DOGE website is up showing est $55B savings

[jimmyshutter]

https://www.doge.gov/savings

Total current estimated savings are $55 billion with planned biweekly updates. I'm not going to get into what I think is unreasonable but I do agree some of these contracts are not in the interest of the majority of Americans.

[Telecaster]

Do they say how this number is calculated?   If not, then it is guaranteed bullshit. 

[ToughMother]

I ran a data/analytics shop at a major university before I FIREd. No sources or methodology? Data is meaningless.

[sonofsven]

https://www.doge.gov/savings

Total current estimated savings are $55 billion with planned biweekly updates. I'm not going to get into what I think is unreasonable but I do agree some of these contracts are not in the interest of the majority of Americans.

Ok Pangloss, lol.

[Kris]

Imagine believing anything that website says.

[bacchi]

Imagine believing anything that website says.

Imagine believing anything Elon says.

[jimmyshutter]

Fun Facts

In 1993, President Bill Clinton signed the Government Performance and Results Act

https://www.govexec.com/management/2023/08/long-long-overdue-oral-history-government-performance-and-results-act/389469/

It is important because, to the extent that our Government works with greater efficiency and effectiveness and less unnecessary cost, it will strengthen the American economy as well as the bonds of our citizenship.

The law simply requires that we chart a course for every endeavor that we take the people's money for, see how well we are progressing, tell the public how we are doing, stop the things that don't work, and never stop improving the things that we think are worth investing in.

In Jan. 23, 1996, during that year’s State of the Union address. President Clinton also stated:

https://www.govexec.com/management/2022/05/that-time-bill-clinton-declared-era-big-government-over/366425/

We know big government does not have all the answers. We know there's not a program for every problem. We have worked to give the American people a smaller, less bureaucratic government in Washington. And we have to give the American people one that lives within its means.

The era of big government is over.

In 2011, President Obama signed an executive order for Government Efficiency

Executive Order 13576--Delivering an Efficient, Effective, and Accountable Government

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2011/06/13/executive-order-13576-delivering-efficient-effective-and-accountable-gov

Cutting waste and increasing the efficiency of Government operations by curbing uncontrolled growth in contract spending, terminating poorly performing information technology projects, deploying state of the art fraud detection tools to crack down on waste, focusing agency leaders on achieving ambitious improvements in high priority areas, and opening Government up to the public to increase accountability and accelerate innovation.

On November 12, 2024 President Trump Announced:

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/statement-president-elect-donald-j-trump-announcing-that-elon-musk-and-vivek-ramaswamy

I am pleased to announce that the Great Elon Musk, working in conjunction with American Patriot Vivek Ramaswamy, will lead the Department of Government Efficiency ("DOGE"). Together, these two wonderful Americans will pave the way for my Administration to dismantle Government Bureaucracy, slash excess regulations, cut wasteful expenditures, and restructure Federal Agencies

[GuitarStv]

https://www.doge.gov/savings

Total current estimated savings are $55 billion with planned biweekly updates. I'm not going to get into what I think is unreasonable but I do agree some of these contracts are not in the interest of the majority of Americans.

It's entirely possible that some of the contracts are not in the interest of the majority of Americans.  There's nothing on that website showing that this is the case though.  There's just a list (with a disturbing number of errors* given the total lack of accountability) based on one unelected man's opinion, who has been operating without oversight or review and has personal conflicts of interest with many of the agencies he is 'investigating'.

Efficiency is a good goal.  Striving towards efficiency is worth doing.  There are serious problems with the way that this attempt to achieve that goal is being carried out.



* Ugh.  Lack of oversight and accountability is certainly hurting the reliability of data you can get from doggy.  Just randomly clicking on some stuff shows that even their tallies can't be trusted:

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE   KANSAS CITY   51,138   $900,000

Details:
Kansas City
$1,275,000 - Total Savings
$900,000 - Annual Lease Cost
Lease Termination sent 1/22/25, effective 2/1/26. Tenant will relocate into another local building.

Where are the 1.2 million total savings if the annual lease was 900k?


DEPARTMENT OF LABOR   WASHINGTON, DC   845,389   $26,357,330

Details:
Washington, DC
$7,148,974 - Total Savings
$26,357,330 - Annual Lease Cost
Lease termination notice sent 1/30/25. Termination effective at original expiration on 5/14/25.

So, they decided not to renew the lease . . . How does that result in 7 million dollars of savings?  Why are they listing 26 million dollars of savings if the total savings they found was 7 million?


DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE   NIFA SMALL BUSINESS INNOVAT...   2/10/2025      $576,365

Details:
ICF INCORPORATED, L.L.C.
$0 - Savings
$576,365 - Total Contract

NIFA SMALL BUSINESS INNOVATION RESEARCH (SBIR) OUTREACH CONTRACT SERVICE DEALING WITH HISTORICALLY UNDER-SERVED POPULATION (SBIR OUTREACH TO WOMAN-OWNED AND SOCIALLY AND/OR ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTAGED SMALL BUSINESSES).

Cancelled a 500k program and didn't save any money doing it.  But reported half a million in savings?


DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE   ENVIRONMENTAL COMPLIANCE SE...   2/14/2025      $8,189,574

Details:
CLARK GROUP, LLC, THE
$0 - Savings
$8,189,574 - Total Contract

ENVIRONMENTAL COMPLIANCE SERVICES FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF PILOT PROJECTS DEVELOPED UNDER THE PARTNERSHIP FOR CLIMATE-SMART COMMODITIES

So we cancelled some climate change initiatives while not saving any money.  But listed 8 million in savings?


DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE   SCIENTIFIC, ENGINEERING, AN...   2/14/2025      $2,014,381
Details:
FEDWRITERS, INC.
$1,073,496 - Savings
$2,014,381 - Total Contract

SCIENTIFIC, ENGINEERING, AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT, TASK ORDER FOR NOAA'S UXSRTO

Cancelled unmanned monitoring stations used by NOAA to gather data about the poles, oceans, wildlands, storm damaged areas, volcanic islands, and wildfires.  Saved a million dollars (at unknown future cost . . . since monitoring and learning about weather related disasters seems like a good way to prepare for things upcoming . . . but ho-hum) where is the reported 2 million in savings coming from?

[sixwings]

Is what they are "saving" things that were allocated in congress budgets that they just don't like?

[GuitarStv]

Is what they are "saving" things that were allocated in congress budgets that they just don't like?

All communications and records of Musk's operation have been declared presidential records by Trump and are thus considered secret - so it's impossible to know that for sure.

[reeshau]

I read that they included the shutdown of President Carter's office in their number.  Forget the cause, any reduction was their idea!

[Travis]

DOGE miscounting by an order of magnitude

https://x.com/jamiedupree/status/1891955856104731089?t=tw5GKGmThcPH7sbGLJOi_w&s=19

[Kris]

Uh-huh.

[sixwings]

Is what they are "saving" things that were allocated in congress budgets that they just don't like?

All communications and records of Musk's operation have been declared presidential records by Trump and are thus considered secret - so it's impossible to know that for sure.

Where's Herberts hawk eyes when we need them???

[oldtoyota]

I ran a data/analytics shop at a major university before I FIREd. No sources or methodology? Data is meaningless.

+1

Means nothing.

[oldtoyota]

Fun Facts

In 1993, President Bill Clinton signed the Government Performance and Results Act

https://www.govexec.com/management/2023/08/long-long-overdue-oral-history-government-performance-and-results-act/389469/

Please point us to instances in 1993 under Clinton or anytime under Obama where Americans stationed abroad had to run for their lives from rioting people due to losing their funding overnight.

Show me where Americans had to fund their passage back to the US at the last minute and run from hostile people angry that their health clinic is being shut down without notice.

This affected people I know, so it matters to me.

[Ron Scott]

Close some military bases that the military doesn’t want and only exist because they’re in politically protected areas and then talk to me about savings.

[reeshau]

Close some military bases that the military doesn’t want and only exist because they’re in politically protected areas and then talk to me about savings.

One small, long-standing thorn that is a silver lining of a cowed Congress.  Watch them grow a backbone on this one! Will probably just add to the scalpel on Medicaid to save them.  Everything's a Deal, everything's transactional.

[RetiredAt63]

I seem to remember learning way back when that governments provide services to citizens that are not feasible for business, because they basically are a service provider, not a money maker.

You know, things like non-toll roads, postal service, etc.

Of course what do I know?  I am just a peace, order, and good government socialist commie instead of a life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and money old lady.     

/s in case it wasn't clear.

[oldtoyota]

From Travis:

"DOGE taking credit for contracts that ended through natural causes in their count of money saved, to include the lease for President Carter's office."

https://bsky.app/profile/nicholasbednar.bsky.social/post/3lifycj6wrt2n

[Fomerly known as something]

Also at what cost.  I recall visiting the USAID compound in Juba South Sudan before it succeeded from Sudan.  Wednesday night was movie night, where all the military contractors who were working with the peacekeeping troops came for movies and alcohol (Sudan was a dry country at that time). They mixed and mingled with our intelligence type folks.  Yes beer and movies for on the ground human intelligence what a nice trade.

[LennStar]

https://www.doge.gov/savings

Total current estimated savings are $55 billion with planned biweekly updates. I'm not going to get into what I think is unreasonable but I do agree some of these contracts are not in the interest of the majority of Americans.

What is the interest of the majority of Americans?
Example: USAID has basically ended to exist. Already NOW there are hundreds of babies that will die of HIV because of that. Is that in the interest of pro-life people?
I guess yes, because it's A) Blacks not living in America that die and B) HIV!!! Must be sinners!!!

The thing is that a lot of those "unneccessary" things are soft power. You know, the stuff that made China so successfull internationally in the last 20 years. Goodwill. Which doesn't pay directly, but often indirectly.
You know, when I was in Den Hague, the most memorable thing was like the embassies were all in one place, and many small countries shared a house or even an ambassador.
And while I walked down the street with all those beautiful old houses that were embassies, I came to the biggest, ugliest thing I have seen in that town.
A big block of concrete with a tremendous wall. What is that, I thought. A prison in hte center of the city? Probably a police station protecting all the ambassadors? Why did they build it so ugly?
Ah no, wait. It's just the embassy of the US.

The US is, for good reasons, not much liked in many places of the world. If, because you cut down help, that adds more places to that list and now you have to pay 10 more guards and 10 more spies and their family and equipment for every US embassay, how many billions per year are that?

To talk of "savings" for financial cuts in a state budged is stupid in 90+% of cases. You often lose on the deal. Because every dollar spend is a dollar earned. Every dollar income is a dollar expense. The question is only for whom. It's called a monetary circle in your 5th grade economic explanation for a reason.

[GuitarStv]

There's also the fact that increasing (rather than decreasing) funding to the IRS would bring in significantly more money by allowing the service to have the ability to enforce the law and have the resources to go after people who are dodging their tax obligations.

[jimmyshutter]

The USDS was launched on August 11, 2014, by President Barack Obama. It was renamed by President Trump in 2025 to DOGE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Digital_Service

[theninthwall]

The thing is that a lot of those "unneccessary" things are soft power. You know, the stuff that made China so successfull internationally in the last 20 years.

^ This. China is going to secure more far more global influence as a result of these cuts. Australia walked the same path a few years back in the south Pacific and China was more than happy to step into the gap. These cuts will wide widespread ramifications, especially in defense.

[GuitarStv]

The USDS was launched on August 11, 2014, by President Barack Obama. It was renamed by President Trump in 2025 to DOGE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Digital_Service

The pre-Trump USDS had nothing at all to do with what's going on right now.  From your own link:

The USDS was launched on August 11, 2014, by President Barack Obama. It provided consultation services to federal agencies on information technology. Its mandate was to improve and simplify digital service, and to improve federal websites.  Its mission was to "deliver better government services to the American people through technology and design".

The current mission of Trump's renamed USDS is to degrade and destroy the efficiency and operation of all government services to the American people by allowing a private citizen to usurp the power of congress and determine the spending of the nation.  Other than the acronym, there's nothing in common between the new/old versions of the agency . . . so I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here.

[jimmyshutter]

Doge has found people listed as still alive up to 200 years old within SSA. This has long been known by the Social Security Administration’s (SSA), which released an audit in July 2023 showing that 18.9 million people listed as 100 years or older — but not dead — were in the database.

https://www.aol.com/elon-musk-cries-fraud-20-215927532.html

The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud.

[GuitarStv]

Doge has found people listed as still alive up to 200 years old within SSA. This has long been known by the Social Security Administration’s (SSA), which released an audit in July 2023 showing that 18.9 million people listed as 100 years or older — but not dead — were in the database.

https://www.aol.com/elon-musk-cries-fraud-20-215927532.html

The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud.

How many of these people are receiving social security benefits?  Not too many.  By default the agency automatically stops payments to people who are older than 115 years old. (https://time.com/7258453/trump-musk-social-security-dead-fraud-fact-check/)  Currently, just 13 of those listed as age 112 or older in the country are receiving payments.(https://www.newsweek.com/social-security-over-100-payments-elon-musk-claims-2032774).  Doesn't seem like there's significant fraud going on, does there?

Part of the confusion comes from Social Security’s software system based on the COBOL programming language, which has a lack of date type. This means that some entries with missing or incomplete birthdates will default to a reference point of more than 150 years ago. The news organization WIRED first reported on the use of COBOL programming language at the Social Security Administration.  Musk has fired most of the administrators involved with maintaining this system, and replaced them with a few 20 year old junior programmers who don't understand the code base.

Additionally, a series of reports from the Social Security Administration’s inspector general in March 2023 and July 2024 state that the agency has not established a new system to properly annotate death information in its database, which included roughly 18.9 million Social Security numbers of people born in 1920 or earlier but were not marked as deceased. This does not mean, however, that these individuals were receiving benefits.  The agency decided not to update the database because of the cost to do so, which would run upward of $9 million and the people impacted were not receiving benefits.  It seemed like a waste to fix the problem of centenarian fraud, as there wasn't any.

This is indicative of the problem of looking at stuff you don't fully understand and then making erroneous claims (as Musk has repeatedly done) about it.  When you don't know what you are doing, many things that aren't problems can look like problems.  If only there was some sort of transparency or oversight to Musk and his team's actions, these mistakes could be corrected before they're told to the world as though they were truth.

[jimmyshutter]

This is from last week and not DOGE specific BUT....

Lee Zeldin said his staff is working to recover over $20 billion that was stashed outside the EPA by then-political appointees within the EPA under the Biden-Harris administration.

“EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin said he’s working to retrieve billions of dollars the Biden administration frantically shoveled to green energy and climate justice projects in the months before President Trump took office. 

“The money includes $20 billion that Biden officials deposited at Citibank, presumably to shield it from Trump administration officials…

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/icymi-administrator-lee-zeldin-announces-epa-found-billions-dollars-parked-outside#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20–%20U.S.%20Environmental%20Protection%20Agency,to%20fund%20partisan%20pet%20projects.

[jimmyshutter]

Doge has found people listed as still alive up to 200 years old within SSA. This has long been known by the Social Security Administration’s (SSA), which released an audit in July 2023 showing that 18.9 million people listed as 100 years or older — but not dead — were in the database.

https://www.aol.com/elon-musk-cries-fraud-20-215927532.html

The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud.

How many of these people are receiving social security benefits?  Not too many.  By default the agency automatically stops payments to people who are older than 115 years old. (https://time.com/7258453/trump-musk-social-security-dead-fraud-fact-check/)  Currently, just 13 of those listed as age 112 or older in the country are receiving payments.(https://www.newsweek.com/social-security-over-100-payments-elon-musk-claims-2032774).  Doesn't seem like there's significant fraud going on, does there?

Part of the confusion comes from Social Security’s software system based on the COBOL programming language, which has a lack of date type. This means that some entries with missing or incomplete birthdates will default to a reference point of more than 150 years ago. The news organization WIRED first reported on the use of COBOL programming language at the Social Security Administration.  Musk has fired most of the administrators involved with maintaining this system, and replaced them with a few 20 year old junior programmers who don't understand the code base.

Additionally, a series of reports from the Social Security Administration’s inspector general in March 2023 and July 2024 state that the agency has not established a new system to properly annotate death information in its database, which included roughly 18.9 million Social Security numbers of people born in 1920 or earlier but were not marked as deceased. This does not mean, however, that these individuals were receiving benefits.  The agency decided not to update the database because of the cost to do so, which would run upward of $9 million and the people impacted were not receiving benefits.  It seemed like a waste to fix the problem of centenarian fraud, as there wasn't any.

This is indicative of the problem of looking at stuff you don't fully understand and then making erroneous claims (as Musk has repeatedly done) about it.  When you don't know what you are doing, many things that aren't problems can look like problems.  If only there was some sort of transparency or oversight to Musk and his team's actions, these mistakes could be corrected before they're told to the world as though they were truth.

I did not make an erroneous claim on this topic? Elon Musk stated "According to the Social Security database, these are the numbers of people in each age bucket with the death field set to FALSE!" I don't believe that is a false claim either.

[GuitarStv]

Doge has found people listed as still alive up to 200 years old within SSA. This has long been known by the Social Security Administration’s (SSA), which released an audit in July 2023 showing that 18.9 million people listed as 100 years or older — but not dead — were in the database.

https://www.aol.com/elon-musk-cries-fraud-20-215927532.html

The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud.

How many of these people are receiving social security benefits?  Not too many.  By default the agency automatically stops payments to people who are older than 115 years old. (https://time.com/7258453/trump-musk-social-security-dead-fraud-fact-check/)  Currently, just 13 of those listed as age 112 or older in the country are receiving payments.(https://www.newsweek.com/social-security-over-100-payments-elon-musk-claims-2032774).  Doesn't seem like there's significant fraud going on, does there?

Part of the confusion comes from Social Security’s software system based on the COBOL programming language, which has a lack of date type. This means that some entries with missing or incomplete birthdates will default to a reference point of more than 150 years ago. The news organization WIRED first reported on the use of COBOL programming language at the Social Security Administration.  Musk has fired most of the administrators involved with maintaining this system, and replaced them with a few 20 year old junior programmers who don't understand the code base.

Additionally, a series of reports from the Social Security Administration’s inspector general in March 2023 and July 2024 state that the agency has not established a new system to properly annotate death information in its database, which included roughly 18.9 million Social Security numbers of people born in 1920 or earlier but were not marked as deceased. This does not mean, however, that these individuals were receiving benefits.  The agency decided not to update the database because of the cost to do so, which would run upward of $9 million and the people impacted were not receiving benefits.  It seemed like a waste to fix the problem of centenarian fraud, as there wasn't any.

This is indicative of the problem of looking at stuff you don't fully understand and then making erroneous claims (as Musk has repeatedly done) about it.  When you don't know what you are doing, many things that aren't problems can look like problems.  If only there was some sort of transparency or oversight to Musk and his team's actions, these mistakes could be corrected before they're told to the world as though they were truth.

What erroneous claims did I make on this topic?

"The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud." -  That is an erroneous claim for the many reasons mentioned.  To correct this non-issue would needlessly waste millions of taxpayer dollars . . . which (ostensibly) is the kind of thing that DOGE was founded to prevent.

[jimmyshutter]

Doge has found people listed as still alive up to 200 years old within SSA. This has long been known by the Social Security Administration’s (SSA), which released an audit in July 2023 showing that 18.9 million people listed as 100 years or older — but not dead — were in the database.

https://www.aol.com/elon-musk-cries-fraud-20-215927532.html

The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud.

How many of these people are receiving social security benefits?  Not too many.  By default the agency automatically stops payments to people who are older than 115 years old. (https://time.com/7258453/trump-musk-social-security-dead-fraud-fact-check/)  Currently, just 13 of those listed as age 112 or older in the country are receiving payments.(https://www.newsweek.com/social-security-over-100-payments-elon-musk-claims-2032774).  Doesn't seem like there's significant fraud going on, does there?

Part of the confusion comes from Social Security’s software system based on the COBOL programming language, which has a lack of date type. This means that some entries with missing or incomplete birthdates will default to a reference point of more than 150 years ago. The news organization WIRED first reported on the use of COBOL programming language at the Social Security Administration.  Musk has fired most of the administrators involved with maintaining this system, and replaced them with a few 20 year old junior programmers who don't understand the code base.

Additionally, a series of reports from the Social Security Administration’s inspector general in March 2023 and July 2024 state that the agency has not established a new system to properly annotate death information in its database, which included roughly 18.9 million Social Security numbers of people born in 1920 or earlier but were not marked as deceased. This does not mean, however, that these individuals were receiving benefits.  The agency decided not to update the database because of the cost to do so, which would run upward of $9 million and the people impacted were not receiving benefits.  It seemed like a waste to fix the problem of centenarian fraud, as there wasn't any.

This is indicative of the problem of looking at stuff you don't fully understand and then making erroneous claims (as Musk has repeatedly done) about it.  When you don't know what you are doing, many things that aren't problems can look like problems.  If only there was some sort of transparency or oversight to Musk and his team's actions, these mistakes could be corrected before they're told to the world as though they were truth.

What erroneous claims did I make on this topic?

"The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud." -  That is an erroneous claim for the many reasons mentioned.  To correct this non-issue would needlessly waste millions of taxpayer dollars . . . which (ostensibly) is the kind of thing that DOGE was founded to prevent.

Ok, I will retract my erroneous claim. Having SSN numbers as being active is not an invitation to fraud.

[GuitarStv]

Doge has found people listed as still alive up to 200 years old within SSA. This has long been known by the Social Security Administration’s (SSA), which released an audit in July 2023 showing that 18.9 million people listed as 100 years or older — but not dead — were in the database.

https://www.aol.com/elon-musk-cries-fraud-20-215927532.html

The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud.

How many of these people are receiving social security benefits?  Not too many.  By default the agency automatically stops payments to people who are older than 115 years old. (https://time.com/7258453/trump-musk-social-security-dead-fraud-fact-check/)  Currently, just 13 of those listed as age 112 or older in the country are receiving payments.(https://www.newsweek.com/social-security-over-100-payments-elon-musk-claims-2032774).  Doesn't seem like there's significant fraud going on, does there?

Part of the confusion comes from Social Security’s software system based on the COBOL programming language, which has a lack of date type. This means that some entries with missing or incomplete birthdates will default to a reference point of more than 150 years ago. The news organization WIRED first reported on the use of COBOL programming language at the Social Security Administration.  Musk has fired most of the administrators involved with maintaining this system, and replaced them with a few 20 year old junior programmers who don't understand the code base.

Additionally, a series of reports from the Social Security Administration’s inspector general in March 2023 and July 2024 state that the agency has not established a new system to properly annotate death information in its database, which included roughly 18.9 million Social Security numbers of people born in 1920 or earlier but were not marked as deceased. This does not mean, however, that these individuals were receiving benefits.  The agency decided not to update the database because of the cost to do so, which would run upward of $9 million and the people impacted were not receiving benefits.  It seemed like a waste to fix the problem of centenarian fraud, as there wasn't any.

This is indicative of the problem of looking at stuff you don't fully understand and then making erroneous claims (as Musk has repeatedly done) about it.  When you don't know what you are doing, many things that aren't problems can look like problems.  If only there was some sort of transparency or oversight to Musk and his team's actions, these mistakes could be corrected before they're told to the world as though they were truth.

What erroneous claims did I make on this topic?

"The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud." -  That is an erroneous claim for the many reasons mentioned.  To correct this non-issue would needlessly waste millions of taxpayer dollars . . . which (ostensibly) is the kind of thing that DOGE was founded to prevent.

Ok, I will retract my erroneous claim. Having SSN numbers as being active is not an invitation to fraud.

You were just believing what a very fallible man currently doing a job he's not qualified for (and after firing the people who understand the system), with no oversight told you.  It's easy to make this kind of mistake when listening to Musk.

[sonofsven]

Jimmyshutter, you are posting total bullshit on this thread. Do you really believe this stuff? You are incredibly naive if so.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2025/02/19/emil-bove-throwing-gold-bars-off-the-titanic/

Read the above for a description of what transpired, including the resignation of the head of the DC US Attorney Criminal Division when the DOJ tried to force her to write a letter to Citibank demanding the freezing of funds, for which she found no corroborating evidence to support, so she was forced out.

The current admin is lawless. They are feeding you propaganda.

[nessness]

The USDS was launched on August 11, 2014, by President Barack Obama. It was renamed by President Trump in 2025 to DOGE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Digital_Service

You seem to think liberals are against DOGE because we don't want to cut government waste, or don't think that it exists. But I really don't that's true. Most of us support cutting waste and fraud, when done in an orderly, transparent fashion, by qualified people with proper oversight and steps taken to limit conflicts of interest. What Musk and his team are doing is none of those things.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

The USDS was launched on August 11, 2014, by President Barack Obama. It was renamed by President Trump in 2025 to DOGE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Digital_Service

You seem to think liberals are against DOGE because we don't want to cut government waste, or don't think that it exists. But I really don't that's true. Most of us support cutting waste and fraud, when done in an orderly, transparent fashion, by qualified people with proper oversight and steps taken to limit conflicts of interest. What Musk and his team are doing is none of those things.

Yes, this. I don't know anyone who isn't interested in cutting waste.

[jimmyshutter]

Washington prosecutor probes threats against DOGE, names Schumer as target.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/washington-prosecutor-probes-threats-against-doge-names-schumer-target-2025-02-19/

Threats of violence should not be tolerated; sad if this is true. :(

[GuitarStv]

Washington prosecutor probes threats against DOGE, names Schumer as target.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/washington-prosecutor-probes-threats-against-doge-names-schumer-target-2025-02-19/

Threats of violence should not be tolerated; sad if this is true. :(

I think that Martin's "investigation" needs to be viewed in context.  From the article you posted:

On Tuesday, the top prosecutor in Martin's office overseeing criminal cases resigned after she said Martin pressured her to investigate a contract awarded during President Joe Biden's tenure and freeze the assets of the contract's recipient, even though there was not enough evidence to do so.

In his email on Wednesday, Martin said that his office has been "flooded with threats against those who helped free the January 6 prisoners."  However, Martin failed to mention the threats that federal prosecutors, FBI agents and judges are continuing to receive online from January 6 defendants after Trump granted them clemency on his first day back in office.

Do these sound to you like legitimate and above board investigations, or as though they're politically motivated actions and attacks (of the sort that Donald Trump promised would be coming after his election (https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/trump-has-threatened-dozens-of-times-to-use-the-government-to-target-political-enemies/)?

FWIW, I agree that threats of violence should not be tolerated.  That's why I find Martin's toleration of threats of violence from the Jan 6 criminals that Trump pardoned disturbing.

[oldtoyota]

Washington prosecutor probes threats against DOGE, names Schumer as target.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/washington-prosecutor-probes-threats-against-doge-names-schumer-target-2025-02-19/

Threats of violence should not be tolerated; sad if this is true. :(

I agree threats of violence are bad, so I remain mystified as to why Trump would release 1500 convicted January 6 criminals into our communities.

I have to think you're a troll sent here to rouse up people on this board. Hopefully, the mods will handle you.

[Cannot Wait!]

Personally I like it when Trumpsters join the discussion.  Otherwise it's just us sitting around asking, "WTF were they thinking?!?".
I appreciate the insights and hope we can learn from each other...

[rab-bit]

And now they will use the "savings" to buy favor with voters:

Elon Musk will check with Trump on idea for tax refunds from DOGE savings
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/19/elon-musk-will-check-with-trump-on-idea-for-tax-refunds-from-doge-savings.html?__source=androidappshare

You do have to admire their creativity.

[Scandium]

I clicked on some random ones. Besides the fact this shit could be totally made up by the groiper dweebs in DOGE, several of them seem to be canceling real estate leases. Including millions for HHS. So the departments are just doing to cease to exist? Or they'll need to have offices somewhere!
But I get that's their ultimate goal is to just demolish everything.

Also; canceled "leadership training". Great way to make things more efficient; crappy leadership!

others;
DIGITAL MODERNIZATION PROGRAM
SUPPORT FOR EDUCATION DEPARTMENT'S CENTRAL AUTOMATED PROCESSING SYSTEM (EDCAPS)

Cutting efforts to make government more digital/efficient; good job guys


Finally one I can get behind:
That is way too much to spend on pesto for one conference room!
$901,579 Savings. $3,688,070  Total Contract
PESTO TO 0003

[Travis]

And now they will use the "savings" to buy favor with voters:

Elon Musk will check with Trump on idea for tax refunds from DOGE savings
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/19/elon-musk-will-check-with-trump-on-idea-for-tax-refunds-from-doge-savings.html?__source=androidappshare

You do have to admire their creativity.

Elon has been telling us for months that he needs full access to set fire to the federal government because the debt is outrageous. Guess it's not that big a problem then?

[oldtoyota]

Reuters reports DJT fired workers who aren't funded by taxpayers.

These efforts were never about saving money. Just step one of Curtis Yarvin's plan to create a monarchy.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-is-firing-federal-workers-who-are-not-funded-by-taxpayers-2025-02-21/

[sonofsven]

In a sane world the claim of $55 billion in fraud found by DOGE and trumpeted on a government website, with lots of questionable math (like 8 million dollar contracts suddenly worth 8 billion) and absolutely zero evidence, would itself be considered fraud.

[Poundwise]

Doge has found people listed as still alive up to 200 years old within SSA. This has long been known by the Social Security Administration’s (SSA), which released an audit in July 2023 showing that 18.9 million people listed as 100 years or older — but not dead — were in the database.

https://www.aol.com/elon-musk-cries-fraud-20-215927532.html

The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud.

How many of these people are receiving social security benefits?  Not too many.  By default the agency automatically stops payments to people who are older than 115 years old. (https://time.com/7258453/trump-musk-social-security-dead-fraud-fact-check/)  Currently, just 13 of those listed as age 112 or older in the country are receiving payments.(https://www.newsweek.com/social-security-over-100-payments-elon-musk-claims-2032774).  Doesn't seem like there's significant fraud going on, does there?

Part of the confusion comes from Social Security’s software system based on the COBOL programming language, which has a lack of date type. This means that some entries with missing or incomplete birthdates will default to a reference point of more than 150 years ago. The news organization WIRED first reported on the use of COBOL programming language at the Social Security Administration.  Musk has fired most of the administrators involved with maintaining this system, and replaced them with a few 20 year old junior programmers who don't understand the code base.

Additionally, a series of reports from the Social Security Administration’s inspector general in March 2023 and July 2024 state that the agency has not established a new system to properly annotate death information in its database, which included roughly 18.9 million Social Security numbers of people born in 1920 or earlier but were not marked as deceased. This does not mean, however, that these individuals were receiving benefits.  The agency decided not to update the database because of the cost to do so, which would run upward of $9 million and the people impacted were not receiving benefits.  It seemed like a waste to fix the problem of centenarian fraud, as there wasn't any.

This is indicative of the problem of looking at stuff you don't fully understand and then making erroneous claims (as Musk has repeatedly done) about it.  When you don't know what you are doing, many things that aren't problems can look like problems.  If only there was some sort of transparency or oversight to Musk and his team's actions, these mistakes could be corrected before they're told to the world as though they were truth.

What erroneous claims did I make on this topic?

"The majority of these SSN numbers need to be marked as "deceased" as this is only an invitation to fraud." -  That is an erroneous claim for the many reasons mentioned.  To correct this non-issue would needlessly waste millions of taxpayer dollars . . . which (ostensibly) is the kind of thing that DOGE was founded to prevent.

Ok, I will retract my erroneous claim. Having SSN numbers as being active is not an invitation to fraud.

It takes a big person to admit error.  Thank you. Everyone is learning here.

[uniwelder]

In a sane world the claim of $55 billion in fraud found by DOGE and trumpeted on a government website, with lots of questionable math (like 8 million dollar contracts suddenly worth 8 billion) and absolutely zero evidence, would itself be considered fraud.

There was an analysis done that shows actual cuts so far have amounted to $2 billion dollars.  This amounts to 0.03% of federal expenditures.  Story is here--- https://www.npr.org/2025/02/19/nx-s1-5302705/doge-overstates-savings-federal-contracts

55 went to 16 when the numbers were actually added according to the DOGE website, which then got reduced to 8.5 when taking the 1,000x typo into account.  From that $8.5 billion, only $2 billion has actually been cancelled as of the writing of the article two days ago.

edited to add--- @jimmyshutter you've been putting up a whole bunch of erroneous information.  Each time someone refutes your claim, you've simply moved on to another fallacy.

[oldtoyota]

Look at all the money they're "saving." LOL

Trump to spend $200M on anti-immigrant advertising featuring Kristi Noem "thanking" him for his work.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-musk-admin-ads-immigration-homeland-security-noem-1235271900/


Secretary Hegseth to have taxpayers fund the updates to his taxpayer-provided home in Washington, DC.

A week after Democratic lawmakers demanded answers, Pentagon officials are staying tight-lipped about a six-figure taxpayer-funded effort to upgrade the soon-to-be home of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth while the secretary himself has taken to attacking reporters who cover the story.

What they have confirmed is that the secretary of defense will follow a 2008 law and pay rent, though the figure appears to be well below market value for housing in the Washington, D.C., area.

Hegseth is eyeing a move into military family housing at Fort McNair, a historic Army installation tucked away in southwest D.C., where the Anacostia and Potomac rivers meet. But before he moves in, at least $137,000 in repairs have been requested -- among them, a $50,000 paint job. Who initiated the request remains murky, but as head of the Pentagon, Hegseth ultimately has the final say on anything that happens in the department.

The cost breakdown has raised eyebrows, particularly since it comes at a time when other officials in the Trump administration -- namely, Elon Musk -- have been gutting government contracts and firing swaths of federal employees in the name of cost savings. Military families have also struggled for years to get repairs made to base housing, an issue that has triggered multiple congressional inquiries...

Meanwhile, Hegeseth himself has taken to criticizing reports about the repairs on his home on social media, by claiming that the repairs were initiated by the department he now oversees and not him personally while mocking the Fox News reporter who covers the Pentagon and posted on social media about the lawmakers' letter.
Related: Hegseth Wants $50,000 for 'Emergency' Paint Job to Move into Military Family Housing, Lawmakers Say

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/02/14/pentagon-offers-few-details-hegseths-137000-housing-upgrades-secretary-will-pay-rent.html

[bmjohnson35]

 "Most of us support cutting waste and fraud, when done in an orderly, transparent fashion, by qualified people with proper oversight and steps taken to limit conflicts of interest. What Musk and his team are doing is none of those things."
[/quote]

This is probably the most succinct description of the situatoin right now.  It certainly doesn't include the hard right, but I do believe that a lot of are concerned with the present approach.

[bmjohnson35]

Personally I like it when Trumpsters join the discussion.  Otherwise it's just us sitting around asking, "WTF were they thinking?!?".
I appreciate the insights and hope we can learn from each other...

Agreed. Division and Misinformation are probably two of the biggest challenges we face in society today. 
 
As far as I'm concerned, both parties are to blame for our present situation.  Trump didn't get into office because the majority of voters were MAGA Trump devotees.  There was a percentage that voted against flawed policies of the Democratic Party, the Biden administration or perceived broken government establishment.  Just like most agree that the government needs to be audited and cleaned up, many of us don't approve of the present questionable wrecking ball methodology.  Similarly, I'm confident most people feel a properly managed legal immigration process is a benefit to the country.  If the system isn't working, it should be changed to reach the outcome(s) desired.  On the other hand, how the Biden administration handled it, it was an ongoing disaster.  Unfortunately, even if one party puts forth new legislation on a key issue, the other party seeks to sabotage it or is unwilling to find common ground for a reasonable way forward.  I've seen this from both parties and as long as our elected officials continue this way, we won't make meaningful progress.