Author Topic: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?  (Read 75035 times)

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #800 on: February 05, 2018, 05:07:34 PM »
From The Atlantic today.

Republicans and independents take note.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/boycott-the-gop/550907/

Yup, and as soon as you realize the Democratic party isn't a "good universe" version of the GOP but rather a different side of the same corrupt, tribal, authoritarian coin, you can join the rest of us who "waste" our votes on third party candidates.

I get the impression you didn't read the article at all.

Yeah, I think that's fairly obvious.

*sigh*

The erosion of the rule of law, while especially egregious under Trump, has been fairly consistent for as long as I've been paying attention, which is essentially since Clinton1.  At first it was spectacle that took a harsh turn towards a dark place at 9/11.  But you can't really say the Democrats are the "we respect the law" party after the utter travesty of that last nomination choice.  In the game of pick your future felon, we lose no matter what.

https://youtu.be/w7NeRiNefO0

But clearly since I don't agree with you, I didn't read. Because I suggested an alternate strategy that I believe has far more chance of bringing about actual reform, I'm dismissed.

Definitely voting for the party of open-mindedness!

No. I didn't write the article.

It seems clear you didn't read the article because the things you are saying don't really engage or address what the article actually says.

Yes, they do.  He didn't go point by point to make rebuttals, but if you don't think it was responsive, maybe you didn't read the article???

If you think that was any sort of response to the article, then I can’t help you.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #801 on: February 05, 2018, 05:08:36 PM »
So, how ‘bout that Dow Jones, eh?

Yup. Electing that businessman is sure working out for America.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/trump-stock-market-down-324880
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #802 on: February 05, 2018, 05:44:34 PM »
So, how ‘bout that Dow Jones, eh?
Yup. Electing that businessman is sure working out for America.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/trump-stock-market-down-324880
If you are going credit or blame daily market swings to the president, you should also give him credit for the market being up 15%+ since his inauguration (even with the recent pull back).

I'm of the camp that thinks the president's power to affect the economy (good or bad) is generally far overstated.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #803 on: February 05, 2018, 07:26:53 PM »
So, how ‘bout that Dow Jones, eh?
Yup. Electing that businessman is sure working out for America.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/trump-stock-market-down-324880
If you are going credit or blame daily market swings to the president, you should also give him credit for the market being up 15%+ since his inauguration (even with the recent pull back).

I'm of the camp that thinks the president's power to affect the economy (good or bad) is generally far overstated.

Yes, generally speaking, it certainly is. In this case, we have a president who doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing and doesn’t care, and just handed the GOP Congress a unique opportunity for a bold-faced money grab that leads us down this path.

Another perspective from Yahoo Finance.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-investors-nervous-stocks-right-now-171447766.html
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 08:25:13 PM by Kris »
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Just Joe

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #804 on: February 06, 2018, 07:28:46 AM »
Wait - which party is the party of open-mindedness?

DarkandStormy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #805 on: February 06, 2018, 07:42:30 AM »
So, how ‘bout that Dow Jones, eh?
Yup. Electing that businessman is sure working out for America.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/trump-stock-market-down-324880
If you are going credit or blame daily market swings to the president, you should also give him credit for the market being up 15%+ since his inauguration (even with the recent pull back).

I'm of the camp that thinks the president's power to affect the economy (good or bad) is generally far overstated.

You're kind of missing the point.  Trump bragged (stupidly) about new stock record after new stock record which he had nothing to do with (Thanks, Yellen).  Now he's quiet with the market dropping.

All the major indecies increased drastically better under Obama's first year than Trump's if he wants to play the stock market headline game.
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former player

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #806 on: February 06, 2018, 07:57:53 AM »
So, how ‘bout that Dow Jones, eh?
Yup. Electing that businessman is sure working out for America.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/trump-stock-market-down-324880
If you are going credit or blame daily market swings to the president, you should also give him credit for the market being up 15%+ since his inauguration (even with the recent pull back).

I'm of the camp that thinks the president's power to affect the economy (good or bad) is generally far overstated.

You're kind of missing the point.  Trump bragged (stupidly) about new stock record after new stock record which he had nothing to do with (Thanks, Yellen).  Now he's quiet with the market dropping.

All the major indecies increased drastically better under Obama's first year than Trump's if he wants to play the stock market headline game.
The major indeces increased more under Obama's first year because they were recovering from a low base - it's an economic truism that rapid improvement is easier from a low base.

Part of Trump's stupidity, in addition to bragging about something out of his control is that in hyping stock market returns under his Presidency he was choosing to play a game he couldn't win.

Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #807 on: February 06, 2018, 08:00:42 AM »
So, how ‘bout that Dow Jones, eh?
Yup. Electing that businessman is sure working out for America.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/trump-stock-market-down-324880
If you are going credit or blame daily market swings to the president, you should also give him credit for the market being up 15%+ since his inauguration (even with the recent pull back).

I'm of the camp that thinks the president's power to affect the economy (good or bad) is generally far overstated.

You're kind of missing the point.  Trump bragged (stupidly) about new stock record after new stock record which he had nothing to do with (Thanks, Yellen).  Now he's quiet with the market dropping.

All the major indecies increased drastically better under Obama's first year than Trump's if he wants to play the stock market headline game.
The major indeces increased more under Obama's first year because they were recovering from a low base - it's an economic truism that rapid improvement is easier from a low base.

Part of Trump's stupidity, in addition to bragging about something out of his control is that in hyping stock market returns under his Presidency he was choosing to play a game he couldn't win.

Trump's own Secretary of the Treasury, Steve Mnuchin has said the same thing -- that the stock market is the Trump administration's report card.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/23/mnuchin-the-stock-market-is-the-trump-administrations-report-card.html

Which means that Mnuchin is too stupid to do his job, or he's a lying sack of shit just like the president is.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

GuitarStv

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #808 on: February 06, 2018, 08:08:50 AM »
Or he's a deep state operative trying to bring down the one good man in politics right now.   :D

cliffhanger

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #809 on: February 06, 2018, 08:14:16 AM »
Wait - which party is the party of open-mindedness?

Most recently? The right. Even though the polarization we have faced recently by each side is very bad for our nation, the left has gone off the deep end.

Among other things, they have:

Banned pro-life women from the Woman's March.

Caused enormous security fees for conservative speakers due to threats of violence.

Pushed normally liberal people away.

From the last link:
Quote
Today's progressivism has become a faux-moral movement hurling charges of racism, bigotry, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and a slew of other meaningless buzzwords at anyone they disagree with.

The battle of ideas has been replaced by a battle of feelings, and outrage has replaced honesty. Diversity reigns supreme, as long as it’s not that pesky diversity of thought.

This isn’t the recipe for a free society, it’s a recipe for authoritarianism.

For these reasons, I can no longer call myself a progressive. I don’t really call myself a Democrat either. I’m a classical liberal, a free thinker, and as much as I don’t like to admit it, defending my liberal values has suddenly become a conservative position

-Dave Rubin

I personally was not attracted to the right in my vote for Trump, I was pushed from the left.

GuitarStv

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #810 on: February 06, 2018, 08:27:09 AM »
Wait - which party is the party of open-mindedness?

Most recently? The right. Even though the polarization we have faced recently by each side is very bad for our nation, the left has gone off the deep end.

Among other things, they have:

Banned pro-life women from the Woman's March.

Caused enormous security fees for conservative speakers due to threats of violence.

Pushed normally liberal people away.

From the last link:
Quote
Today's progressivism has become a faux-moral movement hurling charges of racism, bigotry, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and a slew of other meaningless buzzwords at anyone they disagree with.

The battle of ideas has been replaced by a battle of feelings, and outrage has replaced honesty. Diversity reigns supreme, as long as it’s not that pesky diversity of thought.

This isn’t the recipe for a free society, it’s a recipe for authoritarianism.

For these reasons, I can no longer call myself a progressive. I don’t really call myself a Democrat either. I’m a classical liberal, a free thinker, and as much as I don’t like to admit it, defending my liberal values has suddenly become a conservative position

-Dave Rubin

I personally was not attracted to the right in my vote for Trump, I was pushed from the left.

Agreed, the right is much more inclusive.  They happily court and support the type of people that the left wants nothing to do with:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/arthur-jones-republican-nomination_us_5a77d3f6e4b0905433b5bd84

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-shithole-countries-neo-nazis-white-supremacists-celebrate-more-or-less-same-page-racist-a8157796.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/neo-nazis-celebrate-trumps-remarks-about-charlottesville-riots-2017-8

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #811 on: February 06, 2018, 08:40:29 AM »
Wait - which party is the party of open-mindedness?

Most recently? The right. Even though the polarization we have faced recently by each side is very bad for our nation, the left has gone off the deep end.

Among other things, they have:

Banned pro-life women from the Woman's March.

Caused enormous security fees for conservative speakers due to threats of violence.

Pushed normally liberal people away.

From the last link:
Quote
Today's progressivism has become a faux-moral movement hurling charges of racism, bigotry, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and a slew of other meaningless buzzwords at anyone they disagree with.

The battle of ideas has been replaced by a battle of feelings, and outrage has replaced honesty. Diversity reigns supreme, as long as it’s not that pesky diversity of thought.

This isn’t the recipe for a free society, it’s a recipe for authoritarianism.

For these reasons, I can no longer call myself a progressive. I don’t really call myself a Democrat either. I’m a classical liberal, a free thinker, and as much as I don’t like to admit it, defending my liberal values has suddenly become a conservative position

-Dave Rubin

I personally was not attracted to the right in my vote for Trump, I was pushed from the left.

If you look at the Republicans of even 20 years ago, it's clear it is the right who have gone off the deep end. At the very least conservatives were constitutionalists. But the current administration has made many statements that if enacted, would undermine the constitution, specificially checks and balances.

I think you conflating people you see on the "left" with the Democratic party positions and legislation. If you look at party positions and legislation of the Democratic party, versus what kinds of legislation the current Republican party and this administration in particular have done, there are still moderate Democrats but the Republican party is under the control of a minority of far right views. It is telling that, if you looked at the policy positions of Hillary Clinton, she is a moderate or even conservative Democrat. in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 10:20:20 AM by partgypsy »

MasterStache

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #812 on: February 06, 2018, 08:45:34 AM »
Wait - which party is the party of open-mindedness?

Most recently? The right.

LMAO, the party of the alt-right, "some" Neo-Nazi's are good people, "some" Mexicans are good people, "shit-hole countries," gay conversion therapy, Roy Moore support, Muslim ban, I could go on and on.

Definitely pales in comparison though to much higher speaking fees. Oh the horror!!!!

cliffhanger

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #813 on: February 06, 2018, 08:48:42 AM »
Oooh, using neo-nazi groups as a representative of the republican party and assuming that republicans are welcoming of them into the party... what an original and logical argument!

Spoiler alert: Arthur Jones is going to lose. He's a despicable human being. The republican party is not supporting his run at all. From the article you provided:
Quote
“The Illinois Republican Party and our country have no place for Nazis like Arthur Jones,” Tim Schneider, chairman of the Illinois Republican Party, told the Sun-Times. “We strongly oppose his racist views and his candidacy for any public office, including the 3rd Congressional District.”

There are about 8000 klan members and 3000 neo-nazis in the US. The republican party does not court these losers.

Contrast that proportionality to the examples I used.

GuitarStv

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #814 on: February 06, 2018, 09:14:02 AM »
Oooh, using neo-nazi groups as a representative of the republican party and assuming that republicans are welcoming of them into the party... what an original and logical argument!

Spoiler alert: Arthur Jones is going to lose. He's a despicable human being. The republican party is not supporting his run at all. From the article you provided:
Quote
“The Illinois Republican Party and our country have no place for Nazis like Arthur Jones,” Tim Schneider, chairman of the Illinois Republican Party, told the Sun-Times. “We strongly oppose his racist views and his candidacy for any public office, including the 3rd Congressional District.”

There are about 8000 klan members and 3000 neo-nazis in the US. The republican party does not court these losers.

Contrast that proportionality to the examples I used.

Meh.  You choose silly examples, you get silly examples right back.

I suspect that there are similar numbers of people on the left in favour of suppressing free speech through violence as there are people on the right who support nazis.  The democratic party certainly doesn't court those losers.

I'd say that the women's march is probably about as "left" as the privately organized nazi protest march that happened in Charlottesville is "right".  It's just a group of people who want to get together with like minded folks to march for what they believe in . . . and certainly doesn't speak for every person in the political spectrum that they're most closely associated with.

Jrr85

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #815 on: February 06, 2018, 09:16:18 AM »
So, how ‘bout that Dow Jones, eh?
Yup. Electing that businessman is sure working out for America.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/trump-stock-market-down-324880
If you are going credit or blame daily market swings to the president, you should also give him credit for the market being up 15%+ since his inauguration (even with the recent pull back).

I'm of the camp that thinks the president's power to affect the economy (good or bad) is generally far overstated.

You're kind of missing the point.  Trump bragged (stupidly) about new stock record after new stock record which he had nothing to do with (Thanks, Yellen).  Now he's quiet with the market dropping.

All the major indecies increased drastically better under Obama's first year than Trump's if he wants to play the stock market headline game.
The major indeces increased more under Obama's first year because they were recovering from a low base - it's an economic truism that rapid improvement is easier from a low base.

Part of Trump's stupidity, in addition to bragging about something out of his control is that in hyping stock market returns under his Presidency he was choosing to play a game he couldn't win.

You are giving a lot of credit to US voters.  Trump is just Obama on steroids as far as living for the current news cycle and recognizing that the attention span (or lack thereof) of the voter doesn't require any kind of consistency from one news cycle to the next.  When the stock market is doing well, he'll pound on the stock market, when it's doing poorly, he'll pound on jobs numbers, if they turn, he'll pound on immigration, etc.  He's also Obama on steroids as far as using his insane marketing and interpersonal skills and charisma as a crutch that allows him to coast on substance.  I'm still in awe that he looks like a ridiculous caricature and is able to manipulate/persuade people the way he does. 

bacchi

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #816 on: February 06, 2018, 09:36:08 AM »
You're kind of missing the point.  Trump bragged (stupidly) about new stock record after new stock record which he had nothing to do with (Thanks, Yellen).  Now he's quiet with the market dropping.

In a beautiful segment on Fox, Trump was talking about MAGA and the great economy with the split screen showing the market drop. Fox dropped his speech partway through.

http://www.fox10tv.com/story/37432213/trumps-embarrassing-split-screen-moment-on-stocks

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zoltani

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #817 on: February 06, 2018, 09:45:43 AM »
These days the alt right = anyone I don't agree with. We have people calling Steven Pinker and Jordan Peterson alt right, it's become a joke. People are throwing around that term too loosely.
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Dabnasty

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #818 on: February 06, 2018, 09:49:33 AM »
Wait - which party is the party of open-mindedness?
Most recently? The right. Even though the polarization we have faced recently by each side is very bad for our nation, the left has gone off the deep end.
The "right" is not a party. And all of the things you've cited as problems with the left are not supported by the Democratic party.

You're right that the actual list of klan members and outspoken neo-nazis is short but since we're talking about parties, what's relevant is the support* that the president has given them. He's spread the message of these extremist groups by retweeting false statistics and video "evidence" that was taken entirely out of context that originated on the accounts of klan members and nazis. These things cause direct damage to entire racial and religious groups and they encourage close mindedness by increasing fear of the unknown (other races/religions).

And again, if we're talking about parties, I would agree Arthur Jones is a non issue in terms of this discussion. Roy Moore on the other hand received the President's and many other republicans' support. That is AFTER he voiced his opinion on multiple occasions that homosexuals should be punished for their choices. He was once asked if they should be put to death, his response: “Well I don’t, you know, I’m not here to outline any punishments for sodomy." This should have been a resounding "No". And while this was all before the highly credible accusations of sexual abuse to underage girls surfaced, Republicans maintained their support for him after the fact.

If this doesn't at least make you think a little, perhaps we could discuss the scientific evidence that suggests not only are those on the right more close minded but even that as people become more closed minded they also drift towards the right. Really shouldn't come as a surprise considering we also tend to label the parties as conservative and progressive. And by the way this article isn't accusing anyone of anything, it only points out behavioral differences between groups of people and suggests some of the pros and cons.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/calling-truce-political-wars/

*If you take issue with my use of the word "support" here, you've got your political blinders on. He has absolutely put wind in the sails of these organizations.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 09:57:03 AM by Dabnasty »

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #819 on: February 06, 2018, 10:31:00 AM »
These days the alt right = anyone I don't agree with. We have people calling Steven Pinker and Jordan Peterson alt right, it's become a joke. People are throwing around that term too loosely.

Yeah, but the connection between Trump and the emboldening of the alt-right, it's not something imaginary. He had Bannon, who ran Breitbart, as his right hand man for months, and the rumor was in addition to having his ear, helped write his talking points. And his cabinet is an alt-right wet dream.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-president-latest-cabinet-sessions-flynn-pompeo-racist-mike-a7426046.html
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 10:33:13 AM by partgypsy »

sol

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #820 on: February 06, 2018, 10:33:02 AM »
Spoiler alert: Arthur Jones is going to lose. He's a despicable human being. The republican party is not supporting his run at all.

Funny, this argument is strangely familiar for some reason.  I'm having flashbacks to like February 2016, when every republican in the country was denouncing Trump. 

MrMoogle

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #821 on: February 06, 2018, 11:18:24 AM »
*snip stuff about Hillary Clinton*
in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
I never understood why using Europe as a metric meant anything.  Why is mentioning this relevant?

None of those countries are considered super powers, which means their budgets are going to be extremely different.  If you compare to the other two super powers, she'd be extremely liberal.

talltexan

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #822 on: February 06, 2018, 12:40:24 PM »
Please name--for the record--the two super powers to which you're alluding.

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #823 on: February 06, 2018, 12:46:42 PM »
*snip stuff about Hillary Clinton*
in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
I never understood why using Europe as a metric meant anything.  Why is mentioning this relevant?

None of those countries are considered super powers, which means their budgets are going to be extremely different.  If you compare to the other two super powers, she'd be extremely liberal.
Because they are developed countries with democratic processes, neither controlled by dictatorships or communists. Why, who do you think we should compare ourselves to?

MrMoogle

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #824 on: February 06, 2018, 01:21:46 PM »
*snip stuff about Hillary Clinton*
in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
I never understood why using Europe as a metric meant anything.  Why is mentioning this relevant?

None of those countries are considered super powers, which means their budgets are going to be extremely different.  If you compare to the other two super powers, she'd be extremely liberal.
Because they are developed countries with democratic processes, neither controlled by dictatorships or communists. Why, who do you think we should compare ourselves to?

What is the point of the comparison though?  I don't understand what this information is supposed to convey.

There must be an assumption that you are making that I am not.  That European countries are the goal or they are doing better than we are, or something like that.

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #825 on: February 06, 2018, 01:35:53 PM »
*snip stuff about Hillary Clinton*
in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
I never understood why using Europe as a metric meant anything.  Why is mentioning this relevant?

None of those countries are considered super powers, which means their budgets are going to be extremely different.  If you compare to the other two super powers, she'd be extremely liberal.
Because they are developed countries with democratic processes, neither controlled by dictatorships or communists. Why, who do you think we should compare ourselves to?

What is the point of the comparison though?  I don't understand what this information is supposed to convey.

There must be an assumption that you are making that I am not.  That European countries are the goal or they are doing better than we are, or something like that.

It's relevant, and in response to the statement that the "Left" in the United States have gone off the deep end (have become more extreme, or more left). To examine that statement, you have to have a comparison. You can examine the recent history of the Democratic and Republican parties. You can also compare our system to other democratic systems, where if you place the Democratic and Republican parties to other parties in democratic political system countries, our Democratic party would be considered centrist, while the current Republican party would not. It would be closer to the fascist parties. If you want to argue that the Republican party is not that extreme, only by comparing us to countries like China and Russia which do not adhere to democratic processes, well, you are kind of proving my point.   
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 02:43:06 PM by partgypsy »

MrMoogle

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #826 on: February 06, 2018, 02:23:47 PM »
*snip stuff about Hillary Clinton*
in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
I never understood why using Europe as a metric meant anything.  Why is mentioning this relevant?

None of those countries are considered super powers, which means their budgets are going to be extremely different.  If you compare to the other two super powers, she'd be extremely liberal.
Because they are developed countries with democratic processes, neither controlled by dictatorships or communists. Why, who do you think we should compare ourselves to?

What is the point of the comparison though?  I don't understand what this information is supposed to convey.

There must be an assumption that you are making that I am not.  That European countries are the goal or they are doing better than we are, or something like that.

It's relevant, and in response to the statement that the "Left" in the United States have gone off the deep end (have become more extreme, or more left). To examine that statement, you have to have a comparison. You can examine the recent history of the Democratic and Republican parties. You can also compare our system to other democratic systems, where if you place the Democratic and Republican parties to other parties in democratic political system countries, our Democratic party would be considered centrist, while the current Republican party would not. It would be closer to the fascist parties. If you want to argue that the Republican party is not that extreme, only by comparing us to countries like China and Russia which do not adhere to democratic processes, well, you are kind of proving my point.   
I was definitely missing your point, that's why I asked.  I was hoping that was obvious.

By mentioning China and Russia, I wasn't trying to say that was the bar that we must strive to be better than.  I was attempting to point out if you are just taking one similarity, and I thought you were tying it to our dominant (Western) European ancestry, you can come up with either answer. 

I also bring up the super power thing because that sets us apart from all European countries.  I know the Dems want to reduce military spending, but I haven't heard any politicians arguing that we should no longer be a super power.  (I'm sure there are individuals that believe that though.)  I think this is the main reason we cannot/should not have the same social policies as they do.  Military is such a drain on our Federal budget.

Therefore, I don't think comparing us to European countries is very insightful.

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #827 on: February 06, 2018, 02:28:21 PM »
*snip stuff about Hillary Clinton*
in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
I never understood why using Europe as a metric meant anything.  Why is mentioning this relevant?

None of those countries are considered super powers, which means their budgets are going to be extremely different.  If you compare to the other two super powers, she'd be extremely liberal.
Because they are developed countries with democratic processes, neither controlled by dictatorships or communists. Why, who do you think we should compare ourselves to?

What is the point of the comparison though?  I don't understand what this information is supposed to convey.

There must be an assumption that you are making that I am not.  That European countries are the goal or they are doing better than we are, or something like that.

In general (for much of Europe, at least), Europeans have longer life expectancies, have lower murder rates, have higher "happiness" ratings, lead generally healthier lives.

Sources:
https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/09/health/american-life-expectancy-shorter-than-europeans/index.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-vs-western-homicide-rates-2014-11
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/report-americans-less-healthy-die-younger-than-global-peers
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partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #828 on: February 06, 2018, 02:37:05 PM »
*snip stuff about Hillary Clinton*
in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
I never understood why using Europe as a metric meant anything.  Why is mentioning this relevant?

None of those countries are considered super powers, which means their budgets are going to be extremely different.  If you compare to the other two super powers, she'd be extremely liberal.
Because they are developed countries with democratic processes, neither controlled by dictatorships or communists. Why, who do you think we should compare ourselves to?

What is the point of the comparison though?  I don't understand what this information is supposed to convey.

There must be an assumption that you are making that I am not.  That European countries are the goal or they are doing better than we are, or something like that.

It's relevant, and in response to the statement that the "Left" in the United States have gone off the deep end (have become more extreme, or more left). To examine that statement, you have to have a comparison. You can examine the recent history of the Democratic and Republican parties. You can also compare our system to other democratic systems, where if you place the Democratic and Republican parties to other parties in democratic political system countries, our Democratic party would be considered centrist, while the current Republican party would not. It would be closer to the fascist parties. If you want to argue that the Republican party is not that extreme, only by comparing us to countries like China and Russia which do not adhere to democratic processes, well, you are kind of proving my point.   
I was definitely missing your point, that's why I asked.  I was hoping that was obvious.

By mentioning China and Russia, I wasn't trying to say that was the bar that we must strive to be better than.  I was attempting to point out if you are just taking one similarity, and I thought you were tying it to our dominant (Western) European ancestry, you can come up with either answer. 

I also bring up the super power thing because that sets us apart from all European countries.  I know the Dems want to reduce military spending, but I haven't heard any politicians arguing that we should no longer be a super power.  (I'm sure there are individuals that believe that though.)  I think this is the main reason we cannot/should not have the same social policies as they do.  Military is such a drain on our Federal budget.

Therefore, I don't think comparing us to European countries is very insightful.

It was simply in the response to that the perception of some, that the Democratic party is going more left, when in reality it is the Republican party which has changed the most in the last decade or so, in troubling ways. The Military spending is a separate issue. But I think voters can certainly ask if the levels appropriated to our military are appropriate, given that we spend 3x what the next superpower (China) spends, and more than 8 of the next highest military spending countries, combined. When you look at wasteful spending, military is fair game, especially in the current climate where CDC programs for example, are being cut 80%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

All government programs are under scrunity. Yet the DOD cannot account for literally trillions of dollars. This is a problem. One that should not be rewarded by throwing more money at them, which is what Trump proposes. 
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/dod_financial_management/issue_summary
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 02:47:45 PM by partgypsy »

OneCoolCat

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #829 on: February 06, 2018, 02:56:02 PM »
Registered Republican.  First time in my life that I did not vote Republican.  I do regret my decision as I voted third-party and we got stuck with Trump.

With the stuff in the news, i.e. GOP obstruction of Russian investigation, "fake news", "treasonous democrats", tax bill, stupid wall, Chinese creation of global warming, and assault riffle blinders, I think I'm going to vote Democrat going forward. 
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 03:00:22 PM by OneCoolCat »
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MrMoogle

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #830 on: February 06, 2018, 03:17:05 PM »
*snip stuff about Hillary Clinton*
in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
I never understood why using Europe as a metric meant anything.  Why is mentioning this relevant?

None of those countries are considered super powers, which means their budgets are going to be extremely different.  If you compare to the other two super powers, she'd be extremely liberal.
Because they are developed countries with democratic processes, neither controlled by dictatorships or communists. Why, who do you think we should compare ourselves to?

What is the point of the comparison though?  I don't understand what this information is supposed to convey.

There must be an assumption that you are making that I am not.  That European countries are the goal or they are doing better than we are, or something like that.

It's relevant, and in response to the statement that the "Left" in the United States have gone off the deep end (have become more extreme, or more left). To examine that statement, you have to have a comparison. You can examine the recent history of the Democratic and Republican parties. You can also compare our system to other democratic systems, where if you place the Democratic and Republican parties to other parties in democratic political system countries, our Democratic party would be considered centrist, while the current Republican party would not. It would be closer to the fascist parties. If you want to argue that the Republican party is not that extreme, only by comparing us to countries like China and Russia which do not adhere to democratic processes, well, you are kind of proving my point.   
I was definitely missing your point, that's why I asked.  I was hoping that was obvious.

By mentioning China and Russia, I wasn't trying to say that was the bar that we must strive to be better than.  I was attempting to point out if you are just taking one similarity, and I thought you were tying it to our dominant (Western) European ancestry, you can come up with either answer. 

I also bring up the super power thing because that sets us apart from all European countries.  I know the Dems want to reduce military spending, but I haven't heard any politicians arguing that we should no longer be a super power.  (I'm sure there are individuals that believe that though.)  I think this is the main reason we cannot/should not have the same social policies as they do.  Military is such a drain on our Federal budget.

Therefore, I don't think comparing us to European countries is very insightful.

It was simply in the response to that the perception of some, that the Democratic party is going more left, when in reality it is the Republican party which has changed the most in the last decade or so, in troubling ways. The Military spending is a separate issue. But I think voters can certainly ask if the levels appropriated to our military are appropriate, given that we spend 3x what the next superpower (China) spends, and more than 8 of the next highest military spending countries, combined. When you look at wasteful spending, military is fair game, especially in the current climate where CDC programs for example, are being cut 80%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

All government programs are under scrunity. Yet the DOD cannot account for literally trillions of dollars. This is a problem. One that should not be rewarded by throwing more money at them, which is what Trump proposes. 
https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/dod_financial_management/issue_summary
My opinion on the perception of the Democrats going more left is this.  The Democrats have this general list, A, B, C, D ... of things that they want accomplished.  They slowly complete them, and then move on to the next thing.  20 years ago, they might have been working on C and D, and didn't talk much about E and F.  Now that C and D are done, out come E and F, which to someone on the right, makes them look more left.  Also 100 years ago, we had hardly any social welfare.  Now we have "ALL THIS WELFARE" that we didn't have 100 years ago, so each time we get more and more left.

In the opposite side of things, Republicans 20 years ago, would have been trying to reverse A and B, and trying to stop C and D.  Now they are trying to reverse A, B, C, and D, and stopping E and F.  This also makes them look more right, even though they would have been against E and F before, it just wasn't talked about.  Although, some of them are slowly coming around on A and B.  Other than military spending, Republicans seem to be losing ground.

Trump is a different story, since he does not seem to agree with much of Republican policy.  What he says is definitely more extreme, although it isn't left and right extreme, it's up and down extreme.  He is much more authoritarian than most Dems/Repubs, at least based on what he says.  I could be wrong about the Republican policy part though, since he is a leader of the party, he could be shaping the policy.  We will see in 10 years what their policy is.

zoltani

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #831 on: February 06, 2018, 03:34:10 PM »
*snip stuff about Hillary Clinton*
in European countries her views would place her under the moderate conservative party.
I never understood why using Europe as a metric meant anything.  Why is mentioning this relevant?

None of those countries are considered super powers, which means their budgets are going to be extremely different.  If you compare to the other two super powers, she'd be extremely liberal.
Because they are developed countries with democratic processes, neither controlled by dictatorships or communists. Why, who do you think we should compare ourselves to?

What is the point of the comparison though?  I don't understand what this information is supposed to convey.

There must be an assumption that you are making that I am not.  That European countries are the goal or they are doing better than we are, or something like that.

In general (for much of Europe, at least), Europeans have longer life expectancies, have lower murder rates, have higher "happiness" ratings, lead generally healthier lives.

Sources:
https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/09/health/american-life-expectancy-shorter-than-europeans/index.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-vs-western-homicide-rates-2014-11
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/report-americans-less-healthy-die-younger-than-global-peers

That's all well and good, but have you actually lived in Europe? I think most americans that have a hard on for europe have never actually lived there. Visiting is one thing, living there is another.

There is a lot more economic freedom here than in europe. FIRE would be much more difficult in Europe than the US.

For years their emissions standards were applauded in the US, but if you actually go to a large city in europe you will choke on exhaust fumes. All of the european car manufacturers were cheating the system and their cars were polluting up to 40x the allowable limits. It took americans to figure this out and raise the red flag. A lot of the policies and practices that we applaud europe for are actually a nightmare when you live there.
“The hardest thing in the world is to simplify your life. It’s so easy to make it complex. What’s important is leading an examined life.”

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Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #832 on: February 06, 2018, 04:32:21 PM »
Registered Republican.  First time in my life that I did not vote Republican.  I do regret my decision as I voted third-party and we got stuck with Trump.

With the stuff in the news, i.e. GOP obstruction of Russian investigation, "fake news", "treasonous democrats", tax bill, stupid wall, Chinese creation of global warming, and assault riffle blinders, I think I'm going to vote Democrat going forward.

OCC, I'm not sure if you saw this link, which I posted above, so I'm reposting it for you. You might "enjoy" (odd word) reading it, as I think many reasonable Republicans would draw the same conclusion as you, and this is a good discussion as to one reason it's probably the best course of action going forward.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/boycott-the-gop/550907/
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 04:34:04 PM by Kris »
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #833 on: February 06, 2018, 04:34:55 PM »
Or he's a deep state operative trying to bring down the one good man in politics right now.   :D
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

OneCoolCat

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #834 on: February 06, 2018, 08:51:35 PM »
Registered Republican.  First time in my life that I did not vote Republican.  I do regret my decision as I voted third-party and we got stuck with Trump.

With the stuff in the news, i.e. GOP obstruction of Russian investigation, "fake news", "treasonous democrats", tax bill, stupid wall, Chinese creation of global warming, and assault riffle blinders, I think I'm going to vote Democrat going forward.

OCC, I'm not sure if you saw this link, which I posted above, so I'm reposting it for you. You might "enjoy" (odd word) reading it, as I think many reasonable Republicans would draw the same conclusion as you, and this is a good discussion as to one reason it's probably the best course of action going forward.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/boycott-the-gop/550907/

I'm not boycotting the Republican party, I'm leaving them.
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Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #835 on: February 06, 2018, 09:06:00 PM »
Registered Republican.  First time in my life that I did not vote Republican.  I do regret my decision as I voted third-party and we got stuck with Trump.

With the stuff in the news, i.e. GOP obstruction of Russian investigation, "fake news", "treasonous democrats", tax bill, stupid wall, Chinese creation of global warming, and assault riffle blinders, I think I'm going to vote Democrat going forward.

OCC, I'm not sure if you saw this link, which I posted above, so I'm reposting it for you. You might "enjoy" (odd word) reading it, as I think many reasonable Republicans would draw the same conclusion as you, and this is a good discussion as to one reason it's probably the best course of action going forward.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/boycott-the-gop/550907/

I'm not boycotting the Republican party, I'm leaving them.

Yes, and I think that is wise. I shared this because even these committed Republicans and Libertarians have decided that the party such as it is must be essentially destroyed in order for there to be any possibility of ever having a decent Republcan Party again.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

JLee

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #836 on: February 06, 2018, 09:13:50 PM »
Registered Republican.  First time in my life that I did not vote Republican.  I do regret my decision as I voted third-party and we got stuck with Trump.

With the stuff in the news, i.e. GOP obstruction of Russian investigation, "fake news", "treasonous democrats", tax bill, stupid wall, Chinese creation of global warming, and assault riffle blinders, I think I'm going to vote Democrat going forward.

OCC, I'm not sure if you saw this link, which I posted above, so I'm reposting it for you. You might "enjoy" (odd word) reading it, as I think many reasonable Republicans would draw the same conclusion as you, and this is a good discussion as to one reason it's probably the best course of action going forward.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/boycott-the-gop/550907/

I'm not boycotting the Republican party, I'm leaving them.

Add me to that list -- this election cycle got me to change my registered party, and I don't see it going back.

sol

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #837 on: February 06, 2018, 10:05:38 PM »
Several of my republican friends have told me they haven't left the party, it has left them.   

MasterStache

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #838 on: February 07, 2018, 06:16:24 AM »
Registered Republican.  First time in my life that I did not vote Republican.  I do regret my decision as I voted third-party and we got stuck with Trump.

With the stuff in the news, i.e. GOP obstruction of Russian investigation, "fake news", "treasonous democrats", tax bill, stupid wall, Chinese creation of global warming, and assault riffle blinders, I think I'm going to vote Democrat going forward.

OCC, I'm not sure if you saw this link, which I posted above, so I'm reposting it for you. You might "enjoy" (odd word) reading it, as I think many reasonable Republicans would draw the same conclusion as you, and this is a good discussion as to one reason it's probably the best course of action going forward.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/boycott-the-gop/550907/

I'm not boycotting the Republican party, I'm leaving them.

Add me to that list -- this election cycle got me to change my registered party, and I don't see it going back.

I jumped ship after Bush started an illegal war. I am an independent now though.

Scandium

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #839 on: February 07, 2018, 10:45:48 AM »
Wait - which party is the party of open-mindedness?
Pushed normally liberal people away.

From the last link:
Quote
Today's progressivism has become a faux-moral movement hurling charges of racism, bigotry, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and a slew of other meaningless buzzwords at anyone they disagree with.

The battle of ideas has been replaced by a battle of feelings, and outrage has replaced honesty. Diversity reigns supreme, as long as it’s not that pesky diversity of thought.

This isn’t the recipe for a free society, it’s a recipe for authoritarianism.

For these reasons, I can no longer call myself a progressive. I don’t really call myself a Democrat either. I’m a classical liberal, a free thinker, and as much as I don’t like to admit it, defending my liberal values has suddenly become a conservative position

-Dave Rubin

I personally was not attracted to the right in my vote for Trump, I was pushed from the left.

Wow, what a bunch of staw man BS. Impressive that a guy which his own show, and youtube channel don't know the meaning of free speech.

- speakers banned from campuses. Shouldn't students be free to have opinions about who they want to speak? Government never entered the equation, isn't that good? Later I he says customers should choose different bakers if they refuse gay customers. Well shouldn't the speakers, or students, then just choose another university? This is also a vastly overblown issue based on a few over-eager students (like most young people). Also rather strange to conflate the protesting of 20-something students with the official policy of the national Democratic party.

- trigger warnings. Ohno, the horror of informing people of things so they can make choices! Does he also oppose age ratings on movies to inform parent's? Or spoiler alerts? You find them silly (perhaps because you haven't been raped..?) well then just read the book and don't worry about it. What's the harm in telling someone else?

quote:
Quote
If you’re black, or female, or Muslim, or Hispanic, or a member of any other minority group, you’re judged differently than the most evil of all things: a white, Christian male. The Regressive Left ranks minority groups in a pecking order to compete in a kind of “Oppression Olympics”. Gold medal goes to the most offended.

Ahh, so we've come to this. The white, christian male victim complex! He may be gay, but he's still offended that more equality to minorities and women means less equality for him. Seems like this always comes down to a "zero-sum equality" issue. I also have a hard time finding the policy of any Democratic/progressive politician the part that state white men are evil, and that minorities should be granted greater rights. Where this belief comes from is never explained, it's just stated as fact.

- the "gay wedding cake". How can you be so ignorant of this basic concept? A business (i.e. limited liability etc) is a privilege granted by the government! In exchange you follow the rules! One of which being in this case don't discriminate! You can't mix individual rights and business rights.

zoltani

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #840 on: February 07, 2018, 12:04:13 PM »
Regarding the wedding cake do you think that an artist has the right to refuse work that they do not agree with? The wedding cake issue is exactly that. The baker did not refuse to sell them a product, he offered them a cake off the shelf, he refused to use their artistic expression to convey a message he does not agree with. Should artists be compelled to produce art that they do not agree with? Should a hindu artist be compelled to paint a painting depicting slain cows? Should a democrat artist be compelled to produce art depicting Trump as a great leader? Should a muslim newspaper be compelled to print cartoons of Muhammad?

Obviously these are the questions the supreme court will tackle. I support gay marriage, but this issues is more nuanced than media and people make it out to be.
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JLee

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #841 on: February 07, 2018, 12:31:08 PM »
Regarding the wedding cake do you think that an artist has the right to refuse work that they do not agree with? The wedding cake issue is exactly that. The baker did not refuse to sell them a product, he offered them a cake off the shelf, he refused to use their artistic expression to convey a message he does not agree with. Should artists be compelled to produce art that they do not agree with? Should a hindu artist be compelled to paint a painting depicting slain cows? Should a democrat artist be compelled to produce art depicting Trump as a great leader? Should a muslim newspaper be compelled to print cartoons of Muhammad?

Obviously these are the questions the supreme court will tackle. I support gay marriage, but this issues is more nuanced than media and people make it out to be.

They never got to the point in the discussion where the baker would have known whether it was or was not going to have "GOD BLESS GAY MARRIAGE" (or whatever you're dreaming of) on top of it.  For all they knew, it could have been a plain cake with nothing on it.  The conversation didn't make it that far and they were denied service simply because they were gay.

Quote
Link

Yet by all accounts, the happy couple did not ask Mr. Phillips for a cake bearing a message with which the baker might disagree — such as “God Bless This Gay Marriage,” as a group of First Amendment scholars hypothesized, or a rainbow flag. That could make for a harder case. Instead, the would-be customers stated only that they were seeking a wedding cake before Mr. Phillips said he could not serve them.

Quote
Link

Here’s what really happened. The couple went into the bakery. They were not there long before the baker realized they were a gay couple. At that point, the baker refused to serve them. The refusal was not because of what they wanted on their cake—they never even discussed the design—but only because they were gay. It was only later on, after the case had commenced, that the baker said he would sell them a bland, undecorated cake. (From a legal standpoint, even if that were factually true, we settled the whole separate is equal stupidity a few decades ago.)

Quote
Link

"The conversation was fairly short," Philips remembered. "I went over and greeted them. We sat down at the desk where I had my wedding books open."
The men told Phillips they wanted a cake to celebrate their planned wedding, which would be performed in another state. Phillips said he knew right away that he couldn't create the product they were looking for without violating his faith.

former player

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #842 on: February 07, 2018, 12:35:12 PM »
Regarding the wedding cake do you think that an artist has the right to refuse work that they do not agree with? The wedding cake issue is exactly that. The baker did not refuse to sell them a product, he offered them a cake off the shelf, he refused to use their artistic expression to convey a message he does not agree with. Should artists be compelled to produce art that they do not agree with? Should a hindu artist be compelled to paint a painting depicting slain cows? Should a democrat artist be compelled to produce art depicting Trump as a great leader? Should a muslim newspaper be compelled to print cartoons of Muhammad?

Obviously these are the questions the supreme court will tackle. I support gay marriage, but this issues is more nuanced than media and people make it out to be.
A baker is an artisan not an artist.
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bacchi

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #843 on: February 07, 2018, 12:38:20 PM »
The "artist" thing is pretty weak sauce, too. It's a business. Even artists that have storefronts, to sell their sculpture or paintings or whatever, have to sell to minorities and families and disabled people. If they want to discriminate, they can be an artist in their backyard studio.

(Edit:)

There is also some concern that allowing a business to deny someone a service because of the owner's personal beliefs would, in effect, pierce the corporate veil. No business wants that because it would expose the owner (and not just the business) to lawsuits.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 12:43:27 PM by bacchi »

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #844 on: February 07, 2018, 12:41:33 PM »
the baker refused to serve them because of who they were, not because of what product or design they wanted. Yeah I agree any artist can choose to accept or refuse artistic work they don't want to do. That's not the issue here.

GuitarStv

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #845 on: February 07, 2018, 12:50:58 PM »
the baker refused to serve them because of who they were, not because of what product or design they wanted. Yeah I agree any artist can choose to accept or refuse artistic work they don't want to do. That's not the issue here.

+1

There's a difference between refusing to provide a wedding cake that looks like two schlongs rubbing together, and refusing to do a regular wedding cake because the couple asking for it is gay.

JLee

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #846 on: February 07, 2018, 12:54:14 PM »
the baker refused to serve them because of who they were, not because of what product or design they wanted. Yeah I agree any artist can choose to accept or refuse artistic work they don't want to do. That's not the issue here.

On religious grounds...yet, his religion's book specifically tells him how to treat other people:

Quote
Matthew 5:44 ESV   
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Acts 10:34 ESV
So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality,

Matthew 7:12 ESV
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Romans 2:11 ESV
For God shows no partiality.

Mark 12:31 ESV
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

1 John 2:11 ESV
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

James 2:4 ESV
Have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

One could easily argue that the Bible itself says the baker is wrong.

If there's a scripture passage that tells people to discriminate against gay people, I'd love to see it.

TexasRunner

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #847 on: February 07, 2018, 01:18:29 PM »
the baker refused to serve them because of who they were, not because of what product or design they wanted. Yeah I agree any artist can choose to accept or refuse artistic work they don't want to do. That's not the issue here.

On religious grounds...yet, his religion's book specifically tells him how to treat other people:

Quote
Matthew 5:44 ESV   
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Acts 10:34 ESV
So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality,

Matthew 7:12 ESV
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Romans 2:11 ESV
For God shows no partiality.

Mark 12:31 ESV
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

1 John 2:11 ESV
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

James 2:4 ESV
Have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

One could easily argue that the Bible itself says the baker is wrong.

If there's a scripture passage that tells people to discriminate against gay people, I'd love to see it.

I'll add on to your post a bit...

Quote
1 Corinthians 9:9-12 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. But I wasn’t talking about [people who don't claim to be Christians] who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a [Christian] yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people.

It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.

If the interaction was truly 'I don't want to have anything to do with you', then yes, the man was clearly off biblical grounds (and it sounds like that may be the case).

I don't want to interject into the political discussion, but I do want to state that JLee commented verses (though cut down quite a bit) are "Biblically" on-topic for those who may be doubting.
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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #848 on: February 07, 2018, 01:51:38 PM »
Nope no regret,

-He has encouraged large corporations, that were leaving in droves, to repatriate money being held off shore and reinvest in new jobs within the united states. Companies investing in jobs in this country is overwhelmingly a good thing. I’m not sure how anyone could put a bad spin on this, but I wont hold my breath…. I’m sure its coming.

-He passed executive orders designed to eliminate burdensome regulation by requiring that for every new regulation created, two must be eliminated. I see this as a good thing, others will disagree.

-He has eliminated the ACA individual mandate. Again, I see this as a good thing. I dont approve of the government requiring the purchase of anything, and again I know many people disagree. But you probably wouldn’t like it if the GOP passed a law requiring everyone over that age of 18 to own a fire arm to combat crime now would you? I’m sure we could make a case that it would be best for you, we could dig up studies, show you how it is better for the poor and defenseless, should your neighbors suffer because you cant defend yourself? etc….. Forcing people to purchase things is not a good idea period. (some of this is tongue in check, no need to fly off the rails here)

-Trump getting elected has, wither you like him or not, exposed a huge encroachment on personal liberty in this country through the use of the FISA system. I’m not going to pass judgement on if he is or isn’t guilty, but the fact is the investigation process has exposed an opening for corruption to manipulate the FISA warrant system. We should all be discussing how to correct this to prevent future abuse of the system or possibly eliminating mass collection of intelligence on American soil all together.

-My favorite thing though, is he knows how to get under the skin of a liberal, and understands how to manipulate them. With every breath he takes, every move he makes, every word he speaks, the liberals and media are on the verge of losing their collective minds. You don’t get him, he continues to beat you at your own game, and it drives liberals nuts. Which in all honesty is probably exactly what he wants, it’s absolutely brilliant. He has the democrats all so busy chasing their own tail you’re missing the big picture.
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JLee

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #849 on: February 07, 2018, 01:57:34 PM »
"He makes liberals angry therefore I love him" seems to sum it up nicely.

A terrible sentiment for a system of government...

Regarding exposure of surveillance being to Trump's credit... Have you heard of Edward Snowden.....?