Author Topic: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches  (Read 6076 times)

hoping2retire35

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Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« on: September 22, 2016, 01:06:22 PM »
Are their any states were "stop and frisk" or warrant-less searches in the public domain like sidewalks and in your car on the road is illegal. I cannot find a one, even California doesn't which is a little surprising. Are their any states which have something similar?

I was at a football game, away from the stadium, last weekend and witnessed a cop walk up to two young men carrying a cooler and ask for their IDs. No reason, they were quiet, seemed sober, well dressed, etc. I have never been arrested or really bothered by police, other than a license check maybe during a 4th weekend over a year ago. I may have yelled/spoke loudly something to the effect of "Is this necessary?!" but it was loud with traffic and he just handed back my license and I wanted to get home.

Just been thinking about this incidents and getting more mad. Just wondering if any state has tried it and how it worked with enforcement, crime rates, etc.

dividendman

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2016, 03:22:35 PM »
Um... I'm no legal expert, and not an American... but doesn't this violate the 4th amendment?

Quote
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

So, even if they have no law prohibiting it, it is prohibited unless the police have a probable cause to search.

But then again, I'm not on the supreme court :)

Orvell

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2016, 03:27:10 PM »
Not a legal expert at all, but yeah my understanding from HS civics is that police need probable cause, that your person counts as yours and search-and-seizure laws apply to it, and people should definitely exert their rights to request to see a warrant from police if one isn't shown.
In the case of the cooler, I would guess the cops wanted to see if open alcohol was being transported (illegal I believe in most states) or if they were under age (also illegal). So, probable cause.
Or maybe they were looking for someone in particular?
I'm not sure.

In answer to your question though, state-by-state shouldn't matter.

matchewed

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2016, 04:34:12 PM »
Asking to see ID is not a stop and frisk nor is it a search.

human

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2016, 04:47:32 PM »
After the police have stopped you on the street walking or on the road driving, if they feel they have probable cause they can search you or your car without your consent. They do not need a warrant.

If they specifically ask to search you or your vehicle you have a right to say I do not consent. They may then tell you I'm searching anyway. If you feel it was an illegal search you can take it up with the Courts. If the search turns something up that leads to an arrest you can try to have the evidence thrown out as the result of an illegal search.

The key is to ask them "Are you asking my permission or telling me?" Then state "I do not consent". Don't start getting mad and in their face, that accomplishes nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVx0NpYbtus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9gXQbKCE-M

As for ID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV_ANiGk4Sc Refusing to provide ID in some cases is within your rights, but not practical. Is that right? I don't think so but you have to decide if it's worth fighting.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 05:47:08 PM by human »

JLee

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2016, 06:20:28 PM »
After the police have stopped you on the street walking or on the road driving, if they feel they have probable cause they can search you or your car without your consent. They do not need a warrant.

If they specifically ask to search you or your vehicle you have a right to say I do not consent. They may then tell you I'm searching anyway. If you feel it was an illegal search you can take it up with the Courts. If the search turns something up that leads to an arrest you can try to have the evidence thrown out as the result of an illegal search.

The key is to ask them "Are you asking my permission or telling me?" Then state "I do not consent". Don't start getting mad and in their face, that accomplishes nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVx0NpYbtus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9gXQbKCE-M

As for ID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV_ANiGk4Sc Refusing to provide ID in some cases is within your rights, but not practical. Is that right? I don't think so but you have to decide if it's worth fighting.

NH requires a search warrant for a non-consensual vehicle search. Other states may as well; I'm not familiar with all of them.

gimp

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2016, 11:16:31 PM »
Cops generally can't pull someone over because of being suspicious - there has to be a real reason. Similarly, they can't search the car unless there are real reasons (like, for example, the driver giving permission...)

But they can frisk you.

I don't think it should be legal, I'm not sure why it's legal. It's blatantly against the fourth amendment. Suspicion cannot be enough because "reasonable suspicion" is basically defined by what a cop thinks is reasonable - and if most cops think it's reasonable to frisk whoever they damn well please, well, oops.

human

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2016, 04:17:37 AM »
Thanks JLee that's good to know. They can seize the car and bring it in while waiting for a warrant but that's better than a warrantless search.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2016, 06:02:04 AM »
Not a legal expert at all, but yeah my understanding from HS civics is that police need probable cause, that your person counts as yours and search-and-seizure laws apply to it, and people should definitely exert their rights to request to see a warrant from police if one isn't shown.
In the case of the cooler, I would guess the cops wanted to see if open alcohol was being transported (illegal I believe in most states) or if they were under age (also illegal). So, probable cause.
Or maybe they were looking for someone in particular?
I'm not sure.

In answer to your question though, state-by-state shouldn't matter.
Unfortunately no, as spartana rightly pointed out they only need "probable suspension" which can be just about anything the cop believes. yes they can just pull you over but as my situation demonstrates they can have a universal stop for everyone.

I really wasn't trying to get too much into the details or merits of the situation just wanting to know, in a general sense, if any state has successfully implemented stop or at least a curbing of any of these practices. Thanks JLee, I'll check out NH laws.

deadlymonkey

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2016, 07:13:57 AM »
NYC had stop and frisk but it was ruled unconstitutional.  Police can still get away with it by coming up with some reasonable suspicion on a case by case basis but it is hard to do that with mass stop and frisk like they had in NYC, and what trump wants to put back into place.  Walking while black or walking while muslim is not probable cause. 

I like the police and will always call them if I need help, but with the decline of community policing, many are being forced in to metrics performance measures...how many tickets....how many stops...how many arrests.  Due to that, it is usually (not a lawyer!) in your best interests to not "help" the police by consenting to a search, offer your ID or do anything more than the minimum legal requirements for compliance.

JLee

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 03:03:15 PM »
Thanks JLee that's good to know. They can seize the car and bring it in while waiting for a warrant but that's better than a warrantless search.
Technically they can search it without a warrant, at least in Cali, if the vehicle is seized as part of an "inventory" search. Here's the basic reasons they can do a warrantless search:

Police in California need a valid search warrant to search your vehicle—UNLESS one of the following five (5) circumstances applies:

You have given your consent to a search of your vehicle.

The police have “probable cause” to believe the car contains contraband or evidence of a crime;2

The police are lawfully arresting an occupant of the car—and either the arrestee is within reaching distance of the interior of the car, or it is reasonable to believe the car contains evidence about the crime for which s/he is being arrested;

The police are temporarily detaining an occupant of the car (as part of a Terry "stop-and-frisk"), and reasonably believe that s/he may be dangerous and have access to weapons stored in the car;

The car has been lawfully impounded by law enforcement (as may happen if you commit Vehicle Code 14601 driving on a suspended license), and they are conducting an “inventory search.".

Also boats, even liveaboards in marinas, can be subject to warrantless search just... "because". That's changed some but they have much less protections then your private home or vehicle.

If it's being towed/impounded (i.e. driver arrested for DUI), then yes an inventory is done.  Otherwise, cars are treated the same as houses in NH (for the purposes of searches/warrants).

human

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2016, 07:35:40 PM »
Thanks for that explanation, pretty interesting.

Just curious, if you stopped a citizen on the street and they asked "what level are we right now, talking, suspicion or probable cause?" Would you answer? Would a cop in some or many states have to answer such a question?

Shane

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2016, 08:44:07 PM »
Busted: The Citizens' Guide to Surviving Police Encounters is a pretty well made video that answers some of the questions posed in this thread. It's 45 minutes long but definitely worth watching, as it gives good advice about how to interact with the police, what to say, what not to say, when to open your car window, part way, all the way, when to open the door of your house to police officers, when not to, etc...

nobodyspecial

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2016, 08:36:47 AM »
The key is to ask them "Are you asking my permission or telling me?" Then state "I do not consent".
Is that the point at which the officer then shoots you in the face and says "I thought he was going for a weapon?"

I thought the modern procedure when approached by a police officer in the US was to quickly get on the floor with your hands above your head and scream and make enough noise that you have witnesses - preferably with cameras.



Papa Mustache

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2016, 08:52:25 AM »
Quite seriously - teaching your driving age teenagers how to interact with police is probably a very wise thing. The USA is a crazy place these days.

dividendman

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2016, 09:57:45 AM »
I think the best thing to do is say nothing. Police aren't stopping you to help you.

Shane

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2016, 01:13:21 PM »
I think the best thing to do is say nothing. Police aren't stopping you to help you.

In my last job several coworkers were retired police officers. Interestingly, every one of them told me, separately, something along the lines of, "If I were ever stopped by the police, especially if I thought there was a chance I might have done something wrong, I wouldn't answer any questions. None. I wouldn't even tell them my name, until I had been given access to a defense attorney."

When pressed on the issue of why it wouldn't be okay to simply tell police your name if they asked, one of the former officers told me, "Police are not your friends. You do not owe them any casual conversation. Police officers are allowed to lie to you, and they are trained in ways of extracting information from you. Anything you say to them can and will be used against you. There is no upside to talking with the police, only downside..."

nobodyspecial

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2016, 01:49:56 PM »
I think the best thing to do is say nothing. Police aren't stopping you to help you.
"If I were ever stopped by the police, especially if I thought there was a chance I might have done something wrong, I wouldn't answer any questions. None. I wouldn't even tell them my name, until I had been given access to a defense attorney."
And then you discover refusing to give your name is an arrestable offence.
And now you are locked in a cell with a bunch of unpleasant fellows for 12hours while they process you.
And they take a DNA sample which they keep for ever
And you have an arrest record which shows up on future job searches.
Then they release you without charge.

And they wonder why they have to have tanks to do neighborhood policing.
 

 

JLee

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2016, 01:51:35 PM »
I think the best thing to do is say nothing. Police aren't stopping you to help you.
"If I were ever stopped by the police, especially if I thought there was a chance I might have done something wrong, I wouldn't answer any questions. None. I wouldn't even tell them my name, until I had been given access to a defense attorney."
And then you discover refusing to give your name is an arrestable offence.
And now you are locked in a cell with a bunch of unpleasant fellows for 12hours while they process you.
And they take a DNA sample which they keep for ever
And you have an arrest record which shows up on future job searches.
Then they release you without charge.

And they wonder why they have to have tanks to do neighborhood policing.

Your hyperbole is a little bit out of hand.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2016, 01:58:55 PM »
Pop quiz - in which states is it an arrestable offence to refuse to give your name?
In which of these states does the law vary county by county or city by city?
Which do you have to produce government ID?
In which ones is the law different if this is suspected terrorism?

You can't phone a friend or go 50:50 and somebody is pointing a gun at you

human

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2016, 02:18:10 PM »
Thanks dmanc for the breakdown. I'm actually Canadian, to be honest I'm not even sure what our laws are like here but I assume they are similar. I find the us context fascinating because of all these youtube videos of people getting stopped in vehicles and spouting all these nonesense freeman on the land arguments.

I'm pretty left leaning and am a little uncomfortable with militarization of police and cctv everywher but rolling down a window to hand a cop a driver's licence shouldn't be such a big deal.

The cpb videos are real entertaining as many us citizens feel they don't have to idenify themselves or prove their identity when re entering the us or driving close to the border, real weird and wtf?

human

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2016, 02:23:59 PM »
Sorry I should add that while I'm ok with the occasional stop I'm not ok with stop and frisk and pulling over everyone in disadvantaged neighbourhoods.

JLee

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2016, 02:38:29 PM »
Pop quiz - in which states is it an arrestable offence to refuse to give your name?
In which of these states does the law vary county by county or city by city?
Which do you have to produce government ID?
In which ones is the law different if this is suspected terrorism?

You can't phone a friend or go 50:50 and somebody is pointing a gun at you

In which state(s) are or were you a certified law enforcement officer?

Cathy

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2016, 02:44:04 PM »
Thanks dmanc for the breakdown. I'm actually Canadian, to be honest I'm not even sure what our laws are like here but I assume they are similar ...

Somewhat similar, yes, but there are various differences.

If you actually get arrested in Canada, things are much different from the United States, and seemingly much less favourable for the accused. In Canada, "an individual (presumed innocent) may be detained and isolated for questioning by the police for at least five or six hours without reasonable recourse to a lawyer, during which time the officers can brush aside assertions of the right to silence or demands to be returned to his or her cell, in an endurance contest in which the police interrogators, taking turns with one another, hold all the important legal cards". R. v. Sinclair, 2010 SCC 35 at ¶ 98 (Binnie J, dissenting). In Sinclair at ¶ 38, the majority of the Supreme Court of Canada considered and expressly declined to follow the well-known US Miranda case.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 02:47:53 PM by Cathy »

human

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2016, 02:52:40 PM »
The guy spoke with a lawyer twice. It's a good thing many criminals are stupid and unable to keep their mouths shut. In the us can you have a lawyer present through the entire interrogation?

I assume in the us it isn't always practical for a lawyer to be present, takes time to find one and then bring them in etc. Does the interview just end in the us when they say they want a lawyer present? Don't they just get one on the phone?

JLee

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2016, 03:01:41 PM »
The guy spoke with a lawyer twice. It's a good thing many criminals are stupid and unable to keep their mouths shut. In the us can you have a lawyer present through the entire interrogation?

I assume in the us it isn't always practical for a lawyer to be present, takes time to find one and then bring them in etc. Does the interview just end in the us when they say they want a lawyer present? Don't they just get one on the phone?

Generally, once there's a request for an attorney, any information gained directly from further questioning would be inadmissible. If someone requested an attorney and then started talking on their own, anything they said is usable.

human

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2016, 04:06:27 PM »
Ok a little different than the Sinclair case. The key is do not talk.

JLee

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2016, 04:10:36 PM »
Ok a little different than the Sinclair case. The key is do not talk.

I had no idea Canada was that different than the US - very interesting.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2016, 08:20:47 PM »
The guy spoke with a lawyer twice. It's a good thing many criminals are stupid and unable to keep their mouths shut. In the us can you have a lawyer present through the entire interrogation?

I assume in the us it isn't always practical for a lawyer to be present, takes time to find one and then bring them in etc. Does the interview just end in the us when they say they want a lawyer present? Don't they just get one on the phone?

Generally, once there's a request for an attorney, any information gained directly from further questioning would be inadmissible. If someone requested an attorney and then started talking on their own, anything they said is usable.

Basically correct.  And plus one to the "There are no upsides to talking to police."  That does not mean argue or evade or disrespect; but the only reason they are talking to you is to build a case against you.

gimp

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2016, 12:06:46 AM »
Caveat: unless you're asking for help, or are a witness and are reasonably sure nobody's going to think you did it. (Though I suppose as a witness you have nothing to lose by not cooperating. If they're that sure they need information, they could probably force you to testify, since the fifth doesn't apply unless you might incriminate yourself. Sort of.)

Of course, if you are "just talking," ascertain that you may leave, and start to leave, suddenly it's suspicious you're leaving... catch 22.

Drifterrider

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2016, 04:33:30 AM »
Asking to see ID is not a stop and frisk nor is it a search.

Asking is permitted.  Insisting is not (per the constitution).

In a free society, the people are free to refuse :)  Some jurisdictions have passed laws requiring one to present identification when asked but the Supremes have usually overruled those actions.

The pendulum swings.

Scandium

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2016, 09:27:07 AM »
Are their any states were "stop and frisk" or warrant-less searches in the public domain like sidewalks and in your car on the road is illegal. I cannot find a one, even California doesn't which is a little surprising. Are their any states which have something similar?

I was at a football game, away from the stadium, last weekend and witnessed a cop walk up to two young men carrying a cooler and ask for their IDs. No reason, they were quiet, seemed sober, well dressed, etc.

Just FYI; stop and frisk laws have not bearing on the interaction you saw. An officer can ask for whatever he/she wants (ID, search your car or house, question you). You might not have to comply though. That's where the laws come in. The two men you saw could possibly have refused to comply and the officer would have had to let them go, or not. Depending on the laws and the situation.

For more prepare to spend a few hours here:
http://lawcomic.net/guide/?page_id=5

Blindsquirrel

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2016, 05:48:05 PM »
 They can and do perform illegal searches every single day. Take a casual read of the papers or following link for an education. The link is run by the Cato think tank and very interesting mess of articles. http://www.policemisconduct.net/

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2016, 05:32:28 PM »
NH requires a search warrant for a non-consensual vehicle search. Other states may as well; I'm not familiar with all of them.
[/quote]

What do you define as a search.  All Law enforcement agencies inventory a car that is being impounded (for whatever reason).  Anything found is a legal search as the search was done for administrative purposes.  Same as anything found during a Coast Guard Safety Search of a boat.

bacchi

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2016, 06:06:35 PM »

Just FYI; stop and frisk laws have not bearing on the interaction you saw. An officer can ask for whatever he/she wants (ID, search your car or house, question you). You might not have to comply though. That's where the laws come in. The two men you saw could possibly have refused to comply and the officer would have had to let them go, or not. Depending on the laws and the situation.

You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

JLee

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2016, 09:58:23 AM »
What do you define as a search.  All Law enforcement agencies inventory a car that is being impounded (for whatever reason).  Anything found is a legal search as the search was done for administrative purposes.  Same as anything found during a Coast Guard Safety Search of a boat.

An inventory is done for the purposes of documenting the contents of an impounded vehicle.  A search is when you're not impounding the vehicle and you're looking for something.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2016, 08:20:25 PM »
What do you define as a search.  All Law enforcement agencies inventory a car that is being impounded (for whatever reason).  Anything found is a legal search as the search was done for administrative purposes.  Same as anything found during a Coast Guard Safety Search of a boat.

An inventory is done for the purposes of documenting the contents of an impounded vehicle.  A search is when you're not impounding the vehicle and you're looking for something.

I love the law. "I didn't search your vehicle sir; I inventoried it." :D

JLee

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2016, 08:23:10 PM »
What do you define as a search.  All Law enforcement agencies inventory a car that is being impounded (for whatever reason).  Anything found is a legal search as the search was done for administrative purposes.  Same as anything found during a Coast Guard Safety Search of a boat.

An inventory is done for the purposes of documenting the contents of an impounded vehicle.  A search is when you're not impounding the vehicle and you're looking for something.

I love the law. "I didn't search your vehicle sir; I inventoried it." :D

Surely you understand the differing circumstances, and the reasons which you would want to note anything of value in a vehicle when it's taken from someone without their consent?

Metric Mouse

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2016, 08:27:34 PM »
What do you define as a search.  All Law enforcement agencies inventory a car that is being impounded (for whatever reason).  Anything found is a legal search as the search was done for administrative purposes.  Same as anything found during a Coast Guard Safety Search of a boat.

An inventory is done for the purposes of documenting the contents of an impounded vehicle.  A search is when you're not impounding the vehicle and you're looking for something.

I love the law. "I didn't search your vehicle sir; I inventoried it." :D

Surely you understand the differing circumstances, and the reasons which you would want to note anything of value in a vehicle when it's taken from someone without their consent?

Absolutely. And I generally support law enforcement being thorough and safety conscious during all interactions with the public.  I just find the finer points of some contentious issues humorous.

JLee

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2016, 08:33:02 PM »
What do you define as a search.  All Law enforcement agencies inventory a car that is being impounded (for whatever reason).  Anything found is a legal search as the search was done for administrative purposes.  Same as anything found during a Coast Guard Safety Search of a boat.

An inventory is done for the purposes of documenting the contents of an impounded vehicle.  A search is when you're not impounding the vehicle and you're looking for something.

I love the law. "I didn't search your vehicle sir; I inventoried it." :D

Surely you understand the differing circumstances, and the reasons which you would want to note anything of value in a vehicle when it's taken from someone without their consent?

Absolutely. And I generally support law enforcement being thorough and safety conscious during all interactions with the public.  I just find the finer points of some contentious issues humorous.

FWIW I hated doing inventories. They take a long time and don't generally happen on cars you want to search. :P

Metric Mouse

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2016, 08:35:28 PM »
What do you define as a search.  All Law enforcement agencies inventory a car that is being impounded (for whatever reason).  Anything found is a legal search as the search was done for administrative purposes.  Same as anything found during a Coast Guard Safety Search of a boat.

An inventory is done for the purposes of documenting the contents of an impounded vehicle.  A search is when you're not impounding the vehicle and you're looking for something.

I love the law. "I didn't search your vehicle sir; I inventoried it." :D

Surely you understand the differing circumstances, and the reasons which you would want to note anything of value in a vehicle when it's taken from someone without their consent?

Absolutely. And I generally support law enforcement being thorough and safety conscious during all interactions with the public.  I just find the finer points of some contentious issues humorous.

FWIW I hated doing inventories. They take a long time and don't generally happen on cars you want to search. :P

Yeesh. I can about imagine.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2016, 08:19:11 AM »
Canada doesn't allow warrantless stop and search, unless you are in an area where the police "suspect drugs are being used" where they can search you for drugs but anything else they find is evidence.

They don't have to publish what area they "suspect drugs are being used" so it could apply to entire cities




daverobev

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2016, 11:43:43 AM »
Canada doesn't allow warrantless stop and search, unless you are in an area where the police "suspect drugs are being used" where they can search you for drugs but anything else they find is evidence.

They don't have to publish what area they "suspect drugs are being used" so it could apply to entire cities

Pretty sure there's someone using drugs at any given time in any given city.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Do any States outlaw "stop and frisk" or warrantless searches
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2016, 07:07:27 PM »
Canada doesn't allow warrantless stop and search, unless you are in an area where the police "suspect drugs are being used" where they can search you for drugs but anything else they find is evidence.

They don't have to publish what area they "suspect drugs are being used" so it could apply to entire cities

Pretty sure there's someone using drugs at any given time in any given city.

Don't tell the police. They'll begin to suspect it.