Author Topic: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?  (Read 81834 times)

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #350 on: December 24, 2017, 11:12:03 AM »
Merry Christmas to all the other Trumpkins on this forum.  Yes, we seem to be a slim minority but we know that our President will put America First.  He, and we, will never apologize for that.  God Bless our President and here's to another great year for our economy!  MAGA!

Because nobody else gives any shits about America.

*eyeroll*
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/digging-out-of-a-hole/

sol

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #351 on: December 24, 2017, 11:39:52 AM »
Merry Christmas to all the other Trumpkins on this forum.  Yes, we seem to be a slim minority but we know that our President will put America First.  He, and we, will never apologize for that.  God Bless our President and here's to another great year for our economy!  MAGA!

Do you feel he put America first when he repealed the fiduciary rule for financial advisors?  That one seems pretty straightforward to me, this was a rule that legally protected you from predatory advisors who would sell you high-fee products in order to line their own pockets, and Trump hates it.  He actively sought to overturn it, to make it legal for sharks to hunt you.  Congratulations, do you feel more free?

Similarly for repealing Dodd-Frank.  This was a law designed to put Americans first, to avoid another financial meltdown, and he killed it because, presumably, he wants another financial meltdown?  I just don't get why anyone supports this sort of thing.  You might as well say the 1st Amendment has to go because it's extraneous regulation burdening our economy.   No!  Some laws are good for America because they protect us!
sol will be totally offline for most of June 2018.  You cannot reach me.  You will not hear from me.  I am not dead, just away from civilization.

accolay

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #352 on: December 24, 2017, 12:33:47 PM »
Merry Christmas to all the other Trumpkins on this forum.  Yes, we seem to be a slim minority but we know that our President will put America First.  He, and we, will never apologize for that.  God Bless our President and here's to another great year for our economy!  MAGA!

Holy brainwash Batman!

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #353 on: December 24, 2017, 01:06:11 PM »
Merry Christmas to all the other Trumpkins on this forum.  Yes, we seem to be a slim minority but we know that our President will put America First.  He, and we, will never apologize for that.  God Bless our President and here's to another great year for our economy!  MAGA!

We used to make fun of North Korea for this stuff.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

PKFFW

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #354 on: December 24, 2017, 01:57:11 PM »
Merry Christmas to all the other Trumpkins on this forum.  Yes, we seem to be a slim minority but we know that our President will put America First.  He, and we, will never apologize for that.  God Bless our President and here's to another great year for our economy!  MAGA!
I don't read enough of the threads here to be familiar with CheapScholar but surely this is an epic troll?  Even a proud Trump supporter could not really be that in denial could they?

CheapScholar

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #355 on: December 24, 2017, 05:53:34 PM »
I'm no troll.  Just a Midwestern paleo-conservative who loves the old GOP of protectionism and American Exceptionalism.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #356 on: December 24, 2017, 05:59:33 PM »
I'm no troll.  Just a Midwestern paleo-conservative who loves the old GOP of protectionism and American Exceptionalism.

American exceptionalism dies with Trump. So, yeah. Congrats.

I always knew the twenty-first century would be the one where the US lost its position as the leader pf the world. I just didn’t think it would happen so quickly.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

GetSmart

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #357 on: December 24, 2017, 06:02:29 PM »
paleo-conservative who loves the old GOP of protectionism and American Exceptionalism.

What exactly does that mean to you ?  Did you not feel exceptional before nor protected ?

What's a paleo-conservative ??????

CheapScholar

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #358 on: December 24, 2017, 06:13:16 PM »
I'd define paleo-conservatism as having roots with the early GOP (Fremont and Lincoln) and until Eisenhower.  But I'd say the pinnacle was McKinley.  And when I said protectionism, I meant trade policy, so no I sure don't feel protected at all. 

PKFFW

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #359 on: December 24, 2017, 11:38:30 PM »
I'd define paleo-conservatism as having roots with the early GOP (Fremont and Lincoln) and until Eisenhower.  But I'd say the pinnacle was McKinley.  And when I said protectionism, I meant trade policy, so no I sure don't feel protected at all.
Wow.  I never thought even the most ardent, blinkered and dare I say it, deluded Trumpite would ever think to suggest Trump or his policies were even in the same ball game much less the same league as Lincoln.

I congratulate you on being capable of the mental gymnastics it must take to avoid the otherwise debilitating cognitive dissonance holding such a viewpoint must surely inflict.

craimund

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #360 on: December 25, 2017, 04:29:17 AM »
It's an honest question.  I'm really curious as to whether anyone voted republican and now regrets it because:  No regrets at all.

1.  Gutting of ACA and how it effects your FIRE plans...  Obamacare deserves to be gutted.  The fact that multimillionaires on this forum can receive government subsidies which are paid for by taxpayers (some of whom are struggling working families) goes to the heart of what's wrong with the so-called "ACA".  Welfare for the wealthy.  No one should be forced by the government to purchase private health insurance.  We still have liberty in this country.
2.  The republican tax plan  Support the GOP tax plan.  Not perfect (and probably won't lower my taxes in the near term) but corporate rates needed to come down.
3.  Trump/Russia  Fake news.  No evidence of "collusion".  Also, collusion is not a crime.  I believe Mueller was supposed to look into Russian meddling in 2016 election.  Russia always meddles in elections.  Soviets supported civil rights movement and anti-war movements in 60s and 70s.  They also invariably support the Mueller investigation because it sows dissension internally and weakens the U.S.
4.  Less consumer protection (deregulation)  Consumer is better protected by competition in the marketplace than government regulation.  Who protects us from the government?
5.  Korea  Previous administrations allowed NK to develop nuclear weapons. Trump inherited this mess
6.  General lack of decorum  Dems have always lacked decorum.  Trump is fighting back.
7.  Environmental issues/climate change issues  Need less regulation here as well.  The climate does change.  Gov't policy has little to no effect on this.  Even warmists acknowledge this.
8.  Racial/religious (Muslim) tensions  Getting blown up by radical islamists tends to create tension.  This is not Trump's fault. 
9.  Women's rights/issues  Are you referring to abortion?  Roe v Wade decision was a travesty.  There is no Const. "right" to an abortion.  Needs to be overturned and allow states to decide since there is no federal right.

I'm actually curious.  And I'm wondering if you will vote differently next time?  Will definitely vote Republican next time.

CheapScholar

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #361 on: December 25, 2017, 07:10:07 AM »
I'd define paleo-conservatism as having roots with the early GOP (Fremont and Lincoln) and until Eisenhower.  But I'd say the pinnacle was McKinley.  And when I said protectionism, I meant trade policy, so no I sure don't feel protected at all.
Wow.  I never thought even the most ardent, blinkered and dare I say it, deluded Trumpite would ever think to suggest Trump or his policies were even in the same ball game much less the same league as Lincoln.

I congratulate you on being capable of the mental gymnastics it must take to avoid the otherwise debilitating cognitive dissonance holding such a viewpoint must surely inflict.

Would be hard to argue that Lincoln and Trump do not have similar policies on international trade.  The GOP was pro-tariff back then and I'm happy we are getting back to our roots..  Trump is also similar to Lincoln on immigration.  Anyway, I didn't say that Trump and Lincoln were twins, I said that Paleo-conservatism (which Trump best fits) traces its roots back to the mid 19th century GOP.

sixup

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #362 on: December 25, 2017, 09:32:53 AM »
What exactly is the problem with increasing the deficit, for anyone who thinks it's a problem (Republican or Democrat)?

golden1

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #363 on: December 25, 2017, 02:33:38 PM »
Fascinating.  All cult45 members sound pretty much the same.  It is honestly scary how people will rationalize any behavior in order to fall in line with the tribe.  The same people who screamed about the deficit are now totally fine with jacking it up.  The same people who were behind the “law and order” president are screaming that the FBI is corrupt. 

Humans are truly awful creatures sometimes. 





bacchi

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #364 on: December 25, 2017, 04:43:13 PM »
I'd define paleo-conservatism as having roots with the early GOP (Fremont and Lincoln) and until Eisenhower.  But I'd say the pinnacle was McKinley.  And when I said protectionism, I meant trade policy, so no I sure don't feel protected at all.

I'd mention Smoot-Hawley but that'll probably be dismissed as "it was different then."

The modern example is of course Brexit. In just over a year, inflation has risen and England has fallen out of the top 5 world economies. The rest of the world has decent to high growth rate but England's has dropped to 1.5%. It's expected to drop further next year.

Protectionism simply doesn't work in a modern economy.

PKFFW

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #365 on: December 25, 2017, 07:48:10 PM »
Would be hard to argue that Lincoln and Trump do not have similar policies on international trade.  The GOP was pro-tariff back then and I'm happy we are getting back to our roots..  Trump is also similar to Lincoln on immigration.  Anyway, I didn't say that Trump and Lincoln were twins, I said that Paleo-conservatism (which Trump best fits) traces its roots back to the mid 19th century GOP.
Like I said, impressive mental gymnastics.

t185

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #366 on: December 26, 2017, 06:12:15 AM »
I'm no troll.  Just a Midwestern paleo-conservative who loves the old GOP of protectionism and American Exceptionalism.


I'm with you brother.Keep the faith!

CheapScholar

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #367 on: December 26, 2017, 10:08:05 AM »
I'd define paleo-conservatism as having roots with the early GOP (Fremont and Lincoln) and until Eisenhower.  But I'd say the pinnacle was McKinley.  And when I said protectionism, I meant trade policy, so no I sure don't feel protected at all.

I'd mention Smoot-Hawley but that'll probably be dismissed as "it was different then."

The modern example is of course Brexit. In just over a year, inflation has risen and England has fallen out of the top 5 world economies. The rest of the world has decent to high growth rate but England's has dropped to 1.5%. It's expected to drop further next year.

Protectionism simply doesn't work in a modern economy.

Don't forget about all the Bernie Sanders supporters in the primaries.  When you add up the Trump and Sanders supporters, I'd wager a MAJORITY of Americans voted for protectionist candidates.  Like Trump said, "Crazy Bernie was crazy, but he was right on trade."

Free trade doesn't work in a modern economy.  Heck, the fringe left of the Democratic Party was vehemently protectionist until Trump adopted the position.

bacchi

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #368 on: December 26, 2017, 02:30:39 PM »
I'd define paleo-conservatism as having roots with the early GOP (Fremont and Lincoln) and until Eisenhower.  But I'd say the pinnacle was McKinley.  And when I said protectionism, I meant trade policy, so no I sure don't feel protected at all.

I'd mention Smoot-Hawley but that'll probably be dismissed as "it was different then."

The modern example is of course Brexit. In just over a year, inflation has risen and England has fallen out of the top 5 world economies. The rest of the world has decent to high growth rate but England's has dropped to 1.5%. It's expected to drop further next year.

Protectionism simply doesn't work in a modern economy.

Don't forget about all the Bernie Sanders supporters in the primaries.  When you add up the Trump and Sanders supporters, I'd wager a MAJORITY of Americans voted for protectionist candidates.  Like Trump said, "Crazy Bernie was crazy, but he was right on trade."

Free trade doesn't work in a modern economy.  Heck, the fringe left of the Democratic Party was vehemently protectionist until Trump adopted the position.

?? So they were wrong too.

What's that got to do with Smoot and Brexit causing problems in the economy?

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #369 on: December 26, 2017, 03:31:01 PM »
For the Trump supporters:

The Trump administration is scaling back the use of fines against nursing homes that harm residents or placed them in grave risk of injury.

Source: http://nyti.ms/2BBIZnC

Can you tell me why this is good?
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

wenchsenior

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #370 on: December 26, 2017, 03:52:42 PM »
For the Trump supporters:

The Trump administration is scaling back the use of fines against nursing homes that harm residents or placed them in grave risk of injury.

Source: http://nyti.ms/2BBIZnC

Can you tell me why this is good?

Free market, man! The consumer can take their business elsewhere!  :sarcasm:

accolay

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #371 on: December 26, 2017, 05:20:27 PM »
Would be hard to argue that Lincoln and Trump do not have similar policies on international trade.  The GOP was pro-tariff back then and I'm happy we are getting back to our roots..  Trump is also similar to Lincoln on immigration.  Anyway, I didn't say that Trump and Lincoln were twins, I said that Paleo-conservatism (which Trump best fits) traces its roots back to the mid 19th century GOP.

Tariffs? Oh boy. Where do you think those increase trickle down?

You know that Mexico, our next door neighbor is already talking about exports to Canada and Europe? This is due to all of 45's big rhetoric. Our farmers are freaking out a bit.

CheapScholar

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #372 on: December 26, 2017, 07:03:07 PM »
Once we kill NAFTA we can enter agricultural trade agreements.  No sense in us growing avocados in greenhouses or Mexico trying to grow crappy apples.  But most things we use and consume can be made in our country.  Cars being the prime example.  The most dangerous people in society are those with nothing to lose.  And I've lived long enough in the rust belt to see this lost generation of men and women who cannot find work and thus have no dignity and put off home ownership and having children.  The U3 unemployment rate is also bullshit.  Look at the number of people on food stamps for crying out loud.  We are going to MAKE AMERICAN AND BUY AMERICAN. 

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #373 on: December 26, 2017, 07:15:37 PM »
For the Trump supporters:

The Trump administration is scaling back the use of fines against nursing homes that harm residents or placed them in grave risk of injury.

Source: http://nyti.ms/2BBIZnC

Can you tell me why this is good?

Free market, man! The consumer can take their business elsewhere!  :sarcasm:

Yeah.

In my experience, whenever I have asked a question like this, the answer tends to be radio silence.

Who knows, though... maybe this time will be different.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #374 on: December 26, 2017, 07:16:40 PM »
Once we kill NAFTA we can enter agricultural trade agreements.  No sense in us growing avocados in greenhouses or Mexico trying to grow crappy apples.  But most things we use and consume can be made in our country.  Cars being the prime example.  The most dangerous people in society are those with nothing to lose.  And I've lived long enough in the rust belt to see this lost generation of men and women who cannot find work and thus have no dignity and put off home ownership and having children.  The U3 unemployment rate is also bullshit.  Look at the number of people on food stamps for crying out loud.  We are going to MAKE AMERICAN AND BUY AMERICAN.

Good lord.

You actually believe this.
Please note: Libertarian4321 did not vote for either Hillary or Trump. He voted for Gary Johnson, who was the Libertarian candidate.

ncornilsen

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #375 on: December 27, 2017, 08:08:35 AM »


For the Trump supporters:

The Trump administration is scaling back the use of fines against nursing homes that harm residents or placed them in grave risk of injury.

Source: http://nyti.ms/2BBIZnC

Can you tell me why this is good?



Did you read the article?

David Gifford, the American Health Care Association’s senior vice president for quality, said daily fines were intended to prompt quick remedies but were pointless when applied to past errors that had already been fixed by the time inspectors discovered them.

“What was happening is you were seeing massive fines accumulating because they were applying them on a per-day basis retrospectively,” Mr. Gifford said.


As someone who deals with our state's Department of Environmental Quality, I can say definitely that regulation and moronic application and enforement there-of has forced me to install equipment that was more costly to run and less effective at what it was supposed to do, because it was the only way to meet the 'regulations' as they're (poorly) written. So, this one below rings true:

“Rather than spending quality time with their patients, the providers are spending time complying with regulations that get in the way of caring for their patients and doesn’t increase the quality of care they provide,” Dr. Goodrich said

I'll give you that reducing the fines levied in some of the egregious cases brought up seems imprudent. I could definitely quibble about the details of the changes.  But if you use too heavy a hammer for the small non-life-health-safety stuff, you just drive the cost of care up further without actually improving anything.

Jrr85

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #376 on: December 27, 2017, 10:58:52 AM »
Do you feel he put America first when he repealed the fiduciary rule for financial advisors?  That one seems pretty straightforward to me, this was a rule that legally protected you from predatory advisors who would sell you high-fee products in order to line their own pockets, and Trump hates it.  He actively sought to overturn it, to make it legal for sharks to hunt you.  Congratulations, do you feel more free?
  It's less straightforward than you make it.  One, the rule was issued by the DOL.  That's really a stretch of their jurisdiction.  That's more of a rule of law issue than a substantive critique of the rule, but it does matter.  It's a bad practice for government bureaucrats or appointees to get beyond their field because they feel "something" needs to be done and the  entity with the appropriate power and jurisdiction isn't "doing something".  Second, you're assuming that the people who were getting overly expensive advice will now get appropriately priced advice, or that they will learn on their own.  But what will really happen is that a lot of people who would have gotten overly expensive advice that would generally prevent them from doing something catastrophic (like leaving their savings in straight cash) will now end up without any advice. 

I'm personally in favor of the rule (although I do not think the DOL should issue it), but I get that it's not a slam dunk case and there will be real harm that accompanies the benefits. 

Similarly for repealing Dodd-Frank.  This was a law designed to put Americans first, to avoid another financial meltdown, and he killed it because, presumably, he wants another financial meltdown?  I just don't get why anyone supports this sort of thing.  You might as well say the 1st Amendment has to go because it's extraneous regulation burdening our economy.   No!  Some laws are good for America because they protect us!
  Dodd-Frank was not designed to avoid another financial meltdown.  Dodd Frank was designed to allow politicians to "do something" and to also create opportunities for graft.  Some things Dodd Frank does are good and worth the costs, some things Dodd Frank does are good but not worth the costs, and some things are just bad.  There has been some relief granted, but Dodd Frank did encourage consolidation in the banking industry because it raised the regulatory burden on small and mid sized financial institutions.  I would say that's bad.  I'm not an expert enough to know where it falls out.  People who are experts that I trust think it is overall a net negative by a significant margin.  But they do come from a few different particular backgrounds and experiences and have their own biases. 

ncornilsen

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #377 on: December 27, 2017, 12:36:57 PM »
Do you feel he put America first when he repealed the fiduciary rule for financial advisors?  That one seems pretty straightforward to me, this was a rule that legally protected you from predatory advisors who would sell you high-fee products in order to line their own pockets, and Trump hates it.  He actively sought to overturn it, to make it legal for sharks to hunt you.  Congratulations, do you feel more free?
  It's less straightforward than you make it.  One, the rule was issued by the DOL.  That's really a stretch of their jurisdiction.  That's more of a rule of law issue than a substantive critique of the rule, but it does matter.  It's a bad practice for government bureaucrats or appointees to get beyond their field because they feel "something" needs to be done and the  entity with the appropriate power and jurisdiction isn't "doing something".  Second, you're assuming that the people who were getting overly expensive advice will now get appropriately priced advice, or that they will learn on their own.  But what will really happen is that a lot of people who would have gotten overly expensive advice that would generally prevent them from doing something catastrophic (like leaving their savings in straight cash) will now end up without any advice. 

I'm personally in favor of the rule (although I do not think the DOL should issue it), but I get that it's not a slam dunk case and there will be real harm that accompanies the benefits. 

Similarly for repealing Dodd-Frank.  This was a law designed to put Americans first, to avoid another financial meltdown, and he killed it because, presumably, he wants another financial meltdown?  I just don't get why anyone supports this sort of thing.  You might as well say the 1st Amendment has to go because it's extraneous regulation burdening our economy.   No!  Some laws are good for America because they protect us!
  Dodd-Frank was not designed to avoid another financial meltdown.  Dodd Frank was designed to allow politicians to "do something" and to also create opportunities for graft.  Some things Dodd Frank does are good and worth the costs, some things Dodd Frank does are good but not worth the costs, and some things are just bad.  There has been some relief granted, but Dodd Frank did encourage consolidation in the banking industry because it raised the regulatory burden on small and mid sized financial institutions.  I would say that's bad.  I'm not an expert enough to know where it falls out.  People who are experts that I trust think it is overall a net negative by a significant margin.  But they do come from a few different particular backgrounds and experiences and have their own biases.

I know of a few small, 2-3 location banks in the Midwest that are about to fold up shop because of the reg burden of Dodd-frank. It consolidates banks into yet more 'to big to fail' behemoths.

That said, who am I supposed to beleive? The bankers know what regulations screw them unnecessarily, but we all think (with very good reason) that anything they ask for releif on is another scheme to screw us.

retiringearly

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #378 on: December 27, 2017, 01:47:25 PM »
I have never regretted voting Republican.

I voted for Donald J. Trump in the primary, and I voted for Donald J. Trump in the Presidential election.

I am grateful that he is my President.

MAGA.

talltexan

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #379 on: December 28, 2017, 07:20:32 AM »
Conservatives believe that their policies are different/better and therefore worth increasing the deficit.
Liberals believe that their policies are different/better and therefore worth increasing the deficit.

Most of the liberals I know would love to decrease the deficit (in boom times). A lot of the spending decrease just has to come from one of the elephants in the room, which is taboo to most Republicans.

Exactly.

You can change the name of the parties around and have it be just as accurate.

We are in an expanding economy and Republicans, and only Republicans, just passed a tax cut that will add $1.5 trillion to the deficit.

So, no you can't.
Minor point: that's 1.5 trillion over ten years. $150bn was added to the yearly deficit.

I thought we were talking about your average, day to day liberal/republican?
Either way, Obama ran very similar deficits to Bush when you ignore the TARP/financial crisis stuff, and didn't do anything to reduce the deficits. Democrats didn't pass any spending cuts.

Republicans increase the deficit by taking less from the people.
Democrats increase the deficit by taking more from the people, and SPENDING even more yet.

Sequester was still on the books as Obama went out the door. GOP House demanded (and got) spending cuts from a Democratic President, exactly like they always do.

bacchi

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #380 on: December 28, 2017, 10:09:06 AM »
Sequester was still on the books as Obama went out the door. GOP House demanded (and got) spending cuts from a Democratic President, exactly like they always do.

Federal expenditures were $3.51T in 2014 and $3.85T in 2016. The 2017 requested budget was $4.15T. The deficit was $485B in 2014, $587B in 2016, and $503B (requested) for 2017.

Where are these budget cuts and why aren't they reflected in the expenditures or deficit?


ncornilsen

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #381 on: December 28, 2017, 10:23:01 AM »
Sequester was still on the books as Obama went out the door. GOP House demanded (and got) spending cuts from a Democratic President, exactly like they always do.

Federal expenditures were $3.51T in 2014 and $3.85T in 2016. The 2017 requested budget was $4.15T. The deficit was $485B in 2014, $587B in 2016, and $503B (requested) for 2017.

Where are these budget cuts and why aren't they reflected in the expenditures or deficit?

A common tactic is to call a reduction in the rate of increase of a particular budget item a "budget cut." This is commonly used by Democrats to accuse republicans of cutting the budget for poor or sick people... it's also used by republicans to say how much they cut a budget without actually doing so. How big the cut is depends on the assumed baseline %increase that budget item is assumed to get... and that baseline can be based on the % increase it got lastyear, or whatever arbitrary percentage is needed to support a particular narrative.

sol

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #382 on: December 28, 2017, 11:18:12 AM »
Sequester was still on the books as Obama went out the door. GOP House demanded (and got) spending cuts from a Democratic President, exactly like they always do.

Federal expenditures were $3.51T in 2014 and $3.85T in 2016. The 2017 requested budget was $4.15T. The deficit was $485B in 2014, $587B in 2016, and $503B (requested) for 2017.

Where are these budget cuts and why aren't they reflected in the expenditures or deficit?

A common tactic is to call a reduction in the rate of increase of a particular budget item a "budget cut." This is commonly used by Democrats to accuse republicans of cutting the budget for poor or sick people... it's also used by republicans to say how much they cut a budget without actually doing so. How big the cut is depends on the assumed baseline %increase that budget item is assumed to get... and that baseline can be based on the % increase it got lastyear, or whatever arbitrary percentage is needed to support a particular narrative.

This same tactic was used to explain why three consecutive years of 0% raises for government employees were not actually a pay cut, despite inflation of 8% over the same period.  Thanks Obama!

Somehow they found it in their hearts to give the military inflation-based raises, because we have to support our troops, but not civilian employees.   
sol will be totally offline for most of June 2018.  You cannot reach me.  You will not hear from me.  I am not dead, just away from civilization.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #383 on: December 28, 2017, 12:52:57 PM »
Trickle down! GE is laying off 12,000 workers in 2018. AT&T announce they are laying off 1,400. 555 layoffs at Carrier. More layoffs in steel and mining. Merry Christmas from Trumpland!
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jinga nation

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #384 on: December 29, 2017, 11:48:47 AM »
GE is laying off 12,000 workers in 2018. T&T announce they are laying off 1,400.
This has nothing to do with Trump (or Obama). Stop with the rhetoric.
If you've worked in multinationals and conglomerates, certain divisions fall behind. GE's Power division isn't contributing as much to the bottom line as their aviation and healthcare business. GE wants out of the lightbulb business. They want to focus on their strengths. And they're moving from manufacturing into IoT and smart devices world. They're hiring engineers with the new skills.
AT&T has over 200,000 US employees. 1,400 is less than 1%. End of year you get rid of bad performers. Or there's business reorganization according to the company's long-term strategic plan.
Every single company does this. It's called change. Adapt or die. We live in a capitalistic society. Deal with it.
I expected forum members here to do some due diligence using this thing called computerz on the interwebz with the Google. Or ask Google or Siri on smartphone.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 11:53:00 AM by jinga nation »
Signature worthless. I'm worth more dead than alive. Wife and kids will collect. Or Uncle Sam will, you can rely on Him.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #385 on: December 29, 2017, 12:47:45 PM »
GE is laying off 12,000 workers in 2018. T&T announce they are laying off 1,400.
This has nothing to do with Trump (or Obama). Stop with the rhetoric.
If you've worked in multinationals and conglomerates, certain divisions fall behind. GE's Power division isn't contributing as much to the bottom line as their aviation and healthcare business. GE wants out of the lightbulb business. They want to focus on their strengths. And they're moving from manufacturing into IoT and smart devices world. They're hiring engineers with the new skills.
AT&T has over 200,000 US employees. 1,400 is less than 1%. End of year you get rid of bad performers. Or there's business reorganization according to the company's long-term strategic plan.
Every single company does this. It's called change. Adapt or die. We live in a capitalistic society. Deal with it.
I expected forum members here to do some due diligence using this thing called computerz on the interwebz with the Google. Or ask Google or Siri on smartphone.

You must have missed the /s of my post.  Trump and Trumpies went crazy over the Christmas bonuses announced last week.  They've said the tax bill will create "many, many jobs" and here we have a bunch of reports of companies slashing jobs.
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A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #386 on: December 29, 2017, 12:50:30 PM »
I'd define paleo-conservatism as having roots with the early GOP (Fremont and Lincoln) and until Eisenhower.  But I'd say the pinnacle was McKinley.  And when I said protectionism, I meant trade policy, so no I sure don't feel protected at all.

I'd mention Smoot-Hawley but that'll probably be dismissed as "it was different then."

The modern example is of course Brexit. In just over a year, inflation has risen and England has fallen out of the top 5 world economies. The rest of the world has decent to high growth rate but England's has dropped to 1.5%. It's expected to drop further next year.

Protectionism simply doesn't work in a modern economy.

Don't forget about all the Bernie Sanders supporters in the primaries.  When you add up the Trump and Sanders supporters, I'd wager a MAJORITY of Americans voted for protectionist candidates.  Like Trump said, "Crazy Bernie was crazy, but he was right on trade."

Free trade doesn't work in a modern economy.  Heck, the fringe left of the Democratic Party was vehemently protectionist until Trump adopted the position.

Sanders-istas aren't really voting for protectionism, they're just voting against rich people and corporations.

jinga nation

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #387 on: December 29, 2017, 02:38:31 PM »
GE is laying off 12,000 workers in 2018. T&T announce they are laying off 1,400.
This has nothing to do with Trump (or Obama). Stop with the rhetoric.
If you've worked in multinationals and conglomerates, certain divisions fall behind. GE's Power division isn't contributing as much to the bottom line as their aviation and healthcare business. GE wants out of the lightbulb business. They want to focus on their strengths. And they're moving from manufacturing into IoT and smart devices world. They're hiring engineers with the new skills.
AT&T has over 200,000 US employees. 1,400 is less than 1%. End of year you get rid of bad performers. Or there's business reorganization according to the company's long-term strategic plan.
Every single company does this. It's called change. Adapt or die. We live in a capitalistic society. Deal with it.
I expected forum members here to do some due diligence using this thing called computerz on the interwebz with the Google. Or ask Google or Siri on smartphone.

You must have missed the /s of my post.  Trump and Trumpies went crazy over the Christmas bonuses announced last week.  They've said the tax bill will create "many, many jobs" and here we have a bunch of reports of companies slashing jobs.
You didn't have the /s. If you meant it, you should have added it at the end. Can't read your mind over the internet, bud!
I agree that GOP and Trump supporters going crazy, however there were similar things under Obama that his supporters thought would grow jobs enormously.
You can't trust a politician's predictions, they switch based on the lobbyist buying dinner that night.
Both parties have divided and conquered the American public.
Companies will do whatever it is to increase profits, that comes from being a publicly listed company beholden to bond and stockholders whose interests lie first.
The bonus game is deflection to either get attention or mask other intentions.
The fact is the current job market requires continuous education and learning to keep the job, as it keeps on changing. Those who are in legacy jobs or refuse to adapt will be casualties.
And we have too many "reporters" who write stories without in-depth analysis. This short-stories/ twitter/ buzzfeed journalism doesn't help anyone.
Signature worthless. I'm worth more dead than alive. Wife and kids will collect. Or Uncle Sam will, you can rely on Him.

retiringearly

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #388 on: December 29, 2017, 04:44:35 PM »
Trickle down! GE is laying off 12,000 workers in 2018. AT&T announce they are laying off 1,400. 555 layoffs at Carrier. More layoffs in steel and mining. Merry Christmas from Trumpland!
Unemployment is lower today than it has been at any point since December 2000.
Don't let facts get in the way of your blind, ignorant hatred.

MAGA.

NaturallyHappier

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #389 on: December 29, 2017, 06:52:03 PM »
Unemployment dropped from 10% to 4.7% (5.3%) during the Obama years.  It is 4.1% now, a drop of 0.6% in Trumps first year. It is still is 0.2% higher than it was at it's lowest point around 2000 (3.9%). 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 07:02:37 PM by NaturallyHappier »

facepalm

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #390 on: December 29, 2017, 07:45:14 PM »

Free trade doesn't work in a modern economy. 

Huh?

retiringearly

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #391 on: December 29, 2017, 07:45:53 PM »
Unemployment dropped from 10% to 4.7% (5.3%) during the Obama years.  It is 4.1% now, a drop of 0.6% in Trumps first year. It is still is 0.2% higher than it was at it's lowest point around 2000 (3.9%).
So you agree that unemployment under President Donald J. Trump is lower than any point since December 2000? Great!

President Donald J. Trump has taken 1) unemployment to lows not seen in 17 full years and 2) the US stock market to highs never seen at any time in history.

I hope facts don't trigger you.

MAGA.

scottish

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #392 on: December 29, 2017, 08:06:05 PM »
I bet a bunch of people will explain how Trump didn't actually cause those things to happen.

You guys should see some of the new labour regulations the Ontario government is bringing in.   In many ways they are diametrically opposed to Trump.
I suspect that the overall effect will be to reduce employment by encouraging employers to automate.

I'm not a Trump fan, but he is getting government out of the way of business.
Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.

retiringearly

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #393 on: December 29, 2017, 08:18:46 PM »
The single greatest reason that I am grateful that I voted for PRESIDENT Donald. J. Trump is ........Neil Gorsuch.

He will be helping to guide the United States of America for decades.

Instead of Merrick Garland.

bacchi

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #394 on: December 29, 2017, 09:45:25 PM »
Unemployment dropped from 10% to 4.7% (5.3%) during the Obama years.  It is 4.1% now, a drop of 0.6% in Trumps first year. It is still is 0.2% higher than it was at it's lowest point around 2000 (3.9%).
So you agree that unemployment under President Donald J. Trump is lower than any point since December 2000? Great!

President Donald J. Trump has taken 1) unemployment to lows not seen in 17 full years and 2) the US stock market to highs never seen at any time in history.

I hope facts don't trigger you.

MAGA.

2) Happens for a lot of Presidents because the market generally goes up. Obama also had the highest market at any time in history. It looks like Bush had a historic high, too, and so did Clinton and H.W. and Reagan.


marty998

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #395 on: December 29, 2017, 10:20:52 PM »
Unemployment dropped from 10% to 4.7% (5.3%) during the Obama years.  It is 4.1% now, a drop of 0.6% in Trumps first year. It is still is 0.2% higher than it was at it's lowest point around 2000 (3.9%).
So you agree that unemployment under President Donald J. Trump is lower than any point since December 2000? Great!

President Donald J. Trump has taken 1) unemployment to lows not seen in 17 full years and 2) the US stock market to highs never seen at any time in history.

I hope facts don't trigger you.

MAGA.

I want one of those hats. I met 3 American tourists on my recent holiday to Central Australia and none of them had a MAGA hat.

Totes disappointed.

Seriously though... you are like Bush yelling "mission accomplished" and guess what... you guys are still in Iraq.

Long ways to go yet.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #396 on: December 29, 2017, 11:09:48 PM »
Folks in Kentucky and West Virginia will probably eventually end up regretting their votes, when they realize that they voted to do away with their own health insurance subsidies. I don't think that's really sunk in yet with them, but maybe it will dawn on them once premiums skyrocket 20% from the individual mandate being outlawed. So far, nearly all the economic benefits of Trump seizing power have gone to Hillary Clinton's supporters, which is the very epitome of irony.

NoStacheOhio

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The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

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former player

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #398 on: December 30, 2017, 05:55:20 AM »
The single greatest reason that I am grateful that I voted for PRESIDENT Donald. J. Trump is ........Neil Gorsuch.

He will be helping to guide the United States of America for decades.

Instead of Merrick Garland.
Shouldn't that be a vote of thanks to Mitch McConnell for subverting the confirmation process in a way that handed Trump the opportunity to make an appointment that he would not otherwise have had?  All Trump did was take advantage of an opportunity handed to him on a plate and then not eff it up.

Granted, it's something Trump did manage not to eff up (if you believe in so-called "conservative" values), which is in itself surprising.
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craiglepaige

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #399 on: December 30, 2017, 06:05:06 AM »
Once we kill NAFTA we can enter agricultural trade agreements.  No sense in us growing avocados in greenhouses or Mexico trying to grow crappy apples.  But most things we use and consume can be made in our country.  Cars being the prime example.  The most dangerous people in society are those with nothing to lose.  And I've lived long enough in the rust belt to see this lost generation of men and women who cannot find work and thus have no dignity and put off home ownership and having children.  The U3 unemployment rate is also bullshit.  Look at the number of people on food stamps for crying out loud.  We are going to MAKE AMERICAN AND BUY AMERICAN.


I've been in the rust belt since '94 and have witnessed many auto plants close and move across the border.  It sucks. The landscape changed drastically from middle class to lower income.

But to think that Trump is going to bring those jobs back is ludicrous. The automakers (let's say the Big 3) have no reason to bring those jobs back to then pay a higher wage for the same work they get at 10cents on the dollar in Mexico.

I'm all for locals supporting locals, but this idea that manufacturing is going to come back because of Trump is rather foolish. I hope it does, but I'm not holding my breath for it.
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