Author Topic: Do you like to gamble?  (Read 2237 times)

Dicey

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6870
  • Age: 59
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2018, 06:32:03 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.
Um, except this is a place devoted to achieving FIRE, not just making house payments.
I did it! I have a journal!
A Lot Like This
And hell yes, I am still moving confidently in the direction of my dreams...

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2018, 06:50:59 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.

A bit of an oxymoron. Kind of like smoking responsibly or drinking responsibly I suppose.

Rubic

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 911
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2018, 07:26:12 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.

A bit of an oxymoron. Kind of like smoking responsibly or drinking responsibly I suppose.

Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2018, 08:16:45 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.

A bit of an oxymoron. Kind of like smoking responsibly or drinking responsibly I suppose.

Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.

simonsez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
  • Age: 31
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2018, 09:32:18 AM »
Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.
Now I'm curious about what your definition is.  Ignoring professionals, gambling is just another activity that people spend their leisure/entertainment time and money on.  If someone allocates x dollars (provided x dollars is a subjectively minor amount) toward any type of entertainment and they stick to the amount, I'd say that is responsible*.

*-I'd argue that unhealthy activities can be done in a responsible manner as well since the definition doesn't only depend on financial or physical health.  Sometimes you go play bingo with your elderly aunt in a smoke-filled room once a month because you deem that the social and emotional benefits outweigh the negatives.

If the person spending on entertainment is okay with the trade-off of spending in the short term rather than investing for the long term, to each their own.  I imagine someone spending money on entertainment on this site is not dependent on the next paycheck to live and they already have quite healthy retirement plans.  Any amount of money spent on entertainment that is not under control or is altering other life goals a significant amount is clearly irresponsible.


GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10015
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2018, 09:53:38 AM »
Well, there's entertainment and then there's entertainment.

Many types of entertainment provide additional benefits beyond simply killing time.  You might get exercise and camaraderie by playing a sport, cutural enlightenment from visiting a museum, exposure to new ideas from reading a book, etc.  My experience around people who are gambling is that there isn't much additional benefit, but there are relatively high costs and at least some risk of habit forming negative behvaiour (typically more risk the more that someone enjoys it).

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2018, 10:12:20 AM »
Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.
Now I'm curious about what your definition is.  Ignoring professionals, gambling is just another activity that people spend their leisure/entertainment time and money on.  If someone allocates x dollars (provided x dollars is a subjectively minor amount) toward any type of entertainment and they stick to the amount, I'd say that is responsible*.

*-I'd argue that unhealthy activities can be done in a responsible manner as well since the definition doesn't only depend on financial or physical health.  Sometimes you go play bingo with your elderly aunt in a smoke-filled room once a month because you deem that the social and emotional benefits outweigh the negatives.

If the person spending on entertainment is okay with the trade-off of spending in the short term rather than investing for the long term, to each their own.  I imagine someone spending money on entertainment on this site is not dependent on the next paycheck to live and they already have quite healthy retirement plans.  Any amount of money spent on entertainment that is not under control or is altering other life goals a significant amount is clearly irresponsible.

I have family members who allocated "x" amount of dollars every week to purchase scratch off tickets. They stuck to that amount, does that mean they are responsible? After decades of doing this they are hundreds of thousands of dollars less wealthy. They regret doing it. Also have another family member that bet on horses roughly 5 days per week with "x" amount of money. They still do it to this day. Are they responsible as well?

Point being, I would argue that's a rather poor definition for what constitutes responsibility. I think claiming you can gamble responsibly is a pretty slipper slope and there is a lot of gray area. As for your analogy, I would suggest having a nice lunch in a smoke free environment. Seems more engaging and healthier. ( :

FWIW gambling itself is by definition, risk. The odds are rarely, if ever, in favor of achieving the desired outcome, unless your desired outcome is to lose money.   
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 10:18:30 AM by MasterStache »

RedefinedHappiness

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 129
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2018, 11:12:47 AM »
I gamble and do it profitably. We can argue the merits of whether this is influencing other negative social behaviors for those that are not profitable and we can talk about the individual costs (sitting, risk of compulsion) and benefits (social engagement, mental stimulation, stress relief) but simply stating that you can't make money gambling (over the long term) is ignorant.

FYI - I primarily play poker

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2018, 11:26:13 AM »
I gamble and do it profitably. We can argue the merits of whether this is influencing other negative social behaviors for those that are not profitable and we can talk about the individual costs (sitting, risk of compulsion) and benefits (social engagement, mental stimulation, stress relief) but simply stating that you can't make money gambling (over the long term) is ignorant.

FYI - I primarily play poker

Who said it's impossible to be profitable? I've made a decent amount of money in my rec fantasy football league.

RedefinedHappiness

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 129
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2018, 11:45:27 AM »
Your last post implied it even if not stated directly. But I'm not going to get in an argument about semantics. My point wasn't directed at you specifically, simply a general reminder to the anti-gambling posters some of which have talked about gambling slowing path to FIRE or akin to lighting money on fire.

Being profitable in a casino is rare but possible. I would speculate that less than 5% of gamblers are profitable. Seems like low odds, but so is what all of us are doing.  The comments reminded me of what all of us will experience with someone telling us we couldn't possibly retire because we are too young or not 65.

Perhaps to change the subject to the other merits or concerns on the topic, I will offer this comment.

I have gambling on my list of hobbies that I'm hoping to do more of when I retire.  A chance to engage in strategic battle while hanging out socially.  Gambling seems like a way for me to replace some elements of my job that I enjoy without having to be around the corporate politics.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2018, 12:08:17 PM »
Your last post implied it even if not stated directly. But I'm not going to get in an argument about semantics. My point wasn't directed at you specifically, simply a general reminder to the anti-gambling posters some of which have talked about gambling slowing path to FIRE or akin to lighting money on fire.

Being profitable in a casino is rare but possible. I would speculate that less than 5% of gamblers are profitable. Seems like low odds, but so is what all of us are doing.  The comments reminded me of what all of us will experience with someone telling us we couldn't possibly retire because we are too young or not 65.

Perhaps to change the subject to the other merits or concerns on the topic, I will offer this comment.

I have gambling on my list of hobbies that I'm hoping to do more of when I retire.  A chance to engage in strategic battle while hanging out socially.  Gambling seems like a way for me to replace some elements of my job that I enjoy without having to be around the corporate politics.

No I spoke of the odds not being in your favor, much like your bolded statement. Sure people can come out ahead. While others lose their life savings. And as was mentioned, it can lead to more repeated undesirable behaviors. I say good for you if you figured out how to make a profit. I watched first hand a family member that would win thousands one day and be on cloud nine. Only to go lose it all back, plus more, the very next day. It was like watching someone on drugs. Happy as clam one day, miserable and emotional the next. The highs and lows would have to be mentally exhausting, even if the overall net affect after many years, was a positive gain in money. For the record this person has lost hundreds of thousands. Perhaps I am bit a biased based on personal life experiences.

Early retirement is a different animal. You have some semblance of control and can in fact greatly increase the odds of early retirement though some lifestyle changes. There is always risk, but that can be mitigated.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 12:11:15 PM by MasterStache »

RedefinedHappiness

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 129
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2018, 12:27:05 PM »
Good convo MasterStache. I had a friend who went through an experience similar to what you described. The addiction was alcohol, drugs, and gambling. Anything that he could have been addicted to, he would have. Ended up dying in early 20s.

I'm sure I'm biased by my own experience while understanding this experience that you describe. I personally  see a lot of similarities to being a long term profitable gambler and early retirement. It takes discipline, understanding math, risk and social behaviors and bankroll management. 

But I digress. Thanks for sharing your experience.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2018, 12:37:21 PM »
Good convo MasterStache. I had a friend who went through an experience similar to what you described. The addiction was alcohol, drugs, and gambling. Anything that he could have been addicted to, he would have. Ended up dying in early 20s.

I'm sure I'm biased by my own experience while understanding this experience that you describe. I personally  see a lot of similarities to being a long term profitable gambler and early retirement. It takes discipline, understanding math, risk and social behaviors and bankroll management. 

But I digress. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Yes good convo! Funny that you brought up Math. I am having a heck of a time trying to convince my middle schooler of the importance of Math in every aspect of life, especially finances (to include early retirement).

NoraLenderbee

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1156
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2018, 03:37:09 PM »
I know people who treat gambling as entertainment. They allot a certain amount of money, and when it's gone, they stop. If they win, that's great, but for them the fun is simply in playing. A former coworker used to take weekend trips to Reno the same way someone would go to Tahoe to ski, or go somewhere for sightseeing and a show, or whatever. It's just another way to have fun for them. The only thing I don't really get is the fun part,  since to me gambling is about as fun as a really boring video game.

simonsez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
  • Age: 31
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2018, 04:28:37 PM »
Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.
Now I'm curious about what your definition is.  Ignoring professionals, gambling is just another activity that people spend their leisure/entertainment time and money on.  If someone allocates x dollars (provided x dollars is a subjectively minor amount) toward any type of entertainment and they stick to the amount, I'd say that is responsible*.

*-I'd argue that unhealthy activities can be done in a responsible manner as well since the definition doesn't only depend on financial or physical health.  Sometimes you go play bingo with your elderly aunt in a smoke-filled room once a month because you deem that the social and emotional benefits outweigh the negatives.

If the person spending on entertainment is okay with the trade-off of spending in the short term rather than investing for the long term, to each their own.  I imagine someone spending money on entertainment on this site is not dependent on the next paycheck to live and they already have quite healthy retirement plans.  Any amount of money spent on entertainment that is not under control or is altering other life goals a significant amount is clearly irresponsible.

I have family members who allocated "x" amount of dollars every week to purchase scratch off tickets. They stuck to that amount, does that mean they are responsible? After decades of doing this they are hundreds of thousands of dollars less wealthy. They regret doing it. Also have another family member that bet on horses roughly 5 days per week with "x" amount of money. They still do it to this day. Are they responsible as well?

Point being, I would argue that's a rather poor definition for what constitutes responsibility. I think claiming you can gamble responsibly is a pretty slipper slope and there is a lot of gray area. As for your analogy, I would suggest having a nice lunch in a smoke free environment. Seems more engaging and healthier. ( :

FWIW gambling itself is by definition, risk. The odds are rarely, if ever, in favor of achieving the desired outcome, unless your desired outcome is to lose money.   
I don't understand, are you agreeing with me that irresponsible behaviors are bad?  Or do you want me to agree with you that gambling can be a problem for many?  Or did you ignore the part of my post that dealt with being okay with the opportunity costs of gambling while having healthy retirement plans in place for me to consider it responsible?  What you described does not fit that bill.  I agree, that sounds very irresponsible of your relatives without knowing more about their situation.

As for a slipper slope, I think the general "you" should just be honest with yourself.  If your hobbies/entertainment budget/gambling balloons to a point that it is damaging life goals and relationships, then admit it.  If you're being dishonest about an activity (how often the activity occurs, hiding it from your spouse/friends/family, how much is being wagered, overstating the gains, ignoring/downplaying the losses, etc.), then you're probably going to be an irresponsible person in that regard.

I've stated in this thread I gamble in various ways a few hundred hours every year and would say the feasible range of outcomes is +/-$200.  I think that is an acceptable amount given everything that comes with the activities.  I enjoy the games I play for money and the socialization that comes with most of it.  If all of my gambling happened at a casino or horse track, then perhaps I would rethink the cost/benefit equation.  As it stands, that constitutes a small percentage.

Yes, gambling involves financial risks.  There are many types of gambling that do not occur in a casino or are sold at a convenience store.  Most of the gambling I personally do is zero-sum.  Ignoring skill level for zero-sum gambling, the EV is 0 plus I got to play a fun game or watch an event.  For the fraction of gambling I do that does have a negative EV, the amount I put at risk in a year is so small that it's hard to fathom how it would have any averse impact on my long-term plans.  I get lives have and are being ruined by gambling.  That's awful and I wish more had self-control but I am not ready for playing cards to be illegal and fantasy sports outlawed because of how others go off the deep end.  Admittedly, if I cut down my casino and horse track attendance to ZERO, my remaining gambling would probably be in the black every year. 

As for the bingo hall analogy, that was largely fictitious but I take your point.  I do have an aunt that does frequent the bingo hall but I hangout with her every month at our pinochle league (my grandfather's house is smoke-free). :-)

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2018, 06:16:25 PM »
Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.
Now I'm curious about what your definition is.  Ignoring professionals, gambling is just another activity that people spend their leisure/entertainment time and money on.  If someone allocates x dollars (provided x dollars is a subjectively minor amount) toward any type of entertainment and they stick to the amount, I'd say that is responsible*.

*-I'd argue that unhealthy activities can be done in a responsible manner as well since the definition doesn't only depend on financial or physical health.  Sometimes you go play bingo with your elderly aunt in a smoke-filled room once a month because you deem that the social and emotional benefits outweigh the negatives.

If the person spending on entertainment is okay with the trade-off of spending in the short term rather than investing for the long term, to each their own.  I imagine someone spending money on entertainment on this site is not dependent on the next paycheck to live and they already have quite healthy retirement plans.  Any amount of money spent on entertainment that is not under control or is altering other life goals a significant amount is clearly irresponsible.

I have family members who allocated "x" amount of dollars every week to purchase scratch off tickets. They stuck to that amount, does that mean they are responsible? After decades of doing this they are hundreds of thousands of dollars less wealthy. They regret doing it. Also have another family member that bet on horses roughly 5 days per week with "x" amount of money. They still do it to this day. Are they responsible as well?

Point being, I would argue that's a rather poor definition for what constitutes responsibility. I think claiming you can gamble responsibly is a pretty slipper slope and there is a lot of gray area. As for your analogy, I would suggest having a nice lunch in a smoke free environment. Seems more engaging and healthier. ( :

FWIW gambling itself is by definition, risk. The odds are rarely, if ever, in favor of achieving the desired outcome, unless your desired outcome is to lose money.   
I don't understand, are you agreeing with me that irresponsible behaviors are bad?  Or do you want me to agree with you that gambling can be a problem for many?  Or did you ignore the part of my post that dealt with being okay with the opportunity costs of gambling while having healthy retirement plans in place for me to consider it responsible?  What you described does not fit that bill.  I agree, that sounds very irresponsible of your relatives without knowing more about their situation.

As for a slipper slope, I think the general "you" should just be honest with yourself.  If your hobbies/entertainment budget/gambling balloons to a point that it is damaging life goals and relationships, then admit it.  If you're being dishonest about an activity (how often the activity occurs, hiding it from your spouse/friends/family, how much is being wagered, overstating the gains, ignoring/downplaying the losses, etc.), then you're probably going to be an irresponsible person in that regard.

I've stated in this thread I gamble in various ways a few hundred hours every year and would say the feasible range of outcomes is +/-$200.  I think that is an acceptable amount given everything that comes with the activities.  I enjoy the games I play for money and the socialization that comes with most of it.  If all of my gambling happened at a casino or horse track, then perhaps I would rethink the cost/benefit equation.  As it stands, that constitutes a small percentage.

Yes, gambling involves financial risks.  There are many types of gambling that do not occur in a casino or are sold at a convenience store.  Most of the gambling I personally do is zero-sum.  Ignoring skill level for zero-sum gambling, the EV is 0 plus I got to play a fun game or watch an event.  For the fraction of gambling I do that does have a negative EV, the amount I put at risk in a year is so small that it's hard to fathom how it would have any averse impact on my long-term plans.  I get lives have and are being ruined by gambling.  That's awful and I wish more had self-control but I am not ready for playing cards to be illegal and fantasy sports outlawed because of how others go off the deep end.  Admittedly, if I cut down my casino and horse track attendance to ZERO, my remaining gambling would probably be in the black every year. 

As for the bingo hall analogy, that was largely fictitious but I take your point.  I do have an aunt that does frequent the bingo hall but I hangout with her every month at our pinochle league (my grandfather's house is smoke-free). :-)

I was actually providing real life examples of folks who devote "x" amount of money to gambling while also being very irresponsible. As in I don't think that is a good indicator of responsible/irresponsible. I don't know truly what is. And perhaps the word "responsible" is a bit of a misnomer. Maybe self control? Maybe smart gambling? I don't know. I mean "responsible risk" just sounds like a straight up oxymoron. Just seems to me some folks can gamble without it leading to disaster. Sounds like good old fashion self control to me. But there is always that risk it could lead to some very bad things.

Personally I don't enjoy gambling. I've been to Casinos and I've been to Vegas, despite my family background. I allotted myself a certain amount of money and when I lost it, all I could think of was how big of a waste it was. As I stated before though, I enjoy fantasy football. That's the extent of my gambling these days. Well that and the rare convenient store hot dog. ( :
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:17:56 PM by MasterStache »

blinx7

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 128
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2018, 06:22:40 PM »

No.

Mathematically I know I will lose, I don't like that.

I do like playing poker with friends.  I don't even care if I lose.  But that's way different. 

Duke03

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 115
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2018, 12:41:57 PM »
I know people who treat gambling as entertainment. They allot a certain amount of money, and when it's gone, they stop. If they win, that's great, but for them the fun is simply in playing. A former coworker used to take weekend trips to Reno the same way someone would go to Tahoe to ski, or go somewhere for sightseeing and a show, or whatever. It's just another way to have fun for them. The only thing I don't really get is the fun part,  since to me gambling is about as fun as a really boring video game.

Exactly!   Thank you.  To add to the entertainment value most casino will give you free rooms, free food and free show tickets. 


 I don't understand all the gambler haters.  Just because some people can't manage to enjoy a vice without getting addicted doesn't mean everyone else can't enjoy it.  I went to Disney world in January and I went gambling in Feb.  Guess which trip cost more and which trip we had a better time on?  Disney cost me more than several gambling trips combined and I'll probably never go back to that place.  How anyone can call wall to wall people and standing in line for hours on end fun is beyond me but to each their own.  Also to all the naysayers out there.  I actually do pretty good gambling.  Enough so that I've had to pay taxes on winnings 3 out of the last 4 years even after writing off losses.  Before anyone else wants to open their mouth about investing ect every year I max out my 401k, Roth, and two separate pension funds.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10015
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2018, 01:08:45 PM »
I know people who treat gambling as entertainment. They allot a certain amount of money, and when it's gone, they stop. If they win, that's great, but for them the fun is simply in playing. A former coworker used to take weekend trips to Reno the same way someone would go to Tahoe to ski, or go somewhere for sightseeing and a show, or whatever. It's just another way to have fun for them. The only thing I don't really get is the fun part,  since to me gambling is about as fun as a really boring video game.

Exactly!   Thank you.  To add to the entertainment value most casino will give you free rooms, free food and free show tickets. 


 I don't understand all the gambler haters.  Just because some people can't manage to enjoy a vice without getting addicted doesn't mean everyone else can't enjoy it.  I went to Disney world in January and I went gambling in Feb.  Guess which trip cost more and which trip we had a better time on?  Disney cost me more than several gambling trips combined and I'll probably never go back to that place.  How anyone can call wall to wall people and standing in line for hours on end fun is beyond me but to each their own.  Also to all the naysayers out there.  I actually do pretty good gambling.  Enough so that I've had to pay taxes on winnings 3 out of the last 4 years even after writing off losses.  Before anyone else wants to open their mouth about investing ect every year I max out my 401k, Roth, and two separate pension funds.

I'd put paying money on a trip to one of the meccas of advertising and family sadness right up there with blowing money on red.  Fortunately you have other (much better) options.    :P

TheAnonOne

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1309
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2018, 01:26:06 PM »
My wife and I go to Vegas maybe 2 or 3 short weekends a year (2 full days) and she doesn't gamble. I like to sit down, have some drinks and play Blackjack.

I usually play higher stakes ($25/hand) and usually never win or lose "much". BJ isn't a game your going to walk away from a millionaire due to the 1:1 payout structure. (unlike slots where you COULD hit the jackpot) The house edge on perfectly played BJ is pretty small anyway.

The fun of the town really is grabbing a beer and walking the strip though.

libertarian4321

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #70 on: February 14, 2018, 04:37:09 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.

"Gambling responsibly?" 

What does that mean, you take the $10 in free chips they give you to prime the gambling fever, blow them, then find a quiet spot to read a good book?

talltexan

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1287
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2018, 08:21:41 AM »
A co-worker of mine has spent several conversations developing the argument that we need to increase our risk tolerance. Gaming is one way to do that.

There are other discussion threads that implore people seeking FIRE to own no bonds and invest 100% in stock index funds. That requires a colossal risk tolerance, particularly to stick with the plan and continue investing through a bear market like 2000. If you're the sort of person who loses $40 at a casino and cannot sleep that night (yes, that's me), are you the sort of person who can watch a 'stache built up with six years of saving lose 30% of its value and stick with the plan?

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10015
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2018, 09:44:13 AM »
A co-worker of mine has spent several conversations developing the argument that we need to increase our risk tolerance. Gaming is one way to do that.

There are other discussion threads that implore people seeking FIRE to own no bonds and invest 100% in stock index funds. That requires a colossal risk tolerance, particularly to stick with the plan and continue investing through a bear market like 2000. If you're the sort of person who loses $40 at a casino and cannot sleep that night (yes, that's me), are you the sort of person who can watch a 'stache built up with six years of saving lose 30% of its value and stick with the plan?


There's no benefit to increasing rick tolerance across the board.  If a risk is a stupid one to take (like gambling) you should be averse to it.  Tolerance of risk is based upon the probability of reward.  I don't think that the ability to throw money away in a casino increases your ability to take a 30 - 50% hit in the market.  They're just totally different behaviours.

casserole_dish

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Location: Westie
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2018, 01:00:30 AM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

I enjoy the occasional punt on the footy, but I'm strict; I have a limit, I stick to it and withdraw profits.
For some reason I have no problem gambling responsibly but I am unable to eat chocolate responsibly :(

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10015
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2018, 10:51:20 AM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.

simonsez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
  • Age: 31
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2018, 11:33:17 AM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.
Gambling is wagering money on something when the outcome is not certain with the hope to earn a prize.  Wagering money via an index fund with the desire to return a greater sum of money fits that, especially in the short term.

Index investing is like Dutching (not a Dutch book but related), a type of gambling strategy.  There is risk involved and you surely aren't guaranteed a gain in the short term but your strategy picks an entire host of legitimate "runners, horses, dogs, etc." while ignoring those categories unlikely to win (penny stocks, alternative investments, etc.).  The longer your horizon and provided the stable of investors remains or grows, the better the chance (arguably approaching 100%) this strategy will have a positive expected value.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10015
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2018, 11:40:30 AM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.

Gambling is wagering money on something when the outcome is not certain with the hope to earn a prize.

The difference being that the outcome of index investing is not uncertain, only the time-frame of the returns.

simonsez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
  • Age: 31
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #77 on: February 15, 2018, 12:38:58 PM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.

Gambling is wagering money on something when the outcome is not certain with the hope to earn a prize.

The difference being that the outcome of index investing is not uncertain, only the time-frame of the returns.
Ok, agree to disagree.  We have different definitions.  I would call the outcome uncertain if you invested in an index fund and sold it a week later.  I would call it certain if you sold it 30 years later.

It's a semantics issue.  I don't really call investing a type of gambling generally, all I said was you could make the argument it is for the short-term.

casserole_dish

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Location: Westie
Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2018, 01:17:12 PM »


How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.
I agree, but I wasn't talking about index investing

Gambling is wagering money on something when the outcome is not certain with the hope to earn a prize. 
This. Isn't this the expectation when people stock pick?