Author Topic: Do you like to gamble?  (Read 6860 times)

Dicey

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2018, 06:32:03 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.
Um, except this is a place devoted to achieving FIRE, not just making house payments.

MasterStache

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2018, 06:50:59 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.

A bit of an oxymoron. Kind of like smoking responsibly or drinking responsibly I suppose.

Rubic

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2018, 07:26:12 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.

A bit of an oxymoron. Kind of like smoking responsibly or drinking responsibly I suppose.

Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

MasterStache

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2018, 08:16:45 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.

A bit of an oxymoron. Kind of like smoking responsibly or drinking responsibly I suppose.

Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.

simonsez

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2018, 09:32:18 AM »
Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.
Now I'm curious about what your definition is.  Ignoring professionals, gambling is just another activity that people spend their leisure/entertainment time and money on.  If someone allocates x dollars (provided x dollars is a subjectively minor amount) toward any type of entertainment and they stick to the amount, I'd say that is responsible*.

*-I'd argue that unhealthy activities can be done in a responsible manner as well since the definition doesn't only depend on financial or physical health.  Sometimes you go play bingo with your elderly aunt in a smoke-filled room once a month because you deem that the social and emotional benefits outweigh the negatives.

If the person spending on entertainment is okay with the trade-off of spending in the short term rather than investing for the long term, to each their own.  I imagine someone spending money on entertainment on this site is not dependent on the next paycheck to live and they already have quite healthy retirement plans.  Any amount of money spent on entertainment that is not under control or is altering other life goals a significant amount is clearly irresponsible.


GuitarStv

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2018, 09:53:38 AM »
Well, there's entertainment and then there's entertainment.

Many types of entertainment provide additional benefits beyond simply killing time.  You might get exercise and camaraderie by playing a sport, cutural enlightenment from visiting a museum, exposure to new ideas from reading a book, etc.  My experience around people who are gambling is that there isn't much additional benefit, but there are relatively high costs and at least some risk of habit forming negative behvaiour (typically more risk the more that someone enjoys it).

MasterStache

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2018, 10:12:20 AM »
Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.
Now I'm curious about what your definition is.  Ignoring professionals, gambling is just another activity that people spend their leisure/entertainment time and money on.  If someone allocates x dollars (provided x dollars is a subjectively minor amount) toward any type of entertainment and they stick to the amount, I'd say that is responsible*.

*-I'd argue that unhealthy activities can be done in a responsible manner as well since the definition doesn't only depend on financial or physical health.  Sometimes you go play bingo with your elderly aunt in a smoke-filled room once a month because you deem that the social and emotional benefits outweigh the negatives.

If the person spending on entertainment is okay with the trade-off of spending in the short term rather than investing for the long term, to each their own.  I imagine someone spending money on entertainment on this site is not dependent on the next paycheck to live and they already have quite healthy retirement plans.  Any amount of money spent on entertainment that is not under control or is altering other life goals a significant amount is clearly irresponsible.

I have family members who allocated "x" amount of dollars every week to purchase scratch off tickets. They stuck to that amount, does that mean they are responsible? After decades of doing this they are hundreds of thousands of dollars less wealthy. They regret doing it. Also have another family member that bet on horses roughly 5 days per week with "x" amount of money. They still do it to this day. Are they responsible as well?

Point being, I would argue that's a rather poor definition for what constitutes responsibility. I think claiming you can gamble responsibly is a pretty slipper slope and there is a lot of gray area. As for your analogy, I would suggest having a nice lunch in a smoke free environment. Seems more engaging and healthier. ( :

FWIW gambling itself is by definition, risk. The odds are rarely, if ever, in favor of achieving the desired outcome, unless your desired outcome is to lose money.   
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 10:18:30 AM by MasterStache »

RedefinedHappiness

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2018, 11:12:47 AM »
I gamble and do it profitably. We can argue the merits of whether this is influencing other negative social behaviors for those that are not profitable and we can talk about the individual costs (sitting, risk of compulsion) and benefits (social engagement, mental stimulation, stress relief) but simply stating that you can't make money gambling (over the long term) is ignorant.

FYI - I primarily play poker

MasterStache

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2018, 11:26:13 AM »
I gamble and do it profitably. We can argue the merits of whether this is influencing other negative social behaviors for those that are not profitable and we can talk about the individual costs (sitting, risk of compulsion) and benefits (social engagement, mental stimulation, stress relief) but simply stating that you can't make money gambling (over the long term) is ignorant.

FYI - I primarily play poker

Who said it's impossible to be profitable? I've made a decent amount of money in my rec fantasy football league.

RedefinedHappiness

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2018, 11:45:27 AM »
Your last post implied it even if not stated directly. But I'm not going to get in an argument about semantics. My point wasn't directed at you specifically, simply a general reminder to the anti-gambling posters some of which have talked about gambling slowing path to FIRE or akin to lighting money on fire.

Being profitable in a casino is rare but possible. I would speculate that less than 5% of gamblers are profitable. Seems like low odds, but so is what all of us are doing.  The comments reminded me of what all of us will experience with someone telling us we couldn't possibly retire because we are too young or not 65.

Perhaps to change the subject to the other merits or concerns on the topic, I will offer this comment.

I have gambling on my list of hobbies that I'm hoping to do more of when I retire.  A chance to engage in strategic battle while hanging out socially.  Gambling seems like a way for me to replace some elements of my job that I enjoy without having to be around the corporate politics.

MasterStache

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2018, 12:08:17 PM »
Your last post implied it even if not stated directly. But I'm not going to get in an argument about semantics. My point wasn't directed at you specifically, simply a general reminder to the anti-gambling posters some of which have talked about gambling slowing path to FIRE or akin to lighting money on fire.

Being profitable in a casino is rare but possible. I would speculate that less than 5% of gamblers are profitable. Seems like low odds, but so is what all of us are doing.  The comments reminded me of what all of us will experience with someone telling us we couldn't possibly retire because we are too young or not 65.

Perhaps to change the subject to the other merits or concerns on the topic, I will offer this comment.

I have gambling on my list of hobbies that I'm hoping to do more of when I retire.  A chance to engage in strategic battle while hanging out socially.  Gambling seems like a way for me to replace some elements of my job that I enjoy without having to be around the corporate politics.

No I spoke of the odds not being in your favor, much like your bolded statement. Sure people can come out ahead. While others lose their life savings. And as was mentioned, it can lead to more repeated undesirable behaviors. I say good for you if you figured out how to make a profit. I watched first hand a family member that would win thousands one day and be on cloud nine. Only to go lose it all back, plus more, the very next day. It was like watching someone on drugs. Happy as clam one day, miserable and emotional the next. The highs and lows would have to be mentally exhausting, even if the overall net affect after many years, was a positive gain in money. For the record this person has lost hundreds of thousands. Perhaps I am bit a biased based on personal life experiences.

Early retirement is a different animal. You have some semblance of control and can in fact greatly increase the odds of early retirement though some lifestyle changes. There is always risk, but that can be mitigated.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 12:11:15 PM by MasterStache »

RedefinedHappiness

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2018, 12:27:05 PM »
Good convo MasterStache. I had a friend who went through an experience similar to what you described. The addiction was alcohol, drugs, and gambling. Anything that he could have been addicted to, he would have. Ended up dying in early 20s.

I'm sure I'm biased by my own experience while understanding this experience that you describe. I personally  see a lot of similarities to being a long term profitable gambler and early retirement. It takes discipline, understanding math, risk and social behaviors and bankroll management. 

But I digress. Thanks for sharing your experience.

MasterStache

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2018, 12:37:21 PM »
Good convo MasterStache. I had a friend who went through an experience similar to what you described. The addiction was alcohol, drugs, and gambling. Anything that he could have been addicted to, he would have. Ended up dying in early 20s.

I'm sure I'm biased by my own experience while understanding this experience that you describe. I personally  see a lot of similarities to being a long term profitable gambler and early retirement. It takes discipline, understanding math, risk and social behaviors and bankroll management. 

But I digress. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Yes good convo! Funny that you brought up Math. I am having a heck of a time trying to convince my middle schooler of the importance of Math in every aspect of life, especially finances (to include early retirement).

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2018, 03:37:09 PM »
I know people who treat gambling as entertainment. They allot a certain amount of money, and when it's gone, they stop. If they win, that's great, but for them the fun is simply in playing. A former coworker used to take weekend trips to Reno the same way someone would go to Tahoe to ski, or go somewhere for sightseeing and a show, or whatever. It's just another way to have fun for them. The only thing I don't really get is the fun part,  since to me gambling is about as fun as a really boring video game.

simonsez

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2018, 04:28:37 PM »
Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.
Now I'm curious about what your definition is.  Ignoring professionals, gambling is just another activity that people spend their leisure/entertainment time and money on.  If someone allocates x dollars (provided x dollars is a subjectively minor amount) toward any type of entertainment and they stick to the amount, I'd say that is responsible*.

*-I'd argue that unhealthy activities can be done in a responsible manner as well since the definition doesn't only depend on financial or physical health.  Sometimes you go play bingo with your elderly aunt in a smoke-filled room once a month because you deem that the social and emotional benefits outweigh the negatives.

If the person spending on entertainment is okay with the trade-off of spending in the short term rather than investing for the long term, to each their own.  I imagine someone spending money on entertainment on this site is not dependent on the next paycheck to live and they already have quite healthy retirement plans.  Any amount of money spent on entertainment that is not under control or is altering other life goals a significant amount is clearly irresponsible.

I have family members who allocated "x" amount of dollars every week to purchase scratch off tickets. They stuck to that amount, does that mean they are responsible? After decades of doing this they are hundreds of thousands of dollars less wealthy. They regret doing it. Also have another family member that bet on horses roughly 5 days per week with "x" amount of money. They still do it to this day. Are they responsible as well?

Point being, I would argue that's a rather poor definition for what constitutes responsibility. I think claiming you can gamble responsibly is a pretty slipper slope and there is a lot of gray area. As for your analogy, I would suggest having a nice lunch in a smoke free environment. Seems more engaging and healthier. ( :

FWIW gambling itself is by definition, risk. The odds are rarely, if ever, in favor of achieving the desired outcome, unless your desired outcome is to lose money.   
I don't understand, are you agreeing with me that irresponsible behaviors are bad?  Or do you want me to agree with you that gambling can be a problem for many?  Or did you ignore the part of my post that dealt with being okay with the opportunity costs of gambling while having healthy retirement plans in place for me to consider it responsible?  What you described does not fit that bill.  I agree, that sounds very irresponsible of your relatives without knowing more about their situation.

As for a slipper slope, I think the general "you" should just be honest with yourself.  If your hobbies/entertainment budget/gambling balloons to a point that it is damaging life goals and relationships, then admit it.  If you're being dishonest about an activity (how often the activity occurs, hiding it from your spouse/friends/family, how much is being wagered, overstating the gains, ignoring/downplaying the losses, etc.), then you're probably going to be an irresponsible person in that regard.

I've stated in this thread I gamble in various ways a few hundred hours every year and would say the feasible range of outcomes is +/-$200.  I think that is an acceptable amount given everything that comes with the activities.  I enjoy the games I play for money and the socialization that comes with most of it.  If all of my gambling happened at a casino or horse track, then perhaps I would rethink the cost/benefit equation.  As it stands, that constitutes a small percentage.

Yes, gambling involves financial risks.  There are many types of gambling that do not occur in a casino or are sold at a convenience store.  Most of the gambling I personally do is zero-sum.  Ignoring skill level for zero-sum gambling, the EV is 0 plus I got to play a fun game or watch an event.  For the fraction of gambling I do that does have a negative EV, the amount I put at risk in a year is so small that it's hard to fathom how it would have any averse impact on my long-term plans.  I get lives have and are being ruined by gambling.  That's awful and I wish more had self-control but I am not ready for playing cards to be illegal and fantasy sports outlawed because of how others go off the deep end.  Admittedly, if I cut down my casino and horse track attendance to ZERO, my remaining gambling would probably be in the black every year. 

As for the bingo hall analogy, that was largely fictitious but I take your point.  I do have an aunt that does frequent the bingo hall but I hangout with her every month at our pinochle league (my grandfather's house is smoke-free). :-)

MasterStache

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2018, 06:16:25 PM »
Agree that there's no way to smoke responsibly, but do you actually think
it's not possible to drink responsibly?   I'm currently abstentious for
weight/fitness reasons, but otherwise don't mind a glass of wine at
dinner.
 

Depends on what you define as "responsibly." I suppose you could define certain types of moderate drinking as "responsible" provided you follow all the recommended guidelines (not pregnant, operating heavy machinery, etc.). I believe this typically applies to wine more than beer. Of course there are no health benefits to gambling. And taking a trip for 3 days with the sole purpose of gambling doesn't sound very responsible. Replace gambling with "drinking" and it doesn't sound responsible at all.
Now I'm curious about what your definition is.  Ignoring professionals, gambling is just another activity that people spend their leisure/entertainment time and money on.  If someone allocates x dollars (provided x dollars is a subjectively minor amount) toward any type of entertainment and they stick to the amount, I'd say that is responsible*.

*-I'd argue that unhealthy activities can be done in a responsible manner as well since the definition doesn't only depend on financial or physical health.  Sometimes you go play bingo with your elderly aunt in a smoke-filled room once a month because you deem that the social and emotional benefits outweigh the negatives.

If the person spending on entertainment is okay with the trade-off of spending in the short term rather than investing for the long term, to each their own.  I imagine someone spending money on entertainment on this site is not dependent on the next paycheck to live and they already have quite healthy retirement plans.  Any amount of money spent on entertainment that is not under control or is altering other life goals a significant amount is clearly irresponsible.

I have family members who allocated "x" amount of dollars every week to purchase scratch off tickets. They stuck to that amount, does that mean they are responsible? After decades of doing this they are hundreds of thousands of dollars less wealthy. They regret doing it. Also have another family member that bet on horses roughly 5 days per week with "x" amount of money. They still do it to this day. Are they responsible as well?

Point being, I would argue that's a rather poor definition for what constitutes responsibility. I think claiming you can gamble responsibly is a pretty slipper slope and there is a lot of gray area. As for your analogy, I would suggest having a nice lunch in a smoke free environment. Seems more engaging and healthier. ( :

FWIW gambling itself is by definition, risk. The odds are rarely, if ever, in favor of achieving the desired outcome, unless your desired outcome is to lose money.   
I don't understand, are you agreeing with me that irresponsible behaviors are bad?  Or do you want me to agree with you that gambling can be a problem for many?  Or did you ignore the part of my post that dealt with being okay with the opportunity costs of gambling while having healthy retirement plans in place for me to consider it responsible?  What you described does not fit that bill.  I agree, that sounds very irresponsible of your relatives without knowing more about their situation.

As for a slipper slope, I think the general "you" should just be honest with yourself.  If your hobbies/entertainment budget/gambling balloons to a point that it is damaging life goals and relationships, then admit it.  If you're being dishonest about an activity (how often the activity occurs, hiding it from your spouse/friends/family, how much is being wagered, overstating the gains, ignoring/downplaying the losses, etc.), then you're probably going to be an irresponsible person in that regard.

I've stated in this thread I gamble in various ways a few hundred hours every year and would say the feasible range of outcomes is +/-$200.  I think that is an acceptable amount given everything that comes with the activities.  I enjoy the games I play for money and the socialization that comes with most of it.  If all of my gambling happened at a casino or horse track, then perhaps I would rethink the cost/benefit equation.  As it stands, that constitutes a small percentage.

Yes, gambling involves financial risks.  There are many types of gambling that do not occur in a casino or are sold at a convenience store.  Most of the gambling I personally do is zero-sum.  Ignoring skill level for zero-sum gambling, the EV is 0 plus I got to play a fun game or watch an event.  For the fraction of gambling I do that does have a negative EV, the amount I put at risk in a year is so small that it's hard to fathom how it would have any averse impact on my long-term plans.  I get lives have and are being ruined by gambling.  That's awful and I wish more had self-control but I am not ready for playing cards to be illegal and fantasy sports outlawed because of how others go off the deep end.  Admittedly, if I cut down my casino and horse track attendance to ZERO, my remaining gambling would probably be in the black every year. 

As for the bingo hall analogy, that was largely fictitious but I take your point.  I do have an aunt that does frequent the bingo hall but I hangout with her every month at our pinochle league (my grandfather's house is smoke-free). :-)

I was actually providing real life examples of folks who devote "x" amount of money to gambling while also being very irresponsible. As in I don't think that is a good indicator of responsible/irresponsible. I don't know truly what is. And perhaps the word "responsible" is a bit of a misnomer. Maybe self control? Maybe smart gambling? I don't know. I mean "responsible risk" just sounds like a straight up oxymoron. Just seems to me some folks can gamble without it leading to disaster. Sounds like good old fashion self control to me. But there is always that risk it could lead to some very bad things.

Personally I don't enjoy gambling. I've been to Casinos and I've been to Vegas, despite my family background. I allotted myself a certain amount of money and when I lost it, all I could think of was how big of a waste it was. As I stated before though, I enjoy fantasy football. That's the extent of my gambling these days. Well that and the rare convenient store hot dog. ( :
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:17:56 PM by MasterStache »

blinx7

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2018, 06:22:40 PM »

No.

Mathematically I know I will lose, I don't like that.

I do like playing poker with friends.  I don't even care if I lose.  But that's way different. 

Duke03

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2018, 12:41:57 PM »
I know people who treat gambling as entertainment. They allot a certain amount of money, and when it's gone, they stop. If they win, that's great, but for them the fun is simply in playing. A former coworker used to take weekend trips to Reno the same way someone would go to Tahoe to ski, or go somewhere for sightseeing and a show, or whatever. It's just another way to have fun for them. The only thing I don't really get is the fun part,  since to me gambling is about as fun as a really boring video game.

Exactly!   Thank you.  To add to the entertainment value most casino will give you free rooms, free food and free show tickets. 


 I don't understand all the gambler haters.  Just because some people can't manage to enjoy a vice without getting addicted doesn't mean everyone else can't enjoy it.  I went to Disney world in January and I went gambling in Feb.  Guess which trip cost more and which trip we had a better time on?  Disney cost me more than several gambling trips combined and I'll probably never go back to that place.  How anyone can call wall to wall people and standing in line for hours on end fun is beyond me but to each their own.  Also to all the naysayers out there.  I actually do pretty good gambling.  Enough so that I've had to pay taxes on winnings 3 out of the last 4 years even after writing off losses.  Before anyone else wants to open their mouth about investing ect every year I max out my 401k, Roth, and two separate pension funds.

GuitarStv

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2018, 01:08:45 PM »
I know people who treat gambling as entertainment. They allot a certain amount of money, and when it's gone, they stop. If they win, that's great, but for them the fun is simply in playing. A former coworker used to take weekend trips to Reno the same way someone would go to Tahoe to ski, or go somewhere for sightseeing and a show, or whatever. It's just another way to have fun for them. The only thing I don't really get is the fun part,  since to me gambling is about as fun as a really boring video game.

Exactly!   Thank you.  To add to the entertainment value most casino will give you free rooms, free food and free show tickets. 


 I don't understand all the gambler haters.  Just because some people can't manage to enjoy a vice without getting addicted doesn't mean everyone else can't enjoy it.  I went to Disney world in January and I went gambling in Feb.  Guess which trip cost more and which trip we had a better time on?  Disney cost me more than several gambling trips combined and I'll probably never go back to that place.  How anyone can call wall to wall people and standing in line for hours on end fun is beyond me but to each their own.  Also to all the naysayers out there.  I actually do pretty good gambling.  Enough so that I've had to pay taxes on winnings 3 out of the last 4 years even after writing off losses.  Before anyone else wants to open their mouth about investing ect every year I max out my 401k, Roth, and two separate pension funds.

I'd put paying money on a trip to one of the meccas of advertising and family sadness right up there with blowing money on red.  Fortunately you have other (much better) options.    :P

TheAnonOne

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2018, 01:26:06 PM »
My wife and I go to Vegas maybe 2 or 3 short weekends a year (2 full days) and she doesn't gamble. I like to sit down, have some drinks and play Blackjack.

I usually play higher stakes ($25/hand) and usually never win or lose "much". BJ isn't a game your going to walk away from a millionaire due to the 1:1 payout structure. (unlike slots where you COULD hit the jackpot) The house edge on perfectly played BJ is pretty small anyway.

The fun of the town really is grabbing a beer and walking the strip though.

libertarian4321

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #70 on: February 14, 2018, 04:37:09 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.

"Gambling responsibly?" 

What does that mean, you take the $10 in free chips they give you to prime the gambling fever, blow them, then find a quiet spot to read a good book?

talltexan

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2018, 08:21:41 AM »
A co-worker of mine has spent several conversations developing the argument that we need to increase our risk tolerance. Gaming is one way to do that.

There are other discussion threads that implore people seeking FIRE to own no bonds and invest 100% in stock index funds. That requires a colossal risk tolerance, particularly to stick with the plan and continue investing through a bear market like 2000. If you're the sort of person who loses $40 at a casino and cannot sleep that night (yes, that's me), are you the sort of person who can watch a 'stache built up with six years of saving lose 30% of its value and stick with the plan?

GuitarStv

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2018, 09:44:13 AM »
A co-worker of mine has spent several conversations developing the argument that we need to increase our risk tolerance. Gaming is one way to do that.

There are other discussion threads that implore people seeking FIRE to own no bonds and invest 100% in stock index funds. That requires a colossal risk tolerance, particularly to stick with the plan and continue investing through a bear market like 2000. If you're the sort of person who loses $40 at a casino and cannot sleep that night (yes, that's me), are you the sort of person who can watch a 'stache built up with six years of saving lose 30% of its value and stick with the plan?


There's no benefit to increasing rick tolerance across the board.  If a risk is a stupid one to take (like gambling) you should be averse to it.  Tolerance of risk is based upon the probability of reward.  I don't think that the ability to throw money away in a casino increases your ability to take a 30 - 50% hit in the market.  They're just totally different behaviours.

krustyburger

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2018, 01:00:30 AM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

I enjoy the occasional punt on the footy, but I'm strict; I have a limit, I stick to it and withdraw profits.
For some reason I have no problem gambling responsibly but I am unable to eat chocolate responsibly :(

GuitarStv

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2018, 10:51:20 AM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.

simonsez

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2018, 11:33:17 AM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.
Gambling is wagering money on something when the outcome is not certain with the hope to earn a prize.  Wagering money via an index fund with the desire to return a greater sum of money fits that, especially in the short term.

Index investing is like Dutching (not a Dutch book but related), a type of gambling strategy.  There is risk involved and you surely aren't guaranteed a gain in the short term but your strategy picks an entire host of legitimate "runners, horses, dogs, etc." while ignoring those categories unlikely to win (penny stocks, alternative investments, etc.).  The longer your horizon and provided the stable of investors remains or grows, the better the chance (arguably approaching 100%) this strategy will have a positive expected value.

GuitarStv

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2018, 11:40:30 AM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.

Gambling is wagering money on something when the outcome is not certain with the hope to earn a prize.

The difference being that the outcome of index investing is not uncertain, only the time-frame of the returns.

simonsez

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #77 on: February 15, 2018, 12:38:58 PM »
How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.

Gambling is wagering money on something when the outcome is not certain with the hope to earn a prize.

The difference being that the outcome of index investing is not uncertain, only the time-frame of the returns.
Ok, agree to disagree.  We have different definitions.  I would call the outcome uncertain if you invested in an index fund and sold it a week later.  I would call it certain if you sold it 30 years later.

It's a semantics issue.  I don't really call investing a type of gambling generally, all I said was you could make the argument it is for the short-term.

krustyburger

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2018, 01:17:12 PM »


How many people here who are anti-gambling like a bit of a play on the stock market? I'd argue the two have fairly similar behavioural aspects.

Speculation and gambling, sure.  It's hard to argue that an indexed investing approach is gambling though.
I agree, but I wasn't talking about index investing

Gambling is wagering money on something when the outcome is not certain with the hope to earn a prize. 
This. Isn't this the expectation when people stock pick?

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #79 on: July 02, 2018, 12:37:39 PM »
We live in a very small town, with a very small carryout. I think it is there because 60 years ago it was built and got a liquor license, so to keep the license, they stay open.

about 8 years ago, a guy, who lived 3 doors down, won one of those mega millions. He went together with a bunch of co workers and they each got something like 400 million.

Damn, it they didn't do the same thing 2 years later!

So, TheHusbandHalf buys a ticket every week, from the same place. I never disagree, so I must like gambling.

Kind of sad:
The guy's wife was a year behind me in school, and the family was friends with mine growing up. The guy that won the lottery 2 times committed suicide 2 years ago. I did notice that his in laws upgraded their house a bit.

Raymond Reddington

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2018, 12:37:40 PM »
Only on games where I am playing against other players (not the house), skill is involved, and the outcome of games is not entirely dependent on luck. (Read: Texas Hold'Em Poker)

Ironically, most of my friends don't play anymore because "it's too expensive". $200 is not a lot to me, but I guess to them it is. While I of course try not to, I'd be OK with losing $200. So, no one really plays anymore. I like poker, but it feels too much like a job if I buy in alone at a table full of strangers. Not sure why that is, but it's probably all the tournaments I played when I was younger...and the grinding I did at table games just to eke out a payout that was barely above minimum wage when all was said and done.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #81 on: July 29, 2018, 01:49:20 PM »
I played a slot machine while waiting for my plane at Las Vegas airport years ago... That is the extent of my gambling career :)



I've played a slot machine or two  when I've  taken my  friends to dinner at  casinos which I do once in a while.

In my entire life I've spent < $20 playing slot machines.


talltexan

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2018, 07:55:13 AM »
Only on games where I am playing against other players (not the house), skill is involved, and the outcome of games is not entirely dependent on luck. (Read: Texas Hold'Em Poker)

Ironically, most of my friends don't play anymore because "it's too expensive". $200 is not a lot to me, but I guess to them it is. While I of course try not to, I'd be OK with losing $200. So, no one really plays anymore. I like poker, but it feels too much like a job if I buy in alone at a table full of strangers. Not sure why that is, but it's probably all the tournaments I played when I was younger...and the grinding I did at table games just to eke out a payout that was barely above minimum wage when all was said and done.

I'd rather play craps because I like the idea of everyone being on the same team. Yes, there's a house edge, but use your money to build relationships.

trollwithamustache

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #83 on: August 31, 2018, 08:06:10 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble

"Gambling responsibly?" 

What does that mean, you take the $10 in free chips they give you to prime the gambling fever, blow them, then find a quiet spot to read a good book?

If our blackjack man follows the card with all the betting rules, he may be able to sit down with a 100 bucks and last a long time. Long enough that the 50 or so he looses is about what his bar tab should have been. 

If he can walk away then, sure it was responsible. Bonus, all the second hand smoke was free!

talltexan

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #84 on: August 31, 2018, 10:52:20 AM »
My wife and I are planning a cruise later in the Fall. it will be our first significant trip without kids in 2,400 days. One of the things about cruising is that it comes with access to the ship's casino, so I'm thinking through what I'm willing to put at risk in that casino.

Kl285528

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #85 on: September 01, 2018, 09:48:18 AM »
Yes.  Just got back from a 3 day casino trip.  Had a great time and can't wait to go back.  We gamble responsibly and practice bankroll management.  Never had a problem making the house payment.
Precisely my feeling. I love playing games, and cards, and it is great fun. Bankroll management is critical, which does require discipline when you lose 10 hands in a row, and blow one day's worth of bankroll in 5 minutes!!! Plus, if you are talking Vegas, it is a fun overwhelming experience for a few days.

BookLoverL

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2018, 01:34:11 AM »
I don't gamble. Occasionally I may put, say, 1 or 2 quid towards the tombola at the local village fete or a similar event, but I see that more as a donation to the village organisations (several of which are run as charities) with a chance of me also winning something, rather than actually gambling.

I do have some premium bonds, but I don't really see that as gambling either, because basically how it works is that you receive 0% interest on the chunk of your capital you've put in them, but you can withdraw that capital completely at any time, and for that you get a monthly chance of winning up to 1 million, with a lot of smaller prizes also available. So you're not just throwing your money in the bin like with the regular lottery, you're just sacrificing the interest you could have been earning.

Norioch

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #87 on: September 05, 2018, 02:25:03 AM »
No, I don't like gambling at all. I'm a math major and I couldn't respect myself as a mathematicians if I wagered money on a game I knew had unfavorable odds (which includes all casino games).

simonsez

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #88 on: September 05, 2018, 10:55:13 AM »
Self-respecting statistician chiming in ;-)

Just hosted a poker night on Sunday - lost $20 over 4 hours while drinking beer with some friends.  Was briefly annoyed on three hands when the proper play did not work out due to luck, but the other 237 minutes were a good time.  Hosted solo spades the weekend before, no nils or hands I could really work with (I think I only had one I bid 5 on) but only set once for the night and came in first, made $20.  The food and company were excellent, as always.  Bet on USAC sprint car races and the PGA Championship recently, I think I am down two dollars from that.  Pinochle is this Friday, really looking forward to it - has been a busy summer with trips and have not been able to make it since May.  Fantasy baseball has been rough with injuries but still have a chance to squeeze into the playoffs and do some damage.  I'd like to get a NDQ dealer-call-it house game going in September as well.  I have been to a casino once in 2018.  Haven't touched a scratch-off in months, will probably receive some for Christmas.  Going to lakehouse in a few weeks and plan is to golf 9 holes in the morning before we get out on the water - we will probably play a 2v2 shamble for $1/hole.

On a related note: I've been hearing a lot about these Queen of Hearts drawings happening at Elks lodges.  It's kinda like a major 50/50 drawing that then has a 1 in 52 (some places use jokers as well) of winning the main jackpot with ridiculously small prizes for other face cards or jokers.  If the card drawn is not the QH then the pot grows.  One drawing went for 1.2 mil.  Another went for 200k after the woman who won was not there - would've been 400k otherwise.  My friend was telling me about his local one where they still have 5 cards to draw and the pot was up to 90k.  He went and bought $5 worth of tickets and said he saw one guy put 1k down!  Man, that whole ordeal is some poor odds gambling!  I'll stick to mainly zero-sum among friends and the occasional casino.
Here's a link describing the way one lodge does the drawing:
https://www.elks.org/lodges/LodgePages.cfm?LodgeNumber=639&ID=15626

Parton

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #89 on: October 29, 2018, 05:23:51 PM »
I am definitely not a gambling person, but sometimes we play poker with friends for money. Pure amateur entertainment, I would definitely not go to the casino.

Archiis

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #90 on: October 30, 2018, 03:40:39 AM »
I am suspicious of rates.  I have repeatedly seen the advertisement of such sites or reviews of avid clients of these services, but all of my skepticism prevails.  Yes, and I'm not an avid and not a gambling man

talltexan

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #91 on: October 30, 2018, 07:09:46 AM »
I'm going to be traveling next week and just succeeded in negotiating Mrs. TallTexan up to a $25/day gaming allowance. Should be more than ample. We set the daily limit at an amount that we could lose in one spin of the roulette wheel and not feel bad.

The worst part about Mustachians gambling is that we're wealthier than most other folks, so--in theory--it should take having even more at risk to have the same fun when compared with consumahs. I have no idea what it would take to condition myself to be losing $100 with one spin of the Roulette wheel.

simonsez

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2018, 07:16:09 AM »
I have no idea what it would take to condition myself to be losing $100 with one spin of the Roulette wheel.
Me either but just reading about this type of gambling makes me anxious!

BlueHouse

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2018, 08:20:43 AM »
I LOVE gambling. It's a thrill.  It's the risk.  It's the exhilaration.  It's fun and it can be fun to learn about the rules and probabilities and also the legislation in different communities about games of chance and how to use those for advantage. 

That said, I almost never gamble.  I'm terrified of becoming an addict because I can feel the rush whether I'm winning or losing.  When I do gamble, it's always when I'm on vacation, as part of a bigger event, and I treat it as a night of entertainment, set a small limit, and expect to lose all of that limit, so I just try to make it last as long as I can for that evening.  I've had a few times where I won a few hundred dollars in about 10 minutes, and I almost felt ripped off because I had to stop so I could walk out a winner, but then I didn't get to play for the rest of the night. 

ETA:  I forgot to add:  I am well known at work and among my friends for wanting to bet on ANYTHING and EVERYTHING.  The kicker is that I always ONLY bet a nickel.  I will not bet anything other than that.  There's something about that nickel that is humiliating to lose and exhilarating to win. 
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 08:22:37 AM by BlueHouse »

Schaefer Light

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2018, 11:50:20 AM »
No.  I'm too much of a control freak.  I don't like to participate in activities where I have limited control over the outcome.

Parton

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #95 on: October 31, 2018, 03:37:42 PM »
Gambling is definitely not for me, I have always been frightened by casinos and slot machines, but to be honest, lately there too many cryptocasino have appeared and I want to know what it is.

talltexan

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Re: Do you like to gamble?
« Reply #96 on: November 01, 2018, 08:40:52 AM »
I've shared BlueHouse's nickel strategy with a couple of people, and the response is very favorable.