Daylight Savings Time

[DadJokes]

Why is this still a thing?

[nereo]

Last Week Tonight asked the same thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br0NW9ufUUw

[DadJokes]

That is perfect. Thank you.

[nereo]

"It's all Kaiser Wilhelm's fault..."

[GuitarStv]

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/dst-sucks-balls/

[hdatontodo]

So people like me can remind you that it is Daylight Saving Time with one s

[ketchup]

To make combing through server logs and audit trails more difficult twice a year.

[nereo]

To make combing through server logs and audit trails more difficult twice a year.

I was going to say: To make any time-series analysis much more challenging.  For example, examining the daily movement patterns of an organism.

[Glenstache]

I would reply with something intelligent, but my circadian rhythms are so out of whack all I can do is nurse coffee and curse.

[Leisured]

Many years ago, in Australia, daylight saving was proposed, but one objection was that curtains would fade faster because of more daylight. Is this really true?

[Davnasty]

Many years ago, in Australia, daylight saving was proposed, but one objection was that curtains would fade faster because of more daylight. Is this really true?

Yes, but it would also make solar panels more productive. Always pros and cons.

[Boofinator]

Many years ago, in Australia, daylight saving was proposed, but one objection was that curtains would fade faster because of more daylight. Is this really true?

Yes, but it would also make solar panels more productive. Always pros and cons.

Maybe I'm missing the joke? There is no additional sunlight, the hours of the day simply shift to make better use of that sunlight. If anything, curtains should fade less quickly, as you wouldn't be sleeping through the morning sunlight hours. It is possible that solar panels might be slightly more productive (as morning energy generation would be more likely used), however I am skeptical there is a measurable effect.

[lizzzi]

Damn and blast Kaiser Bill!

[Davnasty]

All Wilhelm did was steal the idea from the British and enact it a few weeks earlier. This guy was the real champion of "summer time"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Willett

[Papa bear]

It’s soooooo much better than regular time.  Keep DST and ditch the other!   


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[Boofinator]

It’s soooooo much better than regular time.  Keep DST and ditch the other!   


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To repeat a post from another thread, this is no different than getting up an hour earlier all year long. No offense*, but it seems to me to be self-delusional.

*I used to be into self-delusion myself. Probably one of the weirder things I did in this respect was set all my clocks a few minutes fast so that I wouldn't be late for work. I habituated to the later time within a couple of weeks, so I set the clocks ahead even more. Eventually, somehow, I matured and now get up at the appropriate time without the need for self-delusion.

[Davnasty]

It’s soooooo much better than regular time.  Keep DST and ditch the other!   


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To repeat a post from another thread, this is no different than getting up an hour earlier all year long. No offense*, but it seems to me to be self-delusional.

*I used to be into self-delusion myself. Probably one of the weirder things I did in this respect was set all my clocks a few minutes fast so that I wouldn't be late for work. I habituated to the later time within a couple of weeks, so I set the clocks ahead even more. Eventually, somehow, I matured and now get up at the appropriate time without the need for self-delusion.

The key is getting everyone to make the same decision at the same time. What you're saying is certainly logical, but if we do away with the time change most businesses will continue to operate their normal hours. Whatever the government decides those hours are relative to the rotation of the earth matters.

[Boofinator]

It’s soooooo much better than regular time.  Keep DST and ditch the other!   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To repeat a post from another thread, this is no different than getting up an hour earlier all year long. No offense*, but it seems to me to be self-delusional.

*I used to be into self-delusion myself. Probably one of the weirder things I did in this respect was set all my clocks a few minutes fast so that I wouldn't be late for work. I habituated to the later time within a couple of weeks, so I set the clocks ahead even more. Eventually, somehow, I matured and now get up at the appropriate time without the need for self-delusion.

The key is getting everyone to make the same decision at the same time. What you're saying is certainly logical, but if we do away with the time change most businesses will continue to operate their normal hours. Whatever the government decides those hours are relative to the rotation of the earth matters.

I don't disagree with your logic, but the logical next step would be to ask why are business hours the time that they are? In my mind, it is the will of the people to sleep in later (with respect to their localized daylight hours), so why should government be fucking with that? If the people really want the change (as evidenced by voters in those states), why don't those people just work earlier? (Just as an FYI, in all the jobs I've worked (other than as a bag boy), my starting time was at the latest 6:30 am. I'm generally home by early afternoon. I don't believe mine is a unique case, but comes from a desire to have more afternoon daylight. Other people prefer sleeping through the morning hours, and that's cool too.)

[MDfive21]

the problem is not whether we go to work at 8am, 9am or that the sun rises at 6am or 7am.  the problem is the switching back and forth twice a year, which clusterfucks a lot of people, obviously including me.  i don't care much whether we have more sun in the morning or evening.  just stick with one or the other.

[nereo]

It seems like half the people here are taking this thread very seriously, and the other half are not taking it seriously at all...

[Davnasty]

It seems like half the people here are taking this thread very seriously, and the other half are not taking it seriously at all...

I'm taking it seriously half the time

[Boofinator]

It seems like half the people here are taking this thread very seriously, and the other half are not taking it seriously at all...

I think it is being discussed fairly seriously by a lot of people (even if in a lighthearted matter). Let me try the lighthearted approach: It's nice to see a plethora of Mustachians, the ones who brave the heat, cold, and other personal discomforts to develop badassity, transmogrify into complainypants when it comes to getting up an hour earlier or later a couple times per year. Mustachian kryptonite exists! (A further irony is that this is coming from the same group that generally loves traveling, where you're hopping multiple time zones at a time for pleasure.)

[Prairie Stash]

It seems like half the people here are taking this thread very seriously, and the other half are not taking it seriously at all...

the third half are confused

[Johnez]

It's the one thing everyone everywhere can agree on. Surprised we've not had a presidential campaign around this issue.

[Boofinator]

It's the one thing everyone everywhere can agree on. Surprised we've not had a presidential campaign around this issue.

Except that everyone everywhere does not agree on it. Keep in mind it was hugely popular when instituted, and the only people in modern times who've experienced it any other way (and therefore can weigh the alternatives with anything other than grass-is-greener thoughts) are those who've lived in Arizona or Hawaii (at least in the U.S.). I've experienced both (having lived in the former state), and I think DST makes more sense in some places (cold winters, disparate daylight times around the solstices) and less sense in others (hot summers and little change in daylight).

[Captain FIRE]

It’s soooooo much better than regular time.  Keep DST and ditch the other!   

+1

[Davnasty]

It's the one thing everyone everywhere can agree on. Surprised we've not had a presidential campaign around this issue.

Except that everyone everywhere does not agree on it. Keep in mind it was hugely popular when instituted, and the only people in modern times who've experienced it any other way (and therefore can weigh the alternatives with anything other than grass-is-greener thoughts) are those who've lived in Arizona or Hawaii (at least in the U.S.). I've experienced both (having lived in the former state), and I think DST makes more sense in some places (cold winters, disparate daylight times around the solstices) and less sense in others (hot summers and little change in daylight).

Which time? 1918, 1942, 1966, 1973?

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6393707

I think you'd be surprised how contested these changes were at the time. The movie industry hated it, drive-in theaters couldn't play movies until 9PM during the longest summer days. Dairy farmers hated it, they already got up well before sunrise to milk but with the time change they had to get up an hour earlier so that they could get their milk onto the trains in time. More than a few people opposed it because it wasn't "God's time" or it was "unnatural". Odd, since standard time wasn't even law in the US until the 1918 Standard Time Act which included a DST time change... although that was removed in 1919.

Like a lot of issues, public opinion was largely split between rural and urban populations.

I think the reality is that we haven't been able to agree to any one method of keeping time since the railroad system and other forms of fast travel brought on the need for standardized time. Before that most clocks weren't synchronized very well, people were just a lot more flexible.

[Boofinator]

It's the one thing everyone everywhere can agree on. Surprised we've not had a presidential campaign around this issue.

Except that everyone everywhere does not agree on it. Keep in mind it was hugely popular when instituted, and the only people in modern times who've experienced it any other way (and therefore can weigh the alternatives with anything other than grass-is-greener thoughts) are those who've lived in Arizona or Hawaii (at least in the U.S.). I've experienced both (having lived in the former state), and I think DST makes more sense in some places (cold winters, disparate daylight times around the solstices) and less sense in others (hot summers and little change in daylight).

Which time? 1918, 1942, 1966, 1973?

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6393707

I think you'd be surprised how contested these changes were at the time. The movie industry hated it, drive-in theaters couldn't play movies until 9PM during the longest summer days. Dairy farmers hated it, they already got up well before sunrise to milk but with the time change they had to get up an hour earlier so that they could get their milk onto the trains in time. More than a few people opposed it because it wasn't "God's time" or it was "unnatural". Odd, since standard time wasn't even law in the US until the 1918 Standard Time Act which included a DST time change... although that was removed in 1919.

Like a lot of issues, public opinion was largely split between rural and urban populations.

I think the reality is that we haven't been able to agree to any one method of keeping time since the railroad system and other forms of fast travel brought on the need for standardized time. Before that most clocks weren't synchronized very well, people were just a lot more flexible.

I agree, it wasn't popular with everyone and I should have rephrased.

One comment on the article (I had hoped NPR would do better): Ben Franklin's satiric article to a French paper had almost nothing to do with daylight saving as we use the term today. It was more along the lines of encouraging people to wake with the sun (but with more pizzazz). https://www.fi.edu/benjamin-franklin/daylight-savings-time

[ysette9]

I think if there was a preponderance of evidence that a time change did us all good then it would be easy to get on the train of “suck it up, you wimp”. But there basically is no benefit and plenty of downsides such as increased car accidents.

It is a bit annoying as a adult. For people with kid the time change can be hell.

I’m with some of the other posters. I couldn’t care one fig about which way we have it; just make up your mind and stop changing! It’s not like living life in sync with nature is this horrible thing that we have to avoid with all cost.

[Telecaster]

But there is some benefit--for me anyway I realize not everyone agrees--that is, in the summer I give up an hour of daylight in the morning when I don't want it, and gain an hour of sunlight in the evening when I do want it.   It is a nice lifestyle benefit. 

I never found the clock switch to be that big of a deal.  As part of normal life I sometimes have to get up extra early to get to appointments or catch a plane or whatnot.   Doesn't seem to make much difference in my day to day life.   

[Philociraptor]

But there is some benefit--for me anyway I realize not everyone agrees--that is, in the summer I give up an hour of daylight in the morning when I don't want it, and gain an hour of sunlight in the evening when I do want it.   It is a nice lifestyle benefit. 

I never found the clock switch to be that big of a deal.  As part of normal life I sometimes have to get up extra early to get to appointments or catch a plane or whatnot.   Doesn't seem to make much difference in my day to day life.

I'm on the other side of this. I go to work early (start driving around 6 am) and would love to see some sun during my commute. Since I work so early, I need to be in bed by 8:30 or 9, and DST makes it so that for a few months the sun is still up or barely down during that time. It's awful.

[Boofinator]

I think if there was a preponderance of evidence that a time change did us all good then it would be easy to get on the train of “suck it up, you wimp”. But there basically is no benefit and plenty of downsides such as increased car accidents.

It is a bit annoying as a adult. For people with kid the time change can be hell.

I’m with some of the other posters. I couldn’t care one fig about which way we have it; just make up your mind and stop changing! It’s not like living life in sync with nature is this horrible thing that we have to avoid with all cost.

DST is "better" (at least in one way) in that it mimics our natural propensity to awake at the same time relative to the sunrise (DST more closely resembles this than standard time). I hesitate to say DST is good, because the one-hour change is abrupt and upsets schedules. As another poster mentioned, there is probably a way that current technology can allow for a more gradual change.

[GuitarStv]

I think if there was a preponderance of evidence that a time change did us all good then it would be easy to get on the train of “suck it up, you wimp”. But there basically is no benefit and plenty of downsides such as increased car accidents.

It is a bit annoying as a adult. For people with kid the time change can be hell.

I’m with some of the other posters. I couldn’t care one fig about which way we have it; just make up your mind and stop changing! It’s not like living life in sync with nature is this horrible thing that we have to avoid with all cost.

DST is "better" (at least in one way) in that it mimics our natural propensity to awake at the same time relative to the sunrise (DST more closely resembles this than standard time). I hesitate to say DST is good, because the one-hour change is abrupt and upsets schedules. As another poster mentioned, there is probably a way that current technology can allow for a more gradual change.

If we're going to change clocks at all, let's do it by a minute a day so that there's a while to ease into it.  Heh.  You think it's hard to remember setting your clock twice a year?

[Norioch]

I think DST is stupid and we should eliminate it entirely. I'd be fine with businesses and government services just shifting all scheduled times one hour earlier in the accurate timezone.

[nereo]

Let's just give up time zones entirely.  Everyone works on GMT. Sunrise might occur for you at 6am or 9pm. Makes about as much sense as saying "the sun rises in NYC at 6:15am and in Eidenborough at 5:47am, yet Eidenborough is 6 hours ahead of NYC..."
Screw that.

There's a reason why the military and pilots and NASA all just use GMT.

[Travis]

It seems like half the people here are taking this thread very seriously, and the other half are not taking it seriously at all...

I'm taking it seriously half the time

And in six months you'll "fall back" to the other opinion?


I don't care which one we use. I just want consistency.  I travel the world as part of my job and if I'm going to be anywhere for an extended period of time I have to set reminders that America will change their clocks and nobody else will.  I'm currently in Arizona with the same problem.  My higher headquarters was only an hour away last week. Now they're back to a two hour difference.  Meetings suck, and they suck more when you're not quite sure when they're supposed to be.  Or the internal meeting you had scheduled before or after now has to be shifted.

[HPstache]

Get on DST and stay there in my opinion.