Author Topic: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?  (Read 107599 times)

talltexan

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1100 on: August 27, 2018, 08:22:46 AM »
(reminder: I am an economist and sympathetic to the idea that regulations weigh down businesses, particularly small ones)

The fact that you offer up barriers to entry in hair and dairy/egg production is kinda...random. Are you in one of these industries? Do you work for a group who lobbies for them? Do you have evidence that these particular regulations are much more onerous than--say--those that fall on coal power plants? Because my annual spend on eggs is probably in the neighborhood of about $100 for a family of four. My annual spend on hair (just for myself) styling is a very un-mustachian $150. Seeing these amounts cut in half by removing the regulations you cite will not rocket my family ahead financially.

And there's a converse of the regulation argument--one that really matters--which is that there are real problems being caused, sometimes to workers, sometimes to customers, and some times to third parties who do not benefit from unregulated transactions.

And while I appreciate the benefits businesses receive from the rollback to these regulations, I'm aware that some times the people who suffer from these rollbacks might not have the resources the businesses do to fight them in court of law or court of public opinion.

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1101 on: August 27, 2018, 09:13:11 AM »
As far as getting back to original question, does anyone regret voting Republican, the guy I've been seeing (who I didn't realize was Republican because when I asked before dating whether he had voted for Trump said no (only because he didn't vote)). I said, what do you think of Trump now? And he said, well I think maybe he's made some mistakes, but I think he's smart, he's a smart businessman, he wouldn't be where he is now if he didn't know what he was doing, so I think he going to make good decisions. But when I mentioned what did he think about the fact he is now implicated in federal crimes, he got defensive and said, look I'm not political. And we had previously agreed not to talk about politics, so we changed the subject. Basically he seems totally comfortable having Trump as president, thinks he doing a good job, making good decisions (when I asked him for an example said he's going to "fix" the ACA, because it's too expensive).   

One thing that I think is relevant to his thought process, is the same weekend we were talking about something unrelated (business stuff) and he explained that rules and regulations, are not absolute; t's really more about knowing the right person, and one person might tell you no, but if they know you know someone influential it will happen. Basically, only the dumb people follow the rules. Maybe he identifies with Trump?

Bottom line, I see someone who made up their mind about him (positively) on very little information (aka reputation as a successful businessman). Despite more and more "data" to look at, is not willing to examine that data or revisit their original opinion. Kind of like I made money on black, no matter how many times red comes up I'm going to keep it on black no matter what.

Wexler

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1102 on: August 27, 2018, 12:24:18 PM »
As far as getting back to original question, does anyone regret voting Republican, the guy I've been seeing (who I didn't realize was Republican because when I asked before dating whether he had voted for Trump said no (only because he didn't vote)). I said, what do you think of Trump now? And he said, well I think maybe he's made some mistakes, but I think he's smart, he's a smart businessman, he wouldn't be where he is now if he didn't know what he was doing, so I think he going to make good decisions. But when I mentioned what did he think about the fact he is now implicated in federal crimes, he got defensive and said, look I'm not political. And we had previously agreed not to talk about politics, so we changed the subject. Basically he seems totally comfortable having Trump as president, thinks he doing a good job, making good decisions (when I asked him for an example said he's going to "fix" the ACA, because it's too expensive).   

One thing that I think is relevant to his thought process, is the same weekend we were talking about something unrelated (business stuff) and he explained that rules and regulations, are not absolute; t's really more about knowing the right person, and one person might tell you no, but if they know you know someone influential it will happen. Basically, only the dumb people follow the rules. Maybe he identifies with Trump?

Bottom line, I see someone who made up their mind about him (positively) on very little information (aka reputation as a successful businessman). Despite more and more "data" to look at, is not willing to examine that data or revisit their original opinion. Kind of like I made money on black, no matter how many times red comes up I'm going to keep it on black no matter what.

I'm going to go ahead and ask what everyone else wants to ask: are you going to keep seeing him?   It's a subquestion to this thread (does anyone regret cutting off/not cutting off the Trump lovers in their lives).

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1103 on: August 27, 2018, 01:14:31 PM »
The short answer is I'm not going to break up with him due to his Trump views (if I did break up it would be for other reasons!). I consider him a friend (and a lover). I don't see him as a boyfriend and a partner, we are just too different. There is part of the Venn diagram we overlap in enjoying each other's company and helping each other. Right now it's a net plus in my life so I'm not going to hyper analyze it. At the point either of us wanted to see other people we agree we would just be friends. 

One thing is true, is that his views on Trump have made me question his judgement in general. I've seen other instances where he will have made up his mind in some way, and is not flexible or adaptable about looking at it from a different way.   
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 01:17:02 PM by partgypsy »

Gin1984

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1104 on: August 27, 2018, 07:03:52 PM »
The worst action taken by President Trump is increasing tariffs but even this action appears to have led China, Mexico, and EU back to the negotiating table.  Will wait on the long-term effects.

I'm certainly hoping those tariff / trade negotiations get worked out with no long term damage or permanent passing on of costs to consumers (aka hidden tax).  The other bad thing, which could have been worse, is his attempts to dismantle the ACA, which narrowly escaped a big blow.  Thank you, John McCain (RIP).

One thing I support Trump on is border security and anti illegal immigration.  All other recent presidents have been weak on the issue.  A male illegal alien just killed a young female college student in Iowa and dumped her in a corn field.  The fact that he is an illegal alien is being downplayed in the mainstream news media.  It's very sad and shouldn't have happened.

That last sentence is very confusing to me.  Is anybody arguing the murder is A-OK because he wasn't here legally?  Killing people is bad whether someone is here legally or not and I'll be a monkey's uncle if someone is trying to protect him from his actions because he isn't an American citizen.

As for as the media: While I haven't seen any of that news footage myself, I would guess the media is simply not mentioning something that isn't worth mentioning rather than playing it down.  So let's flip it around.  Why should it be played up?  I don't see how whether or not he was here legally has anything to do with it.   Are illegal aliens more likely to commit murder?  Even if they were, their numbers are small enough that you're still more likely to be harmed by someone born here.
Every article about the murder has mentioned his immigrant status here in Iowa.  To the point where the family of the victim came out and said to stop using her death for political gains. 
And, the facts actually show immigrants are less likely to commit crimes. 
This was NOT about a immigrant, it was about male entitlement.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 09:02:23 PM by Gin1984 »

talltexan

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1105 on: August 28, 2018, 08:47:59 AM »
The short answer is I'm not going to break up with him due to his Trump views (if I did break up it would be for other reasons!). I consider him a friend (and a lover). I don't see him as a boyfriend and a partner, we are just too different. There is part of the Venn diagram we overlap in enjoying each other's company and helping each other. Right now it's a net plus in my life so I'm not going to hyper analyze it. At the point either of us wanted to see other people we agree we would just be friends. 

One thing is true, is that his views on Trump have made me question his judgement in general. I've seen other instances where he will have made up his mind in some way, and is not flexible or adaptable about looking at it from a different way.

I know plenty of people who are ethical people, yet voted for Trump.

I know plenty of people who are ethical people, yet they voted for Sec. Clinton.

Keeping ethical people in your life matters. You can explore someone's attitudes towards the law, further. Cynicism about the laws of this country may well be what causes that person to excuse Trump, but you will have to decide whether the person is ethical in his private dealings, too, performing work and service to others in his personal life where Trump isn't relevant.

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1106 on: August 28, 2018, 11:22:15 AM »
Talltexan, he's a interesting mix. He does have a businessman view of anything that helps business along is good, and rules are just suggestions. His personal politics are very much, everyone should be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps otherwise they are lazy, which yes is overly simplistic and judgemental. However in his actions he is more gentle. He's fixing up a rental house, so that it can be used for housing for women fleeing domestic abuse, even though he will make less money. He has donated time and energy helping me with my house, and to everyone he is the type of guy if cantelopes are on sale, will buy extras to give out to people. He works his workers hard, but at the same time will say let them live for free of charge in one of his houses, and drive them places if they need transportation. While he is more into cars than I would like, when he is doing house projects he is really good and handy at reusing materials and using what you have versus throwing things away or buying new. In that way he is more environmental than I am. One way we do diverge, is he is more religious. I know his preference is for me to learn more about his religion. But I am comfortable where I am at spiritually and have no desire to convert or participate actively in his religion, or really any religion other than the minimal I do now for what I was raised in.   

wenchsenior

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1107 on: November 05, 2018, 01:07:03 PM »
I'm resurrecting this thread b/c of a phone convo this morning with my die-hard conservative father.  It had been a few months since I talked to him, and BOY is he frothing to get to the polls.  He has historically only voted occasionally for Democrats, usually centrist presidential candidates (e.g., he voted for Al Gore), but generally he votes GOP.  He voted for Trump and all the GOP candidates in 2016, as per usual.  His governor is a high-profile conservative for whom Dad previously voted twice.

But he is FROTHING to get to polls tomorrow, and told me he is going to vote-straight ticket Dem for the first time in his life, and plans to do so for every future state or national election until the GOP stops supporting Trump, and starts shifting their platform back to old school (ie somewhat sane) 80s style conservatism.

And he's in a swing state.

sherr

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1108 on: November 05, 2018, 02:53:49 PM »
I'm resurrecting this thread b/c of a phone convo this morning with my die-hard conservative father.  It had been a few months since I talked to him, and BOY is he frothing to get to the polls.  He has historically only voted occasionally for Democrats, usually centrist presidential candidates (e.g., he voted for Al Gore), but generally he votes GOP.  He voted for Trump and all the GOP candidates in 2016, as per usual.  His governor is a high-profile conservative for whom Dad previously voted twice.

But he is FROTHING to get to polls tomorrow, and told me he is going to vote-straight ticket Dem for the first time in his life, and plans to do so for every future state or national election until the GOP stops supporting Trump, and starts shifting their platform back to old school (ie somewhat sane) 80s style conservatism.

And he's in a swing state.

As much as I would personally like to believe there are a lot more people like your dad, the polls don't bear that out. Trump consistently has a 89ish% approval rating within the Republican party. They love him and think that he's doing a great job.

People like your dad are the exception, not the rule, and he'd probably be called a "RINO" today.

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1109 on: November 05, 2018, 02:59:35 PM »
My Dad, and my uncle are both voting Democrat this time around. But in general they do vote Democrat, but they did both vote for Reagan first term, and Bush Jr first term.
OTOH my Dad's cousin who used to be quite moderate, even intellectual, has gone full right wing, particularly talking about immigrants and Muslims ruining this country with an angry fevour that he never had before.  My father can no longer talk to him due to his extreme intolerance to anyone who disagrees. It is -odd. Especially considering that they are both (him and his cousin) first generation immigrants.

wenchsenior

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1110 on: November 05, 2018, 03:13:24 PM »
I'm resurrecting this thread b/c of a phone convo this morning with my die-hard conservative father.  It had been a few months since I talked to him, and BOY is he frothing to get to the polls.  He has historically only voted occasionally for Democrats, usually centrist presidential candidates (e.g., he voted for Al Gore), but generally he votes GOP.  He voted for Trump and all the GOP candidates in 2016, as per usual.  His governor is a high-profile conservative for whom Dad previously voted twice.

But he is FROTHING to get to polls tomorrow, and told me he is going to vote-straight ticket Dem for the first time in his life, and plans to do so for every future state or national election until the GOP stops supporting Trump, and starts shifting their platform back to old school (ie somewhat sane) 80s style conservatism.

And he's in a swing state.

As much as I would personally like to believe there are a lot more people like your dad, the polls don't bear that out. Trump consistently has a 89ish% approval rating within the Republican party. They love him and think that he's doing a great job.

People like your dad are the exception, not the rule, and he'd probably be called a "RINO" today.

I agree polls show high Republican support for Trump. However, my father is not a member of the Republican party and has always identified as an independent.  He'd be insulted if someone called him a Republican.  What I'm hoping is that he isn't a huge exception among independent voters.  I'm dying to see that governor booted from office in my home state, so hopefully more of the independents are aligning with my father, at least in this election.

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1111 on: November 06, 2018, 02:19:50 PM »
One thing that is interesting, is the guy I've been seeing on and off, volunteered how he voted this election (early voted) and that he voted against all six amendments. He said he talked to friends and family how the laws would affect them, in how he decided to vote. The amendments put forth by the Republican-controlled Legislature on a slew of things, including stripping the (Democratic) governor of more powers, and restrictive voter ID laws.

https://www.wral.com/here-s-a-look-at-north-carolina-s-proposed-constitutional-amendments/17715772/

katsiki

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1112 on: November 06, 2018, 03:08:37 PM »
I'm resurrecting this thread b/c of a phone convo this morning with my die-hard conservative father.  It had been a few months since I talked to him, and BOY is he frothing to get to the polls.  He has historically only voted occasionally for Democrats, usually centrist presidential candidates (e.g., he voted for Al Gore), but generally he votes GOP.  He voted for Trump and all the GOP candidates in 2016, as per usual.  His governor is a high-profile conservative for whom Dad previously voted twice.

But he is FROTHING to get to polls tomorrow, and told me he is going to vote-straight ticket Dem for the first time in his life, and plans to do so for every future state or national election until the GOP stops supporting Trump, and starts shifting their platform back to old school (ie somewhat sane) 80s style conservatism.

And he's in a swing state.

@wenchsenior   What changed his mind?  Just curious to hear whatever you are willing to share.

wenchsenior

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1113 on: November 06, 2018, 04:43:50 PM »
I'm resurrecting this thread b/c of a phone convo this morning with my die-hard conservative father.  It had been a few months since I talked to him, and BOY is he frothing to get to the polls.  He has historically only voted occasionally for Democrats, usually centrist presidential candidates (e.g., he voted for Al Gore), but generally he votes GOP.  He voted for Trump and all the GOP candidates in 2016, as per usual.  His governor is a high-profile conservative for whom Dad previously voted twice.

But he is FROTHING to get to polls tomorrow, and told me he is going to vote-straight ticket Dem for the first time in his life, and plans to do so for every future state or national election until the GOP stops supporting Trump, and starts shifting their platform back to old school (ie somewhat sane) 80s style conservatism.

And he's in a swing state.

@wenchsenior   What changed his mind?  Just curious to hear whatever you are willing to share.

I don't know exactly.  He hated Hillary Clinton for...reasons?  He voted for Bill Clinton once, so I suspect there was sexism and Fox news involvement.  Also, he's always subscribed to the (false, IMO) that a businessman would make a great president (probably b/c he was built and ran a business).  Again, I think he bought into the narrative that Trump was a 'great businessman' and somehow missed the fact of his bankruptcies and the fact that American banks haven't lent to him in years b/c he was a shitty business risk.  Again, I suspect Fox news involvement.  I think he thought that Trump's crazy behavior was just for show during the campaign.

About three months after the election, he was already regretting his vote. And while he was originally a huge Paul Ryan supporter, since Ryan's gutless displays of the past couple years, now Ryan is on Dad's shit list too.

Unique User

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1114 on: November 07, 2018, 05:57:56 AM »
One thing that is interesting, is the guy I've been seeing on and off, volunteered how he voted this election (early voted) and that he voted against all six amendments. He said he talked to friends and family how the laws would affect them, in how he decided to vote. The amendments put forth by the Republican-controlled Legislature on a slew of things, including stripping the (Democratic) governor of more powers, and restrictive voter ID laws.

https://www.wral.com/here-s-a-look-at-north-carolina-s-proposed-constitutional-amendments/17715772/

So disappointing that four of those amendments passed, but at least the ones that took power away from the governor didn't pass.  DH and I were talking about it this morning (he generally votes Republican, but didn't in 2016 and 2018) that if the cost of the four amendments that passed (crime victim protection, voter ID, lowering top income tax rate and hunting/fishing rights) were put on the ballot as well as a summary of the amendment they probably would not have passed.  DH is in favor of voter id, but thinks you should be able to use a variety of ids - social security cards, student id, etc but I'm quite sure NC will make it as restrictive as they can get away with.   

Aelias

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1115 on: November 07, 2018, 11:21:00 AM »
I'm resurrecting this thread b/c of a phone convo this morning with my die-hard conservative father.  It had been a few months since I talked to him, and BOY is he frothing to get to the polls.  He has historically only voted occasionally for Democrats, usually centrist presidential candidates (e.g., he voted for Al Gore), but generally he votes GOP.  He voted for Trump and all the GOP candidates in 2016, as per usual.  His governor is a high-profile conservative for whom Dad previously voted twice.

But he is FROTHING to get to polls tomorrow, and told me he is going to vote-straight ticket Dem for the first time in his life, and plans to do so for every future state or national election until the GOP stops supporting Trump, and starts shifting their platform back to old school (ie somewhat sane) 80s style conservatism.

And he's in a swing state.

This is so interesting to me.  My swing-state living, GOP voting in-laws have gone all in for Trump -- like various Trump signs decorating the INSIDE of their house all in. My FIL is the most interesting because in the 2016 Republican primary, he originally liked Scott Walker.  After he dropped out early on, FIL supported every other candidate along the way before FINALLY landing on Trump after it was obvious that he would be nominated.  And he admits that Trump is not a traditional conservative, particularly on the economic issues that really animate him.  My MIL is a religious social conservative and SUPER hated the Clintons.  But both are really ALL IN for Trump.

I think they've both bought into the sense of white grievance, where white, religious conservatives are the REAL victims of . . . everything.  They also think the world is a very dangerous place.  I kid you not, I got an email this week that said, "Christmas is coming--what do the kids want? Also, a student was shot at your college yesterday.  He's in the hospital, and they caught the shooter."  That just seemed like such an odd thing to bring up in an email about Christmas gifts. But maybe not if you think the world is really dangerous and your coastal liberal kids don't seem to get it.

It's hard to watch, particularly for my husband, but we're not cutting them out of our lives. They love us and love our kids, and for now, that's enough.  We don't talk about politics now. Back in Dubya years, my FIL used to debate all kinds of stuff with my husband and I and we all got a kick out of it.  Not anymore.  There's no common ground and it's way too easy to say things you can't take back.

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1116 on: November 07, 2018, 02:49:26 PM »
I'm resurrecting this thread b/c of a phone convo this morning with my die-hard conservative father.  It had been a few months since I talked to him, and BOY is he frothing to get to the polls.  He has historically only voted occasionally for Democrats, usually centrist presidential candidates (e.g., he voted for Al Gore), but generally he votes GOP.  He voted for Trump and all the GOP candidates in 2016, as per usual.  His governor is a high-profile conservative for whom Dad previously voted twice.

But he is FROTHING to get to polls tomorrow, and told me he is going to vote-straight ticket Dem for the first time in his life, and plans to do so for every future state or national election until the GOP stops supporting Trump, and starts shifting their platform back to old school (ie somewhat sane) 80s style conservatism.

And he's in a swing state.

This is so interesting to me.  My swing-state living, GOP voting in-laws have gone all in for Trump -- like various Trump signs decorating the INSIDE of their house all in. My FIL is the most interesting because in the 2016 Republican primary, he originally liked Scott Walker.  After he dropped out early on, FIL supported every other candidate along the way before FINALLY landing on Trump after it was obvious that he would be nominated.  And he admits that Trump is not a traditional conservative, particularly on the economic issues that really animate him.  My MIL is a religious social conservative and SUPER hated the Clintons.  But both are really ALL IN for Trump.

I think they've both bought into the sense of white grievance, where white, religious conservatives are the REAL victims of . . . everything.  They also think the world is a very dangerous place.  I kid you not, I got an email this week that said, "Christmas is coming--what do the kids want? Also, a student was shot at your college yesterday.  He's in the hospital, and they caught the shooter."  That just seemed like such an odd thing to bring up in an email about Christmas gifts. But maybe not if you think the world is really dangerous and your coastal liberal kids don't seem to get it.

It's hard to watch, particularly for my husband, but we're not cutting them out of our lives. They love us and love our kids, and for now, that's enough.  We don't talk about politics now. Back in Dubya years, my FIL used to debate all kinds of stuff with my husband and I and we all got a kick out of it.  Not anymore.  There's no common ground and it's way too easy to say things you can't take back.


talltexan

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1117 on: November 12, 2018, 06:59:37 AM »
Despite my username, I never supported George W. Bush. Voted against him in a GOP primary, voted against him in two general elections. Some of Bush' policies and mismanagement were, frankly, catastrophic. While he was President, I was continually frustrated by people who seemed unable to notice this.

I think this summary here gets it right, although it does not mention hurrican Katrina: https://millercenter.org/president/gwbush/impact-and-legacy

But the contrast between his statement following Republicans' losing the House in 2006, and Trump's responses to the election this week is...large. I cannot help but think that Bush has a respect for reality, rule of law, and our liberal (small 'L') values that Trump doesn't have. And I do miss that.

It's easy to find a video of this statement by searching "bush statement following 2006 election pelosi" into google.

I also have this link: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/09/election.main/index.html


Nick_Miller

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1118 on: November 12, 2018, 07:45:47 AM »
Hell yes I regret it. I was a Republican into my 30s. I tell myself that the GOP wasn't so vile 10 years ago, but I am selling myself a fiction to make me feel better. I viewed them as the party helping small businesses, teaching personal responsibility, and being tough on rogue regimes.

I have friends who voted for Trump. Many of them said, "Nick, I hated Hillary so much and just couldn't vote for her. It's the Dems' fault for running her." To which I say, "So you voted for the person who we all knew was a lunatic based on his behavior in the GOP primaries?"

It makes me sick to my stomach that I ever supported the party of racists, ageists, misogynists, bigots, xenophobes, science deniers, anti-intellectuals, greedy fat cats, gun nuts, and religious whackos.  (The problem is, even though there is a ton of overlap, when you add all those groups together, you get a pretty large group of people).

The Dems are FAR from perfect. Tons of corruption and lots of class warfare stuff. They are FAR from my ideal party, but it's not even a close call right now. The two parties are not equally objectionable.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 07:49:46 AM by Nick_Miller »

Slee_stack

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1119 on: November 12, 2018, 10:45:17 AM »
I have historically voted all over the map.  Heck I voted GOP, Democrat and Libertarian on our mid term tickets.

Call me crazy, I vote for the person that has the most viewpoints or behavior history I feel aligned with.

I generally despise the extreme whack jobs on both sides.   What happened to middle of the road candidates?  Why does one need to be be a nut job to win?

ketchup

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1120 on: November 12, 2018, 10:48:23 AM »
I generally despise the extreme whack jobs on both sides.   What happened to middle of the road candidates?  Why does one need to be be a nut job to win?
Appeal to the "base" of "your side" to get on the ticket, then run as "not the other side."  Rinse, repeat.  There are solutions to this, but they aren't in the interest of either two major parties, so they won't happen.

talltexan

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1121 on: November 13, 2018, 07:16:36 AM »
"nut jobs" win because we have a system of primaries for mostly safe seats. So the primary voters ("nut jobs") select an extreme candidate who is assured of beating a doofus because the other party knows they cannot win the seat, so deploys their best candidates elsewhere.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1122 on: November 13, 2018, 12:41:46 PM »
It makes me sick to my stomach that I ever supported the party of racists, ageists, misogynists, bigots, xenophobes, science deniers, anti-intellectuals, greedy fat cats, gun nuts, and religious whackos.  (The problem is, even though there is a ton of overlap, when you add all those groups together, you get a pretty large group of people).

That description sounds like a southern Democrat to me.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1123 on: November 13, 2018, 01:10:40 PM »
It makes me sick to my stomach that I ever supported the party of racists, ageists, misogynists, bigots, xenophobes, science deniers, anti-intellectuals, greedy fat cats, gun nuts, and religious whackos.  (The problem is, even though there is a ton of overlap, when you add all those groups together, you get a pretty large group of people).

That description sounds like a southern Democrat to me.

Pre-Nixon's Southern Strategy, sure.

Laserjet3051

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1124 on: November 13, 2018, 01:51:48 PM »
No.

The only (candidate) vote I truly regret was for Obama's first term. Live and learn.

RangerOne

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1125 on: November 13, 2018, 02:01:02 PM »
I am having trouble putting myself in a conservatives shoes. Give me a left wing ancillary to Trump. So that I could ponder about how I feel about them being president. And possibly voting for them over say Jeb Bush.

I would frankly be a bit surprised if anyone who voted for Trump on most of his main issues is all that regretful. I guess the trade war stuff may be having an adverse effect. But his general issues have been there since day one and voters clearly looked past those...

The only voters I could see leaving him are independents banking on trade changes improving their work outlook. If that doesn't really take off, then will they abandon Trump. Or give him another 4 years to deliver? Its hard to say.

Conservatives on regulations, anti abortion and immigration have a lot to celebrate under Trump I guess...


RangerOne

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1126 on: November 13, 2018, 02:08:19 PM »
As far as getting back to original question, does anyone regret voting Republican, the guy I've been seeing (who I didn't realize was Republican because when I asked before dating whether he had voted for Trump said no (only because he didn't vote)). I said, what do you think of Trump now? And he said, well I think maybe he's made some mistakes, but I think he's smart, he's a smart businessman, he wouldn't be where he is now if he didn't know what he was doing, so I think he going to make good decisions. But when I mentioned what did he think about the fact he is now implicated in federal crimes, he got defensive and said, look I'm not political. And we had previously agreed not to talk about politics, so we changed the subject. Basically he seems totally comfortable having Trump as president, thinks he doing a good job, making good decisions (when I asked him for an example said he's going to "fix" the ACA, because it's too expensive).   

One thing that I think is relevant to his thought process, is the same weekend we were talking about something unrelated (business stuff) and he explained that rules and regulations, are not absolute; t's really more about knowing the right person, and one person might tell you no, but if they know you know someone influential it will happen. Basically, only the dumb people follow the rules. Maybe he identifies with Trump?

Bottom line, I see someone who made up their mind about him (positively) on very little information (aka reputation as a successful businessman). Despite more and more "data" to look at, is not willing to examine that data or revisit their original opinion. Kind of like I made money on black, no matter how many times red comes up I'm going to keep it on black no matter what.

When I hear a person refer to Trump as a smart business man my regard for their judgment of character immediately goes in the shitter.

I have extended family with such opinions. I don't hate them. But I strongly question of the intelligence of anyone that doesn't realize Trump is a circus clown at best.

If a person is generally nice enough I can generally look past such opinions. I had a co-worker that fit that bill. I would struggle to date someone that deeply believed Trump was intelligent. I don't like being that divergent on core perceptions of reality with a person I am close to to. That goes for close friends or a spouse.

I could overlook it if the friend was not obnoxious about their opinion, but I feel like my partner and I should be cognitively aligned on major world views. It just makes big decisions easier if you are building a family.

GuitarStv

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1127 on: November 13, 2018, 03:36:02 PM »
It makes me sick to my stomach that I ever supported the party of racists, ageists, misogynists, bigots, xenophobes, science deniers, anti-intellectuals, greedy fat cats, gun nuts, and religious whackos.  (The problem is, even though there is a ton of overlap, when you add all those groups together, you get a pretty large group of people).

That description sounds like a southern Democrat to me.

Pre-Nixon's Southern Strategy, sure.

That's sort of what I was thinking.  Before the Republicans explicitly embraced racism, sexism, and bigotry as part of their strategy the argument can be made that the Democrats were worse.  Anti-intellectualism and science denial is a newer addition to the Republican party that seems to have found it's hold over the past thirty years or so, starting around the GW Bush era.

Guns n'God have always been part of the Republican party as far back as I can remember.

sixwings

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1128 on: November 13, 2018, 09:02:14 PM »
It makes me sick to my stomach that I ever supported the party of racists, ageists, misogynists, bigots, xenophobes, science deniers, anti-intellectuals, greedy fat cats, gun nuts, and religious whackos.  (The problem is, even though there is a ton of overlap, when you add all those groups together, you get a pretty large group of people).

That description sounds like a southern Democrat to me.

Pre-Nixon's Southern Strategy, sure.

That's sort of what I was thinking.  Before the Republicans explicitly embraced racism, sexism, and bigotry as part of their strategy the argument can be made that the Democrats were worse.  Anti-intellectualism and science denial is a newer addition to the Republican party that seems to have found it's hold over the past thirty years or so, starting around the GW Bush era.

Guns n'God have always been part of the Republican party as far back as I can remember.

The stupid GOP may have started quietly under GWB but really took off when McCain selected Palin. That's when it become acceptable, even desirable for the GOP politicians to be really ignorant of basic facts.

talltexan

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1129 on: November 14, 2018, 07:09:10 AM »
It makes me sick to my stomach that I ever supported the party of racists, ageists, misogynists, bigots, xenophobes, science deniers, anti-intellectuals, greedy fat cats, gun nuts, and religious whackos.  (The problem is, even though there is a ton of overlap, when you add all those groups together, you get a pretty large group of people).

That description sounds like a southern Democrat to me.

Pre-Nixon's Southern Strategy, sure.

That's sort of what I was thinking.  Before the Republicans explicitly embraced racism, sexism, and bigotry as part of their strategy the argument can be made that the Democrats were worse.  Anti-intellectualism and science denial is a newer addition to the Republican party that seems to have found it's hold over the past thirty years or so, starting around the GW Bush era.

Guns n'God have always been part of the Republican party as far back as I can remember.

Actually, the first openly evangelical Christian President was Jimmy Carter. Evangelicals abandoned him because he didn't seem interested in overturning Roe v. Wade.

This thread is getting at a very real "rotation" of social conservatives, and--yes--racists out of Democratic politics and into Republican politics. Modern Trump supporters are indeed reminding Democrats of their party's position on the wrong side of history from 1850-1965. While historically accurate, this is whataboutism, and the only proper response is:

so let me just confirm for the moment: you think racism is wrong? Wrong then and wrong now?

freya

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1130 on: November 15, 2018, 07:46:18 AM »
Before the Republicans explicitly embraced racism, sexism, and bigotry as part of their strategy the argument can be made that the Democrats were worse.  Anti-intellectualism and science denial is a newer addition to the Republican party that seems to have found it's hold over the past thirty years or so, starting around the GW Bush era.

Guns n'God have always been part of the Republican party as far back as I can remember.

OK warning...possibly very unusual view ahead....

This "racism" taunt directed at Republicans because of their take on immigration really, really bothers me.  It's conflating two issues that aren't really related, and it speaks to either intellectual laziness or a deliberate attempt to obfuscate in order to achieve the real objective of the opposing policy view.  This is to suppress wages for the lower and middle classes by importing (or allowing in, in a totally uncontrolled manner) a large, permanent underclass.  There's a word for a setup like that:  feudalism.  Historically it hasn't worked out well.

What's the problem with wanting to reform our immigration system to a points-based one like Canada and Australia have, while taking steps to control the borders?  To be completely consistent, you would have to accuse those countries of racism too.  I am perfectly happy for anyone of any race, religion, or nationality to come here, as long as they can be self-sufficient and a positive force. The proposed points system has NO tests for race, religion or nationality.  And mandatory e-verify, which I greatly favor, doesn't care about race either.  So maybe someone can explain to me exactly how this is racist?



jeninco

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1131 on: November 15, 2018, 08:12:03 AM »
Before the Republicans explicitly embraced racism, sexism, and bigotry as part of their strategy the argument can be made that the Democrats were worse.  Anti-intellectualism and science denial is a newer addition to the Republican party that seems to have found it's hold over the past thirty years or so, starting around the GW Bush era.

Guns n'God have always been part of the Republican party as far back as I can remember.

OK warning...possibly very unusual view ahead....

This "racism" taunt directed at Republicans because of their take on immigration really, really bothers me.  It's conflating two issues that aren't really related, and it speaks to either intellectual laziness or a deliberate attempt to obfuscate in order to achieve the real objective of the opposing policy view.  This is to suppress wages for the lower and middle classes by importing (or allowing in, in a totally uncontrolled manner) a large, permanent underclass.  There's a word for a setup like that:  feudalism.  Historically it hasn't worked out well.

What's the problem with wanting to reform our immigration system to a points-based one like Canada and Australia have, while taking steps to control the borders?  To be completely consistent, you would have to accuse those countries of racism too.  I am perfectly happy for anyone of any race, religion, or nationality to come here, as long as they can be self-sufficient and a positive force. The proposed points system has NO tests for race, religion or nationality.  And mandatory e-verify, which I greatly favor, doesn't care about race either.  So maybe someone can explain to me exactly how this is racist?

I'm pretty sure part of the "racism" comment means (at least in part) racism toward non-white people who are already American citizens, of which there is ample evidence all over the place: see the president's "Good people on both sides" and all. If you're not decrying the white supremacist movement, you're pretty much condoning it.

The asylum system is separate from the rest of the immigration issues, I believe. Are we really proposing to send people with legitimate fear for their lives right back to where they fled from? There seems to be a fair bit of racism inherent in this, as generally people are fleeing from the global south (i.e. it's people of color) rather than the global north. See "shithole countries."

wenchsenior

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1132 on: November 15, 2018, 08:19:42 AM »
Before the Republicans explicitly embraced racism, sexism, and bigotry as part of their strategy the argument can be made that the Democrats were worse.  Anti-intellectualism and science denial is a newer addition to the Republican party that seems to have found it's hold over the past thirty years or so, starting around the GW Bush era.

Guns n'God have always been part of the Republican party as far back as I can remember.

OK warning...possibly very unusual view ahead....

This "racism" taunt directed at Republicans because of their take on immigration really, really bothers me.  It's conflating two issues that aren't really related, and it speaks to either intellectual laziness or a deliberate attempt to obfuscate in order to achieve the real objective of the opposing policy view.  This is to suppress wages for the lower and middle classes by importing (or allowing in, in a totally uncontrolled manner) a large, permanent underclass.  There's a word for a setup like that:  feudalism.  Historically it hasn't worked out well.

What's the problem with wanting to reform our immigration system to a points-based one like Canada and Australia have, while taking steps to control the borders?  To be completely consistent, you would have to accuse those countries of racism too.  I am perfectly happy for anyone of any race, religion, or nationality to come here, as long as they can be self-sufficient and a positive force. The proposed points system has NO tests for race, religion or nationality.  And mandatory e-verify, which I greatly favor, doesn't care about race either.  So maybe someone can explain to me exactly how this is racist?

I have voted mostly Dem my whole adult life, and mostly agree with your view on immigration.  I view the GOP as the more racist party because it appears to be the default home of more categories of bigoted voters of all types, including the racists.  In some cases, the GOP (voters and politicians) demonstrate active racism in their preferred immigration policy as well, but not always (see Trump and co. as compared with e.g., Jeb Bush).

The modern GOP supports and welcomes bigoted voters more so than the modern DEM party. That's why I view them as more racist.

GuitarStv

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1133 on: November 15, 2018, 08:21:06 AM »
Before the Republicans explicitly embraced racism, sexism, and bigotry as part of their strategy the argument can be made that the Democrats were worse.  Anti-intellectualism and science denial is a newer addition to the Republican party that seems to have found it's hold over the past thirty years or so, starting around the GW Bush era.

Guns n'God have always been part of the Republican party as far back as I can remember.

OK warning...possibly very unusual view ahead....

This "racism" taunt directed at Republicans because of their take on immigration really, really bothers me.  It's conflating two issues that aren't really related, and it speaks to either intellectual laziness or a deliberate attempt to obfuscate in order to achieve the real objective of the opposing policy view.  This is to suppress wages for the lower and middle classes by importing (or allowing in, in a totally uncontrolled manner) a large, permanent underclass.  There's a word for a setup like that:  feudalism.  Historically it hasn't worked out well.

What's the problem with wanting to reform our immigration system to a points-based one like Canada and Australia have, while taking steps to control the borders?  To be completely consistent, you would have to accuse those countries of racism too.  I am perfectly happy for anyone of any race, religion, or nationality to come here, as long as they can be self-sufficient and a positive force. The proposed points system has NO tests for race, religion or nationality.  And mandatory e-verify, which I greatly favor, doesn't care about race either.  So maybe someone can explain to me exactly how this is racist?

That's quite a straw man, arguing against immigration reform when I didn't mention immigration at all in my post.

Quote
You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."
  - Republican strategist Lee Atwater (1981 interview - https://youtu.be/AT2fsv7xt4E)

Quote
Using newly available data, we reexamine one of the largest partisan shifts in a modern democracy: Southern whites’ exodus from the Democratic Party. We show that defection among racially conservative whites explains the entire decline from 1958 to 1980. Racial attitudes also predict whites’ earlier partisan shifts. Relative to recent work, we find a much larger role for racial views and essentially no role for income growth or (non-race-related) policy preferences in explaining why Democrats “lost” the South.
- https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20161413&&from=f

The explicitly racist Republican strategy started with Nixon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy), and has continued in various ways ever since (suppression of black votes, gerrymandering based on race, racially charged arguments about Mexicans, kidnapping and separating children of refugees coming to the country, attempting to ban entry to the country based on religion of country of origin, support of racist police policy / jail sentencing/ drug policy / judge appointments (https://www.newsweek.com/republican-appointed-federal-judges-hand-longer-sentences-black-defendants-948138), etc.

The modern Republican party is an openly safe haven for racism.  It's why more than half of Trump voters believe that black people are less evolved (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/11/the-majority-of-trump-supporters-surveyed-described-black-people-as-less-evolved.html).  It's why 59% of Republicans believe that black people just need to try harder to succeed (https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/maf7idof71/econTabReport.pdf).

You've got a Republican president saying that Nazis are good guys, Mexicans are rapists.  You have actual self described nazis winning Republican primaries (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/us/politics/arthur-jones-illinois.html).  Republcan senators of 15 years openly supporting Nazis (https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/steve-king-white-nationalist-neo-nazi-retweet_us_5b200eaee4b0adfb826e8e40).

This goes on an on.  If you don't believe that the Republican party is objectively racist you must have your head pretty far in the sand.

radram

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1134 on: November 15, 2018, 08:31:59 AM »
Before the Republicans explicitly embraced racism, sexism, and bigotry as part of their strategy the argument can be made that the Democrats were worse.  Anti-intellectualism and science denial is a newer addition to the Republican party that seems to have found it's hold over the past thirty years or so, starting around the GW Bush era.

Guns n'God have always been part of the Republican party as far back as I can remember.

OK warning...possibly very unusual view ahead....

This "racism" taunt directed at Republicans because of their take on immigration really, really bothers me.  It's conflating two issues that aren't really related, and it speaks to either intellectual laziness or a deliberate attempt to obfuscate in order to achieve the real objective of the opposing policy view.  This is to suppress wages for the lower and middle classes by importing (or allowing in, in a totally uncontrolled manner) a large, permanent underclass.  There's a word for a setup like that:  feudalism.  Historically it hasn't worked out well.

What's the problem with wanting to reform our immigration system to a points-based one like Canada and Australia have, while taking steps to control the borders?  To be completely consistent, you would have to accuse those countries of racism too.  I am perfectly happy for anyone of any race, religion, or nationality to come here, as long as they can be self-sufficient and a positive force. The proposed points system has NO tests for race, religion or nationality.  And mandatory e-verify, which I greatly favor, doesn't care about race either.  So maybe someone can explain to me exactly how this is racist?

I would not consider this opinion gospel, buy it should help explain the opposing view better than I can:
Adam Ruins Everything on immigration.



Just like the war on drugs is a complete failure because it never successfully lowered the demand for drugs, the ONLY immigration plan that will successfully lower the demand will need to stop immigrants from wanting to come here. A wall just will not do that. I believe the new "catch and detain" policy about to be implemented will actually do the exact opposite. If you have a group that is in true fear for their life, then creating a complex where they are safe is exactly what they are looking for. Of course, if these "centers" have horrible conditions it would have the opposite effect.

The most recent "success" in curbing illegal immigration was the recession. People left in droves because they could not find work. Short of purposefully causing another one, a successful immigration policy MUST include the inability to find work. The most reasonable way to do this would be to target the EMPLOYER so the labor savings would no longer be worth the risk.

Anyone that targets any plan other than going after the employers, I question why. Usually the answer is to follow the money. Who will run the detention centers, for example? My guess would be prison companies, no?

JLee

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1135 on: November 15, 2018, 08:36:11 AM »
Before the Republicans explicitly embraced racism, sexism, and bigotry as part of their strategy the argument can be made that the Democrats were worse.  Anti-intellectualism and science denial is a newer addition to the Republican party that seems to have found it's hold over the past thirty years or so, starting around the GW Bush era.

Guns n'God have always been part of the Republican party as far back as I can remember.

OK warning...possibly very unusual view ahead....

This "racism" taunt directed at Republicans because of their take on immigration really, really bothers me.  It's conflating two issues that aren't really related, and it speaks to either intellectual laziness or a deliberate attempt to obfuscate in order to achieve the real objective of the opposing policy view.  This is to suppress wages for the lower and middle classes by importing (or allowing in, in a totally uncontrolled manner) a large, permanent underclass.  There's a word for a setup like that:  feudalism.  Historically it hasn't worked out well.

What's the problem with wanting to reform our immigration system to a points-based one like Canada and Australia have, while taking steps to control the borders?  To be completely consistent, you would have to accuse those countries of racism too.  I am perfectly happy for anyone of any race, religion, or nationality to come here, as long as they can be self-sufficient and a positive force. The proposed points system has NO tests for race, religion or nationality.  And mandatory e-verify, which I greatly favor, doesn't care about race either.  So maybe someone can explain to me exactly how this is racist?

I would not consider this opinion gospel, buy it should help explain the opposing view better than I can:
Adam Ruins Everything on immigration.



Just like the war on drugs is a complete failure because it never successfully lowered the demand for drugs, the ONLY immigration plan that will successfully lower the demand will need to stop immigrants from wanting to come here. A wall just will not do that. I believe the new "catch and detain" policy about to be implemented will actually do the exact opposite. If you have a group that is in true fear for their life, then creating a complex where they are safe is exactly what they are looking for. Of course, if these "centers" have horrible conditions it would have the opposite effect.

The most recent "success" in curbing illegal immigration was the recession. People left in droves because they could not find work. Short of purposefully causing another one, a successful immigration policy MUST include the inability to find work. The most reasonable way to do this would be to target the EMPLOYER so the labor savings would no longer be worth the risk.

Anyone that targets any plan other than going after the employers, I question why. Usually the answer is to follow the money. Who will run the detention centers, for example? My guess would be prison companies, no?

You're absolutely correct.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/us/migrant-shelters-border-crossing.html

partgypsy

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1136 on: November 15, 2018, 08:36:19 AM »
I would not be surprised if studies showed that Trump supporters are more dehumanizing of Hispanics, Muslims, and females as well, based on his (crowd pleasing) rhetoric.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1137 on: November 15, 2018, 08:48:52 AM »
I would not be surprised if studies showed that Trump supporters are more dehumanizing of Hispanics, Muslims, and females as well, based on his (crowd pleasing) rhetoric.

This. Good lord, how his rhetoric can actually produce CHEERS... It's revolting.

Dabnasty

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1138 on: November 15, 2018, 09:40:14 AM »
It's why more than half of Trump voters believe that black people are less evolved (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/11/the-majority-of-trump-supporters-surveyed-described-black-people-as-less-evolved.html).

And as of 2013, only 43% of Republicans believed in evolution...

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/01/03/republican-views-on-evolution-tracking-how-its-changed/

"Evolution is just a theory, but if it's true I'm the most evolved"

*I realize the first study presented the question with the assumption that evolution is fact and therefore respondents were forced to choose as if that were the case. My post is purely for comedy, don't think too hard about it :)

Schaefer Light

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1139 on: November 15, 2018, 10:21:12 AM »
I'll vote for a Democrat the day they say they want to make the government smaller and lower my taxes.

Kris

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1140 on: November 15, 2018, 10:23:33 AM »
I'll vote for a Democrat the day they say they want to make the government smaller and lower my taxes.

LOL

Meanwhile, that's what the GOP says... and I guess that's all that matters, because their actions say otherwise.

ysette9

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1141 on: November 15, 2018, 10:32:12 AM »
I'll vote for a Democrat the day they say they want to make the government smaller and lower my taxes.
Until some kind of natural disaster hits. Everyone seems to like government when they are rescuing you.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1142 on: November 15, 2018, 10:33:59 AM »
I'll vote for a Democrat the day they say they want to make the government smaller and lower my taxes.

LOL

Meanwhile, that's what the GOP says... and I guess that's all that matters, because their actions say otherwise.
I agree.  That's why I vote Libertarian.

onlykelsey

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1143 on: November 15, 2018, 10:44:25 AM »
The only Republican votes I've made:
  • Arlen Spector as my Pennsylvania senator, RIP.  (No regret)
  • Local Republican opposing a literal slumlord who inherited her seat from her father two years ago.  (No real regret, although the Republican woman seemed like an idiot and there was no chance she should win.  I don't think I'd do it now because I can't stomach voting for anyone in the GOP until it goes through some fundamental reworking and stops being so disgusting.)

AnswerIs42

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Re: Does Anyone Regret Voting Republican?
« Reply #1144 on: November 15, 2018, 01:31:51 PM »
It's why more than half of Trump voters believe that black people are less evolved (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/11/the-majority-of-trump-supporters-surveyed-described-black-people-as-less-evolved.html).

I'd love to see the Venn diagram on the people who said this, and those who believe evolution doesn't exist, to see how big the overlap is...