I mean if all of america was a single time zone, and businesses still operated on the "9-5" schedule, then someone, somewhere in that large time zone, is going to be getting out of work at 5pm and it will be dark, not because they have less overall daylight due to axial tilt, but because the time zone is simply too large for everyone to be on the same schedule simultaneously.

Why would business still be on 9-5?  I don't get why we couldn't just go to UTC (or GMT, for our resident France haters).  Open your business when you want.  If you're Eastern USA, then you'd just choose to open at 1300Z...

The really stupid thing about DST is businesses that compensate for it by having different Winter/Summer hours.  So, first we have to move our clocks for no good reason, then businesses change their hours to get them back to the proper "time" anyways.  Argh!  Somebody please just shoot DST in the head!

[HappyRock]

DST sucks! Why the **** do we still have it?

+1 to this post

[dragoncar]

I mean if all of america was a single time zone, and businesses still operated on the "9-5" schedule, then someone, somewhere in that large time zone, is going to be getting out of work at 5pm and it will be dark, not because they have less overall daylight due to axial tilt, but because the time zone is simply too large for everyone to be on the same schedule simultaneously.

Why would business still be on 9-5?  I don't get why we couldn't just go to UTC (or GMT, for our resident France haters).  Open your business when you want.  If you're Eastern USA, then you'd just choose to open at 1300Z...

The really stupid thing about DST is businesses that compensate for it by having different Winter/Summer hours.  So, first we have to move our clocks for no good reason, then businesses change their hours to get them back to the proper "time" anyways.  Argh!  Somebody please just shoot DST in the head!

Open when I wake up and close when I must go to sleep.  When I've had enough the store is closed.

[GuitarStv]

WHY IS THIS STILL HAPPENING???

[lizzzi]

Yeah, a big plus one.

[solon]

How is this still a thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br0NW9ufUUw

[lizzie]

I wish we'd just stay on standard time. I hate the extra heat and light in the evening. When my kids were younger it made it almost impossible to get them to go to bed at their normal 8pm bedtime when it's still blazingly hot and there's an hour and a half of sunlight to go.

That said, it's always seemed to me that most people prefer the light in the evening, so the second-best option is just to stay on it all the time. I'd prefer that instead of having to do this stupid switch twice a year and get used to getting up an hour earlier. Especially since they've gradually shifted it so now it's like only four months that we're on standard time anyway.

[Russ]

sorry to all y'all that hate the sun, but DST is still the illest. Anybody who disagrees is a fun-hating commie

[Philociraptor]

Another DST hater here. Normally I wake up with sun and go home as the sun is setting, but with DST I wake up in darkness and the sun keeps me awake when I want to sleep at night. WTH!?

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I am completely indifferent to DST. I find it bizarre that people take it so seriously. I do prefer the change in the spring to fall, though.

[KiloRomeo]

I agree with Russ. DST ride till I die! Don't care about tax policy, fiscal policy, whatever...next politician that promises DST all year gets my vote forever.

To the DST haters....what do you guys do in the afternoon? Watch TV? I don't get the hatred.

[AlexK]

Think how hard it must be to write airline scheduling software with planes in the air and different locations changing time differently, and it can change with legislation too. What a mess.

[rocksinmyhead]

sorry to all y'all that hate the sun, but DST is still the illest. Anybody who disagrees is a fun-hating commie

I agree with Russ. DST ride till I die! Don't care about tax policy, fiscal policy, whatever...next politician that promises DST all year gets my vote forever.

To the DST haters....what do you guys do in the afternoon? Watch TV? I don't get the hatred.

Yeah! I love it!! So stoked to actually have more than 30 minutes of sunlight after work! It's totally clutch for running outside and/or walking your dogs. Sorry for those of you who have young offspring that you're trying to put to bed at 7:30, but don't worry, they'll move out eventually :)